Latest / The Naked Room / A freak accident, the female fairytale, and a phallic fallacy

Transcript

A freak accident, the female fairytale, and a phallic fallacy · The Naked Room

0:00
just a disclaimer here to squash any riffraff that might come
0:03
up we talk about
0:04
SPEAKER_01: mammograms in this episode and it must be stated that we are not medical
0:09
professionals we encourage and support whatever journey you
0:13
take for your health
0:15
whatever works for you is what you should do we also talk about
0:20
if you were born in
0:20
SPEAKER_02: the 80s and grew up on the little mermaid we talk about the
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people will call it a dick on the cover.
0:28
The story behind this is that a disgruntled artist who was
0:31
working for Disney at
0:32
SPEAKER_02: the time,
0:33
SPEAKER_02: if you guys remember,
0:34
SPEAKER_02: I was born in 83.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: I grew up on The Little Rermaid.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: This rumor started going around.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: But we looked at Snopes.com, and it is false.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: This is not what happened.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: It is not...
0:45
SPEAKER_02: a disgruntled artist who was getting laid off.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: So just wanted to put that out there,
0:50
SPEAKER_02: and I was actually really curious to know if that was the case or not.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: Turns out it's not a cock-a-doodle-doo.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: It's not a cock-a-doodle-doo.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Even though it really looks like it, I'd bet money.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: No dress code.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: No rules.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Just B-Y-O-U.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: It's time to tell society that it's a taboo.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: You can be the you-est you here in the naked room.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Scoot those peppers on, cheer up as far as I can.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: There we go.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Am I lighting up green?
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: We've been talking a lot about hormones and stuff and stress.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: We had a very stressful morning.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: We're dealing with some hormones today.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: It's ridiculous.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: Like just leading up to trying to do this podcast,
1:36
SPEAKER_01: like you got stuck behind like the worst traffic and couldn't get here.
1:41
I was stuck in a conversation with my very sweet neighbor who I
1:44
hadn't met yet,
1:45
SPEAKER_01: so I couldn't really like peel away from it.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about,
1:49
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:49
SPEAKER_01: it was a heavy conversation because a house in our neighborhood exploded.
1:53
So it's like,
1:55
no matter where you go,
1:56
there's all these environmental things.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, and that was a freak accident, too.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: It was like lightning hit the hot water tank.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as far as we know, I guess.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's what she's been hearing.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, all the speculation around it.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: But it exploded upon somebody entering the house to check on the home.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: And we live...
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Because they flipped a light switch or something.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: So that's the craziest thing.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, check your propane.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: And when you go on vacation, like crack a window or something.
2:26
It sounds like this house was really buttoned up,
2:29
you know,
2:29
because they were on vacation.
2:30
And then they got some sort of alert that there was a level
2:33
that was higher or
2:34
SPEAKER_01: lower or whatever on their,
2:36
SPEAKER_01: you know,
2:37
SPEAKER_01: kind of smart house app.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: And they asked a neighbor to go check and see what was going on.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: And that neighbor, unfortunately, did not survive.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: I guess they were saying the blast radius is over two miles.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: There's like over 200 houses that have been damaged.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Luckily, knock on wood, we haven't noticed any damage here.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, you thought that it was the end.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: You were like, oh, my God.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: You just got bombed in D.C.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: or something.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, living in L.A.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: like for so long, you kind of assume.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: A house literally exploded.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Like disintegrated.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Popped like a balloon.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: There was a house.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: No, like the drone photos.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: There was a house and then there wasn't a house.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: It was just the insides of it.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: It was just the insulation that was left over.
3:22
Even the devastation that we saw in California with the fires
3:26
and like having close
3:27
SPEAKER_01: friends and stuff have to,
3:28
SPEAKER_01: you know,
3:28
SPEAKER_01: like go through.
3:29
It's like there's still – it is absolutely devastating and it
3:33
is obviously a total loss.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: But you can sometimes almost see, well, the living room was there.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's like a part of a structure.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Fireplace.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: This was –
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Like when they said they found somebody in the basement,
3:46
SPEAKER_01: my neighbor and I were just talking and she said,
3:48
SPEAKER_01: how did they know it was the basement?
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it was the debris.
3:52
Like I didn't see a piece of debris that was any bigger than
3:55
like a golf ball.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Like that's how small everything was that –
4:00
just got completely like blown to smithereens like yeah well
4:06
you've been having
4:07
anxiety dreams since yeah that was I guess my point is like
4:10
it's so crazy because
4:11
we've got all these environmental things that are working
4:13
against us obviously with
4:15
you know just like the way that we as humans are completely
4:20
just fucking the planet
4:22
SPEAKER_01: like but and then there's the yeah then there's all of the
4:27
um like I I believe that there are a lot of illnesses and
4:31
things that that are
4:32
caused by just emotions and internal stress and things of that
4:36
nature so I yeah I
4:39
don't really know what my like overall point is except that I
4:43
just think that it's
4:44
one it's one or the other or something like I feel like I I do
4:48
my best to like the
4:50
SPEAKER_01: way that I like to live in my lifestyle it's not it's not you know
4:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm not like the healthiest person in the world,
4:55
but I do my best to kind of like check most of the boxes and
4:58
make sure that I'm.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: You're very cognizant.
5:04
It freaks me out a lot how many younger people we're hearing
5:07
about that are getting cancer.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: You sent me an article.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: She's a chief communications officer.
5:15
So,
5:15
of course,
5:16
she wrote this beautiful piece of art of,
5:20
like,
5:20
remember me?
5:21
SPEAKER_02: How I lived, not how I died.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: I was just bawling.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: I just came in and I'm, like, snot going down my nose.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: Just ugly crying.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: It's just a great reminder to...
5:33
uh not take any of it for granted but then also when i hear
5:37
about more of these
5:37
stories i contemplate what the heck is going on in our
5:42
environment yeah why that's
5:44
happening more often why is there more colon cancer yeah why
5:47
are people at 30
5:49
something like we're not supposed to get checked we're advised
5:52
to get checked i
5:52
SPEAKER_02: think at 45.
5:53
yeah but there are people who are 37 who are getting or younger
5:57
than that yeah one
5:58
SPEAKER_02: friend who
6:00
She had – her indication was that she was having some blood in
6:04
her stool.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: So she went and got checked, and it turned out she had stage one.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: So she was able to get – Colon cancer?
6:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: She was able to get a really easy – well, not easy.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: She had a lot of recovery, but – Yeah, relatively.
6:16
She was able to knock it out with a surgery instead of having
6:19
to go through chemo
6:20
and all of the terrible things that people have to go through
6:23
with cancer.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: But –
6:25
SPEAKER_02: She's in her mid-30s.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: That's wild.
