Latest / WoT Spoilers / Choosing Enemies & A Testing - Towers of Midnight chapter 50 & 51 - EP577

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Choosing Enemies & A Testing - Towers of Midnight chapter 50 & 51 - EP577 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast, self Aggrandizement Engage.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: We have so many people listening and donating to us
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: that we were kind of talking about it before recording,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: because it blows our minds in a way that makes
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: it very hard to keep it in your head. Just
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: how many people have come to the live recordings over
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the years, support us financially, downloaded and listened to two
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: hour rants about one chapter from a Wheel of Time
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: episode over and over and over again. I don't know,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: it's just it's amazing to me. So in that vein,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: we're thanking our patreons to start off.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got some new patreons, some annual patreons, some
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: just generally worth mentioning patreons happening here and now.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: And we won't go through another hour long recitation of
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: all the patreons because that's how long it takes.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Now, I do think we need to do that as
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: part of the final wrap up ten year anniversary. The
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: people who are still there do need one last shout
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: out as we conclude.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: But that is not today.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Today, and actually today we're closer to the nine year anniversary,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: depending on exactly when this drops. Yeah, if you're listening
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: to this, we are probably past the nine years since
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: episode one dropped. I've been doing that for a long
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: long time.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: A lot has changed.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And a lot has changed, very different place in my
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: life for sure.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's wild.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: And yet some of you have supported us through that
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: entire journey. Some of you have just joined us lately.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Some of you joined and left and came back and
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: then joined again, and then and then I came back
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: because it's been that long, that kind exactly along, you know.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: So you know, just a huge shout out to everyone
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: as always, past, present or future, who's who's supported us,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: especially those of you who supported us financially.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and also especially the lives because y'all really make
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: the flavor of the podcast unique and what it is.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: It's not just us, oh yeah, the secret third ingredient,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: the live.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Film before live studio audience every single week, and like
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: it makes as much a difference to us as it
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: does to the TV. You know, it's not just the
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: the laughs, but it's the feedback, it's the corrections, it's
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: the just the personalities of those of you who show up.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Like it makes a big difference in terms of what
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: we end up talking about and what the what the
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: podcast is about. So you know, I think that's if
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: you ever want to influence the content of the podcast.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Showing up live is huge. It makes absolutely a difference.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you disproportionately represent the entire audience, you do. Yeah,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: you know, roughly a thousand people.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I think one to two thousand depending on Yeah.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that many downloads on an episode, So I assume
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: there's about a thousand points at which you know the
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: pod is going out there. And yeah, anyone who's here
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: live gets you represent a lot of people in terms
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: of our emotional feedback.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: What does the audience think? Like you speak for the
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: whole audience that, yeah, is a dangerous question.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's your favorite listener, not answering, that's impleading.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: The fifth, I think is the appropriate response.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, my wife listens occasionally, so you know we're
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: gonna have to go with the never for sure.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nobody in my immediate family listens.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: And when I say occasionally, I meant like a couple
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: of times when I first met her and then she
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: went okay, yeah that's enough.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: But my brilliant editing didn't manage to make her want
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: to listen to you random a wheel of time even
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: more than she already does in real life.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: She's more likely to listen to used to sew than
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: wheel of time. But no, I mean, yeah, I don't know.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: It's like asking who your favorite student is or who
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: your favorite like child is. It's like, you know, who
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: hasn't pissed me off today? Is what I heard once
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: parent say? Like you know it's or even just like
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: oh god, what's my favorite book or what's my favorite movie?
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Like those are impossible questions to answer because it's like
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: what mood am I in? What did I see recently?
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: What's going on politically in the world, Like all of
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: those things are constantly influencing each other to make certain
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: things have influence and importance in my life. And so,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: you know, one of my least favorite questions I think
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: that I ever hear, and even just like not of me,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: but just of like anybody everywhere, is what's your favorite
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. And I understand why that's often a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: framing for questions because it is a way to like
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: start conversation, But my god, the word favorite is just
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: overused in those situations.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, hint for you and every other autistic person
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: in the audience. What people mean is just give me
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: something to talk about. They don't actually care what your
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: objective favorite thing is. That's it's just a way of
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: shorthanding that.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: And the thing I want to talk about is how
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: bad that question is. Okay, yeah, no.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: It's yes, the autism is showing. It's just such a
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: common fucking complaint.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but of course you then right, that's that's obviously
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the answer is when someone asks you, well, who's your
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: favorite blah blah blah, and if they're in the category,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: the answer is you. I've learned that rule.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, very much. So, I mean i'd say I
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: probably am ultimately your favorite listener because I became the
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: co host as.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: A result of listening.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So like that is a good point, Like I win.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I can still put you in the
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: category of listener anymore. Though.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: The thing is, like I was your favorite listener, but like,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: just because I transitioned out of being listener, yes, you've
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: you've now made us awkward and completely distracted. Congratulations. Do
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: you want to seth get to these names that we
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: were going to read?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I want to start with a huge shout
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: out to Kevin Wallbank, who this can't be his first
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: time supporting us, but he's up at the ambulance seat level.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: So wow, thank you so much. Man, that's a huge contribution.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: We cannot tell you how much we appreciate that. That's
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: that's amazing.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Quite the vote of confidence in our value in what
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: we add to the world. Thank you very much, Kevin.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: He likes us. He really likes us.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I think he likes us.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Dude, you rock.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's pretty epic. Next, we would like to
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: thank Heidi, Thank you very much joining the show.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, now this one l l mt l WT.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's a word.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's a word, so probably just an abbreviation.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Also an email address, yeah me, so I'm sure that
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: stands for something, but I don't know what. So thank
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: you whoever you are. Appreciate it. Yes.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Next we would like to thank Nicholas Stephen. Thank you
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: very much.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Two first names. Way to go, Gary Plate.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: One word excellent, Gary Plate.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I was gonna be is that some sort of like
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: a Jerry Can, right, but a Gary Plate?
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, as long AS's not a Jerry Man.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: No, we have enough of those stop it.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: And last, but certainly not least, we would like to
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: thank William Canto. Thank you all so much for joining
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: the Patreon at whatever level, for whatever time. It's all
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: very warm and fuzzy making and we appreciate you so
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: so much.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And a big shout out to the yearly. I guess
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: the Patreon did a thing where it charged folks for
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: a whole year at once.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Patreon subsidizes it, so we get all of the money,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: but the person pays less. It's like a discount thing. Okay, okay,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Patreon's doing magic. Yeah, really appreciate that.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: It.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Definitely.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Tax time was a really nice time for an unusually
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: large amount of money to come through the Patreon. I
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: wasn't mad about that. I really wasn't. Because someone decided
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: we should do our taxes properly.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Uh, did that fuck you this year? A little bit?
