Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #008- "I saw him reaching for the gun"

Transcript

#008- "I saw him reaching for the gun" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Texas, we are back.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um got a great episode this week.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Tyler Owen and Clint McNear.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um have a guest on that's it's bittersweet to have on because he's got a hell of a story from uh the gun battle he was involved in, and we're proud now to have him at TMPA as a uh as a fielder up here.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh David Curlowitz, thanks for coming on, bud.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: AKA Curly.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Curly with a K.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Curly with a K.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's my given nickname.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Which is Polish.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: We just got through talking about that.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: I said German, but I guess it's Polish.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know all the bad words in Polish.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um before we get started, uh if you're enjoying the content, if you would uh hit the subscribe button below.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we'd love to get feedback.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hit subscribe down below, start following the podcast.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh like on the ones that you like, and comment down below if there's some content that you guys want to see.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we'd love to have uh the input of where you want this thing to go.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: This is your podcast, and we'd love to have the input.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, I agree.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh let's kick it off.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Curly, tell us a little bit about uh where you grew up and what what led you into police work.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a boring story.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh I was born in in Chicago, grew up in Chicago, and um the youngest of seven kids.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And geez, when I was a little kid, my mom and dad decided to move out to the uh People's Republic of California.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: People's Republic.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um so kind of grew up half in Chicago and half in Southern California.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was one of those kids that I always knew what I wanted to do when I grew up.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was either, you know, go in the military or um join law enforcement.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: What age do you think you knew kind of that was your path?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I knew when I was a teenager, like 14, 15, you know, that that was something I was gonna do.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually started, I was in ROTC and going, you know, starting all of that stuff in high school.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And this was in California?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in California.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I started with the Explorers too and did that.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was a really close race.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And graduated, um, I started going in college when I was a senior in high school.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I graduated um high school and got my degree within a year and uh was in ROTC.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Air Force ROTC was was scheduled to go in the military, and they were doing uh the force drawdowns.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I saw that and I saw that kind of writing on the wall, and I was actually looking to go into um Air Force Office Special Investigations as an officer, but it wasn't guaranteed.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And my brother at that time had just graduated or just started the Sheriff's Academy.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I saw older brother, the oldest, yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: He was the oldest.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I told you guys I was youngest of seven.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my brother and sisters, they're all like a year apart, and then except for me, there's like a 10-year gap, and I was the oh hey, we're pregnant.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you were the oops one.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Surprise.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh hey, we're we're pregnant.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So um all my brothers and sisters, we you know, we we talk and we're close, but they all went into law enforcement about the same time, and nobody was talking to each other about it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Pete, my my oldest brother, he joined the sheriff's department.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: My two brothers in Chicago, one was a state trooper and the other one was uh Chicago Pete.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my sister went into um health inspecting, which was uh a law enforcement arm, and then my sister um was a uh sheriff service officer.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: So out of seven, how many were in are in the arena of law enforcement?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So six.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um there were six of us.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Were your parents in law enforcement too?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, mom and dad.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Dad was an electrical engineer, and mom was in retail, just working retail stuff.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, all about the same time.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that's how I got started.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um But you got started because of the explorers.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I started with the So many people in law enforcement really start that, and sadly, it's kind of deteriorating.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, honestly, I wish they'd kind of get that program up and going.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: But so uh I was 19.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was 18.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I put myself through a reserve academy or through an academy, basically.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And six months later I got I I graduated and put in to become a reserve uh police officer, and at 19 I was hired.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so in California you can be a cop at 19 as long as you're certified?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as a reserve, you can, and you can work in in some law enforcement aspects of it.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Could you buy bullets?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, no, my mom had to buy my first gun.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's embarrassing, you know.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Going to this going to the store and like, hey mom, I want that gun.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that was embarrassing.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I was actually uh a reserve on patrol, and I would I was doing bar checks, but I wasn't old enough to go into a bar.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then I can shut you down, but I can't have a beer here.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was crazy.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's that's kind of how it was I started.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was 19 at the time.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And was that at the agency that you spent your career at?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I stayed with um, I was working with Riverside County in Southern California, um, Riverside Sheriff's Office.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they hired me at 19, and I stayed there for my entire career for 27 years.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: So reserve, how long did you reserve for going full-time?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was uh as a reserve, I was there 19 till about 22 when I got hired as a as a we have correctional officers.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I started from reserve, I went to a correctional officer, worked as a correctional officer for a couple of years, and then went sworn and promoted all the way up through there.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was pretty cool.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: I there's nothing wrong with working the jails.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think it builds a huge foundation of communication skills.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and I I tell people all the time, well, can I need to start a career in law enforcement?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Is every time I tell them you need to start the jails because you have that one-on-one communication with these criminals that are in there and you learn how to talk to people, and so you know, again, it you know, we have another person on here that that began their career in corrections.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you've got to de-escalate and deal with everybody who's yeah at the crossbar motel because they don't want to be there.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, absolutely.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: The for me, especially being a young guy, right being a youngster in the jail, it gave me an opportunity to um face confrontation and to learn how to talk to difficult people.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you you hit the nail on the head.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: When you are out on patrol, there are so many things that so many skills, soft skills that I learned in corrections, that when I went to patrol, my patrol counterparts that never worked in the in corrections before, they'd always ask me, how can you talk to how can you get to talk to these people?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get that guy to give up that information?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was kind of hard to put my finger on it at first, but when you realize you're working in the jails and you learn that language and you know that body language, it's you can spot somebody.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone you deal with is not happy to be there.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, this isn't Hilton.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, we called it the Grey Bar Hotel.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So what uh what year did you hit streets?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, geez in 90.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, um man, I've gotta think about that.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um 99.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: 99.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 99.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: And how long um was most of your career?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know you promoted up um to some executive positions.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Did you bounce around quite a bit, or was most of it as in patrol and and beating the streets or so I started um well I worked in in corrections.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: We had three divisions at the time.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we had um patrol court services and um corrections.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I worked in corrections, I went to patrol division, and from there um I worked in all over the place.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I worked at five different police stations.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, we were a really large county.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I worked in administration, um, communications.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was assigned to our special teams unit as a um hostage crisis negotiator.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we were assigned to SWAT.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Another role where you have to communicate and de-escalate, probably some of the detention and all that's oh yeah, good foundation to for that role.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was always fun.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I worked our our uh lake services unit.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: We had a we had a couple of really big, huge reservoirs that were you know recreational lakes.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked there um and ended up working at the coroner's office for almost a year, almost two years.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: So for context for our watchers, watchers, our listeners.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm never gonna let that down.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Before we came on, Curly was telling us um for context to understand, when he mentions he worked at different stations, he doesn't mean different agencies.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: How big is the county?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh how many square miles roughly is the county you worked?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So roughly in round numbers, um, it's about nine, just under 9,000 square miles.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um square miles.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 9,000 square miles.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: My and then we had 22 patrol stations across that, across the county.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I worked for about, I think, five different patrol stations that I was assigned to, but responded out to all the different uh all the different agencies.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And just one substate, because when I think of substation, I think of a small building where you know a small shift reports to.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you're saying substation, you're talking about three or four hundred officers.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: It it depends.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um our smallest, we had um like one of our county stations had um 650 square miles, and that was that was a station that I was assigned to that I'm gonna talk about the incident.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was 650 square miles.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: We had at the time we had seven deputies that patrolled that on our shift.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Golly.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we really it we operated with the philosophy of one riot, one deputy, and you really they taught us to, you know, you take care of business and you really learn how to to uh work crop cooperatively with your allied agencies, highway patrol, uh fishing game, all those guys, because your backup may be that fish and wildlife, you know, Fed cop or the you know firefighter cop that's out there.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wow.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And for context, how many RSO, how many employees are at RSO?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we ebbed and flowed at the height.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: We had just under 8,000 um employees at the at the station now, or at the station, at the department, now I think they're down to um just around five.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: From almost 8,000 down to five.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Golly.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hiring crunch.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, wow, wow.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So hit patrol around 99.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like traveled around to a lot of different assignments and duty stations.