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STSE #74: How Do We Do Right by Dogs AND People? · Sometimes There's Side Eye

• 0:12
  Welcome to Sometimes Their Side Eye, a podcast about two friends
• 0:16
  having real and unfiltered conversations about dogs and
• 0:20
  people. Listen as we talk about our
• 0:22
  lives with dogs, training, behavior, share some laughs and
• 0:26
  a whole lot of banter. I'm Heather.
• 0:30
  And I'm Christy. Heather, what are we talking
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  about this week? We are going to talk about both
• 0:37
  the welfare of dogs and people living in our modern society.
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  What does that look like? Yeah, what's that mean?
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  Oh well, per usual, it starts with Christy and I looking at
• 0:53
  something on social media and then discuss.
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  We discussed it, however, I was way too passionate for the first
• 1:02
  recording so we just had to, you know, tone it down a match.
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  We weren't, we weren't fully prepared to talk about it the
• 1:09
  first time around, so we decided to regroup and come back.
• 1:12
  So here we go. Here we are.
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  Why did we? Why did we?
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  What set us off? Well, so there was there was a
• 1:24
  couple things that set us off 1 You saw a very nice post.
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  I saw a really nice post from a dog trainer who has been doing
• 1:33
  dog training for a couple decades.
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  And she basically in a nutshell was saying I just want everyone
• 1:40
  to have a kind dog. I want families to have a good
• 1:45
  family pet. I want single people to have the
• 1:49
  pet that they hoped for that fits into their life.
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  But at the end of the day, as she's describing all these
• 1:55
  different things and how she doesn't want people to have to
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  change their lives and contort into an animal behaviorist to
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  own whatever dog they have, she really truly just wants everyone
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  to have a kind dog. And that hit me so hard because
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  it was is really truly hitting how I feel.
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  It is. It hits how I feel.
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  And that's hard to argue with that.
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  Yeah. You know, we, we also want
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  people to have a dog that fits in their lifestyle, whatever
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  that lifestyle is, you know, and just to have a kind of a dog
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  that can be trusted in society, a dog that is trusted with
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  family members, with friends, with other animals in the home,
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  all of those things. Yeah.
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  It also, I think there, you know, another thing that had
• 2:51
  happened was I visited someone who adopted a dog and
• 2:57
  unfortunately is having some pretty serious behavior problems
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  and there's children in the home.
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  And so that adds another layer of stress and anxiety and
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  danger. I'll be honest.
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  Yeah, I. Was gonna say danger.
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  Yep, straight up. And you know, after I visited, I
• 3:18
  was talking to somebody and they said like why?
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  Why is that happening? And I just sort of like threw up
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  all this stuff, really. I did.
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  I started rattling all the like different reasons that are
• 3:33
  contributing to, you know, problems like this in modern day
• 3:38
  dogs. And it just, it hit me really
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  hard and it's really sad. And so that was another piece of
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  it that brought it up for me. And then Christy had a couple
• 3:48
  things happen, too. Yeah.
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  So what are some of those reasons that you share?
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  Oh sure. I had shared that I feel that
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  how we live in modern society is very different than how we lived
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  even 20 years ago, which we've talked about it on the podcast
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  before. What we expect from dogs, all
• 4:11
  dogs. I mean most of the dogs don't
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  have a 40 acre farm, you know, to live on.
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  What we expect out of dogs at this point is really
• 4:22
  astronomical, myself included. That is non judgmental.
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  That is me too. We control everything about
• 4:30
  their lives for the most part, including them having to ask to
• 4:35
  go outside to go to the bathroom.
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  Unless you live at Christy's house, not my house.
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  I beat you to it. There are a lot of issues when
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  it comes to backyard breeders or in indiscriminate breeders.
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  And I think that indiscriminate breeding is happening at a very
• 4:58
  high level in large cities added at a different rate because
• 5:05
  there's more opportunity to sell those dogs.