6:29
But it was interesting because she – I remember for a long time
6:31
she wasn't able to
6:32
SPEAKER_02: like put on weight.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: She would eat all this candy like to try to – something was going on.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: Intestinally.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: And so maybe that was an indication too.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: But why?
6:42
SPEAKER_02: Where is that coming from?
6:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean she does live in Los Angeles.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so hard to tell.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: Is it environmental?
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Is it internal?
6:49
SPEAKER_01: I think that with talking about – It's not always genetics.
6:54
I actually just had that conversation with my mom and sister
6:57
when they were here.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: And they were saying,
7:00
SPEAKER_01: like,
7:00
SPEAKER_01: you're turning 40,
7:01
you're getting to the age now where you should have to or you
7:03
need to go and start
7:04
SPEAKER_01: getting regular mammograms.
7:07
And we had this interesting conversation where I wasn't saying,
7:11
like,
7:11
I'm not going to do that.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: But currently, I don't have health insurance.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of said, yeah, like, I, you know.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I will do that,
7:19
but also there is a part of me that feels like checking for
7:23
those things and
7:25
worrying about them and then having the call where you may
7:28
potentially have
7:28
SPEAKER_01: something like that.
7:29
That would elevate my stress so much that that alone would give
7:32
me cancer.
7:33
So it's this interesting thing that I think is probably not –
7:38
it's pretty –
7:40
SPEAKER_01: obviously my family who loves me is not super stoked on my outlook on it,
7:43
SPEAKER_01: but there's a part of me that's like –
7:45
SPEAKER_01: I just want to go through life and just ride it out.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: When the wheels fall off, they do.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: I will say about mammograms,
7:52
SPEAKER_02: though,
7:53
SPEAKER_02: because you've had this conversation with your mom,
7:55
SPEAKER_02: who is a nurse,
7:56
SPEAKER_02: and I've had this conversation with my mom,
7:58
SPEAKER_02: who has been – she was a med tech,
8:01
and she did a lot of her own research and just learned a lot
8:04
from her time in UVA
8:07
SPEAKER_02: health systems.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: She has told me that a lot of –
8:12
cancers that probably would have just stayed dormant and not
8:16
become a problem get
8:18
SPEAKER_02: found during mammograms.
8:20
And so I wonder what the stats are with the amount of women
8:25
who've gone through
8:26
chemo and been told you have cancer and it would not have
8:29
become an issue.
8:31
because they went to get a mammogram yeah in most cases it
8:35
would be great to find
8:36
something and get ahead of it but i guess it's like i know
8:39
myself so well i feel
8:41
like by this point or it's like i'm i'm aware enough of my body
8:44
that i don't feel
8:46
like i'm somebody who's just like going through life at this
8:49
fast pace like i used
8:51
SPEAKER_01: to like when i lived in la to where i would not be aware of
8:55
And I think that I also know how sensitive I can be about
8:59
things like that,
9:01
SPEAKER_01: like things that I don't have a big enough understanding of.
9:05
I'm not a doctor and I don't – I just feel like information
9:08
coming at me about
9:09
something and like this big deal being made of it would cause
9:13
me more internal and
9:15
SPEAKER_01: even like external stress than just like –
9:18
trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle as much as I can,
9:21
like living to the fullest.
9:23
And I think that's why like that kind of wrapped around to you
9:26
saying that,
9:26
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:27
SPEAKER_01: that blast happened and we thought like the end is near.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was so interesting because I think for the first time,
9:33
SPEAKER_01: I've not had like near death experiences,
9:35
SPEAKER_01: really,
9:36
I guess maybe a couple like kind of close calls or just like
9:38
been in situations
9:40
SPEAKER_01: where it made me think like,
9:41
SPEAKER_01: oh,
9:41
SPEAKER_01: if that would have happened,
9:42
SPEAKER_01: like whether it was like a car accident or whatever.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think that up until recently,
9:48
my thought process around that would have always been that
9:51
thing that people talk
9:52
SPEAKER_01: about where your life flashes in front of you and you're like,
9:54
SPEAKER_00: oh,
9:54
SPEAKER_01: should have done this,
9:55
SPEAKER_01: should have done that.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: And that blast happened.
9:57
And when Oliver turned to me and was like,
9:59
I think that could have been a bomb.
10:02
It was really interesting to have like an experience where I
10:06
can reflect back and
10:07
SPEAKER_01: be like,
10:08
SPEAKER_01: oh,
10:08
SPEAKER_01: interesting.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel scared, really.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel... You snapped into action.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Let me call our friend that lives a mile from here.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
10:16
like we have a friend who has three small children and I
10:19
assumed that she was
10:20
SPEAKER_01: probably home alone because her husband was at work and...
10:24
SPEAKER_01: I am.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just looks like I got to call her one to see if she felt it.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: She's like our closest neighbor that we have contact with.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: And two to see if she okay.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: And is there anything like,
10:35
SPEAKER_01: but then yeah,
10:35
we kind of hung around the house figuring out like putting the
10:38
pieces together of
10:39
SPEAKER_01: what happened.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
10:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't think all of her eyes,
10:42
SPEAKER_01: I think we both just kind of felt like pretty content in an odd way.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I was,
10:47
SPEAKER_01: and that's kind of like wacky to think about too,
10:50
because I think part of that has to do with the fact that
10:52
shit's been so fucked in
10:54
SPEAKER_01: the last like few years of just like with,
10:58
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:59
politics which i don't like to talk about but just like how
11:02
much has changed that
11:04
the fact that that happened and it wasn't really that shocking
11:07
like i mean it was
11:07
shocking but the thought that we could have been bombed felt
11:11
like oh yep there yep
11:13
i expected this eventually like it was really wild you
11:17
experienced that thing that
11:18
SPEAKER_02: people talk about with that the calmness the clarity that they get yeah
11:23
it during so i've i noticed this about myself too whenever
11:27
there's like like i get
11:28
really bothered by little things sometimes but if it's a big
11:31
but if it's a big
11:32
thing like i remember one one time when we lived in west
11:35
hollywood someone broke
11:38
into they like like broke the window of my car in our garage
11:42
there was no there was
11:43
no gate and i remember i just called curtis from down in the
11:45
garage and i was like
11:46
SPEAKER_02: i think i remember this yeah i was like
11:49
um so someone broke into my car and i just said it's so
11:54
whatever yeah and obviously
11:56
not in the same level not on the same level as a bomb going off
11:59
yeah um it's
12:01
SPEAKER_02: interesting to me though the psychology behind why
12:06
we remain calm in those circumstances i'd love to dive into
12:11
that part of me like
12:13
party wonders if it's the fact like okay so with those two
12:17
instances like you
12:18
having your car broken into i would i would you know beg to say
12:23
is something that
12:24
SPEAKER_01: you kind of unfortunately expect might happen in la yeah and the blast
12:31
SPEAKER_01: You know,
12:31
SPEAKER_01: wildly enough was something that like wasn't it was physically shocking,
12:36
but but as far as just like the happening of it wasn't actually
12:40
that shocking.
