Latest / One Voice Many Conversations / Crushing Strongholds #039-Special Guest Doug Ell- An atheist who discovers God in Science.

Transcript

Crushing Strongholds #039-Special Guest Doug Ell- An atheist who discovers God in Science. · One Voice Many Conversations

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, everyone.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome back to another great episode of Crushing Strongholds.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_04: This is a podcast where we turn pain into power, trauma into triumph, and a place where we get to expose the lies of the enemy.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_04: And how do we do that exactly?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_04: We do that by talking about the truth, the love of Jesus Christ, and sharing his word.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: And today we get to go even a little bit deeper, and I'm super, super excited because we actually get to talk about the science end of who and what God is all about.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: I have an amazing guest.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: I've been excited all week to talk to this gentleman.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I hope you guys are just going to be just as excited as I am to get to know this gentleman.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: His name is Doug L, and he is going to be talking to us about how he found God through science.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: And get this, y'all.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_04: He used to be an atheist.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_04: An atheist.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's amazing that he has enough boldness within himself to be able to come on and tell people that he knows that he found God through science.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's absolutely amazing.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I want to bring um to Crushing Strongholds my guest, Doug L.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: So, Doug, welcome in today.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, McKeith.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really thrilled to be your guest here.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh very nice and very special.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much for having me.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, thank you for being here.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I know that you are an author.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you've written four books.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, one I can't wait to read.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: I've been looking at it and um researching, doing some research on it called Rise Above.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: And also the um Counting to To God is also another book that I was kind of like, oh my gosh, now I gotta read two books.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna keep me busy over the next month or so.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um really great stuff um that you've been writing about and sharing your experience with um how you discovered God through science.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I love that Rise Above isn't isn't is a novel.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: I was kind of reading about it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to I don't want to give away all of all that it's about because I want you to be able to share a little bit about it and um how you came about this story, but um sounds like a very interesting read.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: And um I love that you took it and put it into a stormy story format so where people could kind of understand it and kind of get a grasp of it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of times, even for myself, I like to tell people like kind of things, how how things go like in a strategic manner and in order, and I forget like sometimes people want to hear it in a story form.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I love that you wrote Rise Above in that that direction.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: Now, counting to God, is that um similar to Rise Above, or is it completely opposite or different?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's uh both completely different and the same.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, they're both based on the incredible scientific facts, proven facts that showed that our universe was both created and designed, and that life was both created and designed.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but Counting to God was my first book, came out in 2014, and it's a very technical book that a number of scientists helped me on it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's got footnotes, it's detailed.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I lectured in MIT, you can uh on it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can watch the YouTube video if you put in Doug L, MIT.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: The um, but my minister said, well, you know, it's too complicated, there's no pictures in this book and whatever.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wrote a simpler book um uh called Proofs of God.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I decided to write a novel.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I had so much fun with this novel, Mickey, because I felt, you know, I got to make the characters just took on a life of their own.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I never wrote a novel before.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a co-author who helped me uh you know make it a very, very enjoyable story.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's about a very rich person who um uh decid has a spirit gets terminal cancer, has a spiritual experience, and decides to give his money to God.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then his worldly educated science techie children uh immediately descend on him to try to talk him out of it.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the setting that I use to uh put in the science that's in counting to God.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's overwhelming, and I hope people uh will enjoy it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm totally looking forward to reading it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: It sounds like something I would really enjoy to read.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: And um with with going into writing these these books that you've done, you had to have experienced something of your own.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what this podcast is about.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's about um crushing some strongholds that we've had to face in our walk and in our life that kind of help us shift gears or build us up or um have us take a different avenue as to what God is doing in our life.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_04: And like I mentioned before, we started recording is that I feel like God has given us all a gift and a purpose in life.