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'Chess' Story and Characters | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to the BSB Podcast, where pawns dream big, queens steal the spotlight, and every move has a melody.
• 0:06
  This episode we're talking about the Broadway revival of Chess the Musical, a show that turns strategy into song, tactics into drama, and a checkmate into a final chorus.
• 0:15
  Take your seat, the board is set.
• 0:17
  But before we dive in, like, follow, and subscribe to us, BSB Insider, on all social media platforms @bsb.insider Spoiler warning, we will be exploring the story and characters of
• 0:27
  Chess.
• 0:28
  So if you haven't seen this musical yet, feel free to pause this video and return once upon taking the king.
• 0:33
  If you're still here, let's get started.
• 0:36
  RJ, I feel like this is the show...
• 0:40
  that we weren't gonna see and yet we saw, how did it come to be that we chose chess again?
• 0:47
  I mean the same reason that literally anyone is going to see it.
• 0:52
  Lea Michelle.
• 0:54
  Pretty much.
• 0:55
  Okay, so then before we dive into this revival of the show, did you know about chess prior to walking into the theater to see Lea Michele give a glee worthy of performance?
• 1:08
  I mean, I've seen the title of it under song names before, but I couldn't tell you even what those songs are now due to, you know, being at competitions, musical theater
• 1:21
  competitions, vocal competitions.
• 1:24
  So I knew a musical called Chess existed, but outside of that, nothing.
• 1:32
  So I also listeners did not know much about chess.
• 1:36
  However, I will have just slight bragging rights for a moment that I knew more about chess than RJ did as we sat down in theater and I said, this is about chess.
• 1:47
  And he goes, I think it's just a love love triangle.
• 1:50
  And I said, I think it's also about a game of chess.
• 1:53
  And he's like, I don't know.
• 1:54
  And I was like, I'm pretty sure it's challengers of chess.
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  And I was right.
• 1:57
  And so I just, I'm going to, unfortunately, I just have to have my bragging rights for a moment.
• 2:01
  Pat me in the back.
• 2:02
  uh But truthfully, I can understand what you're saying.
• 2:07
  When you're singing these songs perhaps in uh musical auditions and stuff like that, and you see this on sheet music and stuff while you're in school, it doesn't really tell you
• 2:16
  much about it other than the fact that the name of the show is Chess.
• 2:19
  Correct.
• 2:20
  So, truthfully, this story is about a game of chess, and I think I'm saying that word way too much, set during the Cold War times.
• 2:30
  And I think that while it is about the game, the sport, depending on what you want to call it, truthfully, it's about the dynamics between the Russians and America and the struggle
• 2:43
  that's kind of happening between the characters that we're kind of seeing.
• 2:45
  um Were you prepared for so much war?
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  Because I don't think I was prepared for so much war until we saw the the curtain as we're coming in
• 2:56
  Yeah, I mean, I think in the back of my mind I knew that there had to be another component.
• 3:03
  I generally knew, upon very little research ahead of time, that it did have to do with war, which made sense to me because chess, as we come to find out...
• 3:18
  is just, it's tactics, right?
• 3:20
  It's all tactical, and so playing chess and kind of making it parallel to the games that were politically played at that time, it makes sense.
• 3:36
  It definitely does.
• 3:38
  I get where it's coming from because it is.
• 3:41
  It's all, I mean, one of my favorite things to talk about in therapy is that everything is like a game of chess.
• 3:46
  When we're talking to people, when we're interacting with people, when we're trying to figure out what our next move is, it's all about figuring out how to move your pawn, how
• 3:55
  to take the queen, how to take the king.
• 3:57
  There's all these different steps.
• 3:59
  And in fact, sometimes in therapy, I use a game of chess.
• 4:02
  have a very old school Harry Potter.
• 4:05
  chessboard in my office and we'll play it and I'll talk with people about it and so to me it makes perfect sense to use something like a chessboard or like the game of chess to
• 4:15
  move the pieces of like to explain governmental moving pieces in in the Cold War it was like such a to me that was such a cool concept because I wasn't fully prepared for it but
• 4:27
  it made absolute sense
• 4:29
  with this show as well.
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  This is an older show.
• 4:33
  And so it kind of makes sense too that this premiered in 1986 from two of the members of ABBA as well.
