Latest / Other Peoples Parenting / The Ferber Method - Is It Really Just Cry It Out?

Transcript

The Ferber Method - Is It Really Just Cry It Out? · Other Peoples Parenting

0:00
Hello, everyone.
0:00
Welcome back to another episode of Other People's Parenting, where we read parenting books and review them for you.
0:07
I'm Skylar Hurwitz, amateur parent, and this is my mom, Karen Quinn, New York Times bestselling author and founder of Habit Coach and Testing Mom.
0:15
Hello, Mom.
0:16
Hi, Skylar.
0:17
How are you?
0:18
I'm much better now that we're in a real studio.
0:20
I know.
0:21
We're so happy.
0:23
We love the studio.
0:24
Yes.
0:24
If you tuned in for last week's episode, we're sorry if it was chaotic.
0:30
We were doing our best.
0:31
Well, yeah, we tried.
0:32
We wanted to try to do one on our own.
0:34
Yes.
0:35
Be industrious.
0:36
That's right.
0:37
Be brave.
0:37
We wanted to see if it could be done.
0:39
We wanted to lean in, I guess.
0:42
It was bad.
0:43
It was bad.
0:43
It was hard.
0:44
Gave us a newfound appreciation for all of the fabulous producers here at Theorist Studios.
0:49
So thank you, guys.
0:51
So, Tina, what book are we covering today?
0:53
Oh, today we are covering a classic.
0:56
A classic?
0:57
A classic.
0:58
This is Solve youe Child's sleep problems by Dr.
1:02
Ferber.
1:03
And he's, like, one of.
1:05
He is probably one of the most famous book authors for parenting books.
1:10
Most famous book authors.
1:12
I mean, his last name has become a verb.
1:15
Yes.
1:15
Are you Ferberizing your child?
1:17
Do people say, is that a Ferberizing?
1:19
Or are they just saying, yeah, okay.
1:21
Yeah.
1:22
Well, I don't know.
1:22
In my day, they did.
1:23
It's like, are you Ferberizing your child?
1:26
Yes.
1:26
Most of us did.
1:27
Yes.
1:28
Honestly, I Ferberized.
1:30
I am a big fan.
1:32
I will say I was very surprised by this book, because when you think Ferber, you just think, oh, cry it out.
1:39
Simple as that, Right.
1:40
No, no.
1:41
I also expected the book to feel really scientific, and Dr.
1:45
Ferber's, like, more relatable than I expected him to be.
1:49
Me, too.
1:50
Points off for the length of this book.
1:52
Oh, yeah.
1:53
It was really long.
1:54
Really long.
1:55
Here's the thing.
1:56
It's this book, and we'll get.
1:59
But it's like an encyclopedia of any sleep issue that could possibly come up with your kids.
2:07
I mean, starting from infanthood to teenagehood.
2:11
Yes.
2:12
If that's the right word.
2:13
Teenage hood.
2:14
Yeah.
2:15
I mean, it's for every age, because sleep problems come up all the time in many different circumstances.
2:22
I mean, there were things I had no idea about.
2:26
Night terrors and, I mean, I had.
2:28
I.
2:28
You know.
2:29
Yeah.
2:30
Well, didn't you read the book?
2:31
Yes, I read the book.
2:32
What do you mean?
2:32
You didn't know about night terrors?
2:34
Well, I never seen night terrors.
2:36
In action.
2:36
Just in like horror movies.
2:38
Have you ever had sleep paralysis?
2:41
No.
2:42
It's terrifying.
2:43
Have you?
2:43
Yes.
2:44
You feel like someone is crushing you and you're asleep, but you're also awake.
2:52
Your mind is awake, but your body doesn't know, so you can't move.
2:57
I've never had that.
2:58
Oh, wow, that's scary.
3:00
That sounds really scary.
3:01
No, no, I have not had.
3:02
I can confirm.
3:03
Yeah.
3:03
Okay.
3:03
Well, anyway, he covers everything.
3:05
I'm sure sleep paralysis is in there somewhere.
3:08
Maybe because he covers everything.
3:10
I mean, I don't think babies experience it.
3:11
No.
3:12
But older people, older kids might.
3:14
Older babies.
3:15
Right.
3:15
Okay.
3:16
Like me.
3:16
Yeah.
3:17
Okay.
3:18
Well, actually, let me.
3:20
I want to give a little background.
3:21
Give us the overview.
3:22
Macro Queen.
3:22
Of course.
3:23
She's back.
3:25
I know.
3:25
Well, okay.
3:26
I want to talk about why we decided to do this book.
3:29
And it's because we kept reading all these other books and they were so critical of the idea of sleep training a child.
3:41
And in all these other books, and I'll name a couple of them books like Being There, Good Inside and we actually loved Good Inside, not so much Being There, but the book you wish your parents had read.
3:56
They all really get into criticism of sleep training and the argument against it.
4:02
What they say is that if you let your child cry it out while they're learning to put themselves to sleep, it just teaches the child that you won't come to them when you're needed.
4:14
Like across the board.
4:15
Yeah.
4:16
It's gonna make them.
4:17
It's gonna totally interfere with healthy attachment.
4:21
This will har relationship with your child.
4:24
It will interfere with their whole future sense of security.
4:29
Psychological problems will follow.
4:31
I mean, it's like from sleep training.
4:33
Are you kidding me?
4:34
Yeah.
4:35
So, okay, I, I don't agree with that, obviously.
4:39
And in fact, one of the.
4:40
The author of the book you wish your parents had read, which we will.
4:43
Be covering in the future, we are.
4:45
Going to cover that book.
4:46
It's a good book.
4:47
Yeah, it's fine book.
4:48
But anyway.
4:49
But she says that even though the studies say sleep training works, the studies are flawed.
4:56
Yeah.
4:56
It doesn't work or you're gonna mess up your child.
5:00
Yeah, I think that's an insanely heavy handed thing to say.
5:04
Yeah.
5:05
Because also one thing I feel that these critics of sleep training don't consider is the parent.
5:13
Right.
5:14
It's like the child doesn't just soothe themselves.
5:19
You are expected every hour, however frequently your child wakes up in the night to break your sleep cycle and go and soothe your child.
5:29
Now the first few months I Understand, they're brand new, they don't know how to do anything and they are so fragile and delicate.
5:38
Once you hit about the six month mark, some people will say way before that, yeah, people start around three or four months.
5:44
I waited till six months because I like my heart could not handle.
5:48
But I just think that what about the psychological and physical well being of the parents?
5:55
If your parents are not well rested, that is not a safe parent.
6:00
Yeah, that's true.
6:00
You know, you need to be cognizant.
6:02
You need to be aware if you're being responsible for a child, if you are overly exhausted.
6:07
That is when bad things happen.
6:10
Right, right.
