Latest / Sports In America with David Greene / Oksana Masters Went From Chornobyl to the Paralympic Podium
Transcript
- DAVID GREENE, HOST: All right, I wanna start this week with a major confession and I'm confessing it to Hannah Keyser who's a sports writer for CNN. I'm a lifelong Pittsburgh Pirates fan. I literally, even in seasons like this when they don't make the playoffs, I'm up late watching on my app games that they lose. And now it's playoff time and I have been rocking this recently. HANNAH KEYSER: (Gasps) Oh, wow. DG: It's a really stylish Dodgers hat. I live in Los Angeles. I am not a Dodgers fan through and through, but I'm kind of excited about them. And Hannah, you co-founded, I believe, a Substack called "Bandwagon." HK: Yes, in fact, that's what my necklace says. So there we go. We each have a piece of gear to show off. My necklace says "Bandwagon." DG: Wow. Okay, so talk to me about these bandwagon in sports is usually not a good thing. Bandwagon makes you feel like I should not be wearing this hat and not be rooting for the Dodgers just during playoff time. Like it's a bad word. HK: I wanted to lean into the idea that like, it's okay to expect your sports viewing experience to be enjoyable and to demand that your team give you a reason to root for them or else you'll find a different team to sort of root for. I wanted it to sort be provocative with the name calling it "Bandwagon" about this idea of kind of like gatekeeping around fandom and especially sports fandom and say like it should serve you. It should serve whatever purpose you have. I think it's completely fine to say like, hey, I gave you guys six months, you didn't give me October baseball, I would like to see what this Dodgers team can do. And if they make history three-peat you, you're going to enjoy it. That's great. That what sports should be. I've kind of had this radical reimagining of sports fandom recently where I've been like, It's not your job to care about how much the Lakers' sell for or the contract negotiations, which I'm sure we'll get into, it's your job as a fan to find some way to feel something bigger than yourself. And if the way you find to access that is by rooting for a team that's, you know, out to set history with this third World Series in a row, that's great. That's totally valid. That is a valid fan viewing experience. I absolve you of your confession. (Laughs) DG: Okay, I appreciate that, but I also want to tell everyone in Pittsburgh and around the world, I am still as diehard a Pirates fan as I will ever be. This is like a temporary thing. And I think some of it comes from living in LA and just seeing, like going to a Dodgers game and seeing people who live in my city just being that excited. And you kind of just ride that wave a little bit. HK: I live in New York and I covered my first ever NBA Finals this year, the Knicks Finals run and I had a beautiful time getting swept up in that. And I think it's totally valid also to have a distinct bandwagon experience of getting swept up, which is different from the experience of lifelong Knicks fans who are feeling the catharsis of you know, never having seen a championship. And if the Pirates ever do pull it off, you will feel something different when they are in the World Series than watching the Dodgers in the World Series. But both of those feelings are interesting and valid fan experiences. DG: Yeah, I love that. The other thing that gives me hope being a Pirates fan, the Chicago White Sox, I mean, their turnaround this year from just recently losing more games than like any team has ever lost in the history of baseball or something close to that, to being on a playoff run, that's the kind of thing that gives a Pittsburgh Pirate fan hope. But can you talk about this kind of White Sox turnaround and what's been happening on the South Side of Chicago? HK: Yeah, although that turnaround was coupled with some leadership change. DG: Yeah, which would be great in Pittsburgh. Wouldn't that be nice? Finally acknowledging failure. HK: Well, first of all, the White Sox have divine intervention on behalf of the Pope, so if the Pirates could arrange that. I don't know if the Pirates could find a different spiritual leader. DG: I mean, the Pope, the pope is from Chicago, so I feel like he saves that just for his favorite city, I'm assuming, but hey, I'll take it if he would like to spread the love. HK: Yes, a big part of the White Sox success this year has been Munetaka Murakami, this Japanese slugger who they signed. And I think, first of all, he's been incredibly charming and fun in the post-game celebration interviews that he's done when the White Sox have clinched it when they've advanced. But a lot of teams are looking at this and saying, like, why didn't we sign him? There's a broader story, I think in the Murakami's success, which is more and more organizations are scouting Japan and NPB. But. There was historically this bias against hitters coming out of the NPB that they couldn't hit velocity, you know, game speed in Major League Baseball. And so it's been really incredible to see what Murakami's been able to do coming over and being this incredible power bat in the heart of the White Sox lineup. They did this on purpose. The White Sox rebuild is the result of them really overhauling, right, sort of from the front office on down. Chris Getz kind of modernizing that front office. Really what you're seeing in Chicago is, yeah, like a modernization of a baseball team that's kind of like learning to keep up, but then also right, getting this like, kind of not zagging when everyone is zigging, but they signed Murakami when