Latest / The Inspired Speaker Network / Interview with Zakiyyah Cordell: Fruit of the Spirit & Healthy Boundaries - Being Kind vs. Being Nice

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Interview with Zakiyyah Cordell: Fruit of the Spirit & Healthy Boundaries - Being Kind vs. Being Nice · The Inspired Speaker Network

• 0:07
  Welcome to Evolving with Elle, where a capable woman recognizes what she's managing, understands
• 0:17
  the responsibilities that she's carrying, and chooses self-honoring over self-abandonment,
• 0:25
  and decides to continue, change, or release.
• 0:31
  I am Elle. I bring the mirror, the map, and the message. You choose how you show up in a way that honors your capacity.
• 0:41
  So let's lean in, learn, and evolve together.
• 0:48
  We're here with Zakiyyah Cordell. She is an author, an awesome woman that I know personally,
• 0:58
  and we have been this season talking about what we want to celebrate.
• 1:05
  We've talked about it from the standpoint of conflict, mind-body, and now we're going to talk about it
• 1:12
  from the fruit of the spirit. So what I want to just put a disclaimer out here,
• 1:19
  I love God, I have a relationship with God, and so does Zakiyyah. We are not trying to change
• 1:26
  your belief system. Because our belief system makes us who we are, we get to talk about our
• 1:34
  spiritual selves, right? And we invite you into this conversation, and you get to see it from
• 1:43
  your spiritual lens, or not at all. So we're not trying to convert anyone. We are talking from a place
• 1:53
  from which our heart comes from, okay? So I just wanted to say that. So with Zakiyyah being an author
• 2:03
  and a friend, I want to bring her up right now and let her share about herself.
• 2:12
  Hi, Zakiyyah. Hi, Elle. How are you? I am fine. How are you? Doing good, doing good. Thank you so much.
• 2:20
  I'm so glad that you invited me on. It's nice to get a chance to talk to you like this. Yes.
• 2:27
  It is fun to get to talk to you like this as well. Yeah. Yeah. And with that being said,
• 2:34
  can you share with us, you can introduce yourself and share with us something that you are proud of,
• 2:42
  something you hadn't really thought to kind of celebrate, and then we'll go in from there.
• 2:47
  Okay. Well, thanks. So the thing that I wanted to talk about is I like the idea
• 2:55
  of celebrating. So there's a couple of big things that I get a chance to share. So in 2024,
• 3:05
  I woke up from a coma of two days after having a stroke. I woke up in a hospital that I didn't
• 3:14
  realize I was there. And I looked at my husband of 24 years at the time, and I said,
• 3:21
  I need to make a difference with my life. Why was that the first thing I said?
• 3:27
  We'll eventually get there. And so Fruit of the Spirit was born. I needed to write this book.
• 3:35
  And I wrote it out of gratitude, like you had mentioned in the beginning,
• 3:39
  as kind of a love note to God, and also to teach people about how to build deep connections with
• 3:48
  each other, with neighbors, with people they don't know, people at work, by practicing the
• 3:55
  Fruit of the Spirit. And so one of the reasons I was kind of dismayed that there was not really
• 4:02
  books that were out there that didn't talk just about kind of orange slices. I wanted to go on
• 4:08
  the other side to really respect children and their families, their intelligence, and say,
• 4:14
  hey, look, they're okay. Even though we can keep it simple, we need to definitely tell them that
• 4:20
  the Fruit of the Spirit is literally serious, and it's from God. And so you can express that
• 4:27
  from God. So fast forward to today, 50 years old, and I did publish the book. So when it comes to
• 4:36
  accomplishments, I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, I did. I really got to do that. And I mean,
• 4:43
  it took a long time. I had wanted to write a book for a long time. And this is the one that came.
• 4:49
  Yay. That is so awesome, Zakiyyah. And with the Fruit of the Spirit,
• 4:58
  I have recognized that, you know, in the Bible, it's in Galatians chapter 5. Not only does it
• 5:09
  talk about the Fruit of the Spirit, but it also talks about the other stuff as well. And when
• 5:16
  I read it again, it says, you can't make a law against the Fruit of the Spirit, because
• 5:25
  because why would you? Why would you want to make a law against love,
• 5:30
  treating people the way you want to be treated, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness,
• 5:39
  self-discipline? Why would you want to make a law against that? There'd be no reason.
