Latest / Chirping Zebras / JONNY SUPORN | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #126

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JONNY SUPORN | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #126 · Chirping Zebras

• Mark: Welcome everyone to Chirping Zebras, Mark Riley, alongside Gino Binda, and want to welcome you and right off the hop, thank our sponsor, the referees, Creesh, your one-stop shop for all your referee needs, from supervising and training to assignment and payment. They do it all. And also want to give a shout out to Heads Up Hockey, which is Geno: Yes. Mark: where our guest today is from, Johnny Supon. So want to give Heads Up Hockey a shout out. And also give a shout out to our favorite studio, AOA Studios up in Beverly. And want to remind you to like and subscribe. Hit that like and subscribe button. And also follow us on all the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course. Geno: TikTok. Mark: Always right on the money, Gino. and also want to let you know chirpingzeebras.com where you can get your merch. And we're gonna have some special winter merch coming up. So check that out for sure. And if you didn't see our last episode with Low Cash, Chris and Preston from Low Cash, you gotta check that out because those two men are Geno: Check go check it out. Mark: they are very cool. told some really cool stories Geno: Yep, those guys are awesome. Mark: too. I'm hoping Geno: Yeah, they were awesome. Mark: this weekend I'm I'm going down to Tampa for the face off of heroes event that we did that I did last year, a year and a half ago in in Montana and it's in Tampa and I'm heading down there and Chris lives down there. Also Geno: Nice. Mark: Pat Maroon. Pat Maroon will be there. He's one of the NHL alumni playing in the tournament. So very excited to meet him and maybe ask him to come on. He's come up a couple weeks in a Geno: Be awesome. I won Mark: row. Geno: I wonder if you remember some pissant referee. Yeah. yeah. man, Mark: Yeah, you had him. You reffed him. That's right. Geno: he was like I used to battle with him. Like, I mean, that when he played, like the American League was like they had a whole bunch of knuckleheads. They had the Sicedo brothers, they had like it was, you know, all the there was a whole bunch of guys. It was Wild Wild West. There was a lot of lot of fights, a lot of tough guys, and you know, it was good, it was a lot of fun. Mark: yeah. So we'll hopefully we'll we'll see him on the zebras soon enough. but that's this week and I'm excited about that and I'll have some stories I'm sure to share next week from from the tournament and whatnot. A few people our our buddy Albi will be down there, Andrew Alberts. Geno: Dude, you gotta do some like yeah, you gotta do some like hey, live on fucking scene down in Tampa. You gotta you gotta plug it. Like just keep Mark: yeah. No. I got yep. I got a bunch of things planned. our buddy Ally afraidie'll be there. Geno: Nice. Mark: you know, with the skulllet. So well not now, but you know, Geno: When were when we were when we were at that Granite Links thing, like sitting in the morning watching the Craig Hill thing, and I'm sitting there going, I'm hanging out with L I Afraid I'm like, how cool is this? I'm like, I'm having a coffee with the guy Mark: Yeah, I know. No. I know. He's such a cool dude too. no, this is gonna be I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to this weekend. Geno: Unbelievable guy. Yeah. Mark: Frank Simonetti will be there, our buddy from the Bruins alumni, Geno: Nice. Mark: who's a huge proponent, of course, Captain Ryan Crowley from Warrior for Life and all. Geno: Nice. What about Haji? H Haji will be down now. Mark: I don't know if Haji's going, but you know who's gonna be there is John Eccles. Our favorite retired Navy SEAL. Geno: nice. There you go. Mark: you know, so he'll be there too. there there's it's gonna be I'm I'm really pumped up about it. you know, to see the boys and and all the you know, not only the the X NHLers that'll be there, but also the special ops guys, the tier ones, you know, the retired SEALs and and special ops hockey with Johnny Eccles will be there and All those guys. I'm hoping maybe some active members too will be there, active SEALs, which will be cool. So really looking forward to it. Geno: Nice. Mark: So I'll have I'll have lots to report on next week. And I'm sure you'll see some posts over the weekend from that. Geno: Awesome. Mark: Yeah. So I'm I'm pretty psyched. and today's today's guest, Johnny Supon, from Heads Up Hockey. Geno: Yeah, I feel bad. I feel bad. I I didn't mean I wasn't yelling at him. I was just yelling just to yell. It's just like Mark: You yelled a lot, huh? Geno: I didn't I didn't the angry Gino came out. It's been we're in October and I've had enough. I've had enough of the U8s and the U10s. Are you kidding me? Like, what are we doing, Mark: Yep. Well Geno: man? Like it first of all, it's all the stick swing, everything's 12 and under. Like, get a grip. It's not real yet. Mark: W well, it's it's stuff that you as an assigner and we as referees shouldn't really be worried about in that age group. Geno: Me as a person that loves hockey in the game, it's like, what are we doing to the to our kids? Like w I I don't know. My my daughter just had a very competitive game and you know, we played the Eagles really tight and there wasn't one ounce of yelling and screaming. There was sh like stuff going all over the place. But like people just watched the game. It was a good hockey game. At the end, all the girls, hey, nice job. Boom, off they went. Right. It was nice. It was it was great to be a part of, right? There was no Hostility, nobody yelling and screaming, and that's ninety-five percent of your games, right? and if and if it's happening in all your games, you are the problem. Like your team's the problem. Like you have the problem parent, you have the problem whatever, problem kid on your team, what what what have you. and it's not it's not one program, it's not one age, it's not one thing. It's you know, it's all individual stuff and it's all different things, but man, the environment right now in Utah, it's absolutely absurd. With with the my hockey rankings and this and the and the pressure we're putting on these 10-year-olds. Like my daughter's goalie coach, JP McCursey. you know, he tells me Mark: Love, love JP. Geno: he JP goes, like I remember it was either last year or the year before, he goes, Hey, you don't want to break her yet. I go, what do you mean by that? He goes, You don't want to break her. Hockey's still fun. It's still like she's smiling, but she's working hard and she's have like she's learning, but you don't want to break her yet. And I'm like, wow, that stuck to me. I'm like, Yeah, you don't wanna put all that fucking pressure on her. She's all all I'm putting pressure on her is if you're committing something, you're doing it. And when you're out there you're working hard and you're listening and you're you're paying attention. And then if you wanna do extra, like I clipped all her goals the other day, right? In Loungebury said, Hey, don't force it, right? So I said, Hey, I got all your goals clipped if you wanna look at Just let me know. She has yet to ask me and I have yet to show her. So like But there's times where she goes, Hey Dad, I wanna see those goals and she sits next to me and we and we go through like the other day. we s and then the next time we sat down and we and yeah we went through the things. so like I'm not gonna get mad or whatever. Like, yeah, no, I wanna go I wanna go play across the street. Go ahead. Like, go ahead. Mark: Do you think one of the things that seems to be lacking or has gone downhill quite a bit is the respect for the game, right? I mean, obviously the respect Geno: Yeah, like Mark: for the officials is is getting lost. Geno: Well, dude, like the s I think John when he brought that point up when I said read the room, I think that was the point I was trying to make, right? Like if you see a a fifteen year old kid out there by himself or he just even out there by himself and you know they ha they have no