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SMNTY Classics: The Military Fight for Women in Combat · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I've
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: never told you production of I Heart Radio. So for
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: today's question, I was going to ask you the obvious question,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: which is did you ever think about joining the military.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: But if I am mistaken, we've already talked about that
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: on this show. Yeah. I think we were at least
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: talked about the fact that we had been approached. Yes,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: because we talked about our I think our score, so
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: my A C. T scores were so high I started
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: getting phone calls m and you were talking about that too,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I know. One of the big things too. A back,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I had a friend of a friend who was an
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: adopted Korean guy, and we were both talking about whether
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: or not we would ever go back, and he was
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: thinking about going to teach English and Korea, but changed
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: his mind because he figured out if he did go,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: he would have to actually serve that. Yeah, because that
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: is one of the things, like all men have to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: serve in the military for I think two years in
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: South Korea automatically, and I always thought about that. I
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: was like, wow, that's such a because I also thought
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  Speaker 1: about drafts and how that doesn't exist anymore. But what
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  Speaker 1: would that look like today, because I remember when I
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  Speaker 1: was younger, after nine eleven war happened and I was
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  Speaker 1: petrified and I started crying because I thought my brothers
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  Speaker 1: were going to be drafted because I did not understand
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: what was happening and the concept of drafting. But like
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: the horror stories and all of the PTSD and trauma
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and like that has happened from drafted soldiers, not just
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: drafted all the soldiers, but like specifically to those who
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be a part of the war to
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  Speaker 1: begin with. Yeah, my dad was drafted for the Vietnam War.
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  Speaker 1: And it's one of those strange things where when he
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: would tell stories, obviously when he's talking to his kids,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: especially when you're younger, they were funny stories, but I
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  Speaker 1: just know that I'm pretty sure none of his friends survived.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: He was the only one that did. And just like
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: these tragic things. My mom was dating someone who was
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  Speaker 1: drafted in Vietnam and never came back. And my grandfather
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  Speaker 1: was in World War Two, and he also would tell
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: these stories that as a kid, and like he would
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: tell about like as a woman would give him eggs
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  Speaker 1: and he was so hungry he would just eat the
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  Speaker 1: eggs raw and he would say it was like a
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  Speaker 1: smile on his face, and as a kid, I just
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  Speaker 1: could not make it makes sense. But yeah, yeah, as
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  Speaker 1: I've said many times, I grew up in a in
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: a military town, a big military town, and it was
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: a push that you were going to join and I
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  Speaker 1: had I had a decent amount of friends who at
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: least served for a little bit or are still in
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the reserve because it was like you could join um
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: j r OTC in high school. Yeah. Yeah, Well, as
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: we are recording this, Memorial Day weekend is coming up,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: and we've been talking about the women behind Memorial Day
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and we wanted to bring back this classic episode about
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  Speaker 1: some of the history of women in the military, So
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: please enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. A few years ago,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: we did a podcast on women in the military, and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: this was as the tides were starting to turn for
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: women being allowed to fight in combat roles, and we
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: wanted to do another episode, an update on women in
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the military, a because you know, it's been a while,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: but also because on January twenty third, two thousand thirteen.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Something happened, yeah, just something, just something, Yeah, No, that
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  Speaker 1: the ban on women in combat was officially lifted. And this,
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  Speaker 1: of course is despite the fact that there were already
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: women in very dangerous situations in combat situations. But officially
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  Speaker 1: the ban was lifted and the services have until January
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: to implement the changes. Yeah, right now. Just to get
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: an idea of what role women play in the military,
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  Speaker 1: they make up fourteen percent of the one point four
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  Speaker 1: million active military personnel, and this combat exclusion ban being
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: lifted opens up a potential two hundred and thirty eight
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: thousand jobs, mostly in infantry, armor, and special forces. And
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  Speaker 1: it's really with the infantry, those the ones who are
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  Speaker 1: on the front line. Although we will get into this more.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: The question is with modern warfare, are there really front lines? Um?
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  Speaker 1: But those are the used to be dudes, exclusively dudes
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: out there face to face with the enemy on hunt
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: and kill missions and things like that. So what was
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  Speaker 1: the reaction to this combat band being lifted? Obviously, on
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  Speaker 1: the one him, plenty of people were psyched about this.