• 5:45
  There is no reason, right? So even if the following Christ, following God is not your
• 5:53
  bent, just focus on the words joy, peace, patience, love, treating people the way you
• 6:02
  want to be treated, gentleness, kindness, self-discipline, faithfulness. Like, as human
• 6:12
  beings, don't we want to teach our children how to be and live out this fruit? And don't we,
• 6:25
  as individuals and people, unique people, unique individuals, also want to live this out?
• 6:33
  Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree that that was the impetus behind wanting to do this,
• 6:40
  said, I want to make a difference. And like you're saying in even being gentle with an audience to
• 6:48
  say, I don't know where you're at. I'm not completely sure. I don't need to know that.
• 6:55
  I just need to approach it from a place that says you're valued. You have value and I have value.
• 7:02
  And so therefore, it is a presentation. It is a way that I'm choosing to treat you because of
• 7:08
  my specific spiritual beliefs. And that one is going to be the one that there is no law against.
• 7:14
  There is a law against the opposite of that, hating people, calling people bad names,
• 7:19
  treating people wrong, stealing and all of those kinds of things. There is a law because
• 7:23
  it's not right, but there isn't. It's true. There is not a law against it. And we definitely want
• 7:29
  people to treat people well. And that's really actually what God wants for us as well. So
• 7:37
  that exactly what you're talking about is exactly the reason, the type of difference that I wanted
• 7:43
  to make. And then the other reason was as a leader, I wanted to learn how to lead from a place that I
• 7:53
  was comfortable with and that I could be happy with myself at the end of the day. And my,
• 7:59
  a lot of people, but definitely my experience a lot of times with leadership was mean,
• 8:05
  yelling, putting people down, belittling people. And I never really felt like, well, I can't say
• 8:12
  never, but I've met leaders that were wonderful. But the majority of the leaders that I met,
• 8:18
  I was like, I don't, I don't want to do any of that. And I don't feel terrible if I did.
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  I'm going to go home and just be like, I don't even like me. So that's another accomplishment
• 8:29
  for me was really learning how to be a leader that I can be comfortable with, that I can say,
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  I can honor God, my beliefs, who I am as a person, my personality, and all of that,
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  and still be very effective at what I'm doing. Yes, indeed. And Zakiyyah, what I'm hearing you say
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  is you connected with yourself, you connected with your spiritual self, your values.
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  And from that way of being, that is how you chose to show up in the world. Despite the world,
• 9:17
  work, bosses, whomever, the work culture, expecting you to behave the way they behaved.
• 9:28
  But you made a conscious choice to choose and expect yourself to show up differently.
• 9:39
  And what have you seen from that choice? Yeah, that's a really great question.
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  So I will have to say one of the things that I've been able to see is the growth of
• 10:00
  adults, because I do work with adults, and I have adult children, and in caring for adults, sometimes
• 10:08
  being able to be a team, and appreciating that they bring something to the table,
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  and that when the wall is broken down that says, generally speaking, leaders are mean and nasty,
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  and no good, very bad, I'm going to ask you about what you bring, and what you would like to bring,
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  and what you're comfortable with bringing. Listening with a listening ear, taking all the
• 10:36
  gentleness and the kindness and the patience to go, let's have a conversation. And then from that,
• 10:43
  taking pieces that say, this is clearly important to you. Maybe I don't verbalize that, but the next
• 10:49
  time I talk to you, we're going to go, hey, I remember that this thing was really important
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  to you. Are you sure we want to go this direction? Because remember, I remember you talked about that,
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  and that was really important. So that was one of the things that I learned as a leader, being able
• 11:04
  to take the fruits of the spirit as how I was going to be leading. That was one. And the other
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  one definitely had a lot to do with, you know, there's people who can be really nice. Sometimes
• 11:15
  they don't set boundaries. And so I learned to set boundaries as well. And to say, here's how I can
• 11:27
  do it in a way that respects me, respects you, and respects whatever we're trying to do. And so I
• 11:33
  learned that in that self-discipline, I learned in that being able to be faithful, to just say,
• 11:41
  here's what it is that we need to do. And we can either do it this way, or that way, or another way.
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  However, the point is, we got to get this done. Right. So I can step away if that's what needs
• 11:58
  to happen. You can step away if that needs to happen. Whatever we need to do. But this needs
• 12:02
  to get done. And that was a place where I could, I finally learned how to correct people, just
• 12:13
  correct them without feeling terrible about myself, without pretending like I'm not trying
• 12:19
  to correct you, without belittling them, or, you know, acting weird. Just this is the way it is.