clue what the hell they're doing, one, it's probably their first or second game. Two, you know, you're trying to get through it and the and their partner's going, Jesus Christ, right? And you're trying to like coach up and you can only do so much. But you have to go through that. The only way you get experience is by by doing games and by your By your fourth or fifth time, you should understand and be comfortable blowing the whistle, pointing for goals, talking, communicating. You should be, you know, all of that. You should have that confidence. doing all that kind of stuff, because that's your job. That's what need to do. And the more you do it, you'll learn how it's done when when you see the whistle blown or when you, you know, call that penalty and everybody's like, yeah, that's a penalty, right? And it's you you're not getting chased out of the building. It it's I don't know. I don't know where I'm going with it, but it it just driving me nuts the temperature, the the rinks for young young young officials. Mark: Yeah, no, I I I think it like we talked about with Johnny, our guest today, it's a it's not one thing. You know, it's not just the players, it's not just the coaches, not just the parents, it's not just the referees. It's a combination of everything. And but like when I say respect for the game, you know, when when we played, you know, if someone poked our goalie, we'd punch him in the face. We wouldn't stink swing our stick at their head, right? that I I think, you know, it's like hitting someone from behind, right? Like Geno: But now a punch is now the now the penalty for a punch is so severe, right? So I'm gonna swing my stick, right? And it's a minor high stick Mark: And get the same penalty. Geno: or mi right, or I'll get the same penalty. So it's like exactly. So what I don't know. What do we do? Mark: But I don't know, like I I just never have seen U ten, U eight, U twelve players do some of this stuff. Like w you know, where's it coming from? Geno: No. Did you see the last one in Clinco with the in b in Buffalo with with the with the fights and the s the brawl? It's unbelievable. It's whole Mark: Yeah. No, it's it's Geno: like that one just what that one exploded. Mark: Yeah. yeah. And and you know, it to you know, we we have to own our piece too as referees. Sometimes it is the fact that we're not calling what we need to call. And and I'm not so much talking about those new kids, right? The you know, the 14, 15, 16 year old kid who's out there trying to figure it out. I'm talking about more veteran guys that are out there just for the paycheck that aren't doing what they're supposed to do. Geno: that drives me nuts, right. Mark: And then those are the guys Geno: Like you said, combination of a bunch of things, right. Mark: Yeah, well th they they don't call the penalties they should call the violent stuff and then the game goes to shit and they're blaming the players and they're blaming the coaches Geno: Well Mark, I see it. Mark: and they're bla you know what I mean? Geno: But I see it too where not even the violent stuff, right? It's the little stuff that gets let go, like the obvious hook, the obvious trip everybody in the building sees. Call it. Because now you're not now you just let everybody in the building know that that that's okay. And then you now I'm questioning your judgment, right? that's an obvious trip. Everybody in the building knew it. You just chose not to call it. Now I'm questioning you. What what are you doing? Right? I didn't see it like that. Okay, fine. That's one. But if it's happening a lot, now the frustration builds and builds and builds. Now that stick swing is here and it's boom, now it's going up, right? And now that push is now a punch. And because I'm I'm sick of getting hooked and sick getting tripped and and and it's not getting called or corrected. And that's frustrating. And that's what that's what leads to all this kind of crap. Mark: But we saw that in the NHL when McDavid, you know, lost his mind 'cause he was sick of not being protected and cross checked, what's his name in the face? Geno: he's a baby. No. Mark: Wouldn't be saying that if he was a bruin. Geno: No, no, he looked great in the Bruno. Like Marchant. Yeah, I'd take him all day. I would hate him if he was on another team. And actually he's Mark: Yeah. But I think Geno: on another team and I still like him, but yeah. Mark: I I think one thing from the refereeing standpoint too, and I don't I don't quite understand it, but maybe it's just because I was never afraid to call penalties, right? I think some guys see this stuff and they don't want for whatever reason. Like I you know, I supervised I Geno: 'Cause there's friction well, there's friction there's friction all the time. Yeah. Mark: supervised that EHL tournament for you over the weekend. And I saw some things that the penalties were obvious, like a cross check behind the net. And when I asked the the referee after, they're like, Yeah, I saw it. And I'm like, Well, why didn't you call it? And the answer is, Well, I don't know. Well, y you know, you gotta call that, you know? Geno: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mark: and I know you gotta learn. Like one of the one of the situations there was an an elbow, wicked elbow. I mean major penalty all day, right? Arm goes up, this same kid skates down and cross checks a kid in the head in the corner. So now He really should be getting two fives and two games, right? two major penalties. He ends up getting Geno: Yeah, do you know that clip I showed last night? Sorry, that clip I showed last night, we did talk about that the week before. I just posted it. I forgot Mark: W yeah. Well i in and Geno: it was. I go, this looks like the same clip, but it was. Yeah, go ahead. Double major. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mark: It what yeah, I remember we and and it you know, and and the referee when I talked to him said, Well, I just thought it was kind of a continuation. So I gave him five and then a game for the other one. And I was like, Well, but they're two separate acts. Now, again, he's never seen that. And to call two penalties on the same kid takes a little balls. I mean, let you know, it takes a little intestinal Geno: Yeah, tough to do, huh? Mark: fortitude, right? 'Cause you're nailing the player, because a lot of players, Geno: Well but when it presents itself, let do it. Mark: yeah. You know, when the arm went up, Geno: Take it. Mark: you were like, All right, time to take liberties because they're not gonna call two on me. Geno: Yeah, right. Mark: but it's just things like that that, you know, it's as you always say, it's a learning process that everyone has to go through. but I think we collectively need to get more comfortable calling penalties. just because I think certain people don't wanna, I don't wanna affect the game. I just called three on that team. I don't wanna call four. Well, you know what? You're not slashing the kid. You're not cross checking the kid. You're just a you know, reacting to what's happening. So, I Geno: We can make this another episode if you want. Mark: you know, we could probably go on and on for a while. Geno: But yeah, our guest was really good today. So we gotta get let's Mark: Yeah. Geno: I say we get into that. Mark: Yeah, let's get to our guest. Johnny Soupon from Heads Up Hockey. does a great job, has a great social media presence, and I think really approaches it one game. And that was it. That Geno: Yes. And he refereed one game. One game. And got yelled at by a parent. Thanks, parent. Jerk off. Mark: was it. Now he's coaching. He's no we could have had him. We could have had him. Yeah. Geno: Well no, he's doing good. Maybe yeah. Yeah. He's doing good. He's still in it. Yeah, we could have had him. We might have him back. He said he might come back. Mark: Yeah, no, I think we should for sure after the season get you know get his take on the rest of the season. But had a great Geno: Good stuff. Mark: outlook on coaching and runs a great program, heads up hockey. You should check it out. So as I always say, without further ado, let's get to our guest, Johnny Supon. Johnny, welcome