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Welcome to The Salt Line · The Salt Line

• speaker-0: So we've been talking about ocean policy, right? We do and we've been working in ocean policy for speaker-1: Talking. And we do that. We do that all. Yeah. ⁓ A few years. A bit just just a couple. Yeah. speaker-0: Not we're not that old. No just enough to know enough. speaker-1: For like and know what we know and know what Yeah. Ooh. And that seems like a know what we don't know. speaker-0: We don't know. good place. So what do we know, Maggie? Okay. First episode, no pressure. Let's start with the basics. Hi, my name is Sarah Winter Wheelan. I am an ocean advocate, and sarcastic eldest daughter, who has had a love for the ocean since I was like nine or ten. speaker-2: ⁓ speaker-0: I have spent the last year going back and forth between hope and despair and then hope again. All from you know, fill in the blank state of the world. So I thought, why not do the logical thing and start a podcast where I can talk about all of these things. Ocean-related, that And so Here we are. You are in the first episode of Salt Line, which is a new podcast meant to talk about all the things happening in the ocean space, then, now, and how we get to a better future once we get out of whatever this timeline is. So you might be wondering, why do we need another podcast? Why should I listen to you? Well, I think the ocean space suffers from what I call Midwest nice, which I can say because I grew up in the Midwest. Too nice to say what we're really thinking. And I think that's a problem. I think that has helped lead us to where we are now. We had a history of Of ocean conservation and ocean policy that has been inequitable. It hasn't been fair to everyone because not everyone's views and experiences have been taken into consideration when we create the ways that we protect the ocean. And my hope is that the Salt Line Podcast is the place where we can have those conversations with. The people out there who are trying to get us to that better place, those visionaries, the people like me who might have fresh ideas and lots of salty opinions to go with them. Each episode, my hope is that we get to talk to some of those people who are thinking about how we let go of the way we have governed and conserved the ocean. speaker-1: ⁓ speaker-0: And enter into a new, more just and equitable place where everyone is considered, which is going to lead us to a better, healthier ocean. Why why would you want to listen to me do that? Where does my credibility come from? Well, I have been lucky enough to lead the Healthy Ocean Coalition for the last 15 years. The HOC, as we love to call it, is a Coalition of people from around the United States. We are employees of ocean conservation groups. We are scientists. We are parents and grandparents. We are concerned citizens. The Healthy Ocean Coalition is for anyone who believes or understands that in order for humanity to thrive, we have to have a healthy ocean. That is how important the ocean is to. Our survival. So why call it the Salt Line podcast? Well, the Salt Line happens to be this physical place where freshwater meets saltwater, and there's different densities, and it creates this crazy physical line in the ocean where these two bodies of water meet. And that's kind of what I want this podcast to be about, is you know. Coming from where we've been and the structures we've created that have us entrenched in this certain way of thinking, meeting the future and the space in between, which is right now, which is how are we going to get ourselves from here to here? And it's this fluctuating boundary that's ever changing. Which to me is really exciting because it means we are still shaping the future. It's not decided for us. And that's how I keep myself trending towards hopeful. And so I hope you're gonna wanna come or come with me on this journey. I've never hosted a podcast before, but I have a lot of salty opinions. And I work with people who also have a lot of salty, fresh opinions. I think the best way to explain the type of topics and guests that we will bring onto Salt Line is to show you. We went to Washington, DC and attended a conference called Upwell, A Wave of Ocean Justice. This two-day conference was attended by exactly the type of big thinkers and doers that we want to highlight on the Salt Line podcast. I had the amazing opportunity to talk with a few of those folks and ask them some questions about we already have a bunch of ocean policy. Well so when we think about moving forward away from what we've had, what do we want to keep? What do we want to shed? And what do we need to build from scratch? I first got to talk with Mia Glover. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Who works for the Inland Ocean Coalition. And I really resonated with her words about how we change our human relationship with nature and the ocean. speaker-3: A lot of the systems we have need reframing and rebuilding. Even the term management or stewardship, which is more like ethical management, would imply that we're managing a system or that a system inherently needs to be managed. And as Indigenous people, we have always thought of ourselves as caretakers in that, you know, you're You're caretaking for the salmon, the salmon are caretaking for us. It's more of like a kinship framework. Yeah. And the thought of having this reciprocal relationship with your surroundings. And so I think even thinking from that you know, baseline of caretaking in tandem with the systems that we are living in. and working in ⁓ is a better framework to kind of build upon ⁓ for future policies. I don't really see much of that currently. speaker-0: I really appreciate Mia's take. The idea that by setting ourselves apart as caretakers, as managers of the ocean, really then disconnects