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9: Andi Man's Story · The Infertile Diaries

0:00
SPEAKER_00: What do you do when you've prayed the same prayer for so long?
0:04
SPEAKER_00: You're no longer sure you have the strength to pray it again.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: We read about great men and women of the Bible who waited, Joseph in prison, Hannah weeping for a child, Moses and the Israelites wandering through the wilderness.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: But we read their years of waiting in a matter of minutes.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: We turn the page, and there's the promise, the breakthrough, the redemption.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: But when it's your story, you don't get to turn the page.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: You have to live every unanswered prayer.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: And what happens when one year becomes two and two years become five?
0:48
SPEAKER_00: And then five years become nearly a decade.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there is beauty in the waiting.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: There's a deeper dependence on God, a refining of our character, and a faith that's forged in the fire.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: But there can also be profound exhaustion because there are no shortcuts through the wilderness.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the waiting doesn't feel holy.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: It feels like abandonment, isolation, desolation.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: So how do you keep living a full and meaningful life when the ache for a baby is palpable with every breath that you take?
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Our guest today, Andy, is no stranger to grief, suffering, or waiting.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: At just 23 years old, she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Then at 24 years old, she became a widow.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: She eventually found love again and remarried, but now at 42, she's endured an eight-year battle with infertility.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: And still, Andy creates beauty.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: She's an artist, a photographer, a home designer, and a singer.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: She is a woman whose strength was not born from an easy life, but forged through everything that she has survived.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Today we're stepping into the tension between hope and heartbreak, faith and exhaustion, surrender and longing, and ultimately waiting and redemption.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: This is an honest conversation about how to keep trusting God and how to remain fully alive when the answer to your deepest prayer is still.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: We discussed all this and more.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Infertile Diaries.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: This isn't just a podcast.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: This is your place.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: And these are your stories.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: A place of heartbreak to hope.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: This is the Infertile Diaries Podcast.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: So I love following your account and have, you know, followed along over the years.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: You're very creative.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: You love photography.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: What else?
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're a singer?
3:49
SPEAKER_00: I was reading about that.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: No professional singer.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Like that means she got paid for it.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: So, like, what's your favorite song to sing?
3:58
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to sing right now, but just well, I sang like RB soul music.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: So that's amazing.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that was my past.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, I still sing.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: I love music love, but not professionally at all anymore.
4:13
SPEAKER_03: So, but that was like my first um, I guess, career as a teen.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty incredible.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: So, did you ever like make a record or we can like do something?
4:24
SPEAKER_03: I got actually got signed to Sony when I was 19 years.
4:27
SPEAKER_03: Did you really album and everything?
4:30
SPEAKER_03: I went to LA, Atlanta, recorded a full album, and I was gonna have like a single come out when I was uh 19, around 2000.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: I forget the year now.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: It's been a while, but it's been a long time.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it never due to like management issues, I had to get out of the contract and crazy stuff.
4:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but then it was over and I went back to school after that.
4:50
SPEAKER_03: But I was very confused and lost for a while.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: So was this like pre-Mandy Moore or like post-Mandy Moore?
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Because she was kind of our heir.
4:56
SPEAKER_03: Mandy Moore.
4:56
SPEAKER_03: I knew Mandy Moore.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: I know she went to Mandy Moore.
4:59
SPEAKER_03: I don't know why she was asking to touch the mic.
5:02
SPEAKER_03: It was amazing.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: Um but yeah, but in Orlando, if you guys remember, back in the day it was like the pop central.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: Oh, for sure.
5:11
SPEAKER_03: So everyone, if you wanted to be a pop singer, you lived in Orlando.
5:14
SPEAKER_03: You guys know.
5:14
SPEAKER_03: Um a lot of people that don't, they didn't live here, they don't know that.
5:18
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it was the Mecca for that.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I actually did a couple music videos.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Yep, there wasn't an Aaron Carter music video.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: That's not good.
5:27
SPEAKER_03: I have no boy fan there.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: Backstreet boy major fan.
5:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: One of my friends, um, dad was like one of the managers, so we were able, we were able to like meet some of the guys.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: So anyone as like a teeny bopper, you're like, this is the coolest thing ever.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I was obsessed with Nick Carter.
5:49
SPEAKER_03: And then I met him and it was just disappointing.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I know.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: It always is disappointing in real life.
5:55
SPEAKER_03: They're just a little bit smaller in person.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
5:58
SPEAKER_03: That's true, that's true.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: Anyways, but yeah, I sang, it was fun, and then I moved on with life.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: So you guys met kind of through Instagram and her creativity, but then you kind of introduced your infertility struggles through the same creative website, correct?
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Is that how it yeah?
6:19
SPEAKER_03: So I was um you know, I did my singing stuff and then I let that go, and then I got into photography, did I'm kind of going down my memory lane of like my career, and then I picked up the camera, did photography for a while, then I got into the wedding industry and did that for like 10 years, and then um, well, I guess I should go into like how I met my husband and my story, maybe.
6:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: And because I found you after talking about my struggles of infertility.
6:44
SPEAKER_03: Um, but so, anyways, I met my husband in 2017, dated for one year.
6:50
SPEAKER_03: I told him I'm, you know, I'm in my 30s and got to time.
6:52
SPEAKER_03: You need to propose to me.
6:54
SPEAKER_03: It's the year after year we're getting married.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: That's it.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: He's like, okay, opposite of me.
6:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, so he proposed after one year, we got married, we decided to elope and go to the big Sur in California.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: So we did that.
7:06
SPEAKER_03: It was really, really pretty.
7:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so after we got married, we came back, um, bought our first home in Winter Park, a fixer upper.
7:15
SPEAKER_03: It was our first home.
7:17
SPEAKER_03: We were super excited about that.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: And um, I started sharing um online our fixing up of the house, you know.
7:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, we didn't have a ton of money, so I was just kind of showing, hey, I'm doing this, I'm painting.
7:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I did everything I could do.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: Um, and about I think we decided like we were gonna give ourselves six months to just whatever, just work on the house and um, you know, not overthink about kids or anything.
7:46
SPEAKER_03: If it happened, it happened, you know, you know, whatever.
7:48
SPEAKER_03: Because you were 30 what at this time.
7:50
SPEAKER_03: I was so I got married at 32.
7:54
SPEAKER_03: I think 32, 33.
7:55
SPEAKER_03: I can't remember.
7:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:57
SPEAKER_03: So I mean, I wasn't like super young, but I wasn't old.
8:00
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't like you were like my exact time frame.
8:02
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: It's like identical.
8:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:04
SPEAKER_03: So I was like, okay, you know, I'm not 25, but six months is fine.