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  So that was another, that was definitely an accomplishment when it came to how to use the
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  fruits of the spirit to honor myself, honor other people. Because oftentimes, most people do want to
• 12:36
  do well at whatever it is they're doing. And so maybe they just don't know how. And then maybe
• 12:42
  they're not capable. Or maybe this isn't a good fit. But you're not going to figure that out if
• 12:49
  you avoid the conflict in the first place. Right. Or you have a wall up. You have this,
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  this rigidity, like, hey, I have got to be guarded. Because people have hurt me before. I remember my
• 13:04
  past. I remember previous experiences. And the words that Zakiyyah just used triggered something
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  in me, right? And that's where we get to be discerning. And yes, with discern, to me,
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  discernment is so different than being guarded and protective. Because being guarded and protective
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  of yourself, let's think about that. You're putting walls up around you, not only to keep people
• 13:44
  out, but also to keep you in. So you are placing yourself in captivity. You may not know that. And
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  that may not have been something someone highlighted to you. I had to figure that out myself. Because
• 14:03
  I started watching people and seeing how people could interact in a way that honored
• 14:15
  themselves and their values, and they were able to lead from that place. Right. And then I was
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  paying attention to the women that I'd seen growing up, like my mom, aunts, grandmothers,
• 14:29
  friends. And then I was paying attention to myself. So I was like, huh, I picked up their
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  behaviors of being guarded, because I had been hurt before. And my I was trying to protect my
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  value, all the things, right, my emotions, my just protect myself. Then life disruptions happened.
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  And I'm like, I'm trying to do all of this by myself, thinking that I've got to be skeptical,
• 15:04
  cynical, and protective. Because let's look at all this history of people. And mind you,
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  I knew about the fruit of the spirit. Right? I knew about it. But it was like, I don't know
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  how to use it in that kind of a situation. And then the light bulb came on. After interacting
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  with other people, and deciding, like what Maya Angelou said, if you don't like something,
• 15:37
  change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Right. So I did both. Yeah. Yeah. And
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  in recognizing that, oh, I don't have to be guarded, I've got to be discerning.
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  And discernment keeps me free. And I can, as you were saying, put the boundaries up.
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  Because people thought like, hey, Elle didn't have any boundaries, we could do to her whatever
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  we wanted and say to her what we wanted. And she just kept on going. Not anymore.
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  So we got to have some. Yeah, just letting you know, this is, I'm not going to be allowing this
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  to be crossed. You might do whatever it is that you're still going to do. However, though,
• 16:30
  you're right, I might need to change something. And that is okay. And it is. That's part of
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  evolving is looking at, huh, this is what I used to do. Or this is what I used to allow.
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  And now and seeing about peace about kindness. Because, okay, here's a question for you.
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  What's the difference between being kind and nice?
• 17:03
  Hmm. Yeah, let's see. What would I think about that? Um, you know, I would say possibly nice,
• 17:16
  if I really think about it is more along the lines of I just don't want to upset anyone.
• 17:22
  Yeah, at all costs. And I have definitely learned that for a long time that I just need to be very,
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  very nice meaning nobody should ever get upset ever with anything I ever did. But then being
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  kind can be I might need to say something to you that might not be wonderful. And I can still say
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  it in a way that honors who you are and honors who I am and honors the situation.
• 17:56
  I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. I was listening to Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, and he said,
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  don't be nice. There's no need to be nice. And that caught me off guard when I heard you say that,
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  right. And when he said it, it woke up to it opened my eyes to what you just said. Being nice
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  is about the other person and not about yourself. So you're a person is fulfilling someone else's
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  need, taking ownership of someone else's emotions, their atmosphere of their day,
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  at a detriment to self. It doesn't honor the other person on the other side.
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  Whereas being kind is not only am I kind to you, I will gently say something to you that needs to be
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  said and allow you the space to deal with however that impacts you. And I'm not holding back
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  swallowing mistreatment. So I'm also being kind to myself. And as you were saying,
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  when we opened up, you're all about connection, right? And relationship and creating these bonds.
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  So with the fruit of the spirit, being kind is a bond between both people,
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  because if someone has a horrible, no good, very bad day, whatever that song is,
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  that doesn't mean it's your responsibility or someone else's responsibility to help them turn
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  that day around. You just crossed a boundary. You dishonored someone and said you are not capable
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  of managing your own feelings, choosing how to switch and step into your peace and your joy.
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  You just said, hey, you have no self-discipline. So let me help you.
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  Yeah, you might not need that. Sometimes we do have to feel the big feelings that we have,
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  because the situation calls for it. And you're right, it's easier to go, okay, I would rather
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  everybody smile, but what kindness and joy, fruits of the spirit and all of that, what it brings up
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  in my mind is that it's not pretending everything is okay. It is acknowledging that no circumstance
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  at all is the one who dictates everything. That means we can feel what we feel.