6:11
Well and so, and the interesting thing too that I, I saw was that all these other authors would reduce Ferber and other sleep trainers.
6:25
Cry it out.
6:26
To just cry it out.
6:27
Cry it out like you're being so cruel.
6:29
Oh, contraire.
6:30
And that's not what they're telling us.
6:32
No, that's not what they're telling us.
6:33
No, we're going to tell you what they're telling us.
6:35
Right, exactly.
6:36
So anyway, so we just wanted to get to the truth.
6:39
And honestly, I had used this book myself to sleep train you like a really a long time ago.
6:46
I'm 15.
6:47
I'm ruined.
6:48
Are you, Are you psychologically ruined?
6:51
No, I mean it's like I used it for you, I used it for Sam.
6:54
I mean it was great.
6:56
And it took just a few days.
6:58
It was no big deal.
6:59
It was like people make such a huge deal about it.
7:03
And listen, I get it because I just did this a few months ago and the first night is heartbreaking.
7:09
Heartbreaking.
7:10
My baby's crying in her room and I'm crying in my room.
7:13
But then the second day, if you stick to it, the crying gets cut in half.
7:18
Third day, that gets cut in half.
7:20
Now I put my baby in her bed, ensuring she's actually tired.
7:24
Right.
7:24
Like she has a bedtime that is reasonable for her.
7:26
I'm not just tossing her in bed at like 4:30, but like she goes in, maybe makes a few peeps or plays with her stuffed animals and then.
7:36
Obviously goes to sleep.
7:37
She calms herself, puts herself down, she rolls around.
7:40
Yeah, I've watched her on the monitor.
7:43
I know, it's so cute.
7:44
It's so cute.
7:44
It's her little personal time.
7:46
I know, I love it, but it's hard.
7:48
Like I get it, you know, it's.
7:49
I can absolutely empathize with the parents that are like, I can't do it.
7:52
It's like I don't blame you.
7:53
It is hard.
7:54
It takes a soul of steel.
7:56
Well, it sort of.
7:57
It does.
7:58
I mean.
7:58
Cause when you know what you're gonna be getting, it's like, it's worth it.
8:02
Yes.
8:02
The means justify the ends.
8:04
It does.
8:04
Or the ends justify the means.
8:07
I think the end's justifying something justifies something.
8:09
I mean, I think it's the end justifying the means.
8:11
So he says.
8:13
He writes in this book that he updated his book because there were so many widespread misconceptions regarding his method.
8:21
And he said his goal has always been to help parents understand how sleep works, determine the cause of their children's sleep problems, and then choose a sleep treatment that works for their own family.
8:34
Yes.
8:34
And he says that many people have misunderstood his work and they incorrectly describe it as cry it out.
8:40
The cry it out method.
8:42
And he says that leaving a child in a crib for a long period to cry it out until they fall asleep is not a method he approves of.
8:51
And so we'll talk about exactly how the method works.
8:55
Put some respect on Dr.
8:57
Ferber's name.
8:58
Yes, let's give it back.
9:00
Giving him back his name.
9:03
Well, he has it, I guess, but he's pretty well respected.
9:06
Yeah.
9:07
Anyway.
9:07
Okay, so what he says is that all kids have the capacity to sleep well, and everybody wakes up for brief periods of time throughout the night, as we know.
9:19
But this is called a sleep cycle.
9:21
Right.
9:21
Baby's sleep cycles are about two hours and adult sleep cycles are what, like three?
9:27
Well, they're different babies.
9:28
And yeah, he kind of.
9:29
There's so many.
9:30
He goes through the shift.
9:31
There are tables.
9:32
There are many tables.
9:32
Many tables.
9:33
Which, honestly, normally, personally, I hate a table and a chart.
9:37
But I like them because I'm like, I'm not going to interpret this next.
9:41
Right.
9:41
I just.
9:42
I don't really read.
9:42
I kind of go past them.
9:44
Yeah.
9:45
I need the verbal explanation.
9:46
I'm not going to dissect your teacher.
9:48
Tell me what that means.
9:49
Yeah, exactly.
9:50
But anyway, what he said is, and this is what's important is when kids don't sleep well, you have to be able to identify the reason they're not sleeping well.
10:00
And once you know what the reason is, you can intervene.
10:04
Common sleep problems are just like, difficulty falling asleep at bedtime, waking up during the night, not being able to go back to sleep, that sort of thing.
10:15
And he takes you through, like, at different ages, how long should a baby between three and six months sleep?
10:23
And he says between three and six months, they should actually sleep through the Night.
10:28
So if your baby isn't sleeping through the night by five to six months, then you probably need to intervene.
10:35
Yeah, so that's.
10:37
That's the thing.
10:38
Some people, myself included.
10:40
Yeah, My baby slept in my room until she was six months old.
10:44
Because that's what the hospital told me.
10:46
Okay.
10:46
They were like, babies sleep in your room until they're six months.
10:49
And I was like, okay, I don't know anything.
10:51
Yes, sure, the hospitals, they say that.
10:53
And.
10:54
And as she got a little older, she started sleeping for longer stretches, but she did still wake up in the middle of the night, like at least once or twice.
11:04
And sometimes I would feed her and sometimes I wouldn't.
11:07
Right.
11:07
And she would eventually fall back to sleep.
11:09
Well, that's like prime time for sids, you know, where they worry about sids.
11:14
So they often will recommend that you have the baby sleep in your room for that night.
11:18
Yeah.
11:19
So I remember telling the pediatrician, I was like, yeah, so she's in our room and she's only up, you know, a couple times in the night.
11:27
And we're sleep training her.
11:28
She's like, oh, Skylar, that's not.
11:30
That's not sleep training.
11:31
And I was like, are you sure?
11:33
And she's like, not yet, no.
11:36
Okay.
11:38
Well, anyway, the second chapter was a very.
11:42
That was like lots of tables and moves.
11:44
It got very scientific.
11:46
Yeah.
11:46
That's where they started explaining, like, how sleep works and what's the difference between different stages of sleep.
11:54
The non REM sleep, that's that really.
11:57
When your eyes move.
11:58
No, no, REM sleep.
12:00
REM is when your eyes are moving and you're dreaming.
12:03
Non rem, that's the really deep sleep that babies fall right into when they go to sleep at first and it's really hard to rouse them.
12:12
That's the deep, deep sleep.
12:14
But it's.
12:15
The REM is when you're having those dreams and stuff.
12:18
And they say babies actually have that kind of sleep in utero, which is interesting.
12:26
Like, they might even.
12:27
I know, I don't know if they're dreaming or what they'd be dreaming about.
12:30
But anyway, so he explains all that and he talks about different sleep patterns.
12:38
You know that newborns will sleep 16 hours a day, and by three or four months it's 13 hours and it gets less and less and less.
12:47
So the main.
12:49
A big point that he's gonna make in chapter three is you wanna have a sleep routine for your child and babies too.