anyone could have, and now they're kind of reaping the benefits of being willing to go out on that limb with this Japanese slugger and having him really be able to make that transition really smoothly. DG: You did a piece about the Bronx Bombers, saying that, "The Yankees, without Aaron Judge, showed why this might be their best chance to win with him." Which is sort of a crazy thing to hear, because you think about Aaron Judge's bat as being the primary reason the Yankee's have been competitive, but they haven't won a World Series in a really long time. So what exactly do you mean by his absence might have been a good thing for this team? HK: Yeah, so I know that this is going to drop, they could have already, we saw them get on nearly no hit by the Rays over the weekend, and they have another game against the Rays tonight. So we'll see. We'll see! DG: And we should tell our listeners, the same should be for the White Sox. Like, I mean, the White Sox, their run was amazing, even if they are now already out by the time you are listening to the show and, and the Yankees, yeah, that their future is uncertain in these playoffs, but still I think your argument holds. HK: Yeah, I wrote that in response to the Wild Card Series, where they, oh my gosh, an incredibly definitive sweep of the Boston Red Sox, where, first of all, the pitching was phenomenal. The big thing about this Yankees team is they have incredible pitching. We are talking to each other on Monday. We're gonna see Cam Schlittler, who is going to be the Cy Young Award winner, go against the Rays tonight. This kid is incredible. He's pitching in his first full season. He's not technically a rookie because he pitched too much last year, but this is his first, full major league season, and he loves to antagonize the opposing team, the opposing fan base. He loves especially doing it with the Boston Red Sox where he grew up. And they have just an all around phenomenal pitching staff which that's how they survived the regular season without Judge because Judge was hurt for most of the regular seasons and their offense without him really plummeted and they survived on pitching, which you can do. And pitching is incredibly important in the post season especially because baseball really changes regular season to post season. There's more off days in the postseason. You get travel days, you get days in between series if you sweep and those days off allow you and encourage teams to use their best pitchers in really creative ways. They'll use guys on short rest. And so that Yankees pitching is really gonna carry them hopefully, you know, Yankee's fans really deep into October because like three, four great starters, that's what basically like, that's a whole pitching staff come October. But beyond that, what we saw in this Wild Card Series was, recent historically, the Yankees have been kind of Judge or bust because they have really been built on this power model. They also have Giancarlo Stanton, who's always hurt, but also an incredible power bat. And then this year they have Spencer Jones and George Lombard Jr. and Jazz Chisholm, these kind of younger guys in the Wild Card Series, we saw them running a lot on the bases, kind of putting pressure on the opposing team in these sort of more athletic ways. And then they have Ben Rice, who is this like 12th round draft pick turned Home Run Derby participant because suddenly he's like, who needs Aaron Judge? You have this Ivy League Dartmouth grad Ben Rice smacking home runs. So the Yankees just look like a much more complete team. Again, they nearly got no hit by Drew Rasmussen the other night on the Rays. DG: But learning to hone other things like on the team when you don't have to rely just on one person too. HK: And the pitching, you cannot sort of take away from them. Like even if the other bats go cold, they lost to the Rays, 1-0, but one run is pretty good. Like giving up only one run, that gives your team a real chance. So I think it's the pitching for the Yankees that really makes it feel like, okay, maybe they can survive until they get Aaron Judge back. And then Aaron Judge can still change a game with one swing, even if he doesn't do it until the second half of the month. DG: The labor contract dispute money in baseball that that that is sort of looming. It's one of the reasons that I feel even more guilty about ever putting on a Dodgers hat because you know, teams like the Pirates can't be competitive, one would argue when there are teams like the Dodgers that can just buy championship rosters year in and year out. Like it's it's there's just no equity and small market teams get hurt the ones that figure out a way to win notwithstanding. Thank you so much Brewers for making it seem like you can do it even without a lot of money. All that said, set up this moment for us in baseball because we're going into an off season where there could be a lot of fighting and maybe a delay in next season, right? HK: Yeah, the stakes of this current, the CBA negotiation that we're going to have this off season are very, very high. It could fundamentally reshape the economics of the sport and it could cost us some amount of gains next season. So the current collective bargaining agreement is set to expire December 1st. We are all most certainly assured a lockout at that point. So the owners will lock out the players. They always do this now. They do it in the off season. The CBA intentionally expires in the off season, so that way owners can do a lock out and you can hopefully kind of put some pressure on each other from a labor negotiation standpoint before games are at stake. This, what