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And we're leading up to um your critical incident.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And what year was that?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it happened in October of 2022.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, 2002.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: 2002.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: 2002.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're you 20 just over 20 years ago now.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's just a few months over.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Still in patrol then, still assigned to patrol at that time?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Still assigned to patrol.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was um I think I was a senior.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was almost the senior guy on the shift.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was the there was um one or two that had a couple more months on me then.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So um let's dive in.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: W you're on patrol, was it radio call came in or or kind of what happened?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a it's what we would classify um as a uh priority four call, really low priority.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: A um call on a check the welfare of an eight-year-old little girl that wasn't going to school.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that was it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just for the most part, people think it's a do-nothing deal.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody called in, go check by, make sure his kid's okay.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty much.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so on that day, there was uh, I think there were six of us on patrol, and my partner, I was a rover.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my partner, um, his name was Tony.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tony had he was just got back from the um Air Force, the military um spin-up where after 9-11, you had to, you know, they had the military people go out and stand around at the airports and do all this stuff.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: So he was doing he was doing some of that stuff, and he just got back after deployment for a year.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we were talking in briefing.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the sergeant tells us, hey, you know, make sure you guys qualify.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: You guys got to qualify today, you know, or or this week, so don't get into shooting.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And famous last words.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought that was kind of weird.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: We all two men or single single man corps.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Single, we're all single man corps.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so Tony goes out.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're it was in the daytime.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, beautiful day, just a beautiful day.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, nice sunny.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was warm out.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was a nice day.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was beautiful.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like a dark and stormy night or anything.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Day shift, evening shift.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Day shift.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the call came in about 12 in the afternoon.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: We got there about 1220.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Tony actually got there first.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then he, while I am on another call, I hear Tony get on the radio and say, Hey Curly, when you get a chance, can you roll on over here?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So and that we use 10 codes, but clear text is odd for us.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when I heard that, it wasn't like he was calling for help.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like he was screaming or anything.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: He just That's six sense.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just I I just to this day, I don't know why, but I hauled butt over there.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I did.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I turned tail and and got my butt over to where he was at.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when I was pulling up, his car, we were in a residential neighborhood.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um nice middle-class neighborhood, nice houses, you know, everything was well upkept.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was nice dice or nice place.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Tony was standing in the front lawn with another male, um, and he was from the uh can I say the name of the reservation?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So he was from the Swoba Indian Reservation and um his name was Peter.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So he's Tony's out front talking with Peter and communicating, or could you tell it looked tense like they're having a confrontation or totally relaxed?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was fine.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um Peter was standing there and Tony was talking with him.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I pulled up to the driveway and parked my car.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, being the backup unit, I I got out and come walking up.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And as I'm walking up to him, um Tony looks at me and he's like, Hey, let me talk to you for a minute over and kind of gives me the head nod.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I stepped back with him and Tony looks at me and he goes, Hey, something's weird, something's up with this guy.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he's telling me this stuff, and he had already ran him.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: There was uh he wasn't like wanted for anything.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he had some contacts for dope, some contacts for fighting and and stuff like that.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And he was a parolee, but he shook his parole number, he wasn't on parole anymore.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Something from his interaction just wasn't jiving with with Tony.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: With Tony.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so in just that short conversation of uh Tony and I talking, um I looked at uh Peter and he starts backing up.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: The suspect.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: The suspect, the bad guy.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll call him the bad guy.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the bad guy starts just he starts taking a few steps backward.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I see that and I Towards the house.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, towards towards the house.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're out we're out on the front lawn right now.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I see that and I go, I go off to him and I'm like, hey dude, come here, let me talk to you for a minute.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I walk up to him and I introduce him, you know, I tell him, Hey, I'm Deputy Curl, it's the sheriff's department, we're here for a check the welfare, and we gotta go in the house, find out why this little girl ain't going to school, all that stuff.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he's being really difficult.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's not he starts like rapid fire asking questions.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And he's not arguing, he's not being he's not being confrontational, he's just being difficult, you know?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like trying to delay or at the time, I I don't know if he was trying I I I didn't realize.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, looking back on it, yeah, absolutely.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: But he was just like, Why are you here?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Who sent you?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't why do you got to check the house?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you got to come in?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like for every answer that I gave, or for every, you know, reason that we were there, he he would rapid fire another question, just one after the other after the other.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it seemed like in the middle of that exchange, he just goes, Okay, you know what?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can come in.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to, I don't want you to scare my kid.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a kid, and I don't want you to scare my kid.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking to myself, you know, that how many times have we been on we've been on patrol with cops or with with our partners, and we interact with somebody and they say, Hey, don't hook me up in front of my kid, don't search me in front of my kid.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: So at the time I remember, okay, that's you know, that's fair.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, dude, we're not gonna scare your kid.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Relax, it's cool.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm not we're not gonna do anything with in front of your kid.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So he goes, okay, okay.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he starts to go into the house and he goes through the front door.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I don't know about you guys, I've I've always been taught that you never let anybody walk away from you, you never let them out of your sight, and you always, always, always watch their hands.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when he's walking away, I'm I'm following him, I'm behind him.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes in the house, and he's walking, he's walking rapidly, not like not like a stroll, not like a normal You walk with a purpose.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we're we are in the house in the hallway, and he's he does one of those things where he kind of like looks over his shoulder and does like a double take, and he does that oh crap.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he turns around and realizes that I'm right behind him.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And when he turns around, we're we're face to face.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: We we are we're closer than really closer than you and I are sitting.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And where he had stopped is the threshold of the master bedroom door.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the master bedroom doorway is um it's got double doors.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: One's one door is open and the other door is kind of half open.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: You guys, you guys tracking?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he's he's right there in that threshold, and we're close, and he's like, What are you doing?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna scare my kid, you're gonna scare my kid.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he he's putting his hands up to like block my view.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he's not touching me, he's not pushing me, he's not you know, being aggressive or anything.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's just he's he's putting his hands up in front of him and he's kind of moving them around, like wherever I'm looking, he's trying to block what I'm seeing.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, dude, calm down, calm down.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You're gonna scare my kid, you're gonna scare my kid.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And this was a time that like the hairs on the back of my neck started going off.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that you you get that you you get that sense This is about to go sideways.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Something's up.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: My so my next thought, or the next thing that I remember is I can see over his shoulder, like there's a there's a master bed and there's a baby on the bed there.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the corner of the room, there's a rifle that is kind of just sitting up propped in the corner of the room.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's my it's like behind a dresser, behind a bunch of junk on the floor.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's in the corner.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I see that, I see the baby, and okay, I make mental note of that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember my partner, Tony, is walking behind me.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as he's passing me, he's getting on the radio and he's calling for a sergeant in another unit.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um it was David 195 as our sergeant, and um, an 11.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Which is, you know, a routine backup.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Quick question.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: Noting, and I don't mean this facetiously, just asking true for context.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: In Texas, if you walked in and see a rifle leaning against a wall, I mean it's probably more common than not.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: In California, with some of the different beliefs and gun laws and all that, is it really uncommon to see a rifle in a bedroom, or is it not uncommon in a house to see one?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean that as poking.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Legitimately, is that would that be uncommon there?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is it's rare.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um in California is really big on it has to be locked up or secured.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's uncommon to see it out there.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's not uncommon to find them in houses.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Usually you'll find them you know secured in a closet or you know in a case.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well we're in a municipality setting.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're in a city at this point.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, not not I mean it's not a rule.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was a it's what we would call an unincorporated area, but this was a neighborhood.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this was a neighborhood of maybe 45,000, 50,000 in that area.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't it wasn't rural, but it was unincorporated.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a small city.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it's not that uncommon.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean sidetracked, you're just curious for listeners that if that would because that wouldn't be normal.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that would be extremely normal here.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in Texas, there'd be like four.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you know and in some sort of mounting configuration in California, that's yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: With their name, their initials spelt out.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um so Tony's walking behind you.