Latest / Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul / Inner Systems, Outer Ripples: Listening to Your System to Create Systemic Change with Ana Uribe

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Inner Systems, Outer Ripples: Listening to Your System to Create Systemic Change with Ana Uribe · Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul

• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: Hello everyone.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to today's episode of the Healing Her Story podcast.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: I am delighted as always.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_04: I absolutely love these guest episodes.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: As much as they are for you, they're also for me.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: I learn a lot from these guest conversations and I get the opportunity to connect with amazing women and humans all over the globe.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: And today's guest is no exception.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: Today's guest is actually a connection through the trauma-informed community that I'm a part of.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: I've mentioned, I think, a few times on the show before.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: I often support one of my mentors' trainings.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: Her name is Atira Tan.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: She's been on the show before, actually, and she shared a lot about her story and her history.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_04: Very, very wise woman, and I feel very grateful to have, yeah, really steeped my system in her teachings.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_04: And everything that I know, most things that I know about trauma-informed care come from her.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so this connection is connected to that community.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: And to me, I always have such a deep resonance with people in that community because we are very like-hearted and we have a similar perspective and understanding of the world.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm always really grateful to be able to connect with people who see and understand the world in this way.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: And a while ago, I had made a post on Atira's private community group called Mighty Networks.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I made a post with no expectations, just sharing that I was looking for some guests.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I forget how long after, but not too long after, I had Anna reach out.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: And as soon as I looked at Anna's website, I could already tell without having to read much further that there was already such a deep resonance with this trauma-informed sort of lens of the world, this frequency of compassion and softness, of gentleness, of spaciousness.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I expect this conversation to be extra spacious and gentle.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I hope that it's soothing to your system in that way.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a nice little segue here.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: Today's conversation, as we are in Virgo season, is going to be focused on systems.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I know systems aren't always like the sexiest topic of conversation.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: However, they are what makes up our life essentially.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm really excited to have Anna on today to share a little bit about her perspective on the systems of our lives as a trauma therapist and a compassionate inquiry practitioner.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: She's also a trauma-informed embodiment facilitator and educator.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: Additionally, she's a senior facilitator in yoga and meditation, a trauma-sensitive facilitator, and a passionate advocate for plant medicine and psychedelic integration.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: Her work centers on helping people find inner safety in their bodies and nervous systems so they can heal from trauma and live with more connection, joy, vitality, and freedom.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_04: She's facilitated across a wide range of settings from youth and post-attention and foster care systems to universities, corporations, and retreats, and also co-authored a research project at Victoria University delivering a trauma-informed yoga and mindfulness program to 300 students.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: Pretty incredible.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: Please welcome Anna Uribre to the show.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome Anna.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Riva, for having me here.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so happy to have you here.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll invite you into the first um sort of prompt that I always ask all of our guests to respond to on the show.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: And that is to tell us your story.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_04: My story.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: It can be told in so many different ways.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And based on the conversation that we're having today around systems, I would say that and also being in Virgo season, me having a lot of Virgo in my astrology, systems have been something that has come really useful for me from a very young age.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I find them very sexy myself.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And when I have feeling to my story through that lens, I can see how from a very young age, part of my systems that I was creating started to from a place of needing to cope with life and uh finding different strategies to help me cope with what was very difficult to be with that I didn't yet know of.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So as you can tell, I'm not necessarily from Australia, even though I am speaking from here in Melbourne.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Colombian.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And due to various political reasons, we had to flee the country as a family to uh when I was 12 to Ecuador, and then from Ecuador again, due to political reasons again, we had to move to the States.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And through through that movement, when I was early in my teens, the first I would say system that I created for myself was moving my body.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the way I was moving my body back then was running.