Latest / This Film is Lit / Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen

Transcript

Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen · This Film is Lit

• 0:04
  Speaker A: This Film Is lit, the podcast where we finally settle the score on one simple Is the book really better than the movie? I'm Brian and I have a film degree, so I watch the movie but don't read the book.
• 0:15
  Speaker B: And I'm Katie. I have an English degree, so I do things the right way and read the book before we watch the movie.
• 0:22
  Speaker A: So prepare to be wowed by our expertise and charm as we dissect all of your favorite film adaptations and decide if the silver screen or the written word did it better. So turn it up, settle in, and get ready for spoilers because this film is lit. First your parents tell you to have hopes and dreams. Then they move you to New Jersey. It's Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen, and this film is Lit. Foreign welcome back to this Film Is lit, the podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books. This is. Our notes are way longer for this than I thought they would be, so we're gonna jump right into it. We have every single one of our segments. If you have not read or watched Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen, we're gonna give you a brief summary in Let me sum up. Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up. Mary Elizabeth Lola Sepp. Sepp. Sepp.
• 1:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, okay.
• 1:31
  Speaker A: Is a 15 year old girl who grew up in. This is sourced from Wikipedia. By the way. Is a 15 year old girl who grew up in New York City and wants desperately to become a famous Broadway actress. Much to her annoyance, she moves with her family to the suburbs of Delwood, N.J. of Delwood, N.J. but she confidently tells the audience a legend is about to be born. That legend would be me. At school, Lola befriends an unpopular girl, Ella Gerard, who shares her love for the rock band Sid Arthur. Lola idolizes the band's lead singer, Stu Wolf, but she also meets Sam, a cute boy who takes a liking to her and makes enemies with Carla Santini, the most popular girl in school. When Lola auditions for the school play, a modernized musical version of Pygmalion called Eliza Rocks, she is chosen over Carla to play Eliza, and Carla promises to make her life miserable. Lola also beats Carla on a dancing video game at an arcade, whereupon Carla reveals that she has tickets to the farewell concert of Sid Arthur, which recently decided to dissolve. Afraid of being one upped by Carla, Lola falsely claims that she and Ella also have tickets. She loses her chance to buy tickets and new clothes when her mother takes away her allowance and the concert is sold out. By the time she persuades Ella to pay for the tickets. However, Lola explains that they can buy tickets from a scalper and get Sam to sneak Eliza's dress out of the costume room for her to wear to the concert. On the night of the concert, Lola and Ella take a train to New York City. But Lola accidentally leaves the money for the tickets on the train and her plan to sneak into the concert fails. Lola, Lola and Ella finally give up and walk through the city to Stu's after show party. When they arrive, Stu stumbles drunkenly out of the building and passes out in an alley. The two girls take him to a diner to sober him up, but he hits a cop with a donut and the three of them end up at a police station where Lola gives her father's New York City address. At this point, Lola's dishonesty becomes problematic. When she first met Ella, she tried to impress her by telling her a dramatic story about her father dying years earlier. Ella highly values honesty, so she becomes infuriated when she discovers that Lola's story was a lie. After Lola's father arrives and they explain what happened, Stu gratefully takes them all back to the party where Ella forgives Lola for lying on the condition that she will never lie to her again, and the two girls see Carla, who sees them as well and looks upset. Lola talks with Stu about his work, but is disappointed to discover that he is an alcoholic. Back at school, Carla humiliates Lola by denying that she saw Lola or Ella at the party and calling Lola a liar. None of the other students believe Lola's story about being arrested with Stu and leaving her necklace at his house. Afterward, Lola goes home depressed and refuses to perform in the play, but encouraged by Ella to return, she arrives backstage just in time to prevent Carla from taking over her part. As she is about to go on stage, her mother wishes her good luck and calls and finally calls her by her nickname, Lola. The modernist interpretation of Pygmalion ensues. After a great performance that brings a standing ovation, the cast goes to an after party at Carla's house where Stu arrives to see Lola. Carla attempts to salvage her pride by saying that he is there to see her, but he is, but. But is proved wrong when Stu gives Lola her necklace in front of everybody. As Carla's lies become apparent, she backs away from the crowd on the verge of tears and falls into a fountain, greeted by everyone's laughter. In a conciliatory gesture, Lola helps her up and Carla accepts defeat. After dancing with Stu, Lola dances with Sam and they eventually Kiss the end. That is a summary of Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen, the film. We'll learn more about the book as we go. Katie, we do have a guess who this week do it. Who are you? No one of consequence. I must know. Get used to disappointment.
• 4:55
  Speaker B: She was wearing a nondescript pink A line dress and pink and white sneakers. The kindest thing you could say about her hair, which was twisted into a tight ball at the back of her head, was that it existed.
• 5:11
  Speaker A: Wearing non script pink alien dress, white and Blake pink sneakers. The kind of thing you say about her hair, which was twisted in a tight bald back red, was that it existed. An A line dress and sneakers. This could be Ella. I would. Would be my guess. It's kind of a plain description. I don't think this would be Megan Fox's character, Carla. The other thing I. The person it could be, potentially, would be the drama teacher, maybe or like her mom. It seems unlikely. I'm gonna say. Well, but see that hair that it existed might be the drama teacher. I'm gonna say this is Ella.
• 5:50
  Speaker B: It is Ella.
• 5:51
  Speaker A: It was close.
• 5:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 5:53
  Speaker A: I couldn't decide, but it's the. The outfit seemed like a younger person than.
• 5:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, the. The pink dress and the matching sneakers for sure.
• 6:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 6:03
  Speaker B: Sophisticated, beautiful, and radiating confidence the way a towering inferno radiates heat. She swept into the room in black trousers and a short black sweater as though she'd just stepped from the pages of Vogue.
• 6:17
  Speaker A: I mean, nobody jumps off the page to me here because the description is a little. Not what I would expect for the antagonist. But I'm still gonna say that this is probably Megan Fox's character. Carla.
• 6:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, it is. It's Carla.
• 6:32
  Speaker A: It's a very kind. Maybe not kind. It's a very positive description for what would become the antagonist of the story, if that makes sense. Yeah, like the sophisticated, beautiful. Like there's nothing in here that. That strikes me as like normally when in these kind of books, at least when you get the introduction of the antagonist, there's some sort of, like, there's.
• 6:52
  Speaker B: Some sort of clue.
• 6:53
  Speaker A: Clue or underhanded is something that like alludes to them being, you know, the villain. And here it just kind of reads as like a, like complimentary, which is interesting.
• 7:05
  Speaker B: All right, last one. With his black leather jacket, his Celtic tattoo, his beaded dreads, his multitude of earrings and his attitude, he is the antithesis of Carla Santini.
• 7:20
  Speaker A: I mean, I got to imagine that this is. Nobody in the movies matches his description. I don't think there's anybody with Beaded dreads. In the movie, the two. It's a dude. The two dudes who play any role in the film at all really are Stu and Sam. And Sam is just a nondescript high school boy. So I'm going to say this is Stu Wolf.
• 7:44
  Speaker B: This is actually a description of Sam.
• 7:46
  Speaker A: Really?
• 7:47
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 7:48
  Speaker A: Boy. They did not even get close. They were like, no, let's just make them a nondescript, like, generic.
• 7:54
  Speaker B: They gave him, like, fun boots.
• 7:57
  Speaker A: Did they?
• 7:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, he has like. There's a shot of his boots and they have like a design on them.
• 8:03
  Speaker A: Okay, I'll take it. Like, he does not have his outfits. I feel like he's mostly just wearing like T shirts and stuff.
• 8:09
  Speaker B: For sure.
• 8:10
  Speaker A: Like, he's not at all like the cool tattooed.
• 8:13
  Speaker B: He's just kind of a high school guy. Whereas in the book he's like the bad boy. The bad boy.
• 8:18
  Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.
• 8:19
  Speaker B: I mean, I'm glad they dropped the beaten dreads.
• 8:22
  Speaker A: Yes. But, yeah, they didn't keep any of it.
• 8:26
  Speaker B: No.
• 8:26
  Speaker A: That's interesting. All right, fair enough. Two out of three is not too bad. I have a lot of questions. Let's get into them. In. Was that in the book?
• 8:34
  Speaker B: Gaston? May I have my book, please?
• 8:36
  Speaker A: How can you read this? There's no pictures.
• 8:39
  Speaker B: Well, some people use their imagination.
• 8:41
  Speaker A: So one of the first things that really stuck out to me in the movie was that when we're. The film opens up on this, we will find out. Fantasy sequence comes clear pretty quickly because it's very heightened. But I wasn't 100% sure because I didn't know maybe this was gonna be the tone of the whole movie. You know what I mean?
• 8:59
  Speaker B: Well, you knew nothing about this going on?
• 9:01
  Speaker A: No, I knew absolutely nothing. So I was like. And I knew, but I knew that some people kind of described it as a little bit of a satire in some way and stuff. I was like, the opening, I was like, this could be a fantasy sequence or it could be the movie is just doing a heightened reality as part of what it's doing. Which it does kind of. But not. Not in the same way that this opening is. Which is. She's like, oh, mother. Like, it's. You know, Anyways. But as that scene ends, that fantasy sequence ends. We pull back and it's revealed to have been this like, pop up book that she makes. She makes these like, pop up books is the only way I describe it, where it's like paper cutouts that. And she creates like this building and the people on the street and they move and Stuff And I wanted to know if the paper pop up book thing came from the book because I really liked the transition in the movie in this opening from the fantasy real world opening into this like paper pop up book thing I thought was very clever and cool.
• 9:57
  Speaker B: That's not something that's mentioned in the books. But I also really enjoy that motif. I think it's really unique.
• 10:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's very cool. So the line I used is the opening quote. It was a line that I thought was very funny. I will say this the IMDb for this. I will often go to the quotes section to pull quotes out verbatim because when we watch the movie, I write them down as I hear them and try to remember them. But I will often go back and try to find the direct full quote. None of the best quotes from this movie are on IMDb. It's all just like random lines that aren't funny or interesting. It's like, why are these like all of the good lines in this movie are not on the IMDb quote page? Which I thought was crazy. But the line is, first your parents tell you to have hopes and dreams, then they move you to new. To New Jersey. And I thought that was a very funny line and I want to know if it came from the book.
• 10:43
  Speaker B: I don't think this is in the book. It definitely sounds like something that could be from the book, but I looked like a couple places where I thought it might be. I didn't have an ebook for this time, so I couldn't like keyword search. Yeah, I didn't find it when I looked for it in the hard copy. But if somebody has an ebook copy of this and wants to check for us and leave a comment for next time, go right ahead.
• 11:12
  Speaker A: So then we saw something in the movie that took me back because I was like, wait a second, I recognize this. And that is Lola shows up, I think for her first day of school. And she is wearing a pretty crazy outfit. But specifically with that or. And again, it's maybe, I don't know, she's wearing this necklace, which is a Coca Cola bottle cap necklace that is like strung like three bottle caps strung together with some chains in this thing. And I was like, wait a second, Katie, you have that necklace? And then I was like, do you have this necklace because of this movie? I would imagine so. Or else that's a crazy coincidence.