makes this negotiation different is that the owners have formally proposed a salary cap, which is something they haven't done since '94. And they want a salary cap. They've always wanted a salary gap because it's good for cost control. So I think reasonable fans can differ and disagree. And it's totally, there are, I could see it both ways as to whether or not a salary cap would fix the payroll disparity. Let's try to deal in absolutes. Is there payroll disparity in baseball? Absolutely. DG: Yes! HK: Without the salary cap, The result is we just have payroll disparity. The Dodgers spend significantly more than the Pirates or the Brewers or the Rays. Whether that payroll disparity is a true unfairness, the Brewer's make a good counter argument. They won over 100 games. They were the only team to win over 100 game this year. However, the Dodgers have won two World Series in a row and they're looking pretty good this year, hence the fan bandwagoning, the hat. If the Dodgers win, MLB will point to that as evidence of the fact that small market teams can't win, the Dodger's spending has just gotten so great. I personally feel that the Dodges are such an extreme that they're in some ways an outlier. And in other ways, that outlier justifies the concern that one team could become so extreme. I think there are a lot of ways in which the Dodgers are exceptions. It's not quite as simple as like, they are rich, everyone else is poor, they win, everybody else loses. But I can see how, to me, a salary cap feels like a very blunt instrument solution to a very nuanced problem. But that isn't to say it wouldn't be a solution. It would just be a very blunt solution. And one that would suppress labor wages, which sort of ideologically I don't love. So all of that, to say that is going to get hashed out this off season, regardless of what happens in this postseason. But I think baseball fans know that what happens in this postseason, especially with teams like the Dodgers and the Brewers, both being in the postseason. What happens in his postseason is gonna become a really important sort of rhetorical part of how all that plays out. DG: You see my master plan, right? I pull for the Dodgers. I get the Dodger's to win a third World Series. And I make the argument that small market teams are being unfairly treated. And it's time for change to help my Pirates. HK: Boom, Pirates benefit. DG: Yeah. That's the lesson here. Hannah Keyser, I'd love to have you back. She's a sports writer for CNN, and we're talking baseball, and it'd be great to have back on the show. Thanks for doing this. HK: Of course, always happy to talk baseball. DG: And come up next on Sports in America, we have an interview with an extraordinary athlete, Ukrainian born, fighting unimaginable challenges to become one of the greatest Paralympians in history. That's coming up next, on Sports In America. \[MIDROLL\] DG: Some people might have thought Oksana Master's fate was sealed before she was even born, but those people didn't really know Oksana Sasters. \[MUSIC\] DG: You've maybe heard of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster when an explosion at a nuclear power plant in Ukraine released tons of radioactive material into the immediate environment. Two workers at the facility died right away. Dozens more people died in the coming weeks and many, many more were sickened and had to evacuate their homes permanently. \[HORN BLARING\] NEWSCAST: The danger may be escalating. It's an atomic fire and the Soviets can't contain it. Thousands may already have died or been seriously contaminated. DG: That event happened three years before Oksana Masters was born and it would come to define her life. OKSANA MASTERS: What I think a lot of people don't realize is the radiation level keeps rising, rising, and rising. And my birth parents, when I was in the developing stages, were on vacation, and they were in that wider spread of where Chernobyl was affected. DG: Like millions of others, Oksana's birth mother was exposed to radiation, and Oksana was born with a handful of permanent birth defects that required costly medical care. Her parents were left with little choice but to place her up for adoption. She was moved from orphanage to orphanage until, at seven years old, Oksana was adopted by a woman in the United States. Oksana's mother put her into adaptive sports, and she went on to become a multi-sport Paralympic athlete. Now 37 years old, she is the proud owner of a whopping 24 Olympic medals in four different sports, rowing, skiing, cycling, and the biathlon. OM: I've always said that if we're competing in sports, it's been a way for me to scream silently. DG: Sports helped Oksana heal from what now feels like a past life, but something still nags at her. OM: I always questioned, why did I make it out of Ukraine? Not that it was, I was in war and combat, but I still had a form of survivor's guilt. DG: Oksana Masters tells her extraordinary life story today on Sports in America. I don't know if this is my laptop. I don't know if you can see this. I have Ukraine stuff literally all over the place. OM: I love it! Oh my gosh! DG: I am distantly half-Ukrainian, half of my family is from Lviv and all over the West. I've also been there probably a dozen or a dozen and a half times as a journalist. OM: Oh my gosh. DG: So your story is inspiring as it is, but you know, it's, there's a lot of personal stuff there too. So I just, I'm grateful to be able to meet you. OM: Oh, my God. Well, likewise, and thank you so much for sharing all the stories and going there. And it's exciting to talk to a fellow, even half or not, like