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, a little bit.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: A little bit.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Looks like I might be paying my fair share of
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: taxes instead of the mysteriously low amount that I've been
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: paying the last several years. Yeah, so it was a
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: good month for Patreon to surprise us with extra cash.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not super happy about that. Book.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you do the right thing and you get punished
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: for it is always a feeling. Yeah, yeah, thank you
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: to everyone that chose to do annual subscriptions. You made
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Patreon happy, you made us happy.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: It's awesome.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Speaking also of people who listened to us,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: we got a correction literally ten minutes before this recording started.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: So in the last episode, the one that was about
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Avianda going through the columns, I put in this little
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: snippet at the very beginning from Dungeon Crawler Carl where
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I lost the word for holy Grail and we ended
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: up on the concept of a perforated chalice, and it
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: was a whole thing, and we made to make you
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: a joke about calendar and calendar and you were like,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: that was really funny wheel of time humor. Let's put
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: into a wheel of Time episode. So I popped it
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: over there, and then that episode Dungeon Crawler Carl came
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: out and someone who's listening to both of them then
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: sent us a correction being like, did you realize that
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: calendar is the holy Grail? Like for real though, because
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: the holy Grail in Spanish is song greal and our
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: ja named song Grel song Greal because it's the Spanish
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: for Holy Grail. And yeah, I totally forgot that. I
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: knew that. I haven't known that for at least five years.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: I definitely did know that at one point, But thank
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: you Peter Marie for reminding me of that information that
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I completely spaced out on, because no, I totally forgot
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: about that. We stumbled across that correction, that correlation in
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: that episode. I never landed that joke. I did not
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: remember that information whatsoever.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: See in my brain, that's half the reason I made
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: the joke, right, It's because, like, yeah, I was making
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: the joke in my brain, right, because that's that's the
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Holy Grail. That's the joke, because it is the song
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Greaal was named after the Holy Grail. I thought that
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: could go and said, because I thought you knew.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: I did, Yeah, exactly. Also Schrodinger's.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: So that's I certainly in my brain I knew that
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: and was That's why I made the joke. However, of course,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: and if I went back and listened, maybe I forgot
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: and didn't mention it. But either way, we didn't mention
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: it in the moment.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: The subtext was too subject. It went right under my
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: brain to go over my head. I went under my brain.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: So let's over explain the joke, yes, to take all
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: the humor out of it, but also to you know,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: just another reason to say, just another excuse to say
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: our listeners are awesome. They're following us across multiple podcasts
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: and correcting us on lore across multiple podcasts, and that
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: just y'all are my people. You are my people, and
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: it is fantastic that we have the Internet to connect us.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Did you know? Humor is when you set up one
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: thing to happen and then something else happens, and the
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: unexpectedness of it is what makes humor funny? Are we
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: not explaining jokes? Zoom totally cut that sound. I didn't
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: hear any of that. Zoom's like, that's too loud. That's
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: a weird frequency. You don't get to hear that. I
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: could see you go crazy, but I know that nobody
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: in the live audience saw that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Just like trying to think of some sort of like
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: dad joke level retort and just coming up empty. So
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: it's just inarticulate velociraptor noises.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: All right, mango, Let's get into this chapter fifty Choosing enemies,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: those of us whupun are often chosen as enemies.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: This is true.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: You are everyone's enemy.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: This is Elaine taking the Kyrienne and throne, or at
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: least starting the process.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is she's got the ball set up on
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: top of the hill ready to roll.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: And then this is a chapter where she.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Gives it that initial push, so like actually taking the
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: thrones a ways off. But this is a really important,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: committing to the action kind of moment.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: And she does it by choosing her enemies to give
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: them motivation to put her in power so they can
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: then take the power away from her. Right Like, She's like,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: consolidate power under me, and then you can have it later.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Maybe possibly if you're smarter than me. It's very tooan
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: like in a lot of ways. The you know, I
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: want the people directly under me to be competent to
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: take over if they succeed in killing me kind of deal.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, speedrinkle. I am also not super plussed on
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: this storyline. I know I complained a lot about the
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Civil War storyline when it was happening, but I don't
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: like this one yet another order of magnitude.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: And I guess because there's the day is day.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Mar of it all the part where it's really a
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: Kyrie inne and flavored maneuver. And I just have never
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: had much patience with the kyriane and political system. And
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: here's Elane, a character I like being very involved and
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: engaged and competent with that. So it's like you just
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: took everything I didn't like about the Andoran Civil War
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: and then made it kyrieenne and flavored.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, I guess you know, I don't mind
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: it because it's short.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: It is blessedly short.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I like the idea that she's taking the throne of
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: the place that she does it by. You know, they
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: give it at least enough of enough of a near
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: with this whole, giving lords lands in both countries so
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: that they will elevate her so that she has the
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: authority to do that, right, Like I get that. That
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: is that feels clever enough for me to you know, say, okay,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: check Mark, I'm happy with this. This is a good resolution.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: We're uniting the kingdoms together under a Laine Rand's children
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: are going to be king of both countries, right, and
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: we're doing the whole like Europe France. Like, I feel
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: like there's a lot of good parallels there, Like, I'm
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: happy with all of this as a storyline. Is it
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: my favorite to read? I'm not gonna say that it is,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: right like, but it doesn't make me grit my teeth
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: the way some of the other plot lines have.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, it is gloriously sped run for sure.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: I can't complain about that. We kind of just do
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: it one and done in this chapter for the most part.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if there's a bunch of it, you'd you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: there's this is terrible and the portion size is too
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: small is basically what people are saying right now, right like,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I want more like this is too short, okay, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I hate it. Okay, Then wait, which which is? Do
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: you want more of it or do you want less
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: of it? Right?
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I want less of this and more of her learning
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: how to be a warrior queen again. I just I
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: think I'm just pretty impatient with Kyrie and in politics,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: even going back to Jordan, so like it. Sanderson was
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: not going to be able to improve it. I just
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: don't think that was possible.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And they've they've really taken the ability to be warrior
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: queen away from her by leaving her pregnant into this
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: battle into the last battle. Yeah, right, Like there really
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: is just a limit to how much leading from the
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: front line she can do and how much she's just
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: going to have to be the one who commands from
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: the back.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's again where it would have been so
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: nice if we had like a year pass and now
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: she has, you know, a newborn, but also a team
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: of nanny's that like, you know, she's able to get
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: back to riding a horse without it being you know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: a miscarriageable offense kind of deal.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: One of many reasons why I think this, You know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't It doesn't have to take ten years, but
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: it could have taken five, Yeah, to get through this
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: story pretty easily. You know, there's enough time jumps.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Because in yeah, she could have had a short pregnancy
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: arc and then just had the always the lingering anxiety
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: about what world am I leaving for my children kind
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: of vibe, And yeah, then we wouldn't have the only
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: time she worerior Queen's being like literally when she's nine
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: months pregnant and couldn't possibly have gotten onto a horse,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: It would make sense that like Winter's Heart was like
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: three years long instead of like just one kind of
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: long winter in the wrong season.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it could have been a nice hat tip to
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Game of Thrones where the winter lasts multiple years kind
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: of deal. Just like, oh, that doesn't make any sense,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: but you can see the like Jordan Martin, like you know,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: handshake through the thing, because like they were, they were colleagues,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: they were buddies. Like that would have been fun.
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: Oh well, I guess I should read us into the chapter.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, go ahead, And I should point out that
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: the chapter your symbol is the rising sun of kyrie In.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Even though this is Elaine as the queen in and
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: or doing in door and queens stuff, this is building
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: up to all of her Kyrienne and stuff, So it's
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: the kyriane and symbol. Elaine sat anxiously, hands in her lap,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: listening to the distant booms. She had intentionally chosen the
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: throne Room rather than a less formal audience chamber. Today
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: she needed to be seen as a queen. The Throne
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: room was imposing, with its majestic pillars and lavish ornamentation.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Golden stand lamps burned in a long double row on
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: either side of the room, breaking only for the pillars.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Guardsmen in red and white stood in front of them,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: burnished breastplates gleaming. The marble columns were matched by the
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: thick crimson rug, woven with the line of and Oran
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: gold at its center. It led toward Elaine wearing the
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: rose crown. Her gown was after a traditional fashion rather
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: than those favored in court right now. The sleeves were wide,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: with the cuffs designed to droop down to a golden
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: birded point beneath her hand. That pattern was echoed by
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: the bodice, which was high enough to be modest, but
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: low enough to remind all that Elaine was a woman,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: one still unmarried. Her mother had married a man from
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Kyriene early in her reign. Others might wonder if Elaine
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: would do the same to cement her hold here. I
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: just love that she has princess sleeves. I just love
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: that she has princess sleeves. It's the freaking bet she's
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: got Disney princess leaves, the likes of which I was
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: drawing from the dawn of like kindergarten through the end
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: of middle school. Like those are the sleeves.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: Those are the sleeves. All the girlies know what I'm
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: talking about.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, but That's that's what Cameln is, right, Camelin
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: is Camelot. This is you know, the princess the she's
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: the queen now of this great place, kind of the
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: princess of Kyriene because she hasn't quite taken the queen
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: ship yet.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah she's a princess, and yeah she's I understand why
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: she's doing what her mother did and what queens since
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: forever have done, which is be like, I could marry
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: any of you, and I'm going to gain political power
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: from playing. I mean, that's what Beryline's been doing. It's
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: obviously what her mother did, you know. I mean she
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: actually fall through with the marriage. But like, I get it.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: It's very normal in world, it's normal in fantasy, it's
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: normal in history. I would have liked her being a
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: bit of a mold breaker. I would have preferred that whatever,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: it's fine.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Kind of reminds me it was men's answer fails that say,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: you know, you tease to get what you want or no,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: it was no, it's Leanne's yea who says you tease
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: until you know. And it's like, well what if what
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: if the teasing, you know goes too far? And he's
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: like then you enjoy the ride, right.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Basically, you pay the price and enjoying exactly.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: That's what it was. That's what it was.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like, I get it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: Sexuality is the oldest currency.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: It works. I would have enjoyed the Ultimate Princess in
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Ultimate Camlin just sort of randomly bucking that trend because
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: troue perversal is fun. I get why she didn't.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: And property is the other way to unite, right, marriage
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: and property exchange, and that's what she's doing in this
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: because she's dangling the marriage, but she's actually doing the
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: property exchange.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, and that's really all that marriage is a
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: legal institution is. It's just an exchange of property, always
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: has been.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well for a long time we call people property.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So yeah still dude, yeah, not as much, but yeah, yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Now we have this other limited thing called land, but
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: we won't go into that. That's a whole other economics.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: Back to fantasy, Back to fantasy, fantasy, fantasy.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't need to go on my sub
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: prime mortgage rand.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Nope, No, Dyland is doing embroidery because it's helpful. That's
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: what we need to focus on.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: She needs doing something with her hands to help her
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: focus with her mind. She's dutiling, she's knitting. She's I
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: like her. She's one of those people who's like, I
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: don't want power, I don't want to be up front.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I just want to sit in the back and like
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: help And I'm going to doodle well knit in order
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: to keep my hands busy while I think.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: It's also a funny bookend to book one, when Morgaze
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: was sitting in the throne doing her queenly pose and
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Alida was doing handcrafts next to her but being creepy
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: and weird about it. Now here we are new Queen,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: New Court, and there is still a woman doing hand
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: crafts in an advisory position, but it's dialin and she's
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: actually being chill about it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: That's a good but I didn't make think about that parallel.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: But I guess an ISID. I doesn't need an ISID
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: eye advisor, right.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not so much, not unless it's like on a
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: different adjas specialty kind of thing.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: So it feels like Dylan took that position of Alida.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: That's a good call. That call back around to those two.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, an older, more experienced woman who has no desire
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: to take your position because of the position she already holds.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I like that Elaine left Brihido with the Kyrieen and
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: nobility so she could track their movements proximity detector. I
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: look at something that, like in book one, we would
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: have seen from someone else's POV and we would have
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: been like, oh my god. That's how she knew they
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: were coming. Land was with them the whole time, and
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: that's how Marain prepared and we're like, oh, that blows
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: my mind. And here it's just like yeah, I'm tracking
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: them all through my order and we're like, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a level up that I believe because it
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: was mysterious and amazing way back when no one had
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: ever been to the White Tower. But now she's, you know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: all but tested in her eyes to giant ship. It
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: shouldn't be surprising, it should be standard, and it is.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: And so basically what's happening here is everyone is listening
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: to a demonstration of the cannons while some Andoran nobles
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: hang out and get to have little snacks in anticipation
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: of when the Kriane and nobles who actually got the
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: demonstration come.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Back and get told what's up?