• 11:50
  Speaker B: I do have that necklace. I bought a cherry Coke version of that necklace on Etsy a couple years ago and I did buy it because of this movie. So I could be just like Lola. And I will post a picture on our socials.
• 12:05
  Speaker A: But is it in the book? Was my why I was asking about it?
• 12:09
  Speaker B: Sadly, no book. Lola does not have the same necklace that was a movie edition.
• 12:14
  Speaker A: So when Lola gets to her school, she kind of immediately at the bike rack, befriends Alison Pill's character, Ella is her name. And they immediately bond because they both realize they see stickers or patches or something on each other's bags and realize that they both love the band Sid Arthur and are big fans of it. So they immediately bond. And I wanted to know if Lola immediately makes a friend with a girl because they both love the same band.
• 12:44
  Speaker B: So we actually don't see them meet in the book. Because when the book starts, Lola has already been living in Delwood for, like, a year. Okay. And she does, like, initially up front. She does a little bit of, like, flashback to tell us how she met people, blah, blah, blah. So we do learn that the first thing they bonded over was their shared love for this band, which in the book is called Siddhartha. And I'm not really sure why the movie changed that.
• 13:15
  Speaker A: I imagine for cultural sensitivity reasons. Probably just thought it was a good idea not to have the band named after Siddhartha just for, like, to avoid any, you know, pushback or it's like, it doesn't matter. Just change the name. That would be my guess, at least. I don't know. So when she meets Ella at the bike rack, she very quickly, like I said, they bond very quickly. And Ella, I was kind of immediately taken with how, like, nice she seemed and, like, genuine because she has this line. I wanted to know if the line came from the book because it was like a. It kind of seemed like a very. I don't want to say modern line, but it did it. The way she says it sounded like something somebody today would say. I don't know. She's like, she. They've just met. And she says, ella Gerard, you are the sister of my soul. Along with a bunch of other things, because they're. They're so, like, on the same wavelength. And so one, I want to know if that line is in the book, because it felt like a modern line to me, which was interesting. But two, I'm not sure I'd call her a drama queen at this point was my note, because I'm like, she doesn't. And I still. That was maybe one of the things I had a hard time with in the movie was like, she doesn't seem like that much of a drama queen. She tells, like, one big, very specific lie to Ella about her dad, which is bad. But other than that, I don't know why she's such a, quote unquote, drama queen anyways.
• 14:41
  Speaker B: So that specific line I also could not find in the book. And then as to your other question, I wouldn't say that Lola is a drama queen in the sense that she, like, causes drama, but in the sense that she elevates everything to, like, theatrical levels.
• 15:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, I guess the thing that's. That I struggle with is that she didn't even seem that crazy.
• 15:09
  Speaker B: She definitely does more of the, like, kind of outlandish lying in the book than she does in the movie.
• 15:16
  Speaker A: I would have to rewatch it, but I don't remember an outlandish lie other than the very ridiculous and stupid lie about her dad being dead that she tells Ella. But other than that, I was like, what? She tells the lie about having the tickets to the thing. But that's like. That felt different to me. That's not like a. That's like a. Okay, she's beefing with this bully, and so she pretends that that's like, every character in a movie would do that. You know what I mean? That's like a. Every protagonist in a movie does. And then they have to, like, figure out how they're going to get out of that because they lied, you know? And so I was just like, I don't know. She doesn't seem like she. She's that dramatic. It really doesn't. She just didn't strike me as all that dramatic. I don't know. I liked her character. I thought she was an interesting character. I just didn't think she was like, whoa, what a drama queen. All right, I guess. I don't know. And this kind of ties into my next question because we move forward a little bit in time, and I'm not exactly sure how long, but. And her and Ella are hanging out, and Ella mentions that there's. There's some line about, like, her mom not wanting her to do so. I don't remember. But Ella says to Lola, I hate that their names are that close. It's very annoying to me. Ella says to Lola that, my mom likes you. She just thinks you're a little strange, and you are a little. And I was like, is she. I felt crazy. And maybe it's just like, this is 2004 strange. Whereas today they would have to be a much stranger character to be. She's just a person. I don't I felt crazy how like, Ella's like, you are kind of strange. I'm like, what's strange about her? She dresses a little audacious, but not even that crate. I don't. I don't know. I. But specifically, I guess my question is, in what way is she strange? Because she doesn't seem that strange to me.
• 17:10
  Speaker B: Okay, so I did find that line in the book because I thought you were also asking about that specific. So that is from the book. So the idea in the book is that the Gerrards, and according to Lola, most of the people in Delewood are basically like upper middle class suburban conservatives. So her, and by extension like her mom and her family being a little artsy is a huge departure from the norm for the people living around them.
• 17:44
  Speaker A: They're a little artsy. I don't think the movie does a good enough job establishing them as being, like, particularly different than the other people.
• 17:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, well. And I think part of the problem, I agree that the movie could have gone harder on Lola and her family. I think the movie also could have gone harder on making everybody else, like, very, very square.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: That's what I. I guess that would be a bigger thing because the thing that, like, I guess is that stood out to me is like, well, Ella seems very similar to Lola. Like, they get along great, they have the same interests, they seem kind of similar. Again, Lola dresses crazier. And again, in the, like, the only other adults we really interact with all that much are Ella's parents, who are kind of like coded as like traditional conservative. Ish. Ish. Yeah, kind of.
• 18:36
  Speaker B: But they end up being nice.
• 18:37
  Speaker A: But they end up being nice and they're not like over the top versions of it. And like the other adults, like, Carol Kane's character is just is weirder than anybody else in the movie and she's a tear. And so I just felt like, is she that weird? I feel like everybody and Megan Fox's character is as audacious as, like, in terms of like, dressing and being very, like, outspoken. I just felt like everybody was very similar, but we're all acting like Lindsay Lohan and her family are like, wild. And I'm like, I don't.
• 19:05
  Speaker B: I don't know. I think that's something that didn't really translate all that well from the book.
• 19:10
  Speaker A: And it wasn't like a major issue. I still enjoyed a lot about the movie, but I think that that kind of ties into my end issues that we'll get into later in Lost adaptation of Just felt. Felt like the movie didn't really have a point or wasn't making a point. And maybe the issue was less that it didn't make a point at the end, but that it didn't do a good enough job, like, setting all of it up, like. And like establishing these dynamics and like, why. I don't know. I. We'll get to it later. But like, I just had a hard time being like, I just really felt like Lola's character was not that interest. Not that she wasn't interesting. She was an interesting character. Her character was not that dramatic or crazy or anything to warrant like, all of this drama revolving around her in a way that, like, she needed to explain. I don't know.
• 20:02
  Speaker B: The movie definitely could have dialed it up.
• 20:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. Anyways, there's another great line where I think it's right after that where they're talking about her mom and she's like, oh, my mom, my mom's amazing. My mom who birthed me from her loins, whose milk fed my fragile body. And that line cracked me up. And I wanted to know if the line whose milk fed my fragile body came from the book because I thought it was very funny.
• 20:31
  Speaker B: That one does come from the book.
• 20:33
  Speaker A: Amazing. It's a great line. So we talked about the fantasy sequence at the beginning, but that becomes a recurring motif throughout the film. And it was probably one of my favorite things about the movie is these recurring fantasy segments. And I wanted to know if they felt like they came from anything specific in the book, like if she, you know, has these vivid daydreams that are described in the book or anything like that, or if the book or if the movie just kind of invented these for the film.
• 21:00
  Speaker B: So I was trying to remember any specific fantasy sequences from the book that feel similar to what the movie does, and I kind of came up blank on that. She occasionally imagines like brief scenarios like anybody would do, but it's not really like a full blown flight of fancy like we see in the movie. But I really enjoy that element in the movie, especially the way the visuals kind of move in and out of reality and like looking like the paper cutout I think is really interesting. It almost has like a fun kind of surrealist vibe or like a pop art vibe.
• 21:41
  Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. This movie is strongest aspect is its directorial vision, in my opinion. Like, it has. It's a little bit scattered and a little bit kind of chaotic. But I think that works in this movie because it's about a teenage girl, but it. Or just a teenager period. Doesn't matter. But So I think that that part. That. That aspect of it, like, visually, aesthetically, is, like, the strongest part. I think it just kind of lacks a little on, like, the script thematic side.
• 22:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, No, I agree. When this movie has, like, a strong vision is when it is at its best.
• 22:20
  Speaker A: And it does a lot of the movie, again, especially visually. It has, like, a strong voice, like, a strong directorial voice that I thought was really fascinating and compelling. It's just in service of a plot that I thought was a little lacking. Like. And even that, like, the meat of the plot was there. Like, I could see the pieces. It's just that, like, I don't think the script did a good enough job really fleshing that all out in a way where it felt like it all landed. Once we got to the end, it just kind of. It felt a little meandery and. And I guess maybe undercooked in terms of the script. Specifically, in the. In the scene where she's telling Ella that her dad was killed, there's this very funny line because this is one of the fantasy sequences as we see. This all happened in, like, the Paper Cut Out World. And she says her dad got hit by a bus or a. Yeah, well.
• 23:14
  Speaker B: He was, like, on his motorcycle.
• 23:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. And she's like. And they found him strewn across 9th Avenue and 10th Avenue, which I thought was very funny.
• 23:23
  Speaker B: That one is not from the book. In the book version of Lola's Tall Tale, her father dies. Similarly, a motorcycle accident. But it's while her parents are on their honeymoon to New Mexico.
• 23:35
  Speaker A: One of the major plot elements of the film is that her school is putting on a production of Pygmalion. And I wanted to know if. And that she's auditioning for. And that's like, her main. She wants to play Eliza. And that's where a lot of the drama comes from, because Megan Fox's character also wants to be the lead in the play, but Lindsay Lohan ends up getting it. But I wanted to know if. One, they're doing a production of Pygmalion in the book. And two, if Lola is mad that they're doing a modernized version of Pygmalion in the book because they're doing a version called Eliza Rocks, which is modernized and a musical.
• 24:14
  Speaker B: They are doing Pygmalion and both of the girls are going out for the lead, and Lola is mad that they're modernizing it in the book. A big part of the reason that she's upset by that is because she's been rehearsing for the normal version, specifically, she's been practicing a cockney accent.
• 24:34
  Speaker A: Okay. That makes more sense, because I was. I thought that was actually kind of a weird thing, was, like, her being so mad that it was being monitored. I'm like, well, who. Sure. Like, you're in high school. Why would you care? Most high schoolers would be, like, sick. I don't know. I just thought.
• 24:47
  Speaker B: No, she's been. She's been putting in her actorial work.
• 24:50
  Speaker A: Right.
• 24:51
  Speaker B: And she's been working on this character.
• 24:53
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:54
  Speaker B: It's also much more strongly implied in the book that Carla tricks Ms. Begoli into modernizing it, like, specifically to throw.
• 25:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, I. I got the impression in the movie, like, they. They make it clear that it was Carla's idea and that the. What is the drama teacher's name?
• 25:12
  Speaker B: Ms. Bigoli.