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I became a runner, and that was one of the main strategies that I started with.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Initially, it was really helping me cope with such a difficult time.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Being a teenager, coming into a country where I didn't speak the language, and my parents hadn't had lost pretty much everything that they had built.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: I needed to run.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I got shoes and I started to run and became a runner for many years.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then from running, I uh also at one point became an elite runner and kept running until my knees said, You gotta slow it down.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: My body started to say, you gotta slow it down.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that until I was in my late 20s, I I started to listen to my knees.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I started to listen to my body.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that those systems that I was creating for myself that were also really that those strategies as such as running also came from a place of not necessarily accepting my body simultaneously.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up with body dysphoria and a lot of different again challenges.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they were there those systems, while they were really helpful back in the in that time, it started to have an effect in my body.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so late in my later in my 20s, I I uh started to listen.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in the listening, my body asked me to slow down.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I began to listen to those whispers.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: I landed into yoga in the yoga world, and uh yoga taught me to listen really for the first time.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I was actually listening before.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: It really taught me to listen for the first time.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I became a yoga teacher and started, I wanted to share yoga.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, gosh, everybody has to try this.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it started to share yoga, and after two years of sharing yoga, a lot of different things started to happen within the room.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people having panic attacks and sharing about their suicide ideation, and I didn't know how to respond to that.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So shortly after that, I got really interested into the in the trauma world, and I was given a scholarship to go and study with the trauma center in the States, and then I started to learn all these different pieces that inevitably took me into my own trauma and something that I hadn't yet uncovered in my own mental health.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so from there onwards, different doorways began to open.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And as I listened to those doorways, part of the the door that I opened was simultaneously plant medicine.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: As part of that listening is the plants that started to call me.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I heard the call, I went and sat for a 10-day dieta, and that was another initiation into my body, where right after my first dieta, I had I started to have chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, which my body again just knocking on the door through different ways, which took me into the deeper layers of what I had carried in my bones that I didn't know of, and my brain had so beautifully uh hidden to protect.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so part of my path has been to uncover what my inner system carried, and and so that's been part of my journey, which has led me into, of course, creating spaces for others to learn about their inner systems and what they might carry.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, through that, noticing the power and the possibility that exists when we do that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So tasting my own transformation, uh healing from chronic illness.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that that that's not part of my experience anymore, has inspired me to create spaces for others where they can learn how to listen.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So what is interesting here in reflection is that a lot of the systems that I started with that were so externally oriented became over time internally oriented.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So listening from within and from here, I create the systems now that I live by day to day.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that for me this is it's very clear because it is in my body right now.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering if if it made sense to you, or if I need to clarify or crystallize things.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: It made perfect sense to me.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sharing your story.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: I saw a lot of myself in your story too.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: Another thing that makes these conversations so interesting is the mirrors that are reflected back to each other.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I too had a period of my life where I was doing a lot of running, and I think that's not just physically, but metaphorically in some ways, running from what the system was carrying inside.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, it was really helpful as well during that period of my life.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I also received those similar messages to slow down.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: And what I love about you shared too is how one the systems changed over time, and it sounds like initially there were systems that were created to cope, that maybe eventually turned into systems to support.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I also love that piece about your systems being externally focused and how that eventually brought you to an inward focus of the system inside.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Which continues to, continues to.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I see the my body as the doorway into the systems, and that it's not necessarily different from the outer systems.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there is also a correlation in my experience, and a whole dance in that as well.
• 14:11
  unknown: Yeah, definitely.
• 14:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because we are also part of a greater system as well.