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: And even for myself, I know that um I had to face some of my own strongholds in my life before, you know, I could get to the next level of where God was taking me.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I know sometimes God takes us through these trials and these tribulations.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: So, what was it for you specifically?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: Could you share us, share with us your testimony um how you converted from atheism to finding God in all of the science that you researched?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I like to share my story because I think uh it's different from most people, but I think it's relevant to most people in that there's a lot of confusion between people who think science is contrary to God.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I used to think that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I was in high school, I read in my science book about some experiment that some people claim show showed life could have arisen by chance.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's a 1950s experiment and uh called the Miller-Ure experiment, and they put some chemicals together and zapped them with electricity.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they got some compounds called amino acids, which are also in life.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: They also got things like you know, uh formaldehyde and things that are toxic to life.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: But anyhow, they claim, therefore, since they had gotten some useful stuff that this showed how life could have arisen by chance.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's been both discredited in numerous magazines and whatever.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's uh it's still, you know, this belief you can get life by chance um is still out there.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: But anyhow, I read this when I was in high school, and I thought, well, then I've been conned.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: If life can arise by chance, then this God stuff is nonsense.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I fell for the lie.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: I fell for the lie that, you know, the smart money's on atheism, that smart people don't believe in God.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and it made me kind of arrogant and aloof, but at the same time, a joy went out of my life because I didn't have God in my life anymore.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, so I was and still am a very nerdy guy, very good in science and math, not so sharp on other things, but you know, we all we all try to get by.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I went to MIT, double majored in math and physics, graduated early, studied theoretical math, and um went to law school.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's another story.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: But anyhow, I considered myself an atheist until my early 30s, and my wife decided we ought to get our son baptized.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: We hadn't been going to church, uh, but I didn't want that fight.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, yes, dear, you know, you want to sprinkle a little holy water on that on that on the child, go ahead and have some fun, you know, knock yourself out.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not getting into a big fight over this.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we went to church and I um I felt something and I realized uh that I was missing something, and um I think that was a gift that God gave me with right then.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: That was a really important gift.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I told myself, well, Doug, you know, you're an MIT guy, you think like to think you're smart.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can't believe in this God stuff if if it doesn't agree with science.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so I started studying it.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I taught myself molecular biology and you know the origin of the universe, cosmology stuff, and um I studied it for a long time, and it just and that's why I feel now I have to share because the true science definitely points to uh that the universe was created.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's really no there's debate about the way, but everybody now agrees that our universe was created.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's also um our universe I think is clearly designed.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we can get into that.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's these constants of physics that are all said exactly right.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's this is now accepted science.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: There is, contrary to what I read in that high school textbook, there is no quote scientific explanation for how life could have arisen by chance.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll talk more about that if you want.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, the technology with within us.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's it's clear that life is designed, and it's just one fact on that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and everybody tends to overlook this because it's so well accepted, but all life runs on digital code, it's called DNA.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's a code, it's like computers run on digital code, language works on digital code, you know, symbols mean something.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and uh life runs on digital code.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just just, you know, again, that is is just where did the code come from?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And how come, as Bill Gates would say, Bill Gates is quoted as saying, that digital code is like compute DNA is like computer code, only far, far more complex than anything we have ever made.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did we have the most complex code in the universe within us?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, this nonsense that we're taught that the smart people don't believe in in God or that science, which you know uh is contrary to God, uh, it deprives a lot of people of joy.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: It takes away joy.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: It did for me, I was an atheist for 15 or more years.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so this is now my ministry, uh, Mickey, is just to try to tell people the truth because it's out there and they kind of know it, but they don't really appreciate it, maybe.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think I I think it's important that, like you said, but you know, how how did it just arrive?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_04: How did DNA just arrive?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: How did we just arrive?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_04: How did, you know, like that that that simple question people say, what came first, the chicken or the egg?