12:57
Do you have a sleep routine?
12:58
Yes, I do.
12:59
Okay.
13:00
Leni has her dinner and Then she has her bath, and then we have snuggles, and then she gets her bottle and she goes to bed.
13:06
Okay, so you have a good sleep routine.
13:08
And we read, we sing, we do all sorts of things.
13:11
Nice.
13:12
Okay, so he says if your child isn't sleeping through the night by six months, then you might have to change the routine.
13:19
But the important thing is that you put the child down while they're awake.
13:23
Yes.
13:24
You don't put them down when they're already asleep.
13:28
Drowsy, but awake.
13:29
Yes, that's fine because it's just very, very important.
13:34
Because if you put them down when they're already asleep, when they wake up, conditions have changed and that's when they start to cry.
13:42
So you want to be able.
13:43
They're very confused.
13:45
Exactly, exactly.
13:48
All right, so then the book goes into all kinds of detail about all sleep related issues.
13:57
The challenges of putting twins to sleep and triplets, things that were not relevant to us.
14:03
God's strongest soldiers.
14:05
Parents of twins and triplets.
14:06
Couldn't be me.
14:07
I can't imagine.
14:08
Oh, my God.
14:09
But using transitional objects and toys.
14:12
I mean, he gets into everything.
14:13
That's why this is such a big book.
14:15
Because there's so many topics that he talks to you about that could be causing a problem, you know, getting your kids to sleep.
14:26
So here's the big, big chapter, the big one, because it explains how many kids just cannot settle themselves and fall asleep without their parents.
14:35
Help the sleepless child.
14:37
I know.
14:39
So it's true.
14:40
Okay, so the typical sleep associations that kids have is their parents hold them till they fall asleep, or the parents rock them or sing to them or rub their back, or they lie down next to them, or they
14:55
give them a pacifier, or they feed them and they fall asleep while they're feeding.
15:00
All these different things that might be happening, or they're watching TV with the baby, baby falls asleep, they put them in their crib.
15:08
But as I said, if they wake up and start to cry and in the middle of the night, you're gonna have to recreate that whole scenario.
15:16
Who has time?
15:17
I know, exactly.
15:19
So he says, never put your child to bed under one set of conditions and then move them to their crib, because if they wake up, the conditions are different.
15:30
They will cry and never put them to bed and then sneak away quiet because again, they'll wake up, you're not there anymore.
15:40
And that's just a bad situation for the child.
15:44
Bad situation.
15:45
Bad.
15:45
And so what he says is instead you want to do what he calls the Progressive waiting approach.
15:52
Or some people call it Graduated Extinction.
15:55
I don't like that.
15:56
Neither one is memorable.
15:58
And that's why people call it the Ferber Method.
16:01
Yeah, Graduated Extinction sounds bad.
16:04
I don't think I like that.
16:05
Yeah, well, I saw it referred to that in a lot of books.
16:08
But anyway.
16:09
Does your Pre K to 8th grader need help with academic skills but you want to avoid the cost of a tutor?
16:15
Join testingmom.com and your child will have access to any of the 30 plus premium learning programs on the TestingMom website.
16:23
These are the same programs that schools use to enrich learning in the classroom, like Study Island, Moby Max, Brain Pop, Scholastic, and more.
16:32
And if your child has an important test coming up, whether it's for a gifted program, private school admissions and mid year assessment, or end of year achievement test, your Testing mom membership gives you access to thousands of practice
16:45
questions just like the ones your child will have to answer for any test they take.
16:51
They can practice using Testing Mom's printables, interactive questions and fun test prep games.
16:56
For just about $10 a month, you can join the over 1 million parents who have used TestingMom to enrich their child's learning and and prepare them for school and testing success.
17:09
So anyway, he says if your baby's having trouble, they're waking up in the middle of the night, the first thing you have to do is identify, well, what was the condition that they need to unlearn.
17:20
Maybe you rocked them to sleep and they need to unlearn that.
17:23
Right.
17:24
So what you do is you go through your nightly routine.
17:28
You put your baby to bed while they're awake.
17:31
But.
17:31
But you don't rock them and you leave the room.
17:35
You come back after three minutes if your baby is crying and reassure her that everything's okay.
17:41
Stay for a minute or two, don't pick the baby up, but just leave.
17:45
That's what I had a hard time with, was not picking the baby up.
17:48
Yes.
17:49
At the beginning.
17:50
Well, I had a hard time with sitting outside the room while the baby was crying.
17:54
Well, you also had me in the day before Nanette.
17:59
And Nanit is the most amazing baby monitor on earth.
18:03
Oh, I did.
18:04
That's true.
18:04
And you can see the baby.
18:05
You guys were relying on monitors where you could only hear us.
18:08
Exactly.
18:08
And if someone was sleeping, I'm not making very many sounds, which is stressful.
18:14
Yeah, I mean, all I could do was hear you, but I would stand outside the door while you screamed.
18:20
I mean, that's.
18:20
I was like sitting there waiting I was waiting for the three minutes to.
18:24
To come up so I could go in and give you comfort.
18:28
But what he says is you start, you know, wait three minutes, then go back in.
18:34
When you go in, you stay for a minute.
18:36
Don't pick the baby up.
18:37
Minute or two, and then if the baby cries again after you've left, you come back in five minutes.
18:43
Okay?
18:43
Okay.
18:44
And then if the baby cries more after you leave again, come back in 10 minutes.
18:50
And.
18:50
And then when she stops crying or just mildly whimpers, you go in, but you kind of wait.
18:57
You, you know, let her.
18:58
She can see that maybe you're there, but you do it every 10 minutes until the baby falls asleep.
19:03
My experience was when I tried to go in and visit the baby and, like, show her I was still there, she would get incensed.
19:13
Okay.
19:13
She would get even more mad.
19:15
Okay.
19:15
Because I would be there, but I wouldn't pick her up.
19:18
She's like, what's wrong with you?
19:20
Yeah.
19:20
Are you broken?
19:21
So what did you do?
19:23
I just stopped doing that.
19:25
Because I stopped going in.
19:26
Yeah.
19:27
Because to me, it felt like when I went in, I was restarting the crying from scratch.
19:32
Whereas if I left her for a little longer, she would sob, sob, sob, mew, mew, mew, sob, sob, sob.
19:38
And then it would kind of, like, peter out.
19:40
Okay.
19:41
But as soon as it was, like, we were back at zero, when I.
19:44
If you walked in, she was like, really bad.
19:46
Okay.
19:47
Well.
19:47
Well, I don't know.
19:48
I don't know what Dr.
19:49
Ferber would say.
19:50
Although I have to go call him up.
19:51
But, you know, maybe it says in the book.
19:53
Cause he.
19:53
I'm telling you, he gives so many nuances.