to the Zebras. Great to have you here, man. Jonny: Mark, thanks for having me. Geno: Welcome, John. Mark: No worries. Jonny: Hey Gino. Mark: heads up hockey. Give us a little bit of about what you do and kinda how that all developed. Jonny: Heads of hockey has been kind of a result of about ten years now of hockey coaching experience. I started during my days at Merrimack back in twenty seventeen, just started with a couple private lessons teaching like a three year old how to stand on his feet on the ice. you know, that evolves into two clients, two to four, kind of snowballs into what we have today, which is like tournament teams, camps, clinics. I'm doing it full time now. so heads of hockey has always kind of been You know, and I didn't come up with the name Heads of Hockey till about three years ago. up until then I was just like Johnny Hockey, the kid from Merrimack giving lessons. it wasn't until actually last year I did my first tournament and we've kind of been like full swing into that now. So it's evolved over time for sure. I've been in the game now for about ten years from a, you know, private training standpoint. And you know, heads of hockey, the brand, has really only came about in the past like three, four years. So now every day like I'm on the ice today at 330 for a couple of private lessons. we've got tournaments in the spring and summer primarily. and then during the fall, which is like right now, I'm doing a lot of private training, team training. I'm running skills, I have power skating clinics and camps, stick handling shooting sessions. so primarily we're training focused and then we kind of just started dabbling in the tournament kind of competition space. Geno: Right on. Now you have a lot going on there. So the big thing is what what's a cost some of those things as far as like the private trainings and lessons and camps and things of that nature. What are the costs for those? Jonny: so it kind of varies, you know, depending on, you know, what rank if it is is is it a group session? So primarily what Geno: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jonny: I do is group trainings, drop in skills. it's seventy bucks to to drop in, or you could buy, let's say, a package of drop ins for you know, a a cheaper price each. Same with the private lessons, same with the tournaments, is sort of just a you know, there's a drop in fee, there's a participation, sign up fee, if you will. And then I have some clients who go a little bit extra and kind of, you know, try to stay more consistently. So therefore, if we do let's say do so many sessions per month, you can kind of you know, there's ways to set up like a payment plan, if you will, and and get a bit more consistent basis of sessions, right? Geno: Nice. And it's all ages, right? Mark: Now we had Yeah. Jonny: All ages, yep. Geno: Yep. Okay. Mark: Now we had John Loungeberry on and he does kind of a similar thing, but you know, with with a lot of pros and whatnot. And he works with them throughout the season. Is that something that you also do and that, you know, you get the lessons but then you kinda have a little bit of follow up, maybe video sessions, that kind of thing? Jonny: Absolutely. Like I mentioned, I have like you know, I would call that like a a gold tier client that asked me to come review game film. I even make an effort to go see one of my clients games. Like for every client I love to go see them play and j you know, just showing up for them makes, you know, they're super happy when I show up like that and then I can kind of use what I see as part of like the next lesson plan. And so, you know obviously I try to do that as much as I can. It's getting to the point now where that becomes really difficult on the weekends, right? Where I've got to be everywhere, so many different places. I'm on the ice, but but yeah, during this I kind of I feel like I have my clients who love to see me during the season. And then I have clients who love to see me in the off season, right? And like putting that extra work in the off season. So we're kind of getting into like the heat of like the winter season now. So I'm starting to see that sort of group of folks who like to see me mid season and and now they're sending me schedules so I'm very much sort of planning the the November to March months and trying to see as many games as I can. Mark: No, you skill based, obviously skills are something you have, you know, every kid wants to learn. One of the things we talk about is that hockey IQ. And I I noticed, you know, on your website you mentioned that. and that's something that I know you teach. How how do you go about teaching that? 'Cause that, you know, so very few kids are born with that, right? most kids that have that hockey IQ, and we see a lot of kids now without a high hockey IQ. They can stick in on a phone booth, they can rip shots, but how do they, you know, do they know where to go in the ice and how to play the game? So how do you man like approach that aspect of it? Jonny: Yeah, you know, I feel like the name Heads of Hockey kind of infers that. you know, this is the reason why I kinda chose that name in the beginning. I kind of hate Geno: Love the name. Jonny: reg I kinda hate referring to my sessions as skill sessions. I like Geno: Mm. Jonny: to take a much different approach and I'm very much not I'm not the type of guy that's gonna set up cones and just blow a whistle and just send them, like in an assembly line. I first of all, I keep my groups really small. You know, I try to keep it no more than eight to ten skaters because I just feel like after ten skaters on the ice, you just get lost in the mix. I'm very much trying to teach the game. Every drill that I do typically has like a decision-making focus at the very heart of it. So, you know, you're not just going down and sequelling through cones and then doing this tight turn, then shooting. You're picking your head up, you know, I'll put fingers up one, two, or three. You've got to look at me and that. dictates where you then have to go or what play you have to make. So I'm always trying to at the very start, heads up. Here's how you control the puck, using your peripheral vision. So look at me, but still stick handle. And so especially these young kids, like some of that stuff is so new to them. And we could spend a whole hour on just how to like keep the puck in your peripheral vision and keep your head up and skate down the ice. So you know I s I suppose you could call that skill based. Like I'm I'm teaching them a skill of how to pick their head up and skate with the puck at the same time. But to your point, hockey IQ, I believe hockey IQ is simply just decision making in real time. Right. can you do sh simple shoulder checks and see where you're going? you know, one thing I say all the time is ninety-eight percent of the time you don't have the puck and you're sick. So what are you doing in those moments? How do you find ice? How do you create time and space? And I really take my time teaching them those things. I try to emphasize these things with every drill. I never just go out there and just say, hey, we're just gonna skate around these cones and look cool. but I do agree with you that a lot of these kids go to a lot of skills and they're really good at toe drags and all these different things, but there is definitely a lack of hockey IQ out there. and I'm not sure who's at fault for that, but I try to very much differentiate myself from that. Geno: So in your lesson plans, I don't think this is taught a lot and I don't think coaches teach it. I don't think it's taught in skills. where you know, with where players are supposed to be expecting contact, right? Like we just had Loungebury on and he talked about how that kid cut to the middle and put himself in a vulnerable spot, right? Or if you're in along the wall and there's a player pursuing you, right? Like you gotta expect contact. And I think players are not expecting contact and when they do, I think they're they're putting themselves in in tough spots. And the contact, if it was made in open ice, it probably w isn't as bad. But when it is in and around along