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_04: Well, whether it came what whichever came first, it still had to be created.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_04: Whether the chicken or the egg popped out first, it you know, and um same with who we are, you know, in in in life and creation with like you said, our DNA.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's important that we not think so much about um, like I said, there's no way that someone just like the big boom just happened, and here we all are.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like bam, here we are, you know.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: And um it's interesting to me that people have doubted God because my whole entire life, I never once thought there was never a God.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Now I've done might have doubted what God might be doing in my life, but I never never put the doubt of existence of Him in my life.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that there's a difference in the way that we're raised raised between, you know, different generation to generation and going forward.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_04: And um even like I mentioned before, that sometimes, you know, you go to different denominations, you go to different churches, you you're around different people, and people have different, you know, views and and beliefs and stuff.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: I've been around people that didn't go to church at all, but still believed in a God.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then I went to church with people that, you know, firmly believed in a God, and you know, they worshiped God, they honored God, and they they were obedient to God.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: And there's there's such a diverse with people in even even in that itself, that knowing that there's a God, there's something, there's gotta be something there, you know.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why, you know, I was talking about the difference between being agnostic and atheist, is like, I don't know how people, for one, not believe that there is some kind of higher power.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of people that are atheists, they believe there is something.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: So if you as an atheist didn't believe in God, you know, did you did you really just think we just like arrived?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like the mothership landed, or I mean, you know, what was your actual thoughts?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: Where did you think before you finally realized there has to be a God?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_04: What did you think there was a higher power at all before that during the time you were?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought, you know, I just fell for this nonsense that um it uh you don't need God to explain anything.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when I realized, when I realized how complicated the code is within our bodies, and that you can't get it by chance, you know, and again, I have uh training in mathematics.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, all of a sudden atheism just seems so stupid, so unbelievably stupid.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when you look at, you know, so uh we have four different letters of DNA, and our we have these very fancy machines in us that uh read the letters three, uh read three letters at a time and print out uh and print out parts called proteins.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the way they do it, they have a selection of these uh chemical compounds, uh 20, and so they snap these 20 chemical compounds, 20 amino acids, like child children's blocks together, fold it just right, and out of the 3D printer, well, where did the 3D printer come back from if it wasn't designed, right?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, come these parts that are then assembled and create all life.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you get these parts built just right out of code by accident?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, it's just incredibly stupid, and people are so blind to it.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh and I think that takes a lot of joy out of people's lives because people just they worship other things, you know.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Our world, I mean, people worship uh whether you've got money or you're famous.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And let me tell you, I've worked with some very rich people, some very famous people.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was the uh the head lawyer for 30 years for the benefit plans covering the NFL players.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I met owners and uh and players, celebrities, and um you know, let me tell you, money and fame don't make you happy.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: I just say that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it's uh you know what's really important in life, and you miss out on a life on a lot.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you are conned like I was, I feel I was intellectually bullied into thinking there is no God.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, and that's what I want to help people understand.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let yourself be intellectually bullied, and all of my books are written to help people understand that true science, the true facts within us, including DNA, require a designer.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think that there's a there's with atheism that we we want to talk about where we came from, but we don't want to talk about the the opposite of that, and that is the enemy, because the enemy is actually the the culprit behind the thinking of any of this anyway, of being an atheist.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: And um, even like money, like you said, there's no happiness in money.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's why it's called the root of all evil.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's so much, you know, you you could use it for good, you can take money.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and if you are really um intuitive to what God wants you to do financially, he's gonna bless you abundantly, but he wants you to to take that money and use it wisely.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_04: Now, if we're using it just just for glamour and glitz and fame and fortune, um, a bigger house, uh, you know, 500 cars that you don't need in the driveway just because you want one every day of the week, um, that kind of stuff is it's for the wrong purpose.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: And so I agree with that, you know, wholeheartedly when you talk about, you know, money being something that actually can suck the happiness out of your life because it it you end up wanting to divulge more into what I want, what I want, what I want instead of what you really need.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: And we lose sight of relationship with people when when things of material become more important or things of um success.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: Some people, you know, thrive on just being successful.