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: But then those guys are actually getting to see the
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: disgraced Indoor Nobles getting sentenced. It's like this whole five
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: dimensional chess thing about who's getting to easdrop on who,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: who's getting to connect the dots at what speed, and
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: who is fast enough to get the ultimate point and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: sign on to the deal. While people like Brigida and
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: me are like, wait, what just happened?
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean she's Jesu offering offering this land
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: to the Kyriana nobles after the seeing a demonstration of
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: these incredibly powerful canons, saying hey, you want to get
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: on with the you know, it's essentially like bringing someone
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: to a nuke test site and being like, here's this
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: new weapon we've discovered. Do you want to be an
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: ally with us or not? And then people going yeah,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I think we're going to join you, Like that's that's
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: a pretty impressive weapon.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: But then she's super clever in that she does care
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: and stick. Right, She's got the stick of the cannons,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: the enticement to make you want to be on the
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: fuse side, not the business side of these cannons, right.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: And also we've got these mutually vacant spaces that can
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: be reshuffled, and it's this assurance of like, no, you're
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: not going to be second class citizens who joined under
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: threat of cannon fire. You're going to be making an
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: alliance where you know that you're gonna have canons to
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: continue to make your claims. And then she also, you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: does this whole thing where she politically redeems the most
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: disgraced of her end or ennobles right by saying, me,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Queen of Andor cannot forgive you, but me, Queen of
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Kyrie in I don't have any baggage with you, So
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: you can come help with these you know lands over
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: here and be political actors and do your thing and
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: create cross cultural stuff over there.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I think the thing about the lands though, is they
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: are highly undesirable. They have been left alone for like
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: more than a generation.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not clear on that, because she said she's
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: going to have to give them some of land's out
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: of her own holdings.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: What rand did to cola Vere, I don't think is
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: exactly what she's doing here. Probably they are kind of marginal,
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: but she is still salvaging them, turning them into people
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: who will at least be reluctant low level supporters of hers.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I imagine that she has a lot of holdings on
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: paper that are not ruled in reality, in the same
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: way that a lot of and Or right, including the
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: two Rivers, was part of and Or but not actually
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: ruled over by anybody. And so I imagine that she holds
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: lands in Kyrieenne that are part of Kyrieenne. But because
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: that whole area between you know, the city of Kyrieenne
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: and the Spine of the Dragon is basically abandoned since
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: the Ieal War, right, I imagine she holds lands in that
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: area and is thinking that's where she's going to give
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: them land from.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and I mean rand already started a relocation
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: program out there, like not just cola Ver like he
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: was pushing lot of people out there. So Elaine, yes,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: anding that with some of her own undesirables is yeah,
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: the kyrie Ine and people will not see that as unusual.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: But any frontierism like that is always going to be
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: fraught with death and deprivation and failure. Right, So sending
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: these and or nobles who portrayed you out to the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: frontier is not like it's not a nice thing to
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: do for them. You know, it's like it gives them
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: a chance, but it's not more of a chance than
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: killing themselves. But it's not exactly like the best thing
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: in the world for them.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: You know, she's not redeeming them to be nice. She's
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: redeeming them because they can be useful. It would be
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: a waste to let them in their houses completely go
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: out when she could, you know, use their desire to
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: survive to still do stuff. I do question, though, like
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: you're going to be just sending arrogant foreigners to take
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: over rural areas that haven't seen a tax collector in
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: a generation, just gonna show up and tell people what's what,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: because that feels a little colonial and I don't like colonialism.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So I'm kind of I'm assuming nobody lives there. Right.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: We've seen brand walk through that area and it was
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: pretty abandoned, so I assume the people who are moving
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: there are moving there with her, right.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So it's not like the Two Rivers where it's like
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: you abandoned us, Right, it's the depopulated because of war zone,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: because of the ideal war. It's still yeah, there's probably
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: not too many people doing fierce independent farm steading out there.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: This isn't a generation, This isn't generations of neglect. This
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: is oh shit, twenty years ago a giant army came
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: over that mountain. I don't want to live near it anymore.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, she's getting nobles to move across
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: the borders, right because she's putting Kyrieene and nobles and
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: or she's putting Indoor and Nobles and Kyrie. Even if
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: they're disgraced, it's still setting up connective tissue that will
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: be really hard to uproot as the years go by.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And the Kyrian and especially now own lands in.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Both right right, and she's teasing the potential she might
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: marry one of them, which makes for an even bigger
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: merging of Like's. She's making sure that there's not one
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: point of failure that can break this all apart again.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: And also by giving the Kyrine nobles the land, she's
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: not seen as seizing it for herself, because that would
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: definitely turn the Andora nobles against her if she was like, no,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I'm killing the nobles and taking their land to make
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: myself more powerful. Like, no matter who holds the throne,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: they all want to keep their land. As the throne
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: passes between them.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Right, you want to know that the ruler who is
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: protecting you and demanding your allegiance isn't going to rug
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: pull everything out from under you. You otherwise, why would
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: you support them?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Right? So, did you want to go into these Karana nobles?
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't have. I think most of them are you know,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I didn't look them up to see if their names
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: were fans.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: I don't think that the Kyrian and nobles are super
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: interesting aside from Lorstrom. No, the only thing that's interesting is, oh, no,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: that's actually an Indooran noble, Elenia Sarand right, her husband
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Jared is still out in the field and he's the
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: one that has that weird metal based bubble of evil
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: at the opening of next book. Yes, that was the
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: only thing that I thought was interesting to note about
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: the character connections here, because.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: She said, oh, I don't know where his army is.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: That'll be trouble, and it's like, nah, bubble of evil
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: will take care of that.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, we also do have Coliver's cousin here, who
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: has been very careful to like not draw Rand's hire
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: after Clover's death.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. Those are the only two that
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: stuck out to me.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: A lady Alil House riot in Oh.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, that's the other one that has a
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: connection to and she's the sister of the guy that
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: got taken over by Fane. Yeah, believe that those are
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: to our siblings.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Yes they are.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: These are all characters that have existed before.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: We've seen them in some capacity or other, but just
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: none of them do much more than be related to
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: people who have done stuff.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: And then there's these four in a row, late Lady
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Lord and Lady o c Ellen who she's if I
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: remember correctly, she makes advances on Rand in the Throne room.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: She's one of those ladies with the big skirt in
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: book two and book two.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: Oh my husband is a.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Flute me and my hoop skirt.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, same with Truly Andred mm hmmmm.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Once there, Tom is like, yeah, I mean every man
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: should have an education like they offer, but maybe not
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: from them.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Em Ra Ashley is not she's just in this chapter
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: only not named, just just a couple extra names thrown
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: in there as far as I can tell. Mava when
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: let me look that one up. Wow, these names are terrible.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they really are. They are fantasy names on fantasy names, like,
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: just let a cat walk across the keyboard. It'll make
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: more sense than what these names are, right, And.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: This person's only in this chapter as well, So.
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: Okay, I guess I was wrong.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: They aren't all people we've seen before, but they're mostly
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: people we've seen before.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just a couple extra names thrown in there, which
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I don't really get, but that's fine.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, Sanderson was worried that he wasn't going
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: to have enough characters to really flesh this out, so
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: if I just throw a few more in there.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I really do think people thought that character count was
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: the point of wheal of time and not a side
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: effect of the storytelling. And I wonder if sometimes he
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: didn't do that to be like, oh I need this
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: many characters per chapter to keep up with the pace.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: It's like that's not No, that's not the point totally.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: So Yeah. Basically, Elaine dangles all of these proposed ideas
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: and concepts and trades and then says, oh, by the way,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: none of this will work unless you make me queen
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: great of both countries. You're gonna need to accept me
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: as Queen of Kyrie, and in order for any of
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: this step. Now you've all said you want it, I'm
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: gonna need you to crown me.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: How quick can you make it? Happens like I.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Could do it in an hour. I could do it
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: in half an hour, And she says an hour an
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: hour will be fine. I don't don't race too fast.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: An hour will be acceptable.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's pretty much. It's just she she you know,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: she gets them, she tom sawyers them, She gets them
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: to paint her fence.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she walks them right into the palm of
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: her hand. And then just do And then we POV switched,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: you know, five whole minutes or location switch to later.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: And then Brigida and me and a bunch of other
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: politically non savvy readers are like, can you please explain
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: what the fuck just happened?
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: What even was that?
