Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Lady doctor and hubby found dead, execution style, at high class botanical garden.

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Lady doctor and hubby found dead, execution style, at high class botanical garden. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Sirius XM, thank you for being our partner. How does
1:09
Speaker 1: a lady doctor and her husband end up executed? Targeted, assassinated,
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Speaker 1: lying dead in a ditch? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace?
1:36
Speaker 1: How does that happen? A lady doctor shot dead along
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Speaker 1: with her husband, no sign whatsoever of homicide, suicide packed
1:45
Speaker 1: between them? Who would end a husband to shoot them dead?
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Speaker 1: On the side of the road, leaving their bodies in
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Speaker 1: a ditch. Take a listen now to WKOW news reporter
2:00
Speaker 1: Andrew Meerka, we've learned the victims in yesterday's double homicide
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Speaker 1: where a UW doctor and her husband. The Dane County
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Speaker 1: Medical Examiner says fifty two year old doctor Beth Potter
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Speaker 1: and her husband, fifty seven year old Robin Carr, both
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Speaker 1: died of homicidal related trauma. UW Madison Police say someone
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Speaker 1: jogging through the arboretum around six thirty yesterday morning saw
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Speaker 1: Potter and car lying in a ditch. Car was pronounced
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Speaker 1: dead at the scene, while Potter died at the hospital.
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Speaker 1: Officers have worked around the clock to canvass the neighborhood
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Speaker 1: and trackdown leads, but so far still have no suspect.
2:35
Speaker 1: Officers did confirm to twenty seven News that the killings
2:37
Speaker 1: were targeted, though they're still investigating why. With me an
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Speaker 1: all star panel first of all renowned lawyer joining me
2:44
Speaker 1: out of the LA jurisdiction. Troy Slayton has tried multiple
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Speaker 1: cases in multiple jurisdictions. Bobby Chicane, former FBI special agent, screenwriter,
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Speaker 1: Criminal Minds professor, Friend six Jacksonville State University, author of
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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott, Morgan, death
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Speaker 1: investigator and renowned psychiatrists joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,
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Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold. But first to special guests joining us
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Speaker 1: from w MTV NBC fifteen Madison, Sierra Gillespie. Sierra, thank
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Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. Sierra, First of all,
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Speaker 1: explain what the lady doc and her husband were doing
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Speaker 1: at an arboretum at that time of day, Hiny and C. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's something we're still working to find out. I mean,
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Speaker 1: we do know that doctor Bess Potter was very active,
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Speaker 1: love to be outside. That's the jogging trail on the
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Speaker 1: campus of University of Wisconsin, Madison, but we don't know
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Speaker 1: for sure why they were there that morning. Interesting, Sierra
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Speaker 1: Gillespie WMTV. Why were they there because if it were
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Speaker 1: their usual jogging track, which I advise against, strongly against.
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Speaker 1: You know, Sierra Gillespie, I was doing a ton of
4:01
Speaker 1: research for a book that's going to come out called
4:04
Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back against America's Crime Wave,
4:07
Speaker 1: and part of it is about staying safe while you're
4:09
Speaker 1: exercising do not use the same route all the time.
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Speaker 1: That is what happened to Vanessa Marquette, that is what
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Speaker 1: happened to so many other people that use a regular
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Speaker 1: jogging path. And if you have somebody has a grudge
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Speaker 1: against you, or you're in a regular spot every day,
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Speaker 1: same time, you're a target for a killer. So I'm
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Speaker 1: just trying to figure out if that's what these two
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Speaker 1: were doing there, or if it's something even more clandestine,
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Speaker 1: such as they were lured there. I'm interested. Sarah Sierra
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Speaker 1: Gillespie joining me from WMTV NBC fifteen Madison Sierra. Do
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Speaker 1: we know what they were wearing? Were they wearing jogging outfits,
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Speaker 1: running issues? Any idea? As of right now, that information
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Speaker 1: has not been at least I've been pushing police on
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Speaker 1: more details, but they have been pretty tight lipped about this,
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Speaker 1: so I'm not sure whether they were wearing job interesting.
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Speaker 1: Interesting and there's a reason for that. Former FBI special
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Speaker 1: agent screenwriter on Criminal Minds, Bobby each Cone with me, Bobby,
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Speaker 1: It's very important that for a period of time at least,
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Speaker 1: cops keep certain details close to the vest. Why explain that,
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Speaker 1: Why not release what they were wearing? Why not tell
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Speaker 1: the public all the information. Maybe the public could help.
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Speaker 1: There's a reason for it, Bobby each Cone, True, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: and I think you hit on it when you said
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Speaker 1: they could have been lowered there. I mean we want
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Speaker 1: as an investigator, we want to keep everything as close
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Speaker 1: to the vest all the time. The reason we release
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Speaker 1: things for the public is if it invests, if it
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Speaker 1: aids the investigation. And so when we bring somebody into custody,
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Speaker 1: they have all kinds of stories. They'll deny what they did,
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Speaker 1: they'll denye where they were, and when we question them,
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Speaker 1: we want to be able to test they of their
6:00
Speaker 1: statements to us. And the more we put out in public,
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Speaker 1: the more they can form their story or their baby
6:07
Speaker 1: or whatever it is to fit the facts as they
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Speaker 1: know they are based on what's been released to the press.