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  Speaker 1: Not everybody was, though, a lot a lot of people
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  Speaker 1: raised some issues that were um, maybe maybe not the
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  Speaker 1: best best issues. Uh. Some people called it an untested
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  Speaker 1: social experiment and that more women would mean more sexual
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: assault and misconduct in the military. Penny Nance, who's the
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: president of Concerned Women for America Legislative Action Committee, is
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  Speaker 1: one of those people. She said, it's placing social experimentation
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: and political correctness over combat readiness. Yeah, the price. There
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: are three primary arguments that against women in combat, and
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  Speaker 1: these have been bandied about for years and pretty much
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  Speaker 1: any negative reaction will fall into one of these buckets,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: which is a that women can't meet the physical requirements,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: and a lot of that deals with discrepancies between upper
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: body strength, in particular between men and women. There's also
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the argument that women simply don't belong in combat on
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: moral grounds. Were very squeamish about the idea of putting
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: women in the line of fire. Uh. And we talked
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: about some of that, those those kinds of moral debates
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: in our episode on heroism a while ago, and how
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: it's more of a male construct um. And then there's
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: also the idea that women will disrupt unit cohesion and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: battle readiness because men and women together, Oh, that's gonna
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: cause a lot of wacky rom com scenario. It's just
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: like mash all over again. Well, and it's also mean
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: it gets into these these arguments of people saying, well,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: men won't be able to control themselves, which it's like,
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  Speaker 1: that's hey, come on that that's a major dis on
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: these male soldiers whose lives are structured around discipline. Yeah,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, it totally takes away any indication that
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: they have any sort of self control of any kind. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And essentially, due to changes in our culture, changes in technology,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and changes in the nature of modern warfare, all three
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: of those main arguments have been dismantled to the point
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  Speaker 1: that the military says, you know what, it's time. Yeah.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Megan mackenzie, in a great article for Foreign Affairs at
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the end of last year, took a look at what
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: some of the societal, cultural military changes are that are
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: making this ban this band that was just lifted irrelevant.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: One of them is what Kristen mentioned. It's this increasing
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: counterinsurgency warfare that we're dealing with in the Middle East
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  Speaker 1: has virtually erased the the concept of combat front lines.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: There is there's danger everywhere that they're going um. Female
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: soldiers contributions to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were undeniable.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: There's also been increasing support from within military leadership, not
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: just not just outside the military, and there have been
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: changes in public attitudes also about women's capabilities and roles
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: in war. However, it's interesting that argument about women disrupting
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the boys club at the front lines is something that
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: my friend's father said to me because my parents had
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: a Christmas party and invited everybody in the neighborhood. And
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: he he's an old school military dude, and I asked him,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: you know what his opinion on the changing tide was,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: and he was like, oh, no, no, no, sweetheart, no no. Women.
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  Speaker 1: Women will will interrupt the way that men interact. It's
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  Speaker 1: it's really a brotherhood and women just won't be able
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: to uh, to take part in that. Well. And it's
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: not just male soldiers who have said things like that
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: speaking in This was reported in the New York Times,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if she gave this direct quote
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: to the New York Times or another outlet, But nevertheless,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Brigadier General Lori E. Reynolds said, uh. In terms of
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: whether or not women should be involved in combat missions,
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  Speaker 1: she said, I don't think they should close with and
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  Speaker 1: destroy the enemy, describing the hunt and kill mission of infantryman.
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  Speaker 1: When you go out and see what the infantry does,
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  Speaker 1: the way they live, the way they train, it's good
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  Speaker 1: that it's all male. But you could also say that
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  Speaker 1: since she is so high up, possibly she just had
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  Speaker 1: to make that official stance of yes, the military is right,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: this is how it is. But it does kind of
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: stink that that sentiment is coming from a high ranking woman, right,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, and and she and she's certainly not the
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: only only female soldier who is echoed those things of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: falling back on the old gender stereotype of saying, you
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  Speaker 1: know what, there's a line, and we at some point
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: just let the dudes do it. It's just you know
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  Speaker 1: that that's where that's where they belong and where we
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily belong. But before we get in to more
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  Speaker 1: of those contemporary issues of how how things have changed,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: let's step back briefly to see where we've been in
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: terms of the military's inclusion of women. Yeah, the nineteen
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  Speaker 1: forties was a big time for women's involvement in the military.