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And then Margaze goes all proud mother on it, and
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And I feel like this whole POV is just again,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: this is just Sanderson being like, okay, right, so let
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: me explain to you what I just did. There.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: See. The difference is that I.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Needed it for right, fair enough, fair enough, because it's.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: A complicated political subtrifugi thing. I genuinely wasn't gonna get
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: it unless someone laid it out plane. And that's just
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: where we get the line. Better to choose your enemies
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: than remain in ignorance, right, That's the title of the chapter,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: is choose your enemies. And this is one thing I
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: do understand.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: It's like the concept of management.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: You don't and ask someone. You don't ask an office
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: book color. You want the balls painted? You asked me
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: if I want them to be red or blue? Right,
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Like Elaine is choosing her enemies, you want to choose
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: your problem. It's sun zoo, right. Don't let the enemy
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: choose where you fight. You choose where to fight. Right.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: It's all that kind of logic bundled into one little thing.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And if you know your enemies, the known enemy is
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: better than the unknown enemy, for sure.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, there is.
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: It's so mean.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Knowledge is power. Knowledge is what wins wars better than
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: double you know. Like there's just no end of cute
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: little aphorisms to make this point. But I'm enough of
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: a dense reader that I did need Sanderson to spend
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: the extra page and a half explaining.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: What he just did. Spoiled Jordan would never I know,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I know, Jordan would expect you to figure out who
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: all those nobles were from other hands he'd dropped somewhere else,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: figure out what the relationship was to each other, figure
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: out why that happened.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: And you know what, if it had been Jordan, I
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: would have read these three books a lot more times
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: over because I would have needed to in order to
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: get what was happening right right.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: But you didn't because it's laid out there right on the.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: Page, And so doing rereads is way less satisfying because
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I'm not learning anything new.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Way to hard sell the podcast.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: People are here for our scintillating personalities, not for our
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: rapid fire takes.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh sure, yeah, that's totally it. All right? Do
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: you want to do you want to get to the
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: next chapter? I feel like there's a little more meat
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: in the next chapter.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Not to say again, I didn't like that, but you're right,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that was a very repetitive chapter. They kept saying basically
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: the same things over and over again. She said what
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: she was going to do, they did it, and then
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: she told you that what she did.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we leave them on. It's going to
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: be a long hour waiting for the conclusion of this.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: And that we can hop.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Into chapter fifty one A testing, and our symbol is
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: the dragon. Because this is not an is to dye test,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: This is not a wise one test. This is can
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Rand hold his temper while he gets slapped in the
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: face repeatedly by borderlanders test.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Which might be the most important test he has to
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: face before facing the Dark One, right, like, do you
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: have the temperament to deal with the Dark One? Or
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: are you going to kill us? All?
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I find the idea of you will test him
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: and kill him if he can't pass the test on
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: the eve of battle to be a wild last ditch
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: qc on behalf of the pattern.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: That is what a choice?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: What a choice? But I mean this goes back to
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: reinforce the idea that only Rand can destroy the pattern.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Only the dragon reborn is the one who's able to
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: end the wheel. The dark One can never do it.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: He can only convince the dragon to do it. And
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: so it's better to kill the dragon and live an
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: age in darkness under the tearing of the you know
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: of evil, because that way, at least the pattern can't end,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: and there's a chance for a hero to rise up
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: and bring back.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Right because, as Rand says in his final you know,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: soliloquy against the dark One in the next book, like
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: that man still fights, right. As long as there is
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: still a pattern, people will continue to fight, that's the point.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: But yeah, if he unravels the pattern, there was nothing
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: left to fight. There is no one. And yeah, so
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: the Borderlanders were like, yeah, We'd rather suffer a thousand
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: years of darkness than oblivion.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like that's what the prophecy is doing, right,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: That's like it's that last ditch effort if Rand, at
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: this point of their meeting hasn't and like the whole
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: all the stuff that delayed them and kept them from
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: meeting and kept like all that was was giving Rand
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the chance to essentially become who he became and gain
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: those memories and gets become the person who is an
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: integrated veins of gold hero. Yeah.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: And despite this chapter being dragon symbol and all about Rand,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: it's from men's povy. We're actually seeing Rand from someone
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: else's point of view, not from his, and not from
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: like a disdainful eyed to diet pyuvy from you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: one of his wives.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: So much more intimate look at him, and I feel
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: like this is the chapter where Sanderson really tries to answer,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: like what the fuck was going on with LTT and
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: in Rand's head and the memories and all that kind
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: of stuff.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is where Sanderson's over explaining really gets
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: to me. I needed it in the last chapter, but
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: this one is where I really don't believe that Rand
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: is Rand anymore. This is just so sandersony, and he's
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: so like, I feel more like myself than I did
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: when I was loosed there and I just you talk
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: like lose there, and dude, you don't feel like Rand
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: at all. I'm with men on feeling.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Unsettled by this because I feel like this kind of
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: shuts down the debate in terms of like what LTT
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: was in Rand's head? Right, we know that was an
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: insane voice in his head because he was always Rand,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: and if we just integrated those two like, he wasn't
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: integrating two personalities. He was always one personality. But I
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: do believe the memories change him. Right.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: But that's the thing is not everybody has the memories
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: of their past lives. As long as he's memories of
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: all his past lives, he just has memories of this
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: past life, so his whole like I'm just like everyone else,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: just more is like.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: I don't I just don't believe it. This doesn't feel
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: like Rand.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Whereas I feel like with Matt it was pulled off better, right.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Matt always felt like Matt, just with all these extra
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: battle memories. He's like, oh, I can tap into those
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: and use them occasionally. Rand doesn't feel like, oh, he
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: can tap into lewis Thearren. I think the difference is
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: it's one person versus multiple memories from multiple people.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't know. He just he ties it
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: up with two need of a bow. I don't believe it,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: and it feels like very peak. Sanderson over explaining and yeah,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: I find it much less satisfying than explaining to me
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: what the hell Elaine did in the thing.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: So here's my question, where has calendar been this whole time?
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: Do we know that it was with some eyes to
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: die that never get named that cad Swain knows, right.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: She says that she'd squirreled it away with someone, and
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: it sounds like Adalius and van Deen copy and paste,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: but it never gets mentioned beyond cad Swain has a
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: guy well, two gals, but you know so, Yeah, I
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: don't mean to read us in with Min's vision of Calendar.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you got a lot of readings this chapter.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: I do two entire readings. Do you read for the
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: last chapter. The hair on Min's neck rose as she
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: held the crystal sword Calendar. She'd heard stories of this
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: weapon since she was a child, wild tales of distant
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: tear and the strange sword that is not a sword.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Now she held it in her own fingers. It was
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: lighter than she'd expected. It's crystalline length. Caught and played
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: with the lamplight, it seemed to shimmer too much, the
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: light inside changing even when she didn't move. The crystal
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: was smooth, but warm. It almost fe it's alive.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: That's plenty.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: She has a vision of the sword being held in
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: a hand that she describes as black and as being
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: made of onyx. I'm assuming that's representing the moment when
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: Mordon is holding it and then the dark one is
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: holding it through Mordon, and then Rand does a little
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: swipsy swapsy and like.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and then he's frozen in place, right,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the whole like being stone being onyx, right, like he's
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: holding it, gripping it upright, who shall grip that fearful blade?
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the moment that one of the darkest moments
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: of the Mailstrom, of the fight, the actual sword fight
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: that Rand is going to experience.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: And I think the black hand is key to just
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: show that it's not Rand gripping it, it's somebody else right, right, right.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Which is really important to how that fight goes down, right,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: and really really important to be like, yeah, no, it's
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: a trap, but not for you.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: You give it to him so we can trap him.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Like that's the clue that, again we keep iterating over
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: and over and over again, is like, give allow Morden
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: to take the sword from you, think he's got it,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, these two women can
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: clamp down on him because it gives them control over him.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: They can open up the path to a lot of
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: true power. Use mord and his access to the true
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: power to make sure the dark One can't shut it off,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: feed it to you without corrupting you, use his body
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: as a buffer, you know, all those sorts of things
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: that they're doing to essentially win the last battle.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it all comes down to there has to be
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: the black hand of doom and entropy has to hold
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: the sword at a point.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: In that which is, yeah, to get the true power,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: because you need the true power to insulate yourself from
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: the dark one when you're sealing the prison.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: And so yeah, rand is carrying two weapons at this point, right,
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: He's carrying Calndor as a magical weapon and object, and
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: he's also carrying the power Rot sword as just a
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: symbol of stuff. And Rand or Tam is going to later,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: you know, scold him into learning how to use it
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: as a blade again properly. But you know, he's only
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: got one hand, but he's carrying two different weapons, so
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: that's cool. He's kitted out.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: And that one is that the power Ut sword is
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Justice Arthur Hawk wing sword.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Right, which he mysteriously found because underwater archaeology is a
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: thing in Randland.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: And we and that was actually an insert of Sanderson
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: because that specifically, yeah, specifically so, and they do mention
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: the deeper flaw in calendar, which I believe is the
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: ability to channel the true power rather than because they
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: know about the flaw that lets you take over somebody, right,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: but then they're like, there's an even deeper flaw and
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: that's the ability to channel the true power and be
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: a true power songreal right.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: And so as he's preparing to go talk to the Borderlanders,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: he sort of checks in on the concept of the
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Black Tower and it's like, much like with par and
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: it's like, hmm, that that sounds bad.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: Something bad's going on.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: We need to do something about that because we can't
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: travel in so we know that stuff is going down.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: And he decides to send Nafe.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: To go there to I guess take a mask of
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Mirror's weave, which I guess he didn't know before because
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: he says, use this weave. It can disguise you. And
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: I'm like, his mask of mirror is not common knowledge.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: But whatever he tells and Naf, you know, travel as
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: close as you can disguise yourself, sneak in, get me info,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: like something is wrong, and you know, Paren says he's
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: going to go deal with it in the dream because
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: he knows about dream spikes. Rand is just like, can
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: you go reconbat what happens to Naife? Does he show
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: up with Logan's party at some point?