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  Situations or circumstances can be what they are. And on top of all of that, kindness is consistent.
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  Love is consistent. Peace and patience and all of those things, because of where it comes from.
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  It's the character of God that he poured into us to go, this is a wellspring that we can have
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  at all times. So we can be grieving and we can still display the fruits of the spirit.
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  We can be in a time that's really tough, really hard. We can still do that. Also, because it does
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  allow for hope. Like you're saying, it allows for discernment, it allows for freedom, it allows for,
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  there's no law against it. Like you had said, it allows for us to still be able to
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  to know that hopefully there's a tomorrow that's maybe not as bad, or even if it is,
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  that we can get through it. We can move through this, that other person can move through that.
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  Maybe we can help to find some resources if that's where we're at. And if we're not,
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  that's perhaps okay too. But yeah, it allows for reality to exist,
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  because what also exists is the spirit behind the fruits of the spirit.
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  Yes, the spirit, and dare I say, the energy we bring to it as well. Because what I want to really
• 22:39
  caution people on, and just really highlight, this is not about spiritual bypassing.
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  You clearly said, feel what you are going to feel. That doesn't mean suppress, push down, avoid,
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  go around as if feelings are bad. They are not. Just like we are talking about the spiritual
• 23:13
  aspects of our humanity, there's also an emotional aspect of our humanity. And it all works together.
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  It is a system that we get to integrate and align. And I think that some of the reason,
• 23:35
  well, from my experience, where I have experienced misalignment, is when I try to separate my
• 23:43
  spiritual self, my emotional self, my working self. And I'm just trying to compartmentalize as
• 23:50
  I'm that, like, how many selves do you have? One self. We do. We do have one self. We do.
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  We have one. And you've got to bring your whole self into every aspect of your life, every role.
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  Because you know, that's what I talk about. I talk about how we have, say that one more time.
• 24:13
  I said you sure do. That's right.
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  As we have all of these multiple roles, we've got to bring our unique, authentic self
• 24:26
  into each role. Dare I, I like saying role identity, whether it's woman, parent,
• 24:35
  co-parent, spouse, employee, business owner, author. You've got to bring your whole self
• 24:43
  into each of those roles. Because you're carrying all of those roles all at once.
• 24:50
  Right. And that's exactly what you're talking about is, well, two things that you had discussed.
• 24:58
  One was, I have a theory that possibly, one of the reasons why I had a stroke a few years ago,
• 25:08
  one, because it was all kinds of health things that were just going on in general physically.
• 25:12
  But I think also, I was, I guess you could say probably misaligned when it came to emotions.
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  And there was a lot of things that I still was like, no, I shouldn't feel that. I don't think
• 25:29
  I'm supposed to, all these things, but I just kind of suppressed. And I know for sure that psychologists
• 25:37
  and others are like, you don't want to do that because you can have physical ramifications of
• 25:43
  that. And we kind of are thinking that perhaps so. And so that was one of the reasons why I said I
• 25:53
  went full energy on, I need to let this out. And I say that because I wanted to write a book for 20
• 26:01
  years. And not that I wasn't trying to write it. I just had like, am I really good enough to do this?
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  Can I actually do this? Am I smart enough to do this? I even went as far as to go, you know,
• 26:16
  maybe I'm just too old to do this. And all of these different excuses that I, they weren't loud,
• 26:24
  which is why sometimes for myself, I was like, yeah, yeah, that's probably right. Because it
• 26:30
  wasn't like, I wasn't meanly saying it to myself. I was like, you know, it's okay,
• 26:36
  don't worry about it. And then the stroke happened. And it just lit a fire that said, girl,
• 26:45
  what you gonna do? You're gonna take this little book right here, take it out of yourself.