• 25:13
  Speaker A: Ms. Begoli is saying it was her idea, but actually, like, Megan Fox's character suggested it, but I did. Like, there wasn't any implication in the movie that it was in order to, like, sabotage Lindsay Lohan, I think, partially because I don't know how much time would have past if she could have even known, like, in the movie. I'm not sure if Megan Fox would even have known that Lindsay Lohan was gonna audition and would have been able to suggest it in order to see, you know what I mean? I don't know if they knew each other enough for that even to. To make sense in the movie, but that makes sense. One of the things I wanted to know is if Lola in the book talks with a similar speaking style and structure as she does in the film. I'm not sure how to describe it. It's maybe the most dramatic thing about her is that.
• 26:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's theatrical.
• 26:04
  Speaker A: Yes. She speaks with a very kind of overly formal and theatrical manner. And I wanted to know if that element came from the book, because that's really the only thing, in my opinion, about her that's, like, remotely dramatic. And it's just like, whatever. I knew a bunch of kids like that in high school that talked like, they. Like, they thought they were way smarter than they were. It's like.
• 26:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, I would say, kind of for this one. It's definitely something that's present in the book, but it feels heightened to me in the movie. And that may just be because the book is in Lola's point of view, and she does that way less in her own mind. So I think it feels like a lot less. But it's definitely, I think, something that's pulled from the book.
• 26:48
  Speaker A: Okay. One of the Things I thought was really interesting about Megan Fox's character, Carla in the film is that she's actually pretty smart. Like I was anticipating, especially for 2004, this character to be kind of the classic mean girl who pretends to know a lot about the stuff she's talking about, but doesn't actually. And the, you know, and it's just like kind of pretending and it's like, is able to fake her way through things by just being pretty and you know, popular is kind of what I was expecting. But the vibe I get from her character in the movie is that she actually is like pretty smart and like has opinions on these things. Like when they're talking about the play and modernizing it and stuff. And like Megan Fox chimes in with her opinions on it. It was not like what I would expect from the classic mean girl who's doing the play because she's popular, I guess. And I wanted to know if it felt like her character in the book felt similar.
• 27:45
  Speaker B: I do think her character in the book feels similar to what we get in the movie. I was not so sure that I found her characterization particularly unique.
• 28:00
  Speaker A: I, I thought for the time period it was a little unique, but maybe not.
• 28:03
  Speaker B: I don't know. I, I mean, I guess I don't.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Watch a ton of teen rom com dramas from.
• 28:08
  Speaker B: To me she's like, she felt pretty on par. Like maybe not similar to like previous iterations of a mean girl maybe, but like Regina George is also smart. The main girl from Heather's is also smart. Is she like in her own way? Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker A: I don't know something about the way she was portrayed in this. Like I, I feel like often and, and I, I would have to think of an example, but I feel like often that this character appears smart at first, but as soon as you ask, they get asked any question of any depth, it immediately reveals that they're stupid and that they're just faking or pretending. And I got the vibe from everything Megan Fox ever said in this movie that her character isn't faking or pretending and that she actually does care about this play and like about the story and like has actual opinions on it, I guess. I don't know, like, which I thought was interesting because I normally this character to me should be like, she pretends she's just doing this because she's popular and wants to be in the play and blah, blah, you know what I mean?
• 29:13
  Speaker B: I think it's hard to tell.
• 29:17
  Speaker A: I don't think.
• 29:18
  Speaker B: Well, okay, I think it's hard to Tell. Because we are seeing her through the lens of Lola, and everything that she's doing is kind of in response to. To Lola. So, like, as I'm. As I was reading the book, like, there. There are a lot of scenes where they're, like, at rehearsal and she's doing, like, script notes and, like, giving her opinions on this and that and the other. As they're, like, workshopping the play. But it's hard to tell if she's doing that because she cares about the play or because she's trying to mess with Lola.
• 29:56
  Speaker A: Interesting. I will say that was maybe one of the whole thing, the. Her whole character. I was. One of the biggest issues I had with the movie is that I kept waiting for the other rug. I thought. I felt like the movie kept setting up. That she's. There's something else going on here. That she is not just, like, a bully and a mean girl. That there's something else going on. Because again, every time in the beginning of the movie that we hear her talk about stuff, she doesn't. She. She sounds to me like she has actual, like, informed opinions on these things and actually cares about this, like, the play and stuff. And then, like, there's, like, other elements throughout. I kept expecting for a moment where. And we get it very cheaply at the end where she, like, helps her out of the fountain and it just kind of happened, like, oh. Like, oh, she was nice to her. I kept expecting for them to actually, like, commiserate at some point, like, have a moment where they, like, talk to each other and, like, realize they're a lot more similar than they think they are.
• 30:53
  Speaker B: There is kind of a small mom of that at the very end of the book.
• 30:56
  Speaker A: Okay. Because that's what I was.
• 30:57
  Speaker B: I would not say that it's particularly fleshed out.
• 31:00
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 31:01
  Speaker B: But there is a. A brief moment of that at the end of the book.
• 31:04
  Speaker A: I swore the movie was setting that up the whole time, and then it never happens. And that was one of my big disappointments, was I was like, that. It feels like the whole point of this is gonna be, oh, they're the same. They're, like, kind of the same person.
• 31:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because they are kind of the same person.
• 31:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And so I'm like, oh. And then. So we're gonna get to the end and they're gonna have a moment together where they realize that. And then maybe they even keep up. They keep pretending to hate. Not even keep pretending to hate each other, but they keep their rivalry and, like, you know, but they have a moment together where they, like, you know, acknowledge each other and see each other and kind of realize that they're. They're more similar than they thought. And, like, the movie pretends it does that at the end, like, with her helping her out and, like. And I think even the Wikipedia summary I read describes it that way, but I did not actually get. They don't have that moment in the movie, which I thought was disappointing.
• 31:52
  Speaker B: And it's possible that there was something that ended up on the cutting room floor. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Something else that I wanted to talk about, and this is just going to be me, like, giving my opinion. Something kind of different about the Carla Santini character that actually annoys me a little bit is that I feel like this type of, like, queen bee popular girl is not the type of girl that's into going out for the school play.
• 32:22
  Speaker A: No, I would agree, which is why I assumed she had to not be faking it, because it doesn't make any sense.
• 32:27
  Speaker B: But I feel the same way about Sharpay in High School Musical, and I totally get the idea of it being, like, an attention thing and, like, oh, I'm the star and, like, all eyes are on me and blah, blah, blah. But the thing is, is that the drama club queen bee exists, and she's a completely different archetype than the rules. The school queen bee.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:51
  Speaker B: Is two different people.
• 32:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. No, I agree. Which is, again, which is explicitly why I kept expecting this reveal at the end, towards the end, where they go, oh, we both actually really care about this. And, like, we don't need to, like, because it sure seems to me like Megan Fox's character in the movie really cares about this play and really wants to do it. And, like, not just for popularity reasons, but because she actually wants to be in this play and do play this character and that sort of thing. Again, I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but that was the vibe I got from her character watching the movie. And so I. I agree. And I thought that was going to kind of be the subversion is, like, why is she doing this? Like, she doesn't. Like, again, like, she's the popular girl who, like, everybody looks up to and is, like, worshipped. Why is she doing this play? Oh, we find out it's because she actually really likes doing, like, she wants to be in drama. Do drama. Like, that would be an interesting reveal. Like, oh, there's this other layer to her that is not apparent on the surface.
• 33:49
  Speaker B: Well, and I think that's part of the reason why it bugs me Is because we never do get that reveal in either the movie or the book. So it ends up to me just feeling like a misread of the character.
• 34:02
  Speaker A: I agree completely. And I think that was why. Yeah, that is why I had an issue with like the end of the movie and like her. It just. It felt like it just kind of fizzles. I feel like I'm dumping. I really actually enjoyed a lot about this movie. It's just. I felt like it just really like.
• 34:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, but that's also like. That's also why she doesn't really feel all that different from every other mean girl characterization to me. Because I'm not like, actually getting that, like, differentness or depth.
• 34:29
  Speaker A: Right. I think where I am is that Megan Fox plays her that way, plays her with this extra depth. And so I'm seeing it the whole time. We just don't actually get the scene to confirm it. It. Which felt crazy to me. Like, again, the whole time at the end of the movie, like, we're gonna have this scene where they like. And it just never comes. It just never happens. And I'm like, what? And like, like another example, the scene where they're leaving the party and. Or where. Where Megan Fox sees her at the part. Them at the party and like, like, like makes a face at him, like she looks like upset or something that they're there. I thought it was going to be revealed that she wasn't really upset that they were there, but something else had like, happened to her at the party or something. I don't know, that there was something else going on. The way she reacts did not. I don't know. I heard maybe I'm crazy. Her character felt completely not what the movie pretends that she is. And I felt like. I think you're right. To me, what it felt like is there was a different version of the end of this movie where they do actually give her character nuance and layers. And like. And like, they have them, her and Lindsay Lohan's character, like, have a moment together or something. And like, they. And then like, we do more with her character and they decided that it was like either too much of a mess or they. They didn't. I don't know. Maybe they did a bad job telling that part and they thought it would be easier just to re edit it to like a more straightforward. Like. No, they just kind of have a rivalry and then it ends. Like, I. Yeah, I don't know.
• 36:02
  Speaker B: I mean, maybe there. Maybe there's a director's cut of this.
• 36:06
  Speaker A: I Would be fascinated.
• 36:07
  Speaker B: Release the Sarah Sugar.
• 36:09
  Speaker A: I don't always pick up on everything, but her performance was implying that there was more than just surface level mean girl going on. In my opinion, then the movie kind of just gives us surface level mean girl.
• 36:20
  Speaker B: I mean, there are two more books in this series.
• 36:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 36:24
  Speaker B: Maybe there was something that was informed by stuff that happens in the second book. I don't know.
• 36:29
  Speaker A: Maybe. Speaking of another fantasy sequence, there's this great moment where when they find it, she hears that Sid Arthur has. Is breaking up or has broken up, and she sees. She then imagines this giant meteor flying towards the earth that says end of the world on it, which I thought was a lot of fun. And I want to know if that came from the book. But then right after that, her and Ella have, like, a morning. Like, they're handing out, like. Or they're trying to get. Or they're getting. Are they getting names on a. Yeah.
• 37:00
  Speaker B: They'Re, like, getting names on a petition and, like, handing out flyers to, like, try to stop the band from breaking up.
• 37:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, they're trying to get a petition signed to, like, stop the. From breaking up. But during that, they kind of have like, a little, like, morning session for the band. And so one the end of the world, Flying Meteor. But then during that morning session, I love that Lindsay Lohan has, like, a bunch of black balloons that she's gonna release in mourning. And she releases them and they just sink and fall to the ground, which I thought was very funny. I want to know if that came from the book. Also, Lindsay Lohan's costume in that scene is great.
• 37:35
  Speaker B: I. The costumes in this. I have a lot of notes about.
• 37:39
  Speaker A: Costumes are wild.
• 37:40
  Speaker B: The costumes, like, vacillate so wild for me from, like, incredible to, like.
• 37:47
  Speaker A: But they range for me from incredible to, like, incredibly bad in a fun way. Like, like, they're. They're not like. Yeah, even the bad ones are like, that's great.
• 37:57
  Speaker B: Like, yeah, somebody had a lot of fun with the costuming. Anyway, so Lola does describe hearing about the breakup of the band as the end of the world, but the meteor imagery is not from the book.