the wall, players are getting hurt and it looks very violent and it's probably not even a penalty, but they go into the wall. So like referees arms are going up, things of that nature. Like do you guys teach any like, you know, physical battle drills where you, you know, you put yourself in a in a bad spot, but you're protecting your body, you're protecting your head, you're protecting, you know, the puck and all that. Jonny: absolutely. I have a drill specifically I called the battle one v one board battle drill. I get I take two kids, put right at the same spot, I dump one puck to the wall, who's gonna get it? and a lot of that in the beginning you see a lot of penalties, you see a lot of interference calls, but then I tell the kids, Listen, you have to be trying to make a hockey play. If you're focused on the puck and you kind of just use your positioning a bit to like get in front of the guy and then you hold your ground and he falls, like that's a hockey play. That's not a penalty. But if you're going in there and you you you're looking right at him and you just lay him out, obviously ref's gonna call it, right? So I'm starting to see it more and more. I I'm sure you guys can agree. At the higher levels, let's say I have a tenu elite player, you know, in his elite EHF games, a lot more is gonna go than in the town squirt three game, right? So you kinda have to based on like the level of the play that the kid is in, obviously certain things will go versus at the lower levels, you know. Geno: That is so you John, you hit the nail on the head with the EHF elites, right? Especially at Jonny: Yeah, yeah. Geno: the U ten and U eight level. Like are you are you kidding me on how much the the the the temperature and the environment in the rink on on these elite players? There's no one elite at U U eight and U ten. I'm I'm sorry. They're not elite. They're they're very good, right? They're they've they got potential to be. I think the messaging at those ages are horrible. But you are not wrong. So we've asked the EHF to give us Because we assign a lot of the officials in most of the most of the programs. So we've asked them to mark what games are elite. So we can assign good good referees to that those games because those are you're not you're not wrong, those are different than a town, town game. And there's more pressure on these kids nowadays. And we're we're seeing it on the referee side of things where the these coaches are losing their fucking minds over a U ten game. And it's guess what? You just chased three three I'm not kidding you. We had three ki kids quit over U eight elites. Because coaches are yelling and screaming over stuff, right? And these kids don't even know how to blow the whistle yet. And unfortunately, not all the games we can get covered with two guys and a veteran guy. Because we got all these we got 240 midget games in in the in the area. everything else is going on. Like when when is when is enough's enough in the state? Or or where can we put these games in a safe time, right? Like, how about a Tuesday night? I can put a veteran and a young kid on instead of a practice night, right? And then you can use that ice for something else. There's gotta be ways. To especially protect those elite players because those you you're not wrong. I mean, they are very good and it is it is a big difference. But don't be chasing the I mean, we we had an NHL coach kick another coach over over over my hockey rankings this weekend. Are you shitting me? Like, what what are we doing? I like my god, my hockey rankings. We we just lost to a tier two team and all the all the all the hard work these kids put in. Like, give me a break. Like, what are we doing? What is the temperature of this? You're talking about development. You're talking about getting these kids play ready and and for the next level and developing these kids the right way and in a process, right? We these kids are getting way too much. Don't break too early. Like we're breaking these kids way too early. Sorry, that's my rant. Mark: Johnny, can you tell Gino had no can you tell Gino had kind of a tough weekend? Jonny: Well, hey, I think the past two weekends have just been I mean, last weekend with as you guys already know, with all those events that happened and we're so early in the season, I think, you know, let's talk about the EHF again. The EHF elite, I feel like, has sort of assumed the position of we are the most competitive hockey. Therefore, when you come here, a lot of stuff is gonna let go because that's the pace that we're playing at. But I think at a fault you create this environment, this atmosphere that is so high pressure. Kids are afraid to make mistakes. And you know, I think the narrative of that last weekend with those really just disgusting plays, people are so quick to be like, it's the coaching. It's the referee's fault. It's like, guys, okay. Right. Geno: Ever everybody's trying to blame someone, right on. Yeah, you're right. Jonny: When really it's a kid who's nine years old battling like Hormones and emotions, and he's just trying to. I'm not saying I'm not trying to justify the play he made from that specific clip, but you know, these are kids trying to figure shit out as well, right? And I people are so quick to just blame his parents, his coaching, and like that's a reflection of the entire Geno: Well what what Jonny: program. No, I don't think so. It's just But is it at a result of that environment that was created? Like it's such a high level. You build up this just like Pressure cooker and then someone's gonna blow a gasket, right? Like it's just it's tough. I don't know how you how Geno: No no. Jonny: you fix it. Geno: No, and I mean, the it's a combination of all those factors, right? Like you just said. It's not always just one thing. Yeah, it could be a referee error that led to that. It could be a coach. It could have been the car ride, right? It could have been whatever. But like that clip you put up with the with the kick, right? I want credit for that by the way. Jonny: Ha ha ha. Geno: No, but like Like honestly, so you you you dig a little deeper, right? And then you find out that that old man was the one that beat the shit out of the sixteen year old referee two weeks ago. no, sorry, last year. So there's a little history there, right? So Jonny: Mm. Geno: so you know what I mean? So it's a combination of a whole lot of things, right? nobody wants to see that. It's gross. And nobody should be doing that. And I guess it's not the kid's first time with that action. So Jonny: Mm. Geno: there's a history there, right? So there's a history that you you you identify a problem, right? And that and that Like you just said, it just paints the picture and umbrella of the whole sport, which is negative. And I'll tell you what, ninety five percent of it's good. ninety-five Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: ninety-five it it's it's really good. And I'll tell you the referees that do over two hundred games for me, I ask what are the percentages of your games going in the shit? And they say about five percent. And it's cause of it's 'cause of one asshole or somebody had a bad day. Jonny: That's it. I feel Mark: D it Jonny: I feel for you guys. I mean, I truthfully do, 'cause I think a lot of coaches will just be chirping the refs like it's funny, chirping zebras, but like Geno: Yeah. Jonny: it's part of the game, right? But at the same time, it's like I say it all the time, these refs have jobs to do too. Their jobs aren't easy. They've gotta make decisions in split seconds that you know you can't make everyone happy as a ref. And I've got a quick story. Actually, Gino, when I was probably 17 still at Merrimack. I reached out to you and you actually got me a couple games back then to to to ref. You do? and Geno: I remember that, yeah. Yeah. Yep. Jonny: I can't remember if you if what game it was, but I remember one of my first games you got me. It was like a 8U game. I might have missed like a penalty or something, and one of the dads chewed me out right after. I'm like getting off the ice. He walks over, he's Geno: Jesus. Jonny: like, Is this your first game refing? I'm like, actually, yes, it is. And he's like, You're terrible, Geno: I always tell him that. Jonny: like hang him up. And to be honest, I I did not go back. I was just like, Yeah, this ain't for me. So Geno: Like what I don't feel the need. So like we just had a we just had a situation, right? A fourteen year old girl just just did a just did a hockey game and it was a non call situation. And then the other the other coach I know and he goes, it was a g it was the right non-call. But and then the referee called, actually she called my wife, and he was like, like now her confidence just got shook because now this coach went over, talked to her after the game, was like, How can you not call that? that's unbelievable, blah blah blah blah blah. Like gave it Red of the Ryor Act, right? Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: And now she's like, I don't know if I can do this and blah blah blah. Now she's second guessing herself. Meanwhile, she's just had a had a blast of a time doing it and and is Jonny: Mm. Geno: absolutely loving it. And it's just it just takes somebody to just I gotta just say something, right? Like for what? Like what do you what are you getting out of that? Jonny: Yeah. Right. Geno: To make a point? Like, I don't get it. There's no education out of that. Mark: Do you do you think we we talk a lot about how much money is spent and not just in hockey, right? Now it's every sport. Everyone's expected to play twelve months and everyone's expected to, you know, specialize in their sport at a very young age and hockey especially. There's so much money spent. I mean, you know, do you think that's kind of part of why we see this culture developing where Parents feel like they're entitled to freak out and, you know, and they're putting pressure on these kids. And these kids when they get in a situation, you know, we've seen a lot lately of stick swinging. It seems like there's a lot more stick swinging now than ever before. Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: what's your thoughts on that? Because it's just such it it it is getting to the point where it's like, when is it gonna stop? Jonny: Yeah, y I think you bring a great point with the money part with the money piece. I think obviously this sport has probably always been a sport where like y you know, you you probably shouldn't be playing the sport if you're going paycheck to paycheck, right? It's just simply like just the odds aren't there. Especially time. Not only do you need money, you need time, you need resources. but then I think there's something to be said too about the kids these days. Just like think about like the world we live in now. These are To put it simply, like these are iPad kids, right? These are kids who maybe were born during COVID times and just like I hate to say it like that, but it's you know what I'm trying to say. Like the the tempers on these kids now. Like you see these kids banging their stick against the glass more than you used to. Like they have call it a lack of discipline, maybe. it's hard to like characterize every single kid that way, because I know tons of great kids who Can keep their head on straight, but you know I'm trying to say. The Geno: You you you can't coach hard anymore. And if you do they they they they they crumble, right? Like you can't coach a kid hard. I was just talking about this, about a supervisor, Roz. Like, yeah, he came in and basically told me I sucked. And it's like, Well, did ya? Well, yeah. So like we'll figure it out. Like, get better. Like he didn't he wasn't wrong. Take constructive criticism, right? And I think that's what's lacking. I I don't know. Yeah. Jonny: Yeah. I think they're sensitive. Yeah, and and and parents probably don't want like those, you know and I think there's a balance there, right? 'Cause some of these coaches are just barking, screaming at the top of their lungs. You can hear on Geno: Yeah yeah. Jonny: live barn when you try to watch a game. Like I don't think that's the answer either. I very much try to find that middle ground between we're trying to compete, but also, boys, go out there and have some fun. Like it's a April spring hockey game. Just go out there and have some fun. I try to very much not make it like that pressure cooker environment that I was talking about. Granted, I coach spring and summer tournament teams. It's a little bit different than a Geno: Mm. Jonny: full season EHF winter club, but at the same time, using that specific clip example, like that's that's the highest like you know, that's that doesn't happen, I don't think. I mean, the kick happened in like an upper gold division, but still, right? It's still For some reason a lot of those incidents happen in the EHF specifically, which is I think a a weird coincidence. Geno: I just I actually just s my wife just showed showed me one right beforehand. And there was I showed one last night on the Monday night with the you know, I think it was a town game. Kid just went Jonny: Mm. Geno: right right across the head, like the kid skated by chirped him and the kid went, yeah? Right across the s right Mark: Ha ha. Jonny: Yeah. Geno: across the melon. Right? But it's like Jonny: Do you see the one where the kid hit the kid on the bench with the stick too? Just two handed the kid on the bench? Geno: No, I missed that one. Jonny: yeah, that was I saw that yesterday. It's it's Geno: Yeah, I missed that one. Jonny: just they keep popping up and again, that's the thing. It's like Jesus, like it Geno: Right. And then I got one that is I'm like, that one isn't as bad as that other one, but it's still you know, so now everyone it's like but I I feel like there's a trend, right? Hockey, there's always something we're trying to correct and there's always some type of culture or or something. It's that so now it's the stick swings, right? How are we gonna penalize now we're gonna over penalize this for a little while and you Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: know, something people are gonna start sitting and then, hey, you guys can't do that and then you know, people are taking runs at people. I think they should Let let contact be back in the sport. Let body contact Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: back in. Let some aggression out. It's it's a it's a game played without out of bounds. You're gonna get hit and you're gonna learn how to take a hit because it's it's dangerous around those walls, right? Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: And you've got to be able to prepare for contact. Mark: I wanted to get your your opinion on that, Johnny, because we've talked about it here before. at what point should they introduce checking? Right? It used to be back in, you know, when I played, you you checked right away, right? Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: And now it you wait till that bantam age when there's you know, differentiation between sizes and skills and whatnot. When do you think it should be introduced? And when I say that, introduced properly, not just letting the kids go out and crush each other, but at what point should we teach them how to get hit and how to throw a hit so that when they do get bumped, it's not, I can't believe you bumped me kind of thing. Jonny: Sure. Yeah, I mean, I would say probably like ten U. at least start 'cause like I said, I do that one on one drill. I mean, I'll do that drill with eight U players. And again, the focus is you have to just make a hockey play, you have to go for the puck. If you're bracing yourself and a kid bounces off you just 'cause you have a a stronger like stance, like that's that's not a penalty. But if you go in there and you're literally looking at him and you're trying to put him through the wall, obviously There's an intent there. You didn't even like look at the puck, you just tried to hit this kid. And I'm trying to get these kids to like 'cause you know, puck protection is like a huge part of the game as far as like you get to the corner, you get your feet in front of the player, and you win that puck, right? So I'm always trying to like teach that and like that's the right hockey play. and