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Speaker 1: So we try to keep very early on an investigation,
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Speaker 1: even before we have somebody to talk to a question
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Speaker 1: about it, as close to the vest, so that when
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Speaker 1: they start trying to explain their whereabouts or explain their behavior,
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Speaker 1: they're not doing it to try to conform to what
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Speaker 1: they know. We already know. Choice Layton, don't you just
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Speaker 1: love it when your client is being questioned by police,
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Speaker 1: of course before you get there to make it be quiet,
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Speaker 1: and they blurt out something like I didn't know they're
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Speaker 1: going to be jogging that day, when that hasn't been
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Speaker 1: released and only the killer would know that detail. Doesn't
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Speaker 1: that just strike a chord in you, choice, Laton, when
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Speaker 1: you see that in the transcript of what your client
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Speaker 1: has said. Well, that's why I always tell my clients
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Speaker 1: that nothing good from talking to the police. And even
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Speaker 1: in the situation where my client has done nothing wrong,
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Speaker 1: Oh that's every time. Because you've never had a guilty client,
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Speaker 1: have you most of the time, no, Nancy, But even
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Speaker 1: innocent people can sometimes get themselves embroiled in something by
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Speaker 1: speaking to the police, because the police not good investigators
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Speaker 1: like Bobby Chacone, but others can take innocent stories and
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Speaker 1: twist them to match the facts of a case. You know,
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Speaker 1: it's interesting, choice, Lytton. I used to tell my juries
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Speaker 1: when I would do closing statements, not openings, because those
7:38
Speaker 1: are limited the facts. But in argument at closing, for instance,
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Speaker 1: if I would have a defendant run, I would very
7:47
Speaker 1: clearly say to the jury, you know, when you see
7:50
Speaker 1: a state trooper come up behind you on the interstate
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Speaker 1: what do you do hit the pedal to the mettle
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Speaker 1: and take off at one hundred mph? No, because you
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Speaker 1: don't need to flee. So why did this guy the
8:02
Speaker 1: minute he sees the cops take off running nothing but
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Speaker 1: tailhole and elbows. That's all they could see. You ran
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Speaker 1: off in the distance. Why why run? So it's what
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Speaker 1: you're saying, Bobby Chicoon. Did you hear that nothing good
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Speaker 1: comes out of talking to police? I talked to police.
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Speaker 1: I don't take off at one hundred mph. So, yeah,
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Speaker 1: you know, Troy does an excellent shot for his clients.
8:25
Speaker 1: But you know that's the that's the problem that we
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Speaker 1: have is that you're a problem. Troy. You're a problem. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: We you know, we need early an investigation. We need
8:35
Speaker 1: everybody to be as honest and open as we can.
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Speaker 1: And you know, I think that personally in my in
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Speaker 1: my career of many many good things have happened to
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Speaker 1: people because they've talked to the police and talked to me.
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Speaker 1: And you know what, Bobby Chicoon, I will never forget
8:49
Speaker 1: when you and I first taught in depth, you were
8:53
Speaker 1: in charge of a rescue, well, a recovery mission of
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Speaker 1: a young girl that have been kidnapped from a coffee stand.
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Speaker 1: She had been raped, she had been murdered. You were
9:06
Speaker 1: trying to find her body. You ended up deep diving
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Speaker 1: in subzero water to pull up body parts in plastic bags.
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Speaker 1: You know what you're talking about, as do you. Troy
9:30
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you
9:34
Speaker 1: just joining us, we are talking about doctor Beth Potter
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Speaker 1: and her husband Robin apparently targeted for assassination in a ditch.
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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to what
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Speaker 1: friends say about these two. Who would want them assassinate?
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Speaker 1: Think about your favorite neighbor and then you find out
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Speaker 1: they've been shot dead, targeted in a ditch. This is
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Speaker 1: a wm TV NBC fifteen. Our friend, Sierra Gillespie. The
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Speaker 1: scene of the UW Arboretum is quiet today, but just
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Speaker 1: two days ago, the bodies of Robin Carry and his wife,
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Speaker 1: doctor Beth Potter were found in the Arboretum ditch. Friends
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Speaker 1: we spoke to say they're still coming to terms with
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Speaker 1: this loss. There are Noah's family. Friends call the loss devastating,
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Speaker 1: saying fifty two year old doctor Beth Potter and fifty
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Speaker 1: seven year old Robin Carry were staples of the community.
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Speaker 1: Potter worked as a doctor with UW Health, recently taking
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Speaker 1: the lead on COVID nineteen care for employee health. Friends
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Speaker 1: say social distancing makes news of their deaths harder to
10:41
Speaker 1: cope with. I would say it's devastating because everybody wants
10:44
Speaker 1: to get together and celebrate his life and support one
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Speaker 1: another and this tough time. The pair had three children
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Speaker 1: and spent many hours supporting their love of soccer, carry
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Speaker 1: even acting as coach. He had a love and enthusiasm
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Speaker 1: game with everything you did, all the people he knew,
11:03
Speaker 1: you know, I immediately thought Sierra Gillespie joining me special
11:06
Speaker 1: guest WMTV, NBC fifteen there in Madison. I immediately thought
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Speaker 1: of my son's basketball coach and he's been his coach
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Speaker 1: now for years, and his soccer coach and my daughter's
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Speaker 1: volleyball coaches. I love them. And You've got a special
11:27
Speaker 1: place in heaven to be a coach to, for instance,
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Speaker 1: little league. And I'm thinking about these two. I mean,
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Speaker 1: who could be more scrubbed in sunshine than a doctor
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Speaker 1: fighting COVID nineteen and a soccer coach. For Pete's sake,
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Speaker 1: what do we know about these two? And Siah Sierra Gillespie.
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Speaker 1: I'm asking because very often you identify a killer based
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Speaker 1: on the circle of associates of the victim. You start
11:54
Speaker 1: with the family, then you start moving out. So what
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Speaker 1: do we really know, Sierra Gillespie. I mean, I just
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Speaker 1: covered a case where this local DJ, April Kaufman I
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Speaker 1: think was her name, was married to an upstanding doctor
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Speaker 1: or had his own clinic or to the hospital. How
12:11
Speaker 1: did we know he was selling oxy to Hell's Angels
12:16
Speaker 1: and he had a drug ring going. Nobody knew. So
12:20
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about these victims? The only
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Speaker 1: thing I hear about them, it's all wonderful. Yeah. Actually,
12:26
Speaker 1: some of the friends that I spoke with you heard
12:28
Speaker 1: him in that story. I asked him what do you
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Speaker 1: want them to be remembered for? And he said, honestly,
12:35
Speaker 1: it would be very difficult for you to find somebody
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Speaker 1: who could say something bad about them. They were just
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Speaker 1: really good people. I mean, for twenty years, Robin Carry
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Speaker 1: was coaching soccer in the Madison area, give three kids,
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Speaker 1: and that's from when they were about five or six
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Speaker 1: until I mean graduating high school. Thousands of kids he
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Speaker 1: was coaching and working with their parents and honestly. I mean,
12:56
Speaker 1: like you were talking about with your kids, these people
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Speaker 1: or angels to work with young children and to form
13:01
Speaker 1: them and to learn all the rules and regulations. I mean,
13:05
Speaker 1: you learn a lot out of sports, more than just
13:07
Speaker 1: the actual game. So that was Robin Carry and his wife,
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Speaker 1: doctor Bess Potter. I mean we touched on it there too,
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Speaker 1: just days before her murder. She was working on COVID
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Speaker 1: nineteen research. I mean, she really cares about the community.