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  Just take it out. And that's what we did. You need to live on your own because you are too big to live
• 26:57
  in here, where you're not supposed to be living. Nope. So it wasn't this title. It was I was going
• 27:03
  to do alphabets, numbers and colors for kids, because I like to work with kids. But then I said,
• 27:08
  I don't know if that's gonna be as successful, I guess you could say as something else. So after a
• 27:14
  lot of prayer, and talking to people and figuring things out, the fruit of the spirit was what was
• 27:21
  given to me. Because the second reason is, like I said, I need to know how I can be the leader that
• 27:28
  I'm supposed to be, because that was the other portion of it. I really wasn't doing the corrections
• 27:35
  I was supposed to do making sure that people understood, look, you can't do whatever that
• 27:41
  thing is. And I really mean you can't do it. But I also don't want to be misaligned with myself as
• 27:47
  not being a kind person. So I was like, so how do I become that leader? And so that is also why
• 27:54
  this is so important to me. Because I said, this is how I can be that leader. This is how I can
• 28:00
  actually let things out that need to come out. This is how I can do it in a way that's beneficial
• 28:06
  to other people. That's beneficial to myself, that honors God, that says, hey, look, this is who I am
• 28:13
  in every single role. As a author, I am this. As a mother, as a wife, as a co-worker,
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  as a person who goes to church, as a neighbor, as a volunteer. In all of the roles,
• 28:29
  I feel very, very comfortable with what you're saying, displaying something that there is no
• 28:35
  law against. I can love in all of those situations. Right. And thank you very much
• 28:45
  for sharing about your experience with what you believe was because you pushed your emotions down.
• 28:55
  Yeah, I think that had something to do with it. Yeah. And I'd heard the same thing
• 29:02
  when it came to grieving, because when I had lost my mother, I was grieving.
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  And I thought I was doing all the things, but my body was like, no, you're not. And so
• 29:17
  my body had a response. And I'm like, where is this coming from? Because most of the doctors,
• 29:23
  they're like, we don't know. Yeah. We don't know. And to me, when doctors don't know,
• 29:30
  that means it's probably emotional. There's something else that is causing an actual
• 29:39
  physiological reaction that comes from somewhere else. It is not a place that's like, okay,
• 29:46
  there's something actually wrong with your arm. Your kidney is doing X, Y, Z. No, your emotions
• 29:53
  are saying, excuse me, we need to do some things and you're not allowing it to happen.
• 29:59
  Right. IE, get the emotions out of your body. It's okay to cry.
• 30:05
  It's okay. Even if you're crying in the shower,
• 30:09
  you're crying in your car, or you find a safe person. You find a safe person that will just
• 30:19
  let you be. Just let you be. Yeah. And that's part of the connection that we're talking about
• 30:27
  in this in particular book is the presence of being able to be patient and gentle and kind
• 30:35
  enough to people to be present, to give that gift of I'm here. And we do grief share actually. And
• 30:43
  that's one of the things they also talk about is like you're saying, be discerning. Not everybody
• 30:48
  is able to listen to everything that you're going through, but some people definitely can.
• 30:55
  Some people are able to go, Hey, yeah, just, just talk to me. And I'm not going to try to fix
• 31:01
  anything that's going on. Cause that's not what my power even is. And that's not even what you
• 31:06
  need, but what you do need is a listening ear that says, Hey, just go ahead. Let that out.
• 31:12
  Just go ahead and let it out. And part of that gentleness and being good to oneself
• 31:24
  is asking permission first. Yeah, that's true. You want to do that. You are absolutely right.
• 31:30
  Ask for permission. Are you ready? Can I, can I share this with you? Can I, and it's true because
• 31:36
  you know, not every time, sometimes you might not have time, not have the ability to know
• 31:40
  whatever somebody else is going through in their own life. And they definitely talk about that.
• 31:45
  They definitely talk about the fact that we do have to be respectful of each other when it comes
• 31:50
  to, you might not be able to hear this right now. They even talked about maybe writing it on a
• 31:57
  letter. The paper is fine. The paper, go ahead, take 10 sheets if you need to, but yeah, pop it
• 32:06
  on there so that, so that it's out. But yeah, you're right. That that's a good point to,
• 32:10
  to always just at least ask permission too. Yes, because the permission, I was listening to
• 32:18
  Jefferson Fisher. He is a former, or no, maybe he's still an attorney. Anyway, he was on a podcast
• 32:24
  talking to somebody and he said that when someone just dumps their stress and emotion on you
• 32:32
  without permission, that's kind of rude and, you know, essentially unkind. So
• 32:39
  that's why I wanted to also highlight the need for the permission. And there are
• 32:48
  mental health professionals. Yep. There's that too. Because you don't have to worry about them
• 32:55
  sharing your business on the street because they have a structure that protects you. And when you
• 33:06
  find a therapist, don't just pick anyone off the street. You have to connect with them too.
• 33:12
  That's right. You do. It's okay. Take the time you need to find a therapist that fits you.
• 33:19
  I agree. Yeah. And that's a really good point also, because you had said something about
• 33:26
  I think it was, well, I guess I could say kind of masking or pretending. And
• 33:33
  one of the things that we do have to make sure that we're all aware of is that we don't have
• 33:39
  to pretend that we don't need medication, or we don't need therapy, or we don't need
• 33:46
  additional help in a situation because that's why the help even exists. And we might need it.