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And he tells, I'm not sure what is let
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: me look at his final fate but basically he tells
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Andral the you know, that's the last order they get
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: to be men and so and Andral acts on that.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because he says, tell them I was wrong. Tell
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: them we are not weapons, we are men. Okay, So
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: that is how that message gets in is from Naif
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: So then yeah, what happens to him? How does he
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: die or survive?
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: He's at the Dragon's Piece as an escort during the
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Last Battle. Nafe is sent by Matt Coffin to the
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: shan Chan instructing them to rejoin the battle. This character
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: was named after charity auction winner brian.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Nef Oh cool, he gets to do multiple things. Then
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: good for him. How very unusual for a fan insert
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: name to not get immediately.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Right, And I'm like, whoa, he must have really done
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: well because he was in the Gathering Storm chapter one
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: and he's all the way through.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: First one to get healed of madness.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: He's the one with Nieve for the dust Bubble of Eeovil.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's yeah, that's it. He's just he's in the
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Last Battle escorting Rand. He's there, doesn't die, survives cool,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: So he goes.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: In delivers his message and gets out, yes, he doesn't
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: save anyone, but he also doesn't become a liability.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Appears to be that way cool, neat Yeah, the message
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: is all Apparently that was needed, I guess, which means.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: That Rand does not act on any information brought back
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: by Neate about how bad things are, and he does
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: still leave them to fend for themselves, even though he
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: gets an intelligence report from an agent.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, yeah, boo, yeah, transactions
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: with the Black Tower kind of suck.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Not impressed.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: So they're heading into formatting to meet the Borderlanders because
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: the Borderlanders think that will keep them safe. And we
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: get that line that like, oh the Guardian stops the
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: one and only the one Power, and you're like, oh shit,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: he's got access to the true power.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: Well, and everyone's looking at each other like what else
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: is there? Yeah, you know, because like not many people
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: know about the True Power. So everyone in the group
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: is looking at each other like what's he talking about. Yeah,
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: it's just one of those crazy things that he says.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: It's just one of those crazy things, insane Dragon Reborn says.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: And he has this whole conversation with Kat Swayn about
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: you know, you've got tools to make a gateway and
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: escape gateway happen.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: I know that.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: And then she's like, well, how am I supposed to
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: use it on you if you walk away from me?
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: And it's like, it's for me. He just wanted you
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: to be able to do that for me. He's not
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: he doesn't need to get out, but he wants to
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: know you'll get me out. It's fine, It's very cute.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: And then you get one of the most satisfying conversations
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: that I think people really do. Oh yes, yes, you
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: may call me Ran Sadai right, that's such a great
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: moment where she's calling him boy, and he's like, listen,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I've got all the memories of a four hundred year
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: old man.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: Read it, Just read it, Just read it.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, Kat Swayin. Sadai Rand says, off, your net has
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: a few ornaments I don't recognize. I suspect it is
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: a breaking era creation. But I was there when the
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: first ones were designed, and I wore the original mail version.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: The room fell still well, boy, Codswayn finally said, you
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: are you ever going to give up that affectation? Codswayin said,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I Rand asked calling me boy, I no longer mind,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: though it does feel odd. I was four hundred years
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: old on the day I died, during the Age of Legends.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I suspect that would make you my junior by several decades.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: At the least, I show your respect. Perhaps it would
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: be appropriate for you to return it. If you wish,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: You may call me Rand, Saidai. I am, so far
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: as I know, the only male, I said, I still alive,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: who was properly raised but who never turned the shadows?
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Smack down, just a great SmackDown.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: And then she responds by calling him Rand. For the
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: rest of the series, doesn't insult or respect him. She
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: gives him a neutral address.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean in her that's being equal, right, because
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: she probably doesn't call other isid eye. She doesn't say
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Moraine said eye. She just says Moraine. Yeah.
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: She elevates him to the level of disrespect she gives
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: all other of her colleagues, right, which is you know,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: that's respect from her exactly.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: There's a moment here where he says, who was properly
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: raised but never turned the shadow? What does he mean
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: by properly raised?
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: Because I was wondering about that.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: This is not white tower testing raising. This is age
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: of legends being raised to whatever makes you an i
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: sid eye in the age of legends. And obviously the
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: forsaken know what that is. Some of them have even
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: gone through it and then turned. But we don't know.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: No, we know that it isn't using an oth rod.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: We know that for a fact. That is the one
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: thing we know categorically is they were not using oath
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: rods as part of the Eyes to Die initiation process.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: They may have been using some of the turrang grioll
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: that are still used in the testing process. They may
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: have been using them differently or in some other arrangement.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Maybe the ones that the wise ones were using were
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: part of it. They may have used different turanngriill entirely.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: It may have just been a verbal ceremony. They may
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: have been no turungrial whatsoever, or there were turungriill that
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: never got used or that we've never seen because they
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: all got lost in the course of the breaking. The
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: only thing we know for sure is that it didn't
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: involve oothrots.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: And I can assume there's none of the terrangrioll that
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: are being used today are being used for the same
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: purpose they were.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: Used for yeah, probably not. It seems wildly unlikely. But
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: maybe that's part of why they decided to use turrangri
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: all as a testing means, was because they're like, well,
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: we don't have those turangrei all, but we can adapt
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: this other one to fit the same purpose or some
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: sort of you know, garbled interpretation of what they were
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: trying to do. I don't know, but yeah, I agree,
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: I don't. I don't really think that the arches or
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: the rings were there before present in that ceremony before.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: And then I love this line. Now, if only great
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: age were an indication of great wisdom, which I feel
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: like is one of those things that this book hammers
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: home these series is hammered home over and over and
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: over again, is that wisdom and intelligence and age don't
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: go together.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, he comes at that. Both of the authors come
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: at that from so many angles. They make that point
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: over and over again with a different combination of factors.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: And it's always true that there is no one to
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: one correlation.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: There just isn't.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's one of the reasons the can
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: is so frustrating, because they let the oldest rule and
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: the eldest is such a like crappy reason to be
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: in charge, and so you end up with these terrible,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: stodgy you know, afraid of change, afraid of taking risks,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: rules that really made people's lives miserable for generations.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and yet some of the most wise, helpful, useful
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: people are some of the oldest, right sore Leah is
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: a great example of some and who has really helpful
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: things to say. And it's been around for freaking ever.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: So again, it's not like old people are universally dumb.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: There's not a one to one correlation.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: But they're better in advisor roles. They shouldn't be, you
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: know president.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, yes, for sure, for sure. I mean there
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: are some there are some trends, for sure. But it's yeah,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: it's a it's just like the concept of information warps
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: and changes over time is one of the most fundamental
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: parts of wheel of time. The idea that you can't
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: judge someone's relative intelligence by their social rank or their
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: age is another like really load bearing concept for the world.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, which has made it really hard for me to
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: respect authority as I grow up, because these fucking bucks
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: taught me not to respect authority, that you respect the
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: person and for what they are not for the rank
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: that they hold.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: It's something that uh, you know, my husband and I
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: have been talking about a lot lately, is how many
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: of our elders have turned out not to follow through
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: on the things that they taught us.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, kidding to believe.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: And it's like, why are we disagreeing about this thing
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: right now? I thought I was following through with what
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: you told me was how the world should work and
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: how morality should work and so on and so forth,
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: and it's it's it's very confusing when like I thought
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: I was following the rules and now you're telling me
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: that there's some other secret rules set that you're actually
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: following that like profoundly does not meet the standards that Yeah.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's money is king is That's That's what I
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: think they left out, is like a lot of the
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: rules don't matter when it comes to money for them.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: It's more than just money. The examples I can think of,
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: but yeah, as as a proxy, yeah, there is a
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: level of greed and control that overrides the other stuff.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: Sure, yes, yeah, money and power for sure.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: It's one thing to question authority when you're young and dumb,
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: and everyone's like, oh, that's normal, But then you like
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: continue questioning it because it continues to not hold up
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: to scrutiny.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: It just it doesn't. It's frustrating.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: It's very frustrating. I thought eventually I would become mature
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: enough to realize that all these older people were correct,
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: and no, instead, I'm just seeing they've got more holes
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: than a block of Swiss cheese in their logic.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: That they had a very simple idea of how the
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: world worked and are clinging to that idea beyond all rationale.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: And yet what they told me as a kid now
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: counters what they believe.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Like right, yeah, no, I know it's fun. I don't
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: understand it. I'm certainly no one to tell you what
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: the answer is because I find it very frustrating as well.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's frustrating and confusing. And yeah, so it's again
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: these books are part of why it's so frustrating and
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: confusing is because I see again and again these characters
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: I respect and have grown up with, going, huh, maybe
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: we have to judge people on their actual actions and
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: thoughts rather than on their basic demographic markers. That's just
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: just a point made over and over again, and then
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: the real world is like, nuhuh, that's only for fantasy, right,
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: But art is supposed to inform my life. That's the
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: point of art. It's supposed to help us navigate real life.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: It's not supposed to be separate.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit of history reminiscing from Rand right,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Lewis Theren, Like this is part of what makes him
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: not feel like brand because he starts like reminiscing like
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: he's Lewis Theren. But the enclave of the in castor
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: those afraid of progress, afraid of wonder. Turns out they
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: had a right to be afraid. How I wish and
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: I listened to Gilgem Gilgame, gil Game is.