13:20
Speaker 1: She was a prominent professor here at w Madison. And
13:23
Speaker 1: another thing that friends were telling me to these people
13:26
Speaker 1: were pillars of the community. They were a big deal
13:29
Speaker 1: here and they really cared about the Madison area. You
13:32
Speaker 1: know what, Sierra Gillespie, I'm sure you didn't maintay, but
13:34
Speaker 1: you're really hurting me. I'll tell you why. Doctor Angela
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Speaker 1: Arnold is a renowned psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Angela,
13:44
Speaker 1: I had to wrestle with this for the first time
13:47
Speaker 1: as really a young girl when my fiance was Martyred.
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Speaker 1: Keith was like a ray of sunshine. Couldn't be more
13:57
Speaker 1: good natured, smart, handsome. On baseball scholarship, I mean, you
14:05
Speaker 1: couldn't ask for anyone sweeter or better heart than him.
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Speaker 1: And then he's murdered by somebody that worked on a
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Speaker 1: construction crew, got fired the week before Keith started his job.
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Speaker 1: And we always hear that question, doctor Angela, why do
14:24
Speaker 1: bad things happened to good people? I still don't understand it.
14:28
Speaker 1: I mean, I accept it, but I don't understand it,
14:31
Speaker 1: doctor Angela. And this left this community struggling with these
14:35
Speaker 1: two murders. Well, I don't think we're ever going to
14:38
Speaker 1: completely understand it, Nancy. But if but if the tourers
14:42
Speaker 1: were trying, and I don't know, but if the killers
14:44
Speaker 1: were trying to make some sort of statement, then who
14:47
Speaker 1: better to kill than the pillers of the society. That's
14:50
Speaker 1: a heck of a statement. What statement? I've just got
14:54
Speaker 1: to think, to Joe Scott Morgan, following up on what
14:57
Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold just said, this is more than just
15:01
Speaker 1: some statement. It's not about COVID nineteen, it's not about soccer.
15:06
Speaker 1: So when you are presented, Joe Scott Morgan, with an
15:11
Speaker 1: outdoor crime scene, that's a whole different animal than a
15:18
Speaker 1: contained crime scene, such as in somebody's basement or their
15:21
Speaker 1: garage or their car. When you've got two dead bodies
15:25
Speaker 1: in a ditch, You've got a serious crime scene challenge.
15:29
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, it's important. You've mentioned the word
15:33
Speaker 1: ditch several times. That goes to my thought that there
15:37
Speaker 1: was a potential attempt, at least superficially, to conceal what
15:43
Speaker 1: had been done they're put into. They're referring to a ditch.
15:47
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's actually a ditch as we
15:49
Speaker 1: think about. It might be a depressed area, but my
15:51
Speaker 1: suspicion is it's running along the side of one of
15:54
Speaker 1: these walking trails. Now, from an evidentury standpoint, let's say,
15:57
Speaker 1: for instance, they were walked out there. They were just
16:01
Speaker 1: taken to that isolated location. Why so close to the road,
16:06
Speaker 1: you know, why would you do it there? Or were
16:09
Speaker 1: the individuals laying in wait for these individuals, say, for instance,
16:13
Speaker 1: the people are persons that might have targeted them. And
16:18
Speaker 1: that's another word that keeps coming up over and over
16:21
Speaker 1: and over again. If they were waiting out there, we're
16:24
Speaker 1: gonna have evidence, say, for instance, like footprints, because this
16:28
Speaker 1: is a nature area. We're talking about soft kind of
16:30
Speaker 1: malleable dirt, an arboretum, and for anybody that doesn't know
16:34
Speaker 1: arboretum is like a botanical garden that's specifically devoted to trees.
16:40
Speaker 1: That's my understanding of what an arboretum is. Go go ahead, Yeah,
16:43
Speaker 1: And so the soil is going to be very kind
16:45
Speaker 1: of loamy and soft and that sort of thing. And
16:48
Speaker 1: if you have safe, for instance, a couple of people
16:51
Speaker 1: or one person that's waiting behind a tree and an
16:53
Speaker 1: area of concealment, if you can identify that area, you
16:57
Speaker 1: can go and look and see if they're our footprints,
17:01
Speaker 1: say that have been left behind or other items, Say
17:04
Speaker 1: they were smoking a cigarette and they dropped it there
17:06
Speaker 1: while they were waiting. How long had they been waiting there?
17:10
Speaker 1: And why go to the trouble of placing these individuals,
17:13
Speaker 1: these victims in a ditch. That those are two big
17:16
Speaker 1: questions that come up with me, Bobby Chicone. Couldn't you
17:20
Speaker 1: tell from the crime scene whether they had been killed
17:22
Speaker 1: elsewhere and disposed of in the ditch or whether they
17:26
Speaker 1: were killed in the ditch? And unlike in a contained
17:29
Speaker 1: crime scene such as in a bedroom or in a
17:32
Speaker 1: car or in the basement, you're not going to be
17:34
Speaker 1: able to get, for instance, blood spatter versus blood drops,
17:38
Speaker 1: which are a big difference evidentiary wise, it's going to
17:43
Speaker 1: be a more difficult feat to figure out what exactly
17:48
Speaker 1: happened when you're out in nature. The blood seeps into
17:50
Speaker 1: the ground, it's harder to find, the wind blows, the
17:55
Speaker 1: soil is disturbed. How can you tell if they were
17:57
Speaker 1: killed there or they were deposited there. Well, you're exactly right, Nancy.