• 33:55
  And why not avail ourselves of what is out there to be helpful if that's what we need,
• 34:03
  or in the case of we might need it right now, we're grieving or anything else,
• 34:08
  having a life change of going to a new job or something. I mean, there's all kinds of reasons
• 34:12
  why you might need to talk to someone. I've certainly done that. One of the other times
• 34:17
  that I had to do that was, I think, okay, so I wanted to get, oh, so I had in my mind
• 34:28
  that I was supposed to have a certain degree, but I never wanted to get said degree.
• 34:35
  But I knew that I really wanted it. One, family expectations. Two, I really wanted it. Three,
• 34:42
  I was like, hmm, I'm going to really feel accomplished after I do this, but I don't want to,
• 34:48
  so I'm not going to. So eventually all kinds of things in life and career and all this kind of
• 34:55
  aligned. And I said, you know, I don't think I'm doing, I think I might be holding myself back.
• 35:04
  I'm not sure. So I went to a counselor because I was like, I don't know what's going on.
• 35:11
  And we just kind of talked it out. And I think, yeah, my mom hadn't passed yet, but my mom was
• 35:17
  really ill and we'd been talking a lot as well. And I think I might've been going through that
• 35:24
  too, just kind of working those kinds of things out and really having larger expectations than
• 35:29
  I even knew. I didn't even know what they were. I didn't have words for what was going on.
• 35:33
  And so she kind of helped me walk through some things and talk through some things and all of
• 35:37
  that. And eventually the counseling really did help me to move from or to identify why I didn't
• 35:47
  want what I knew I wanted. So once we figured it out, I was like, great, yay, all fixed. So yeah,
• 36:00
  so I eventually made the journey happen because what was holding me back was something
• 36:08
  that was kind of a limiting thought that was not necessary. And I didn't realize that it wasn't
• 36:19
  necessary until I went to counseling because it wasn't friends that were able to help out.
• 36:23
  I would talk to family and things like that. Those were not the conversations that could help me out
• 36:30
  because again, I didn't even have words for it. So the counselor, like what you're saying,
• 36:34
  there's all this framework, there's schools that they went to, there's all of these different
• 36:38
  questionnaires they can ask you that can help you to identify things that you might not have known
• 36:43
  what it was. So yeah, you're right. Ask permission, go to the professionals, avail yourself of all the
• 36:51
  various resources that you have. Like one of the resources that I want to say that women have
• 37:00
  is every Wednesday, I have elevating conversations for capable women who are carrying too much.
• 37:10
  And in that space, it's not counseling, it's, hey, what can we learn from each other?
• 37:20
  Because what you and I have been doing here, Zakiyyah, is we've been holding up a mirror
• 37:27
  and looking at, oh, this is what I did. And these were some expectations. And if you couldn't tell
• 37:34
  that Zakiyyah was full of expectations, every time she said, should, supposed to, those words are
• 37:41
  like, hey, that might have been an expectation that Zakiyyah had not examined. I like examining it.
• 37:53
  You hadn't examined it.
• 37:53
  Don't let it go away, because that's another should. I like that idea.
• 37:58
  Examine it. And that's what happens during elevating conversations. We get to
• 38:04
  examine what we are doing. Because it's a place of curiosity and openness.
• 38:13
  Because with the roles that we have, there's relationships attached to every single role we
• 38:24
  have. And there's responsibilities for each person in that relationship. And then we have
• 38:34
  these things called expectations, what I call the rigid expectations, the unexamined
• 38:40
  expectations. Because it's fine to have them. It's just, are you conscious of them?
• 38:48
  And if you're not, sometimes you need a mirror to say, hey, that's an expectation, dear.
• 38:59
  And then you get to, a person gets to reflect and say, huh, maybe it is. Because a lot of times
• 39:07
  we are holding on tight to limiting beliefs, to expectations that we were not aware that we chose.
• 39:18
  And by doing that, guess what? We're comparing. We are competing.
• 39:27
  And those two things are not part of the fruit of the spirit.
• 39:34
  Loving yourself, being kind to yourself. Because Zakiyyah, I heard you say that when you were saying
• 39:43
  maybe I shouldn't, maybe I'm too old. And you said it wasn't loud. A lot of times we're not
• 39:52
  just beating ourselves up in a kind of way. Sometimes it's that subtle, soft,
• 39:59
  soft, it's always been there kind of conversation that we've had with ourselves.