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Tony walked behind me, and we didn't have the uh the ear, um, you know, the little things that go from your microphone to your ear, the the earphones or whatever.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I'm gonna date myself.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can buy them at Radio Shack for like you know 50 bucks back then, but do they even have Radio Shack anymore?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: No, it it's on business.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, about 10 years ago.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's news to me.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, for the for for your listeners, that used to be a place where you can buy Radio Shack.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you're still in business, we would love to have sponsorship packages.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to go ahead and go on that now, uh you can contact us at 1-800-248-8088.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you get back in business.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: David and I just learned that they're no longer in business.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that that was like that was like the new thing, you know.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can get your little your your earphone.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they were stupidly expensive and they didn't really work that well.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: They were just coming out.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I had my radio clipped to my shirt, um, or the microphone, I guess, clipped to my shirt there.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So everything that my partner said over the radio, you can hear it coming out of the radio.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I remember thinking to myself when my partner got on the radio and he said that.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: I remember going, you know, feeling that that relief, like, oh, you know, Tony knows I'm not good with this guy.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Tony knows something's up, you know, that we have that that connection, you know, your partner, just that that connection you have with your partner.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember having that relief almost that Tony's in tune, you know, he knows.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And right when he said that, right when he said, you know, we need a we need a sergeant and another unit, Peter, the bad guy, was standing in front of me, and like I said, we were close.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: He he locks eyes with me, and he tilts his head and he goes, Oh man.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the next thing I know, everything goes into slow motion.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Everything.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like Matrix just the the door starts to open, and I see a handgun right behind the door, and and the bad guy's going for it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I see it, and I yell, gun, gun, gun, gun, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm grabbing my vest and I'm pulling my gun out, and he shoots me.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that started this gunfight for just under three minutes.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know where the first round?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I got struck four times.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I got hit right in the chest, and the bullet came in right where my radio microphone was was um clipped in my shirt, and it had uh blew out the back of the microphone, but um screwed up the wires to where it made my microphone broadcast everything.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: It made it a hot mic.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so my microphone recorded the entire shooting.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you can hear you can hear the entire thing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can hear me getting shot.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I took a round to my chest.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I took two rounds to my um lower abdomen.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: The your vest, right where your vest sits at the bottom, um, the bullet hit the bottom of my vest and it caught the bullet just enough to where it curled when it went in, it curled it, and instead of going straight through, it shot up into my abdomen.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it went, it changed the trajectory from going straight to going up and or in and up.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third round went below my vest, and just you know that little freaking half-inch gap between your vest and your belt?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: It well, some of us that gap's a little bigger.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: I got my I have a big gap now.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um that but that round punched right through there.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that one went all the way through, hit my hip bone, and blew out my back.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um I later found out that I had a hole about the, if you hold your hand up, I had a hole about the size of my hand coming out my my back on my left side.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh a fourth round had actually hit my impacted my radio holder on my left leg and blew out the um uh holder portion and into my leg from there.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: What round was the suspect shooting?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the handgun that he had was a nine millimeter.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I want to say it was like a sig or something.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but he had a 19-round magazine and went through all 19 rounds.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And during this event, he shot us with a handgun, a full auto machine gun, and a shotgun.
• 28:50
  unknown: Wow.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So what I remember next is when I was backing up and drawing my gun, I remember yelling, officer down, shots fired, officer down, um, 1199, officer down.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you you can hear, like I said, you can hear the bullets hitting me, you can hear me in this gunfight, and it's it's recorded for just under three minutes.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And all of my partners on patrol are hearing this, and dispatch is hearing it.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: They can they can hear that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can hear you can hear the machine gun fire going through the house.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember things kind of sporadically, like still pictures.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was explaining to you guys kind of earlier.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: My next conscious memory was I was on the ground, and I don't know how I went.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know how I got there.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember seeing these little I like they look like little balloons that were kind of coming out of the wall, and everything was so slow.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was such slow motion.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And these little balloons were coming out of the wall, and they were they were dust, and it was just like turning right in front of my face.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember seeing them and thinking, wow, that's that's cool.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know now he was taking headshots at me trying to kill me.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: That was the drywall blowing up.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: My next conscious memory is I'm I'm leaning against the wall.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of squatting against the wall at the end of the hallway.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it is gonna sound really stupid, but it it's like I was looking down over my body.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can see the top of my head, and I'm I'm calling on the radio, officer down, shots fired, 1199, shots fired, stay away from the house.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: He has a machine gun.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw my gun, and I saw the hammer was back, and I I had this oh shit.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Nope, you're good.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: So if your hammer is back for listeners, you shoot in a SIG?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Boretta.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Beretta, okay.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the hammer was back.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I knew that I had fired.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I it, you know, it from double action to single action.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I had that um that realization, oh shit, you're in a shooting.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, you're in you you've been shot, you're and all this is going through my mind literally.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Your perspective is above, and you're seeing yourself below processing this that kind of third person seeing yourself trying to process.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds that's your reflection back now.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it sounds totally stupid, but that's how I remember it.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I I it in I I had this like dialogue in my head that was that was you know, oh my god, you're in a shooting, you've been shot, you're okay, I'm okay.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute, you can you can think, you can breathe, you can hear you're okay, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it it was just like somebody put that on fast forward saying, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's when I started to go from still pictures to you know, like normal memory.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: And did your perspective come from above back to yes, I'm okay, get back in the fight?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I I was, you know, you had mentioned earlier, it's like I I went back to like the first person view, and I remember looking down the hallway and seeing Marillo standing there in the doorway, and I engaged him from there.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you had already engaged him apparently before if your hammer's back.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember firing, but I remember getting into the fight there.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I remember.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember the the I remember him stepping back into the room and the walls started to explode.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he was taking the machine gun and he was shooting it through the walls at waist level, through the walls.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, you can see where the bullets were just plowing through the walls, just blowing everything up, and everything was just blowing up all over the place.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: The the rounds were going through the hallway walls, the the next wall where I was at over across my head, through the through the walls, into the kitchen, out the kitchen, and out into the street.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we're actually one of them even impacted into my patrol car and went down the street and hit other houses over there.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: So when he gets the gun, he has a handgun.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all have some sort of engagement because your hammer's back.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's some engagement with y'all's handguns, and then you realize I've been shot, you kind of have your split probably millisecond of oh shit, I'm still alive, I can get in the gunfight.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're engaging him again, he's now transitioned, he's dumped the pistol and has transitioned to a fully automatic machine gun?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: A full auto machine gun.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was Jesus.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bullpup conversion of a Chinese assault weapon.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it had 762.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It had it had the banana clips on it, and they were um they were double stacked.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've I've heard the term combat, combat loaded where they're taped together.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they'll tape the mags so they can just pull out and slide over and slide back in.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's how he had them, and they were fully fully loaded, and they were double taped like that.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was down at the end of the hallway, my partner, as I was telling you guys, when he walked behind me, when the shooting started, he continued to go to my left.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: And Tony took up the position there, and I was in the corner.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was seeing those puffs of smoke coming out, Tony engaged and gave me a chance.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I later learned gave me a chance to get down to the to the end of the hallway.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So he had to, the bad guy had to pick figure out which one of us he was going to shoot at.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um Tony ended up getting shot three times.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: He took a round directly to his vest, um, right by our badge.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Our badge was a star, and the bullet blew right in between the uh the V of the star.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, hit him in the chest.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: While he was engaging, he took another round directly to his wrist of his gun hand, and the bullet went into his wrist, impacted, went all the way down and blew out his his elbow.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the second round that that hit Tony, and he stayed in the fight.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: That was his wow.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was his gun hand.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: With the with the pistol or with the rifle, do you know?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: With a pistol.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um he carried a SIG 9mm.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh a third round actually hit him on his baton.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: We carried um collapsible PR-24s with the with the steel.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, it was my favorite.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: So and ours had the steel core.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it hit the his baton and blew around the baton, so his baton saved his life.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Tony was engaging and firing from the bathroom area, and he was bleeding so much that when I engaged, Tony took a step back into the bathroom and he dumped his magazine and reloaded.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned this afterward because from one of our one of the SWAT operators who's who was a good friend of mine.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: We we worked as sergeants together.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And this guy was a hard ass.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he was if you think of SWAT, this is the SWAT guy.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: So one day I we're talking and talking, and we're he he was like, Hey, you know what?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: The we're we were talking about seeing real bad stuff or whatever, and he brings it up, he goes, You know, I almost quit one day.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, why?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Because of your shooting.