18:01
Speaker 1: It will be more difficult, and it will be more
18:03
Speaker 1: difficult depending on the weather and how long they were there. Um.
18:07
Speaker 1: But there are some telltale signs that will um will
18:10
Speaker 1: take place. Like you said, did they have their jogging
18:13
Speaker 1: clothes on? Were they out there? You'll look at their clothes,
18:15
Speaker 1: will examine their clothes, what they had on them. Um.
18:18
Speaker 1: We will be able to tell hopefully where they came
18:21
Speaker 1: from in the immediate preceding hours, again depending on how
18:24
Speaker 1: long they were there and the weather that was was
18:27
Speaker 1: existed while they were there. Um. But there are certain
18:30
Speaker 1: things we will tell. You will not be able to
18:31
Speaker 1: tell as much obviously as an indoor crime scene that
18:35
Speaker 1: was static and that was preserved. Um. There are a
18:38
Speaker 1: few things that are that are vital that you might
18:40
Speaker 1: be able to tell and might be able to to
18:42
Speaker 1: to um to determine and that is were they jogging, um?
18:46
Speaker 1: Were they in a car recently? Were they you know,
18:49
Speaker 1: were they outdoors you know, for for an extended period
18:51
Speaker 1: of time. So there are things and all of those
18:53
Speaker 1: pieces will be gathered as much as they can UM
18:57
Speaker 1: and to build the story of what happened in the
19:00
Speaker 1: seating hours you know, before their deaths. Prime stories with
19:16
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, how does a college professor doing COVID
19:22
Speaker 1: nineteen research and her husband, soccer coach for years end
19:28
Speaker 1: up executed in a ditch at an arboretum, a botanical garden.
19:33
Speaker 1: Nobody saw anything, Nobody knows anything. Take a listen now
19:37
Speaker 1: to our friends at wi SC Channel three, Madeline O'Neill
19:42
Speaker 1: u W police tell me they have no update today
19:45
Speaker 1: as they continue the search for a suspect or suspects
19:48
Speaker 1: in the deaths of Beth Potter and Robin carry Here
19:52
Speaker 1: at the arboretum, a double homicide they say was targeted.
19:55
Speaker 1: People I spoke with today close to the two say
19:57
Speaker 1: the husband and wife were amazing parents of three and
20:01
Speaker 1: the loss of them was leaving a really big hole.
20:05
Speaker 1: He was definitely missed when he wasn't here. Robin Carry
20:08
Speaker 1: was always around at training four Warriors, the fitness program
20:12
Speaker 1: referred to as a dojo in Middleton, something fellow Jim
20:15
Speaker 1: Goers took to heart. He's always dollars, had something to say.
20:21
Speaker 1: And then even though what was going on in the play,
20:24
Speaker 1: always something and it was it was a dit to
20:28
Speaker 1: be your argument. We have a swear jar and it's
20:30
Speaker 1: a dollar for the word can't. And he would put
20:34
Speaker 1: a dollar in safe because he didn't want to do
20:39
Speaker 1: chin ups. That's a tiny peak into the psyches of
20:43
Speaker 1: these two murder victims. They a lot of people have
20:46
Speaker 1: a swear jar in their home. If you say an
20:50
Speaker 1: ugly word, you have to put in a dollar. Their
20:52
Speaker 1: swear word was can't. I can't And one of them
20:57
Speaker 1: put in ten dollars ahead of time in case. He said.
21:00
Speaker 1: We are trying to unravel the mystery of a college
21:04
Speaker 1: professor and her husband found dead in a ditch, and
21:09
Speaker 1: I think of my sister, who is a college professor,
21:12
Speaker 1: a real brainiac, with her nose in a book, constantly
21:17
Speaker 1: researching and writing and teaching classes. Who in the world
21:22
Speaker 1: would want to gun down a college professor and her
21:26
Speaker 1: soccer coach husband, who would do something like that. We
21:30
Speaker 1: are left with trying to analyze the clues left in
21:35
Speaker 1: a ditch, a ditch police being extremely close to the
21:39
Speaker 1: vest in the case. But when you look at the
21:42
Speaker 1: personalities of doctor Beth Potter and her husband, Robin Carey,
21:47
Speaker 1: who in the world would have targeted them. Now, I'm
21:50
Speaker 1: sure you all remember the case of Tara Grinstead, the
21:54
Speaker 1: Beauty Queen high school teacher working on her master's degree
21:59
Speaker 1: who goes missing and has never seen alive again after
22:04
Speaker 1: a school barbecue. Years passed before the killer was traced
22:10
Speaker 1: back to being wonderful student years before she was killed.
22:15
Speaker 1: So too, doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrists joining me from the
22:19
Speaker 1: Atlanta area. Doctor Arnold, you never know in that case,
22:25
Speaker 1: Tera Grinstead's killer was one of her students years before.
22:30
Speaker 1: Now we have doctor Beth Potter, a professor there in Wisconsin.
22:35
Speaker 1: I think the reason they're saying they're targeted, Doctor Angela Arnold,
22:39
Speaker 1: is because there's no rape. There's no sex attack, and
22:42
Speaker 1: apparently no robbery. So with no robbery and no rape,
22:46
Speaker 1: no sex attack, what's the potential motive to kill somebody
22:49
Speaker 1: out in the open and leave their bodies hidden in
22:53
Speaker 1: a ditch. You never know who you're teaching, who you're
22:56
Speaker 1: working with that may be murderous. Doctor Angela Arnold. It's
23:01
Speaker 1: very scary, isn't it. And Nancy, one of the one
23:04
Speaker 1: of the questions that's just going through my mind is
23:07
Speaker 1: could this could this have been some sort of gang
23:10
Speaker 1: related activity? Could this could this have been a gang initiation?
23:16
Speaker 1: I find it really hard to believe, Bobby Chico, that
23:19
Speaker 1: gangman members are hanging out at an arboretum, the botanical gardens. Yeah.