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  And so then you have even more indiscriminate breeding
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  happening, even more disregard for whether or not the dogs that
• 5:17
  they're breeding are nice or the care or all of the stuff that
• 5:22
  goes into it. So that's like my short, my very
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  short list of why I think these things are getting worse and why
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  dog behavior overall is getting worse.
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  Yeah, and we talked about people have kind of spoken on what they
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  want, which is, is a dog that can live peaceably with, you
• 5:45
  know, members of of their household and society and but
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  also don't need to be out roaming the farm for 8 hours a
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  day who don't need 4 hour walks. Don't need a job.
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  Yeah, and and they want just a nice family dog that's just part
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  of the family, whatever the family's doing.
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  And a lot of times that comes in the form of a doodle.
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  I know that that is not. Oh, Christy.
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  I know I'm going to get some backlash, but America's spoken.
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  America likes their doodles. They're everywhere.
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  That's fine. We're not doodle haters here, so
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  don't come out us either way. I'm not a doodle hater as long
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  as they're ethically bred, thank you very much.
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  Yeah, absolutely. Well, one thing that came up
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  while Heather was dealing with this dog situation is there was
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  a post talking about a hoarding situation here in Arizona where
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  there was, what was it like 40 doodles or something like that,
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  that. Assumed doodles.
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  We didn't see assume doodles. Yeah, assume doodles from a dog
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  hoarding situation. And my I'm still very much
• 7:02
  involved with people in the rescue community.
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  And so my feed was saturated with a post about those dogs and
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  then most of those people saying now there is no reason for you
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  to go to a breeder because this dog is now available through
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  Rescue I. Have feelings?
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  And I told Heather I have feelings because I do not want
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  my friends or the general public to think that they have to wait
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  for a tragedy in order to get the dog that they want, the
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  breed that they want. That's I just don't think that
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  is ethical to make people wait for a tragedy.
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  We should be on the front and saying, hey, here are breeders
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  who are doing a lot of the right things.
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  OK, it's a mixed breed, but are they health testing?
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  Are they are they raised in clean conditions?
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  Are they are the parents health tested?
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  Are are all these things happening?
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  Are they sold on contract? Are is there a backup plan if if
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  something happens to that owner so that the dog does not end up
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  in the shelter? That is actually one of the most
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  important things to me. Yes, I want all the health
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  things, not because it guarantees the dog is healthy,
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  but it stacks the deck in the right favor for you.
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  But at the end of the day, I don't want to see that dog in
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  the shelter. And if there's ways that we can
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  prevent that, then let's do that.
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  Let's start getting on the right side of this crisis, the shelter
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  crisis. And when my best friend decided
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  to get a doodle, we did a lot of research, and she did look at
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  rescue doodles. And she did not feel comfortable
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  going that route because, one, it was as expensive as a
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  breeder. And she said I don't like not
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  knowing who the parents are and what they went through before I
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  got them. It's a blind decision.
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  I said that is fair. She goes, I want to meet the
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  parents. I want to see how friendly that
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  dog is, how it interacts with people.
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  I want to see where my puppy was born because she was going with
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  a breeder here in Arizona, so all of those things were
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  available to her. And.
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  She got there. And she adores her dog.
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  She loves her dog so. Much the right dog for her.
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  Yeah, and she keeps in touch with.
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  Her breeder, she has support. Yeah, yeah.
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  And when there's been things that come up, her breeder has
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  gone to her home to help with, you know, just puppy stuff.
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  But that's what I want for people.
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  I want people to, at the end of the day, say I have the best
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  dog. Have you met my my dog is
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  amazing, whether that's a dog you would choose or not.
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  And I think what we gloss over when we say now this, these
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  hoarded dogs are in rescue. So you have to you can go get
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  that. People aren't looking for just a
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  look, just a poodle look, although they are they, they
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  want that, but they're also looking for temperament.
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  And we don't know where these dogs came from, and we do know
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  that their upbringing was very bad, or at least several months.
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  Or years. We're probably very, very poor.
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  Poor nutrition, poor housing, poor.
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  Social. No socialization.
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  No socialization. No grooming socialization.