8:09
SPEAKER_03: And so, and I thought, typical, like all of us, the first try, I'm gonna get pregnant.
8:15
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna happen.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm gonna have six kids by 39.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, so after it was maybe like the third month, we got had gotten back from our honeymoon, and um, I woke up in the middle of the night with like major stomach pain, like horrible, horrible pain.
8:31
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know what it was.
8:32
SPEAKER_03: Um and long story short, I ended up going to the ER and I had a cyst rupture.
8:38
SPEAKER_03: And um, the doctor in the hospital was like, Um, do you want to have kids?
8:43
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm like, Well, yeah.
8:44
SPEAKER_03: Um duh.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: He's like, Well, I suggest you get follow do your follow-up at a fertility clinic.
8:49
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I was like, okay, um, that's fine.
8:52
SPEAKER_03: So I went to a fertility clinic.
8:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, I went to CRM, saw Dr.
8:56
SPEAKER_03: Loy, and um they ran all the typical blood panel and all that.
9:02
SPEAKER_03: And that's when I found out um that I had extremely low AMH.
9:07
SPEAKER_03: Um, it was 0.02.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: Um what's a typical?
9:11
SPEAKER_03: Uh you want to be for that age, you want to be above 1.5 at minimum.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: And that's, you know, but that's far.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: It was very severe.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: So he's like, you have POI, which is primary ovarian sufficiency.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: Now they they used to call it low ovarian.
9:26
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, there's so many words.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: They're changing the words all the time to make it sound less bad, but it's all it doesn't matter.
9:31
SPEAKER_03: It really doesn't matter.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: Um, like crap ovaries, it's fine.
9:36
SPEAKER_03: Um so uh I I got that diagnosis, um, and then my FSH was extremely high, it was like 65.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: And so I had no idea.
9:45
SPEAKER_03: Like we don't get checked for these things.
9:47
SPEAKER_03: I I had really heavy periods growing up, like when I was I got my period at like 14 and um super heavy, not pain, but a horrible flow.
9:56
SPEAKER_03: So I would just be anemic and like feel like faintish for like the first three days, and then you know, but that's all I knew.
10:01
SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, I just have heavy periods, but found out I had endo and then had a surgery there, did that um to clean up whatever they had.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: I had stage three out of four.
10:11
SPEAKER_03: But again, that's somewhat typical.
10:13
SPEAKER_03: It feels like, to be honest, I feel like everyone has endo or PCOS.
10:16
SPEAKER_03: I literally do.
10:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I feel like everyone has something.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: PCOS here.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's either or everyone has it, it seems.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: It's like we all have an acronym.
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're all in flames.
10:26
SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, or you're just flames.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but no one checks it, right?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: No one checks it, nobody checks it.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: Nobody, yeah.
10:35
SPEAKER_03: So you just get this bomb that blows up on you.
10:37
SPEAKER_03: And so basically at that meeting was um, you know, you have to either jump right into IVF or look into donor eggs.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: So it was sure it was that, you know, and so I just cried, lost my mind in that office, and um didn't understand why it was so bad.
10:55
SPEAKER_03: I just didn't understand my mom had babies easily.
10:58
SPEAKER_03: Nobody in my family suffered from infertility.
11:01
SPEAKER_03: It was again, it was the opposite of what I thought.
11:04
SPEAKER_03: I thought when I'm ready to have kids, be like that, you know.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: And so after that, we started the journey, and um, I didn't have anybody to talk to about this at all.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: Like at the time, we were the first out of our friend group to get married.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: So nobody was having kids just yet.
11:22
SPEAKER_03: But I didn't also have anyone that was struggling with it.
11:25
SPEAKER_03: So that's where I decided well, I'm desperate, I'm gonna get online and start talking about it because I don't know who else to talk to.
11:33
SPEAKER_03: And maybe if I talk about it, someone will talk back.
11:36
SPEAKER_03: And so that's how I found you.
11:38
SPEAKER_03: That's how I found so many other uh, you know, content creators or authors or speakers or whatever um talking about infertility or just girls sharing their stories.
11:48
SPEAKER_03: And so I started doing that along with my fixer upper content.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: Um and then we started um the journey.
11:55
SPEAKER_03: So we started uh to try to break it down.
11:58
SPEAKER_03: It's been a long time, but we did three IVF cycles at CRM.
12:03
SPEAKER_03: Um each cycle I pulled about one or two eggs max, and those two or one were tested every time and came back abnormal, so no transfer ever happened.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: And then we switched clinics after that.
12:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, not because we didn't like them, we just were like, let's just switch it up.
12:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Dr.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Loy was my doctor.
12:23
SPEAKER_03: He's wonderful.
12:23
SPEAKER_03: I love him.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: He's wonderful.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: Um, we just wanted to let's just keep changing and trying things.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: So we went to another clinic in Tampa and then did another IVF there.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: I actually stemmed the I stemmed the longest and I had the most eggs on that cycle.
12:37
SPEAKER_03: I had four, which was like a lot for me.
12:40
SPEAKER_03: And um, I was stemming for a little bit longer than I was comfortable, and I kept telling the nurse, um, you know, uh it's like day 12.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: By now I should be this was my fourth one, so I felt like I was experienced.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: And she said, No, no, you're fine.
12:54
SPEAKER_03: You too you took a shot to um to prevent early ovulation.
12:58
SPEAKER_03: I said, Oh, I don't feel comfortable, it feels like a long time.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: Anyways, long story short, I ovulated on the way to egg retrieval.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: No, and I lost all those four eggs.
13:07
SPEAKER_03: So that was horrific.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: And I knew, I knew I felt the pain, it was throbbing.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: I didn't listen to you.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: No.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, if you you know we know our bodies the most period.
13:18
SPEAKER_03: We we do.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: So that happened.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: That was a wash, that was horrible.
13:22
SPEAKER_03: I was devastated.
13:24
SPEAKER_03: We were both devastated because we thought this is like the best chance.
13:27
SPEAKER_03: There's four at least, you know.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that happened, and we were just like, we need a break.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: So two months after that, um, we we didn't do anything.
13:36
SPEAKER_03: I went to the bathroom one day to check.
13:39
SPEAKER_03: Um, I would always check for some reason.
13:41
SPEAKER_03: You you I'm sure many l listeners are gonna understand this.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: We're constantly checking the pregnancy.
13:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's sickening.
13:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's it's crazy how much we check.
13:51
SPEAKER_03: Stick it in the drawer, look at it.
13:52
SPEAKER_03: The amount of money we have spent, putting in light, I mean different lighting.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and then you want to see that faint.