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What the fuck did I do, man?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: You you guys, you guys saved me.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he said, When I went into that house and I saw what happened to you, and I saw your blood on the floor, and I went into that bathroom, and Tony had dropped his magazine, and the entire top of the bathroom sink was covered in his blood, and it had pulled into the the uh the sink, and he goes, Tony, he goes, I can imagine Tony reaching down, grabbing his next magazine, slamming it home, and the last thing he did is looked up and sees himself in the mirror, bleeding out, and he still decided to get back into the fight.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty cool.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Grown man stuff.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I get goosebumps just thinking about that.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: That Tony will lie to you and tell you that I saved his life.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: I Tony saved me.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Tony is a he's a hero.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: He saved my life that day.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he got back into the fight.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this so we were trying to engage the the suspect.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I remember yelling down the hallway, can you get to me?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can you get to me?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can you get to me?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it seemed like forever.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed like it was hours.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: The walls are blowing up.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a lull.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it seemed like it lasted forever.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he's still with the machine gun at this point.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it had to be like a couple seconds, but it seemed like forever.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember trying to stand up and get out of the way, and I couldn't.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: The round that impacted me had um it had hit my um my abdomen to the point where my left leg wasn't working, and I couldn't get it to work.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was paralyzed at the time.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to stand up and I can't.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm sliding around on this linoleum floor, and I can't figure out why the hell I can't get up and why the why the hell I'm sliding around.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept checking myself, and I thought I was okay.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: My I never I was hit and I never saw any any red.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I never saw the blood on me.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I was feeling around thinking, okay, I'm good.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but my leg's not working.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, and your brain does stupid stuff, man.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I was like, okay, you can't stand up, deal with it.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then just it was just like, okay, move on.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I work through it and and work through it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I, you know, there's pictures now where my hands are covered in blood, my my shirt is soaked, my pants are soaked, and I'm bleeding out through the back.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I never saw it.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if that was your way of staying in the fight of committing yourself to I'm okay, I'm okay, is not if I don't see it, I'm okay to keep fighting.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if I don't see it, it didn't happen.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I'm just trying to think through kind of like you being above and looking down, and then you went back to first person, like, I'm okay.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, shut up and get back in the fight.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm okay, and let's do this.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And well, Tony got down to where I was at, and he he kind of slides into me.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there was there was blood on the floor, and so we we went sliding across the linoleum entryway, and we couldn't stand up if we wanted to.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my leg was foobar, and Tony wasn't getting up.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he starts the the bad guy starts shooting the machine gun again at us through the walls, so the it's blowing right at waist level, it's blowing up right above our heads.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's looking back on it, there's so many things that happened just right.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: That if if it would have gone, like if we would have stood up, we would have been cut down right there.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I remember having this really quick, you know, you okay, you're right, you're right.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, he's he's like, Yeah, we gotta get out of here, we gotta get out of here.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the front door is like right behind us.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember trying to stand up, and I just I couldn't, my leg wasn't working, and I collapsed right out the front door, like fell face first.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And everything was slow.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember turning around and trying to maneuver myself, and Tony was coming out the door and he was moving to my right and just getting out of the way when I saw the bad guy coming around the corner.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he had the machine gun in his hand, and he was he was looking down at it as he's coming around the corner.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's like doing something with it.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's fucking around with he's m messing with it.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: And also known as manipulating.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: The word he used also means manipulating.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So he's he's messing with the the rifle and he's looking down, and I see him and I got him.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I I start to re-engage and I I start firing right at him, right through the the doorway.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I s I see him look up and do that oh shit, and his his uh shoulders come up, and he goes back around the corner of the hallway.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel like you got hits on him at that point?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I thought so.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I saw him flinch, I thought I hit him.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but like you know, later on they they asked, I'm jumping ahead, but the they asked us if we wanted to know which one of our, and we both said no.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they never confirmed it.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: So for my peace of mind, I have I'll talk about that in a little bit.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: But so that was the last time I saw him, and I knew my partner, I knew Tony had gone to my right.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Outside, outside.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're out we were outside of the house now, and I know Tony was okay, and he's out to my right.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was I was mad, and I knew I didn't want this fucker to get away.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I knew I I wanted to go, my partner was over there, so I was gonna go to the left because I didn't.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Want him to get out.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to stand up again and I couldn't.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was I was mad.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why the why the fuck isn't my leg working?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we have this the um flashlight pocket on the on the back of our our patrol pants.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like on the back of the thigh.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they call it a sap pocket or a flashlight pocket.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I stuck my hand in that pocket and I grabbed all I turned it inside out and I grabbed the material and wrapped it around my hand and kind of moved my leg around.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of half-assed worked.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to kind of get up and I half stumbled, half fell my way across the lawn to my my patrol car.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna say tactical roll.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds a lot better to her tactical.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there was nothing tactical about it.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I it was it was butt ugly.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: I tried curly my bad.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Tactical retreat.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I ended up leaning on my patrol car, and um it was it was a um Jeep Cherokee, and I love that car, man.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody else wanted it, and that was a big deal for us because if nobody drove it, then that meant I could drive it all the time.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of my own car.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Still just you and Tony at the scene at this point.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Still, and you know, if you would ask me, I would have said it's been eight fucking hours before all this happening.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I remember leaning on my patrol car looking at the house, thinking, I'm way too close.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had that flashback to the academy when they're teaching you the difference between cover and concealment.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm I'm getting on the radio telling my guy, stay away from the house, he's got a machine gun, and realizing he's got a machine gun, I'm too close.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's uh across the street, and kind of behind, there's a a big tree and some um parked cars.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm still checking myself thinking I'm okay.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I I keep looking down, but I don't I don't see anything.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, your leg's not working, all right.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've been in the shooting, you know, you need Tony's over there, you go go over there and and take care of this.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember turning to go that way and I I just fell.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm in the street now and I'm done.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I've got I've got nothing left.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I was I was tired.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had I when I tell you I had nothing left I had nothing.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: From blood loss or from the emotion and the entire um brevity of the of the shooting or both, or I I don't know.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I was I thought it was okay, but I couldn't I had no strength.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: I had no energy and I I I don't know the words to accurately explain how done, how tired I was.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to get up and I can't.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm pushing and I'm I'm trying to trying to get up, and I remember switching my hand, I'm right-handed, I switched my hand to my my gun to my left hand, and I held it up at the house, and I just took my arm and I started to crawl across the street.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are you exposed in the street?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: No cover at this point.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was just asphalt all the way across.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm using my right elbow to dig and pull myself across the street.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I make it to the car and I climb up on the car, and I'm on the on behind the trunk of that car, and I got my gun out, and I get back to my my right hand, and I'm pissed.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: I am I am so fucking angry right now.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not because it's not what you think.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I am I am so pissed off because this was a fucking Nora call, and now how the hell am I gonna write this?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: What the f how the hell am I gonna write this?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was pissed off about.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a child warfare call and now I've been in a raging gunfight.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like how the hell do I explain that?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I am such a a shit magnet that how how am I gonna write this, you mother?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's he's still inside the house at this point.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the last thing that I saw was he was inside the house uh in the he had gone around the the uh hallway.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you're crossing behind a car, Tony is where Tony went to the so as you're looking to the house, Tony went to the house on the the right.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the front left of the house.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: So he has the he had the um the front side covered, I had the side and back covered.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or the front side.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: At any point in time, do you remember ever hearing the because at the beginning of this, there was a child laying on the bed.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do you ever did you ever hear the kid screaming?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: Or is this so much, just so much that went on?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, um, I don't remember hearing the kid at all.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Later we had learned when after the uh everybody got there, uh later we had learned that while he was shooting at us, the brass was flying onto the bed and hot brass was landing on the baby, and the baby was crying and had had burn marks um from the brass.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: But other than that, the baby was uninjured.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: Back to you're over the hood.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my You're angry.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pissed.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: My the the first person that got there on my side was um uh my sergeant, um Sergeant Pike.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was awesome.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: He he was driving in, rolling in hot for the Galactica.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was this big ass um excursion that was outfitted with everything, and he comes tearing ass around the corner.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I I swear, if if I wasn't shot and laying down, this would have been really cool to see because the the brakes were there was so much smoke on the brakes that there's this big cloud of smoke.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the only I see I see him running through this cloud, and he's holding on to his patrol rifle, and he's got his radio in the other hand, and he's running through the cloud, and I'm like, Yeah, that's awesome!