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  Oh my, those are. Those are all really important
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  things and I have friends who who adopted A wheaten terrier.
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  From. What we believe was a breeding
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  situation used as a, as a breeder in an, you know, in a.
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  Either a puppy mill or backyard bread.
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  Yeah, yeah. What things point to, although
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  the rescue would not say that, but there was enough evidence to
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  that. And guess what?
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  It's been, what, four or five years?
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  Oh my gosh. Years.
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  Yeah, and. She, she still is not a friendly
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  dog. She is still, I mean I still get
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  made fun of because apparently one of the first time I met her,
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  I don't remember saying this but I was like oh she's feral.
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  Yeah, I remember the first time you told me about her and you
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  were like, she's feral, she's feral.
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  You jokingly say, like Staffords are feral because it's like,
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  funny. No, no, no, she's she's a
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  prescription. She's feral.
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  Yeah. And not like, in a mean way.
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  Like she just wasn't. She doesn't know how to live.
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  Yeah, And she is comfortable enough now with her owners that
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  she can go on walks and they can be in the room.
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  But she would actually much prefer, she loves that they are
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  at work a lot. She's like, fantastic, you guys
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  go, you know, but she's not in it to like make friends like
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  she. And that's that's as good as
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  she's going to get. And they have worked so hard and
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  invested so much money. And I don't want that for other
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  people. So for me, what I realized when
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  we were talking about this initially is that there's a
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  serious ethical question about welfare for me, and that is
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  welfare for the dog and welfare for the people.
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  So at what point does the need to save something override
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  totally and completely whether or not that is the right
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  decision and the ethical decision and the decision that
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  gives good welfare to the people and the dog?
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  Like at what point is quote, UN quote, saving something more
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  important that Trump's everything else?
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  Because these dogs who are not in the right home, but people
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  just adopt because they because they are pressured to adopt or
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  they feel like they absolutely must adopt or they feel like
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  they have to save something. And then that that becomes the
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  primary reason that they choose to do it and they're not matched
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  correctly. That it's not about a match.
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  It's just about savior. That is a problem for me and I
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  don't give a crap where the dog's coming from.
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  It's a problem. It would be no different than
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  someone going to a quote UN quote ethical breeder and being
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  matched with the wrong puppy. That's a problem for me.
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  I want people to have the right match and I don't want them to
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  have to turn themselves inside out to try to make that dog into
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  the right match. And a huge piece of that is
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  genetics. Right.
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  Yeah. That that is a component, the
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  genetics and they, I want to be very clear that there are some
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  people who who sign up for tough dogs and love it and thrive and
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  want that and I love those people, but that's not the
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  majority. And it's not who we're talking
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  about. And that's not who we're talking
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  about. So when I say like, I don't want
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  that from my friends. I don't want my that from my
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  friends who don't choose that. Yeah, let me be clear.
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  Like if you choose that, great. Like I'm going to support you in
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  that. There's plenty of them, go for
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  it. But yeah.
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  But I don't want it for unsuspecting.
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  Yeah, the person who I went to see about this dog, they were so
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  passionate about adopting a dog because they used to volunteer
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  and now they are facing a really difficult decision.
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  And this, this decision would be just as heinous no matter where
• 15:35
  the dog had come from. But like, it's just so
• 15:38
  unfortunate, you know, I am sitting there watching the
• 15:43
  entire family being ripped apart over what's going on with this
• 15:47
  dog. And it's it fucking sucks.
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  It does suck, yeah. And I also think it's tough
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  because dogs are different in different environments, and so I
• 16:00
  don't think like, the shelter tried to pull one over.
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  No, no, no, no, not at all. Absolutely not.
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  But once the dog got comfortable, some other behavior
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  issues came up. And that's not to say that it's
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  because it's just like you said, it's not because it's a, a
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  rescue dog. It's just because of it's who
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  this dog is as an individual. Wherever they got, they got it
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  as a puppy from a breeder. Like with this temperament like
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  it would still be the same issues probably.