19:55
Yeah.
19:56
It's very grand on the situation.
19:58
Like, that could have been there.
20:00
And I might have, when I was taking notes, just put the main idea in.
20:04
He might say, well, if this happens, do this.
20:06
You know, I'm telling you, he gives every nuance of every situation, which is why the book is so long.
20:12
And now we rely on teen's notes.
20:14
Because my notes look like a murder manifesto.
20:17
That's right.
20:17
Okay.
20:19
Anyway, gradually, he says, your child will learn new rules.
20:22
They won't understand them at first, but they'll know that you're nearby.
20:26
And they may be mad at you because you're not rocking them.
20:31
But since you do return, they know not to be afraid.
20:35
And eventually be not afraid.
20:38
You can go to sleep.
20:40
My mom is nearby.
20:41
I feel like every time they said that in the Bible, they would present the scariest looking person.
20:47
I am afraid but anyway, so eventually your child just says it's prefer.
20:52
I may as well just go to sleep because she's not coming.
20:55
Yeah, she's not coming.
20:56
And they give up to put themselves to sleep.
21:00
And like I said, they go into great specifics in this chapter.
21:04
So many different situations.
21:06
And he even brings up here the parents who worry that if you let a child cry, the experience will be traumatic and cause permanent psychological harm.
21:16
He says, no, this isn't true.
21:18
Allowing some crying while you help your child learn to fall asleep will not cause damage like this.
21:23
If anything, your child learns to sleep in a positive way and both parents will be happier.
21:30
Yes.
21:31
Young kids don't understand what's best for them.
21:33
They may cry when they don't get what they want.
21:36
That's just the way they are.
21:37
And as a parent, you want what's best for them.
21:40
And.
21:40
And a healthy sleep pattern is best for them.
21:44
So you just have to teach them.
21:45
I mean, it's kind of like potty training.
21:48
They don't want to be potty trained.
21:49
Yeah, kids don't want to be trained to do anything.
21:52
But guess what?
21:52
Welcome to life.
21:53
That's right, kid.
21:55
Yeah.
21:55
Life requires training.
21:57
That's right.
21:58
There are certain things you need to learn.
21:59
None of it is natural.
22:00
No one knows what we're doing.
22:02
But you have to learn at some point.
22:04
That's all right.
22:04
That's all right.
22:05
So anyway.
22:06
All right, so this is kind of the method, right?
22:09
Yes.
22:10
And you used it?
22:11
I used it.
22:13
I used it to great success.
22:14
My child is an excellent sleeper, although I think she's having a bit of a regression right now because she's teething, so I think her molars are starting to come in.
22:22
So she wakes up in the middle of the night really angry.
22:26
Oh, I know, but that's Daddy's job.
22:29
Oh, good.
22:29
You let him do that.
22:30
Oh, that's nice.
22:31
Well, what I was gonna.
22:33
I don't know.
22:35
One thing I learned about sleep training is that you think you've got it licked, and then you realize you don't because they go through different periods, different things happen, and suddenly they're back in your bedroom or whatever.
22:49
Oh, my God.
22:50
I didn't know where your bedroom was.
22:52
Right.
22:53
Well, we tried not to show you.
22:54
We tried to not even ever let you see it because we did not want our children.
23:00
I didn't even know that you slept.
23:01
Yeah, I was like, what's she doing right now?
23:04
No, we kept it secret.
23:06
Well, I'm here in the dark.
23:07
No, I'm looking for her bedroom.
23:09
Well, eventually you did find it.
23:11
Yes, I know.
23:11
Yes.
23:12
But anyway.
23:13
No, we really didn't want children in our bed.
23:16
And I know that there are, of course, parents who sleep with their kids, and that's a thing that people do.
23:22
We didn't want to do that.
23:24
Respect.
23:25
Yeah, that was our case.
23:25
I don't want to do that either.
23:27
I wanted to sleep through the night as best I could.
23:30
So anyway.
23:31
But then he gets into.
23:33
Let's talk about the next section, which is limit setting.
23:37
And this is.
23:38
You'll see.
23:38
This is going to start to happen when she starts talking.
23:42
When they're talking, it's like, mommy, one more glass of water, or, I need one other kiss, or just another story.
23:52
And so they're asking for things.
23:54
And if you allow that, that's limit.
23:58
You really need to set limits.
24:00
It happens with toddlers.
24:01
It happens with older kids.
24:04
And if you're explaining away your bedtime difficulties to the doctor and you're saying things like, well, he insists on this, or she demands this, it's like you're.
24:14
The adult in the room.
24:15
Right?
24:15
You have to be the adult.
24:16
Okay.
24:16
You make the choice to acquiesce or not.
24:19
Right.
24:19
So don't give in, you know, to this.
24:22
You have to set the limits.
24:23
That's your job.
24:24
So one thing he says is, don't let bedtime last so long that your child doesn't know when it's going to end.
24:33
Like, they're just.
24:34
I got to just keep this thing going.
24:36
I'm gonna be up all night.
24:37
I know my husband's gonna have a hard time with that.
24:40
Oh, if he says, daddy, one more.
24:41
Oh, my God.
24:42
Anything she wants.
24:44
I know.
24:44
Anything she wants.
24:45
I know.
24:46
Yeah.
24:47
No.
24:47
He says, no, you must stick to the rules.
24:49
And you have to say, this is the last story you're gonna get.
24:52
And then he gets into the whole thing about what happens when your child's old enough to crawl out of their.
24:58
Or climb out of their crib.
24:59
Right.
25:01
And what you have to do is you have to actually turn their bedroom into a crib or into a prison, kind of.
25:09
Yeah.
25:09
Like you would put a gate at the door and hopefully they can't get out the gate.
25:16
I'm anticipating some issues with that.
25:19
Not so much because of my child, but I have that really smart dog who can open anything and who always wants to be with the baby.
25:27
And if I separate her from the baby, she does whatever it takes to get back to the baby.
25:32
Well, you're gonna have to figure that out.
25:33
I'm gonna have to put them both in crates.
25:36
Yes, yes.
25:37
Well, that's what they say is that he does a whole chapter on how to turn the bedroom into, you know, a room that the child cannot get out.
25:47
Cause you don't want your child wandering the house.
25:49
I have a critique for this.
25:51
Okay.
25:51
So I learned after we read this that there's one part where he talks about you can put a mattress on the ground and sort of, like, surround it so that if they roll off the bed, you know, they're
26:04
just basically like, an inch off the floor so they don't get hurt.
26:06
However, you really shouldn't do that with mattresses.
26:09
Mattresses need to breathe or they start to breed bacteria and mites.
26:15
Well, that I didn't know.
26:16
Yeah, I didn't know that either.
26:17
Cause I was like, oh, that actually sounds, like, really nice.
26:19
Like, maybe that's what I did there.
26:21
For my baby, Remember?