• 38:10
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 38:12
  Speaker B: She and Ella do dress in mourning attire, but the only garment that's specifically mentioned in the book is the. Is a black velvet cloak, which we don't see her wear in the movie. They also don't pass out flyers or have a petition or release balloons. But I really liked how the movie elevated that scene. I thought it was great.
• 38:34
  Speaker A: Another thing, I wanted to know if it felt like it was Reflective of the book is that the pacing in this movie, I thought was really interesting. The movie wastes absolutely no time, but in a way that I didn't find, like, it felt rushed or overwhelming. It just had a very constant forward momentum, and it. It trims all of the fat. Like, every. I don't know. Like, we just constantly go from scene to scene to scene in a way that I. It's kind of stressful, but not really. I don't know how to describe. I just thought the pacing was really well done where it just felt like we were constantly kind of like, accelerating towards the end of the movie. And it ends up being a letdown because the end of the movie, in my opinion, is not that great. But the pacing throughout most of the movie I thought was pretty good. And it felt like, again, we're not, like, wasting any time. And I want to know if the book felt similar.
• 39:27
  Speaker B: I think the book naturally, like, feels a little slower because there is a lot of additional time spent in Lola's head. Like, the book is, like 300 pages, so it feels a little slower. But I think if you, like, plotted it out, the pacing of moving from, like, event to event to event would be pretty similar. Yeah, things do happen pretty quickly in the book.
• 39:52
  Speaker A: I have two questions for this next part, both about Lola's mom. One is about a line she says, and then the second one is about her, but they're getting ready to. They're trying to go to the. Is it the party or the concert?
• 40:03
  Speaker B: I guess so there she's.
• 40:06
  Speaker A: I don't remember.
• 40:06
  Speaker B: She's talking about. She asks. She's telling her mom that she needs a great outfit for the cast party. But she actually means the concert. Right.
• 40:15
  Speaker A: But yeah. So she needs a new outfit for the concert. She says it's for the cast party. I think that's the. Maybe why I was confused. I wanted to know if this specific line. Because she says something like, oh, I need. I need to look absolutely perfect for the cast party, and so I need a new dress. And then her mom comes back with, do you think you could look absolutely perfect in something you already own? Which I thought was very funny. Want to know if that line came from the book? But also, I just thought her mom was great. And she was one of my favorite parents of an annoying teenager that I've seen in something in a while. I really liked her characterization.
• 40:48
  Speaker B: That specific line is not from the book. But her mom has a very similar energy from book to movie. Like, you can tell that she's often Annoyed by Lola, but also that she knows all of this stuff is temporary.
• 41:01
  Speaker A: She does a very good job. Yes, you can tell she's annoyed, but, I mean, you said it exactly. She could tell she's annoyed. But she's also very understanding that Lola's a teenager and that this is just how it is. And she doesn't ever seem, like, super upset or mad or like she's kind of very even keel while also clearly being annoyed at how dramatic her daughter. Again, I don't think she's that dramatic, but she seems, like as dramatic as every teenager is.
• 41:28
  Speaker B: But I think it's kind of doubly interesting in the book. Cause something that this book did a really good job of was we're viewing the mom through the lens of the teenage daughter.
• 41:41
  Speaker A: Right.
• 41:42
  Speaker B: So we get all of the kind of typical of, like, my mom is so uncool. My mom doesn't understand me. My mom doesn't want me to do anything fun. But at the same time, you can tell that her mom is not actually the way that she's describing.
• 41:58
  Speaker A: Right. Yeah, I guess. Because you're still getting, like, at least a somewhat or probably an accurate portrayal of the mom's, like, actions and words and stuff.
• 42:08
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 42:08
  Speaker A: So you get to be like, okay, but she's actually pretty reasonable and you're just a teenager.
• 42:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 42:14
  Speaker A: But then, yeah, you get her commentary on it.
• 42:17
  Speaker B: But I also agree with you about the movie performance. I think it's great. Her mom also reminds me a little bit of the mom in Easy A.
• 42:25
  Speaker A: That is the classic movie parents that people reference is the Easy A.
• 42:30
  Speaker B: And I like, especially on this viewing, I was like, I wouldn't be surprised. I can't remember who plays the mom in Easy A off the top of my head.
• 42:38
  Speaker A: Stanley Tucci and somebody.
• 42:41
  Speaker B: But I wouldn't be surprised if there was, like, inspiration drawn from this performance in this movie for that.
• 42:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, that. That would make sense. I could. I could totally buy that. Patricia Clarkson. No, Lisa Kudrow.
• 42:57
  Speaker B: No, Lisa Kudrow plays the, like, guidance counselor.
• 42:59
  Speaker A: It's Patricia Clarkson. Yeah. Yeah. Patricia Clarkson.
• 43:02
  Speaker B: Oh, we should watch Easy A. I.
• 43:04
  Speaker A: Love Easy A. I haven't seen it in years. I haven't seen it a couple times, but it's been a long time. Ella and Lola go to New York City to go to the Sid Arthur concert. And while they're there, they end up not being able to get in the concert because they don't have the money for the scalper tickets, blah, blah. And then they have to trek through the city to get to the after party or whatever. And either before the concert or after, I can't remember when a guy is following them.
• 43:31
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:32
  Speaker A: And it turns out that this guy is Lola's dad. So he's not actually dead. She was lying about that. She doesn't tell Ella this in this moment, but she goes and talks to her dad and is like, hey, you guys, stop following us. Blah, blah. I wanted to know if her dad follows Ella and her through New York to keep an eye on him because it was interesting. Her dad is also an interesting character because I couldn't also tell, like, what if he was in still together with the mom or not.
• 44:01
  Speaker B: No, no, no.
• 44:02
  Speaker A: Okay. Well, I like that then because they have a very, like, they seem to.
• 44:07
  Speaker B: Have a good co parenting relationship, which.
• 44:10
  Speaker A: Is kind of nice to see. But it. I couldn't tell. I was like, I don't think they're together because we never see him at the home with them. But maybe he's just working all the time. I don't know. Anyways, does her dad follow her through New York to keep an eye on them?
• 44:23
  Speaker B: He does not. And I have to say that I didn't really understand this decision by the movie. In the book, her dad does come to get them at the police station, which means that the movie then has to introduce her dad only to momentarily get rid of him somehow so that he could come right back.
• 44:44
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker B: And I didn't understand that choice, but I do have a theory, and it also involves the movie's decision to have the girls get permission to go to the city and the concert and then have Ella's parents meet them there.
• 45:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, that was a little confusing. They're going. And then they're going to be dropped off by somebody, picked off by somebody, stay at a hotel room with her parents or. I don't know.
• 45:09
  Speaker B: And this was another change that I didn't care for personally, because in the book they actually do the sleepover swap and then they go into the city without anybody knowing. And I'm wondering if Disney didn't want to seem like they were endorsing teenagers traipsing around New York City without parental supervision.
• 45:30
  Speaker A: I think that is the case, especially.
• 45:33
  Speaker B: If this was, as we've theorized, originally intended to be a Disney Channel original movie that would be mostly watched by a slightly younger audience.
• 45:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I could see that. I think that's definitely could be the case that they just didn't want to feel like they were endorsing, like, being like, yeah, it's fun to Go tell. Lie to your parents about going to a sleepover and then just go into New York City by yourself in the middle of the night when you're 16.
• 46:00
  Speaker B: But that kind of thing happens in plenty of other teen movies. Sure.
• 46:04
  Speaker A: I just think. But. But it doesn't happen a lot of other Disney movies, does it? I don't know. Disney's usually pretty. Like, they at least are more conscious of that, I think, than other.
• 46:15
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 46:15
  Speaker A: Things. But. Or. Or maybe just the writer and director specifically. Maybe it wasn't a Disney thing. Maybe because some writers are just like, hey, like. Because that is a conversation people have about, like, when, you know, doing children's media. What is your responsibility when showing that kind of stuff as not to glamorize it or. I don't know. It's tough to.
• 46:35
  Speaker B: And I'm not saying that it's a bad decision necessarily. I just think that the movie's way of getting around that felt a little messy to me.
• 46:48
  Speaker A: I didn't. Yeah, a little bit. I thought that part worked okay. I kind of liked introducing her dad there. And he ends up being kind of a nothing character that I couldn't really figure out, like, what his deal was. But I kind of liked the idea of, like, oh, he's, like, protective, but not, like, over. Not like a weird about it. He doesn't seem like. He seems pretty chill.
• 47:10
  Speaker B: And like, yeah, her dad's pretty chill guy, but.
• 47:12
  Speaker A: But he also, again, like, is somewhat. I don't know. I thought it worked okay. It's a little clunky, but yeah. So they get to the after party. Well, and a bunch of stuff has happened at this point, but they. They go to the after party. They find Stu. I think he's been. They get arrested. Like, all of that, I think, has happened at this point. And then they go back to the party with Stu that he's having, which is a. I guess it's. It's only a little bit later. He sobered up very quickly. He was stumbling drunk, like, falling into trash piles. And then it's the same party the same night, like a couple hours later. And he seems perfectly sober when they go back to the party site.
• 47:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. I'm, like, unsure how much time is supposed to have passed.
• 47:56
  Speaker A: Maybe the party's still going the next day or something.
• 47:59
  Speaker B: Because the party is also after the concert.
• 48:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 48:03
  Speaker B: Which he would think would be over a little later.
• 48:06
  Speaker A: I don't know. The timeline there does not really make a lot of sense. Unless, again, it's possible that it's like a You know, a rager that's like still going all night and like into the next day and the next night or something. And they come back the next day, maybe, I don't know. But anyways, it doesn't really matter. But when they get back to this party, Lola actually gets this. A chance to sit down and have a conversation with Stu, who is the lead singer of Sid Arthur, and immediately realizes, oh, this guy's an alcoholic, because he's. They came there, they arrived back to the party, he was sober again. And I don't know how long they've been there, but he is once again already wasted. Yeah, like, immediately. And he cannot remember any of like, the lyrics that he wrote.
• 48:47
  Speaker B: She wants to talk about his writing process because she loves his lyrics so much.
• 48:51
  Speaker A: And he doesn't care. He doesn't remember. He's just wasted and out of it. And I wanted to know if that scene came from the movie. Cause I thought that was kind of an interesting scene.
• 49:01
  Speaker B: So that one on one conversation does not happen in the book. I think Lola does get kind of similarly disillusioned by Stu. Not as disillusioned as Ella is in the book, but she definitely realizes, oh, he's not, you know, the. The kind of like, guy that I put on the pedestal.
• 49:21
  Speaker A: Right.
• 49:22
  Speaker B: And this specific scene. Any weirdness aside, which we're gonna discuss in the next segment.
• 49:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. Question.
• 49:29
  Speaker B: I do like this scene because I think it works really well to cap off the experience that Lola has just had, which is something that the book completely lacks.
• 49:40
  Speaker A: Interesting. Okay.
• 49:40
  Speaker B: Like, they have this whole experience where they're like, helping him through the city while he's stumbling drunk. And they go to the diner and they get arrested and her dad has. Get them. They go back to the party and then she just, like, doesn't talk to Stu again.