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: How they say it in the audiobook.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, wants me to think of Gilgamesh.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: And he's talking about sort of like the history of formatting. Right.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: It was before they had the Guardians, they were still
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: this place of Luodites essentially, right, isn't that what he's saying.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: That's how I'm reading it.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like fiercely Luddite, like Luedite in the overdone a
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: historic sense, for sure. I find it interesting that this
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: is a city that actually has cultural coherence and relevance,
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: stretching back to before the breaking, like the idea that
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: loves there and is like, oh yeah, this fucking city.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: I'm like, didn't the breaking rewrite everything? You don't know
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: any of the history between here, and they're any better
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: than rand does. So like for you to have that
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: reaction means that this city has maintained its identity through
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: like from before the breaking through the breaking, and it's
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: still doing that now. Like I thought the breaking was
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: more total than that. Wow, I guess maybe that's why
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: the Guardians exist, is I don't know, I don't know.
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: I found that for surprising far assholes. But farmatting is,
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: as Boujie puts at the cockroach of what cows, it
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: just won't die.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Well. I guess maybe the Guardian is part of that, right,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: because it was able to survive longer.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when does the Guardian get built though, because that
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: doesn't go back to the breaking?
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Not too well? But how long after the breaking did
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: they build it? Right? I thought it was pretty pretty
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: quickly after the breaking that that was created as protection
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: because they saw how bad the breaking was.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: I forget the story, but he literally even says always
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: a thorn in our side Arandashar was It's like, so
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: uh Rand's almost sounding like the Dark One talking about
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: Manestha in there, the thorn in my side, freaking conservative,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: backward Luddites. But also they have all this fancy technology,
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: apparently for blocking magic. I don't know they're progressive enough
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: to build the Guardians.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: And then they are women, you know, driven as a society.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're just such angry capitalist women. I don't
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: they just feel like men with skirts. I don't feel
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: like women.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: So I like reading about the Guardian.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, voujie the Lake mega mode is probably useful, but
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know. You can build stuff, you can build
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: embankments and bridges.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Hard to know, man, it doesn't say when.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: Really, there's no actual date on when the Guardians got created.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, okay, definitely existed in f y like nine
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: hundred something, which is before the Trollic War, before the
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: War of one hundred years, which is after Arterer hawk Wing.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: So let's see. I don't know. It's it's just it's
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: hard to know when you know it existed the thousand
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: years ago. At least, that's about all the constraint I
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: can put on it. It's existed shortly before the War
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: of one hundred years when arter Hawkwin was around, but
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: it was probably built and it was certainly built after
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: the breaking, So that's a two thousand year window I
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: can give you.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Well, that narrows it down tremendously, all right, Yeah, Well anyway,
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: I just think it's interesting that this is a city
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: that actually managed to maintain aspects of itself from before
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: the breaking until now. It's very impressive.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The location one of the things I was I
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: was actually thinking about in I of the World. You know,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Lewis Thearn He's the first person to go mad due
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: to the ceiling away of the dark one in the tank.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: Right sure, well, I mean him and the hundred companions
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: all go mad at the same time, at the.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Same time, right, Yeah. So he creates this, you know,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: he uproots the mountain and creates the river, and creates
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Tarbolan and creates Dragon mount and then in all the
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: other breaking, that river doesn't get disrupted.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: Well, the river was already there.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: He changes the course of the river.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, but you know, I just I
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: just thought I was like, man, it seems like if
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: that's one of the first things, this happens in the breaking,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: and then the breaking goes on for like hundreds of years.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Feels like that should have also been broken as well.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of inconsistencies with the breaking went down,
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: and they can't all be explained by the breaking being
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: the breaking, because some of it's like, yeah, but this
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: shouldn't more stuff have broken right then?
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Right? That's it. It almost feels like not enough stuff broke.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, it's like this, there's the if mountains
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: were rising up and bays were turning into you know, deserts,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: and dry land is turning into the river. You know,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: it's it seems like there should be a lot less
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: consistency in like cities that stayed and.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: Even just over three thousand years for normal erosion. Rivers
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: don't usually stay in the same place three thousand years.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: For a river to stay in the same place, that's
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: not like, you know, obviously a Grand Canyon situation, the
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: river's not going to reroute, you know, because it's a
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: little bit it's stuck where it is. But like, I mean,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: you know why the Grand Canyon has all those loopy
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: loops in it is because it was a meandering stream.
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: It was a flat almost no gradient stream and then
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: uplifts started again and it started to downcut really hard.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: But those meanders are from when the river could reroute
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: itself basically every flood and like the like the Mississippi.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: You know, if you're seeing the lighter of the Mississippi,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: there's just loops on loops on loops because it changes
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: so often. And you know, now people are trying to
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: hold it in one spot because of where we built
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: our cities and we're like, no, you can't move river,
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: but like that's what it does. These rivers move. We've
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: got a video posted and chat about like the Amazon
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: River Amazon River tributary moving like this is a normal
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: thing rivers do. So unless you're telling me that Tarvallin
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: is purely or the menserin drill is cut entirely into
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: bedrock and is down cutting, like that's the thing is,
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: rivers have to move. They either have to move laterally
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: or they have to move vertically. They don't just stay
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: in one spot forever. They move. The surface of the
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: earth is dynamic. We've in over three thousand years. It's
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: a very relevant amount of time for river erosions. So
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Tarvallan should not look the island of Tarbaalen should not
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: look like it did when loose there and made it.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: Even setting aside the fact that the breaking continued for
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: hundreds of more years and the other hundred it did
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: it did it did? You would think that as the
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: eyes to die are trying to set their stuff up,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: that things go down and put more weird punches in
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: the river or something, and then yeah, the river itself
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: should just be wandering away or downcutting over the intervening centuries.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Or completely rerouted because an uplift in land somewhere else
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: caused by some other Like if you.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: Make a new mountain range, you're gonna have new watershed boundaries,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: right right, If you flatten mountains, you'll have new new boundaries.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: And we're told repeatedly that new mountain ranges were made
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again, right like that's that's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: kind of the key to the breaking. So anyway, I
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I just again I went back and the seny the world,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: and that thought occurred to me of like, man, that's
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: all that lasted through the rest of the breaking, that
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: seems because it ends that prologue with there the mountain
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: and the river and the island waited, you know, I'm like,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: oh they did, and they managed to wait through the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: rest of the breaking. That's impressive, damn right, right right,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: totally irrelevant to this chapter. But other than the fact
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about like a city that lasted through
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: the breaking, right, this lake.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: Shouldn't still be here after three thousand years, right, unless
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: they are using the power to manipulate the landscape to
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: like is this like even Roman infrastructure, not a lot
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: of it is really still functional unless it's been maintained
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: by people over time, and some of it's still totally
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there's definitely stuff in Rome that's
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: like two thousand years old still pumping water. It's great,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: we're still moving water, not pumping it, but moving it.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you have to assume these are layers upon
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: layers of cities, right, one on top of the other.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: To assume the city is still here.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing is it's is it's implied.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: It's not right. The Guardian's been here for two thousand years,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: but they're being uncovered and moved up. Like, yeah, there's
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: a serious lack of respect for the geologic process in
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: these books.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Only you respect my geology. So yeah, we get this,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: this sort of summary of what Rand is and how
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: they merge together. And a lot of this argument is
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: in what it was revealed in this chapter is how
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: I've used to argue what Rand is, right, and that
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: the voice in his head was always the craziness and
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: the insanity caused by the taint, not him, not Lewis Tharn.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Lewis Tharn isn't a separate person. That is just Rand
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: with new memories, in the same way that Matt isn't
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: a different person because he gets his memories. He's just
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Matt with memories.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he emphasizes that it is memories alone and that
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: it is still him, that he's not changed by those memories.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: And I.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: Question the idea that you were not changed.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: By having memories, but it's the argument he's making. And
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: who am I to discount his lived experience.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, and that's something to talk about with the series, right,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: and that there is a soul, there is something that
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: is reincarnated that doesn't have the memories from your previous life,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: is still you and gets to love again and gets
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: to like we went through all that with veins of Gold, right,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Like why do you get to live again? It's like,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: so you can do better, so you can love again,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: because loving is worth it, even if you don't remember
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: it from life to life.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and he has, you know, this beautiful line about
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: like the differences that I was raised better. The difference
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: is the people around me. I feel more like myself
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: than I did when I was loose there and which
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: I think is like a weird thing to say. And
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: he does say if that makes sense, which, like, no,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: it doesn't, but like I do kind of get at
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: this idea that there is an intrinsic soul that has
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: gone through life after life after life, and each life
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: is better or worse for you know, manifesting your best
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: self or whatever, and like this is one of the
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: best ways that his life could play out. So he's
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: like the most holistically connected to his entire soul. I
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: think that's what he's saying. I think I get it.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: It's like he has to mask the least amount in
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: this life. Right in the past life he had to
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: be like this, h had to fake a bit of
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: who he was. In this life, the people around him
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: have let him be who he wants to be, and
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: so he feels more confident, and he feels more like
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: the person he grew up to be because he doesn't
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: have to pretend as much.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: He's more authentically himself.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: He's exactly put on a pedestal summoning the nine rods
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: of Dominion in a fancy coat, and he's more just
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: looking out for a lost sheep and playing his pipes.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: And I got to think of it looking back on
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: like high school and being like, yeah, I really had
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: to mask card in high school, but thank god I
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: didn't know how to do that at my current job. Right,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: Like that level of he gets to be him self
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: in this life and that's made all the difference. But
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: he can still remember that like shitty time that he