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  At the end of the day, I this is not what I want for anyone.
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  I don't want anyone's family to be ripped apart over something
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  like this. I don't want anyone's child to
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  be bitten. I I don't want any of the
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  possibilities that are available to happen and so I am left with
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  our society. At this point, majority is
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  requiring seriously stable and sound temperaments for the way
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  we live now. And I think that that really,
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  really needs to be a focus for everyone.
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  No matter how you're getting a dog and no matter how you're
• 17:24
  advertising a dog, it shouldn't just be, oh, there was a
• 17:30
  hoarding case. There's 40 doodles available.
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  Everybody go and get those doodles.
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  Like, no, what do we know about those doodles?
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  Have they been evaluated? Do we truly temperamentally
• 17:43
  evaluated? How long are they going to be in
• 17:45
  a foster home to determine if they're even capable of
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  surviving and being well in a regular home?
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  There's so many unknowns and I just, it really pissed me off,
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  I'll be honest, yeah. Yeah, and I think feels like.
• 18:02
  Blackmail if or like, what is it?
• 18:05
  Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
• 18:08
  It's not quite blackmail, but yeah, yeah, it's something along
• 18:11
  those lines. It's like emotional.
• 18:13
  Terrorism. I love that term.
• 18:16
  Yeah, yes. Yes, yeah, in several of the
• 18:21
  comments said don't come at me with your ethical breeding
• 18:24
  bullshit. And I and I here's I was one of
• 18:31
  those people I I want to be very clear that I came from a spot.
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  I have posts that come up once a year, she shares.
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  Them with me, she shares them with me, everyone.
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  And it's we chuckle. We chuckle.
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  And I, I keep them on there because I want to be reminded
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  where I came from as well. But I said you cannot convince
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  me that with this many dogs up for an adoption that you need to
• 19:01
  go to a breeder. However, what I didn't realize
• 19:06
  was that there were ethical breeders.
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  I didn't know that. Now that I know that there are
• 19:13
  ethical breeders, I'm going to come at you with that bullshit.
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  Because here's the thing, If we can have people just going to
• 19:23
  ethical breeders or rescue, we're not going to need rescue
• 19:29
  for very long. Well, if we can get on the right
• 19:34
  side of, of people going to only ethical breeders or rehoming
• 19:41
  dogs or or rescue, then we're not making money off of puppies
• 19:47
  in terrible conditions. We're not going to these
• 19:51
  unethical breeders. And guess what?
• 19:53
  That's the puppy. The dogs in the shelter are not
• 19:57
  coming from people who have contracts that say bring that
• 20:01
  dog back to me. If they are in the shoulder,
• 20:05
  guess what? Their breeder is willing to go
• 20:07
  and get them to find a way to get that dog back to them.
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  I mean, things happen, things people make, you know, obviously
• 20:16
  we, we do the best we can in rescue and on the breeding side
• 20:20
  to make the best match possible. But things happen.
• 20:22
  Sometimes it doesn't work out, but they're not the ones
• 20:26
  contributing. And that's why I won't stop
• 20:30
  talking about ethical breeders as someone who will only ever
• 20:35
  have rescue docs. And in relation to this episode
• 20:39
  in particular, I won't stop talking about ethical breeders
• 20:43
  because if there are no ethical breeders, where does our stable
• 20:47
  temperament come from? Are there dogs like Jackson who
• 20:51
  are stable as fuck? Are there dogs like the pit
• 20:54
  bulls I've had in my life who are super stable?
• 20:56
  Yes, it happens. It does happen a lot.
• 20:59
  But if we never like that is going to dwindle as time goes on
• 21:08
  because we are screwing things up worse and worse and worse.
• 21:11
  So that like look around behavior is getting worse.
• 21:17
  You know, that's a problem. And so I just, I, I don't, I
• 21:26
  don't know how we do right by dogs in the future as we
• 21:33
  continue to be in larger cities and have less land and have less
• 21:40
  time and have busier lives than we ever had before and have kids
• 21:46
  that have, you know, traveling baseball leagues and football
• 21:51
  and gymnastics. And we're on the PTA.