• 49:53
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 49:54
  Speaker B: So I do appreciate that the movie gave us this moment between them to like, put a bow on that experience.
• 50:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. And to make it clear to her because, like, yeah, the first time she's like, oh, he's a rock star. You know, he was drunk or whatever. But then immediately like, and he's drunk again and he can't even carry a conversation. She's like, well, this sucks. This is don't meet your heroes. Yeah. So then like the next day in class, or they basically. They're in class and Lola and Ella come in and they're like, Megan Fox is talking about the party and how great it was to be at the party or whatever. And they're like, oh, we were Also there. And Megan Fox just lies and says they weren't.
• 50:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 50:34
  Speaker A: And just, like, insists that they weren't. And everybody believes her. And she just kind of humiliates Lola in front of everybody by just insisting that she was lying. And then everybody does just assume that she's lying because of a handful of. Of specific things happen or there's some specific details that. With the story that.
• 50:52
  Speaker B: Well, because Carla brings up the fact that she's lied about other stuff. Right?
• 50:57
  Speaker A: Yeah. And so everybody now just thinks Lola's a big liar. And I wanted to know if this scene happened similarly in the book where Carla just kind of humiliates Lola in front of everybody.
• 51:07
  Speaker B: Yeah. This plays out pretty much exactly the same, with the exception that Carla doesn't call Lola out on her real name being Mary. But other than that. Yeah. Like, Lola and Ella come in, and they're, like, feeling triumphant. They're like, oh, we went to the party and she saw us, and blah, blah, blah. And then Carla's just like, no, I didn't. Which, like, why didn't you think of that? Of course she can just say, you weren't there.
• 51:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. So speaking of the. Her nickname and her real name being Mary, does her mom call her Lola? Right before she goes on stage for the play. So she's gonna not do the play. She ends up deciding. Ella comes and talks to her into doing the play. She rushes in, gets to do the play just in time, her mom shows up. And in the last, like, before she goes on stage, she's like. Calls her Lola, which is, like, the nickname she prefers instead of Mary. And I want to know if that happened the book, because I'm not sure it lands in the movie the way that the movie wants it to. Because I was like, oh, is that supposed to be, like, a moment? Because I will say this. I was very. I was very confused. Early in the movie, in my notes, I started writing Mary because I heard the characters calling her Mary. And then, like, 20 minutes in the movie, I was like, wait, isn't her name Lola? And then I looked at Wikipedia and saw Lola. And I was like, oh, her name's Lola. Why was I writing Mary? So I went back and switched them all.
• 52:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 52:24
  Speaker A: And then I realized, oh, her name is Mary. Lola's her nickname. And there must have been one line early in the movie that I just.
• 52:32
  Speaker B: There's a moment where she. When she gets to class, she goes up to Ms. Begoli and is like, I know it says Mary on the roster, but I prefer to go by Lola.
• 52:42
  Speaker A: I do remember that. I guess I was expecting some exchange between her mom and her about it.
• 52:49
  Speaker B: Might have been at the very beginning of the movie.
• 52:51
  Speaker A: Because if there isn't the payoff at the end seems not like a payoff, I guess. I don't know. Anyways, does that happen in the book? And it's almost like a Lost in adaptation. Is there more to why her mom doesn't call her. Okay, sorry.
• 53:07
  Speaker B: So that is not in the book. I did like that moment, though. I agree that it's probably not, well, set up enough by the movie. But I really like the thought of this final moment because her mom has been refusing to call her Lola the entire time. She always calls her Mary.
• 53:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 53:23
  Speaker B: And like, I. I like the thought of having that last moment. It's kind of cliche, but, like, where her mom is like, okay, I'm going to call you by this name that you prefer.
• 53:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think it could be a good moment. I just think the movie failed. It's possible that I failed to catch the setups. That's always a possibility. Whenever I say this, because we're taking notes, so there's things I miss. But I just felt like the movie didn't set up that enough for that payoff. Like, I knew she used the name Lola, but I didn't really. I guess I realized because I was writing Mary, because her mom always calls her Mary. But I felt like the movie never established any tension over that fact. I don't remember Lola, like, ever correcting her mom or, like, you know what I mean? Or like saying, I don't know. I don't remember any tension over it. And so making it a big moment at the end felt like. But did they? I don't know. I don't know. I just kind of felt like it came out of nowhere, But. So the performance of Eliza Rocks is a musical, as I mentioned. And one of my favorite little details about it in the scene at the end here is that the band that is performing in the pit because it's like a modern futuristic adaptation. Instead of playing normal music, they're all playing music on their laptops. And so they just have a bunch of MacBooks and they're just, like, hitting the space bar over and over again. It's very dumb, but very funny. And I wanted to know if that came from the book.
• 54:43
  Speaker B: That does not come from the book. But I also thought that was very funny. Very 2004. Kind of loved it.
• 54:49
  Speaker A: Yeah. So she does the musical. Everybody loves it. It's great. She has a great performance. They go to the after party. She has the big confrontation with Megan Fox, but then they end up making up. And then the big kind of happily ever after is that Stu shows up confirming that she wasn't lying by giving her the necklace that she said she left at his party or whatever. And then she dances briefly with Stu. And then it cuts to a fantasy, and she's dancing with Sam, a guy who's been in the movie for about 40 seconds before this part. Like Liter.
• 55:22
  Speaker B: He's had, like, two scenes.
• 55:25
  Speaker A: And then they kiss, and it's like a happily ever after. And it felt a little shoehorned in. I have multiple questions here. And then she has this line. It was the first time I realized reality could be more fun than fantasy. And I was like, oh, I guess that's the message we're going for. Again, I don't think the movie did a good enough job setting up her, like, living in a fantasy world all the time. It just seemed like she mostly lived in the normal world, but also told, like, a couple lies. I don't know. I just don't think that. I really don't think the movie set her up as, like, this overly dramatic, fantastical person enough. But is that how the book ends?
• 56:04
  Speaker B: No.
• 56:05
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 56:06
  Speaker B: None of this last sequence at the party is from the book.
• 56:10
  Speaker A: That's good to know because it all felt kind of just thrown together at the end.
• 56:15
  Speaker B: So the book ends with the play ending, and I kind of alluded to this earlier. The play ends, and then Lola and Carla have a little moment of understanding while they're both in the dressing room where both girls at least seem to grasp that they're more similar than they are different.
• 56:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, that would be great.
• 56:35
  Speaker B: Now, I will say the lack of a strong final message like that final thesis is something that I felt similarly about in both the book and the movie. I'm not sure that that last line works as a thesis for the movie at all.
• 56:49
  Speaker A: No.
• 56:50
  Speaker B: And I think the book's thesis is supposed to be Lola learning that she doesn't need to lie or exaggerate in order to be, like, interesting or worthy. But that also doesn't stick the landing, in my opinion.
• 57:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think they're kind of similar idea. Like the movie's going for kind of the same idea. Yeah.
• 57:09
  Speaker B: I'm a little mixed on the movie's final scene, personally. It does feel tacked on, because it is. And I understand the thought behind it. And I think it arguably maybe wraps up the narrative a little better. Than the book does. But I also think that having a triumph scene where Stu Wolf shows up in front of everyone and proves that Lolo is actually telling the truth kind of cheapens what she was supposed to learn.
• 57:41
  Speaker A: Fumbles the landing so.
• 57:42
  Speaker B: Well, if she was supposed to learn to be okay with not being in complete control of the narrative at all times and that the movie doesn't root. The movie whiffs at the. At the end.
• 57:55
  Speaker A: Well, and. Because, like, it's. It's. It's this weird hodgepodge of like, okay, the message is like, it says, like, it's. It's better to live. Or she. What was the line I said? Sometimes it's better. It's. It was the first time I realized reality could be more fun than fantasy. So the idea is like, okay, all this lying she's been doing, which she hasn't been doing that much lying in the movie, but whatever, let's pretend she's been doing all this fantastical lying in the movie. The idea is that she doesn't need to do that. She can just tell the truth and live her, like, live her authentic life or whatever, and that can be fine. And so then she gets this comeuppance for telling the truth in the movie. Cause she tells this story about Stu and being at the party and all that, and the movie goes, gotcha. You're. You get your come up. It's. Even though you were telling the truth in this instance, nobody believes you, I guess because the idea is that you've, like a boy who cried wolf kind of thing. Yeah, I don't think the movie did good enough setting that up. But then him showing up and being like, oh, actually, all the stuff she said did happen. So all of you who were making fun of her for lying, you're actually wrong. But also, somehow the point is still that Lola learned a lesson even though she was telling the truth. And this climactic moment is her being vindicated in everything she said. And it just. It's. It's a mess. Like, it just doesn't.
• 59:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, the. I. Yeah, I. The. The end of the movie is like a hodgepodge of things. And I don't feel like they had a strong idea of what they wanted to say.
• 59:35
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 59:35
  Speaker B: And unfortunately, I do feel like that is a carryover problem from the.