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: had where he had to pretend to be Lewis thereon.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: Tell him on, Yeah, he had to pretend to be competent,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: and where he had to pretend that.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: You know, X, Y Z all those other things, and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: where he didn't have the advice of a you know,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: strong solid man and he didn't have I feel like
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of doing what's right. Like Lewis,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Thearren did what we thought would get him success without
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: necessarily thinking about what would be right, and I think
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: that's what led him to the arrogance of thinking he
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: could win the last battle without support from the female
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: half of the is.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: At Eye, and also probably led to him having the
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: friendships that he had that turned into forsaken right, right,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: because his friendships were based on being competitive and being
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: arrogant and trying to you know, clim up this ladder
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: and even you know, his first serious relationship, fling was
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: with someone who was, you know, very smart and very
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: driven and maybe a little more ambitious than you know,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: whatever whatever. And yeah, that's why so many of his
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: professional relationships sours to the point that they turned to
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: the dark side, right right.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, what kind of personality does that to
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: all your friends? Right? Like, maybe you need to be
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: there and think about other people and supporting them a
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: little bit more. And how he's doing that because he
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: was raised you know, that's the arga, And he was
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: raised to be a better person. There's some like, oh, yeah,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I was raised to be polite, like I was.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: Raised to have Southern politeness. Yeah, exactly to perform niceness
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: and to blush at the thought of an unclad ankle.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: That's what makes it so much better as being a
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: puritan who hangs out.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: I was raised puritan.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if only I was raised with proper Christian values
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: instead of those decadent Roman era pagan values. That's a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: little bit what I'm getting from those.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit of that, a little bit of that.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: I was saved by Jesus. Also, I am Jesus.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: I will say that Jordan definitely believed wholly in the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: southern gentleman being the best kind of gentleman.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: Which, mmm, Southern gentlemen are a problem.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: Having Matt met the person that Matt was based on, Yeah,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: he's funny as hell, he's fun to talk to you,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: but wow, uh.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: M hm. So you know, I get it. Being a
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: snooty rich kid from the city who's put on a
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: pedestal doesn't make you a great person. I don't know
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: if the antidote to that is being a puritanical poor person.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Just because they're different doesn't mean one's better than the
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: other or improving on the other end.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: Right, that's that's you know, I see the idea of yes,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: we do want to change things up, but that doesn't
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: inherently mean that progress will be Progress is not linear.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: How was it interesting the hearing about the argument about
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: industrializing America and how a lot of our founding fathers
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: didn't want industry in America because they thought it would
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: better to be a farmer's would be better politicians would
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: be better able to support the republic.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: The Yuman farma understands the needs of the plantation.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Owner exactly, exactly. Yeah.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: The more I study ancient Rome and the fact that
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: the rich goes were all plantation owners who had just
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: reams of slaves working those plantations for them. But it's like,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: and that's who are founding fathers remodeling themselves after successfully.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: Let's not be surprised at the outcomes, please and thank you.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Yuman farmer being the correct mob to rule
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: is not the democracy that I was sold in my
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: early stages of education.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about the borderlanders?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the unity of the border.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Two women and two men, Tanobia.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: Ethnl, Peter and Esar. And we've seen them all in
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: scenes with each other. We've seen a bunch of them
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: in scenes with other characters. These are well established personalities.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: But they've been wandering the countryside for the last five books,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: right right, I mean they.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: Had a whole negotiation with a gwain and with a
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: lane right, like we have seen them all over the place,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: stuck in the snow, stuck in the mud, stuck between
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: I Eel and other armies. Like they have been just
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: pinballing around the continent and the plot.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: And they all have an isid Ie with them. There's
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: thirteen total isid Ee in the in the area.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they have four armies, thirteen is Sidai and
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: four heads of state.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: Are they in the area where isid I can still
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: channel but rand can't? Are they in that in between spot?
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: So I guess my question is are they also inside
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: the female bubble?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: Oh they are because of the whole discussion with Katswan
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: about having a well that she can use to make
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: a tiny gateway so that way men can get.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: Out, because I know there's there is an area in
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: between the two bubbles where you can actually prevent a
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: man from channeling, but women can still channel.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they go all the way in because they know
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: that he has eyes to die with him.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Men has a vision of Tonobia with a spear hovering overhead,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: bloody but shining in the light, which I mean I
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: assume that foretells her being stabbed to death when she
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: dies in the last battle, because that's what happens to her.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because it's it's just a general vision of
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: fighting and probably last battle.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: And yeah, one assumes that it's significant because she she.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: Dies, and that is how Paren and Fayel end up.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: Well that plus Bashir dies, and that's how Parent and
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: Fayl end up, you know, in charge of of Saldaeia.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's probably the Tanobia goes down fighting quite epically,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: you know, if the spear is bloody but shining in
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: the light, right, she doesn't betray anyone, she doesn't do
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: a cowardly thing. She gets betrayed and goes down fighting
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: absolutely bad. Even though we don't see how she dies, Like,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: one assumes from this vision that she goes down taking
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: several people.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: With her, you know, Tenobia. I think we do see
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: her go down.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: At a distance.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: We're not like in the fray, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: see her swarmed under basically.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I assume that she takes down at least
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: three enemies with her, and that's why the spear is
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: bloody but shining. You know, I'm choosing to believe that
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: this means that, like she she goes out like a warrior.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I kind of thought it was the spear that stabbed her.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: So, nah, you can't have shining in the light being
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: the dark friend ory. No, No, it has to be
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: a good vision. She's awesome, even though she's annoying as hell.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: I want to think that in her last moment, her
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: fierceness is turned on the right person, you know, and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: then Ethanel will soon wed. I believe that is to
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: one of Tanobia's uncles. We saw that kind of getting
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: set up in a much earlier chapter books ago.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh Kylin Ramson, Yeah yeah, Uncle l Queen to Noobia.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, there's this whole scene where we're in Ethanel's
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: perspective and he kind of looks at her into like, oh, yeah,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: you guys should have dinner sometime. I think it'd be great.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: And yeah, so from this vision, we know that that
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: that's going to happen.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Scardon grizzled, though, he be well, you know, she's.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: Already raised children and been widowed, and like, you know,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: a handsome boy toy is not what she's in the
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: market for. She wants someone solid and seasoned.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: So the next chunk is Ran getting slapped.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't get visions for all of them.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: No, that's the only two.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: We get to Nobia and that says the other two
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: have various swords, shiels and arrows hovering about them because
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: they'll fight soon.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: They're gonna they're gonna be in battle, which is like, yeah,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: no shit, Sherlock.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, So the two women get visions and then the
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: two men are Yeah, they're gonna have a time. Okay, cool, cool, cool,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: Pattern We needed that.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: But it's there to add the tension of is that
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: a vision of the last battle or is that a
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: vision of ten minutes from now. It just adds a
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: little tension and it doesn't happen, but it adds tension
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: for the scene because we.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Never know with men's visions when they're going to.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: Occur, right, And then yeah, we get to the slapping.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: Slaps giving yeah, which yeah, I don't how much everyone
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: slaps the shit out of him.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: It escalates, right, we have Ethnel got the right to
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: do it. First, she just gives him a pretty pretty
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: basic lady slap and then Esar backhands Rand. It's like, okay, cool.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: Then Tinobia comes up and you know, goes full armed
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: slap and King Peter actually knocks her into his knees
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: with how hard he gets backcanded. So there's a very
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: distinct step wise escalation as we go up. You know,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: we really we warm him up before we go for
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: the hardest hit.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're testing his temper, seeing at what level he's
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: going to react, if any.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: And then you know, assuming that it's not going to
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: be till the last one. That's Peter, who then presents
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: the question while making sure he's close enough to you know,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: do a sword to the abdomen, to the.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: Neck right right to quick kill.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: So it's a complicated setup.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: They definitely had to have choreographed that once or twice
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: with some air slaps athlon this scene slaps, But.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very ceremonial, very you know, sort of feel like
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: this is which is a little different because this is
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: like a one time ceremony. So it's like, I don't
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: know how I could feel that ceremonial because it's like,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: but we did have.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: The ideal first sister ceremony, which can't help but make
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: this feel like an echo, right sure, Yeah, yeah, there
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: we've had ceremonial slapping, so even if this is a
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: once in an age ceremony, it still feels ceremonial as
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: a test of temper, as a test of commitment. The
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: thing is that with the First Sister ceremony, they at
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: least knew they were in a ceremony, whereas Rand is
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: picking it up as it's happening that this is a ritual.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: It's more of a ritual than a ceremony.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's a good Yeah, a one time ritual.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: I like that because it's clearly got the import and
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: the metaphysics and the ceremonial or the solemnity. But yeah,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: more of a ritual. And all of the allies are
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: of course trying to, you know, defend Rand, and he
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: has to be like, no, we're doing a ritual.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: Calm down.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: I can handle being hit in the face. Dragon reborn.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: And then there's there's also this line from Kat swayin
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: where she's like, what are you doing? You cannot hire
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: a man to rebuild your house and reproach him when
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: he must knock a wall down to do the job.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: And it's just such a it's so.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: True, and it's so misplaced. It's so in the way,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: it's so in the way it makes no sense to
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: have that that even though it's a good point.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: It is a good point, but like not here, I
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: feel like they're testing to make sure he can do
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: the job. Right, you test somebody to make sure they
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: can do the job.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: Exactly, Kat Swayn just like completely misses the point.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just like Kat Swayne shut up quiet.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: And then yeah, this question and the name is what
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: is it? Telendel Tirriso.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I assume kind of a nobody, right, just a
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: clerk that The only reason this question exists is not
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: because the death itself holds any significance, but just to
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: see if he has integrated the memories to remember such
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: an relatively insignificant detail.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: This is the green eminems of the last battle.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, just testing to make sure that the contract
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: is being followed, that the person is not insane, the
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: memories are integrated.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you actually know what you're doing?