• 21:56
  Well, not me, but and all these different interests and we're,
• 22:01
  we're buzzing about our lives. We need our dogs, no matter
• 22:06
  where they come from to be able to handle that.
• 22:11
  And to me, if they can't handle it, that's like that is a
• 22:18
  serious welfare issue for. The dog and the people.
• 22:23
  And if we start out the gate with a dog that can already
• 22:28
  handle it, and I'm not a, I'm not a doodle person, right?
• 22:33
  I'm not. But but there are people out
• 22:36
  there who are doodle passionate and they're doodle passionate
• 22:40
  because they really are among other dogs, among other breeders
• 22:45
  working towards dogs who can safely and healthily is
• 22:50
  healthily a word. I don't know, but I'm going to
• 22:53
  use it in our modern society and be OK and be and be the golden
• 23:00
  retriever that I had when I was growing up that just like went
• 23:03
  with the flow. But you know why she was OK?
• 23:05
  Because she was out in the backyard with us running around
• 23:08
  and we were playing in the yard with the all the other kids and
• 23:12
  blah, blah, blah. And she was fully enriched.
• 23:14
  Now we have to look at it, look at our modern dogs and be like,
• 23:17
  OK, well you get like 5 minute potty breaks two times a day and
• 23:23
  you need to be fully enriched. It's yeah, it's.
• 23:29
  Not realistic. It's not realistic, yeah.
• 23:33
  I think that I just would really like people who are sharing
• 23:42
  things and saying things, almost trying to guilt someone into a
• 23:50
  situation, to step back and be like what is right for the dog
• 23:55
  and what is right for the people.
• 23:57
  Yeah, yeah, 'cause I also think there's a lot of inexperienced
• 24:02
  doodle owners, and I don't mean to have like a a slam, but
• 24:06
  there's a lot of people getting doodles as their first dog, and
• 24:09
  that makes sense. Like it's America's breed.
• 24:12
  Like America's breed used to be golden.
• 24:13
  Retriever to get hate man you just sit there like.
• 24:17
  What I mean? I do not endorse that comment.
• 24:22
  OK. What I mean by that is if you go
• 24:25
  to the park and you look around. Yeah.
• 24:28
  You're going to see. Doodles.
• 24:29
  You're going to see a lot of oodle doodles.
• 24:32
  If you go to a dog event, there's going to be more doodles
• 24:36
  than any other. Breed out there just.
• 24:38
  Like it used to be, you saw more golden retrievers.
• 24:41
  And more labs. Than the other breeds.
• 24:44
  That's what I mean, not like we picked America's breed and and
• 24:48
  it's, it's this mixed breed of doodle.
• 24:50
  That's not what I'm saying, 'cause I know I already, I
• 24:55
  already feel you guys coming for me.
• 24:59
  I'm coming for ya. I know wait till they get an AKC
• 25:04
  registration then that it's going to be fine.
• 25:07
  Why you guys? Start the drama.
• 25:08
  Why? I don't know what my point was.
• 25:12
  You. Know what?
• 25:13
  OK, so here's a point that I had thought of and forgot about, and
• 25:17
  now you just reminded me again, I think.
• 25:20
  I think the crux of it for me is the extremism.
• 25:25
  Sit with it for a moment. It's I am bothered by ethical
• 25:33
  breeding enthusiasts who act like their shit don't stink and
• 25:39
  pretend like there aren't people out there doing shady shit and
• 25:45
  ethically breeding right like that.
• 25:47
  That every single person who's ethically breeding is like
• 25:51
  perfection on a fucking plate and that there's absolutely
• 25:56
  nothing wrong going on there. Just as I am deeply offended by
• 26:02
  people acting like anybody who's running a rescue or doing a
• 26:06
  rescue or involved in rescue that their shit don't stink.
• 26:09
  It is, it's, I feel the same, both sides of the coin.
• 26:14
  And so it's that extremism, right?