26:22
Well, this again, teen.
26:23
This is why I am poisoned in the mind.
26:26
I don't know.
26:28
Because it was inhaling mites and mold.
26:30
I know.
26:32
In my crib.
26:33
And when I had that mattress, it wasn't a mattress.
26:35
It was a futon.
26:37
It was a futon.
26:38
There's a difference.
26:39
Okay?
26:40
And maybe it's different with futons, but mattresses need to breathe.
26:44
That's why there are slats in a bed.
26:46
That's why it's like, they don't just make beds with a flat board.
26:49
Sorry.
26:49
Okay, well, so maybe I gave you a futon that I was thinking it was a mattress.
26:54
Maybe futons are different because a futon feels like it belongs directly on the floo.
26:59
Okay.
27:00
I knew it was like a mattress on the floor.
27:01
Do you remember when we were doing renovations and we stayed at that lady's apartment, and she had all the shoji screens?
27:07
I do.
27:07
And Sam and I poked a million fingers through her.
27:12
All of her soji screens.
27:13
Yeah, I know I did.
27:14
God, we loved poking holes in the.
27:16
Shoji screens, and I had to replace them all.
27:18
I'm so sorry.
27:19
We didn't know, but we.
27:20
That was very expensive.
27:21
I'm sure it was.
27:22
It was authentic.
27:24
They were authentic, beautiful Japanese shoji screens.
27:28
Yeah, you should have taken those out of that room before you put us in.
27:30
I didn'.
27:31
He did not see us coming.
27:32
Didn't expect you guys to poke holes.
27:35
It was a paper wall.
27:37
Well, yeah, true.
27:39
Anyway.
27:39
Okay,.
27:42
So, okay, she says if the child.
27:45
Or he says if the child keeps escaping from the room.
27:49
Some things you can try are reward programs.
27:52
You know, like stars and you know, give the rewards.
27:55
If they stay in their bed, give.
27:57
Them an Amazon prime card.
27:58
Are you a member?
28:00
Yeah.
28:00
Something if you.
28:01
To keep them from, you know, they give them a reward or an incentive.
28:05
You can try that.
28:07
But this.
28:07
Isn't that just like rewarding bad behavior, though?
28:10
Well, no, no.
28:11
The reward is if you stay in your room and don't come out, you'll get a reward.
28:16
Like it's because you're trying to incentivize them.
28:19
I see.
28:19
And that's.
28:20
You know, honestly, I'm not usually in favor of those things, but if you have a child who's escaping the room and terrorizing the house in the middle of the night, it's probably something to try.
28:33
But he goes into all these stories about kids and limit setting and it's like crazy.
28:39
Some of the behaviors.
28:41
Some of these kids.
28:42
Well, think about it.
28:42
I mean, kids are just all id.
28:45
They're just little idiots and they don't know any better.
28:51
They're just causing havoc in the middle of the night.
28:54
And you know, parents chasing their kids.
28:56
I mean, those stories were crazy.
28:59
But I guess if you actually go see Dr.
29:01
Ferber, you must be in trouble.
29:03
Is he still alive?
29:05
Can we see doctor?
29:06
I think so.
29:07
I hope so.
29:08
Me too.
29:09
Because I feel like I was just talking to him when I was reading his book.
29:12
I know, but anyway, they were crazy stories about and.
29:15
But he has an answer for everything.
29:17
Yes.
29:18
That's why I love this book.
29:19
It's like whatever problem you have with sleep and your child, there is a.
29:25
At least something to try.
29:26
Yeah, totally.
29:27
That's what I love about that.
29:28
Yeah.
29:28
Ferber knows.
29:29
We love Ferber.
29:30
I love Ferber.
29:31
Yeah.
29:32
I'm trying to redeem his name because I don't want people in other books saying that.
29:37
That he shouldn't sleep.
29:39
Train your kid.
29:40
The people who are saying that he.
29:42
His method is.
29:43
I mean, some people go so far as to call it abusive.
29:46
These are people who I'm like, I don't want a parent like you anyway.
29:50
Well, I guess not.
29:51
You know, these are the type of people who I think let their kids run their life.
29:56
Yeah.
29:57
You know what?
29:58
Boundaries criminals.
30:00
That creates people who have no sense that other people exist or matter.
30:06
And if you can't.
30:07
And as somebody who hated authority as a child, like, I can speak on this.
30:11
Okay.
30:11
Because I was this child.
30:12
Yeah, you were.
30:13
And I was bad.
30:14
You were wild.
30:14
Yeah, you were.
30:15
Yeah.
30:16
And I'm telling you, it's.
30:17
It's not because you guys didn't set Limits, Although that was probably part of it.
30:21
But like, again, there were risky situations that I put myself in as a toddler that, like, you know, someone should have checked me, you know.
30:30
Well, we tried.
30:31
We did our best.
30:32
You did your best.
30:33
We did our best.
30:34
All right.
30:35
Does your Pre K to 8th grader have a high stakes test coming up?
30:38
One that would get them into a gifted program or a private school?
30:41
For about $10 a month, testingmom.com gives you thousands of practice questions, just like the ones that your child will need to answer for any test they need to take.
30:51
You can work with them directly using Testing Moms, printables, interactive questions, and fun test prep games.
30:57
If your child needs extra help, you can easily upgrade to one of our tutoring programs where a teacher will prepare your child.
31:03
And when the test is over, your child can boost their academic skills with any of the 30 plus premium learning programs that are free on the Testing mom website.
31:12
You'd never take an important test without knowing what to expect.
31:15
So why should your child join the over 1 million parents who have used Testing mom to prepare their Pre K to 8th graders for gifted admissions and achievement tests?
31:26
All right, so now another major source of trouble is nighttime feeding.
31:32
So he goes into a whole thing about nighttime feedings, about, you know, kids waking up and they're hungry, or they act like they're hungry, they want a bottle.
31:41
They act like they're hungry, but they're lying.
31:43
They're l.
31:44
They're.
31:44
They're baby liars.
31:45
No, no, they aren't.
31:47
They.
31:48
They get used to having a bottle in the middle of the night.
31:51
Didn't people used to give kids whiskey?
31:55
Or was that for teething?
31:56
Well, they did give it for teeth.
31:58
Not a good idea, though.
31:59
But, but yeah, they.
32:00
I think they would do it like for.
32:01
Or water.
32:02
If they're expecting milk and you give.
32:04
Them water and they're like, that's one of his solutions.
32:06
And that's one of the things I did with you.
32:08
Yeah.
32:09
Was that you wanted a bottle in the middle of the night.
32:12
This was on the.
32:13
That was my first experience with resentment.
32:15
You were mad.
32:16
You did not like it.
32:18
You would be like, what?
32:19
I felt this.
32:20
Well, what he says you can do is you can take the milk and you can start diluting it with water.