• 4:40
  ah So it does have a story that is very rich in like classic musical feel.
• 4:47
  Would you say that that's kind of what you felt about the story?
• 4:49
  Like it felt very much like not quite golden age, but like.
• 4:55
  the era prior to the era we're in now of Broadway shows.
• 4:58
  Does that make sense?
• 5:00
  Yes, I would say it's definitely unique in its identity, but...
• 5:07
  It feels like of its time, it was like trying to be the Hamilton of its time, right?
• 5:13
  Like we have some history, we have some power ballads, but also like the pulse is pretty constant and it still feels modern.
• 5:25
  but you still have these very, some very traditional musical theater aspects, which I imagine at the time felt like super cutting edge.
• 5:37
  sure.
• 5:38
  So to understand the story then, I think we need to start with our narrator, the arbitrator.
• 5:44
  Because this is not, it's interesting because it's kind of like liberation in a way that we just talked about, uh where the pieces, like the story is told almost through the
• 5:57
  narrator narrating a story of what's going on.
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  uh Who is the arbiter?
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  And he's telling the story of the love triangle between Freddie, Florence and Anatoly.
• 6:11
  With this one, I know we talked about it with liberation, it kind of made sense.
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  Does the narration style of the story fit what the concept of chess?
• 6:23
  I would say yes.
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  I'm just because I'm not sure how we would get through it otherwise.
• 6:30
  You don't think this could have been like a straight musical show.
• 6:33
  Like I'm thinking like a death becomes where there isn't a narrator and you're just having characters do the story.
• 6:39
  It feels like there's maybe a little bit too much jumping.
• 6:43
  And if you don't have someone explaining to you that...
• 6:49
  like who the characters are, I'm not sure it would have felt as important.
• 6:56
  um Because like how do you introduce yourself as a CIA agent without someone saying that you're a CIA agent?
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  I'm not sure.
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  Because so much of this is meant to be secretive, right?
• 7:10
  So it would then feel bizarre for them to just come out and say who they are, but then for us to feel like they should be hush hush.
• 7:20
  That does make sense.
• 7:21
  feel again, too, a lot of the story is told through, I guess in the game of chess, when you're playing with people, there is somebody calling out the moves.
• 7:29
  There's like a sportscaster, you know what I mean?
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  There's somebody who is in tennis.
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  We watched a lot of tennis for some reason in New York as well.
• 7:37
  And there's somebody calling out the shots and the moves and the jumps and the swings and all of those pieces are like, yes, you can know what they are, but to have somebody kind
• 7:47
  of direct it to you makes it easier to.
• 7:49
  get into the story.
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  And that really is seems to be the arbiters role in this.
• 7:56
  The people's person to the story of chess.
• 7:59
  And arguably he brings a level of humor to the show that nobody else has.
• 8:09
  Everything else is relatively dark and cold and miserable.
• 8:15
  And then he'll just throw some random modern, like, today type jokes that make you sometimes
• 8:30
  question yourself.
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  um But most of the time just I think to kind of break up that power ballad after power ballad.
• 8:40
  um Love.
• 8:42
  of power ballads
• 8:44
  Yeah.
• 8:45
  um I think what's interesting about it too, and I do want to, you know, note that there was a new book for this written, or at least there was some form of rewriting of the
• 8:58
  original story by Danny Strong.
• 9:02
  And it feels like most of that probably went towards his lines.
• 9:07
  Like there's a point in the story where
• 9:12
  he points out the fact that Freddie's last name is really close to Trump.
• 9:17
  And it's like a very topical, everybody in the audience laughed.
• 9:21
  Everybody like felt a connection to that.
• 9:27
  And like he's poking fun of that.
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  And like, so it was really interesting because I was like, okay, there's the modernness of it.
• 9:31
  But the story that is happening between Freddie, Florence and Anatoly is feels very old.
• 9:36
  You know what I mean?
• 9:37
  Like there is that dichotomy kind of happening of like, here's the old story.
• 9:41
  And then we're kind of pulling ourselves out of it to kind of laugh at it.
• 9:43
  You know, we're kind of laughing at the ridiculousness of it.
• 9:45
  We're laughing at some of the things that feel maybe uncomfortable, that maybe don't fit in the world that we have today.