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: America.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: America.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and he runs right by me and he smacks me on the back really fucking hard.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, ow.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he he jumps and lands in this, like, you know, the little army pose where the the the rifler he lands in that pose and slides to the front of the second car, and he starts yelling, stick your head out, fucker, and I'll end this.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember seeing that going, I'm good, and you know, my my sergeant's here, I'm good.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I hear him get on the radio and say, I've got two hit, they're bad.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: I need I need EST or SWAT and our ambulances.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't know at the time, but uh another detective had rolled up on the other side and just grabbed Tony and threw him in the patrol car.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they had him and he was already in route by the time the sergeant got to me.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my radio took that round.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I wasn't hearing the transmissions.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I didn't know he was taken.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when my sergeant said that, I started getting worried.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: And who's if Tony's bad and he says there's two bad, who's the other one that's bad?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and is he talking about me?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and it it it's it sounds really stupid, but I thought it was okay.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the next two guys that came running up to me were um a guy named uh Dave and um Eric.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I have my gun out, and they're both yelling at me, put your gun away, put your gun away, we gotta get you out of here.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm fighting with them, saying, Leave me alone, let me leave me alone.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going anywhere, I'm staying, I'm okay.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh and I said, Look, I'm okay.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they're telling me, Um, Curly, put your gun away, Curly, put your gun away, you know, put your gun away.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm fighting with them, and they're trying to grab my hand, and I'm um hitting them away.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Dave looks at me and he goes, and he he calls me by my first name and he goes, David.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, because you know, cops, you never know, you never use your first name.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a parent moment when your parents use your first name.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, and and that that snapped me out of it, and I looked at him, and he he he put his hand on my gun and he goes, You need to put your gun away.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, okay.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Am I grounded?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I looked at my hand and I was shaking.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I was like like, holy hell, what is that?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't holster it.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I started I started to get scared that something's wrong.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Eric Eric had to grab my hand and and help me get my gun holstered, and then they grabbed me and ran me down to the patrol car.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so all this is happening, and there's some there's some really funny crap that happened that I can look back on now and laugh at.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Eric and Dave are holding me and they're running me to the patrol car, and they got their guns out and they're pointing it down at the bad guy down there, and other cops are responding and whatnot, and they're carrying their partner to the patrol car.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we get to the car and they start slamming me into the door saying, Get in the car, get in the car.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: None of them are looking at both of them.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are looking at the bad at the bad guy's house, and they're telling me to get in the car and they're pushing me into the patrol car.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I can't open the door because it's locked.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm telling them, the door's locked, the door's locked, and they're they're nailing me into the patrol car.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to open the door when I'm getting rammed into it.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they stop and they're like, Oh crap, they both let go of me.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Dave runs around the front, Eric runs around the back.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stand up.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm falling, and they both stop and they're like, oh crap, and they both run back to me.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: And now Eric grabs me, Dave runs around, it's not his car.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he's in, he's, you know, just a patrol car that somebody left.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: So he's reaching in, he's hitting buttons to try and unlock the door.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And this was that the the Chevy Caprice, the chamu, the big butt ugly looking shamu that drove really good.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's really fast.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's Clint's favorite car uh for the record police car.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had it was butt ugly, man.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: We had the little wind, the the uh wind fenders for the back tires.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: That that made it exceptionally ugly.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was ugly.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: So Dave's trying to open it up.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: He can't, he ends up rolling the window down.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Eric is still holding me up with one hand, looking at the the house.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: He sees the windows rolling down, so he shoves me in through the window.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Dave realizes he can't open the door, so he reaches across, opens the door.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm teeter tottering on this open door.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Eric slams it, and I go in headfirst into the car.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, you know, if I wasn't shot, this would be really freaking funny, guys.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of messed up.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: You guys are no paramedics.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: Let me explain.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you know, we we all had a really good laugh afterward, but still.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: So is the bad guy ever popped back out again during any of this time?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, we find out.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: So later, later on, they um our EST SWAT team goes there, and we got conflicting reports that um he had gone out the back, and there was a there was a you know a cop killer with a machine gun in the neighborhood.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we didn't know for sure.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'll fast forward a little bit.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: There is after the shooting, about 20 minutes after the last shots were fired, um, there was a teenage kid in the house.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: He actually came out 20 minutes after the last shot was fired.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he said, he comes out with the uh baby in his hand and he's holding the baby by the leg, and he comes walking out the front door and he sees all the cops surrounding it, and he's yelling, he's flipping off the cops, and he's yelling, fuck you guys, you fucking kill them, you pigs and shit bags, and he spikes the baby on the front lawn.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he ends up getting taken into custody.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's a team that forms a rescue squad that goes up there, grabs the baby, because we didn't know if um Peter or if the bad guy was still alive in there.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and through the SWAT team interviewing him, he said, Yeah, he's in the house.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's he was the kid sees him on the bed loading a shotgun before he comes out.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: And according to the kid, um Peter's he's rocking back and forth, his eyes are kind of rolling in the back of his head, and he's he's he's doing that um agonal breathing, the the the the death rubble.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: The death rule.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he's trying to load the shotgun.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they they're pretty sure he's still in the house.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: EST fills the house with hot gas, cold gas, pepper spray, just they anything and everything.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Everything.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh nothing happens.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: They went in about five hours later and found uh the bad guy deceased from our return fire.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: So he was he had slid off the bed and was still holding the uh the shotgun when they found him.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the bad guy got I got hit in my lower left um abdomen.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: The bad guy got hit in the exact same space on the right side.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: We had mirror injuries.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um he ended up dying and bleeding out, and I didn't, I got, I was life flighted to uh to Loma Linda Hospital in one of our our major trauma centers, and I survived.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: Tony survived.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: Tony survived.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um I told you he got shot in the wrist and the the bullet went into his wrist and traveled down and blew out his elbow.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I learned a lot more about wound dynamics than I ever wanted to learn.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um a bullet will take the path of least resistance.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when the bullet went into his wrist, it had went into his uh vein, um, made a a hard right turn, traveled all the way through the vein to his elbow, and then popped out his elbow.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they ended up doing a stitch and a band-aid on his wrist, a stitch and a band-aid on his elbow.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: He had some minor swelling, and but overall, no no major, no major injuries.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I tell you things happened just right, it's amazing that things happened like that.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: So Tony's fine.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um he retired uh a few years before I did, and he went back to patrol.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I ended up I was off work for 11 months.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had to learn how to walk again.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I went back to patrol and finished 27 years.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: Any idea how many total rounds fired in that three or four-minute gunfight?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there was over 197 rounds fired um by the bad guy in that round.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: In that round, that's just the bad guys' rounds?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's just the bad guys' rounds.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I carried a nine millimeter Beretta with 46.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I fired close to I I fired 44, had uh a couple rounds left in my magazines, and um Aguirre fired 45.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: So Wow.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you were down to two rounds.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I had no idea.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: No idea.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we we talked before we came on about some of the um human performance factors that go into, and you talked about everything with slow motion.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um auditory exclusion, um the visual narrowing or tunnel vision, um seeing rounds and puffs of smoke and slow motion and all of that.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you you told me before we came on, and we were talking about the importance of understanding when you go work one of these, that your truth of what happened is your truth.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean that's exactly how it occurred, but when they got out there to this day, you almost you have no recall that you reloaded, and you later learned that absolutely.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: They when we were doing the the the um the interview for the investigation, they had asked me questions and I was shocked.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they were they were saying, Hey, when you reloaded, I didn't reload.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you did.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I I argued with them and they they had to prove to me that I did.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: But you would have sworn.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was the your truth.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: You did not.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I did not.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um there was and you reloaded twice, right?