23:25
Speaker 1: Having work gangs in New York City in the eighties,
23:27
Speaker 1: I don't it doesn't seem to me like it would
23:29
Speaker 1: be the type of gang initiations. When they do try
23:32
Speaker 1: to initiate members by pulling off a violent crime, it's
23:36
Speaker 1: usually a violent crime that's consistent with other activities of
23:39
Speaker 1: the gang. It'll be a robbery or drug robbery or
23:42
Speaker 1: something like that. On those lines. It will also be
23:44
Speaker 1: a victim unfortunately that is benefits the gang to be killed.
23:49
Speaker 1: It'll be a rival gang member, or it'll be a
23:51
Speaker 1: store owner that hasn't paid extortion money or something like that.
23:55
Speaker 1: It'll be something at least peripherbly related to the gang activities. Guys,
23:59
Speaker 1: we are talking about the shocking murders of a college
24:03
Speaker 1: professor fighting COVID nineteen through research and her husband both
24:09
Speaker 1: found dead slang shot dead in a ditch, and then
24:14
Speaker 1: a stunning turn in the case. Take a listen to
24:18
Speaker 1: our friends at mass and PD. This is Chief Kristen Roman. Understandably,
24:24
Speaker 1: a violent crime such as this creates significant concern and
24:28
Speaker 1: fear throughout the community. To this, I offer that the
24:32
Speaker 1: suspect is known to the family. We believe that this
24:35
Speaker 1: was not a random act. It was calculated, cold blooded
24:40
Speaker 1: and senseless, and we will continue to do all we
24:43
Speaker 1: can to bring justice to Robin and Beth, their family,
24:47
Speaker 1: and their loved ones. While this arrest is a significant development,
24:53
Speaker 1: no criminal investigation ends at the point of an arrest.
24:57
Speaker 1: This remains a very active police investiga and I encourage
25:01
Speaker 1: anyone who may yet have information about this case to
25:04
Speaker 1: contact us. A sudden and unexpected arrest goes down in
25:09
Speaker 1: the case. But what do we know, Jackie. Let's go
25:13
Speaker 1: to cut seven. This is NBC fifteen NIJE reporter. Our
25:18
Speaker 1: friend joining us today, Sierra Gillespie, eighteen year old Cary Sandford.
25:22
Speaker 1: What we do know? He was a senior here at
25:25
Speaker 1: Madison West High School and personally knew Robin Carry and
25:29
Speaker 1: doctor Beth Potter's family. It was calculated, cold blooded, and senseless.
25:35
Speaker 1: Police say Sandford specifically targeted Carry and Potter. What we
25:39
Speaker 1: don't know is why a jograph found the couple in
25:42
Speaker 1: a ditch early Tuesday morning. Since that time, we have
25:46
Speaker 1: worked tirelessly to investigate this heinous crime and find those responsible.
25:51
Speaker 1: NBC fifteen has confirmed Sandford played football at Madison West
25:56
Speaker 1: High School, where the couple's daughter, Mimi goes to school.
25:59
Speaker 1: Court record show officers arrested Stanford last year on a
26:03
Speaker 1: Class A misdemeanor account of auto theft. We will continue
26:07
Speaker 1: to do all we can to bring justice to Robin
26:10
Speaker 1: and Beth, their family, and their loved ones. Wow. Okay,
26:14
Speaker 1: an unexpected arrest of a young man, a teen and
26:20
Speaker 1: this is what we know to Sierra Gillespie special guests
26:22
Speaker 1: joining us from WMTV NBC fifty Madison. So the killer
26:29
Speaker 1: went to school with the victim's daughter, went to high
26:33
Speaker 1: school with Mimi the daughter. Yeah, So what we know
26:36
Speaker 1: is he went to Madison West High School and Mimi
26:39
Speaker 1: is still a student there right now. We also know
26:42
Speaker 1: that Robin Carry helped coach with the Madison West Soccer club,
26:47
Speaker 1: so we know that they were both very involved with
26:50
Speaker 1: the area, and this eighteen year old carry Sandford, had
26:53
Speaker 1: to have known the family. We also do know from
26:56
Speaker 1: his Facebook he was friends with Mimi, the daughter. They
27:00
Speaker 1: had had a couple of comments back and forth together,
27:02
Speaker 1: so we knew that they definitely had a relation together. Okay,
27:05
Speaker 1: hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa, Sierra Gillespie. As this is unfolding,
27:10
Speaker 1: the only connection we really see is that the alleged
27:14
Speaker 1: trigger man, eighteen year old went to school with the
27:19
Speaker 1: victim's daughter, Mimi. And I understand that the dad coached
27:25
Speaker 1: some at that school, but he coached soccer and this guy,
27:30
Speaker 1: the trigger man, was a football player, so that he
27:33
Speaker 1: would not have coached him. So the connection is the
27:36
Speaker 1: teen daughter Mimi. Right, That's exactly right. Let me understand,
27:42
Speaker 1: you know, off, I guess Facebook comments back and forth
27:47
Speaker 1: between Mimi and the alleged trigger man, what kind of comments.
27:51
Speaker 1: So some of his Facebook is kind of blocked off,
27:54
Speaker 1: but from what I found before it was deactivated, she
27:57
Speaker 1: had commented on one of his posts bay like the
28:00
Speaker 1: abbreviation for before anyone else, and it had a little
28:04
Speaker 1: emoji with a heart, so we know that they clearly
28:07
Speaker 1: were familiar with each other. Were they dating that We
28:11
Speaker 1: don't know for sure as of yet, but I mean
28:14
Speaker 1: I don't call my friends bay. Wow. This is a
28:17
Speaker 1: wrinkle in the case no one expected and opens up
28:22
Speaker 1: a host of possibilities. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for
28:42
Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, I Nancy Grace, this
28:46
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
28:49
Speaker 1: at Fox Nation. As well as Serious XM one eleven.
28:54
Speaker 1: The circumstances surrounding the death of a college profess us
29:00
Speaker 1: or and her husband have been murky. They are beginning
29:05
Speaker 1: to clear up, you know. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
29:10
Speaker 1: jacksonvill State, this was an illustration I almost always used
29:17
Speaker 1: with juries. I started the case with a giant jar
29:26
Speaker 1: of water, and it had silt at the bottom, and
29:34
Speaker 1: as I began opening statements, I would shake it in
29:38
Speaker 1: front of the jury and it would become muddy, set
29:44
Speaker 1: it on my table and the case would start. At
29:48
Speaker 1: the end of the case it would be clear again,
29:54
Speaker 1: and as I argue the facts in closing statement, I
29:57
Speaker 1: would hold it back up and say, see, it's not money. Anymore.