• 9:52
  know, so it's interesting that he is really humorous throughout the show, where there isn't a lot of humor in the show, besides maybe like the CIA agent.
• 10:00
  True.
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  Yeah, I forgot about him for a minute.
• 10:05
  But he's also one of those ones that he is kind of the funny guy, you So with the story within the story, we have Freddy, Grandmaster, maybe a little bit off kilter, who is in a
• 10:21
  relationship with Florence, who is also really good at chess, a strategist.
• 10:27
  And then there's Anatoly, who's the third part of this triangle, who's the Russian Grandmaster.
• 10:33
  And...
• 10:33
  There's definitely some tension between him and Lea Michele's character Florence.
• 10:37
  We've seen love triangles in every single show.
• 10:43
  Is there something about this one that feels unique to chess, or does it feel like it's the same tired story that we've seen over and over and over again?
• 10:53
  Well, with this one, I don't think there's particularly a front runner.
• 10:57
  Like, I don't know that I was Team Freddy or Anatoly.
• 11:01
  ah You know, one guy is clearly needs some help regarding his mental health and he's not really willing to do the work.
• 11:13
  uh
• 11:14
  or at least that's how it's presented in the beginning.
• 11:16
  And then Anatoly, you know, we learn of his family and wife, and he just like up and left for a girl.
• 11:24
  Neither of those characters seem like great guys to me.
• 11:28
  uh So, I don't know.
• 11:33
  It's interesting because I feel like they're all very morally gray.
• 11:37
  And maybe even boarding on not even morally gray, but leaning towards not great people.
• 11:43
  I'm going to, for a second here, I'm going to take Florence, for example, when she gets fed up with Freddie and she takes his medication and leaves causing him to spiral.
• 11:53
  You have Freddie who's just, he's a dick in everything that he says.
• 11:57
  He's mean, he's cruel, he's rude because he's cocky and he's the best.
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  You have Anatoly who just...
• 12:04
  Like, duty's not always important.
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  He's kind of just all over the place.
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  He's kind of...
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  He's putting people's lives in danger.
• 12:14
  Like, they're all just like, they're not great people.
• 12:16
  There's not actually anybody in this show that, like, at the end of the day, I was like, you're actually probably a good person.
• 12:23
  which is hard.
• 12:25
  It's hard sometimes to connect with characters like that.
• 12:27
  Yeah, which is so ironic because like none of us are perfect, right?
• 12:32
  We all have our flaws, especially I think when it comes to relationships.
• 12:36
  um But we are.
• 12:41
  very living very different lives in regards to you know Anatoly feels
• 12:49
  kind of broken in regards to his connections with Russia Freddie thinks that everyone's out to get him and you know, he's only looking out for number one and then yeah, Florence
• 13:02
  is seemingly had a troubled past and really doesn't know what she wants and so she's just kind of playing the game literally as it comes.
• 13:16
  So.
• 13:17
  Yeah, I think that's actually why...
• 13:21
  this show was caused internal turmoil for me because I was like, I feel no connection to wanting anyone to come out of this.
• 13:33
  Yeah, no, I feel like I agree.
• 13:37
  While this was one of my top shows, and I think that what drew me to this show so much was the talent and not the story.
• 13:43
  The story itself, there is a, like I said, there's a healthy dose of comedy, which I do want to give a shout out to our understudy, Frederick Rodriguez, who was phenomenal as the
• 13:57
  arbiter.
• 13:58
  But.
• 14:00
  There was a healthy dose of comedy, it was just, at end of it, you're not leaving feeling happy, per se.
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  You're left feeling like everything is dismal.
• 14:09
  And even though the world wasn't falling apart anymore, know?
• 14:12
  There wasn't, Florence gets her father back.
• 14:17
  But everybody had sacrificed something, but everybody also was selfish.
• 14:24
  There was a lot of selfishness in the show.
• 14:25
  It was all self-motivation.
• 14:27
  even and this is gonna feel blasphemous, I'm sorry, Hannah Cruz's character was also motivated by selfish tendencies.
• 14:34
  She didn't want to, that sounds mean, she doesn't wanna die.
• 14:38
  But like, it wasn't like she was seeking him for love, she was seeking him because she didn't want her life or her kid's life to be sacrificed because he was being selfish.