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I I know that I've I've met so many people that success is so important.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: And and it is important because we do have to live, we all have to make money, we all have to pay bills, we all have to do that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but if you if you're setting your whole entire um family or your relationships and everything on the back burner for your success, in the end you're gonna find that you're gonna be alone.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: I find some many people say, I spent all of my time doing this, and I was one of them.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: I worked for many, many, many years, and um um I worked in retail, I was a regional manager, I opened up stores all over, um, and I loved what I did, but it would take me away from my family, and my family would say, Mom, you're never home, you're never home, never home, you know, and they would complain.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I'd be like, Well, you want that, you want that Xbox or not?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you know, and I would kind of, you know, use that as an example, like, hey, if you want that Xbox, then I gotta go to work.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_04: And one day my son actually said, Well, have a good day at work, Mom, when I told him that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: But um, as I got older, they said one thing they missed was that I wasn't around.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I wasn't around all the time.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, we took vacations, yes, we did family outings and stuff, but I was, I was, even though I was in the home, I was an absent parent.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: And that's because I thought I had to have the success and the money to make my family happen when all they really wanted was the relationship with me, which made me feel good.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that part made me feel good that they wanted that, but I felt like I deprived them of something that they needed.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: And um I think we miss out on that in the world that we live in because we're so busy.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: We're just so busy.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just even with our phones, you see people nowadays walking around their faces and their phone, they're so distracted by, oh, I'm you know, I gotta see the I gotta see what so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so is doing, and you haven't talked to so-and-so in 10 years.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever picked up the phone and called them?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: I do that with my best friend.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'll text her and be like, hey, I'm thinking about you, and she'll be like, Oh, me too.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then sometimes I'm like, Oh, I'm I'm so stupid.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: I just literally pick up the phone and call her instead of texting.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I go, why do we do that?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Why don't we, you know, we FaceTime each other, and it's so much more personable, and it means so much more to each other that we took the time to want to actually see one another than to just shoot someone a message.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's really easy.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: Anybody can shoot a message, you know.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_04: It it loses its connection to one another, you know, and Christ is so connected with people, we we kind of separate that sometimes with you know our idols and stuff like that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: But I find it really interesting that I love that you said that when you were an atheist, it took away the joy.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_04: And can you elaborate a little bit more on that?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: What what was different before you became an atheist?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was I was pursuing those things that you were just talking about.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was a very successful attorney and uh great clients and making good money, and uh, but there wasn't any joy in it, you know, and I thought um I had the wrong values, um, you know, um it uh false gods I was worshiping, in effect, money, success, and um there's a Timothy Keller book um uh uh called I think False Gods, and uh I got it on my bookshelf, but I won't get it down here.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's very powerful about how our society creates these things, you know, like uh looks or money or fame, and people uh try to build their lives around them.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's uh it's nonsense.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: So when you pursue that sort of stuff, you can look happy.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, um, and uh and it's phony.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I I I've done a lot of traveling and I go to these places and and um you know, I see a lot of these young people, particularly walking around with glasses of champagne and they're walking around like at the Eiffel Tower.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: You see this a lot.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: They'll actually they they actually have you know the street people there will sell you champagne when you're up.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you get your picture taken drinking champagne in front of the Eiffel Tower, and you see these people, and they're having they're walking around with a glass of champagne like it's something that they're uh wearing, you know.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh they're not really drinking it, and uh and they're smiling, and maybe they look like they're having a good time, but you know, and there's nothing wrong with champagne of the Eiffel Tower, don't get me wrong, but I mean if people just have their values twisted, uh that's not what life's really about.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like that kind of uh sugarcoats the moment because.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: you know, um you miss out on on on it.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that like especially today with AI, how uh and I and I've dabbled with it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not I'm not huge big fan of AI, but I do kind of like how it can be kind of fun.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: I I create pictures and images and you know I do some digital um creation with it.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: And um I've had some fun with it and I've made some really goofy looking pictures of myself and I'm like that is I just look ridiculous, you know, and I have to laugh at that.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: But I think what that does it devalues who we are like it takes away from who we really are because I think if you get so wrapped up in it that you're gonna go, I like that that person better than this person or I look better there than I am here.