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you combat reloaded twice.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I had I had taken my magazine and st and shoved him in my belt, which I didn't know I did.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you combat reloaded because you didn't shoot it dry because both your empty well, they weren't empty.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: Both rounds had one round remaining, so you combat reloaded at some point.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't remember any of that.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they they would tell me these things, and I was like, I when did I do that?
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they asked me questions.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, did you did you go around, you know, did you open the the screen door?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I argued with them that no, there wasn't a screen door there.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, there wasn't.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they showed me pictures, and I was like, oh no, yeah, look, there's a screen door.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: On the front, there was a screen door.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: On the front door, yeah.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: I because uh I I didn't I didn't see that.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't important, didn't matter.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: But when I was the house green or yellow, couldn't tell you.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was in a gunfight at a house, couldn't tell you what color it was.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was there was um the lights, there was no lights in the house.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: So but it was bright, it was like bright as day.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I am lighting, I guess.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was just like regular, it was during the daytime, so whatever light comes in, but it was it was bright, like I could see in there.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I swear when when I when I was outside and I was on the ground, I saw my slide come back.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: I saw uh my brass flying back, and I saw the puff of smoke and the flame, and I saw my round go downrange.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: I swear I saw that.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we hear that a lot.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: Working these, you hear that a lot.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I it I know it's physically impossible, but I saw it.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've had guys tell me I literally watched my round make a defect in the bad guy's shirt and saw the hole, and I knew then I was making good shots because I could see the round penetrating the material, which bullets going pretty fast, it's hard to watch that.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: But they said they watch every round, or I've heard them say the casing.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: I could literally see in my peripheral the casing spinning, just the the huge craziness of what the human brain and and the performance that goes into um and and often when I'm teaching, we were talking offline.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: Your memory is like a I liken it to a movie reel, and you said the same thing, which was eerie.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: Your memory is a movie reel, and everything that occurs is a slide, a scene in that reel.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you may have arrived at the house, bad guy grabbed a pistol, I felt like I got shot, and then I got back in the gunfight.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a whole lot of scenes in between there that you may or may not ever return again.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it before we came on, Dave said it feels like scenes that I remember a few of them, but some of the scenes are missing, interconnected.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we talk about REM cycles of sleep after you've been in a shooting REM sleep, specifically REM sleep, is when your body minds that those missing slides and can help you fill those in.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: And some of those slides, I mean you've talked about it, some of those scenes of your movie you may never get back.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's been 20 years, and you said there's a few scenes still missing.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, one thing I people ask me, you know, do you does it still bother you?
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: I having the ability to talk to other cops helps me.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like therapy for me to to be able to talk.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the one thing that uh that to this day still like still bothers still gets to me is um Sirens.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I hear sirens.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like when you're rolling code and you're in the patrol car and you're rolling code and you're like, ah, get the hell off the way.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're rolling.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's I was bleeding out, and they my partner was so freaked out that I was gonna die.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: He stopped in the middle of the highway and saw a fire truck.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: So he stopped at the fire truck, was like, hey, and they so they just threw you and went, threw you in a squad and went.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they pulled me out and it was a fire truck and an ambulance, and they started, they just were like, Oh crap, and they worked on me right there.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: They shut the the thing down and they worked on me right there.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they put me on the stretcher, they cut all your clothes off, which is kind of rude because I'm naked and in the freaking How I in the middle of the highway.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: They tried cutting my gun belt, and I was like, Oh, hell no.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I and you cop doesn't ever want to be naked in front of a fireman.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, they get jealous.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um the uh so they they they strap you down and all that, and they're the the cops or the firemen are my friends, so they're all nervous.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the paramedics I work with too, and they're my friends, and they're trying to give me uh an IV and they're sticking me in the arm and it's not going through, and I'm like, ow, ow, uh and one of the guys that works at my station, he used to own an ambulance company, and he tells uh he tells them, you know, they're telling me, you can't feel that, you can't feel that.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and Gary goes, obviously he can.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you let me do that?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they while they're working on me, they tape, they put these blocks on your head and they tape and strap you down and all that.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't move, but I I can hear all of the units rolling code to get there.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the sirens coming from a long way away to where you know that it's coming closer, closer, closer, and then it goes away.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what is eerie to you now.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's what triggers me now.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: Which is odd because usually you like to hear that means the cavalry's coming, like you're safe, the cavalry's coming to help me.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the fading away, them going by and not stopping, or is it just the sirens themselves?
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just that whole thing.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I started I knew I was I knew I was hurt, and I knew by the looks on their faces, they were trying to be nice, but I knew it was bad.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew and they when they told me that, hey, we're gonna life flight you, I got really scared.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_02: So they parked right there, worked on you until the helicopter landed.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and I started having that internal dialogue is okay, don't die.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: Don't go to sleep, don't whatever you do, don't don't sleep, don't sleep.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: And just hearing, and I couldn't move my head because they they taped everything down, they got me ready to go in this thing, and they put them, you know, the oxygen on you.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's all I could hear was those units.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: And to this day, you get that certain pitch of that sound, and and we all know the difference between a cop siren and an ambulance and a and a fire truck.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you you know, any cop, you hear a siren, oh, something's going on, yeah, it's an ambulance, you know, or oh, it's fire truck.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: But if you hear a cop siren, you're like, ooh, ooh, ooh, something's up.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: And because I was I was realizing that this was bad.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I thought I was okay till then, and now I'm like, just don't go to sleep, just don't fall asleep, just don't fall asleep.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, it worked too, because I didn't sleep for like a friggin' month.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was okay now, you can go to sleep.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you were off about 11 months.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: How long did you spend the hospital?