32:28
So at first it's just diluted milk, but suddenly it's just all water.
32:32
And the kid finally learns like, well, it's not worth getting up for water.
32:36
I mean, who cares?
32:38
And you.
32:39
I did that.
32:40
I had to do that with You.
32:41
So anyway, there you go.
32:43
There you go.
32:44
It works.
32:45
But he tells you how to do it.
32:47
He tells you how to deal with it.
32:49
He says, you don't.
32:50
You can be nursing your child.
32:52
You don't have to wean the baby.
32:53
He gives you.
32:54
Like, just don't nurse at night.
32:56
Yeah, just.
32:56
He teaches you how to, like, go, you know, down from all the feedings.
33:01
Yeah.
33:01
And I'll tell you, it's hard if you're nursing, not to nurse your baby when they wake up at night, because you know it will work.
33:07
Right.
33:08
You know it will put them back to sleep.
33:10
I know.
33:10
And for those few weeks that you are trying to get, you're exhausted, and you're like, oh, my gosh.
33:15
God.
33:15
And that's when it became Ben's job, when I stopped nursing at night, because I was like, guess what?
33:20
You can wake up now.
33:21
Yeah.
33:22
She doesn't need to eat anymore, so doesn't have to be me.
33:26
Oh, yay.
33:27
No, he always woke up with her.
33:28
He was sweet.
33:29
No, that's good.
33:30
He's good about that.
33:32
All right.
33:33
So they spend a lot of time on kind of getting through the whole dealing with feedings at night.
33:39
So, again, if this is an issue, this is the part you would want to read.
33:43
Then he gets into this whole thing about nighttime fears.
33:45
We're talking about older kids now.
33:48
You know, children often get scared at night.
33:52
And he says what you have to try to evaluate is, are they really scared or are they just stalling?
33:59
Because sometimes that can be a stalling technique.
34:01
And he says a genuinely scared child will become more terrified if they think you don't believe them.
34:08
They may cling to you and beg you not to leave them alone.
34:11
And if they really are anxious like that, you have to, you know, work with them during the day and try to figure out what's going on, you know, and it could be a scary movie.
34:21
They saw an illness in the family, a bully at school.
34:25
So many things investigate.
34:27
Yeah.
34:28
And he says he tells you how to deal with the fears, different techniques.
34:32
You know, you want to make their room a more enjoyable place during the day so they don't get afraid at night.
34:38
They might have to move, you know, stay with you at night temporarily until they're able to.
34:45
I feel like that's such a slippery slope.
34:46
As soon as you let your kid do that, once it becomes very difficult, I think you create a bigger issue.
34:52
Cause then they're like, oh, this is an option.
34:55
And it's an option I am being denied.
34:58
You know, although I do remember, like, right after 9, 11 happened when your brother, he got really scared and.
35:06
Which.
35:06
Fair.
35:07
Yeah, he was worried.
35:08
And so he ended up.
35:11
We ended up putting a little.
35:12
A mattress on the floor in our bedroom and he would sleep on the floor in our bedroom for like a couple of.
35:18
Maybe a month or two, I can't remember.
35:21
And then finally he moved back into his room.
35:24
Well, the monster under his bed was me.
35:26
Yes.
35:26
Because I slept under my brother's bed for whatever reason.
35:30
You did and he did.
35:31
Thank you.
35:32
They did say.
35:33
Or somewhere.
35:34
Oh, it was a different book.
35:35
I read that if your child wants you to look under the bed or in the closet for monsters, not to do that.
35:40
Really?
35:41
Yeah.
35:41
Because I don't remember that part.
35:42
It was in a different book.
35:44
Oh.
35:46
But this author said that because you're showing them that they could be real, if you're looking under the bed and saying they're not there, then you're.
35:55
I feel like that assumes that kids are operating on logic.
35:58
And I feel like.
35:59
Like kids don't really have a grasp on logic at that point.
36:03
Like, to them, a monster very well could be real or a monster isn't like, what we think of as a monster.
36:09
It could be something that is real, that scares them maybe, you know.
36:13
Yeah, that's interesting.
36:15
I.
36:15
Because I did.
36:15
When you guys worried about monsters, I totally looked under the bed and in the closet.
36:20
Yeah, you were inspecting.
36:21
Totally.
36:22
But.
36:23
But this book said not to, so I don't know.
36:26
Then there's a whole chapter which we're not going to go into on.
36:29
But there are all these medical reasons.
36:31
Kids might get colic, which I would like a clearer definition of because I've read all these different things.
36:38
They say that it has something to do with intestinal pain, gas or overstimulation, but they don't really know it.
36:45
Doesn't you think by now they'd know what colic is?
36:48
I know.
36:48
I feel like it's like a blanket term for just a fussy baby.
36:51
Yeah, could be.
36:52
Oh, he's colicky.
36:53
He's col.
36:53
Yeah.
36:54
Is that a pigeon?
36:55
What does that mean?
36:56
Like, is it just a feeling?
36:58
No, but that's what they say.
37:00
Maybe intestinal pain, gas or.
37:02
Yeah, but anyway, they said there's all kinds of, you know, medical issues that would keep a child up.
37:08
Ear infections, medications.
37:11
They're taking so many things.
37:13
And that might be a reason a child won't sleep, but again, he gives you ways to deal with it.
37:19
So then he gets into changes in the child's Schedule.
37:23
And how does that affect a child's sleep?
37:25
Yes, this was interesting.
37:28
He talks about how some people are larks and some people are owls.
37:33
Owls are naturally energized at night and larks are morning people.
37:38
You're a lark, Dad's an owl.
37:39
Exactly.
37:41
And you're an owl.
37:43
I'm an owl, you're an owl.
37:45
Sam is a lark.
37:46
What do you think Sam is?
37:47
Sam is both.
37:48
My brother doesn't sleep.
37:49
He never sleeps.
37:50
He works.
37:51
I know, 30,000 hours a day.
37:53
I know.
37:54
Well, every day.
37:54
Yeah, he does.
37:56
He works really long hours.
37:57
But anyway, so he said.
38:00
But she says even toddlers have these.
38:02
You can tell even when they're.
38:03
When they're toddlers.
38:04
Yeah.
38:04
Oh my God, I wonder what Lenny's gonna be.
38:06
Oh, I bet she's gonna be an owl.
38:08
I bet she's gonna be an owl too.
38:09
I feel like Ben's an owl also.
38:12
Well, anyway, okay.
38:14
Adolescents, okay.
38:15
They're.
38:18
When your child is a teenager, their sleep is less restorative than the sleep of a young child.
38:24
And it's a problem that most high schools start earlier than elementary and middle schools because the teenagers go to school like they're sleep deprived.
38:34
And it's really a problem.
38:36
It is a problem because you have.
38:39
To pay attention and focus and think.