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: And it takes away your natural um being as to you know who you are as a person.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_04: And um a friend of mine I was talking to her about it and I said you know and I felt bad because I actually was she said how did you make that picture and I said oh I can show let me let me teach you.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I taught her and now she's like sending me 50 pictures all the time and I'm like oh my gosh I I created a monster oh no you know and she's like oh look at this and look at that and I'm like I was like oh my gosh okay put the phone down put the phone down I'm sorry I should have never showed you you know because it just you know she goes and she's like I'm having so much fun and yeah it can be fun as long as you understand that it you don't want to devalue who you are you know you get you know I people need to love who they are who God created them to be and again those are the things that literally distract us from the purpose that God intended for us.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know when he created us he designed us even though the Bible says he knew us before we we were in the womb.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: So it's amazing that when our DNA was created and he shaped us he literally knew every single thing about us he knew what our character was going to be like our personality what color hair eyes all of it was going to be like and we diminish what God does through so many different things.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know AI is one of them you know just beauty vanity is huge um idolism trying to be like somebody else that you're not it's so big in the world today and um just trying to please people is just so it kind of I'm just like oh just be yourself.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_04: I want you to be comfortable and casual and just be who God created you to be because he loves you just the way you are and I share in my podcast a lot of times that um so many people are afraid to even reach out to God because of the mess they're in.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's like God wants you no matter what mess you're in.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: He wants you anyway he already knows you're gonna make a mess he created you.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_04: He knows your story start to finish and you know when I when I tell people this they go oh yeah oh that was kind of dumb I waited like six years to to you know to go and you know have a relationship with God because I thought I had to get cleaned up first you know and I tell them you know if you would had took God along with you it probably you would have got cleaned up probably a lot sooner you know and they're like oh thanks for that I'm like I'm just saying because I did it myself you know I've I walked those you know those same roads that that we all tend to walk down and um it's interesting because I've approached people that are atheists you know and some of them are really mean and they're really they're just like in your face and I'm like you know I don't have a problem with you being an atheist but don't have a problem with me believing in God.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know that's I kind of I have those conversations and people can get really really oh they can get really really uh violent with the thing they can I have a uh a Facebook page uh Doug L author and I put posts on it um and sometimes um I'll spend a little bit of money I don't get anything out back out of it but just to boost the post you you know make you to see to and um and I do that and I am astonished at the negative reactions I get um the hate that comes back and I'm like wow it's what's in these people's lives uh they have they they want to attack me for two reasons basically um and they use the crudest foulest thing that they're permitted to use on Facebook um but uh they uh first of all they say I'm absolutely an idiot and I have no uh uh educationist to believe this well you know okay uh I I am an educated person you whatever um you know and uh and then they say I'm out I'm just out to get money and you know why would you waste my time by making me read your God nonsense and um and the hate that comes out of the and you have to feel sad for people that are um just holding all this kind of hate and anger inside them and they're not going to have any joy in their lives.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and and it it doesn't have to be that way.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean there's no scientific reason for why anything exists.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean if God didn't do it who did I mean that's a huge thing.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: We we know now the universe came into existence.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: We know that things like the speed of gravity and excuse me the strength of gravity the speed of light and all these electrical charge forces and all these things are exactly right for life to exist.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is common this is um commonly accepted science and you know and but they although there there must be an infinite number of universes and we just got lucky this multiverse nonsense there's no there's no science they have all these nonsense beliefs that they hold on to for dear life to preserve their atheism and it's very sad.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think that sometimes people want to maintain atheism because they they want to lack the obedience that that people I think I think people know that when you know there's a higher power and it's definite then you know there's got to be some form of obedience that needs to follow along with that and I think atheism keeps them in a box where they can just do whatever they please.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right they want to do whatever they want they want to hate whoever they want including me for posting that stupid thing on their Facebook page you know I mean they want to be nasty they want to be able to write they want to act like they're cool they want to act like they're important um they don't want to be judged uh they don't they don't um there is going to be a final judgment for all of us and uh the Bible's very clear on that and uh you know and it's they don't want that they don't want to be uh judged yeah that is for sure now I have a question to ask you um do you ever comment back on those comments or just let them fly?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know 99% of my lift fly one of my I wrote back to one who said hey uh thanks for your comment you know um and you can find my bio on the website short story as I graduated early from MIT by the way what's your academic background I didn't get a response it's amazing some people will call you out on on an educational basis because they think you have no sense in your head and um right right yeah and uh which uh yeah I mean right I mean and believe me I so I've attended a number of dinners about science and God at the Harvard faculty club and so I've sat down at these tables with these Harvard professors who are diehard atheists and are so nasty and obnoxious about it.