12:41
And I almost wonder if psychologically these are things that we
12:45
kind of go through
12:46
SPEAKER_01: the day in the back of our mind thinking might happen.
12:50
Like,
12:50
you know,
12:50
our car,
12:51
like living in LA,
12:52
like,
12:52
you know,
12:53
we both know how to see.
12:53
You're like putting your stuff in your glove box and everything
12:55
and making sure
12:56
SPEAKER_01: you're making it like not enticing to be broken into.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: But when somebody says like,
13:01
SPEAKER_01: oh,
13:01
SPEAKER_01: my car got broke,
13:02
SPEAKER_01: like my friend Kyle,
13:03
SPEAKER_01: his like,
13:04
SPEAKER_01: now I can talk about it because he's proposed to him,
13:07
SPEAKER_01: but...
13:07
SPEAKER_01: He had an engaged – Oh, they got engaged?
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're engaged.
13:10
They've been engaged now for – gosh,
13:12
it's my – I feel like it's been a year.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: And then very recently, Sean proposed to Kyle.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: So they both proposed to each other, which is so sweet.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: So congratulations to our friends, Sean and Kyle.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:22
I think about same-sex couples sometimes because it's
13:25
traditionally – the man's
13:26
SPEAKER_02: getting down on the knee and proposing.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: And that's just what we've been wired as heterosexual people to –
13:33
expect it's gonna happen right yeah for the man which is i feel
13:36
like we can dive
13:37
into that too but yeah but when it's two women and two men it's
13:41
interesting yeah
13:42
you're like who like how does that work and i love that they
13:45
both proposed i did
13:46
too and i didn't know that that was should i go back and
13:49
propose to my husband you
13:50
should i think it'd be really eight years yeah like on your
13:53
wedding anniversary
13:53
SPEAKER_01: don't listen to this it's supposed to be a surprise yeah
13:57
hot sound guy shut up um but yeah i think i almost feel like
14:02
psychologically i
14:02
wonder if it has something to do with the fact that there's
14:05
almost like a relief
14:07
that like it did happen like it's like this lead up and i know
14:11
that sounds kind of
14:12
weird and fucked up to say because it's like obviously you
14:14
don't want your car
14:15
SPEAKER_01: broken into you don't want a house exploding down the street from you and
14:19
SPEAKER_01: devastating an entire neighborhood but oddly enough
14:23
SPEAKER_01: It is something where you're like, okay, it happened.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: And now I'm not going to be like on.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do feel a little on edge.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: And obviously,
14:30
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:30
SPEAKER_01: if we went back to LA and parked our car downtown with the,
14:35
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:35
SPEAKER_01: a laptop in the seat,
14:37
SPEAKER_01: we'd probably be on edge about it getting broken into.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
14:39
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like ripping a Band-Aid off or something.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: Like, well, this is really bad.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: This bad thing happened.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: This bad thing happened, and I'm still more resilient.
14:50
I don't know if you ever recover from your house burning down
14:53
or your house
14:53
SPEAKER_02: exploding,
14:54
SPEAKER_02: but as someone who is observing those things happening,
15:03
SPEAKER_02: it does put a lot in perspective as well.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's like the bigger topic, right?
15:08
SPEAKER_02: It's just the overall life perspective that we've been contemplating,
15:14
SPEAKER_02: especially with you turning 40 and –
15:18
like moving locations and being in a new spa and you've been in
15:22
your relationship
15:22
for a few years and i'm like damn i'm coming up on my eighth
15:25
wedding anniversary
15:26
and i think about i know the time that i've been with curtis
15:29
it's been a decade
15:30
over a decade of my life yeah i'm like that's almost a quarter
15:34
i've basically been
15:35
with him for a quarter of my life your whole life yeah do you
15:39
so i feel like this
15:40
SPEAKER_02: is a great lead-in to talking about
15:45
Like the reflection of life talking about the way that we
15:49
experience things when we
15:50
SPEAKER_02: were younger.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: And thinking forward to what our life might look like.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
15:56
And like the way that society kind of sets us up for this idea
16:02
of what a quote
16:03
SPEAKER_02: unquote perfect life would look like.
16:05
especially being born in the 80s to millennia no we are
16:09
millennials to baby boomer
16:11
parents who are instilling certain values and ideas into us and
16:15
then also like the
16:16
pop culture at the time oh yeah oh yeah there's so much like
16:20
it's so funny to
16:20
SPEAKER_01: reflect on that and like
16:23
SPEAKER_01: I feel like you, it's funny.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's so many rabbit trails, bunny holes.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: No, not bunny holes.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Rabbit holes, bunny trails.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go down a rabbit, a bunny hole.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: That sounds really weird.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, bunnies.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like it could be sexual, too.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
16:42
SPEAKER_01: My bunny hole.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: My bunny hole.
16:46
But I feel like there's so many different,
16:48
like,
16:49
paths we could take with that.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: But when you were talking about,
16:51
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
16:52
SPEAKER_01: like,
16:52
the way – I just feel like it's interesting because you've
16:55
talked to me a little
16:55
SPEAKER_01: bit about this before.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: So,
16:56
SPEAKER_01: like,
16:57
SPEAKER_01: what – if you reflected right now on,
16:59
SPEAKER_01: like,
17:00
SPEAKER_01: 20-year-old Kelly and what she thought her life would look like at 42,
17:04
SPEAKER_01: right?
17:04
SPEAKER_01: You're 42 now.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm 42.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:10
I know you and I know that you're like really happy with the
17:13
way that your life is.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: But I think it's interesting.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Like if you told if you told 20 year old Kelly that you are married,
17:21
SPEAKER_01: checkbox,
17:22
SPEAKER_01: like you met the love of your life and you had a beautiful wedding.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that'd be a checkbox for you.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: But like if you told 20 year old Kelly that you decide,
17:31
SPEAKER_01: you know,
17:32
SPEAKER_01: after like a failed pregnancy,
17:34
SPEAKER_01: you decided not to get not to be a mom.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: 20 year old Kelly would probably have anxiety about that.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: If you told her that.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: You rent the home that you actually reside in full time.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: You do own property as well as like Airbnb.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: I wonder what 20-year-old Kelly would feel about that.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Like if she would be like, why are you still renting?