• 14:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: And our inner system sometimes reflects or even sometimes mirrors the outer system as well.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sometimes it doesn't.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so how do we respond to life when our system says one thing and the outer system says something else?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it can be quite complex.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's I've I'm fully devoted to keep inquiring within myself around that, as I personally have found it to be a source of radical self-responsibility for myself.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And also it sounds for me in this moment like the only way forward.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's that navigation, that knowing of that internal.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and the the the continuous listening, which sometimes so when I when I listen, it's from here that I birth my life, it's from here that I do my best to relate to my relations.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So what is that that I'm listening?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when I I'm tuning into my inner system, which is I have a system so that I can listen to my inner systems, which is like my my my morning, yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: My morning over time, what I've learned is that my morning is where I can listen best.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So first thing in the morning I wake up and um first initially communing with tea.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in my communion with tea, I'm listening.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm listening.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of there is a a direct conversation with the T that helps me to listen to what is actually present in and inside of me and around me.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So some of the things that I'm listening, paying attention to is okay, what's my body right now?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: What is what is it saying in this moment?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do I notice in my physiological system right now?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: What are the different sensations that are present?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And with curiosity, without necessarily in like it's not a hypervigilance, even though I do have I can have I can go into that pattern having complex trauma.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So just not necessarily so not moving from there, but just from a place of curiosity and openness.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: What is here?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I begin to include my emotional field, my mental, and I look at it through then simultaneously the lens of the nervous system.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is my nervous system saying right now as I notice all these different experiences?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'm noticing I'm I'm not able to listen right now, in fact.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: There is like rapid thinking right now, rapid thought.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so there is the sympathetic.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on here a little bit?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: What am I noticing there?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um or maybe something completely different.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then simultaneously, I'm including inquiry around where I'm in my cycle.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm right now I'm I'm in my third day of my bleed, which generally I wouldn't have these conversations on my third day of my bleed.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, it just happened the way it happened.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in that greater trust, so noticing, oh, when my inner system says, Hey, I'm a cocoon, and let's not have this conversation.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes when I shift that and I open, I can also surprise myself of what is possible.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I'll get to that in a moment.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, so there is a nervous that there is the cyclical wisdom.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: What is my womb saying?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: What am I noticing there?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So as I'm listening, first thing in the morning, I'm taking into account all of those systems within the system, and then from there I rebirth my day.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also have to consider that so yes, there is the day, but and then there is also the system of my work, and then there is also the the the the outer stuff happening, so I take all of that into account in how I'm moving.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: What you did for us here, which was gonna be my next question, was you really kind of help us to understand the different layers of that internal system.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: We are these whole systems that are made up of all of these other systems and layers.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so you've named the physical system, our body, our mental system, our emotional system, our nervous system, our hormonal system, all of these different layers that sort of make up your inner experience.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then I loved how you've really showed us how we can then use that information to then inform the way we show up in the outer systems and in our lives based on where we are inside.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean I can keep going.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, there is also, of course, the energetic system, and then there is also as women, if those for for for me, I'll speak for myself for myself with a womb, with with my cycle.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there is that cycle, but then there is also the cycle within the cycle, and the cycle within the cycle.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm also considering all of those pieces as I create a structures for myself which enable me to flow that much more, and so for example, after this listening with the support of the then I go, okay, so next, because I give myself the first two hours of the day to myself.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is what is here now?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, right today.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm like, today I'm I'm noticing a little bit of inflammation.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm feeling a little bit of um, I'll say the inflammation as it was this morning.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit of inflammation, and so I'm gonna use a little bit of lymphatic drainage.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So then I'll do a few moments of that, and I listen.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I listen in that movement because sometimes within the movement, I can be spilling energy rather than actually cultivating energy.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So in that is a content constant listening in the movement, in the practice.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: In another day, might be, oh, I'm gonna go into some strength training.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so during that strength training, I'm I'm going, okay, how am I moving here?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where it can, and a lot of the learnings come from oh my god, I just finished and I noticed I I I moved away from my let's say that window of presence.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so let's keep carving.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and sometimes is let's actually not be within the system today, and that's what my system needs.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just flow, so which is part of for me is being a beautiful learning as well, because these tendencies used to be quite in a way of survival when I used to be a lot more in survival and the chronic illnesses were really loud.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't do my practice, like how am I gonna cope with this day?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And today is more if I'm if I'm doing this practice, how is this watering my being, my plan?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: How is this bringing more aliveness and nourishment into my entire being?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this this keeps shifting the attitude, the intention in which I come with to this to this practice.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, really rich.