30:02
Speaker 1: It's clear what happened. As we go through this case,
30:08
Speaker 1: we are learning more and more. Joe Scott, what do
30:12
Speaker 1: you make of these online exchanges between the trigger man
30:18
Speaker 1: and the victim's daughter, Mimi, Not to suggest she's involved
30:22
Speaker 1: in this in any way. Here's my thought, Nancy, if
30:27
Speaker 1: if there is connectivity between these two and like you said,
30:31
Speaker 1: this poor little girl who is now literally an orphan,
30:36
Speaker 1: oh is not, you know, she's not. How old is
30:40
Speaker 1: your son, Joe Scott, Well, he's just turned eighteen, Nancy,
30:44
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Mine just turned twelve. Can you
30:47
Speaker 1: imagine then growing up without either parent as a young teen. Yeah,
30:55
Speaker 1: it's hard to even comprehend that in this critical point
30:59
Speaker 1: in their life, if an individual had developed an obsession over,
31:05
Speaker 1: say this young girl, it could go to a motive.
31:10
Speaker 1: I think one of the things we need to keep
31:12
Speaker 1: in mind, Nancy, this is not some kind of a
31:15
Speaker 1: passive event their desks. They've been charged with first degree homicide,
31:21
Speaker 1: and you have the attack on two specific people. This
31:26
Speaker 1: is a brutal killing, and so that goes to you
31:29
Speaker 1: know why, you know, we keep talking about why the
31:31
Speaker 1: world would somebody target these two individuals, Well, why would
31:35
Speaker 1: you You know, it's like going in, you know and
31:37
Speaker 1: pinching the heads off of roses. You know, why why
31:39
Speaker 1: are you going to do that? To destroy something that's
31:42
Speaker 1: so beautiful like this, You have to have a specific
31:45
Speaker 1: motivation to just bring down this kind of wrath and
31:48
Speaker 1: violence on two individuals that would end their life. So,
31:52
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things we always look at
31:54
Speaker 1: as investigators who is in that circle and who are
31:58
Speaker 1: intimates in that environment? And this individual might have perceived
32:01
Speaker 1: themselves as being an intimate. Guys, take a listen to
32:05
Speaker 1: our friend Francisco Almanara wk ABC twenty seven years reporter
32:12
Speaker 1: now with eighteen year old Elijah LaRue and custody in
32:15
Speaker 1: connection with the murder. UW police are now confirming that
32:18
Speaker 1: the couple had in fact been shot or to a
32:21
Speaker 1: point where we can confidently start releasing some more information
32:25
Speaker 1: to help our community better understand what happened, and that's
32:28
Speaker 1: what we were able to do today. Mark Love Account
32:31
Speaker 1: with the UWPD says they can't say what the victims
32:34
Speaker 1: were doing in the arboretum that morning, but he did
32:37
Speaker 1: say that is where they were shot and killed. He says,
32:41
Speaker 1: investigating the department's first ever double homicide during the pandemic.
32:46
Speaker 1: Has posed many challenges, but they're making progress. It's been
32:50
Speaker 1: fantastic police work in a really, really tough time, and
32:54
Speaker 1: our folks are tired, but they're doing really well and
32:59
Speaker 1: it's it's been a remarkable week. The bodies of this
33:04
Speaker 1: professor and her husband found in a ditch by a
33:07
Speaker 1: jogger six thirty am. And remember, as Joe Scott Morgan
33:11
Speaker 1: ported out, the professor, doctor Beth Potter, was still alive
33:16
Speaker 1: at some level at that time, so that the shootings
33:19
Speaker 1: could not have been much before six thirty am. It
33:23
Speaker 1: was in the u W Arboretum. It's a research, popular
33:27
Speaker 1: recreational area with over a thousand acres of forest and prairie.
33:35
Speaker 1: Arboretum is a botanical garden devoted specifically to trees in
33:39
Speaker 1: their natural state. Why it is some sort of motive
33:45
Speaker 1: beginning to arise to Sierra Gillespie joining us WMTV, NBC
33:50
Speaker 1: fifteen Madison, Sierra. Now there is a second perp. Who's
33:56
Speaker 1: the second purp? So we know that the second person
33:59
Speaker 1: arrested in this case is eighteen year old Elijah LaRue,
34:03
Speaker 1: and we also know that he went to not u
34:06
Speaker 1: W Madison, actually Madison West High School, I should say
34:10
Speaker 1: so yesterday I was working to do a little bit
34:12
Speaker 1: more digging about this eighteen year old and I reached
34:15
Speaker 1: out to Mark Levicott, the police officer. We actually just
34:18
Speaker 1: heard from him, and he told me all we can
34:20
Speaker 1: say is there were acquaintances. But I mean, for somebody
34:25
Speaker 1: who's going to commit a brutal crime like this, officers
34:28
Speaker 1: are calling it senseless, cold blooded, heinous. I mean, they
34:32
Speaker 1: have to be more than acquaintances, you know. I'm trying
34:35
Speaker 1: to get into the psyche of what would make you
34:38
Speaker 1: commit such a crime. To doctor Angela Arnold helped me out.
34:42
Speaker 1: We know that one of the teams, eighteen years old,
34:47
Speaker 1: treated as an adult under the law, knew their daughter,
34:51
Speaker 1: who's still in high school. This means he's, you know,
34:54
Speaker 1: at least a couple of years older than her. That's
34:56
Speaker 1: the only real connection we've got but a into Sierra Gillespie.
35:01
Speaker 1: The two had exchanged at least exchanged emails online. But
35:05
Speaker 1: to shoot the parents dead, well, I know, and in
35:10
Speaker 1: such a calculatd wies it so early in the morning.