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Or if she would understand, you know what I mean?
17:56
SPEAKER_01: It's funny because it's like you have some explaining to do, Kelly.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: You have some explaining to do, Kelly.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
18:01
like what do you think like your life versus now and how it's
18:04
changed and the
18:06
SPEAKER_01: pressure you put on yourself because I know you and I know that you –
18:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
18:10
SPEAKER_01: had this like kind of very cookie cut,
18:14
SPEAKER_01: not cookie cutter,
18:15
SPEAKER_01: but very specific path that you had decided was equal to success.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting now to see you and be like,
18:24
SPEAKER_01: I feel like you're very successful in all the decisions that you've made.
18:28
And I feel like so many of those decisions,
18:30
20-year-old Kelly would have been like,
18:32
what the fuck you're gonna leave your job your really great job
18:36
at this place and
18:37
just like just be like nope you know and so yeah i'm curious
18:41
what your input is on
18:43
SPEAKER_01: that it's like
18:45
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I want to go back even farther.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Like as a kid, like 12-year-old Kelly.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
18:52
because 20-year-old Kelly probably only had those thoughts
18:55
based on what was
18:56
SPEAKER_01: ingrained in you from 12-year-old Kelly.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: So mid-90s Kelly.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: Mid-90s Kelly.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: What were you wearing?
19:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I'm like, wait, 80 – yeah, I was born in 83, so 95.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Did you have some jam sports or like carpenter jeans?
19:12
SPEAKER_02: I wore –
19:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, I went through a grunge phase in sixth grade.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: And then, oh, wait, no.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: And then Clueless came out in 95.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: And I definitely went through, like, the plaid skirt.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and freaking Empire Records.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
19:28
I just listened to,
19:29
was it Good Hang by Amy Poehler podcast and her Paul Rudd
19:32
interview?
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
19:34
And him talking about his era of,
19:35
like,
19:36
because he was Josh,
19:37
the brother in Clueless.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: It was such a good reflection of that era.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:44
let's go back to the we're talking about the fashion but then
19:48
the the programming
19:51
that i received from the movies and the songs and everything
19:54
that was out there at
19:55
the time was that i would be the happiest once i found the
20:02
perfect person and got
20:04
SPEAKER_02: married because hollywood paints this picture of
20:07
the honeymoon period which is the shortest phase of every
20:10
single relationship yeah
20:12
up to two years usually i would say for me it's typically not
20:16
lasted quite that
20:17
long but up to two years historically something happens and
20:20
you're like and now
20:22
SPEAKER_02: we're
20:22
in the we are yeah was it it's the reevaluation phase or the
20:27
like the um the power
20:29
struggle yeah we're just having to deal with like i feel like
20:32
all of our i was like
20:33
we had to deal with like real life shit off the bat and we were
20:35
like oh god yeah
20:36
yeah you did to get into it like thick and that which almost i
20:40
feel like was better
20:41
SPEAKER_01: because we we had to see each other in like
20:45
some pretty um like compromising that sounds that's not what I
20:50
meant we just see
20:51
each other in some compromising positions we had to yeah see
20:55
see how each other
20:56
handles like grief and stress and things like that like right
21:00
off the bat and that
21:01
I feel like set a pretty good foundation so we're just waiting
21:05
we get we feel like
21:06
we were owed a honeymoon period at some point we're gonna take
21:09
it so yeah we'll go
21:10
SPEAKER_01: away for a few months and we'll let you know
21:12
SPEAKER_02: You go on your trip, your honeymoon trip.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: So I was always a romantic.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't really until I started dating my husband,
21:24
SPEAKER_02: Curtis,
21:27
SPEAKER_02: that I think I kind of,
21:27
it was after I broke up with the last person before Curtis that
21:31
I feel like I
21:32
SPEAKER_02: snapped out of this idea that I had in my head of
21:38
SPEAKER_02: the perfectionism, this idea of a picture-perfect life.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: I got a lot more realistic.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: And fortunately, the guy who I dated before, Curtis...
21:50
uh set me up with one very pivotal session with phil studs oh i
21:55
remember the very
21:56
the very famous he's a he's a celebrity psychologist yeah and
22:02
so the guy i was
22:03
dating before was like his computer guy he would go and like
22:06
fix computers for
22:07
SPEAKER_02: people at their houses do house visits and phil studs was like
22:14
SPEAKER_02: Okay, within five minutes of meeting me.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: He is exactly the way he is in the documentary.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and then there's also... The book, yeah.
22:22
Well,
22:22
there's the books,
22:22
but then there's also the show Shrinking,
22:25
and it's on Apple TV.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: I've seen it, but was he part of the...
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Wait.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: So Harrison Ford's character is based on Phil Stutz.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I didn't even know that.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: And I've seen many episodes of that.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: But now that makes total sense.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: That's so funny.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: So he's very much like that.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: He's very New York, very give it to you directly.
22:47
But he also is spiritual and he has a softness to him,
22:51
which is really lovely.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: But he told me in a very direct way.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: First off, I'm 30.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to this meeting with him or this session with him when I'm 30.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: And it was in person, right?
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: It was in session.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: I went to his penthouse apartment in Century City.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: And I got to sit there on the sofa.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: We had a five-minute conversation.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: He's like,
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Kelly, you're a really wonderful person.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: You're really nice, but you apologize way too much.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: And that needs to be eradicated immediately.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: So there was that.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: And then he told me, yeah.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: And then he told me, you have this idea of a picture perfect life.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: And you think that once you reach it, all of the work is done.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: You're not going to have to go through any suffering anymore.
23:37
And he's like,
23:38
I'm here to tell you that once you start to think of life as
23:42
being linear and
23:43
SPEAKER_02: And realize that there are going to be turds along the way.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes, like turds.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, turds along the way.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: He actually said that.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: And I think he might have like drawn me a diagram.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's famous for drawing a lot of things, which is so cool.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, did I keep that?
23:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't think I did if I did because I looked for it.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, he might not have actually drawn something for me.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: That might have been another therapist that he suggested to me.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: who I went to see for a session also.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: But nobody matches up to Phil Stutz.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
24:12
SPEAKER_02: he's like,
24:13
you will be so much happier once you have the realization that
24:17
life is never going
24:19
SPEAKER_02: to be this idea of picture perfect.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: There's always going to be suffering.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: You're always going to have to go over speed bumps.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: And it took me a little while to really
24:30
grasp onto that but i did within a couple years after that
24:34
session i i think i
24:36
started to lean into this idea that there is no such thing as a
24:40
picture perfect
24:41
SPEAKER_02: life and i have felt a lot more grounded and a lot more um
24:50
SPEAKER_02: I've let go a lot, I guess.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: And that was super pivotal for me.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: And it was all the undoing from the programming that we got.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's hard.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: When we were younger.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Because it's not – it doesn't – you know,
25:04
SPEAKER_01: it's one thing to feel like,
25:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:06
you have a bad habit like smoking or something that you're
25:08
trying to unprogram
25:10
SPEAKER_01: yourself from.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Something that everyone thinks like, yeah, that's not good.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: So you have kind of the support of society to –
25:18
SPEAKER_01: To peel that away or to try to work on on getting rid of that.
25:22
But it's wild to be a woman in a society where it still is very
25:27
much ingrained in
25:29
SPEAKER_01: young females that you want to look pretty and you want to,
25:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:33
SPEAKER_01: you want to,
25:35
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:36
SPEAKER_01: go through the this like kind of set of.
25:39
of guidelines that will get you to be you know either a wife
25:43
and a mother or a
25:44
career woman and a wife and a mother like yeah or you have to
25:47
pick or you have to
25:48
pick between the two or there's a lot of that yeah and you want
25:52
to have you know a
25:53
SPEAKER_01: home and you want to you know just all just so much that
26:00
SPEAKER_01: it's,
26:00
SPEAKER_01: it's not as supported if you decide to,
26:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
26:03
SPEAKER_01: I know I've,
26:04
SPEAKER_01: I have had to explain myself here and there to people in my life,
26:08
to the choices that I've made because I've not ever settled in
26:11
one spot and been
26:12
SPEAKER_01: like,
26:13
SPEAKER_01: you know,
26:13
SPEAKER_01: here it is,
26:14
SPEAKER_01: even with relationships,
26:15
SPEAKER_01: like,
26:16
SPEAKER_01: you know,
26:17
SPEAKER_01: making the decisions to get out of certain relationships.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: When I, when I, man, yeah, it's even wild to think about that.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: When I got divorced and
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, you got married at 19.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: 19.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:28
Which like I think we mentioned in another episode where it's
26:31
like that wasn't even
26:32
SPEAKER_01: considered,
26:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
26:33
SPEAKER_01: that wasn't really where I grew up considered young.
26:36
Like the only thing that was odd is that or that was odd to
26:40
other people is that
26:41
SPEAKER_01: they assumed that we were getting married because we got pregnant.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: Like they were, you know, very much like, oh, OK.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So like and that wasn't the case.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: We were just young and idiots now.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: which is like, we were just young.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: You got married because you were in love.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And we were in nerve.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: In nerve.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: He was in the military,
26:58
so that was even more pretty common for you to get married
27:02
young because they offer
27:03
you more benefits if you are married and somebody is waiting
27:07
for you and it's more
27:08
SPEAKER_01: money and,
27:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:10
SPEAKER_01: all of those things.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: So they really, really in with that.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: But the interesting thing,
27:15
SPEAKER_01: too,
27:15
SPEAKER_01: is that when I decided to get divorced,
27:19
SPEAKER_01: where a lot of women in my life –
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Like,
27:23
SPEAKER_01: grew up in the same kind of way that I did,
27:24
SPEAKER_01: who were,
27:25
SPEAKER_01: like,
27:25
SPEAKER_01: a little older than me,
27:26
SPEAKER_01: who were probably still in marriages dealing with these things,
27:29
SPEAKER_01: who tried to give me the advice of,
27:31
SPEAKER_01: like,
27:32
SPEAKER_01: well,
27:33
SPEAKER_01: that's pretty normal.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, you just deal – you deal with those things.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, you deal with, you know, men being like that.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: And I –
27:41
don't even know how I besides sheer will and just like the who
27:47
I am like I always
27:48
feel like I must have some guide from like a ancestor who was
27:52
like a badass bitch
27:53
because like in my mind I've always had that like nope not me
27:58
you know like I'm not
27:58
gonna do that that's not for me like and so but to be in a
28:02
situation where you're
28:03
SPEAKER_01: already feeling really vulnerable you're I mean at at 20
28:08
let's see 1920 yeah at 22 years old when I was getting divorced
28:12
I had decided and I
28:14
thought in my mind that I was deciding to be alone forever over
28:19
being in a
28:20
relationship with this person and I had been like that's okay
28:23
like that's that's
28:24
fine I'll never I'm an old maid now because I was divorced you
28:28
know yeah like I was
28:29
like oh obviously no one will ever want to date me because I'm
28:31
like was married and
28:32
SPEAKER_01: divorced and I'm you know whatever and
28:34
used good used good and so but i was like whatever i'll just
28:38
like do my own thing
28:39
and and be and that wasn't the case i've had many you know um
28:44
relationships since
28:45
then but but it's just like as a society we have all these
28:51
things we ingest we have
28:53
elders or you know are the people that are older than us that
28:56
we're looking up to
28:57
SPEAKER_01: that we're seeking advice from and i hope that
29:02
our kind of untraditional approach to life and our experiences
29:08
we can be like maybe
29:10
the people that that i know i needed a little bit in my life
29:13
that i didn't have
29:14
where it was like somebody who had been through it who was like
29:17
yeah it's okay you
29:18
SPEAKER_01: don't need to follow that that
29:20
SPEAKER_01: guideline.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't have to be for you.
29:23
You don't have to put makeup on every day and just only try to
29:28
find a man and then have kids.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: That's okay if you don't want that.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I luckily just kind of had it in my head that I didn't have to do it, but
29:38
SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably pretty rare.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: And so,
29:41
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
29:42
SPEAKER_01: I hope our conversations,
29:44
SPEAKER_01: you know,
29:44
going down our bunny holes here can really help other young
29:48
women feel like they
29:50
SPEAKER_01: have a sounding board for if they're feeling that way.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I'm here to tell you.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: And women are aged to feel like they're understood.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, supported in there.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, because we were talking about it.
30:02
yesterday with the amount of things like we kind of want to
30:08
unpack whether or not
30:10
we really feel a certain way or if we feel like because that's
30:14
inside us or if it's
30:16
because we're told that by society like changing our last name
30:22
oh yeah that was one
30:23
thing because you changed your last name i never did and i'm
30:26
not going to because
30:27
SPEAKER_02: my
30:28
husband doesn't seem to be bothered by it I had my name for 34
30:31
years yeah and I
30:33
heard it's a pain in the ass it was mostly because I was lazy
30:35
I'm like I just don't
30:36
feel like whatever but Curtis doesn't care so yeah it's fine
30:40
and so I'm still Kelly
30:41
Garthwaite and and society makes it so much harder yes I feel
30:47
like call me Mrs.