13:59
SPEAKER_03: You definitely do.
14:01
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
14:02
SPEAKER_03: So I was going to work out a like orange theory or something, and I was like, No, I'll take a test.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: This was like normal for me, there's nothing special.
14:09
SPEAKER_03: And I did it, and I saw a faint line, and I almost fainted.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: I bet.
14:14
SPEAKER_03: So I saw a faint line, it came right quick.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, it wasn't even a squinter, it was a line.
14:20
SPEAKER_03: And um, my husband was on a work phone phone call, and he comes out, he sees me crying, he thought somebody died, and um, so any I was pregnant.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Um, but uh nine weeks in I lost the baby, so I had a miscarriage.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: Um it was hard.
14:35
SPEAKER_03: So I bled at home, I did not have a DMC, and I even had a contraction at home.
14:40
SPEAKER_03: It was wild, um, and super sad.
14:43
SPEAKER_03: So that happened, and then um after that we we took a little break and then um again went to another clinic.
14:50
SPEAKER_03: So this was now our third clinic, did another IVF, um, also failed, only had one egg.
14:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then we did another clinic.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: So we did a total of six clinics, six different things.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: So you could write some reviews.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, you know the thing or two.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we did that and we kept doing we did different protocols.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: We did just oral meds, light, you know, uh light gentle IVF is what they call it, and it gave it gave the same results.
15:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I also did uh a few PRP ovarian PRPs in New York City with Dr.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: Murhey.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, and um it did help my AMH a tad, um, but not significantly uh enough.
15:29
SPEAKER_03: And there's still up and down uh thoughts on PRP.
15:33
SPEAKER_03: Um but it was natural and what is PRP for the listeners?
15:38
SPEAKER_03: So it's they draw your blood, and when they spin your blood, you have a plasma in it, and it's enriched with tons of growth and strength for your they put that on your skin.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: People athletes will do it if they injure their knees, they'll stick it in their knees and they can run the next day.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: And so there's a lot of um uh like growth elements to it.
15:57
SPEAKER_03: So they think it can revive your ovaries by inserting PRP in your ovaries.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: Wow, so it's kind of not in a basis.
16:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's kind of it's it's kind of almost like an egg retrieval rather than taking out, they're putting in.
16:10
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
16:10
SPEAKER_03: And so you're out through like that catheter.
16:13
SPEAKER_03: Catholic or needle, same idea, but going in.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: So that they put PRP in both ovaries and then in hopes it that it usually lasts for two to three months after that, and you usually want to try natural, or some people do an IVF cycle then because they think that the eggs will more eggs will come, healthier eggs, all that.
16:30
SPEAKER_03: So, but it didn't really do much for me.
16:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, so we did our last cycle we did with another doctor um last year, actually.
16:42
SPEAKER_03: It was a doctor that took a chance because we had never had a transfer this whole time.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: And he said, Well, why don't we do one?
16:48
SPEAKER_03: He got one egg only, and he um didn't test it.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: He did a three-day fresh transfer.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: So he he transferred the fresh embryo and it did stick.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, but that also did not, it did not last more than I think it was about two weeks after my positive with that one.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: I also lost it.
17:10
SPEAKER_03: So that's where we're at.
17:12
SPEAKER_03: Um we've so six doctors, eight years of of six cycles, and um lots of shots and lots of disappointments, failures, crying, I mean, confusion, frustration, everything you can think of.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: Um all the while every single friend of mine having children write.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: Um on the you know, so it's been not to imagine the financial.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sounds like you traveled, you did two consults at six different.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: I just can't even imagine.
17:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, could you put like a number on it, maybe?
17:49
SPEAKER_03: I I don't, I do honestly, I don't know.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: Um thank God we have decent insurance.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: Um my husband works in the fertility world as well.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: He's not a doctor, he's uh I don't know how to describe it, but he's like an ex count account executive that he works with clinics and visits them and all that kind of thing.
18:08
SPEAKER_03: So not only are we in this, I always hear about it.
18:11
SPEAKER_03: It's in my world because I hear him, and it's a different side, but still I hear about all the new things coming out because he goes to come uh conferences, yeah.
18:20
SPEAKER_03: And so I'm always hearing about all this stuff all the time via him, and so it's it's kind of odd.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: And so did he start that while you were going through the journey?
18:31
SPEAKER_01: This was prior to you guys meeting, like he was always in this field.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: He was in another field when we met, and he actually um was working under multiple sclerosis when we met, which I have too.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: Which you were diagnosed with.
18:43
SPEAKER_03: I was diagnosed, yeah.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: I was diagnosed with MS when I was 23.
18:46
SPEAKER_03: So when I met him, he was actually in that department.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: That's why it was meant to be.
18:52
SPEAKER_03: It's so weird.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: This is a god thing.
18:54
SPEAKER_03: Okay, there was weird.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was strange.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: So, what were your symptoms at 23 that you were diagnosed with MS?
19:01
SPEAKER_03: Um, I was I was walking to like my apartment at the time and I had numbing in my calves.
19:07
SPEAKER_03: It sounds weird, but it was like a weird feeling in my calves, and then I was trying to open my door and my hands just kind of crippled like this.
19:13
SPEAKER_03: And I thought I was having a stroke.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know what was happening.
19:15
SPEAKER_03: It was out of blue, it was a hot summer day, which now I know um can exasperate your um MS symptoms.
19:21
SPEAKER_03: But I had no idea what that was, so I freaked out.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: Um went to my um neurologist and um they did all the tests that are needed for MS, and I found out I have lesions in my brain and cervical spine.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: And um, so after all that diagnosis, I that's what I have, and I've had it for a long time now, yeah, since 23.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: So I uh was on meds.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: I have not been on meds for eight years.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Good for you.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: So you're able to like reduce your inflammation?
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Because I've had friends with MS that like it hasn't progressed, like you can like live with it for a long time where it's dormant and it's not progressing.
19:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that thank God, like it hasn't progressed.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: I get an MRI once a year to make sure the lesions that I do have are not active or growing.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: Um but other than that, you know, I've had some moments where some were a little more active than, but when I started fertility, infertility the infertility journey, I stopped my meds um because they don't recommend well for me anyways.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, talk for anyone else, but for me anyways, it was it didn't go.
20:20
SPEAKER_03: So so but I haven't been back on anything because for me I'm I'm very not hippie, but I sure I'm very holistic and I and I I don't know how much I um trust some of these medications so far so good.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: Not saying I may not get back on them one day, you know, um but right now thank God I've been stable.