• 26:17
  I don't like the extremism of all breeders are bad, all
• 26:22
  rescues are good, or all breeders are good, all rescues
• 26:26
  are bad. I don't like any of it.
• 26:28
  I don't like any of that extremism.
• 26:31
  And so I think at the at my core, that's my real problem
• 26:36
  with it. Sit back for a moment and think,
• 26:41
  is there a world where you could open your eyes like Christy did
• 26:46
  and take a moment? And if, if that's you are a
• 26:51
  rescue person and you want to learn, if you're here in Arizona
• 26:55
  and you know who I am, come on over.
• 26:58
  I'll take you to a dog show. I'll let you meet my dogs.
• 27:01
  I will educate you until your brain like literally explodes.
• 27:06
  I will teach. You a podcast with her?
• 27:08
  Yeah. I will teach you every single
• 27:11
  thing I know and allow you to at least experience it so that you
• 27:15
  can make your own opinion. But open your eyes.
• 27:19
  And then the flip side of that is if you're out there and
• 27:23
  you're like an ethical breeder and you need to understand the
• 27:26
  shelter side of it and the rescue side of it, I'd be happy
• 27:29
  to show you because I know a couple places I could take you.
• 27:33
  I think one thing that we talked about before too, with, with the
• 27:37
  doodles was that people have spoken like, hey, we like this,
• 27:41
  we like their temperaments. We like whatever it is that they
• 27:44
  like about it, the look, all of it, the whole package deal.
• 27:48
  And what we're doing for dogs right now is not working for
• 27:51
  them in their, in our current state, the majority of dogs are
• 27:56
  not fulfilled or not enriched. And so then when somebody comes
• 28:00
  along and tries something different, everyone's like, I
• 28:03
  would say the breeding world and the rescue world both are like F
• 28:08
  doodles, like they both equally hate them.
• 28:10
  So you guys all found some common ground like.
• 28:14
  Y'all found an overlap and it was.
• 28:16
  To hate somebody else, like we all hate them equally, but
• 28:22
  they're trying something to make, they're trying to make a
• 28:27
  breed work for today. And I know that comes with some
• 28:31
  ethical consequences along the way too.
• 28:35
  And I, I understand what rescue is saying when when they say
• 28:39
  like, Hey, you shouldn't be mixing mutts, you know all that.
• 28:44
  I understand why breeders are not happy about it.
• 28:46
  But at the same time, there's some really well informed
• 28:51
  intelligent people behind this breed as well who are working
• 28:57
  towards that AKC registration. So will it just suddenly be OK
• 29:01
  if they're AKC registered or will everyone still hate the
• 29:05
  doodle on bus? But see, and it's so weird
• 29:08
  because I say everyone hates the doodle, but everyone loves the
• 29:12
  doodle. Not everyone but America seems
• 29:17
  to love the doodle. I mean, I think the, I think
• 29:20
  that the average American family loves the doodle, right?
• 29:24
  But the majority of the people that I know are, are ethical
• 29:30
  breed breeder people and then rescue people.
• 29:33
  So like, if you're an ethical breeder person, you are, like we
• 29:39
  talked about in one of our last episodes, a crazy passionate
• 29:42
  person about what you do. And then if you're a rescue
• 29:45
  person, you're crazy passionate about what you do.
• 29:47
  If you're a dog sport person, you're crazy passionate about
• 29:49
  what you do. Like, we are actually, although
• 29:52
  it doesn't feel that way because that's what we know, We are
• 29:55
  actually the anomalies. We are not the average American
• 29:58
  family. We're not.
• 30:00
  And so it's very hard to, like, look around when all you see
• 30:04
  around you are US crazy people. I mean that in the best way.
• 30:08
  Yeah. To understand why the average
• 30:13
  American family wants an oodle thing.
• 30:15
  I actually have a friend. It's very interesting.
• 30:19
  She is. I've known her for probably 20
• 30:22
  years. Another Rottweiler friend I
• 30:24
  still haven't met in person, but have known her 20 years.