30:48
Kieber and I'm like yeah that's fine yeah you're like whatever
30:50
yeah but I'm also
30:51
SPEAKER_02: like yeah no I haven't I haven't changed my name
30:54
i remember changing mine when i got married changing it to my
30:59
married name and it
31:00
being so easy like and yeah you know everyone was just like oh
31:05
of course yeah like
31:06
of course this is what you're doing like no problem like boom
31:09
boom i mean it's
31:10
still patriarchy yeah they push you and to be owned by your
31:14
husband which also in
31:16
the same not just the name change but marriage in general like
31:19
it was like all you
31:19
SPEAKER_01: have to do is just get this paper signed essentially i'm pretty sure
31:23
SPEAKER_01: Maybe not every state does this.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: And it's so funny because now I'm remembering as we're talking about it.
31:27
But I distinctly remember going to the courthouse in West
31:30
Virginia and filling out
31:31
SPEAKER_01: the paperwork to like,
31:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:34
SPEAKER_01: apply for the marriage certificate.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: And they just verbally asked us, are you all related at all?
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And we were like, no.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, okay, check.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: I think that's... And it's so funny.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it might be kind of specific to where I grew up.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: But it was an easy process for the most part.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: It was just this, you know... Also, how old school English of you.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, monarchy vibes.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: I know.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: Is this your brother?
31:59
SPEAKER_01: Is this your brother?
31:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
32:01
And so,
32:01
yeah,
32:02
I was like,
32:02
is there a different piece of paperwork we have to fill out?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Or is it... Like, I feel like they'd still be like, it's okay.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: But no, that's terrible.
32:09
But...
32:10
SPEAKER_01: That it was really easy.
32:12
And then when I went to change my name and it could have also
32:14
had to do with being
32:15
SPEAKER_01: like I was in a different state at that point.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: But there were just so many hoops to jump through.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And when you went to change it back, change it back to my maiden name.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a lot of hoops to jump through.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: It was very, very.
32:28
I remember one of the hardest things was separating because we
32:33
shared a loan,
32:35
SPEAKER_01: a car loan,
32:35
SPEAKER_01: a vehicle loan through our bank.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: Mm hmm.
32:39
And I was trying to take on ownership of that loan because the
32:45
payments weren't
32:46
SPEAKER_01: being made by anyone else but me.
32:48
So I was like,
32:49
it's time to now get this other name off of here so that it's
32:53
just my name.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: And this is in, you know, whatever, uh, what was the year?
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Um,
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Married in 2005.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: It was like 2007 probably.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: 1986.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: No, you were born.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: It was like 2007 or something like that.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: But I remember I think it took three chances.
33:19
or three different times i had to call the bank and explain to
33:22
them what was
33:23
happening and they would take my name off of it and leave his
33:27
on because they
33:27
didn't comprehend that the woman was the one who wanted to take
33:31
over the payments
33:32
and like carry this on and it was so why i had to physically go
33:36
into the bank and
33:37
like show them all this paperwork and say no like the i i am
33:42
absorbing this and um
33:44
this is like 1970s early 1970s vibes and even like going
33:48
through the divorce and
33:49
like i i had to have i kept having to fight for the fact that i
33:55
was peeling away in
33:56
an independent way like they kept asking me if i wanted to um
34:00
or what i wanted to
34:02
ask for alimony and things like that and i was like i don't
34:04
like that's not yeah a
34:06
thing that's going to happen and i and i'm not seeking that and
34:09
they are just like
34:10
SPEAKER_01: well what will you do like
34:13
SPEAKER_00: How will you survive?
34:14
SPEAKER_01: And why are you doing this to yourself?
34:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's no wonder.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Because these people weren't questioning the status quo.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And it is set up to where, yeah, it's like, you know.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: We just sit and look pretty.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: Sit and look pretty.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Be your husband's property.
34:29
Yeah,
34:30
it felt very much like I was just trying to like,
34:33
yeah,
34:33
be like,
34:33
I'm a human still.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: Like,
34:36
SPEAKER_01: for the last few years,
34:37
SPEAKER_01: I belong,
34:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
34:38
SPEAKER_01: belonged to this other human,
34:40
SPEAKER_01: but I would like my,
34:43
SPEAKER_01: my ownership of myself back.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: It's wild.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: And not to say that, you know, I mean, marriage is lovely.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: You you're in one.
34:50
you know like it's not all you know it's not all doom and gloom
34:55
and patriarchy and
34:56
things like that but I think it's really important to be aware
34:59
of your of your
35:00
choices and your options of your independence and your
35:02
independence yeah well yeah
35:05
SPEAKER_02: and maintaining your sense of
35:07
self and not getting completely absorbed in the this identity
35:12
of being someone's
35:13
wife yeah and it's like if that's the way that some women
35:18
approach it then that's
35:19
how they're going to approach it but i think it's just
35:21
important the thing that
35:23
we're trying to hit home is questioning why all these
35:26
particular things exist why
35:31
why has it always worked this way yeah and why are we not
35:35
asking more questions
35:36
about how we got to where we are yeah i think a lot of times
35:40
the questions don't
35:41
get asked and as as you become more of like an independent you
35:45
know woman we'll say
35:46
i mean obviously it's for all anyone who feels independent but
35:50
specifically talking
35:51
about women it's like as you become independent you become more
35:54
hyper aware of
35:56
SPEAKER_01: of where that is happening around you.
35:59
And I think I've had to remind myself over and over again that
36:03
just because it's a
36:03
SPEAKER_01: situation that I have decided might not work for me,
36:08
SPEAKER_01: it's hard sometimes because then you feel like you have this,
36:11
SPEAKER_01: like this deeper knowledge of like,
36:13
SPEAKER_01: you know,
36:15
watching somebody like give up a career and have children and
36:18
take their husband's
36:19
SPEAKER_01: last name and things like that.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: And, and, and part of it is like, yes, that was ingrained in them.
36:23
And,
36:24
and it,
36:25
but also it's like,
36:26
but how,
36:27
sometimes it's hard to argue with it.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Cause it's like,
36:29
SPEAKER_01: well,
36:29
SPEAKER_01: if they're happy,
36:30
like I wasn't happy in my marriage and not just because I
36:33
wanted independence,
36:34
SPEAKER_01: there were a lot of other circumstances that were,
36:36
SPEAKER_01: you know,
36:38
unhealthy but i think that it's it's tough because yeah like it
36:43
isn't questioned a
36:44
lot most of the time because they they do are like this is what
36:49
i wanted and i got
36:50
it and this is like this is okay i've not even settled but
36:53
they're like this was my
36:54
this is my idea of happiness right and i'm good but did that
36:58
come from ingrained
36:59
exactly right programming versus an actual one yeah and we
37:04
don't necessarily have
37:05
SPEAKER_02: this isn't this is this is more of a
37:09
SPEAKER_02: I guess we'll go with a rhetorical question.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: It's more just to get people to contemplate.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: Why are we programmed to think that?