20:41
SPEAKER_03: I still have symptoms every day that I deal with and and everything like that.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: But you know, I try to keep my inflammation down, eat well, work out, stay strong, da da da da.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: Keep the stress down, but yeah, no, right.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: In fertility has not been good with MS.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: Um that's not a good mix.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: Um so it's it's been a journey, it's been a journey, and I'm still in it.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And so did you have any idea?
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Does MS affect um infertility?
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, does that go hand in hand at all?
21:08
SPEAKER_01: I just simply don't know.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, no, I haven't uh there's not too much evidence that it um that MS affect well, they say that a lot of people with autoimmune diseases um can have low ovarian reserve.
21:22
SPEAKER_03: They have found a little bit of a a pairing with that, but other than that, they actually say when you're pregnant you feel the best when you have MS.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: Because there's some sort of hormone that's released.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: I read about it, I don't remember, but no, there's and no one has it in my family either.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: I don't know why I have MS.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: They think it's like a virus that maybe never got healed when you were younger.
21:43
SPEAKER_03: There's so many theories on on MS, but I don't know.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: I don't know why I have it.
21:48
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I do.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: And so and it maybe it maybe has affected my ovarian reserve.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: I don't, I don't know.
21:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, but if I ask myself why I have that, I would lose my mind, you know.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Because well, I mean it's just amazing to me you kind of fought through ML MS and then you you're fighting through eight years of infertility, but you're still so like you still seem so positive.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Like what do you attribute your strength and your drive to keep going?
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Um Jesus.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Jesus.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: Um 100% my faith.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: Um not to say that I haven't yelled at at God and been mad at him and asked him why.
22:33
SPEAKER_03: Um and I'll start crying, so I need tissue.
22:36
SPEAKER_03: But my faith, my faith has been um the only thing that makes sense like through all this.
22:44
SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no.
22:46
SPEAKER_03: Um because none of it makes sense.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: And it feels like it never gets better, you know?
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: So like why me?
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, don't I deserve a chance?
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, like isn't it my turn?
23:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's frustrating.
23:01
SPEAKER_03: And so yeah, you get kind of confused, and um I've never doubted my faith or you know, the power of what God can do and that kind of thing.
23:14
SPEAKER_03: I've never done that.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: Um but the one thing that's with infertility, I think, is strange, is it makes you think about things that most normal women don't have to go there.
23:26
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
23:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:27
SPEAKER_03: And you get frustrated with that thought.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: You know, you're like, why do I have to think about this?
23:32
SPEAKER_03: No one's thinking about this.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, um, these big decisions that are so huge.
23:38
SPEAKER_03: Why do I have to think about them?
23:39
SPEAKER_03: Why do I have to like decide to do this or that with my husband?
23:43
SPEAKER_03: Like, how unfair.
23:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, but then I would have to remind myself that there's way worse.
23:49
SPEAKER_03: And I know that's not, you know, dumbing down my problem or anything, but you have to because you gotta get context or perspective or it'll eat you alive.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I've been depressed, I've been in super dark places, I've I've been in pretty bad funks, you know, but never to the point where I felt hopeless completely, but pretty close, to be honest, pretty close.
24:11
SPEAKER_03: Um, and thank God my husband's been like a rock for me um through it all.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it it is sad.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, it is a sad and hard journey.
24:20
SPEAKER_03: And you know, I think like going through it for eight years, you do kind of question yourself like, when when is it enough?
24:29
SPEAKER_03: You know, when do you stop?
24:30
SPEAKER_03: When do you stop?
24:31
SPEAKER_03: When do you or I I think right now I'm kind of in the spot where um learning to like surrender and not only surrender, but um really put your faith in like taking the next step.
24:45
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the hardest thing because you're holding it like a, you know, like tightly, you know, you don't want to let go of it, you know, because you want the control aspect and you can't control it.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, and to your credit, and to add context for the listeners, you were diagnosed with MS at 23.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: You actually lost your first husband, and then you've gone through eight years of infertility, so you are now no stranger to suffering.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was a young widow at 23, 24, and that happened, and that was absolutely horrific.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: And um, and I I thought, oh gosh, I'll never find love again.
25:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, but years later I did, thank God.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Um so it was about 10 years later because you met your now husband at 33.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, about eight, 10 years, yeah, around there.
25:28
SPEAKER_03: And um, so yeah, but yeah, I I know, I know grief for sure.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'm kind of sick of it.
25:35
SPEAKER_03: I bet you're worn out.
25:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm sick of it.
25:37
SPEAKER_03: Ready for sick.
25:38
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's gonna be it's gonna be your time.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, I do have a very personal question and you don't have to answer it, but um, you know, going through grief of losing someone that you've loved, like very close and infertility, how which encompasses you know, even your pregnancy that was two weeks or that you didn't get the eggs?
26:06
SPEAKER_01: How does that compare?
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, how would you compare those two griefs?
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Because they're both grapes.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a really good question.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: Um did going through something so harsh earlier in life almost help you like have the grit and yeah and dig in your faith, like yeah, it kind of like it's like how can it not, you know, but I think there the the griefs they come differently, like there was a kind of a final finality, kind of uh finality, is that a word?
26:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
26:37
SPEAKER_03: With the first um death, um, because that's not coming back.
26:42
SPEAKER_03: Um that life was lost, and um but with this one, it is sort of feels like uh a death, um, but you do have that hope of maybe maybe it can happen.
26:58
SPEAKER_03: Um but the grief still hits you to the core.
27:02
SPEAKER_03: It's it's still um it's hard to explain.
27:07
SPEAKER_03: It's different layers.
27:08
SPEAKER_03: It it just hits you differently.
27:11
SPEAKER_03: I I don't know how to explain it.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: I guess it's more like a feeling or an emotion.
27:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it did, yes, going through death at such a young age and seeing that and going through that trauma.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: Um it was definitely something that um equipped me to handle my infertility journey for sure.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: Um, not that it made it easier by any means, but I do know that you know, we are on earth.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: Um this isn't our home.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: And I'll cry again.
27:42
SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
27:43
SPEAKER_03: It's not our home, and I don't understand why things happen to certain people.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um or why it's harder for some people, and it seems like it's easier for other people.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Um but the one question that I have forgotten when I get there.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: I know is why do people that don't want to get pregnant get pregnant?
28:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but why have I never gotten pregnant?
28:08
SPEAKER_01: And I have two beautiful babies, but I've never gotten pregnant.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: And I that's one question I just want to ask.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: I I just want that answer.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: I hope I get it.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: I know.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: That's the one question I'm taking with me.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: There's one book that I love, and it's C.S.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Lewis, The Problem with Pain.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: And basically it kind of like talks about like if God is omnipotent, omniscient, and if he's in control of everything, then like why are like all of his creatures not happy?