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: I love what you've shared here about how using or rather creating systems have actually helped you have more freedom, more flow, more ease.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: I think sometimes, and this wouldn't be my personal experience, but things that I've maybe seen and friends and clients and just people in general, is sometimes I think when we're on like a spiritual path, we can sometimes resist those systems, thinking that they might be kind of keeping us rigid and like we can't um.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just kind of like flow and and enjoy life with more ease.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'd love if you can share a little bit more about that because I too experience it that way.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: When I have a system that truly supports me, it does allow me to have a greater sense of ease and flow in my life.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I can.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the way I relate it through my own experience is the container that allows the flow to happen.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, it is two hours, and within those two hours, I can be in that flow of listening and allowing myself to tend to emergence, and I feel very blessed that I have all these different tools and resources that I've over the years, yeah, like from a very like from very young, just being so interested in in yes, it was running, but then there was a lot of other things along the way too that I was collecting.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So then for me, I experienced flow in that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: When I think about the systems of my work, so I know at what time I can be best and most available for people.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like 10 till 5 p.m.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is my time, yeah, and to be with others and support others, unless I'm doing, of course, a weekend immersion, which is it's a different system that requires a system sometimes before that, so that I can be at my best with others for others and for myself during that time.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: So container.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think of the of my masculine trait, integrated masculine, again, which is that container that is not rigid, it's a semi-permeable container.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Feel of of like the the cell, the the this the the wall of a cell, semi-permeable, it's still manual, it doesn't have to be rigid, it used to, so I had to learn.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's, you know, Bobinsana, the plant, she came in beautifully to just help me break that down a few years ago.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's break all that rigidness out and let's make these containers more semi-plmeable, which means sometimes it's about not having the container in that way.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And to know inside of me that I will be, that I am already okay, even if I am not watering my plant in this way.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you for that.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: I love this metaphor of the cell wall because it helps me to see that ah, like like life needs a container.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_04: Can you imagine if cells didn't have a cell wall?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: I can't imagine that the cells would do too well without this container kind of holding everything in its right place and right way.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It does need that that structure for protection, for support, for it's what allows as well, in my understanding, that nourishment to come in and all the toxins to come out to regenerate.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel of that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what offers regeneration in me, and therefore my hope is that it ripples out as well.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as I as I water my plant, may it also invite others to water theirs.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I also really love what you had shared, not only about the cell wall, but about this, about it not being rigid, and how there's some flexibility there, and how your system is not necessarily a set of, I mean, you you have a set things that you do in the morning, but it's not in a particular way where it has to be done in a certain kind of way.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: No, you're more gathering information from inside to then guide you to how you want to spend that time, but the system is that you have that time, and whatever that time looks like changes.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I mean that's that continues to ripple throughout the day.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: As I've noticed that what works for my system, depending on where I am on my cycle and you know, cycle within the cycle within the cycle, yeah, is that that I do my best in carrying that listening throughout my day.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say after seeing a client, then I might listen.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's present?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm noticing I there is needs to be some tending after that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so just a micro practice of some sort so that I can keep tending to my vessel.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and sometimes I I learn that afterwards, okay.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I didn't tend to myself, and now I'm paying for that.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, in some in some way, and a lot of my learning is this constant initiations, which often are not as graceful as I'm making them sound right now.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's the opposite, going like, holy shit, I'm like, what's going on here?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, now I get it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So is this beautiful opportunity to learn that much more?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Each time.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: How do I tend to this inner system and outer?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to in in the outer?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something I need to shift to then help my inner system simultaneously?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's this constant conversation in and out.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's almost as if would you say listening is the system?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what I'm really gathering from what you're sharing as I'm listening, is that that listening is the system, essentially, the overarching system for your life.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: I uh I'm taking that.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, feel free.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Reba.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you're welcome.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we've spoken a lot about the inner systems and what makes up our whole system and listening to our system.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I would like to explore the outer systems a little bit too.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm curious, how do you experience the external systems of your life?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Which systems are we speaking about?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_04: I know we could go a lot of different ways.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: There's our our work system, there's also our societal systems, there's our political systems.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: What sort of systems do you feel like maybe are most meaningful or impactful to you?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're all having an impact.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, one of my my interests is again just while sometimes I I used to focus a lot in the other systems.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of my I come from a family with a lot of what do you call it in English?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the word socialist and wanting like politically quite involved.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that I grew up in that conversation constantly.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I first started yoga and started to find all these things around trauma, even and this is when I met Atira, in fact, is I I I co-founded this organization to support vulnerable communities through trauma-informed yoga and so on.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was really focused on the outer.