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Or where did that even come from in the first place?
37:24
SPEAKER_02: It's it's kind of like that.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: It's like chicken or the egg and thing to a little bit like.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: And it is like,
37:32
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
37:32
I was on the stair stepper and I have a 90s workout playlist
37:35
and Britney Spears,
37:37
SPEAKER_02: her first single baby one more time.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: Hey, baby one more time.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: Hit me one more time.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: Now Apple Music has it so you can watch the lyrics.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
37:46
And I was reading the lyrics and like singing along in my head
37:50
as I'm on the stairs.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, damn, this is real toxic programming right here.
37:55
SPEAKER_02: No pun intended.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because she has a song called Toxic.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: Which I'm like, is that a reaction to her first song?
38:02
SPEAKER_02: But she's 16 years old.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: And she becomes this icon.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: And this song is written by a Max Martin, I think it was.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: I see it at the end of the credits.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: And some of the lyrics, I'm just like...
38:17
holy crap she's saying like you're the reason i breathe yeah
38:21
yeah my loneliness my
38:22
loneliness is killing me like she's she is sending this man
38:27
wrote these lyrics for
38:28
her as a 16 year old to sing and put out into the world for
38:32
other women girls so
38:34
wild and we're it's an anthem yeah and i remember bringing this
38:39
up to you and i was
38:40
SPEAKER_02: like
38:41
How can we,
38:41
like,
38:41
flip the script on this and turn this into a women's anthem?
38:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: Where we're, like, owning that we love ourselves so much.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: I think, like, thankfully, like, that has happened.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, like, that has been happening a lot.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think of, like, I mean, I don't...
38:59
SPEAKER_01: And maybe not,
39:00
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that there's one artist off the top of my head,
39:03
SPEAKER_01: at least,
39:03
SPEAKER_01: where I can be like,
39:04
SPEAKER_01: everything they sing is really empowered.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: But,
39:06
SPEAKER_01: like,
39:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:07
SPEAKER_01: if we're using,
39:07
SPEAKER_01: like,
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Beyonce,
39:08
SPEAKER_01: since everybody loves and talks about her,
39:10
SPEAKER_01: it's like,
39:11
SPEAKER_01: like,
39:11
SPEAKER_01: she definitely has some power anthems,
39:13
SPEAKER_01: I think,
39:13
SPEAKER_01: that are more about,
39:14
SPEAKER_01: like,
39:14
SPEAKER_01: female empowerment.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: And, like, people are…
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Destiny's Child.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Like people are attaching to that.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: And,
39:20
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:21
SPEAKER_01: or was there like Lizzo,
39:22
SPEAKER_01: even though I know there was some controversy around that.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
39:25
SPEAKER_01: those are two people that come to mind like right off the bat of like,
39:28
SPEAKER_01: OK,
39:29
SPEAKER_01: there are hits.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, Taylor Swift, you know, there's so many.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Alanis.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: We can't leave Alanis.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: We can't leave Alanis out.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: Like,
39:35
SPEAKER_01: thankfully,
39:36
SPEAKER_01: that has been,
39:37
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:38
acknowledged at least and reversed a bit because people are
39:42
getting women are
39:43
SPEAKER_01: getting more,
39:44
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:44
SPEAKER_01: aware of the fact that.
39:47
that there needs to be more of that like these songs that are
39:50
getting stuck in our
39:51
head that we're listening to you know that we think we're just
39:54
like singing this
39:54
little hippie baby you know yeah and then you're like wait i
39:58
sang that over and
39:59
over again and i listened to it in my room like i was like 14
40:03
you literally being
40:04
programmed to be like if i'm alone and i don't have a man i'll
40:08
die you know yeah
40:10
SPEAKER_01: So thankfully, that has been changing.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
40:13
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I think we said earlier,
40:14
it would be so wild to go back and do an entire episode where
40:18
we dig into the
40:19
things that we loved about movies and music back in that time
40:24
that were just so
40:25
SPEAKER_01: part of our core,
40:28
SPEAKER_01: like 90210.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: My mom didn't let me watch that show.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Really?
40:31
SPEAKER_01: Or no, that wasn't there.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Beverly Hills 90210.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Was there a band as well?
40:35
SPEAKER_01: No, there wasn't.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: It was a show.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like,
40:39
SPEAKER_01: too,
40:39
SPEAKER_01: there was,
40:39
SPEAKER_01: like...
40:41
SPEAKER_01: What was the other...
40:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
40:45
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
40:45
SPEAKER_01: Backstreet Boys and Sink and all of that.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, there were just...
40:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, NSYNC, Bye Bye Bye.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: How toxic.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: You can't leave.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: I'll die of loneliness.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: Bye Bye Bye is a freaking jam.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: It's an anthem.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
41:04
it I love the fact of like having that just awareness of it
41:10
because now we can look
41:11
SPEAKER_01: back and kind of like laugh.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: It is comical because we for lack of better.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: We made it out, you know, but but
41:20
It is worth noting to be aware of that stuff and be aware of –
41:26
I mean – and
41:27
SPEAKER_01: sometimes there's like an over-awareness.
41:29
Like when the whole – how many years ago was it when everybody
41:33
started like really
41:34
SPEAKER_01: digging into like the Disney cover – like the covers of their movies?
41:38
Oh,
41:38
you're talking about Little Mermaid with the dick that's thrown
41:40
in there?
41:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like all – Yeah.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: The Little Mermaid dick.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean – It is definitely an erect penis.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: It is an erect penis.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: Like –
41:49
SPEAKER_02: I think there's multiples on there.
41:51
SPEAKER_02: It was like a disgruntled artist or something.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: Got fired.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: That was what I heard, at least.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: I should go and make sure that that's what actually happened.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: We have to fact check, I guess.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: Can you write that down as a task to go look up the dick story?
42:07
SPEAKER_01: The little mermaid.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: I'll remember.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: This has turned into the bunny hole mermaid dick episode.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: We were also talking about...