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  Speaker 1: It was in this decade that Congress created the Women's
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Army Auxiliary Corps which was converted to full status in
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: nineteen forty three, so they dropped the auxiliary part. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: These were the first women in the army aside from nurses,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and by the end of the decade, Whacks as they
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: were called, are enrolled in the Whack regular Army and
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the Organized Reserve Corps. And in ninety eight, towards the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: end of the decade, the Women's Armed Services Integration Act
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: created a permanent core of women in all the military departments.
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  Speaker 1: This was considered a step forward at the time, but
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: it actually limited to two percent of the total service
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: members the number of women who could participate, and formally
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: excluded them from combat duties. Yeah. So so that we
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: have like with it's like a celebration, but also only
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: to a point. Um. And as these female soldiers gained
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: more and more recognition, I mean, the wax being included
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: as part of the regular Army was a recognition of
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  Speaker 1: their major contributions in World War Two. But in the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: postwar periods, um, you know, it's it's a slow but
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: sure sort of climbed towards equality. For instance, we have
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one women are authorized to command men,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: except of course, in combat units than in ninety eight,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: men and women began training in the same basic training
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: units at some forts like Fort McClellan um. And then
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, just to give you an idea of
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the numbers of women in the military, women made up
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: nine point one per cent of the army. And moving
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: back for a second, in one the policy of excluding
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: women from combat was reinforced from the Supreme Court ruled
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: that the all male draft didn't constitute je nder based
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: discriminations since it was intended to increase combat troops. And
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: they're like, and hey, women aren't supposed to be in combat,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: so it's not discrimination. I'm just imagining the Supreme Court
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: justice is being like, oh, hey, that's what that's what
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: their brief stuff cookies, ladies, And then they shrug and
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: high five and go out for drinks, still with their
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: robes on. Yeah, I digress. But things start to progress
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit. You see. You see the dial shifting
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: in when the military adopts something called the risk rule,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: which allowed women to be kept out of even non
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: combat positions if they were likely to be at risk
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of being fired on or captured. So you see that
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: protectionist rule being implemented. But then a few years later,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: nine three, the Secretary of Defense Less Aspen, basically dismantles
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the risk rule. He announces a new policy directing the
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: services to train and assign women on combat aircraft and
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: most combat ships, though yet again that combat exclusion ban
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: is kept in place. No direct ground combat is to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: be had for women, right, and that direct combat rule
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: excluded women from seven point three percent of army positions.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: It also had the effect, as you know, other combat
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  Speaker 1: bands had, of limiting career paths and promotion opportunities for
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: women and contributing to gendered stereotypes about the war being
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the business of men. But even within those tighter parameters,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: women certainly were able to climb through the ranks of
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: the army. Um In two thousand eight, General and E.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Dunwoodie became the first female four star general in military history,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and also became the first female to lead a major
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: army command. And it's it's it is kind of one
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: of those milestones where you say, yeah, oh my god,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: it took that long. Why did it take that long?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And it's because of combat exclusion bands, Because you're not
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: allowed to get in those positions that you need to
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: get to to get those kinds of promote oceans. Right. Well,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: going back just a little bit, you know, we talked
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: about how while women have already sort of been involved
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: in this kind of combat activity already. Back in two
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: thousand three, quote unquote, Lioness teams were deployed to assist
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: combat units in Irack searching for women are searching I'm sorry,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: women in those countries for weapons and explosives. And then
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: in two thousand nine we have the development of several
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: other female only units, including those female Engagement teams that
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: are written about often. During their first year of operation,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: these teams conducted more than seventies short term search and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: engagement missions in Afghanistan alone, but the military specified that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: these units could not contribute to hunt and kill foot
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: patrols and had to stay at combat posts only temporarily.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: So okay, I see what you're doing. However, in practice,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: what they did is that female soldiers were required to
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: leave their combat basis for one night every six weeks
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and come back immediately the next day. Yeah. There was
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a profile on these Marine female all Engagement teams in
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the New York Times in two thousand and ten, and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: it talked about how they would go in and do
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: all of this work. And then since this was one
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: of the first to go in there, it might have
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: actually been the first that this New York Times reporter
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: was following, the Marine Legal Review team went back and said, Okay, no,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: you gotta get out of here, because we you know,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: they had to toe the line of this combat exclusion ban.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: And at this time, all of this conversation was starting