then of course, you know, I'll do like a hitting clinic for like twelve year olds and thirteen year olds, but answer your early question, I think that when they pushed it back, I think that was probably the wrong move. whenever they did make it all the way, I think now it's bantoms, right? But it peewee's. When I grew up, we could check in peewee's, which was was, I think, U thirteen or U twelve. Now it's not till U 14, right? So I'm not sure what I'm sure back then they were probably like too many concussions, and that was probably what drove the decision, right? but to your point, I think that probably wasn't the greatest move. yeah, I'm curious to know your thoughts. Geno: So I'm a supervi I'm a supervisor in for D one women's and I talk to, Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: you know, the coaches, I vet them, I go, Hey, would and there was a lot of talk about bringing it into college hockey this year and every single coach said no, it has to start at the lower level. So why are they saying that at the division one level? And we're saying that at the youth level right now, saying no, it has to be introduced because of how it is at thirteen is it's not Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: it's not translating, right? So it's not it's not. All these kids, they're not hitting right, they're all up with their hands, they're not they're not and the way USA hockey describes a body check and the way and or play in the pockets, not body check, body contact, right? And what Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: a check is separating the pock, stick up, not, you know, all that kind of stuff. And right right after the shot you're not eligible, all all these d different things. That used to be legal that everyone's like, that's a clean fucking hit. It's like, well, no, Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: not not not by the rule. Not not how it's we're not supposed to put him in the third row. We're not supposed to Jonny: Right. Geno: like really get our forearm and ride it right through his Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: chest and put him right like make him feel it, right? none of that. And they all wanted to bring back into, you know, it has to be in the high school or or they have to check before they get here. Because can you imagine a senior, you know, hitting a like playing with a freshman that never checked before? And they're coming in, right? So same same thing. Mark: That's what happens. Does isn't isn't that what happens in the boys' hockey, right? Like you got you got kids that as as a bantam might be six or two and like already weighs one hundred eighty and he's playing against a kid who's still five six and maybe a buck five. And of course, when you release these kids at that age, and now the hormones, like you mentioned and stuff, are raging, they're you know, I couldn't hit now. I'm gonna try to kill people now because I can hit. Especially if you're bigger. Like I I mean, I think we all agree it should be introduced much earlier than it is right now, but done properly, you know, so that Geno: Yes. Mark: when they get to be a bantam, they know how to throw a legal check and know how Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: to take a check. And that I think would change the game, both in girls and boys. I you know, my daughter played. Geno: It should be the same for everything. Mark: Yeah, she was physical and she always got penalties because she was strong on her feet. But it was like You know, I think they should introduce it across the board. Jonny: Absolutely. I I think it's tough. I think it's you know, especially you guys, I'm so curious. When a when a situation like two weekends ago happens where you have all this just this sort of bad negativity towards the sport and like this is like the culture of hockey now, it's it's bad plays like this, it's like how do you from like a referee body kind of look down and say, Guys, what do we have to do here? Do we have to like give out more majors quickly? Like Geno: So yeah, I i I put on a Monday night quarterback. I just posted it up on on YouTube. You can go watch. referees crease dot on YouTube and we walked through all this, right? And we have to start calling the penalties. We're letting this shit go and not penalizing these acts and then people just think it's okay. Like I said to a referee the other day in a junior game, I go, You came in the locker room, I Hey, you just shook your head at that Defenseman dumping the player in front of the net. I go, why'd you shake your head? He goes, Well, I wasn't calling it. I go, Well, you just told everybody in the in the building that that play was legal, right? Jonny: Mm-hmm. Right. Geno: And I go, even though you didn't want to call it or not, you just let everybody know, no, that's not a penalty, right? By shaking Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Geno: your head. I go, so either call it or you go up to him the next half, say, Hey, the next time you do that, you're going, right? That's not a battle. You just cross check that kid in front. Probably didn't warrant a penalty at that point, but you know, just that body language. So like We we do that type of you know, communication of breakdown with these guys. It's it's no different than in youth hockey when, you know, kid gets cross checked and we just let that go and everybody thinks, Hey you know, it's just it it unfolds, it raves when we're not penalizing it. Mark: It it's kind of a multi tier problem too, in that sometimes it is the referees' fault because they let the game Geno: Yeah. Mark: get out of hand. But at Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: the same time, like that one and we talked about this, Gino, the one where the kid swung and broke a stick over the kid's face, right? There was three penalties that happened before that in Santa Rice that could have killed the play. But then you look into it a little further. The kid's alone Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: and he's a young kid and his partner bailed and didn't show up. So it's like You know, you have an inexperienced ref who's alone because his you know, because his his partner blew off the game, which is a problem for Gino, right? The assigner. And then Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: so he's out there and you see this shit that in that game that never would've happened if I'm on the ice or Gino or someone that has experience because we would have killed it at center ice. So it what sucks is everyone sees the clip of the kid swinging the stick and breaking it over the kid's head, and they're like, You know, there's more to the story and but it's a it's a sport wide problem because like you mentioned, Gino, there's too much hockey. There's too much hockey. I can't go work with a young kid in a bantam game because midget and junior games are happening. Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: so I think it's a it's kind of a more than a one facet problem. Geno: Well, it it's a twofold it's it it's a twofold thing. Like the coaches, they think it's like us first them, right? We're in it we gotta be in it together. The coaches and the referees are in it together. This state is fucking gross. It's all about the W. They don't give a shit about the W. We got a program that we play against that just post the wins. They just post wins. Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: Our wins. Not ties, not losses. They just post the wins. So they're not about development. They're about the W and making their program better. Like th that's fine. Be do that. But I'm about developing my daughter. My daughter's playing on one team. She practices four times a week and goes to one scale and plays one game a week. Right. And she's a fucking goalie. And, you Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: know, like she get asked to play all the time. But like I'm like, whatever. Like, I'm walking to run around and go to six different rinks on on the weekend. And now she's playing tired and then she gets hurt. And by the time she's thirteen, she's icing her fucking knees. Like Jonny: Yeah. Geno: You know what I mean? Like I I don't remember ever icing until I went to college. Like these kids now are being overworked and it's it's ridiculous. Sorry. Mark: No, y you you forced other you forced other players that you played against the Ice. Geno: Yeah, that's true. Mark: The way you played. Gina, you bring up a you you bring up a good Geno: Sorry, I'm ranting today. I'm on a yeah. Mark: point. And Johnny, as a as someone who coaches teams, you know, tournament teams, right? in tournaments you want to win, but at the same time, you wanna develop the kids. And also there's that referee interaction. How do you approach that as a coach, especially in a tournament where, you know, if you're in a league, you might see the same ref a few times, get to know them. Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mark: You might you might see a different ref every game throughout the weekend. How do you kind of approach that from the coaching standpoint? Well that that's that's Geno: the same guy in the same rink all day, but go ahead. Jonny: Well, I'll tell you what, I'm sure I'm sure you guys know for the tournaments, I think there's a huge drop off as far as like talented referees go as well. You know, on a tournament weekend, you could see I've seen guys that look like it was literally the first time on skates. I have one kid, like this kid was probably twelve years old. I he obviously he was older, but like this kid like was scared to blow the whistle because you could just tell this kid like is in like eighth grade or something, rough in this like eight U game. Geno: So read the room. Read the room, coaches. Don't go yell at this fucking kid. Read the room. Read the room. Say, this kid's struggling. No, I'm gonna fucking yell at him. Give me a fucking break. Jesus Christ. But the ones that do, I'm on to you and I'm gonna f I'm gonna come and ref you next game. How's that? Jonny: so again. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. So I'm not, you know. Mark: Yeah. Johnny don't yell at him, Gino. Calm down, will you? Jonny: So my first thing is like to the boys, to the my players, and I coach girls too, is like, guys, you don't talk to the ref. You let me handle the refs. They need to make plays too. It's not an easy job. And I'm the first guy to tell that to my team. So that again, if that tells you anything about like my environment that I try to create on the bench, it's very much the opposite of like, nobody better make a mistake or you're gonna hear it from me. Like, you know what I mean? I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to take that approach to the game and try to bring that back a little bit more. And I think parents love me because of that, to be honest. I'm not barking at the players on the ice. You know, I'll raise my voice when needed, I'll stick up for my guys when You I'll coach like a U fourteen team and the game's getting real ugly and just like going back to what you said, Mark, it it at some point it's like these kids who maybe lack in the skill and the hockey IQ, they're like, I can get on the highlight reel by laying this kid out. and then the benches are cheering when kids g are laying kids out. And now it's like I will say a referee told me the other days like you can't cheer after a hit, that's taunting now. So like they're they're putting a really tight Geno: It is. It's ridiculous, yeah. Jonny: grasp on it. And I knew after that last weekend with that specific like viral clip, I just knew right away that the refs were gonna be like holding tighter leashes. I Geno: Mm. Jonny: figured like the they'd be blowing the whistle more. I figured they'd be a top down like guys, we gotta take control a little bit tighter. and I'm already seeing it. I coach a U fourteen half season team and I'm already seeing it. I actually had a game at the bog the same weekend that that the the weekend after that breakers clip happened and The ref was just like couldn't put the whistle away. So Geno: Mm. Jonny: so I can see that there's but again, it's not an easy problem to solve. It's like so nuanced. It's so like you said, Gino, ninety five percent of it is good. Ninety five percent of the coaches are pleasure to coach and it's just that that one that goes just AWO. it's hard to keep a leash on some of those guys. And and that's what our sport breeds, right? Like those types of personalities, I suppose, like that's just It's it's always been, right? It's always been. We've always had those kinds of guys in the game. Geno: Right. I mean John, you see like we see it as referees, right? when coaches turn on on us and say, and it's our fault and everything's on us and they they keep laying the heat on the referees. Like you see the kids' reactions and then they're they're chirping and their energy goes up and then they'll now they're pissed off and now they take a penalty because of the the coach's energy and his his Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: demeanor towards the referee. I see it all the time. I see it in college hockey all the time. I've s I've called I've called games saying I've walked into rooms and and a division one college coach is all up in arms over something minute, right? Something stupid. And I I go, Jonny: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Geno: I'm like, Well, this this team just lost today, right? and they Jonny: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Geno: go out and shit the bed because the coach is just fucking losing his mind. And the kids feed off that. And we see that as referees. And I try to control it and tell her tell a coach that and and they just tell you to fuck off. But like I'm and you know, but it's it's reality. You see it all the time. It can throw your team off as a as a coach. Jonny: Yeah, I just feel like I honestly like I'm not even just saying this to say I I think you guys deserve more credit. It's like not easy to do Yeah. Right. Geno: I mean, we're not gonna be perfect. I mean th the the you know, we we're we make a lot of good decisions all game long, right? And we're probably Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: right ninety five percent of the time and it's that one percent and can you believe me missed that? well, did you see where his position was or he got bumped or he Jonny: Right. Geno: his angle or whatever, right? And then when we do make the right call, we're still getting yelled at for it, right? Like it doesn't matter. Jonny: Yeah, yeah. Geno: Like it i it one way or another. But You have to have that mindset going in, going fifty percent of the people are gonna like this call or not. And it's just part of the it's that's that's just sports, right? And and Jonny: Yeah, you gotta own that. Geno: you you have to understand that as a referee and manage that accordingly. So you can't let that bother you. You have to understand it and you know and react to it. Jonny: You absolutely have to have thick skin, right? Geno: Yeah. Mark: yeah. Jonny: so I could see how like a young female might not like love that, right? Like Geno: Yeah. I mean you quit after one game, right? Like Jonny: Ha ha ha. Mark: That's true. Geno: I mean, what the like it I Jonny: I mean, yeah. Geno: I had three. I had th I'm not kidding you. My wife said I've I've this is the dirt email I got from in in this weekend there was one poor girl at at at Canton doing an elite leak game and I know that one of the coaches on the team that wasn't at wasn't at Terriers, but it was the it was the away team and they were like, this coach is out of their mind yelling at this one one she's out there by herself. I go, Well her partner quit this week, so we didn't we didn't get the I'm like, what do want us to do? Like no nobody's run into that can't and be rink. I'm sorry. To to do games. We we it's it's the Mark: It's true. Geno: like that's where there are at the totem pole. Like when you see all the all the things that the you know, and I I tell these programs, I'm like, you gotta invest in your product. Get like tell your 14 year olds to go register and get them to work in your in your rinks. And then Jonny: Mm-hmm. Geno: there you