28:35
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Like shouldn't he be able to help with some of this, you know?
28:41
SPEAKER_03: And I yeah, and I and I and I have thought about this a lot, and I think that there are, I do believe this, I do think there are chosen people on earth that God chooses to go through things for reasons.
28:53
SPEAKER_03: Um, it stinks that sometimes we you feel like, well, what the heck?
28:56
SPEAKER_03: What am I mean?
28:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't want it, but I don't want this purpose, but but in a way, it you know, you know, we're all three sitting here talking about this for a reason, and um this is not easy to do, not everybody can do this.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: And um so I do believe that God appoints certain people to speak um about hard times, about grief, and and to glorify him through that pain to know, look, like because of him, I'm still here, I'm still okay.
29:24
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that's important, you know.
29:26
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's like it's even bigger than what we're going through.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: And I know that sounds crazy because I have to tell myself that too, you know?
29:33
SPEAKER_03: There's purpose for your pain.
29:34
SPEAKER_03: There is, and even though it's horrible and hard and everything like that, there is.
29:39
SPEAKER_03: And you you just have to tell yourself that if you're still going through this and you're listening and you're still going through infertility and you've done everything that you can think of.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, there is an you know, the there's a reason for everything.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: Everyone says that, you know?
29:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and yeah, but dang it, there is, you know.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever read any of Elizabeth Elliott's books?
30:00
SPEAKER_00: She I've heard.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, she has some really great books.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: I love her book, um, suffering is never for nothing.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: And she lost several husbands.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: So her um first husband, he was a missionary and he was killed by the tribe that he was like going into.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Um and so then she got married again and he died.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And so like she has a story kind of like that, where it's just like grief upon grief.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: But like you listen to her talk or her read her books, and you're just like, wow, it's so impactful.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: But to your point, like I'm sure she wouldn't have picked her grief and all of that trauma.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: No, and and what a like a gift to feel not alone, you know, when you hear someone.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: And that's like when I started sharing the little that I when I had first started my journey and just getting little bits and pieces of DMs from women made me feel like, wow, I'm not alone.
30:52
SPEAKER_03: Like it just feels so nice.
30:53
SPEAKER_03: I well it doesn't feel nice, but it it just It's comforting, it's comforting, totally comforting, and um and that's why you have to talk about it.
31:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, and not everyone's comfortable talking about their infertility and their story.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: I understand that, but even people that are online creeping on your stuff will feel better, and that's fine.
31:11
SPEAKER_03: Creep all you want, you know.
31:13
SPEAKER_03: Like creep because I creeped and um it made me feel better.
31:16
SPEAKER_03: And I say peep, but I creep.
31:18
SPEAKER_03: I'd be creeping.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: Um under under the podcast.
31:26
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna do your your intro.
31:28
SPEAKER_03: No, please don't.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: No, don't so how has your husband handled all of this?
31:33
SPEAKER_00: Like what's his journey then?
31:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he's I'm not gonna say he's a regular guy, but he's he was a veteran, so he he was in the army, so he's seen his own um his own, I would say, uh destruction in a way.
31:47
SPEAKER_03: Um he was he was in Iraq and he served there.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: So he saw a lot of crazy things and sad things and horrible things, I'm sure traumatic things.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: So um not the same, but different.
31:58
SPEAKER_03: Um, but he uh has a different personality than me, if most men do than women.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: And um he's calm, he's um patient, and um he's been there for me throughout everything.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think it's important too for men to have also someone to talk to, which is a whole nother subject um in itself.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: But he's been wonderful, he's been my best friend.
32:22
SPEAKER_03: So pretty I I can't I can't say nothing but wonderful things, and just so supportive every time you kind of make a move.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: You're like switching clinics, he's like totally, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
32:32
SPEAKER_03: And you have to be on the same page with this if you're a couple and you're fighting about something, or totally you have to be on the same page, or else it's gonna cause even more turmoil because you're already emotional as it is.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: Um, so it and and I can see where it can cause a lot of problems for couples, you know.
32:47
SPEAKER_03: We've had we've had arguments, you know, we've had strong, you know, words told to each other just because of hurt and pain and grief, and um, but we got through it.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't anything that was destructive or you know disrespectful or anything like that.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: But I mean, it gets pretty heavy.
33:02
SPEAKER_03: It gets heavy, and it's it's it's hard.
33:06
SPEAKER_03: It's super hard.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: So have you um I mean, so the last transfer you did was that was in 2025.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: So that was a year ago.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: That was in like um beginning of last year, like roughly.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: It was like last um spring.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Last spring.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: So you've taken a year and a couple months.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: So kind of just where like where are you guys now?
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Where are you after eight years, eight plus years, right?
33:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're I mean, where and you've tried so many things.
33:39
SPEAKER_03: After the transfer didn't work, um, we decided to um well let's start a like a wellness journey, you know, let's get healthier.
33:48
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love that.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: So we got with a um functional practitioner.
33:53
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, who'd you go to?
33:54
SPEAKER_03: Um Candice Coleman with the whole NP.
33:56
SPEAKER_03: She's out in Howie in the Hills.
33:58
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
33:58
SPEAKER_03: Shout out.
33:59
SPEAKER_03: She's amazing.
34:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:00
SPEAKER_03: I love her.
34:00
SPEAKER_03: I feel like I need a good one.
34:02
SPEAKER_03: I love her.
34:02
SPEAKER_03: She's phenomenal.
34:04
SPEAKER_03: She loves Jesus.
34:04
SPEAKER_03: She's great.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm calling her.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: So we went to see, yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: So Lucas and I both went to her.
34:08
SPEAKER_03: She did a whole blood panel of things that no doctor, regular doctor, would check.
34:13
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
34:13
SPEAKER_03: And found a ton of things, you know, inflammation markers up the wahoo with me.
34:18
SPEAKER_03: And um, so I got on all kinds of supplements that I needed to be on, um, taking um LDM, low dose nutracks, all these different meds.
34:27
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I feel better.
34:28
SPEAKER_03: I I feel healthier.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: I feel better more than it's amazing.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, anything in particular that you would say like this has been a game changer supplement-wise?
34:35
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
34:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, I think low dose LDN.
34:38
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
34:39
SPEAKER_03: Um it well, there's been lots of theories about helping your egg health too.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:44
SPEAKER_03: Um, helping cycles, your hormones.
34:46
SPEAKER_03: Um also I've started HRT, which I had horrific hot flashes starting um late 30s um because I had such high FSH and very, very low um estrogen.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: And my AMH um recently, well, last year I got it checked and it was non-detectable.