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Is the not secured? And they don't. They don't understand
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: why it's significant, but they just know that it is significant.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: And without this information being in Tran's head, he is
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: not prepared to face the dark one.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he hasn't integrated the lesson of the reason that
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: we fight is to try again, and he will choose
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: to end the world when presented with that ultimatum unless
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: he's integrated. So yeah, it's interesting how this random clerk
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: and her more or less senseless death is the lynchpin.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: But again, yeah, this is this is the green eminem
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: of the entire rock show.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking killed by lightning when Domindred attacked, right,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: is that's that's her death, which kind of feels a
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: lot like when Avienda and Matt were killed by lightning attacks.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, her blood on my hands, but
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: it was a lightning attack from well, not demondered in
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: that case, but yeah, from a forsaken from one of
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: the big bads that he's fighting.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: I think it was Rovin in that case.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of bookends to things
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: that we've seen before that like, they're subtle enough that
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: I didn't notice them until I was bringing my podcast
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: lens to bear on it. And so then yeah, Ethanel says,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: but we'll stop being mysterious. Now you pass the test.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: Now you can have the info dump and.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: I'll read the prophecy.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do it.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: I see him before you, Peter quoted him, the one
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: who lives many lives, the one who gives deaths, the
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: one who raises mountains. He will break what he must break.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: But first he stands here before our king. You will
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: bloody him, measure his restraint. He speaks, How was the
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: fallen slain Tellndell Terreso murdered by his hand? The darkness
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: that came the day after the light. You must ask,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: and you must know your fate. If he cannot answer,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: then you will be lost. You will bring his ends swiftly,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: so that the final days may have their storm, so
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: that light may not be consumed by he who was
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: to have preserved it. I see him, and I weep.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's not murder though, that's accidental friendly fire. That's rude.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: This is a rude prophecy. Murdered by his hand.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Well it's not entirely clear. Yeah, I think by his
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: hand was Demandred's hand. Well, it's not entirely sure. It's
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: possible to lose there, I.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: Guess, because it's like he will break because the only
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: he in this so far has been the dragonryborn, So
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know why it would change who the he
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: is for that one sentence.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Well, the darkness that came the day after the light
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: that you know, that could be referring to demondred by
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: his hand, the darkness that came the day after the light.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know anyway. The point is
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: that this was given by an ancestor of Paters who
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: was a is Sidai. It was heard and preserved by
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: one of her cousins or siblings and just kept as
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: a family secret, as a family treasure, like the kind
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: of story that Fame told about the Horn of Valier
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: when he was giving it to what's his face in
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: book two in Falma Tu rak, thank you Buji. It's
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: like that, except that this actually happened. This isn't a
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: tall tale. This is a real thing that somehow was
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: again preserved the entire three thousand years athlon. If the
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: prophecies didn't have pronouns, maybe we would interpret them better.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the world would be a lot simpler if we
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: just reduce the number of pronouns that were constantly splattered
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: across everything.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess it's not clear to me if Rand
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: killed her or if he just found his body after
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: the exchange, Like it could have been a demondrad attack.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe he probably doesn't even know. I'm guessing who killed
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: her would be my guest.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: Sure, which again I feel like murder is the wrong word.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: Then slain would have made a lot more sense. But whatever,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: it's fine, I'm nitpicking a prophecy. It doesn't need to happen.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: But yeah, then there's that moment where Tanobia is like, ah,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: you're you can't hurt us. We're inside the Guardian. RAN's like, yeah,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: so it only really blocks the one power, and everyone
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: kind of looks at each other and.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: Goes what he thinks and thinks like, huh, what does he.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Mean by that? Yeah, he's got the true power. I
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: I one hundred percent believe he's got the true power. Right,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: he has access to Morgan's body, right, Like, he still
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: has access to that. It's never been taken away.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, he generally doesn't choose to use it because
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: it is a problem. But like in the eventuality of
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: him snapping at these people, the guardians would not have
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: protected them.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: Right, And there's one of the reasons he's able to
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: walk in just calmly and not worry mostly being zen Rand,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: mostly being zen Rand. But there is that, Like I
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: think it's also the reason why he had no problem
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: walking into the White Tower, right, because what are they
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: going to do if they could even if they put
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: a shield on him, he still has the true power
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: right right, and he could just teleport out of there
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: because we've seen them right the teleporting with the true power.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: You don't need a gateway. He is fold in on
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: yourself and teleport from one place to another.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: Right totally. Well, so then yeah, Rand chides them for
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: being so foolish a month earlier and this would have
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: gone absolutely terribly and they're like, ah, it's fine. He's like, no,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: it's not fine. You shouldn't have done that.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: I think the pattern would have never let him meet
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: them before he was ready.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I agree.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: Or the last battle was imminent enough that he needed
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: to be stopped.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, exactly. I think the Borderlanders were completely
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: correct that they needed to engage in this, and it's
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: fine that Rand is freaked out by that, but he's
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: wrong that they shouldn't have done that.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: And so then he gives them the whole like, yeah,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: so you're stuck here and neither do what I say
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: and come with me the last battle or you're gonna
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: miss it because I'm about to break these seals and
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: start the last battle the day after tomorrow.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And they're like, well that escalated quickly.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: I thought we were giving you the info dump.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Good lord, He's like, I've proved I've passed your test.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: Your mine swear up.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like, I've saved one of your cities already, and
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: I'm still unwilling to bring you to the battle unless
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: you're willing to swear.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: I'm still holding true to that.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: And can I apologize to Hearing I was a dick
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: to him?
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he says, I'm going to give you an hour
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: to think about it, because that's at least how long
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: it's going to take me to apologize to Hear. And
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: I think that's a really sweet way for him to,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 3: you know, wrap up this engagement right to say, you know,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: here's this weird, ridiculous ultimatum about joining up swearing to me.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: That's kind of weird and king like, but we're going
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: to do the very human thing of actually taking the
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: time out of our day to go find here and
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: talk to him and apologize. So you know, he's containing multitudes.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: It's drack and reborn yeah.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: Because we needed that. We needed that redemption after the
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: way he treated here and in the last book that
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: was bad.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: Harin was like the most ride or die and yet
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: somehow not dragon sworn of the entire cast. He's the
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: most dragon sworn and the least dragon sworn all.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: At once because he worshiped Rand for being Rand, not
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: for being the dragon reborn, because he wasn't the dragon
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: reborn at that point. He was just Lord Rand to Hearing,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the way parent attracts followers like it
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: happened to Rand first with Hearin, Yeah, more than with
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: anyone else ever.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: So, and Hearing was always a good dude, always.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: You know, always respectful, supportive, discreet.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: Rand, loyal and Hearin was a great trio.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: They were uncorruptable fear I.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: Know, right, dazzled by yes, corrupted by no.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: No. With that, that takes us to chapter fifty two.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 4: No it doesn't.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: It takes us to the end of the episode for today.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: Yes and next time, chapter fifty two, which puts us
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: four episodes left in this book.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: Allright, so I'll give us a tiny little rita and
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: then we can call it a day.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: Sounds good.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: To me, they still look stunned. Kat Swayne rose to
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: go speak with the sisters waiting outside. She knew a
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: few of them and needed to feel out the others.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: She didn't worry about what the Borderlanders would decide althor
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: had them another army beneath his banner. I didn't think
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: he'd managed this one One more day and it all
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: began light, but she hoped that they were ready. Four
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: more episodes.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. That was a
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: fun one for me. I am liking the sandalanch at
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: the end of this. I feel like we're getting a
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: bunch of wrap ups, a bunch of really you know, hey,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: these are the final things we need to get done
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: before the last battle really kicks off. Yeah.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's really good at kicking the ball he set
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: up for himself. It is glorious to witness.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: It is a pretty solid kick, isn't it. It's just like, yep,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: here we go, there we go. It's like going over
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: the barrel in the Niagara Falls. Yeah, totally going over
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: Niagara falls in the barrel. If you want to say
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: it in the right order, geez, I can hear you already.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: And yeah, with that, I want to thank everyone for
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: listening to us again. Do please remember to share us
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: with the three people who live under a rock that
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: haven't heard of us yet, and remember that Patreon hasn't
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: had free feed if you want that.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Bye bye.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:26:00
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• 1:26:03
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• 1:26:07
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• 1:26:10
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• 1:26:14
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