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: How do I shift the systems?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and then slowly I started to become interested in in okay, so that feels really big.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I just noticed how how how how big that felt for me, relating it from that place.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: So then slowly what I became more interested is how can I again take self-responsibility in the system within, and from there, perhaps it might have a ripple effect.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so that started to happen with the people that I work with as well.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it it starts to have so the system around me, let's say, the the people around me starts to some way perhaps feel inspired of the way of living that I have, and then they begin to get curious about their systems and what are the systems that they if they need to shift any systems or not.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm more in this moment of my life, just a lot more interested in the in the closer systems, and rather than too far, it just feels unreachable for me in this moment.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I appreciate that, and I really welcome that.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: I relate to that as well.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: I like to really focus on my my micro level, is what I call it, where I'm focused on my own experience, the things that I control, and then my little sort of people that I can connect with and impact and influence that are around me rather than yeah, getting really worried and and hung up on changing these huge overarching systems.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it sounds like that's kind of what you're where you're at as well.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the the small, like the closer concentric rings is what I'm I'm really just finding more digestible.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so that might have so it is it's it's it's me, my beloved, my fur babe, my family, and my friends, my community, my clients.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then there is also communities that I am part of around.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I I work with extensively with childhood sexual abuse survivors.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also work extensively with like plant medicine preparation and integration.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all these different spaces that I'm interested in.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Again, because going farther just feels too much.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I hear that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's easy to get kind of like lost in these things that we can't necessarily touch and connect with and and put our hands on, but we can connect with and and touch the people who are around us, the mini systems that we can access and tap into.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I really resonate with that.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's helpful for our listeners too, because especially in this day and age with so much going on in the world, I think it's easy to get lost in everything that's happening outside.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not that it's not important and that it doesn't affect us, it definitely does, but what you've said here about the ripple effect and how if we can really come into that place of coherence, of connection, of integrity within ourselves, then that can create the shift without us even really trying to make anything happen, but it can happen in its own right time and way, and we can maybe trust in that ripple effect.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: While at the same time it is also something I'm sort of leaning into, it's uh inspiring.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Inspiring if people feel to be inspired by that, is non-attached, and I'm also not responsible.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you're not responsible for changing all the outer systems.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I what I what I'm it's it's it's too big to feel that responsibility, which is something that I grew up hearing.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to untangle that sense of responsibility, yeah.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Of you must change the world.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a big weight.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like okay, let me give you that back.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it can be a lot to carry.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's probably for another conversation.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, these this whole system systemic exploration can be explored through so many different lenses, and and it's something as I I go back to the the beginning of our conversation, it's something that it is, I I I say it, it's like it is sexy to me.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is I'm I'm constantly not constantly, but I'm I'm inspired by also learning of other people's be inspired by other ways as well.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what worked for you, Riva?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's working for you?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And while at the same time, my compass is me, my inner world for me is gonna be possibly different.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: What worked for me, what might work for you.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's uh inspiring to come in community knowing, hey, we're on this together, because also sometimes my inner system might be quite feeling pretty solid and strong, while let's say your inner system is not.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can we support each other's systems?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, while one is not necessarily feeling vital, let's say, yeah, and the other one is.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, what you how can we balance each other up in that?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm not really feeling it today.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can you can you can you offer a little bit of your vitality just by being next to me?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: So our nervous systems, our beings can balance out a bit.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: Really using the the nervous systems around us too, and then the people around us to bring ourselves back into that place of connection within ourselves.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, it is not different than yours, right?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's really at its core, at its core, I believe, I believe, and and to come home to that for me personally feels a sense of togetherness, and okay, well, let's let's uh walk together in this.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_04: What what's coming up for me is this word of support, and yeah, I think it's uh it could be something to reflect upon for our listeners around this idea of support.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: And are the systems in our lives supporting us?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: Or maybe there are ways in which they could be more supportive.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is it's a constant refinement, of course, because we are constantly changing.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, what worked the system that worked yesterday, by the way, might not work tomorrow.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this is also this beautiful opportunity of adventure that's actually not supportive anymore, or this conversation is not supportive anymore, or this environment is not so.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, let's be of that adventure of finding that, like what's bringing that aliveness in me?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's not it's not that.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so what is it?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: I was watching a reel on your social media on your Instagram page that talked about that a little bit, how what works one day may not be what works the next day, and what worked in one season of our life may not work in the other season of our life.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so, what does it look like to give ourselves permission to change the system, to update the system?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_04: How often are we getting updates for our operating systems on our smartphones and on our laptops?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: Every now and then we have to go in and and make some changes in order for the system to be supportive for where we are now.