38:42
I started having sleep problems when I was like 10, I think, but I was also on like a ton of Ritalin, so that probably kept me up as well.
38:50
Yeah, yeah, that, that probably wasn't good.
38:53
I didn't know you were having sleep problems.
38:54
Yeah, like.
38:55
Well that's why I was tired all the time.
38:57
Yeah, I would wake up because my dad would stay up late and like watch TV and have a heating pad.
39:03
He loved that.
39:04
Heating pad.
39:04
I know there are heating pads all over our house.
39:07
He loves it.
39:08
I don't know why, but anyway.
39:10
But I just remember I would always wake up around like one or two and I would wander into the living room and like have like a half hour hangout with dad and then try and go back to sleep.
39:19
Uh huh.
39:20
It was nice.
39:21
Brought you closer to dad.
39:22
He was always watching David Letterman.
39:24
Oh, but like old episodes.
39:26
Like it wasn't the episode of that night.
39:28
Well, that's because that probably came on later than he was an owl and he was up really late, you know, and he was asleep late too.
39:35
But yeah, it's kind of weird that.
39:38
Yeah.
39:38
In our family I get up early.
39:41
Dad, you know, sleeps late.
39:43
It's kind of interesting now then he gets into a whole area of sleep Phasing.
39:51
Like what happens if your child, you know, gets up too early or can't sleep at the time you're trying to put them to sleep?
40:00
Or if you have multiple kids, what do you do if they have to go to bed at different times just because of their own sleep?
40:06
So he gets into all of that.
40:08
I'm not gonna get in.
40:09
I don't think we.
40:10
Yeah, that's very granular.
40:11
And again, this book is like an encycloped.
40:14
So you consult it as you need it.
40:16
Yes.
40:17
That's the way to use it.
40:19
And one thing, though, that I think is really important is it does mess with your child's sleep schedule if you let them change their bedtime on weekends.
40:28
And that's a huge thing because parents often do let them stay up later on weekends.
40:34
And so if they go to school on Monday and they have a test, they won't do as well on the test.
40:40
There's been many studies of that.
40:42
Yeah.
40:42
Consistency is key.
40:43
Key.
40:44
Although that's really hard to do with teenagers because.
40:47
Oh, my God, don't bother teenagers.
40:49
Teenagers are their own people.
40:51
Yeah.
40:52
They want to stay up late and they want to sleep late.
40:56
I feel like teenagers are a wash.
40:59
Yeah.
40:59
What they.
41:00
They tell you to do is just try to help them understand how important sleep is.
41:05
That's probably.
41:06
Sure, that's super.
41:06
They probably care, but.
41:08
Right.
41:10
And there's some tools you can use to help them.
41:12
Like if you get them up a little early and put them in a really brightly lit room, that might help.
41:18
There are things you can do.
41:19
But.
41:19
He says, but anyway.
41:22
So I remember when I could sleep until 11 in the morning.
41:25
Now I couldn't sleep until 11 in the morning if I tried.
41:29
Yeah, I don't think I could either.
41:31
I get up pretty early, just six.
41:32
O' clock on the dot.
41:33
I'm like, you're so used to it.
41:35
Yeah, yeah, I know.
41:38
So anyway, he talks about how to figure out what time you should put your child to sleep based on their own real sort of circadian, circadian rhythm.
41:49
And so you can figure it out.
41:53
He talks about environmental disturbances that might be impacting their sleep.
41:57
If the room is not dark enough, if there are noises coming from the other room, you can use white noise generators to help parents arriving home.
42:10
Just when a child is supposed to go to sleep, that ruins bedtime.
42:16
Don't put a computer or TV in your child's room because it's just too tempting to watch.
42:21
Yes.
42:21
Don't let your child watch TV first thing in the morning.
42:24
Because they'll wake up early just to watch tv, Especially little kids.
42:30
And then older kids have the same problem on the other end.
42:34
They stay up really late to watch go on their computer or whatever.
42:40
And then he says, oh, this was fascinating, because I realize I do this all the time.
42:44
If you feel yourself getting a wave of sleepiness, like while you're watching tv, like, you could go to sleep right now.
42:51
He says, don't push through it.
42:53
Go to sleep then and there.
42:55
Because if you push through it, what happens is you get a second wind and then you can't go to sleep later.
43:01
No, I've had that happen so many times.
43:03
Oh, my God.
43:04
As soon as I feel an inkling of the urge to sleep, go to sleep.
43:07
I'm like, lights out.
43:08
That's what you do.
43:09
Silence.
43:09
That's what he says.
43:11
I learned that that was.
43:12
I'm doing it now because I think that was really important.
43:15
Yeah.
43:17
Okay.
43:17
So let's see.
43:20
Then we get into naps.
43:21
There's a whole section on napping.
43:23
How long kids should nap based on their age.
43:26
I hope my kid naps until she is 10 years old.
43:29
I hope so, but she probably won't.
43:32
It says here that at three months, babies take three naps a day, but they give up their evening nap by the time they're one.
43:41
An evening nap?
43:43
Yeah.
43:43
Did Leni ever have a nap?
43:44
No.
43:45
She takes two naps.
43:46
If I put her to sleep in the evening, she wouldn't sleep at night.
43:51
Okay, well, by age.
43:52
Well, she never did it then.
43:55
But it says they might stop napping.
43:58
They tend to stop napping between ages 3 and 4, but some will nap until kindergarten and others stop napping at age 2.
44:06
Oh, my God.
44:06
I was so depressed when you gave up your nap.
44:08
Oh, my God.
44:09
I was just so sad because, well,.
44:10
I'm not gonna be able to have a job when my kid stops napping.
44:14
Cause that's when I work.
44:16
I know.
44:16
I'm telling you.
44:17
Yeah, that's.
44:19
Although I guess eventually she'll, like, go to school.
44:22
She will.
44:22
I miss her.
44:23
No, I, like, dread the day she goes to school.
44:27
Well.
44:27
Cause she's my buddy and we do everything together.
44:30
I know.
44:31
I'm gonna just go to school with her.
44:33
I could brush up.
44:33
You could become a teacher and be her teacher.
44:35
I didn't even go to college, Mom.
44:37
Can you im imagine how much school it would take for me to become a teacher at this stage?
44:41
We could homeschool her.
44:42
You don't have to be a professional teacher to homeschool Should I be homeschooling anyone?
44:47
No.
44:47
Okay.
44:48
Never mind.
44:48
Okay.
44:49
Don't tempt me.
44:52
Never mind.
44:53
Okay, that's not.
44:53
That won't be the right thing.
44:55
Okay.
44:55
All right.
44:56
But the point is, there's a whole chapter on napping and also what happens when naps interfere with the.
45:03
The sleep schedule.
45:06
And yeah, one thing that I was interested to see is that some parents get upset when they get their kid on a sleep schedule.