35:12
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got so many questions in my head
35:14
Speaker 1: about this. Did he perceive that the parents were somehow
35:18
Speaker 1: standing in his way of going out with their daughter.
35:22
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's so much that's going
35:25
Speaker 1: to be found out about this, don't you say? I agree,
35:28
Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, I once had a murder over ten dollars.
35:32
Speaker 1: Ten dollars a murder over ten dollars, So it could
35:38
Speaker 1: be a perceived slight. It could be any number of things.
35:42
Speaker 1: And of course, Troy Slayton, you're the defense attorney. The
35:45
Speaker 1: state doesn't have to prove motive. But reasonably speaking, when
35:49
Speaker 1: you're arguing something to a jury, if you don't present
35:52
Speaker 1: a motive, you've got a problem in your case. And
35:54
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan pointed it out that motive here is
36:00
Speaker 1: not clear. Why would two young boys murder these two
36:05
Speaker 1: pillars of the community. Something's not making sense, something doesn't
36:09
Speaker 1: smell good. And just because a young girl is calling
36:13
Speaker 1: somebody bay. Look, my twelve year old daughter writes to
36:16
Speaker 1: her friends online all the time and calls everybody bay.
36:20
Speaker 1: So that doesn't mean anything. And I think that police
36:25
Speaker 1: saying that this is targeted, although it is senseless and tragic,
36:29
Speaker 1: we don't know that these people were targeted. Six boys.
36:35
Speaker 1: You think two teas are in the arboretum at six
36:39
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning with guns. They don't rape, they
36:42
Speaker 1: don't steal, and they shoot these two and oh yeah,
36:44
Speaker 1: they happen to know their daughter, their high school age daughter.
36:48
Speaker 1: That's targeted, Troy. How can that not be anything but targeted?
36:53
Speaker 1: Something's not making sense. Yeah, you you're not making sense.
36:57
Speaker 1: Claim this is not targeted. Oh I think I just
37:00
Speaker 1: gotten mulling in the background or is that Bobby Bobby? Well,
37:04
Speaker 1: you know, it may not seem to make sense, but
37:07
Speaker 1: it certainly makes sense to the police and prosecutors. The
37:08
Speaker 1: prosecutor has charged them with first degree murder. And this
37:11
Speaker 1: was lightning investigative work. That the victims were found Tuesday morning.
37:14
Speaker 1: The first arrest was Thursday night, the second arrest was
37:17
Speaker 1: Saturday morning. Um so, and and they've come out with,
37:20
Speaker 1: you know, phrases like targeted. So they obviously know a
37:23
Speaker 1: lot more than we know. So it may not make
37:25
Speaker 1: sense to us, but it looks like it makes perfect
37:28
Speaker 1: sense to the police and the prosecutors in this case.
37:30
Speaker 1: Prosecutors are very hesitant to file serious charges like this
37:35
Speaker 1: this quickly unless they have some pretty damning evidence. In
37:39
Speaker 1: their possession time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I'm hearing
37:58
Speaker 1: in my ear. We have an update on the case,
38:02
Speaker 1: straight out to Dave Mattcrime online dot Com investigative reporter
38:08
Speaker 1: Dave what happened and to what we're finding out is
38:11
Speaker 1: that the suspect, Caldy Sandford, actually had been living with
38:18
Speaker 1: the victims and had been dating their adopted daughter, Miriam,
38:24
Speaker 1: in a relationship they've been going on for a long time.
38:27
Speaker 1: Two weeks before this shooting occurred, they were that Potter
38:35
Speaker 1: moved her daughter and Sanford out of the house because
38:40
Speaker 1: they refused to distance themselves socially. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,
38:45
Speaker 1: so you're telling me doctor Potter moved her daughter, Mimi,
38:51
Speaker 1: Miriam and her I guess they'd been letting Carrie Sandford,
38:56
Speaker 1: now charged in their murders, eighteen year old football star
39:01
Speaker 1: Carrie Sandford, who goes to high school with the daughter Mimi,
39:04
Speaker 1: the adopted daughter Mimi. They're letting him live in the
39:07
Speaker 1: home with Mimi. And it's my understanding that the doctor,
39:15
Speaker 1: doctor Beth Potter, had some immune issue and she could
39:19
Speaker 1: not be close to people. It's my understanding, day Mac,
39:24
Speaker 1: she felt that her daughter Mimi and her living teen lover.
39:29
Speaker 1: We're not respecting her and we're not keeping the social
39:34
Speaker 1: distance in the time of COVID nineteen. So she moves
39:37
Speaker 1: them into an airbnb. She doesn't throw them out on
39:40
Speaker 1: the street. She moves them into an apartment airbnb not
39:44
Speaker 1: far from home. Is that right, Dave mac Absolutely correct, Nancy.
39:48
Speaker 1: And according to one of the individuals that Beth Potter
39:52
Speaker 1: worked with at the University lg is how she's labeled
39:55
Speaker 1: in the documents that a conversation and that said that
39:59
Speaker 1: her daughter Miriam, that they wouldn't social distance. They stayed
40:02
Speaker 1: in the room all day her in Sanford, ordering food,
40:05
Speaker 1: but then they would leave the house and go out
40:08
Speaker 1: and just ramble around and then come back home. And
40:10
Speaker 1: we're just being totally disrespectful of the rules that him
40:13
Speaker 1: and laid down because of as you mentioned, Beth Potter,
40:17
Speaker 1: doctor Potter's immune system is also we know that her husband,
40:21
Speaker 1: the husband Robin, had self quarantined so he would not
40:27
Speaker 1: hurt his wife, so he would not expose her to
40:30
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen potentially. And then the daughter Mimi allegedly just
40:36
Speaker 1: stays hold up in her bedroom all day where their
40:38
Speaker 1: football star boyfriend ordering takeout and watching TV and whatever
40:44
Speaker 1: else they're doing alone in the bedroom. So she finally
40:47
Speaker 1: gets tired of them breathing all over her, not respecting
40:51
Speaker 1: the rules, and then shells out for them to be
40:53
Speaker 1: in an airbnb. She pays for their place. What can
40:57
Speaker 1: you tell me, Dave Mack about stations alleged conversations coming
41:02
Speaker 1: to light about how the daughter, Mimi, was bragging that
41:06
Speaker 1: her parents were rich and they had a lot of bands,
41:08
Speaker 1: which is thousands of dollars. Well, early in the month
41:11
Speaker 1: of March, a friend of there before school was suspended,
41:15
Speaker 1: a friend overheard Miriam and Sandford talking about the need
41:20
Speaker 1: for money, and Miriam flat I said, hey, my folks
41:22
Speaker 1: are rich. They got bands, referring to the thousands of cash.