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're off we're evolving, evolving beings.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: We are dying and being reborn every day.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: So in that, and then there is also the seasons around us for some of us that I live where there is a lot of seasonal change, so yeah, which I find that adventurous, and for me it's been a journey of learning to be more semi-permeable, to be more willing, to take this more through the eyes of an in with of innocence.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's explore.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, having an openness and a curiosity around these updates and changes that need to be made every so often rather than seeing it as a personal failing or as a sign that something is wrong.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, because as you're saying, what comes up from me is even in the relational field, yeah, the systems that we might create with our within our relational um sphere might be outdated because we're now in a new phase as a relationship with a dear friend, with a beloved.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is that we need to refine here?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of my favorite things really that you spoke about listening being the actual system, yes, is the listening and then the action after the listening.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's listening and now tending.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Listening and tending, with the tending can be about not doing, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily actively having to move forward.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Although that could take us into another rabbit hole.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll go into so it's the listening and now tending emergence.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_04: Listening and then tending to the emergence.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, another another system.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I I get really curious too.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_04: You've already mentioned the seasons and the menstrual cycle, and that's something that we explore very deeply on this show.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I also get really curious about our connection to those systems as well, because we are also part of this over, um, not this overarching, but rather this bigger system of of nature.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so I get curious about your experience of that connection to the bigger system of nature and of the natural world, the seasons.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is changing so we can grow.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like nature kind of gives us the system or the blueprint, this kind of cyclical rhythm that we're constantly moving through.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's always happening, even if we're not tracking it or bringing awareness to it, that we are always kind of moving through these constant cycles of expansion and contraction.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for expansion to happen, there needs to be stress in the plant, some sort of stress.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there, and when we look at it through the lens of yogic tradition, there is this constant spanda, which is the contraction and the expansion of the universe.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the in and the out breath, the night and the day, then there's the sun and the moon.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's a stillness and there is movement.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these polar opposites moving constantly, which can well, when we relate from a place of what's in front of us is exactly what's inside of us.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there is no difference, and so it's how do I learn.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is from my personal experience of how do I learn to be with that to not resist?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to not go against the water change.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: To actually allow myself to go with the water as however the current is.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: What is it if we were to allow ourselves to go with the current of the water, no matter the texture, the temperature of the water, the speed of it?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a beautiful invitation for listeners to maybe explore.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it reminds me a lot of the cyclical rhythm we were just speaking to, and how much trust we can, or at least I'll speak for myself, how much trust I've come to experience when I trust in that constant expansion and contraction, the ebb and the flow, the shift of the waters, because change is constant.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: We're always changing, life is always changing, the world around us is always changing.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so when we resist that change, sometimes it can create more friction.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_04: But if we can trust that there will eventually from contraction, there will eventually be expansion.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_04: And from expansion, there will eventually be a contraction, and we can just ride that wave and do that dance as uncomfortable as it might be, and as much as we may not have control over that.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we can maybe learn to trust in that a little bit more.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that what's coming through as you're sharing that is this constant rebirth that we're going through in as humans, as beings, as nature, and the death and the rebirth, and the in-between space of that as well.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I always love to end these conversations with a few practical things for listeners to maybe explore if they're feeling inspired by today's conversation.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_04: So, Anna, what would you share with listeners if they're resonating with this and maybe they're initially thinking, you know, I don't have a system or I need to refine my system.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_04: What would you share with listeners?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_04: Something they can explore or play with maybe this week.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would invite for those who are curious to explore entering into their inner world.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: And based on what they hear, what they see, what they feel, to get curious about what might offer them support.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that support is not necessarily one that can just be done alone.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's about reaching someone we trust, professional support of all sorts, or it might be something completely different.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the invitation is to explore doing that.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if this invitation is bringing up something for those who are listening, I also want to in some way normalize that for many of us, listening and even just pausing to listen can feel that's that's too much, too quick.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if that is the case for those who are listening to notice that and potentially to also get curious, how can I support myself as I'm noticing that?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: As I'm noticing resistance to stop and to listen and to be with emergence.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, it's all information, isn't it?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's all information.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and the more open and curious we can stay, the more we can gather wisdom from that information.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and just going back to your question as well, with for those who already have systems and want to broaden or okay, so based on the conversation, was there any particular body that you could get to know a little bit more?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: As you're learning to hone the listening more and more.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Can you maybe begin to explore including other other facets, other dimensions of your being?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because there's layers to this human experience, isn't there?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: There is, and I didn't mention, which that's probably again another conversation, is the ancestral body.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's another one to add on to this.