• 14:48
  And so it reminds me kind of of shows like...
• 14:52
  Like friends, where everyone's a little selfish and you're just like, why am I rooting for you?
• 14:56
  Which is gonna alienate a lot of people, I think.
• 15:01
  But you know what I mean?
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  Like, why are we rooting for it?
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  Like, who are we supposed to root for in chess?
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  Like, who is actually supposed to be the winner?
• 15:08
  Nobody wins.
• 15:09
  And maybe that's the answer.
• 15:11
  Right.
• 15:12
  I mean, because at the end of the day, even when they're doing a countdown to...
• 15:17
  you know, nuclear missiles being shot off.
• 15:21
  It just so happened that it didn't happen and it had nothing to actually really do with the game of chess that was going down or the deals that were being made.
• 15:33
  And so you kind of do just, I guess end of day, like no matter what you do, it may not change the outcome of what's happening.
• 15:44
  And perhaps that is the message, the moral of the story.
• 15:50
  Do you think, though, with where the world's kind of standing today, that this is a timely tale that needed to be retold again?
• 15:58
  In many ways, yes.
• 16:00
  um
• 16:02
  Yeah, there's many, unfortunately, many crossovers that I think we could tie to our current, not even just political, but just like the way of the world when we talk about
• 16:20
  narcissism and always looking out for number one, of course, like to protect ourselves, but.
• 16:29
  then when we look at that on a grander scale, when we look at humanity, can we actually even be successful as a human race if we aren't looking out for more than just ourselves?
• 16:41
  sure.
• 16:42
  No, I totally agree with that.
• 16:44
  Like, this was a story of three people in two countries tearing themselves apart just to win what is essentially a game.
• 16:53
  And then we can all just say that the life is a game here.
• 16:55
  We're all trying to make it out alive.
• 16:56
  But like, the moral of story is like, we can do this together.
• 16:59
  And chess was trying to be like, yeah, but this is what happens when you don't.
• 17:03
  Like, this is what happens when most people choose the selfish side of it.
• 17:06
  And so it was, again, really hard to connect to some of these characters.
• 17:11
  But is there somebody's performance that you felt commanded the stage more than others, even though maybe we didn't connect with their narrative storyline?
• 17:18
  I mean, main three are all just absurdly talented, which of course...
• 17:24
  um
• 17:27
  is insane but I do want to give a special shout out to uh Sean McLaughlin who was an understudy for Anatoly because I know that you don't get a lot of opportunity to rehearse
• 17:43
  in the roles that you're understudying and I would have never known which of course yes it is their job they are professionals but
• 17:53
  He left it all on the floor, like everybody else.
• 17:58
  You would never have thought that he wasn't the key member for that role.
• 18:02
  He did such a good job.
• 18:04
  correct
• 18:06
  And just to set the scene for everybody as well, we went to the show during the snowstorm, because Broadway hadn't canceled yet.
• 18:14
  And that's a different podcast for a different conversation.
• 18:16
  But they hadn't canceled the show yet.
• 18:17
  So we went to the show, and we were down quite a few actors.
• 18:22
  The show was not full.
• 18:23
  I did find out from somebody who had seen it prior to them, those seats on the sides are all, they're all standing stock still on those seats, and they're cramped on there.
• 18:32
  And we did not have that on ours.
• 18:34
  And so it was basically a ghost uh crew running chess.
• 18:39
  and Sean just killed it as Anatoly.
• 18:43
  Like, of the three, and this is not me being blasphemous against Aaron Tveit Lea Michele he was the one I liked the most because of his acting, his grovelly voice, singing voice.
• 18:56
  I mean, his Anatoly was just, that was kind of the scene stealer for me.
• 19:00
  Especially him and Hannah Cruz's scenes together for some reason gave me chills.
• 19:04
  Yes, um, I mean, gosh, I just I really love all of them.
• 19:09
  Most of them.
• 19:12
  I mean, we'd be remiss to not just say that, of course, Lea Michele is crushing it.
• 19:17
  That is why she's drawing the hordes to go see this.
• 19:22
  And same thing with Aaron.
• 19:23
  I think this the range for this production fits very well in his kind of uh voice.