35:03
SPEAKER_03: It was zero.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
35:05
SPEAKER_03: It was zero.
35:05
SPEAKER_03: That was a whole nother craziness when I found out.
35:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:08
SPEAKER_03: So it was zero.
35:09
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I got on HRT, so the estrogen patch, um, progesterone at night.
35:16
SPEAKER_03: Um if it it's amazing.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: Game changer.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's awesome.
35:23
SPEAKER_03: HRT, if it's wonderful.
35:26
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it but but battling that being on HRT and trying is complicated.
35:32
SPEAKER_03: Sure, absolutely.
35:33
SPEAKER_03: Because in a way, it's a little bit like birth control.
35:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: Because you know, so much of this and that, you know, it's like, how do you are you ovulating?
35:40
SPEAKER_03: There's lots of confusion with that too.
35:42
SPEAKER_03: So, but it's like, do you feel better or do you so it's I feel good, I feel like I just am healthier than ever.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's you know, we're in a place now, what do we do?
35:57
SPEAKER_03: You know, because there's only so much you can do with the diagnosis that I have.
36:02
SPEAKER_03: We've tried so many IBFs.
36:04
SPEAKER_03: We know that we only get at least one egg.
36:06
SPEAKER_03: Each egg is unhealthy.
36:07
SPEAKER_03: Every time it gets tested, it's abnormal.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, the only options are, you know, adoption, donor, uh child free.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Or when you say donor, do you mean like it would be like your husband's sperm in a donor egg?
36:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's donor egg.
36:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:24
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then there's also child free, or you keep trying naturally and hope for a miracle at 50.
36:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't know, you know, and so it's all these options.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, and you kind of that's where we're at.
36:38
SPEAKER_03: Uh it's kind of like we're just right now praying through it and just asking God to kind of like give us some more, not clarity, but trust and making uh taking a step forward into something, um, and and just clearly making it obvious that that's where we should be.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: Because I don't think that I think that any of those options are wonderful, all of them.
37:01
SPEAKER_03: I think they're all wonderful.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, you just have to be at peace with it as a couple.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, all stories, I don't care how you get your baby, I think it's perfect, you know, and God's there.
37:12
SPEAKER_03: So I don't think um I have no opinions bad about any way you get your child.
37:17
SPEAKER_03: I think they're all beautiful.
37:19
SPEAKER_03: It's just what's gonna be right for you.
37:21
SPEAKER_03: You just haven't had that answer yet.
37:23
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and that's the hard part.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: And you know, me, and I think this is like once you do have a baby, if that's what's meant for you.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: And you know, when we talk about this on the show, it's like what's the one thing you can tell yourself going through where you are.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: And more times than not, it's always kind of centered to trust in God's timing, and you know what's so cool about your story, like there's a reason you're kind of like slowing it down, you don't have a clear answer, like you're getting your health.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm sorry, but for eight years you're putting your body through the ringer, right?
38:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a long time.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: I gained like 30 pounds.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just your hormones up and down, every stress.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: And I and I I love where you are because you can't, I mean, you've got to you gotta pause, you've gotta reflect, you gotta pray, you gotta take care of yourself.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I know it will come for you.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: I believe firmly, I have faith that it will come for you wherever your next step is supposed to be.
38:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, and I and it thank you.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: I I think that like the um the story's not over yet, you know, and and I don't think that um I I I know that with me, with Lucas and I, we we know that we don't want to be childless.
38:48
SPEAKER_03: We do want to be parents.
38:49
SPEAKER_03: We do know that what that option is not for us.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, and not that it's bad.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: You've just marked one off your list.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: I know.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: I got scared.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: Wait, what happened?
38:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
38:58
SPEAKER_03: So that's that's for sure.
38:59
SPEAKER_03: We don't want that.
39:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's not the option.
39:02
SPEAKER_03: So we've got the the other ones that I mentioned.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: So you've got adoption or donor or get natural or pregnant naturally.
39:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like I don't know how my body's what's going on, you know.
39:11
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:12
SPEAKER_03: We've thought about should we do another IVF cycle to see now that my body's okay, just one with Dr.
39:18
SPEAKER_03: Loy, should we?
39:19
SPEAKER_03: And we're And he's retiring, so get it in quick.
39:22
SPEAKER_03: No, we actually have a meeting with him.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: We'll talk about that.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: So and and then you question, am I cra are we crazy?
39:27
SPEAKER_03: No, are we cuckoo brains for doing this again?
39:30
SPEAKER_03: No.
39:30
SPEAKER_03: Are we crazy, you know?
39:32
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think you have to do those things to to get to the if you're curious about it.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the first step.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Like honestly, I think that that it's not like we're I know in my position, I wasn't like 100% like yes, we're adopting.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: It was like, you know what?
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Truthfully, I I wanted to adopt, but the way I got there was I had two embryos too stored.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: I had options, you know what I mean?
40:03
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I if if someone gave me, and this is kind of my advice to anyone thinking about adopting, if someone gave you a baby today, if you got a call and we're like a baby needs a home, like would you take the baby?
40:15
SPEAKER_01: And if you're like, yes, without a doubt, well, then your your your heart is ready.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's what it was.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: Two weeks later, yeah, it just happened a lot quicker than I had imagined.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, which was like God, that was God's timing.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Everything that was like meant to be for me, like happened so quickly.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: And it was it was truly a miracle.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: But I just think if you're a little bit curious, like why not?
40:41
SPEAKER_01: If you can do it, a lot of people get emotionally burnt out, physically burnt out.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: If you've got a little bit of um left in you, I mean, wait till you're just a fighter clean.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Come on, till you're surrendering on that floor.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's tough, yeah.
40:55
SPEAKER_03: It's tough.
40:56
SPEAKER_03: You do question yourself a lot, you know.
40:58
SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, I don't know.
41:00
SPEAKER_03: I you just it's such a personal journey, the infertility.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Like it's easy for people to p give their opinions, but when they're not in it, you know, it's not it's not that simple.
41:10
SPEAKER_03: It's not, it's just not.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I wish it was, but it's just not.
41:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, so it's it's to be continued to where we're at and what we're gonna what's gonna happen with that.
41:23
SPEAKER_03: But I do believe that something will happen.
41:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do.
41:26
SPEAKER_03: I believe that for you.
41:26
SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm at that in that zone of okay, something's gonna grow, something's gonna happen.
41:33
SPEAKER_03: I don't know how it's gonna look like, um, but I know it's gonna be what God wants for us, and that's it.
41:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know?