41:26
Speaker 1: And this was over her bragging about the money they had.
41:29
Speaker 1: And at the time, Sandford had just moved in with
41:33
Speaker 1: Miriam and her folks, So this is a couple of
41:35
Speaker 1: weeks before they were forced to move out, so they
41:38
Speaker 1: were living together in this very wealthy situation. Yeah, thanks
41:42
Speaker 1: to the mother and the father's hard work working their
41:46
Speaker 1: fingers to the bone. We are also learning right now.
41:49
Speaker 1: According to an unnamed source, a detective stating that I
41:56
Speaker 1: almost hate to say it. The husband, Robin, was face
42:00
Speaker 1: down with the wound to his head, wearing only his underwear.
42:04
Speaker 1: There were several three fifty seven cig shellcasings in the
42:07
Speaker 1: area around the male victim. The female victim had been
42:11
Speaker 1: located blood spatter and pooling, indicating the victims haven't shot
42:16
Speaker 1: there at the arboretum. But she had on her pj's
42:21
Speaker 1: and socks. He had on underwear. So it sounds to
42:25
Speaker 1: me that these two teens, one the teen lover of
42:31
Speaker 1: the dead couple's daughter, had forced them out of their home.
42:35
Speaker 1: I guess while they were sleeping, because I remember the
42:38
Speaker 1: six thirty in the morning. I'm also learning and correct
42:41
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, Dave, because there's a lot of
42:43
Speaker 1: information coming out right now that JAG not only found them,
42:48
Speaker 1: but they heard some shots after six am in the morning,
42:53
Speaker 1: then the bodies were found. Is that right? Not exactly, Nancy.
42:58
Speaker 1: What we've been told is that they have tracked the
43:02
Speaker 1: cell phone of one of these suspects near the home
43:08
Speaker 1: of Beth Potter on the night on the thirtieth. Okay, now,
43:13
Speaker 1: at about eleven o'clock eleven o two, an ear witness
43:19
Speaker 1: around the arboretum heard two gunshots at eleven oh two,
43:23
Speaker 1: and then four more four to five more gunshots coming
43:28
Speaker 1: immediately after that, a total of six or seven shots
43:31
Speaker 1: fired a little after eleven o'clock. Thank you. So the
43:35
Speaker 1: shots were at eleven o'clock the night before. They must
43:39
Speaker 1: have aroused to them out of bed. She's got on
43:42
Speaker 1: her pj's, he has on underwear, and then the bodies
43:45
Speaker 1: are found. Thank you. That's very significant, very significant, your correction,
43:51
Speaker 1: Dave Mack, because the shootings were we think that night
43:55
Speaker 1: around eleven. Isn't it true that the boyfriend and his buddy,
44:00
Speaker 1: one of them show up at a friend's house excited
44:03
Speaker 1: and agitated and upset in very concern that the wife,
44:09
Speaker 1: the mom, had been rushed to the hospital and was
44:13
Speaker 1: still alive. Absolutely, Nancy. The word that we've gotten is
44:18
Speaker 1: that when they were agitated and excited, and then finding
44:22
Speaker 1: out in the news that doctor Beth Potter had said,
44:25
Speaker 1: of course they weren't named at the time, but that
44:27
Speaker 1: the woman had survived the initial shooting, Sanford apparently was
44:33
Speaker 1: heard saying, I know I shot him, you know, I
44:36
Speaker 1: know I took them, and you know there were two
44:39
Speaker 1: shots in Beth catter one in Robin to the just
44:43
Speaker 1: above the ear on the left side of his head.
44:45
Speaker 1: She was shot in the head and in the arm,
44:48
Speaker 1: and she was when they discovered her, she was about
44:52
Speaker 1: thirty degrees. He say, she was wearing pajamas and somebody
44:55
Speaker 1: was down to thirty degrees. Yes, correct. And about Mimi Miriam,
45:03
Speaker 1: the daughter Nancy, this is the part that bothers me.
45:06
Speaker 1: She hasn't in charge yet, but you know, she actually
45:09
Speaker 1: alibied Sanford. She said told the police that they were
45:13
Speaker 1: at their airbnb the entire night of the thirtieth and
45:16
Speaker 1: the thirty version that they did not leave, didn't she
45:19
Speaker 1: text somebody about she was, you know, two rooms over
45:24
Speaker 1: from them, and they had gotten back. We know that
45:28
Speaker 1: she was texting Sandford when she told the police that
45:32
Speaker 1: they were together at that airbnb, you know, and she
45:36
Speaker 1: claimed that they had the text messages back and forth
45:39
Speaker 1: where you know, she was trying to find out what
45:40
Speaker 1: was going on. And you know, police are like, well,
45:42
Speaker 1: if you guys are vote here together at the same time,
45:44
Speaker 1: why are you texting him? You know, So we know
45:47
Speaker 1: that she's texting him while this is going on, while
45:50
Speaker 1: she claims they're in that Airbnb together. We understand that
45:55
Speaker 1: after the two Sandford and LaRue had come back to
45:59
Speaker 1: the apartment where the daughter Miriam known as Mimi, was,
46:03
Speaker 1: she texted and unidentified friends saying, quote, I want to cry,
46:09
Speaker 1: but I'm also in an apartment with them and it's
46:12
Speaker 1: literally two and a half rooms, so that's fun. But
46:16
Speaker 1: they come back. So we know that she alibied him
46:21
Speaker 1: knowing that he was gone. We know that much right now.
46:26
Speaker 1: As of right now, the daughter Miriam has not been charged.
46:32
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfools. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing
46:37
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,