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they actually got me out of there the next day.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was out pretty pretty quick.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the so the the the round that hit here, I had a trauma plate on and it it blew out to my right, um, and that didn't penetrate.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I never felt this hit.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_01: The the hit the hit where the bullet went in and curled my um, and I didn't know that it it hit my vest until later.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the doctor's telling me, uh, you oh well, yeah, you know, when the when the bullet hit you and it turned and it went up.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: If it was like three more millimeters or three more centimeters, that would have punctured this and you would have died.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, you can keep that shit to yourself.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, didn't need to know that.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but he's he's telling me, um, we're gonna, you know, it didn't hit um anything that we can tell.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: We did some exploratory stuff, we're going to leave it where it's at until um the swelling goes down.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna they're gonna do more damage getting it out than what out.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to go in later for that surgery.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the one that went in and blew out my back is what they operated on.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And my brother got there, the oldest, Pete.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he was on a motor and uh brand new, Harley, and drove three cities over to get to where the um hospital was at.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he actually, because I landed and they were wheeling me down, he actually met me there while rolling on a motor up there.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, destroyed the bike, totally destroyed the bike.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, never got questioned about it at all.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: But as they're wheeling me in, I see Pete running in the door, and he was on the same radio traffic or the same radio as I was.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So he heard it.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: He heard it and he knew it was me.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he heard the entire thing.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You talk to my brother, he goes, I heard my little brother getting murdered, and I heard you calling for help.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I wow nothing I could do.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So he gets there, and in true, you know, brother's form, as soon as I see him, they're wheeling me in.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I yell at Pete, don't tell mom and dad.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: True story.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Told him that.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Don't tell mom and dad.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_02: She bought me this gun.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Don't tell her, don't tell mom in the ammo.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: True story.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I think so.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_03: You've you've you've you've been through this experience.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I think that's what makes you a better field rep in in this profession since you've moved to Texas, since you know, retired from California.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you when, you know, because I've never been shot, not yet, at least, knock on the wood.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Clint, you've never uh been involved in in something like that.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't I don't think.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so I when when we do have situations where members are are injured in line duty uh and and we do respond to situations like that, uh, you know, what kind of advice are you giving these guys or what kind of you know mentally and and the and the and the rebound, physically and emotional, um can you kind of go into detail of of how your relatable situation in California, even though it's California, you you you still bleed the same in California as you do in Texas and kind of what that experience looks like.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I've had a couple of occasions to to talk to guys that have been hurt.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that that we all experience is the our partners, they don't know what to say.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they'll say something to fill that void.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell them, you know, it some cops get mad at that.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, you don't know how I feel, you don't know, you don't understand.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And guys will say, Oh man, I I I I know how you feel, and all that stuff.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I I tell them, you're gonna get mad.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get you're gonna get past that.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: But understand that they're they're gonna say things just to try and help you and take it like that.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing is that I fully believe is dude, you're never gonna get over you're never gonna get over this, but you are gonna get through it.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a choice to make.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that I learned that was really, really hard.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can beat yourself up for everything that you did and second guess and go back and and Monday morning quarterback.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: But what you have to do is realize you're looking at a book now, and everyone is looking at this book.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when it happened to you, they can go, oh crap, that really sucks.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they can flip forward to the next chapter and say, But it turned out okay.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: But when you were writing this book, you didn't have that chance to do that.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: You reacted, you did things at the time with the information that you had, and you survived.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So give yourself that break.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's awesome.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_02: That that chapter's written.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_02: You can't change it.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_02: But you know how to write, you can write your own ending to the book, to the story.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_02: And but you can't fix the chapter.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great, I love that.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the the thing that took me the longest to learn is you can decide how this is going to impact you.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't going to define you, it is a part of you.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is always going to be a part of you, but don't let it define you.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And for me personally, it sucked.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I lived the rest of my life knowing that I killed somebody.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I have people tell me all the time, well, you know, the the Bible says this and this and this.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I get that.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I told you they asked me, they asked both of us if we wanted to know what you know what our rounds did, and we both said no.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, for my peace of mind, that's something that I struggle with.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I never got into this profession.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I always knew this was a possibility.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought it would be me.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm the fat ugly kid that that graduated high school and became a cop.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, yeah, okay, I I I'm pretty good at officer safety skills.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I pay attention in classes, and I think I have some book smarts, but I never thought it would be me.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it can happen to you.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: It can.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a know-nothing call, a priority for check the welfare, and I'm fighting for my freaking life because this idiot wanted to kill me and my partner.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you just don't know.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_01: You don't.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So to dovetail on that, so you get in a gunfight with this gentleman, this suspect, and then you get contacted at a later date.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if you if you'll give, if you don't mind sharing, the cliff notes of how crazy, how deep the issue with this family.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a there's a lot of interesting side stories with this.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the questions I always get asked is is the baby?
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to the baby?
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Tyler, you had you had asked that, what happened to the kid?
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the kid's first name is Kouish.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's a um, he's a Ceboba Indian uh on that reservation.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I learned um working in in my department out there is we had several different um tribal lands that we had to deal with, but we learned about a law called ICWA, the Indian Child Welfare Act, that any uh Indian-blooded child in the absence of their parents must be um surrendered and raised by the tribes.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when when the bad guy um and I were in the shootout, that was his kid that was on the bed.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_01: He he was uh he was part of the tribe, and his girlfriend, um, her name was Crystal.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um she was a white, she was a Caucasian, a white girl.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_01: The family, uh Peter's family wanted the baby to live on the reservation.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And Crystal said, You guys are freaking nuts.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're not gonna get the baby.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the family had her murdered.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my shooting was on a Wednesday.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_01: They had her murdered on Thursday so they can take possession of the child, knowing that's how the law went.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they did.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: The when she was murdered on Thursday.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_02: So your shooting was on Tuesday, and two days later they had her killed.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was on a Wednesday.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_01: They had her killed the next day.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the gangster that they hired to kill her, um, he was uh he was a Sanha gangster.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: They had him murdered on Friday.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then the the gangster that killed that gangster, they killed him on Saturday and had we found him on the res on Saturday.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, that one incident had four are they kin to the Dentons?
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just asking.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Train station.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So so about the bad guy, the crazy story about the bad guy and his dad and his grandfather.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, one of the things that that I learned.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was at home for 11 months.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to learn how to walk again, getting surgeries and all that.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Sunbathing and enjoying yourself.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, eating bonbons.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the wound it took forever to close.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was it's you can imagine a hole the size of your hand going into your body like a like a cone almost, and it had to heal from the inside out.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's horrible.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so at I got tons and tons of, there was so much support.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: An entire, like the schools in the area, there was two elementary schools that went into lockdown.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the while they were in lockdown, the teachers, you know, were told what was going on.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the schools had the kids write thank you letters to us, you know, for keeping them safe.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I so I got hundreds of letters from these kids from the neighborhood, from all over the place, all over, from New York, you know, cops in New York, just they would mail it to the station, the department, they got it to me.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_01: One of these letters that came in was from Eureka, California.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, very nice, very eloquently written letter.
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_01: It says, You don't know me, we are connected in more ways than one.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I too am a uh retired, uh I I I'm retired, but I too am a deputy sheriff.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I too was involved in a shooting on the um involving the Sobova reservation, and uh our connection goes deeper than that.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was a deputy sheriff at the time when your bad guy's great-grandfather was on the reservation, and we got into an altercation, and I was in a shooting with his great-grandfather in front of his father.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So my bad guy's great-grandfather was killed by an RSO deputy in a shootout in front of his son, which was Peter's father, Peter Sr.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So fast forward, Peter Sr.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_01: is living on the reservation and decides to get into a fight with the tribal chairman, who is a boxing master, gets his butt handed to him boxing, goes home, gets his rifle, and brings Peter Jr.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_01: back to the house with the intent on shooting the tribal chairman.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_01: An RSO deputy shows up, um, stops the fight, gets into a uh gunfight, and ends up killing Peter Morillo's or Peter's father in front of Jr.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, fast forward to my shooting, I get into an altercation where Peter is killed in front of his son, who Kowish, and now Coish is of age and causing all kinds of havoc.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Current day.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, on the same reservation.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So three generations engaging RSO in a gun battle and and being killed in front of their sons.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_02: What a tragic legacy.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's surreal.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I read that, it I I I get goosemums just thinking about that.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's one of those things where I'd never wanted anything like anything like this to happen.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_01: But now it seems like I'm I'm part of this legacy, and I wish there was some way we could stop it.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Break the cycle.
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_02: So let me ask you something.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, two things.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned guys didn't know what to say to you, and uh uh to our listeners, watchers, watchers, to our watchers.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've been through three two through two critical incidents, not a shooting specific.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I I I can relate to what you went through where people didn't know what to say to you, and I got angry because they would say things to me.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's important because the other side of that is I had friends that were like, Well, I went MIA because I didn't know what to say to you, and I didn't want to say something stupid.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I would rather them say something stupid than to be MIA.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I can understand that because I'm I don't do well with words, and so I I would probably say something stupid, but you don't always have to say, I know what you're going through, but you can say, dude, I can't imagine, because I can't, I can't imagine what you went through.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_02: But don't say, Well, I understand, I know what you went through, I can understand because I haven't.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_02: But don't disappear.
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Find a way to engage absolutely without without disappearing.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I say something stupid every day.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I would rather someone be there for me and say something stupid than just go MIA.
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that that happens a lot.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_01: There was there was a a large group of people that that told me I didn't know what to do or what to say, so I just didn't say anything.
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you're for for for me, I I was so much in my head that you feel that absence.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to lash out at people.
• 1:25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and you're right, there's guys that don't know what to say.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the training now is so much better, yeah.
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when it comes to you know mental health and all of that stuff, and just being able to say, hey, hey, brother, I'm here for you.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and please don't get me wrong.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's things you can do and things that that people did for me.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I'd wake up in the middle of the night freaking out, having nightmares, and waking up from night terrors, and I look in my backyard and there's three cops sitting on my they're sitting on my um my picnic table in the back doing reports with their computers, and just hey Curly, we're here.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're parked in my driveway.