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, and there's so many stories in the Bible, even like Joseph, you know, like when he was with he was like the servant in the house, and then the wife kind of came on to him, and so he was like, no, no, no, and then he gets thrown in prison, and then you kind of like breeze over the fact that it was like seven years in prison, you know what I mean?
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're like you just read these Bible stories, but then when you like think about it, you're like, wow.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: I do that all the time when I read my Bible.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: I I have to sit after, and I'm like, you know what that I just read?
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so Mary I feel was a surrogate mother.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, would you say completely?
42:13
SPEAKER_03: I mean she she I mean think about it.
42:16
SPEAKER_03: There's there's there's stories in there that kind of reflect a lot of infertility and decisions between adoption, surrogate, all of it.
42:24
SPEAKER_03: And just long, long donors term donor storages, yeah.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: All of it.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: All of it.
42:29
SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, and I think that that's important too as a Christian to I think it's really important to realize that it's okay for your building the way you're gonna build your family to look different than the norm of society thinks that we should all naturally get pregnant, why pick a family, you know, what whatever.
42:47
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's good now that we have so many women talking about infertility.
42:51
SPEAKER_03: I see it in shows now on Netflix shows, you know, you see all the everything.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: It's like you see miscarriage, you see people talking about IVF on shows and ever all kinds of things.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: I can't watch Virgin River without crying.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: I love a few bites without crying.
43:02
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I've watched on everything now, touches on absolutely and they know what they're doing.
43:07
SPEAKER_03: Um totally, totally, absolutely.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: She's really cute, the main advertis.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but she's been through it all.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: I my friend watched it and she said, Andy, don't watch Virgin River, it's literally you.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: And I go, No, I'm gonna watch it.
43:19
SPEAKER_03: And I I enjoyed it.
43:21
SPEAKER_03: It was hard, but I enjoyed it.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's you know, sometimes, and I think it's hard for us to accept some of the, you know, the options that I were talking about because it's like, well, we don't hear about it as much.
43:32
SPEAKER_03: Maybe adoption you hear a little bit more the most about, but like the others, like you don't like egg donor, you don't hear too much about egg donor or sperm donor, um, or maybe even child free or fostering, even.
43:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:47
SPEAKER_03: You know, there there's all kinds of different ways to have a family.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: And I I just think the more we talk about it, those people that out there that are thinking about it will feel like maybe more encouraged.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so much more common.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean I just had my cousin call me last week.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: She had cancer when she was very young.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: And so they've determined that like her egg quality is just not up to par with like creating like an embryo that would be sustainable.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: So they're looking at like egg donors.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: And so it's just a tough journey.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: It's it's hard to explain.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: I know she's young.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
44:24
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like to your point, like, where does she go to talk about this stuff?
44:28
SPEAKER_03: And there's probably a lot more people going through it than you think, but they're just afraid to talk about it.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: And I would tell you, you know, it's funny because with adoption or surrogacy, we like I did not ha I didn't get pregnant and have my babies.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: But if you do an egg donor, you are getting pregnant.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: And having an I think sometimes, and and I know this through the community, some people share privately, even their children don't know.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Because it's that one thing you could probably like not have to disclose even until they're older.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, because you're you you're you are pregnant, you are giving them so I I don't know.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: I think it's probably a lot more common and it's just not widely talked about.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: I agree because because it's not visual, it's not like a a physical visual thing that you have to like actually disclose per se.
45:24
SPEAKER_03: Right.
45:24
SPEAKER_03: And also, who goes around going like, hey, how'd you have your kid?
45:27
SPEAKER_03: IVF?
45:27
SPEAKER_03: How'd you have a kid donor?
45:28
SPEAKER_03: But you know what's the funny thing?
45:30
SPEAKER_03: Like no one goes.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, we actually do.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm always okay.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Never mind.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Never mind.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, on this side of things, we're right, right.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: On this side of things, because we struggled and it was so difficult.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: My poor Sayla.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm always like, This is my miracle daughter, Sayla.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: She needs our IVF baby.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: How complex that she's gonna wait, tell her what's because the other day she was like, hey mom, so I know I'm IVF.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean I have to do IVF to have a baby?
45:55
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh honey, no.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: But I talk about it so much and I'm so proud of it.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Of course, yeah.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud that like we were able with the through Dr.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Lloyd and like modern science and like obviously with the help of God, because she is so God ordained, that little beauty.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she really is.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm just so grateful that we were able to have that opportunity, you know.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: So yes, now on the other side I shout it from the rooftops.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: It opens the door for people to be able to talk about it, you know.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: I agree, and that's healing, yeah, like crazy.
46:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean that and that's what we are.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: A lot of we're broken women in a way, not totally, yeah, but we're broken in that aspect, in that section of our heart.
46:46
SPEAKER_03: We're pretty shattered.
46:47
SPEAKER_03: So I think any sort of putting the puzzle back together for us with help of other women talking about it and and coming from the they're past that point, they're on the other side, whether it's adoption, donor, serious, anything, and they're saying, hey, like Joy's on the other side, it's gonna be okay.
47:04
SPEAKER_03: And that's what like I want to hear more of, you know.
47:07
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't really want to hear more about how bad my ovaries don't work, and we know that.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
47:14
SPEAKER_03: Like I understand, you know, at this point.
47:17
SPEAKER_03: I want to hear good positive encouragement because you know, I know my situation and it is what it is.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: Um, I've accepted it.
47:28
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't mean I can't try one more time, maybe.
47:31
SPEAKER_03: Maybe but at the end of the day, I know um what my body is and how it's gonna react to certain things, and but to have those stories and those testimonies are just like I mean, it's can't put money.
47:44
SPEAKER_03: I mean it's and there's there's still options, you know.
47:47
SPEAKER_03: There's still options, yeah.
47:48
SPEAKER_03: And and it may not look like you thought it was gonna look like.
47:51
SPEAKER_03: And that's what I never does.
47:52
SPEAKER_03: I know.
47:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it never does.
47:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:54
SPEAKER_03: I never thought that I was gonna be a young widow at 23, 24.
47:57
SPEAKER_03: I never thought that that would happen to me.
47:58
SPEAKER_03: I never thought that, you know, there's so many things that I never thought would happen.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: Never, never.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: Those things don't happen to me.
48:05
SPEAKER_03: Right.
48:05
SPEAKER_03: You know, like that doesn't yeah, you just don't know.
48:08
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's just again, like you say, just ask, you know, when I when I we go to heaven, why?
48:14
SPEAKER_03: But I actually don't think we'll care about it when we get there.
48:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you probably won't care.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: Um right before I take my last breath, right?