• 59:40
  Speaker A: I think. I think if. If they had stuck the land, if the set it up a little bit better but then stuck the landing, like if they had a very specific point that they were trying to make, and maybe they did, and it Just. They just failed at it. But I feel like part of the issue is there wasn't. It doesn't feel like there was a very specific kind of, like, point that they were trying to arrive at, that they were kind of like, I don't know, they just meandered to the ending. But if they had had a more concrete point that they were getting to and set it up better, I think this movie could be a classic, because I think it's really well made. I think the performances are all. I think everything about it is good, other than some of the script is just lacking in kind of thematically setting up and paying off, like, what the whole point of all of this is.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think there are a lot of moving parts and the script is not always doing a good job of moving them.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with that. All right. Those are all my questions for. Was that in the book. Look, I do have one question, though, and so a little bit of stuff to talk about in Lost in Adaptation.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker B: Just show me the way to get out of here and I'll be on my way.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker A: Yes, yes.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker B: And I want to get unlost as soon as possible.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker A: My main question here is, how old are Stu Wolf and Lola supposed to be? Because, like, isn't she in high school? And he's like an adult rock star.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker B: So you've noted the main modern criticism of this movie. So, yeah, Lola is supposed to be, like, about 16. I think the. The summary from Wikipedia says 15 in the book. She can drive, so 15, 16. Somewhere in that range. High school age.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker A: Right?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker B: A minor.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, I would imagine. My guess was that she's like a sophomore junior.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker B: Yeah. Like, she doesn't seem like a senior.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker A: But maybe she is. I don't know.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker B: Somewhere between 15 and 17. Yeah. Would be my guess. Yes. Stu Wolf, as you suspect, is a full grown adult man.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker B: Now, I've heard a lot of different opinions on this because anytime I see somebody talking about this movie, I. I seek that out because I don't find people talking about this movie a lot. Now, one. One interpretation of this that I find really interesting is a read of the movie as, like, the ultimate teen girl fantasy about meeting your celebrity crush.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker A: Right. I think it's clearly what it's doing.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker B: Like, not only does Lila get to meet her hero, she literally gets to live out an I can fix him fantasy.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, she gets to. And she gets to go through the, like, don't meet your heroes, like, kind of arc. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker B: Unfortunately, it does end up Reading pretty weird. Maybe there was no way to completely avoid that with some of the stuff that the movie adds. But I don't think it's helped by the fact that Adam Garcia, who is 13 years older, and Lindsay Lohan have like chemistry in this movie. Like way more chemistry than she has with her age appropriate love interest, partially.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker A: Just because of screen time. Yeah, Sam is in the movie for 30 seconds, but also they should have made him older if they're gonna do this. I think the problem is that the guy playing the rock star almost looks young. Like, yeah, he, like, it's hard to tell how old he is.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker B: Looks young enough. Yes.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker A: And that's what makes it weird. You're like, wait, is he an adult? Or if he was like clearly like a 40 year old man. Like, if he was, it would still be creepy and like, I think maybe you could. It would read less like the movie was being ambiguous about like, like if he was like very clearly this is like an adult like 35 year old man and not a guy who looks like he could be 20 or could be 30. Like. Yeah, I don't know, I think maybe that would help it because then maybe he could play it a little more like paternal or something to where like he could, like, she would be crushing and like, clearly, like, I don't know.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker B: And that is what they should have gone for, I think was that fatherly.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker A: And that's what I'm saying. But they needed that actor then to be older. They needed. But I don't think they wanted to do that because they wanted the kids watching the movie be like, he's a hot rock star. You know what I mean? Like, so I don't know, it hits like a weird spot where I'm like, I think they just, if they're going to do that, they. Yeah, they should have just made him, which I think they could have done because there's plenty of like, you know, 40 year old rock stars that high schoolers are attracted to and like, and you know, have crushes on or whatever. Like, I think you could pull.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think you could pull that off.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker A: And I think then you have him be. And I will say it doesn't seem like Stu's necessarily like into her.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker B: No, I don't, I don't think he's supposed to be.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker A: And it doesn't read that way necessarily. But I think it would have been helped even more if he had been a little older and played it a little more paternalistic maybe.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker B: No, I agree. Something else that I stuck in here Because I didn't really have a good place for it. Because I. I don't really know if this is better in the book or the movie, but I think it's really interesting that in the book we know right away that Lola is lying about her dad being dead because we're in her point of view. But the movie gets to make it like a surprise reveal kinda. I think both versions work. I also think the difference is interesting. So I just wanted to note that somewhere. But I don't have. I don't really want to call that better in the book or better in the movie because I think it works both ways.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. I will say I don't know if I was surprised because, well, I was surprised, but not really. Like, as soon as I saw the guy following, I was like, oh, I bet that's bad.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's not like a surprise surprise, but I think it's an interesting difference between like, oh, you know, immediately as she's telling the lie versus, like finding out later that she lied.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker A: And a 13 year old might not have. Might not put it together as quickly as I did and be like, oh, that's her dad. You know, like, you know, when you're 13, they might not have. Yeah. I've watched a lot of movies, so I kind of figured out what was going on there. But yeah, all right, those are all my questions. It's time to find out what Katie thought was better in the book. You like to read?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker B: Oh, yes, I love to read.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker A: What do you like to read?
• 1:06:05
  Speaker B: Everything. I am of two minds about the movie, making the play a musical. It's not a musical in the book. It works and I think it's really fun.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker A: I thought it was a lot of fun. I. I loved. I had to know about later, but I loved their version of Changes that they do in that. I thought it was great. I thought it was like a really fun arrangement of changes.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker B: So I think it works. I think it's fun. I do like it. But also I was thinking back on our Freaky Friday episode as we were like going into this episode, and something that I talked about in that, that I really appreciated was their restraint and not making Lindsay Lohan singer of the band.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker B: And that same kind of restraint is simply not present here. And to me, that is a big part of what makes this movie feel more like a Disney Channel original than like a theatrical film.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker A: Well, particularly the moment where she performs to camera for like.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, that scene. That was like pretty clearly a tie in. Yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker A: Music video.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker B: That was like, meant to air on Disney channels.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker A: Like, it seems to be like the. The encore or something. Like it's. I thought they had already come out and like, yeah, done the like, yay.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker B: But then the movie like sticks that in.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker A: Like, and now one more song and it's like. And then she performs it to. Can't really. This is like a music. What is happening. Yeah, no, I, Yeah, I would agree with that.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker B: And I. And I do want to say that I do think it is fun and I do think that it generally works.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker B: But it also, to me is something that makes the movie feel a little bit lesser. Yeah.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. Another big part of that is that the freaking audio mix is terrible.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker B: Oh, is it? Well, it's not the audio mix, stuff like that.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker A: It's that it's so clearly a pre recorded. It's probably Lindsay Lohan singing because I don't sing. But like, it's so very clearly a pre recorded studio. Like all of the songs is her singing in a studio that they are then piping over this performance. It just doesn't sound like a theater. Like, it doesn't sound like her singing live in a theater. It sounds like, like her singing in a studio that is then being played over her performing in this theater, which. Which adds to the like, fakeness of it all, which then pulls it and makes it feel less like a real. You know what I mean? Like, like a very simple audio fix of just mixing her. Her vocals so that they sound like they're being sung live in a theater. And not being recorded in a production studio would have helped that even a little bit more. And then also the whole part where she's performing to camera, obviously.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker B: But yeah, something that the movie cuts out is that Lola's younger sisters don't share a father with her. And her mom was at one point married to another guy. She like, had a stepfather for a while. And Lola also kills him off. When she's telling Lola, like in the same breath that she kills off her father and she's like, oh, and also my mom was married again and that guy died tragically too.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker B: I never really liked the. The race down the hallway to get to the cast list. This is not something that happens in the book where they're like running down the hallway and like throwing the garbage cans and running into doors.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker A: It's fine. It's.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's like kind of cartoony in a way that I don't really care for.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker A: I think what they should have done is they should have leaned fully into the Fantasy moment there. If they're gonna do that, have them do that. But then lean fully in and make it like a fantasy sequence where they're like, yeah, they're. They. They're like. They're like racing. And it's like I. I would have to think about how exactly to do it, but it. Because it. You're right. It borders on this weird kind of like we have these fantasy sequences and then we have the quote unquote real life of the movie. And the real life is heightened. Obviously, it's a movie still. But this race part feels like somewhere.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker B: Between the two of them nebulous in the middle.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker A: And I think they should have just pushed it. It into the fantasy.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker B: And I think if they had pushed it a little bit more, I would probably like it just fine. But, like, as it is, I was always kind of like, it's going to say the same thing no matter who gets there first. So I don't understand why we're running to it.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker A: Never race to the. The board to see who was on the.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker B: No, because it's going to say the same thing no matter what. I might get there.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker A: None of your time. The kids weren't like, like rushing up to the board to see who got what.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker B: Other kids, not me.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker A: Okay, sorry. I guess my point was that it's a very like. Yeah, you made a. And I agree with you. I'm just saying, like, it didn't feel like a crazy thing because of like, I knew tons of kids that would like, you know, run to the. The board to see, like. Yeah. The casting or whatever.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker B: I thought Lola's Gandhi cosplay during her hunger strike was a little.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker B: Probably not aged. Aged a little sour on that one.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker A: Particularly if they did change Siddhartha to be more.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker A: Socially.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker B: That was why I was a little caught off guard when you said that. I was like, oh, I forgot.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker A: I had forgotten about the Gandhi.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker B: But then they have this, like, scene where she's, like, wearing a bindi and, like, dressed as Conti.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker B: The movie has we. So we didn't put her in brown face.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker A: So we got.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker B: That is true.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker A: Because they very easily could have done a bunch of bronzer and been like, like, see, it's just her bro. You know, like, they could have done a gag where she puts a bunch of bronzer on or something.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker B: It was 2004.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. Like that it could have very quickly got into bigger. Oof. Territory. And they didn't do that.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker B: At least we were all bronzed. In 2004. So we do see in the movie, Sam sneak into the drama room and steal the dress. But the movie totally skips the scene where we know he. How he. That he knows how to pick locks because she. Lola goes to get her mom's car from the mechanic, and it turns out Sam works there, but that's already closed. And, like, the office is locked. And she's like, my mom's gonna kill me because I didn't get here in time. And Sam is, like, super smooth and is like, don't worry about it, and picks the lock to get the keys.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker B: Which, like, far more compelling love interest stuff than anything we see in the movie. Another scene that I thought was funny in the book was that after he steals the dress, Ms. Begoli's car won't start, so they have to, like, do the nice thing and give her a ride home with the dress in a bag in the car. I like that the book has Ella try to bluff for Lola when they're trying to sneak into the concert venue. And, like, Ella gets in, but Lola doesn't. And the book has her, like, turn around and be like, well, she's with me. What are you doing? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Just let her in. She's with me. She's with me. Which we don't see in the movie. This goes back to what you were talking about. Something that the movie doesn't do much with is that Lila is, like, constantly making up insane stories.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker A: This would have helped a lot to.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker B: Get people to accommodate her. Like, at one point, they're in the city and they're trying to take the bus over to Soho to get to Stu Wolf's house, but they don't have exact change to be able to get on the bus. So she makes up this wild story about her sister being home alone and unable to walk. And the only way that she can get her is by taking the bus. And please, sir, won't you please take pity on my poor sister who can't walk?
• 1:13:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The movie needed more of that.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker B: Yes, she does that pretty frequently throughout the book.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker A: That would have helped a lot.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker B: An exchange in the book that I really liked. When they're wandering around the city, Lola says, this is my city. I know it as well as I know my own room. To which Ella dryly responds, your room isn't this big.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker A: That's true.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker B: Another line from Ella that I really like. When they're stumbling around with Stu Wolf, and Ella's like, we don't have adult supervision. And Ella's like, of course we do. Stu Wolf's an adult. And Ella says, stu Wolf's not an adult. He's a rock and roll star.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker A: Isn't that in the movie? I think they say that in the movie. That really rings a bell for some reason.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker B: It might not be, but if they say that in the movie, then we can. And move that one to the movie. Nailed it. I did not catch it.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker A: I remember when they're in the. There's something very similar to that when they're in the alleyway, like, following him, and they're like, we want to follow this. Yeah. I think that's what they say. Then we want to follow this adult into. Into a random alleyway. And she says, he's not an adult. He's a rock star or something. Like. Or something. Like, there's. I swear there's something like that in the movie.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker B: I will also argue that there's a contextual difference there.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker A: I would agree. Yeah. I'm just saying. Yeah. I think that line. I was like. I remember that line. Something like that line.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker B: My last note for better in the book is that in general, I think Ella has a much better character arc in the book than she does in the movie. She arguably has more of a character arc than Lola does in either medium. Ella really goes from, like, very timid and, like, submissive to really assertive and kind of take no shit did. And I think that arc is present in this. In the movie.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker A: It says it is.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker B: The movie tries to do that, but the book's version is much better.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, I could believe that because that's one of those ones the movie says that's her arc. Like, she says to Ella or to Lola at the end, like, you made me more confident or what? I don't know. Whatever she's, like, trying to, like, but.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker B: We don't really see her.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like we don't really get much of that. Yeah. All right. That was everything Katie thought was better in the book. Let's see what she thought was better in the movie. My life has taught me one lesson, Hugo, and not the one I thought it would. Happy endings only happen in the movies.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker B: I appreciate that the movie shows them moving and, like, leaving New York City. I was kind of taken aback when I started the book and they were already living in New Jersey.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker B: I like that when we meet Carla in the movie, that Lola is, like, genuinely nice to her at first.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker B: Like, she's, like, interested in, like, trying to have a conversation with her. She was ready to be friends yeah. And Lola didn't want it, or Carla didn't want any of it.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker B: I like the cafeteria scene where Carla implies that Lola should be, like, part of her crew, where she's like, you should be hanging with us.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker B: Because in retrospect, it makes this movie play like it's an alternate universe. Mean girls, where Katie doesn't start hanging out with the Plastics, the Choose your own adventure book.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker A: And she turns to a page.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker B: Yes. Where she, like, becomes a theater kid instead of, like, hanging out with the mean girls.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker B: A little exchange that I really enjoyed in the movie. After they look at the cast list, and Carla's like, well, I got a good part and it's the one that I wanted. And Lola is like, good, because it's the one you got.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker B: I really appreciated the movie's decision to move Carla telling Lola about the concert and the party to an arcade and a Dance Dance Revolution knockoff game for no real reason other than that it's fun. Like, that exchange happens just like in the cafeteria in the book. But, like, the movie was like, no, we need a fun, crazy scene here.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker A: It's a fun scene. And Lindsay Lohan's outfit in the DDR scene is utterly insane. It's. Her outfits are crazy in a lot of the movie, but in that she's wearing this, like, New York Knicks jersey.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker A: With, like, a hat and a, like, chain. She just. It's. It's so much. It's like, what is going on? What are you wearing?