go, right? And and that solves your problem. And now the parents are yelling at hey, listen, you you're yelling at, you know Things our youngest son over there, right? What are doing? And then that creeps on human nature at all of it. Like Jonny: Right. Mm-hmm. Geno: we get all these timekeepers now refing. Like it's awesome. Jonny: Mm-hmm. That's awesome. I'd love to get back into it Mark: John, I know you Jonny: more. Mark: I know you gotta run soon, but I I wanna get we ask a lot of people this question, and you're younger, so I'd love to get your kind of take on it. we ask everyone w who's on your Mount Rushmore hockey, right? And I'm just Geno: Mm, good question. Mark: kind of curious, as someone who grew up, you know, a lot later than I did, and and Gino too, who's on yours as far as who you think is You know, the four top players of all time. Jonny: So for me growing up, like my guy, Alex Ovechkin, easy, easy number one. So like, you know, his rookie year is like probably the year I started I fell in love with the game. Like that dude, it's probably the reason why I love hockey the way I do. I try to dress like him. I used to like have Geno: He's the ma'am. Jonny: the yellow laces, used to roll up my sleeves like him, just try to Geno: Hmm. Jonny: shoot like him. So then it was Crosby. So O V Crosby, those early like capitals, penguins, like series were were so fun to watch. And then, you know, I'm 'cause I'm a younger guy I was born nineteen ninety seven, so same birth year as like my buddy Tage Thompson. I played with Tage Geno: Mm. Jonny: for mid Fairfield my U fourteen year. So he's like just like my guy. I have his number. I could call him. So he's up there and then I'd probably give like McDavid number four. Just like easily the best skater in the world. I think we're at a really cool time right now where I could see guys like O V, Crosby play against like guys like McDavid and Matthews. And Geno: Hmm. Jonny: if you're one of those guys, you've got to look at them on the ice. I can't even imagine like, my god, I'm playing with Alice Ovechkin, like but he also just r announced this is his last year, right? Geno: Mm. Jonny: so but that's definitely my top four. O V, Geno: That's w Jonny: Crosby, Thompson, McDavid. Geno: Like the age thing is wild because like it it's Mark: That's awesome. Geno: the l it's the it's like that's the Lemieux Crosby for us, right? Like Crosby was the kid and Lemieux was the old guy and now it's these guys are the old guys and you're looking at the McDavis. That's wild. Jonny: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mark: Yeah, that's it's it's that's why I wanted to ask you that question. Be it it's a great Geno: That's good stuff. That's a good four. I like that. I like how you put Thompson in, yeah. Mark: yeah, it's a great four and it's completely not Jonny: Thompson's my boy, Tage, yeah. He's a superstar now. Mark: not my four, you know what I mean? But it's because Jonny: No, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mark: of what we grew up watching. It's just interesting, you know. Jonny: Right. Yep. Geno: Yeah. I love it. Mark: that's why I wanted to get your answer to that, because we tend to get similar four, you know, from guys that are older. Geno: Yeah, the the oars, the Gretskys, yeah. Mark: Gretzky, Lemieux. Jonny: Yeah, sure, sure. Mark: You know what mean? Or Jonny: Yep. Yep. Mark: so it's very cool. Ver very cool that Geno: Brian Burks was good. His was different. Mark: that you have four that are still playing right now, which is which, you know, i kinda Jonny: Right, right. Yeah. Geno: Mm. Mark: cool. And and Tage Thompson i is I think underrated. And if he played w Geno: He'd look good in a Bruin uniform. Mark: I know he would. Jonny: Yeah, he would. Mark: He really would. And and he I think if he was on a better team, he might get more press. You know, I I i saying it like that, but You know, I'm sure there's a lot of kinda, you know, not super hard hockey fans that would be like Tage Who, you know, which is wrong with his skill. Jonny: Right, right. Right. Geno: Yeah, right. Mark: So very cool. Well, I know you you gotta run, right? So, so yeah, thanks for coming on, man. Geno: Yeah, thanks for doing this. This was awesome. Jonny: No, thank you guys. Mark: and talking youth hockey Geno: Yeah. Mark: and we'll definitely I'm sure we'll we'll have you on again at some point to talk more about the craziness that is You talking. Geno: Hm. Jonny: I'd love to. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you guys. Okay. I'll count on that. Geno: And best of luck with everything. Yeah. You're doing good. That's awesome. Mark: And I'm definitely refering some of your tournament games. That'll be fun. We'll have some fun. You can throw a water bottle at me. Jonny: All right. Mark: Yeah, yeah. You can throw a water bottle. I'll pick it up, drink it, and throw it back and we'll go viral. Jonny: Ha ha ha. Geno: There you go. Yeah, stage it. Mark: Right? All right. Thanks, Johnny. Geno: Why not? All Jonny: Thank you guys. Mark: Johnny from Heads Up Hockey. just a great take. Yeah, great Geno: What a guy. Yep. Mark: guy and a and a great take on it. And I loved his Mount Rushmore. Talk about a younger kid's Geno: Yeah, that was awesome. I I love when I love when people put like a personal touch on their rush mole. Like, hey, I'm I always like it would be like, you know, yeah. Like Don Sweeney for me, Mark: Yeah, well he played with t Geno: yeah. Mark: he he played with Tage Thompson with midfield Geno: Yeah. Mark: field back when he's what do you say, U fourteen. So kinda cool that Geno: Right. Mark: he throws him in there because I don't think many people would put him in there. Not because he's not talented, but you know, just 'cause he's not one of those big, big names. So, but I'm glad we asked him that because everyone's Mount Rushmore tends to be a little older, you know. Geno: Yeah. No, that was that was funny. That was a good one. Mark: Yeah. Yeah. But his his take on youth hockey and stuff is is spot on and I think he has the right way to approach coaching, you know? Geno: No, it's good a I think it was a good conversation. I could've been a little bit more chill and relaxed, but you know, it's like it's like anything else, you get poked and poked and poked, you're gonna explode. you know, it's just like the players do, parents do. And, you know, I honestly you parents that, you know, are are really freaking out in there and you're driving your kids o all over the friggin' place from rink to rink to rink to rink, and then you go look at Libon and you got Three people on each bench, three subs on each bench, and you're like, What what the hell are we doing? Like just we're squeezing things in just to get it in and I don't know, make it some type of I don't know. We're squeezing Mark: Well the the the Geno: these games in like I don't know. It drives me nuts. Mark: Well, it's there's too much hockey. I think we all agree with that, especially here in this Geno: Hm. Yep. Mark: state. You know what I mean? There's just too much hockey. And Geno: Right. Right. Mark: w you know, I don't know how to fix it, but we'll keep talking about it. Right? Geno: Yes. Mark: We will keep talking about it. Well, check Johnny out. heads up hockey. It's H U hockey dot com. That's his website, Johnny Supon. S-U-P-O-R-N on Instagram and TikTok. Heads up hockey. Check him out. He's got some great stuff. and a big fan of ours, which is kind of cool. So and that's gonna do it. wanna make sure you subscribe, like and subscribe on YouTube. And speaking of the social medias, follow us on the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course Geno: The TikTok. Sorry, text came in. Mark: Of course. Thank you, yeah. Of course, you got more calls coming in from college coaches complaining about a trip, a hook, and a Geno: it's fucking ridiculous. Mark: hold. check us out at chirpingzeebras dot com. And for and also want to thank our sponsor, the referees crease. Without them, we wouldn't be here. So for Gino Binda, I'm Mark Riley. We'll see you next time right here on the Chirping Zebras. Geno: No one's listening anyway.