• 51:06
  unknown: Oh yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a lot lots there for sure.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Anna, I'm feeling very inspired by your morning practice that you shared.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_04: I too have a system that I follow in the morning, and I've also adjusted mine more recently over the past like I'd say maybe six months.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_04: I used to wake up and I usually make myself a tea or something warm, and then I'll do a morning meditation.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then for many years, I would go straight into movement practice, whether it was yoga or qigong or maybe strength training or maybe a walk.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_04: And as I've been getting to know my inner system a little bit more and been tracking the information that my system has been giving me, I've actually adjusted my morning routine and now I still wake up and I do practice, but I find that my system really needs nourishment.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like before I move my body, before I go on a walk, before I do any of that stuff.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_04: I actually just need to eat.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, awesome.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_04: So now that's that's my system.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_04: I wake up, I have a shorter practice of meditation, and then I'll I'll sit down and and I'll eat breakfast quietly pretty much every morning now.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, that sounds divine.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that again, it's just that you're finding tune to what is supportive to you in this season of your life.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because I'm I'm in a busier season where I have just longer days and a bit more that I'm holding, and I find that really filling myself up in that way gives me more steadiness throughout the day.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're finding ways to carry you on in the in this within the wider system.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm also really excited to play with your your listening practice as well, because I usually will do um a guided practice, usually some somatic or or usually somatic of some sort.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_04: But now after listening to you, I'm like, hmm, what would it be like to really sit with my system and to sit with my warm drink and not necessarily be taking that guidance from someone else, but rather getting that deeper guidance from within?
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you for that.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's something I'm definitely gonna play with after today's conversation.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder also, as you're sharing that for those who are listening, what would it be like to shape the outer system based on what your inner system is saying?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Too.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what is it?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: What would it be like to shape our work, our offerings to the world from this place?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: What would it be like to shape our relational field from this place?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: The way we relate with our beloved.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we with my beloved, we're we have the calendar of my cycle, and we know when to make decisions when not to.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes this outer systems request something different.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, well, that also happened.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: But what would it be like to move through the world from this place?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's quite revolutionary when I hear you.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's so revolutionary.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it from at least for me, it has been.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, what a different world we would live in, huh?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think it would be a very different world.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I like to feel that there is a few of us.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I am very aware of my positionality.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: I want to also say that, but there is a few of us that are embodying this path more and more and inspiring within our concentric rings.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: So and whether those people might engage if they choose, if that is again is inspiring in that way, awesome.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: But even without it, this we're still bathing in that together.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: It takes me back teaching in prison.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the people will just lay down.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: They wouldn't necessarily do a movement practice.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: They will just let in their nervous systems are having the ripple effect of the few ones that were actively being part of it and practicing in different ways.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: So also trusting the ripple that happens, no matter how people choose or not to explore it.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you for that.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a good reminder for me too.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: I know I can get a little fired up about the systems of our world.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_04: Love that part of me, and I too can trust in that ripple effect as well.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Anna, how can people get in touch with you if they're feeling inspired by our conversation and want to connect?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're welcome to go directly to my website at anna-uribe.com.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: I also have Instagram, Anna underscore uribe underscore embodiment.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you're welcome to email me if you feel too leaning.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_04: Wonderful.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: We will put all of that in the show notes for listeners as well.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you, Anna.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_04: This is a really lovely conversation.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_04: And um, yeah, I trust that it it landed with those who were meant to hear it.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, really appreciate you being here, having this conversation, sharing your wisdom with us today.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Riva.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 57:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: And for your generous time.