• 30:27
  And she is a hardcore Rottweiler rescue supporter and ethical
• 30:33
  breeding supporter. She has dogs from both and her
• 30:38
  daughter has a young family. Well not young anymore.
• 30:43
  Gosh the daughters are teenagers but I remember when they were
• 30:46
  born young family and they probably 3 years ago decided
• 30:53
  they wanted a family dog. Now of course my friend is
• 30:57
  Rottweiler through and through right?
• 30:59
  She usually has two to three Rottweilers at all times.
• 31:04
  That was not what the family wanted.
• 31:07
  The family wanted a doodle. And when the family goes away,
• 31:16
  my friend is who sits because she's grandma.
• 31:20
  She sits for the doodle, right? And so she'll post pictures of
• 31:27
  the Rottweilers and the doodle. And she has to say on her post
• 31:34
  don't don't come at me with the anti doodle shit.
• 31:39
  I helped them find an ethical breeder.
• 31:43
  They actually, she ran into the person at a health clinic doing
• 31:48
  health testing and that's how she met them.
• 31:50
  And this breeder is doing everything that you ask of a
• 31:55
  purebred breeder and call them ethical.
• 31:57
  So like, don't come at me. And she tells me that the dog is
• 32:00
  a wonderful, wonderful family pet.
• 32:03
  She says that it fits into their busy family perfectly.
• 32:08
  And so isn't it an example of like, that's what we're talking
• 32:13
  about? Her, her daughter's family are
• 32:16
  the people who we're talking about.
• 32:18
  And those are the people who don't want to turn themselves
• 32:22
  inside out to become a dog behaviorist so that they can own
• 32:26
  whatever. Schnoodle Doodle was found at a
• 32:30
  hoarding operation that lived in a cage 3 inches tall for its
• 32:34
  entire life. Or want a backyard bread
• 32:39
  Doberman? That's going to, you know,
• 32:41
  whatever, It doesn't matter both sides of the coin.
• 32:45
  So that's what we're talking about.
• 32:47
  Yeah. And I just feel so passionately
• 32:51
  that it would be who of us in rescue to not see ethical
• 32:59
  breeders as the enemy, but our partner in in helping end dog
• 33:10
  homelessness and and dog cruelty.
• 33:14
  And dogs who don't know how to live a good life because they're
• 33:21
  literally unable to. That they're physically and
• 33:28
  mentally incapable. Yeah.
• 33:31
  And if you want to learn how to navigate that outside of
• 33:37
  listening to us, a really great rescue is DHDR Desert Harbor
• 33:44
  Doberman Rescue. They're walking both lines.
• 33:47
  They they are doing it and they're doing it well.
• 33:50
  And so I think that's an example.
• 33:53
  There are other purebred examples, rescue examples out
• 33:57
  there as well, but that's just the one we know.
• 33:59
  We've had Christy on the podcast, Christy Cole.
• 34:03
  But yeah, I, I just, my heart hurts for every single family
• 34:10
  and every single person who has been at their wit's end.
• 34:16
  And I've had clients. I've seen it with clients, with
• 34:18
  puppies, puppies, one client in particular already in tears over
• 34:24
  their 16 year, 16 week old puppy who was truly not well and what
• 34:31
  that looks like. And they're in for, you know,
• 34:35
  and it doesn't matter where that dog came from.
• 34:37
  I don't care. At the end of the day, that is
• 34:40
  the burden of that person now. Yeah.
• 34:44
  And that's horrible. Yeah, yeah.
• 34:47
  At the end of the day, we just want to do better by dogs and
• 34:51
  better by people. Yep, Yep, I agree.
• 34:56
  And I don't think that comes about when you shut either side
• 34:59
  down completely. Yep, I agree.
• 35:04
  If you've enjoyed this episode, subscribe, rate and share us
• 35:09
  wherever you get your podcast. Also come on over to Instagram
• 35:13
  and engage with us at Sometimes Their Side Eye.
• 35:16
  Thanks for listening everybody. Talk to you next time.
• 35:19
  Bye bye.