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: in the military about the fact that front lines were blurred.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: They were having to, you know, make all of these
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: kind of loopholes for women to get in there, but
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: not too close. And uh, it was around the around
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: two thousands ten when we started hearing more direct lines
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: out of the military hinting at the fact that that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: combat exclusion ban would at some point be lifted. And
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Zoe Badell, who was one of the pointiffs in an
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: A c. L U lawsuit involving the combat exclusion band
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: and we'll talk about, was one of the members of
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that first female engagement team in the Marines. I didn't
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: know that, Um, yeah, four service women. Zoe Bedell was
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: one of four service women who filed this lawsuit in
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: federal court in San Francisco on November in a challenge
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to the band. They challenged it as a violation of
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee of equal protection under the law,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: and the lawsuit says that the Constitution forbids the government
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: from imposing a blanket ban on women's participation, and so
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: those women we should name them Major Mary Jennings Hegar,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Hunt, Zoey Bedell who we mentioned, and Colleen Farrell
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: who is a podcast She is a podcast listening Colleen,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: what's up? Uh? Yeah. For instance, Zoe Bedell, who I mentioned,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: was a Princeton graduate. She's a former Marine captain who
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: was part of that one of those female engagement teams
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: going into some of the most dangerous parts of Afghanistan.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: But she ended up leaving active duty after she decided
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: that her only future as a woman in the Marines
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: was a lifetime of logistics or support units. Essentially, she
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like taking a job and realizing that
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you're never going to get beyond a mid level manager position.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: You got to move on, right. And they point out
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: that of the women who have served since September eleven
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: report having served in a combat center area where they
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: receive combat or imminent danger pay. They also argue that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: the band was putting women in danger because in many cases,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: women fight alongside men, and these female engagement teams that
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: we talked about, they endure the same conditions, but because
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: they're not deemed combat eligible, they don't receive proper training. Yeah, so,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: in a way, the Combat Exclusion Band is putting female
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: soldiers at greater risk when they're out there. And as
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Time magazine reports, at least eight hundred and sixty female
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: troops have been wounded in a hundred and forty four
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: have been killed in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. So
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: even though they might not have ficially be fighting in
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: combat roles, clearly because of the changing nature of modern warfare,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: it's it's not protecting them from it's not guaranteeing them
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and they're not going to be hurt or killed, right,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: And because of all this wink wink, nudge nudge, you're
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: in combat but you're not really, let's not talk about it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes, that does, as we talked about, you know,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: prevent these women from rising through the ranks, but it
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: also prevents them just from being recognized from their heroism
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: and their accomplishments. Yeah. Major Mary Jennings Hagar, who was
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: one of the a c l U plaintiffs as well,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: received a Purple Heart and the Distinguished Flying Cross for
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: quote outstanding heroism and selfless devotion to duty after she
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: rescued her helicopter crew after their helicopter was shot down
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. But at the same time, even though she
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: did all of that, she didn't receive recognition for fighting
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: in a combat role. And so it's it's the same
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: thing of like, no, we're we're doing We're doing all
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of this, and we can do all of this. And
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I think I think we also need to mention that
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Representative Tammy Duckworth, who's a Democrat in Illinois U has
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: been one of the leading politicians who has been advocating
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: for the combat Exclusion band to be lifted. And she
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: lost both legs flying a helicopter INTERAC in two thousand four,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: and so she can tell you firsthand that yeah, we
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: might not be technically fighting combat roles. I might not
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: be in the infantry, but we are certainly in the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: line of fire. Yeah, exactly, there are I mean, speaking
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of dangerous situations, there are some developments that are very
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: beneficial or will be very beneficial when they are implemented,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: And one of those is that women's body armor is
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: being tested. And you might think, okay, well, so what no,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, we really have not had women's body armor.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: We've had women wearing small men's body armor, which is
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: not the same thing because women are shaped differently. Women
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: have hips, oh my gosh, boobs. So yeah, they would
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: even when they wore an extra small men's body armor suit,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: it would still be too long, leave gaps that left
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: them vulnerable. And a lot of women were saying that
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: they would get severely bruised because the armor would rise
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: up on their hips and sit there uncomfortably, so they
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: would just be you know, bruised all over at the
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: end of the day. Yeah, and those those gaps that
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: left them more open to bullets and shrapnel, which only
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: attest to me to the hoots puff of these female