48:21
SPEAKER_01: Like just you're floating and then I'll go.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like your anesthesia for the past yeah.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: No, honestly, I um, you know, it's so funny is truthfully, from the bottom of my heart to you, I wouldn't change a thing about my story.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: I love I like my kids came to me in perfect timing and in the perfect way, and they're the best of friends, and they're boys, and I like I might have to walk away if like a group of mom are talking about nursing or like delivery or whatever, because like quite honestly, you just have nothing to add.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: So I just kind of walk away, and that's okay.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Um and I like if that's how I got these two souls that are my sons, I would do it all over again.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, and and that's the special part that you don't know yet.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't know how that's gonna go, but you've got all the foundation and the grit and the strength to get there.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't wait to see where your story ends up because you're gonna light this world on fire with what, right?
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, she's gonna be writing books, she's gonna write a new album.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's gonna there's a new the world's gonna be your oyster.
49:38
SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
49:39
SPEAKER_03: So, did you write a book?
49:40
SPEAKER_03: No, that's a dream of mine.
49:42
SPEAKER_03: I want I yeah, I um that's a dream of mine.
49:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I uh that's a goal of mine is to write a book.
49:47
SPEAKER_03: I really would love to one day.
49:49
SPEAKER_03: What do you want to write about?
49:50
SPEAKER_03: I think just my story, my life.
49:52
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot more to it.
49:53
SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, it's just uh it's just it's hard to put it all into, you know, one episode, of course.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: It's one chapter by one chapter, right?
50:01
SPEAKER_01: But you did you tell us more about your ministry goals?
50:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, the book the book would be one of those.
50:09
SPEAKER_03: I think like with me, um it started with, of course, you know, being on Instagram in a way that's like first steps for me to be there for women.
50:21
SPEAKER_03: I've had women DM me when they woke up from like surgeries and they'd they're writing to me.
50:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a me.
50:26
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like special.
50:28
SPEAKER_03: Do you have a mom?
50:28
SPEAKER_03: Or nobody like me.
50:30
SPEAKER_03: And I feel like ridiculous in a way, like who am I?
50:33
SPEAKER_03: And but they didn't they didn't know who else to reach out to.
50:36
SPEAKER_03: And so something like that um would be uh what I would call part of my ministry.
50:41
SPEAKER_03: Um absolutely I don't know how how I want it to evolve.
50:46
SPEAKER_03: I honestly just using my voice, I don't know where it's gonna take it.
50:51
SPEAKER_03: I think just I'm not sure.
50:53
SPEAKER_03: I I have thoughts and ideas, but right now it's just being there for women that are going through it and um knowing that they're not alone and that you know we're all feeling the same things.
51:04
SPEAKER_03: And um and I think that alone is just the way that uh God can work through me and hopefully be a source of um support.
51:14
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm not perfect and I don't know anything and everything, you know.
51:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm just me and um I can just share what I've been through and the feelings and the thoughts and and all that.
51:24
SPEAKER_03: Um and it's real.
51:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm just a regular gal, just like so many of us, and just trying to do our best, you know.
51:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, amen.
51:31
SPEAKER_03: That's that's all we can do, you know.
51:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna be up here preaching.
51:34
SPEAKER_03: And be authentic with it, right?
51:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean it's being authentic and real and totally, totally calming to others or just like opening your your heart if if you need if a conversation is needed.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely yeah, absolutely.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: And where can people find you?
51:49
SPEAKER_00: What are your socials?
51:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just Andy Mann's Andy I.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: It's just a man with an S, M A-N-S, and I'm on Instagram mainly, my website, I have a blog.
51:58
SPEAKER_03: Um, I've talked on there, I have YouTube.
52:00
SPEAKER_03: Um, you might see a video on there of me crying about when my ovulation when I ovulated all my eggs, that was like 30k views.
52:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:08
SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
52:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's been a lot.
52:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, I was feeling it that day, and I just was like, I gotta talk about this, and I got it.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: And so that I I did that.
52:15
SPEAKER_03: Um viral.
52:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I but I I try to share here and there on my page, other than my typical home decor, love for home, and just lifestyle stuff and cooking and just my life and my puppies and my husband and that kind of thing.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: And um, just you know, that.
52:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the Andy Mans.
52:31
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, we're definitely gonna be rooting you on.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: You're part of the Infertile Diaries family now.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: And she lives close.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: I know she's an Orlando native.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I already have our next date.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: I saw her post, it was like Jesus and Pilates.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, it's so fun.
52:50
SPEAKER_03: We're doing bodies with like worship music.
52:52
SPEAKER_03: Yes, we do like a kind of a little sermon in the beginning, and then you work out and then they have like food and little food trucks, and that's amazing.
52:59
SPEAKER_03: So cute.
53:00
SPEAKER_03: And this the the Pilates instructor was so sweet, and um, it was a good workout.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: Like my butt hurt the next day.
53:07
SPEAKER_03: I was like, this looks amazing.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: So cute, yeah.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: It's um, I think their information's online somewhere, but yeah, cute idea.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, great idea.
53:15
SPEAKER_03: Great, yeah.
53:15
SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
53:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's our next uh date night.
53:18
SPEAKER_03: Like a we should do like a workshop with that.
53:20
SPEAKER_03: Contact the gal.
53:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:23
SPEAKER_03: Love it.
53:23
SPEAKER_03: Bring all the infertils out and then cry together the infertils out.
53:26
SPEAKER_03: Oh boy, and champagne, maybe.
53:29
SPEAKER_03: Oh boy, we'll keep you posted and check our Instagram.
53:32
SPEAKER_03: You can never know.
53:34
SPEAKER_03: You never know.
53:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh, brother.
53:36
SPEAKER_03: And you gotta laugh after you cry.
53:38
SPEAKER_03: That's so true.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh well, thank you so much, Andy.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming on and being so vulnerable.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I like I said when you first walked in today, if someone asked me to even go to dinner where where I was with where I was, where you are, I would be like, no, because I just I was so nervous to talk about it.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: And I so I admire you so much.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: Even your strength for just talking about where you are to make others feel less alone.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: I think is is truly inspiring.
54:11
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for coming on.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: And I think you guys too.
54:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you for doing this.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: Okay, cheers.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Cheers!
54:22
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: We gotta let you know.
54:25
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast.
54:33
SPEAKER_00: If you have been impacted by this episode, there are two things you can do for us.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: First is leave a review on Spotify or Apple Music.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: And second, is to share this with a friend who is struggling.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: This helps us to spread our message of hope for others.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: If you would like to get in touch with Lindsay or myself, please message us on Instagram at Infertile Diaries Podcast.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: Or you can go to our website at WhitneyHedeman.com and everyone deserves a family grants dot com.