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know and they'll try to be superficially pleasant and um and it's and it's just so sad.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: They they have such a twisted sense how you how any any person of intelligence should be able to easily realize that the science overwhelmingly shows that the universe was created it was designed life was created it was designed and that's what all of my books are about to help that.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I think one huge factor that that people miss being an atheism or atheist excuse me is the love factor because the Bible is so strong on talking about love um you know we can't have um love if we don't have God you know and um like uh first uh first john four seven says first seven eight says uh beloved let us love one another for love is of God and he that knoweth not knoweth not God and like it like you said in the beginning when you started talking about joy part of that is love you know and people can't connect and have um relationships with people because they don't know who God is and God brings that love to the table he helps you to understand one another he helps you to have that forgiving heart that grace that we all need um we're at when we're acting foolish it it doesn't matter what degree or uh what level of degree you are we all could still make mistakes and be foolish.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_04: I have a degree too I had had a gal ask me one time she's like what is your you know what is your educational background you know what is your you know what have you done and I you know I have associates ambassador's degree um in business and I also have one in um in the ministry and I have you know I I have a lot of certificates and I have a lot of education I have a psychology degree and stuff like that but I don't go around you know telling people you know I have a degree I always tell people I got my degree from the word of God because he's the one who created me designed me and he's the one who assigned me and I said you know what I could I could post my certificates up all over my I go I have a whole binder with my certificates in them from the years that I've gone to school and and you know and I could put my little trophies I've got trophies I've got medals I've got things you know the awards that I've won throughout my lifetime and there was a part in my time a time in my life where I wanted to show those things because I wanted to make people think that I I was just this so smart person, you know?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, what am I doing?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not you know I'm not that's not who I am.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: I don't even like to portray that.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I've had people go, you know, you're a little smarter than I thought you were because I don't act smart you know or I don't walk around being a smart alec I call it I go I try not to be a smart alec because my mom used to call me names when I'd be a smart alec you know and and she would say it in you know a a swearing manner so I won't go there but you know and I'd say you know I I didn't want to be that way.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't want to just be a smart aleck all the time because I knew something that somebody else didn't and I believe we all know something that somebody else doesn't.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I believe a lot of people know way more than I know.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_04: And but that doesn't make me like or dislike them less or more you know I like to get to know a person on a personal level and um get to know who they are as a person because that degree yeah it may have taught you something but it doesn't define you.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_04: Jesus Christ does that he did that on the cross you know and I used to seek I used to seek validation you know with with the way I was raised and in and out of foster homes like I mentioned but I used to always want to be validated because I I needed to feel like I mattered and God revealed to me like you mattered Jesus already validated you on the cross it he took it to the cross you are validated.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: You don't need that validation from anyone anymore.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so you know when God started revealing these things in my life you know again why I started this podcast is because I allowed that to have a stronghold over me and um there were times I could let it almost destroy me you know on a mental level and my mindset and take me to a place where I didn't want to be because I didn't feel worthy enough or smart enough or good at or whatever enough you know and God was like that is ridiculous enough you know that's nonsense enough that's what that is you know and and I love that because that's the truth as simple as it is we try to make it complex you know there's so much to science there's so much to the DN DNA there's so much to the chromosome how many you get from your mom how many you get from your dad and it's just like Jesus you know he has the chromosomes from his mom but he doesn't have any from his father when they tested his blood.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: Why is that because of God you know and I'm like oh yeah well explain that in history I mean it's in the history books explain it and so I I think it's interesting how we can um try to pick God apart because we just we just don't want to adhere or abide in in what God says to abide in and if we look at the world that we're living in today um the chaos that we're in the disasters the the birthing pains that we're having that the world is having the way that the world's going the peace treaty the the the um world war three that we know is right around the corner because the Bible says it is people's like oh no there might be a world war three well what does the Bible already say it's coming it's coming it's coming and and the thing is is the Bible was written off from the scrolls and yeah the scrolls were written many many many many you know hundreds thousands of years ago and we want to go God doesn't exist well then why are the prophecies all all fulfilling right in front of our eyes we're living in an era where we actually get to witness these prophecies being fulfilled and it just throws me away you know throws my mind away I mean when people say you know oh there's no God God doesn't exist.