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: soldiers who were nevertheless wearing these highly uncomfortable improved outer
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: tactical vests and doing their jobs anyway at a heightened risk. Um.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: But the innovations in the and the resources that the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: military has been pouring into developing this body armor for
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: female soldiers has been a an indication that yet again,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: you know, they were taking steps forward to lift the
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: combat ban, and some of these developments and inventions are
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: going to make the whole um strength and size discrepancy
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: argument a completely moot point. Yeah, there's been a lot
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: of stuff coming out of DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Projects Agency UM building exoskeletons and robots that can go
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: in and into battlefields and lift very heavy objects. So
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: either like sending a robot in or having these exo
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: skeletons that the soldiers can actually put on to give
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: them super human strength like Iron Man. Now, the video
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: of the robot mule is actually unintentionally hilarious. Did you
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: watch it? It's just it's completely silent. There's no music
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: or narration or anything. It's just this robot mule, headless,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: headless robot mule that is like they're showing how it
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: can go up hills and over rocks and through bushes
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: and stuff, and it's just well, it's unintentionally hilarious and
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I recommend that you google it. Yeah, because that the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: upper body strength is something too. When we were looking
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: at reactions from a soldiers saying, you know what, like
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: when you are out and you have a soldier down,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: you've got to run out there. You have all of
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: your gear on, which ways a million pounds estimated, and
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and women don't have the strength to pick someone else
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: up toss them over the shoulders. But then there are
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: other people who say, you know what, I've actually seen
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: it in the battlefields of female soldiers doing this. So
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, if anything, though, it's good that there there's
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: technology moving moving that forward to you make that more
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of a moot point. Yeah, and there is I just
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: like to point out a teddy Bear robot that goes
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: in and save soldiers. It has a teddy Bear on it,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: well not really a teddy Bear, but it's got like
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: a bear head so that it's supposedly more comforting when
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: you're saving a terrified soldier. And in response to those
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: concerns over unit cohesion, whether men and women can you know,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: stand side by side on the battlefield and not you know,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: have emotions or sex get in the way. Um, there
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: have been numerous studies, and this was pointed out in
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: that article from Foreign Affairs. There have been numerous studies
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: coming out of the U S Army Research Institute of
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Environmental Medicine, and the US Government Accountability Office UM, along
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: with various military and academic experts UH that find over
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and over again that women's impact on unit cohesion and
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: their physical abilities is negligible. In other words, the conclusion
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: that most of these studs reach are that, Yeah, I
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: guess what, male and female soldiers can get along just fine,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: and they can stick to the mission and complete it.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe we need to win Harry met Sally on the battlefield. Battlefield, Yeah,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: get it now? Okay? UM, So moving on from me
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: making terrible, half hearted jokes. UM, America is far from
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the first country to let women into the military. Yeah.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's another argument of Hey, you know what,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: there are twelve other countries already doing this and they're
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: doing just fine. Yeah. Canada, Hey, Canada. Women were allowed
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: into all military roles there in seven, and as of
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: two thousand six, more than two hundred women were part
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: of the regular combat force and more than nine hundred
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: were part of the Reserve combat force. Yeah. Internet genius
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Hillary Riisenberg over at BuzzFeed UM itemized all of these
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: countries that have already let women in combat. I mean
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: we're behind like Romania, Poland Finland. I mean you might say, well, no,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I mean this is the the American Army. The U.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: S Military is the most elite military force in the world.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: It's huge. You know, we can't apples to oranges. We're
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: talking about Poland Finland or you know, Sweden. Offense to Poland,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Finland or Sweden. UM, So of course it would take
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: a longer time. But uh, I think that there are
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: plenty of people, such as those four a c l
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: U lawsuit plaintiffs, who would say it's past do yeah
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: for this to happen. And as far as I know,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that lawsuit is still pending because they sued Leon Panetta,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the Secretary of Defense. UM. And I'm not sure how
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the lifting of the combat exclusion band affects that lawsuit. UM,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: but I believe it is still in court, that it
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: didn't just magically disappear. I mean, not to be too
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: informal about this, but if Colleen Farrell would like to
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: right in, if she's listening and talk to us about it,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: let us know. Let us know well. And and when
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: we when we posted about the combat exclusion band being
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: lifted on our Facebook page, there there were a couple
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of people amid all of the high fives who said, sarcastically,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: oh great, well, now women are you know, equal opportunity
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: to be shot at and killed? And there are you know,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: moral arguments that well, should we really cheer on women
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: being evolved when war is wrong and this is violence,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a product of you know, testosterone fueled