• 1:17:50
  Speaker B: I already talked about, like, we already talked about some of our issues with the characterization of Ella's parents and how was kind of squishy in the movie. But in a particular exchange that I really liked was when they're talking to them about the concert, and her dad's like, well, why didn't you just ask us, pumpkin? And Ella's like, I didn't know I could.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker A: That was a good scene. I felt like there needed to be more of that to establish. I felt I was like, oh, that's at least gives me a little bit about their dynamic. But it. Yeah. Which I maybe was fine because it's not like the main whatever. But. Yeah. I also liked that exchange.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker B: A line from the book. Specific line that's not in the movie. When Lola's thinking about what she wants to wear to the concert, she thinks to herself, or should I look natural and unpretentious but unique? So he'd know right away that I was different to other girls. And like, okay, we all think that when we're 15. I get it. But also their concert outfit.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker A: Is the book not commenting on that, though? Is the book not? Do you don't think the book is going maybe?
• 1:19:01
  Speaker B: I don't think it's commenting on it a lot if it is.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. So I was just wondering.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker B: Their concert outfits make way more sense than what's described in the book. And the book sent me on a journey with this because I was unable to picture the dress that Lola steals as it was described in the book. Okay, so. Oh, my God. She says that it was. It was red satin and long and devastatingly simple. And she's wearing it with a pair of red satin stilettos. So that gives me like a Marilyn Monroe vibe. Like a long, like. And she says, I prefer full flowing skirts. But even I had to admit this dress was hot. So that gives me like a Marilyn Monroe vibe. But then later she describes herself as looking like. And this is a direct quote from the book, as looking like a gypsy queen in the dress, which doesn't match with what was described earlier. And then later she describes the dress as looking like something that a modern day Scarlett O'Hara would wear, which doesn't match with either of the things that she previously said. Unreliable narrator Katie and then I was like, and now who. Who is wearing a full length satin gown to a rock concert? That's an insane thing to wear to a rock concert. Even, like, a really cool one in Madison Square Garden. That's an insane thing to wear to a rock concert.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker A: I will say I thought even their dresses in the movie were a little crazy to wear to a rock concert. They're a little, like, involved and like, prom y or whatever.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker B: Like, like the. The dresses in the concert, I think, look a little more like maybe like, club attire. They're definitely closer what you've described in the book. I was like, what? I was reading this book and I was like, what are we even talking about? One thing that the movie leaves out that I thought was smart, given all the other changes that the movie makes, is that when they're talking to Stu in the diner, he's, like, convinced that they must want something from him. And he's like, what do you want? Do you want autographs? Do you want money? Do you want a quick roll in the hay? And I was like, I know he doesn't know. They're teenagers at this point. Probably a good idea to leave that out of the movie, considering everything else.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker B: I love Stu's reaction in the movie when Ella says So you killed your father and he just looks over at Lindsay Lohan like, oh, shit. I also really liked the movie's decision to have them, like, play dress up with abandon in Stu Wolf's closet. It kind of doesn't make sense, but it's a fun scene in the book. He just gives them sweatpants and T shirts. I also liked the little shot at the end of Ms. Begoli dancing with Stew Wolf.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker A: Yes, I laughed at that. I thought that was funny. Making sure we're implying that maybe he's not going to end up with one of the teenagers at this party, but.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker B: Instead the full grown adult, a slightly older woman even. Perhaps. We love that. And my last note here is something about the book. At the beginning of the book, it introduces the idea that actually Lola is writing this book as a final assignment for her English class. An element that vanishes immediately, never to reappear again.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker A: All right, so, yeah, doesn't seem necessary. Let's go ahead and see what the movie nailed. As I expected, practically perfect in every way.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker B: The line, I've known my true name is Lola since I was 5 years old, as well as the line in my family.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker A: Okay, well, that would have helped. I don't remember that line at all.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker B: She says that in her voiceover when they're in the car leaving the city.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker A: I was writing other notes at the time. I remember writing notes during that.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker B: Also the line, in my family, I am a flamingo and a flock of pigeons. She does refer to Delwood as Deadwood. Her room is the sun porch.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker A: Oh, was it?
• 1:23:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a sunroom.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker A: I didn't even realize that she says.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker B: That briefly in the movie. Yeah.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker A: Didn't really look like it in the movie to me. Maybe it was hard. I just don't remember.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker B: But I. The way that it was described in the book I thought sounded really great. I would have been happy to have it as a teenager. She also refers to Stew Wolf as the greatest poet since Shakespeare. Carla's line, except nobody gets mugged in the Milky Way, is from the book. Also, Ella never had a fella, which is an insane insult for a high schooler to come up with, in my opinion. Yeah, my mother doesn't approve of microwaves. Her mother is also a potter, and her dirty overalls and the chopsticks in her hair are also described in the book. I also want to say, for the record, that I think it's a bit rich of Lola to insist that her mother is frightfully boring and ordinary and nothing like her when her mom is a artist.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker A: That's the. That's the joke.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker B: I know.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker A: That every teenager assumes their parents are boring.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker B: I understand that. That's the joke. Still a little bit rich. Ye, though they do try to buy tickets from a scalper at the concert, but they left their money on the train. I also went on a journey with this, because in the book, she kept saying, a tout. I can buy. We can buy tickets from a tout.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker A: T O u T. Is Diane Sheldon British?
• 1:24:55
  Speaker B: No.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker A: Oh.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker B: Which is why I was so. I was like. I was reading it. No, she's American. Oh, go on this journey with me. I was reading it, and I was like, a tout. I've never heard that used in that context. Like, I know the word like, to tout something, right?
• 1:25:11
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker B: But I've never heard it used in that context. So I Googled it, and it is, like, British slang for a scalper. Like a ticket tout. So I was like, why is that? This is an American book by an American author.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker A: When is this?
• 1:25:26
  Speaker B: So, hold on.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker B: I flipped to the copyright page, and lo and behold, I have a British imprint of this book, and they changed that word out.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker A: Interesting. That makes sense. I was gonna wonder if maybe it was a more modern printing, and I haven't thought about this ever, but is scalper, like, problematic? I don't.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker B: Oh, I don't know. I've never thought of that either.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker B: I don't know what the word is at all.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker A: So I. It could very well could not be. But, yeah, I have no idea. And I'm like. I was thinking maybe they were like. Like it was a more modern printing, and they're like, let's. But I. I've never heard anybody discuss that. I've always just heard people say scalper. I've never even seen Discourse.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker B: No, I've never. No.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker A: So I don't know. But I have no idea. But I just thought about it. I was like, maybe that's. I don't know.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker B: The Girls do follow Mr. Santini's car to get to the party venue, whereupon Steel Wolf comes stumbling drunk out of his house. As they're trying to, like, bluff their way in, they do follow him and then find him in a pile of garbage. The most colorful garbage pile I've ever seen.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker A: Color of trash.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker B: Like, pastel trash bags. And then they take him to a diner. Basically, all of the stuff that Stu is like, drunkenly yelling while they're at the diner is from the book. There's more in the book.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker A: Does he throw a donut at a police officer.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker B: No. Ella does freak out thinking that Lola gave a false address for her dead father to the police. Her dad is super chill. And we do find out that this is, like, briefly mentioned in the movie. I don't know if you caught it. That Stu Wolf is actually a fan of her dad because her dad writes and illustrates children's books that he really likes.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker A: I think I remember some line about. About the dog or something.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker A: But I didn't catch enough of it to know what it was in reference to or, like, what it was.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, the movie really, like, passes over that super quickly, but that's what happened. End. Lola does try to convince everyone that she's telling the truth by, like, getting up during rehearsal and confessing that she took the dress, which is insane to me. I don't know why she thought that would work. I feel like even in high school, I would not have thought that that would work. And then Carla's line, have you finally had enough? Is also from the book. And Lola is going to skip the play. And then Ella comes and bullies her into going also from the book.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker A: All right, let's get to a few odds and ends before the final verdict.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker B: Okay, so we've talked about the costumes a little bit throughout, but I want to talk about my favorite costume in this. Like, the first, which I die for, is Lola's I Heart New York outfit with the mesh overshirt with the heart cut out. Iconic.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker A: I recognized it. I was like, I've seen this before.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker A: To be fair, you've probably showed it to me before.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker B: But I also love that as she's riding her bike to school on the first day and daydreaming, she just slams into a tree. No indication of what caused her to veer off the road. She's just. Just suddenly on a lawn and boom. Tree.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. I think that maybe that's a reference maybe to a thing I have later. We'll see.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker B: Okay. I also. I don't think I had ever noticed the guy eyeing her suspiciously at the bike rack. Did you notice that? Watch that. We don't have to watch that scene again because it was cracking me up. When she's having that first conversation with Ella, there's a guy who's also putting his bike on the bike rack, and he's doing a comically overacted, like. Like, I'm not sure, double take and, like, staring at her.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker A: I did not even notice that. That's funny. I thought it was really funny and kind of interesting. Seeing, like, weird seeing Lindsay Lohan and Megan Fox, like, a year or two before they really blew up. Particularly Megan Fox.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker B: Yeah. She looks so young.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker A: Sounds so young.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker B: Yeah. Megan Fox, particularly Megan Fox, particularly.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker A: She has. Yeah, she. She has. Still has some of, like, baby fat on her face and stuff. And, like, they're. She. Especially Megan Fox, but also Lindsay Lohan. They don't have the. The. The rasp in their voice that they have, like, literally three years later or whatever when they, like in Transformers and, like, the other movies.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker B: Vocal Fry was real big back then.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker A: It was.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker B: It was real big.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker A: It was. And, like, they. Like I said, they don't really have that yet, so they sound like. Like, they just don't sound like them, and they kind of look like them, but not. It was just very weird seeing them, like, again, like, a year or two before they became really popular. And, like, my brain has a very vivid image of Megan Fox and Lindsay Lohan seared in from, like. Yeah, like, the Transformers and, like. Like, when they blew up.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker A: And. Yeah. So seeing them right before that, I'm just like.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker B: And this is, like. This is literally right before Lindsay Lohan blew up. Because Mean Girls came out the same year.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. And kind of. I mean, Freaky Friday had come out on, like, she.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker B: After Mean Girl. She, like, blew up. Blew up.