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: I think you believe you said it's something well when you said uh you know God is love people don't want to be told they have to love their fellow human beings they want to look down on them at least these Harvard professors do they want to look down on us and uh uh and you know that's that's one of the reasons um so yeah yeah I think that we missed that sad but I mean you you know you have to uh we all have to uh figure out what's important to us and uh but to realize that there is a God that got Jesus did die on the cross for you uh and uh and that's very humbling and then uh you know and it should make us all be grati grateful great gratitude is the mother of all virtues I think uh it's been said you know and if you if you're grateful um then that put starts to put joy back in your heart amen to that I know I I I like to tell people too that you know if you were the last person on earth you Doug the last person on earth Jesus would still go to the cross for you he would still go there and just like if I was the last person on earth any you know if there's only one being left on the earth he would still do it you know because that was the calling that was what he was supposed to do that's you know that's how um you know that's how God had to handle it you know and and and and it's settled it was settled on the cross you know and I tell people you don't have to you don't have to worry God loves you no matter what and and we're gonna make mistakes we're not perfect but we need to know who he is we need to believe in him we need to believe in Jesus and um we need to be saved and and you know like you said when we get to heaven we're all gonna find out one day you know and honestly I'd rather be I'd rather get to heaven or I'd rather die and and and be wrong than to go to heaven and you know have been wrong you know for for not serving God and believing in God you know because I I know for sure I know for a fact God he's been evident in my life um throughout my entire life from the time I was a kid.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: You know even I don't know about you as an atheist if you know if he showed up here and there.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean he probably did in the in the 15 16 years that you were doing them you probably just you know had your blinders on you know that he was there.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have my blinders on big time big time.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah absolutely yeah I think sometimes we get stuck in that box and we're like we just we just have I was stuck you know one focus and that's it and it's usually it's I mean me me too it's not even on anything else that we should be focusing on.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: We get self-indulged sometimes and I think it's important that we we um take our focus and put it where it needs to be you know if we keep our eyes on Jesus again if we do that then we won't be so worried about what other people are doing and what other people are saying and what other people are thinking about even us.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know they say you know someone's opinion of you is not even any of your business and I go yeah you know what you're right I don't need to know you know the only person I you know worry about my their opinion is Jesus you know am I am I abiding in the word am I in the scripture am I in prayer am I am I worshiping God and making sure I don't have my idols you know on the top of the throne you know God needs to be at the top of the throne and it's okay to have things God wants us to have the desires of our heart it's okay to have a nice car a nice house um as long as you know God is at the top of all of that you know and you're thanking him every day for it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not saying go out and don't you know don't make money God says that we're to live in abundance we can live in abundance yeah definitely um but we can't get to heaven based off of our works you know we have to um you know we we get through heaven we don't deserve it no we don't we don't deserve it I love that so um if you were to um tell our listeners today what is like one thing that you could tell them like a huge clump of advice to say you know if they're doubting right now they're sitting in doubt right now whether God exists or not and um they're listening to us talk today what is one bit of advice you would give them that might encourage them to change their mind I when if you're doubting then you're hearing a lot of skepticism about God and I would say be skeptical of what you're hearing.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay put them put the people who are telling you there's no God to the test.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know ask them no uh how did life get started?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why did the universe come into existence?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know I I focus on these science issues because that's my background Mickey but I mean you know the the biblical stuff is probably more powerful to more people um it's um you know what's what's important to you what do you want out of life um and um you know without God there's no meaning in anything without god there's no morality all the great philosophers would if there's no without God is there's no moral standard you could say I like this better than that but it's all man made uh you know and uh so where does good and evil come from uh you know do you think find something's good and something's evil I think everybody does everybody has their own ideas what's good and evil well is there a greater um where does all that concept come from if everything is just you know if we're all just meat machines and you know killing each other for survival where did this concept of good and evil come from I think we all know intuitively we were made for a better life and um you know this world is beautiful it has its problems but we have the promise that there's a better life to come.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: Amen to that that's a good point that you said that because um when we even even in our relationships with our family members and stuff that we're with like um my daughters my my kids and um when we're arguing when you know if we're having an argument or if we're uh if we're just having a great moment we're loving on one another, you know, um what is it what would be the point of any of that you know there we like you said those morals are so important like the love and the hate and and um if we didn't have any God we we wouldn't have any reason to hate anyone you know and we shouldn't hate anyone anyway but it's the it's the love factor again that that comes into play because God wants us to love everyone and love each other and love your neighbor as yourself.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: And it it's kind of interesting that you you said that because I find that when people are in today's age there's so much hate going on that um I think what are you fighting for are you really fighting for your family are you fighting for your loved ones are you fighting for your friends are you fighting for your culture are you fighting for your state are you fighting for your home what is it are you really fighting for you know we should all be fighting in unity together and I know that there's a lot of diversity in the world because of different cultures and all of that but again we should be all fighting in unity not against one another and that just you know it's it's not gonna happen because of the evil because of the the the evil in the world because of the good and the bad it's never gonna happen until you know after you know God comes you know and um then there's gonna be a great big uh you know war with the tribulation so um it's gonna be interesting to see how it all unfolds.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_04: I know that I know that we're getting closer than ever and I do believe that um time is of the essence and it's important and I I love that you're trying to reach out to the younger generation and our pop culture today really um It's amazing because we have some pop culture over here that are just living in revival.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_04: They're they're just bringing people like by the hundredths, you know, to Christ.