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: culture and all of these negative things. UM, and I
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: can understand. I can understand people's moral opposition to war,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: but I cannot agree with um gender based discrimination in
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: the workplace, which is what this boils down to. So
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see, though, between now and January,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: whether or not exclusions will still be put in place,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: because the government said, hey, you know, if you you
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: have until sixteen to implement this, but you can still
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: make a compelling case for saying, hey, you know what
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: special ops forces. You know, we want to keep it
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to these super elite forces. We're going to keep them
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: to two men only. And I have a feeling that
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: there will be still some that women are kept out of.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: So military person all listening, I know that you're out there.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I want to know what's going on on on the ground.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Because of course, there were so many media stories after
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that getting reactions from soldiers and I wonder now that
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the dust is settled, just a little bit, um if
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: if it makes that big of a deal. There were
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: some people who were saying kind of in the same
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: reactions to the donuts don't tell policy being lifted, where
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: it was like, it doesn't change anything day to day,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: We're still doing our jobs. I would like to hear
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: how widespread my friends father's opinion is and feeling there's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of that. Yeah, you know, I mean it
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: is the whole band of brothers kind of thing. I
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I can. I can understand that I have a military
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: personnel in my family. I can. I can see that. Um.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: But again, when it's like a skills based thing and
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: if women have the skills and they should be able
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: to apply for and get the job if they're qualified.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So send us your letters everyone, what what do you think?
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And even if you're not in the military, what what
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: do you think about all of this mom stuff? At
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send those letters. Well,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I have an email here from Zara and this is
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in response to our podcast on Vocal Fry and she
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: offers linguistic insight. She writes, you mentioned switching your accent
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: and speech patterns to match the person you're speaking to.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: This is called style shifting or code switching by dialectical people.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: People who use two accents of the same language are
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: known to do this according to their interlocutor, often completely unintentionally.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I know I do it, and it gets on my
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: husband's last nerve because he says I have a fake
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: French accent. I'm a French speaking Quebecer with a lot
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: of French exposure, especially when I was a kid. My
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: French accent has devolved a bit since it's been a
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: long time since I've been in contact with French people,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: but it's still completely unintentional stopping and actually requires a
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: conscious effort. On top of that, I quickly start matching
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: my interlocutors accent or speech patterns. I remember when a
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Belgian friend came over for two weeks in Quebec. She
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: stayed with me, and after ten days I was starting
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: to have a Belgian accent. Oh, I wonder if I
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: could master a Belgian accent. And that's your next goal.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: It's good to have goals. I'm convinced that if you
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: dropped me in Great Britain, I'd acquire a British accent
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Keep up the good work, So thanks Sarah
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Accent sponge. Uh here's one from Lloyd Kristen. This is
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: a Canadian dude listener. He wanted to specify that he's
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: one of our guy listeners and we appreciate it. Lloyd says,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I think Canadian up speak is more subtle than the
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: examples you gave. It sounded more like Valley Girl than Canadian.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: It seems Valley Girl up speak is up on the
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: second to last syllable than up again on the last syllable.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Canadians seems to be up on the second to last syllable,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: then flat or even down a bit on the last syllable.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna need examples, Kristen. I grew up in New Brunswick, Canada,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: and didn't really notice it until I was away in
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the US for a number of years and would talk
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: to people in the Maritimes, especially the rural areas. Given
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: all the Maritimes are pretty rural. I'm not much of
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: a linguist, so I had trouble putting my finger on it.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: But there seems to be a difference. Valley Girl just
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: sounds unsure and questioning. Canadians seems to end every sentence
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: with the tonal equivalent of you know what I mean,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: but I'm pretty biased, So thank you Lloyd. I'm trying
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to think of what that would be because he said
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: it would go flat on the second to last syllables
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: like yeah, up on the second to last, then flat
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: or even down a bit on the last stible. I
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: will be trying to think of anything, and when Kristen does,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: maybe we'll post a video for accent my yes uh
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: so so. Thanks especially to our Canadian listeners for writing
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: in to Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com. That's where
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you can send your letters. You can also send us
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Facebook messages like us there. While you're at it, you
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast and follow us
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: on Tumblr as well at stuff Mom Never Told You
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and you can read a lot
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: of articles over at our website as well. During the week.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: It's how Stuff Works dot com for more on this
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: dot com.