45:13
Send them to school, the school lets them nap, and it completely throws off their sleep schedule.
45:19
But it's like, what do you do in that situation?
45:21
It's like, I know everyone else in the class is gonna nap.
45:23
Not my kid.
45:24
Keep him up.
45:25
Oh, you can't do that.
45:26
No, you can't do that.
45:28
Don't sleep.
45:29
Oh, wow.
45:30
No.
45:31
Oh, I didn't.
45:31
Yeah, I guess that's true.
45:32
I do.
45:34
That is a problem.
45:35
Well, and another tip that they gave that I thought was really interesting was if you wait until your child seems very, very sleepy before you put him to bed each night, you are waiting too long.
45:47
And this is particularly true if his behavior worsens near bedtime or if you have to wake him in the morning.
45:54
Infants and babies are ready to go to bed often before they look sleepy.
46:00
So don't like me.
46:01
Yeah.
46:02
Are you?
46:03
I'm ready to go to bed way before I look sleepy.
46:07
Okay.
46:07
Well, baby.
46:08
Babies and infants, and I guess toddlers are too.
46:10
The last few weeks, because it's summer, I get into bed.
46:13
It is fully light outside.
46:15
Oh, I do too.
46:16
I thought I was the only one.
46:17
I love it.
46:17
I'm like, Ah, 7:00pm it's so nice.
46:20
Oh, to me, that's like the best.
46:22
Getting into bed early.
46:23
I love it.
46:24
Okay.
46:26
They talk about partial wakings, sleep talking, sleepwalking, confusional arousals and sleep terror.
46:34
Sleep talking and sleep.
46:35
Sleepwalking is so scary.
46:36
Yeah.
46:38
What if you leave?
46:39
What if you leave the house?
46:41
I know I'm moving to a house, and I have so much fear around my child just walking out the door because there are no doormen to intercept my child.
46:50
Anyone with tips.
46:51
How do I prevent this?
46:52
Is this an irrational fear?
46:53
You walk through the door.
46:54
Yeah, but, like, she's a person.
46:56
She can figure out how a lock works.
46:57
She's very smart.
46:59
Well, not yet.
47:00
I mean, she's little.
47:01
She can't.
47:01
I guess that's true.
47:02
You could put it high up.
47:03
I mean, for now.
47:04
I mean, you know, you have to.
47:06
There are too many entrances to this house, too many ways to leave.
47:09
Right.
47:10
Well, you have to then start talking to her about why she doesn't want to leave.
47:14
It's like you don't want to see.
47:15
Do you know what's out there?
47:16
Nothing for you.
47:17
Nothing good.
47:18
Nothing good for you.
47:19
There are coyotes.
47:20
That's.
47:20
There are foxes.
47:21
Exactly.
47:22
Foxes are cute.
47:23
But you don't want to run in with a coyote girl.
47:25
No, no.
47:26
But anyway, he gets into all this is for older kids anyway, all of this stuff.
47:30
So this, all of this kind of happens when your kids get older.
47:34
They have some of these things start.
47:35
Potentially start to happen.
47:37
But he tells you what to do and he talks about these confusional events.
47:43
They happen during non rem sleep.
47:46
That's that deep, deep sleep.
47:48
And kids start talking or making noises anyway, they don't even remember it the next morning.
47:55
They get confused with nightmares.
47:58
Nightmares are just regular dreams that start out normal and then they turn frightening at the end.
48:04
And little children, they can't tell the difference between a dream and reality.
48:10
So when they have a nightmare, they think it really happened.
48:13
That's so scary.
48:14
Isn't that awful?
48:15
But Anyway, by age 2, dreams can become actually more symbolic.
48:20
And they might have wild animals or monsters representing their fears.
48:25
And that's when they think they can be real.
48:27
And then by five, they do understand that they've been dreaming, but they'll probably wake you up if they had a bad dream.
48:35
And by seven, they might be able to handle an occasional nightmare without waking anyone up.
48:40
Up.
48:41
I can't handle a nightmare without waking someone up.
48:44
Really?
48:44
Yeah.
48:45
I'll wake up my husband in the middle of the night to tell him that in my dream, he divorced me.
48:49
Oh, my God.
48:50
I know.
48:50
And he's like, well, I didn't.
48:52
And I'm like, I'm upset.
48:53
I'm mad at you.
48:54
Validate my feelings.
48:57
Wow, I'm a really annoying wife.
49:00
God, I don't know.
49:03
Yeah, I get very upset when I have a nightmare.
49:06
I'm like, oh, my God, that was a nightmare.
49:09
That was.
49:09
That was a nightmare.
49:10
That was a nightmare.
49:12
I can't believe I just dreamt that.
49:14
Horrible.
49:15
Honestly, even though I am a grown person, I still have nightmares about you and dad getting divorced.
49:20
And it makes me so upset.
49:21
Why?
49:22
I don't know.
49:23
You would never do it.
49:23
But still, I'm just saying, like, the dream happens and it feels so real.
49:27
I wonder what you're really worried about.
49:30
Well, the dream is always that you find a new husband.
49:33
I do.
49:34
Oh, good.
49:35
And I'm like, mom, what the hell?
49:36
Hell are you doing?
49:37
Is he younger?
49:38
Than dad?
49:39
Yes, he's younger than dad.
49:40
And then.
49:41
And Dad's just like, well, whatever.
49:44
That's what she wants.
49:45
That's kind of.
49:46
Would be his attitude.
49:48
That's his attitude about everything.
49:49
But anyway, on a scale of scientists to parent, how would you rate this book?
49:53
Oh, gosh.
49:54
Well, it is a scientific book.
49:58
Full of science.
49:59
Full of science.
50:01
But I would say it is.
50:03
Gosh, this is a.
50:04
This is like at least an 8 or 9.
50:07
It's a must have book.
50:08
Must have book.
50:09
I used.
50:11
You know, it got you and your brother to learn how to sleep.
50:16
I luckily didn't.
50:17
We never got into nightmares or any of those kinds of bedwetting issues that the book will cover.
50:23
But it's all there for you if you want.
50:26
If you need it, not if you want it.
50:27
You're not gonna want it.
50:29
No one wants this.
50:30
No one wants sleep issues with their kids.
50:32
What did you think?
50:34
I would give it a seven.
50:35
I think I would give it a seven.
50:37
It was easy.
50:37
Easy to interpret it, read more simply than I expected it to.
50:42
I expected it to be chart, chart, chart, chart.
50:44
Yeah.
50:44
And it wasn't that.
50:46
So I appreciated that and I see why people use it.
50:50
As someone who also employed this method,.
50:53
It was very effective.
50:54
I get rest now and I love it.
50:57
Okay.
50:58
Okay.
50:58
I love it.
50:58
Good.
50:59
So thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Other People's Parenting, and we will speak to you or see you next week.