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then there's the opposite, well that where we have um big groups of people that are just killing one another and hating one another and just tearing people apart.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: And it's so sad to see the the diversity between the two groups and and so I love that your focus is to reach out and get a hold of the this younger generation because we're not gonna we may not be here through the whole thing.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_04: Unless Jesus comes back, we're we're probably gonna be gone, you know.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_04: So uh we need that generation to carry the baton and take it to the end, you know, and take it to their, you know, to their children and their children.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's really important because God blesses all of our children and and our children's children, and we need to instill that in them so it's carried on.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I do believe that that is getting lesser and lesser by the day, and it's kind of sad to say.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I really appreciate what you're doing.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_04: So for all of our listeners today, I'm I'm I'm so excited that um had this opportunity to talk, um, Doug, with you, and I hope that everyone listening has enjoyed this conversation.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I do want to say that um you can be reached at you said counting to God.com, is that correct?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: CountingToGod.com.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's got my book signed, and uh you can reach me.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so yes, thank you.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: So if someone has a question about science, can they reach you there and ask you those questions?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, certainly.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, great.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: I love that because some some people might want to reach out to me and I'll be like, hey, go ask Doug because he's here, he here he studied it all.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: I never majored in science, so um, I could I could probably at least send them in the right direction or tell them where to go to get the information.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm not um um a major in those areas and um not even in mathematics.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um I did take mathematics in college, but I didn't major in it, so um but um also your books are um you have four books and all of them are on that website, right?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: Where they can find all of that information.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then um, is there anything else on your website that you want to share with us that they could find there?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, let me just say I'm again trying to reach out to younger people.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um my my newest book is The God Proofs, which is a graphic novel.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the people who did the artwork on that have created these videos.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have five of them, and I think they're they're really powerful.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hearing from moms that their kids are just loving them.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: So uh go to thegodproofs.com, which I think you can get to from my regular website, but it's separate.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: The name of the book is The God Proofs.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody uh gets a copy, please go to Amazon and give me a good review.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't make any money off the book.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've assigned away all the money, but I just want to reach young young kids.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but I think these videos are powerful.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh show them to um uh your friends, particularly young people in your lives, and that's the at thegodproofs.com.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank thank you very much.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for being here.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so to all of our listeners, um, if you are struggling with um whether God is real or not, and you want to learn more, please, please go check out Counting to God and um follow Doug and check out his um God-proof um book and um his animation.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: I watched a little bit of that about talking about the smartphone.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: That was pretty cool.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: I think my grandkids would get a kick out of that too.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna show them that this afternoon and see what they think.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_04: And um anyhow, um if you're if you're needing prayer or if you're needing um clarification on anything, you can reach out also to crushingstrongholds.com and um get some information there for um power hour talks and discussions or just um any type of confusion.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't know who God is in your life and you want to know who he is, just reach out.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_04: We'll be glad to point you in the right direction.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: I like to hook people up and get people uh connected together.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think we need to be a community, like I was talking about, that unity is so important.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_04: And um, Doug, I want to say thank you so much for being on the show today.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um I've learned a lot in in just our short time.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_04: I was so excited.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we always talk about um the biblical side of things, but we don't always talk about the science side of things.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I I love that you were willing to come on our show and and share that with us, and um also talking about how you were an atheist because um we don't talk about that too much on the show either, but I'm really glad that we were able to bring that conversation to this um podcast today.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: So um I hope everyone has a great and amazing day.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_04: And with that, Doug, do you have anything else you'd like to share or say today?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, thanks again for having me.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed being here.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: Well, for all my listeners, it's been another great episode of Crushing Strongholds.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: I hope you all enjoyed it as much as I have.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: And until next time, y'all take care and God bless.