• 40:05
  Then situations happen that disrupt it. So what I would offer is that that two-day coma
• 40:22
  could have been the disruption in that familiar pattern that you had. Because when you woke up,
• 40:32
  you said, I got to get this book out of me. There's more to my life. So just think about before
• 40:39
  that disruptive situation, life-threatening even, scary, all the things. But now on the other side
• 40:50
  of it, we can turn and reflect and say, this could have been what was happening. Now this is
• 40:58
  how I'm going to move forward with it. I'm going to use this situation to get out of me what's been
• 41:07
  in me this whole entire time. Forget the age, forget how long it's taken, forget all those
• 41:15
  it's supposed to. Let's just be, right? Just be. Just do the thing, whatever that is.
• 41:25
  Now your book is out there. It's there. Families and children. And what I want to say,
• 41:35
  we try to put labels on things and say, this is who it's for. But adults,
• 41:43
  many of us may not have been taught these things. So when I bought my children books about emotions,
• 41:51
  I read them too. Because like, oh, I didn't know that about Greg.
• 41:56
  So when you buy and purchase and review Zakiyyah's book,
• 42:03
  read it too. Read it with your children. Read it apart from your children and take notes.
• 42:10
  Because sometimes we have to bring things down to that basic level to get that understanding again,
• 42:18
  to really connect with ourselves and create that bond that we probably did not have or
• 42:29
  pieces of it may have been missing or whatever. But it's okay. Start where you are.
• 42:35
  I agree. Start where you are. And exactly what you're saying was the permission. Each time I
• 42:45
  was giving myself expectations that I didn't realize that they were, I didn't examine what
• 42:51
  they were. I was not giving myself permission at all. And then once I did decide, no,
• 42:58
  I am allowed to look at something just to kind of see what it might be. Then I was able to
• 43:05
  to step over. It was that bridge to the next stage to go, okay, this is what I need to be
• 43:14
  able to say that maybe I can learn something new or maybe go get a new resource or something like
• 43:22
  that. That's what I can do as opposed to just stay stuck and keep listening to the voice for mine.
• 43:29
  I know for sure my main voice was always, it's more comfortable and easy to just not.
• 43:37
  That's usually mine. So now I'm very aware of when I'm going,
• 43:42
  am I saying that this is really comfortable and this is really easy, which is not terrible,
• 43:49
  but let me just take a look. Exactly what you're saying. Let me just examine. Let me just see.
• 43:53
  Sometimes it's fine, but sometimes it's not. Right. And that comfort zone,
• 44:04
  I found a journal that on the front of it, it said nothing great came or comes from a comfort zone.
• 44:17
  And I've had this,
• 44:21
  but we're always taught to be comfortable, to be safe and secure. Yes and
• 44:35
  our comfort zones get to be expanded.
• 44:42
  They're stretchable. They're changeable. They are expandable. Because let me be honest with you.
• 44:52
  If this was 10, 20 years earlier, I wouldn't be standing right here
• 44:59
  having this conversation with you for the whole world to hear. I got stretched.
• 45:08
  I not only had therapists. Yes, there's an S on that. They had different functions.
• 45:17
  I also had mentors, coaches, communities that saw me. They didn't judge me. They accepted me.
• 45:30
  They were like reading my label because, you know, when you're in a jar,
• 45:37
  the contents of the jar cannot read its own label. That's why it's important to be in community.
• 45:45
  That makes a lot of sense. And there was encouragement and
• 45:54
  stretchiness. Okay? Because they're like, don't stay right there, Elle. You've got greatness on
• 46:01
  the inside of you. And I'm like, are you? What are you talking about? Yeah. What you talking about?
• 46:07
  From different strokes. Okay. So with all of that, Zakiyyah, help us put a bow on
• 46:23
  what we've talked about for what you want the audience to know about what you are sharing.
• 46:33
  So we've done the reflection. Now it's time for you to share your map. Like what destination
• 46:41
  items would you like to share with us? Yes. So the destination items are one in our little
• 46:51
  wonderful book. It kind of talks about how to practice the fruits of the spirit in the world.
• 47:01
  So what this is discussed, you were saying the level of the basics, if you will, that the basics
• 47:09
  are one, how you take any wonderful book or activity and intentionally, deliberately enjoy
• 47:23
  with it yourself, the people around you, the people you care for, all of that.