42:17
putting makeup on and that confidence that we get from that and
42:19
like what like what
42:21
is the i guess it's just the programming that we've received
42:25
yeah and it's it's
42:28
fine like it's hard we're fine we're fine the way we are but
42:32
also it's hard to yeah
42:34
like it's it's hard to dissect it and try like i feel like
42:38
getting into your 30s
42:39
SPEAKER_01: and 40s
42:40
SPEAKER_01: becomes about that.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: It becomes like,
42:43
SPEAKER_01: okay,
42:45
I am aware that there are certain things that were kind of fed
42:50
to me lovingly.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: Our parents were doing their best.
42:54
It's not like they were trying to program us or something,
42:57
but society had set it up to where
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Now,
43:01
I think that you and I are both at this point in our life where
43:04
we're like,
43:04
SPEAKER_01: okay,
43:05
SPEAKER_01: we feel like we're on the other side of it.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: But it's so interesting to look back and to like have that.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a mindfuck to be like, whoa.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Was that biological?
43:16
SPEAKER_01: Was it societal?
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Was it just environmental?
43:21
SPEAKER_01: Like was it what I was seeing around me?
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Was it something that I was –
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Or is it just how things are?
43:27
SPEAKER_01: And,
43:27
SPEAKER_01: like,
43:27
SPEAKER_01: it's such a can of worms,
43:30
SPEAKER_01: a can of bunny holes to open up to dig into it and to see,
43:34
SPEAKER_01: like –
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
43:37
SPEAKER_01: like we – I mean,
43:38
it just – you could just sit there like all day and – I just
43:41
feel like I've been
43:42
fired up a lot more lately just because of – I know you don't
43:45
really want to
43:47
SPEAKER_02: contemplate or talk too much about politics,
43:49
SPEAKER_02: but on my end,
43:51
SPEAKER_02: on this – On that Papazon chair.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: On this Papazon chair.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: That is something that has been coming up for me.
43:59
feeling pulled to use my voice yeah as a woman yeah because of
44:05
what i see happening
44:07
and the the um climate that we're in right now and the way that
44:12
it feels like we
44:15
SPEAKER_02: are experiencing a backwards movement yeah because the
44:22
white men in power right now there's like 10 people and then
44:27
there's some women who
44:28
are following suit yeah they're all trying to push this
44:32
narrative of something that
44:36
kind of it it puts us down like 10 to 15 000 pegs yeah and 15
44:43
000 seriously yeah
44:45
SPEAKER_02: and and
44:47
SPEAKER_02: I just can't sit back and not say something.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:53
SPEAKER_02: Not call a spade a spade.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Which is so important.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: I think that it's like, yeah, I mean –
45:00
SPEAKER_01: If we're not going to like speak up,
45:02
SPEAKER_01: it's like at least be aware,
45:04
at least have an awareness and not like not feel because it's I
45:09
can I get it.
45:10
You know,
45:10
I feel like one of those people where I look,
45:12
I try to see everything from all angles.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: And it's like I can understand why a woman who's,
45:18
SPEAKER_01: you know,
45:19
SPEAKER_01: working her ass off and raising kids and,
45:22
SPEAKER_01: you know,
45:22
SPEAKER_01: probably also working as well.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: Here's here's somebody who they, you know, haven't.
45:30
found a reason to distrust yet whether it be you know whatever
45:34
man in her life like
45:35
say like I can't remember what the quote was and I don't want
45:38
to even get into it
45:39
but yeah it's like like take take a seat we've got it from here
45:43
you know like like
45:44
go back into the house and just you know bake some bread and
45:48
raise the children and
45:49
SPEAKER_01: right and that in is in and of itself can be a struggle too because
45:57
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I, as a Libra, have the scales on that balance pretty well.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: Like I love to work and I also love to homestead.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: And like there's this mix of the two where like –
46:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm lucky enough,
46:14
SPEAKER_01: and I think you as well,
46:15
like we are lucky enough to be with partners that totally are
46:18
fine with the balance
46:19
SPEAKER_01: of that.
46:20
Like there's been moments where I have taken care of Oliver and
46:24
now like they're –
46:26
now it's kind of a mix of the two and you've had the same where
46:29
it's like there's
46:29
SPEAKER_01: been times where you've,
46:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:31
kind of footed the bill and then you're able to step back and
46:34
like – Feels like a
46:35
SPEAKER_01: good division of tasks.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Good division of tasks.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: And labor.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, I –
46:41
SPEAKER_01: I worry as well because I think there is a narrative being painted,
46:47
a picture being painted for women that just kind of taking a
46:52
seat – what really
46:54
SPEAKER_01: seems like it's happening is they're like,
46:56
SPEAKER_01: let us –
46:57
Let us kick it back to when we were mostly in charge or when we
47:01
were fully in charge.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: To the 50s.
47:03
To the 50s where you were,
47:05
you know,
47:06
wearing your apron and baking your bread and everything.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: And everyone was happy and smoking cigarettes.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: But what really is happening is it's rights being stripped away.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we may be, you know…
47:22
kind of witty enough to to see that but i do understand and see
47:26
that there and that
47:27
there are obviously many women and people who just don't
47:32
recognize that about what
47:34
is happening yes so yeah and they're not they're not asking a
47:38
lot of the same
47:38
questions yeah or any questions at all yeah and maybe they
47:42
technically have it good
47:46
SPEAKER_02: in quotes because they're not having to worry about
47:52
money or yeah the other things that might stress someone out um
47:58
and i'm saying that
47:59
i'm projecting because i'm like i you know i i love when i have
48:04
money security yeah
48:06
um that is not the only thing that brings happiness and
48:11
security and makes your
48:14
life feel supported there are so many other elements to it so i
48:18
think it's just a
48:19
SPEAKER_02: matter of of
48:21
stopping to ask some more questions and to use your voices and
48:25
to speak up and i
48:28
just want to promote that as much as i can yeah so no notes
48:38
that's the bunny hole
48:39
SPEAKER_01: mermaid dick episode
48:42
SPEAKER_01: The Naked Room Podcast is brought to you by hot coffee,
48:45
SPEAKER_01: cold showers,
48:46
SPEAKER_01: grit and determination,
48:47
SPEAKER_02: the power of being a woman.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: We'd like to thank ourselves.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: This is a self-run operation.
48:52
We have done all of this on our own other than with the help of
48:56
our hot sound guy,
48:57
SPEAKER_02: my husband,
48:58
SPEAKER_02: Curtis Keeper,
48:59
SPEAKER_02: who curated all of our equipment and got us up and running.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: If you'd like to sponsor us, reach out.
49:05
Join us for new episodes every hump day or Wednesday for you
49:09
prudes out there.
49:10
Anywhere you get your podcast fix and follow us on Substack and
49:13
Instagram at The
49:15
SPEAKER_02: Naked Room Pod for behind the scenes and more.