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker A: Right. Did you and your friends ever kiss pictures of hot guys on the wall, like, while you were next to each other? Because that happens in this movie. I was like that. I don't think I've ever seen that in a movie. That's an interesting thing.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker B: I don't have any memory of doing that specifically. If any of my friends from middle school are listening, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm misremembering. But I can assure you that we did equally weird and cringy things, I'm sure.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker A: Like, I know he did all kinds. I'm.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker B: There are things I don't even want to think about because I'm still getting secondhand embarrassment.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker A: That's fair.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker B: That's fair. Another costuming note. Lola's audition outfit. I hate it as an outfit.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker A: Is that the one with all the, like, with the head scarf and the.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker B: No, that's her first day of school outfit. That was her audition outfit. She has on, like, a long lace skirt and a striped top with, like, a high neck and then another striped vest over it and, like, a choker with a cameo pin on it.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker B: Hate it as an outfit, but I truly appreciate the thought behind it because it's clear that she dressed up to audition for Eliza Doolittle.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker B: And it legit does look like something a teenager would put together for that purpose. Like, it doesn't quite go together. It doesn't really work as an outfit. But it looks like she went into her closet and pulled out a handful of items she had that she felt like, fit the bill.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker B: And that's really fun costuming and character work.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think most of her costumes kind of feel that way for the most part. They do kind of feel like a kid would put this together because they think it's cool. There was a really. During that audition, there's this great moment where Sam comes in and watches the audition, and we get, like, this 70s, 60s, I don't know, light streak across his face. Like he's sitting in the back row and he has, like. There's one, like, streak of light hitting him in that very specific 70s movie TV show way that I thought was amazing. And then I was like. There's also, like, several split diopter shots, which is the one where you get multiple people, like, where have, like, somebody in the background is in focus and then somebody very close to the camera is also in focus.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker A: Talked about this in Carrot in the Carry episode.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker B: I never catch those.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, they're so obvious to me. I'm a noted hater of that specific technique, but I was like, is this movie doing a De Palma pastiche? And I think it might be interesting because there's a lot of. Some of the editing that reminds me of. And just the directing style reminds me of some of the stuff in Carrie. And that's why I was like. When you're talking about the bike accident where she just randomly runs off the road and crashes seemingly for no reason, I was like, that happened. Happens. Carrie does that to that boy. In the beginning of Carrie, like, she, like, she's like. I'm not saying it's a direct reference, but I was, like, considering, like, I had that note about this feeling like it's pulling some references from Carrie. I was like, maybe. I don't know.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker A: But, yeah, I think we're doing, like. Like I said, it's one of my favorite things about this movie is that it's. For a movie like this, it has way more directorial vision and, yeah. Personality.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker B: Like a. If not a strong script, it has a strong creative direction.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I think the director crushed it. The script is. There's also a really great match cut. When they're shopping for sunglasses, and they're, like, trying on all those different sunglasses, and then she tries on the last pair, and then we match cut to her at the dining table, like, pretending to be, like, a sad, like, grieving.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker B: Wife with her, like, head scarf, her.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker A: Headscarf, and her sunglasses. She looks like. Like.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker B: She looks like Audrey Hepburn.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker B: Which is a reference that we get a couple times throughout the movie.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker A: Yeah. But I thought that that match cut of the glasses, it was. Was really good.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker B: There is an offhand comment that I don't think I've ever caught before in this movie when Lola is asking her mom if she can get a new dress, and her mom's like, I don't have any money. We had to get the car fixed. And also I had to buy a new kiln. And I was like, that would be so expensive. No wonder she doesn't have any money. Because even a cheap kiln, my understanding is that it's gonna run you at least, like, $2,000.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker A: Oh, God. Yeah.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker B: But this is something that her mom does professionally, which means she's buying a nice kiln and a big one. Yeah.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker A: So, yeah, no, I'm sure it was very, very expensive.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker B: Like, that set her back. I understand why we didn't have money for a new driver dress.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. There's one of the rehearsal scenes. They're, like, doing, like, some dancing or whatever. And the outfit Lindsay Lohan is wearing in particular, her skirt, I was like, that would not have flown. No, it is so short.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker B: It is the fingertip rule.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. Like, I was like, she must be wearing shorts or something under there, because, like, you there. That is just. Yeah, that's way too.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker B: She also has leg warmers in that scene, which I thought was interesting because leg warmers were, like, not in style at the time.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, but she's different. She's artsy.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker B: She's artsy. I get it. I unironically love the song that Lindsay Lohan sings at the end of this movie. I had it on my ipod once upon a time. I think I've had it on every iteration of ipod I ever had, and it does major numbers on my Spotify to this day.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, I love that at the end, when Stu shows up to give her the necklace back, she has to remove another different choker that she's wearing. Obviously, he could put the Coke bottle necklace on.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker B: You can't be unaccessorized. Come on.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker A: She's so many different chokers in this movie. It's, like, constant.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker B: Do you want to take a guess how many necklaces and chokers I have currently? I don't know what the actual number is. My guess would be it's many.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker A: 47.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker B: I'm going to count all my necklaces. Everybody else weigh in. Tell us how many necklaces you think I have, and we will reveal the number of necklaces in the next prequel episode.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker A: And to be fair, you're counting, like, you're not. Not just, like, jewelry, like, you're talking about, like, because you have, like, chokers that are like a piece of ribbon or, like, whatever.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker B: Do you think I should count those if I wear them?
• 1:37:23
  Speaker A: I would.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker B: If I wear them as a choker, do you want me to count chokers or necklaces?
• 1:37:27
  Speaker A: Well, I don't know. I was talking about chokers here, so I feel like you should count both.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker B: Okay, I'll count both. Let us know what you think the numbers are, and we will reveal the numbers.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker A: 47 is my guess.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker B: 47. Okay. Necklaces or chokers?
• 1:37:42
  Speaker A: Both combined. All of it. We're counting things that go on your neck as an accessory.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker B: All right. Okay, okay, okay. Last thing here. We talked about this in the prequel, and I want to briefly revisit my question to you about Hilary Duff, because we talked about how she was originally cast as Lola and had to drop out, and I think that she would have been miscast in this role. Yeah, I would agree, because basically every role I've ever seen her in has been, like, basically, Lizzie McGuire.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker B: And I don't know if I've ever seen her do something more over the top like this.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker A: I feel like I remember either episodes of Lizzie McGuire or something where she plays. I don't know. I feel like I've seen her at least once do, like, a slightly bigger, like, not dramatic, but I guess dramatic in the version of dramatic from this movie. Like, over the top kind of character. But I agree that I don't think it.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker B: Well, and I think the other problem is she would have brought Hilary Duff to this role. Not like her specifically, but like, the audience watching. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker A: No, I agree. Before we get to the final verdict, do we want to remind you you can hover to Facebook, Instagram threads, goodread, Blue sky, any of those places interact. We'd love to hear what you have to say about Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker B: Tell us how many necklaces you think I have.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker A: How many necklaces you think Katie necklaces and or chokers combined, you think Katie has? You can also do us a favor by heading over to Apple podcasts, Spotify. Wherever you listen to and like our show, write us a nice little review. Drop us a five star rating. That really helps out and you can Support us@patreon.com ThisFilmIsLit subscribe for 2, 5 or 15 bucks a month. Get access to stuff at different levels. You go read it. It's fine. Katie, it's time for the final verdict.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker B: Sentence fast. Verdict after. That's stupid. Honestly, I'm torn on this one. The book and the movie are actually pretty similar, and I think both have a lot of great moments and a lot of promise, but neither of them quite stick the landing for me. I enjoyed reading the book, I liked being privy to Lila's inner thoughts, and I enjoyed getting expanded versions on a lot of what happens in the movie. I thought the writing style was fun and it felt really true to my own experience of being a teenage girl, which I always appreciate. However, I didn't feel like the book had a strong thematic throughline and the ending felt a little flat to me. As for the movie, I obviously have a lot of nostalgic fondness for it. I think many of its artistic choices are unique and interesting, and I appreciate that. It's really different from a lot of other teen girl movies, especially the ones that were out at the time, unfortunately. I also think it has some of the same issues that the book does. It doesn't really have a strong thematic through line. And while the final scene at the cast party arguably wraps things up in a more interesting way than the book does, it also feel strange and tacked on and like the movie is belying its own supposed message by continuing the ultimate celebrity crush fantasy. I think in this case, and this is going to be very personal to me, I had more fun watching the movie than I did reading the book by at least a little bit. So this time I'm going to give this one to the movie.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker A: All right, Katie, what's next?
• 1:41:18
  Speaker B: We are currently in the thick of our March Madness bracket.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker A: We're on the Final Four. Or almost?
• 1:41:25
  Speaker B: Almost.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker A: Almost. We're on the final when this.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker B: When this episode. Yes, when this episode comes out for for everyone.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker A: First Final Four showdown will be happening.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker B: Yes, we will be on the Final Four and we are knocking out different adaptations of Of Dracula by Bram Stoker. Yep, many movies to choose from. Many more that didn't even make fewer now that we've been through two rounds of brackets. But if you have not been participating in that and you would like to, you can find those polls on all of our regular social media channels. So you can participate in the final four.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. If you're listening to this, when it comes out, you can vote on the final, like the semifinals and the final. Final showdown. So. Because we have. Yeah, I think the final ones right now are the 1958 Dracula.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker B: 1958 Dracula. Bram Stoker's Dracula, 1931 Dracula.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker A: And then we don't know between Nosferatu 2024 and Nosferatu 1922. Yes, the original.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker B: We will be finding that out in 12 hours.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And then. Yeah, then it'll come down to one of those. And then we'll do the Bone, or whichever one doesn't win ultimately will be our bonus episode for Patreon. So go engage with all that and come back in two weeks time for whatever Bram Stoker Dracula we're covering. And in one week's time, we're hearing what all of you had to say about Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen and previewing whichever movie ends up winning along with the book. Until that time, guys, gals, non binary.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker B: Pals and everybody else, keep reading books.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker A: Keep watching movies, and keep being.