• 47:28
  And so it has a lovely curriculum in there that teaches you exactly what that is. As you were
• 47:33
  saying, you wanted to give method. So one of those is look at the pictures, take a book,
• 47:41
  look at the pictures, look what's in there, grab the stuff from the Goodwill, from your house,
• 47:46
  from the store, wherever, make sure it's a book that everybody enjoys together,
• 47:51
  and then go act it out. So for this one, it's set at the park. So go to the park,
• 47:58
  take all the wonderful stuff, don't forget your snacks, take your pictures, camera, all of that,
• 48:04
  and go do the fruits of the spirit. And so what this one has is love is sharing.
• 48:09
  And I also wanted to say that as adults, sharing appreciation is one of those things that I wanted
• 48:17
  to say. And like back here, there's a grateful basket. So I have a lot of grateful baskets all
• 48:24
  over my house at my job everywhere, where I just write, and I've been doing this for years,
• 48:30
  write it down to remember that this wonderful thing happened, or this thing, like you're saying,
• 48:35
  I grew from this, this is a growth point, this is a this is a thorn that helped me to
• 48:40
  learn something new, any of those things, it doesn't always have to be on the positive side,
• 48:45
  it can be all of the wonderful things you're grateful for. So love is a sharing and being
• 48:51
  grateful. And then another one was faithfulness. We talked about presence, we talked about
• 48:59
  really being there and asking permission is being present with people. Is it okay? Do you have time
• 49:07
  to sit with me? Or when do you I really need to talk to you to bringing that presence in.
• 49:14
  And for this book, one, the story is a lovely young man who's in a wheelchair,
• 49:19
  because that's the other part, this book is it honors people of all abilities. So people who
• 49:26
  talk with talking devices, because I work with children who talk with talking devices,
• 49:31
  and their families, people in wheelchairs, we're going to eventually translate it to sign language,
• 49:37
  so that people who have, who are deaf, can also see the story without having to necessarily read
• 49:44
  it. And so making sure that everybody understands that we all get to express the fruit of the
• 49:53
  spirit because God poured it into all of us. But I digress. The faithfulness for in the book
• 49:59
  is a little girl sitting at the swings, waiting for her friend who's in a wheelchair to come over
• 50:05
  and be a part of swinging together. So that presence, that faithfulness, and as an adult,
• 50:12
  a great way to show faithfulness is to be there, to be available to ask people questions,
• 50:18
  ask permission. And then the last one that I wanted to share, which I deeply enjoy,
• 50:24
  is the joy portion, where the kids are on the slide, they are just everybody's having a great
• 50:30
  time. Somebody's over there on the swings, somebody's over here on the slide. Other people
• 50:35
  are at the top waiting. And they're just like, yes, I am deeply enjoying being here with each other.
• 50:42
  And that's one of the things as adults, sometimes intentionally celebrating is taught out of us,
• 50:53
  because we have to conform to so many different things we have to conform to.
• 50:59
  But this is allowing us to remember that it is a beautiful connection to have when we intentionally
• 51:05
  choose to enjoy each other. And so those are kind of the things that I wanted to
• 51:10
  share with your audience as methods that say, here is how we take the fruits of the spirit,
• 51:18
  and not only have it in theory, but have it in real life, wheels on the ground, practice,
• 51:26
  go do the things. And it is the quality, I think you had mentioned that the quality in which you do
• 51:33
  it is what it's talking about. It softens hearts, it makes great connections with each other.
• 51:43
  It can tear down walls, it can build people up, it can give hope. There's so many wonderful
• 51:51
  things that can happen when we choose to put into practice the fruit of the spirit.
• 51:59
  Okay. Yes, indeed. And thank you for all of those nuggets, those methods. It has just been,
• 52:12
  I could talk to you forever. But we can't. Because these people are probably like,
• 52:18
  we've been going on for a while, but I'm grateful that everyone's been here and listening.
• 52:23
  But I want to honor your time and want to thank you for your time. And thank you, Zakiyyah,
• 52:29
  for sharing your book. And the link is going to be in the show notes as well. You get to learn
• 52:40
  more about Zakiyyah and the gift that she will have for you. And the gifts I have for you, again,
• 52:48
  they will be in the show notes. This has been Evolving with Elle. I look forward to seeing
• 52:55
  you on Wednesdays for Elevating Conversations because midweek, we all need to be elevated.
• 53:02
  Many of the women were like, oh, I feel lighter. We share heavy stuff. But when we leave,
• 53:10
  we feel lighter. Because guess what? We're not carrying the shoulds and the expectation and
• 53:17
  we're being able to feed each other. And that's what this is about. It's that kind of piece.
• 53:22
  So thank you, Miss Zakiyyah, for your time.
• 53:26
  Thank you so much, Elle. That was amazing. I'm so glad we got a chance to talk.
• 53:33
  Until next time.