• 19:32
  kind of like the golden spot in his voice.
• 19:34
  uh And like you mentioned, Hannah Cruz.
• 19:39
  uh Shout out, we saw Hannah during her Suffs days and now she's right next door in this role, which was very different, but good God, she was right up there with rest of them.
• 19:55
  There's one song in particular, we'll talk more about the songs in the next episode, obviously, but there's one scene and song between Lea Michele and Hannah Cruz and
• 20:03
  listeners.
• 20:04
  I am not kidding you, and it is probably one of the best duets I've ever seen live.
• 20:10
  They were just equally as talented on stage there.
• 20:14
  I mean, in so much so that I even turned to you, RJ, and I don't remember if it during intermission or if it was after the show, but I made the bold claim that Lea Michele is
• 20:23
  going to win.
• 20:24
  best actress at the Tonys this year because she gave such a good performance in this role.
• 20:30
  And that's not to doubt her because obviously we know that she's a good actress.
• 20:34
  But I think that does speak to the acting that is on stage with these characters.
• 20:38
  With the acting though, did the chemistry feel...
• 20:45
  up to par in this love triangle.
• 20:47
  We've seen a lot of love triangles.
• 20:50
  Every show loves them.
• 20:52
  Did this one sell the chemistry between them?
• 20:55
  I don't think we got a lot of time to build chemistry.
• 20:58
  We kind of just like jump in and you're kind of expected to know that there's chemistry between Freddie and Florence.
• 21:06
  But from a team dynamic, like from a professional standpoint, even though that you know that they are together, we see a little bit more between Florence and Anatoly because
• 21:18
  that's where most of the plot.
• 21:21
  covers the show.
• 21:22
  But again, it still felt like a very, it almost felt contractual.
• 21:29
  yeah, okay.
• 21:30
  But again, we're not, there wasn't a lot of show of emotion on stage.
• 21:40
  That was like lovey, like it was very intense and it was very, it was either sadness or anger.
• 21:47
  Like there wasn't like, just because of course, again, we're talking about a show about the Cold War.
• 21:53
  um It wasn't like super lovey dovey.
• 21:56
  It was like, he hurt me.
• 21:59
  or we can't be together, you know, just like the woe is me, quite a few times over, pretty much from everybody's perspective.
• 22:08
  In fact, I will take it step further and even say that the best chemistry I think that we got was when they were doing curtain bows.
• 22:14
  Like they were taking their, you know, their bows and Lea Michele got so excited for Sean, the understudy, and was like clapping for him and then also reached out and like gave him
• 22:24
  like a hug.
• 22:25
  There was more chemistry in that moment at some times than there was actually, you're right.
• 22:30
  It was very cold for a Cold War show.
• 22:33
  Which arguably, like, that's the point, right?
• 22:35
  Like, also, for a woman of her stature to be even in the space that she was in, and then to be seen kind of as, like, the tough coach, um supporter, lover.
• 22:51
  She was softer, I would say, with Anatoly.
• 22:54
  Like, you felt softer, and you...
• 22:58
  She obviously delivered very well in regards to...
• 23:02
  how we're supposed to perceive them together.
• 23:06
  Freddie, I just, I mean, he just, he's all over the place.
• 23:11
  I didn't feel, aside from like the one line where he says, I love you, which wasn't even to her face until the end.
• 23:19
  um
• 23:22
  It wasn't, we weren't given a lot to work with there.
• 23:25
  And you know, I wonder if part of this is, and we'll talk more about this in episode two, so please come back and listen to that.
• 23:30
  But I do wonder if part of that was sacrificed for the fact that this is more of a concert than it is a musical.
• 23:37
  You know what mean?
• 23:39
  Yes, very interesting stage, very cool.
• 23:42
  And obviously I had no idea what to expect, but I'm curious.
• 23:52
  I'm curious, like, if that was the original staging or if it was fully acted out.
• 23:59
  Yeah.
• 24:01
  back in the day.
• 24:03
  Guess we're gonna have to some research.
• 24:05
  gonna have to do some recon on that.
• 24:08
  And so with that, we are running out of time.
• 24:10
  So stay tuned for part two of our chess discussion.
• 24:12
  Thank you again for joining us here in our box seats.
• 24:15
  Until next curtain call.