us from feeling responsible for the impacts that we are having to ocean ecosystems. We don't want that dispassionate caretaker vibe. We need fully invested. in the impacts and what's happening to the health of our ocean ecosystem. To build on that, I then had a great conversation with Zanaji Artiz, who is an American climate activist, co-founder of Zero Hour, and now the fossil fuels policy advocate for the Natural Resources Defense Council. Zanaji beautifully built on Mia's take around our relationship with the ocean and nature, and took it a step further and talked about. So who should we be centering if we're going to put ourselves back into relation with the ocean and with nature? Who should and needs to be centered when we are thinking about better ocean conservation and ocean policy? speaker-4: I think it's it's also a question of like who ha who's in the room now that that really shouldn't be. And it's not we the people. Yeah. We are not in those rooms. It's people who are representing shareholders. It's big oil, it's big industry, and with wealth and privilege, they're going to places like the White House, like the Halls of Congress, and they're getting all the meetings that they want. And I think we need to be centering the local fishers, the people who rely on the water, ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-4: Native people. Yeah. Black and brown communities who are being the most polluted in the nation. Yeah. And instead of putting profit first, putting people first. speaker-0: Zanaji's ideas really stuck with me, and I felt that again when I had a chance to talk with Alexia Best, who works for Oceana as the senior campaign associate, and is also an alum of the Healthy Ocean Advocacy Academy. For me, Alexia really hit home the idea of sometimes we like to talk the talk, but don't always walk the walk. speaker-1: While I said that there's been a spirit of inclusion, actually including people, coming from the bottom. A lot of the policies that are made, a lot of the conversations that are had, or the decision makers or the people in those spaces going to the communities and saying, this is what you need to do. Right. This is what we want to see, and it's not really serving the communities. And a lot of big organizations that are there to help are also somewhat guilty of this. Yeah. ⁓ So having the people on the ground coming to the table and saying, these are the things that we're interested in, these are the things that we have seen the need for. and that looks like different things all over the country, all over the world. speaker-0: I really love how Alexia is trying to speak into existence the centering of communities and the decentering of top-down decision making. And it isn't just decision makers that we should be decentering. It's other entities and pieces of the ocean. governance, ocean policy community. When I spoke with Maggie Austal, who is an ocean conservation and policy professional, who I've had the joy of working with for many years, Maggie was really able to put into words the way that I've also been thinking about how we should really be flipping the script ⁓ in how the ocean conservation community shows up in this effort as well. speaker-1: groups that have that have you know the the the groups that have been around in the conservation movement without enough ⁓ equity or diversity need to support giving way having people and leaders and diverse voices centered and leading. speaker-0: I really do believe that this is central to truly change our community's relationship with ocean policy and how we go about creating better and more just ocean policy. So so far we have spoken with Sanaji and Alexia and Mia. They've really centered their ideas and thoughts around how we need to reframe our relationship with the ocean in order to better create the governing structure that we want to see that centers communities that have been purposely left out and disenfranchised. But what about the fact that we have Decades upon decades of existing policy structures that are in place right now. What do we do with that? Can we utilize any of it? Should we wholesale, get rid of big swaths of it? Maggie and I talked a lot about that actually. ⁓ we talked about how existing laws like the Endangered Species Act and the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act are these bedrock environmental laws that have Done a lot of good for the ecosystem, but haven't done enough good. And that is in large part because of how and whom has been implementing these laws and creating the regulations. I've been working in ocean policy for long enough that I can remember decades when we were coming up with Roadmaps for what ocean policy should look like? And we've done that. So the question that I think I'm gonna leave us with to explore in future episodes is what does a roadmap for the next 20 years look like? And how do we make sure that we take these ideas that Maggie and Zanaji and Alexia and Mia have helped lay out for us into plans and then implementation? Over the next twenty years. Well, that's it. We have survived the first episode of the Salt Line. Thank you so much for listening and for coming along on this journey with me. Until next time, stay salty because you know I will. speaker-2: The Sot Lane is hosted by Sarah Winterwheelan, produced and edited by Matt Cardona at Coyote Studios. Our theme song is Out of My Head by Lettra. This episode was written by Sarah Winterwheelin. Thank you to our guests for taking the time to join the conversation, and to all of you for listening. If you'd like to support our efforts, please share our show with your community. It really makes a difference. This is a Healthy Ocean Coalition podcast. You can learn more and how to support by visiting HealthyOcean Coalition dot org or find us on most social media platforms.