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I woke up Saturday morning and there's there's a cop out there mowing my lawn, got your lawn for you.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, awesome.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And just stuff like that, you know.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's there's ways to contribute if you're not good with words.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And every night there was when I was at home, the media was they they were at my house for so I stayed with my brother for a while.
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_01: But when I did go home, that agency, um, my my station was there, you know, every night.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_01: The sergeant would be there for something.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_01: They they'd I'd see him walking through the backyard just shining a flashlight.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's not like they're knocking on the door telling me, hey, we're here.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_01: It just they didn't know what to do, but they were they wanted to make sure that I was okay.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's I remember that it's 20 years, man, and I still get teary-eyed thinking about that.
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Those guys that were sitting in my backyard, you know, night after night after night.
• 1:26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I started leaving drinks and stuff out there for them.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's stuff like that, you know.
• 1:26:57
  unknown: Yep.
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's and and cops.
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_02: And being present doesn't have to be in words, but being present.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_01: There was a cop when I landed, I they life flighted me to another county, to San Bernardino.
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when I landed, there was a San Bernardino deputy that met the helicopter.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_01: He had no clue.
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, cop in another county just got really badly injured.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_01: He was at the hospital, the the helicopter landed, all these doctors are just doing all this other thing.
• 1:27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Then all of a sudden, this tan and green deputy comes up to me and puts his hand on my shoulder and says, Hey, brother, I'm here for you.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_01: No one is gonna hurt you.
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I got you.
• 1:27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I have no idea who this guy is.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he told me nobody is gonna get in to hurt you or your family while you're here.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's stuff like that.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_02: That just makes you feel secure and I'm safe.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that if there was one thing I would tell people is there's Things you can do.
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily things you can say.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um but don't go MYA, that's the worst.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_02: So second part I wanted to ask.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_02: To a young officer getting in this career field, you know, everybody says we're we're here to run to the sound of gunfire.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's easier said than done.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds really sexy on a recruiting poster, but you have been in the middle of a gunfight.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_02: You've had that moment of oh shit.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I am okay.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've still got a gun, I'm alive, so let's get back in the gunfight.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Let's take it back, let's let's get back on offense and and and share some violence.
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say, even if if you know, what was it what was it that made you consciously re because it the easy thing would have been to run outside and you know, hide behind an engine block and you know.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_02: What what made you realize I I'm still stuck in the house?
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to get in this gun battle.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's huge, man, and and it's it's really easy for people to say it and it's sexy on a swap poster, but what what would you say to to to officers?
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know I I when I talk to other cops, I tell them that number one, you can take a hit and you can survive.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the end.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_01: You take four.
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And y yes.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And trust in your training.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_01: There is stuff that I did I had no clue about.
• 1:29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think I you you and I were talking earlier, and you said um you you'll under stress you'll revert to your level of training that you'll rise to your lowest level of training.
• 1:29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that's that's a very eloquent way of saying that you're when you were under pressure, you're gonna do what you were trained to do.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when we all go through our careers and we're like, ah, we're gonna we gotta go qualify again, we gotta do this training, we gotta do that training.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and I get it, we're human, but take a make a conscious effort and take time out to actually be serious and train before you decide to to gaff it off.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because you never know when it's when it's going to come in handy or when it's going to save your life.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_02: On a concern for welfare call.
• 1:30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_01: So trust in your training.
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Know you can take a hit and make the determination now that you're not gonna quit.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I had nothing left when I was on the ground.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't I had to see my family.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had to see I had to see him and I don't know what made me get up.
• 1:30:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew I had to get up.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I if if there was one thing I could I would pass on, it would be that decide now that you are not going to quit.
• 1:31:13
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_03: You train like you fight.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_03: You fight like you train.
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it can happen at any time.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there there's cops that were parked in their car pulling into the station and getting ambushed, you know, cops that are walking in that that were sitting in a coffee shop having coffee and they're getting executed.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, I I love what General Mathis says.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's a remarkable story.
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I want to thank you for coming on here and telling everybody.
• 1:31:53
  SPEAKER_03: And uh hope it wasn't too boring.
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was not, no.
• 1:31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Boring.
• 1:31:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, getting shot four times and and uh 196 rounds, you know, flying on a call for service.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_03: With automatic weapons.
• 1:32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, with automatic weapons is far from boring.
• 1:32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Clint, you got anything?
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_03: We gotta do the rapid fire.
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_02: You got the rapid.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:32:12
  SPEAKER_03: Here we go.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_03: We want you to name your best cop movie or line from a cop movie.
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Best police car and best whiskey.
• 1:32:25
  SPEAKER_03: Or if you're not in whiskey, best drink.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Best drink.
• 1:32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm just glad that I said best line from a cop movie.
• 1:32:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've uh murdered that a couple times in the last episodes.
• 1:32:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's the uh John McClane Christmas movie.
• 1:32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there's there's so many.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think is he the one that says Yippie Kai?
• 1:32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that one.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think that my my favorite one is you know, is it's Christmas.
• 1:32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Have a few beers, we'll have a couple laughs, it'll be fun.
• 1:32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Die hard.
• 1:32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I like those.
• 1:33:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um Best Cop car.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm rolling the dice on this one.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_03: Don't let me down, Curly.
• 1:33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, see my so my favorite car was that Jeep Cherokee, but um I like the uh I like the uh the Fords.
• 1:33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Ford what?
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_01: The uh classic, the Caprice, or not the Caprice classics, the um Don't say it.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Don't say the C word.
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Crown Vic.
• 1:33:31
  SPEAKER_02: The crown victory.
• 1:33:31
  SPEAKER_02: The crown victim.
• 1:33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, uh we can cut this shit.
• 1:33:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's the crown vic everybody.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's awesome.
• 1:33:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's awesome.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_03: So those if those things came in four-wheel drive, I would, I would, I would own one right now.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love those.
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_01: When we knew that they were going out of stock, we bought like uh a whole bunch extra and stockpiled them in our in our agency.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Just endeared yourself to them with the crown of it.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Best drink.
• 1:34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like the Woodford Reserve.
• 1:34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Woodford Reserve.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's the second choice.
• 1:34:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna mention that.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_03: I may or may not have had that New Year's Eve.
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_03: What are you?
• 1:34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and just so everybody knows, I didn't start drinking really until I got hired here.
• 1:34:15
  SPEAKER_03: You guys introduced me to some some good some good liquor.
• 1:34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some good liquor.
• 1:34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Either that or we drive you to drink.
• 1:34:22
  SPEAKER_03: One of the two.
• 1:34:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're not really sure.
• 1:34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because of the stuff that I thought was good, you guys are like, why are you drinking that crap?
• 1:34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say that, is that's it's a it's a term of endearment.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_01: You guys the stuff I thought was good.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Just don't drink Angel's Envy.
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Angel's Envy at conference is not a good thing, and I'll have to share that on a separate episode.
• 1:34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man, well, again, I can't I can't thank you enough for coming on.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's just an absolute remarkable story.
• 1:34:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I'm glad you're sitting here with us.
• 1:34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's just uh it's amazing, really, that that that you went through that.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_02: You have a lot of value to add to members and to young officers, uh, what you've been through.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um, we have a lot of folks engaged in critical incidents, but the the depth and level of basing automatic weapons confined in a house, and um it's a hell of a gunfight.
• 1:35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:35:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh glad you're sitting here with us.
• 1:35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for the opportunity to do this, you guys are it's a good thing.
• 1:35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, man.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think the value is not with us getting to do it, it's it's the members getting to hear, yeah.
• 1:35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Hear the hear the hear the freaking good outcome from it.
• 1:35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:35:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this about wraps it up.
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_03: Clint, you got anything?
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I got that.
• 1:35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all hit that subscribe button uh on YouTube, you watchers out there or viewers and you listeners, be sure on Bust Routes to uh download whatever platform you'd like to listen to on the podcast.
• 1:35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm Tyler Owen, one of the hosts, here with Clint McNear and David Carlywicks.
• 1:35:50
  SPEAKER_03: As always, God bless you and may God bless Texas.