Ukrainian. DG: (Laughs) Yeah, there's something there. I was based in Moscow as a public radio reporter for three years, and whenever my wife and I would fly to Kiev or to Lviv, I don't know, it felt, OM: Just different. DG: It felt like home. Yeah, it was really different. I don't know how to describe it. Just the food, the culture, the hospitality, the vibe, the people, it just felt like a connection. OM: Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like I've always, well, I mean, being born there and everything, regardless of the experiences, good or bad, it still always feels like home. DG: So how close to Chernobyl was your family when you were born? OM: So my family actually didn't live in Chernobyl. They were traveling on vacation. The leak happened about three year, '86, about three, four years before I was born. What I think a lot of people don't realize is the radiation level keeps rising, rising and rising. It's not like it happens. It goes in the ground and can affect a lot of the crops and the area and the air and the water and everything for years later and my birth parents when I was in the developing stages were on vacation and that was the link to that because there was like a big chunk of, I guess that vacation time, they were in that wider spread of where Chernobyl was affected. DG: What is your connection to that event now in 2026, would you say? Obviously, it's part of your narrative and you get asked about it all the time, but what do you think about when you hear that word Chernobyl? OM: Oh, I mean that word Chernobyl, like I was a child, I just didn't know. The wild thing is when I came to America, and actually when I was in Ukraine in the orphanages, in all the western part of Ukraine, and I traveled different orphanages too, there were frequent radiation leaks. I remember that, where we would have to board up, close out the door, couldn't go outside, that I was aware. So when I learned that at the timing of my birth and everything, it was related to Chernobyl because of just all these other variables. That oh, so this thing why we boarded up is the reason what caused all of my birth defects internally and externally what people see visibly. And now I think it's something I was always told but I've had the ability to now learn and educate myself more and as the public's been educated it's why else I think how many like this much of the new generation isn't aware of what Chernobyl is and I know there's some stories coming out. And I think a lot of people learned and I learned a lot from a documentary and the TV show that was in Chernobyl on HBO. And I was glued to that, and everyone was like, oh my gosh, now I understand. And still now I'm having these surprise things that keep happening, health things that put me in the hospital, doctors, and it's all linked to just things that present themselves later. And I think that's the thing is, wow, I'm still learning and dealing with new effects of something that is still a thing, which is wild to me to think. It's not just amputation, move on with your life kind of thing. DG: Before we really dig into your story, I think, especially since we talk about sports so much on our show, one of the things that you've said in the past that just stays with me is that being an elite athlete gives you the chance to scream in a way that you need, but that you haven't had the chance to do in your life. Can you say more about that? What is that scream? OM: Yeah, I think it's like for some people, it's screaming in the pillow and screaming literally out loud when they're outside in a forest and can just let all that frustration, anger, anxiety, fears, all these things, emotions, they're so overwhelming. And for me, yes, I've always said that competing in sports has been a way for me to scream silently. Every time I feel that heavy pull on the oars is where it first was that place was born, where I just could release the tension. It was my physical way to scream without screaming. Because I was my upbringing and I got into sports at a time around 14, 15, where a lot of memories from what I suppressed and denied in the orphanages. I was just told I was gonna have to lose my second leg above the knee now. And I felt very out of control, very scared and just not in control of my own body and my own life. A lot of decisions were made for me and that was that very healthy positive outlet for me was that sports to scream through release of competition. DG: Do you mind talking a little bit about the orphanages in your early years? OM: Yeah, so I lived in three different orphanages. I was put up for adoption right away. And I was born with birth defects and I was born with my legs. I was born with my hands all webbed. I didn't have five fingers or a thumb. It was all five fingers and they were all webbed. I had six toes. They were webbed as well. So I should have, that should have been my sign of why did I get into swimming really? Because everything was just going for me there. And just a lot of visible differences that I was put up right for adoption because where I was born in Ukraine, my parents didn't have the resources or the money to support all the medical care that I would need. And I don't know if a lot of people realize, unlike in the U.S., foster care really is the main orphanages are not a thing anymore, it's mainly foster care now. But in Ukraine and a lot of places in Eastern Europe there's government-ran orphanages, and then there are independent private orphanages within the communities of themselves. So I lived in, I had an experience of both. The government ones are the ones where there's like a lot of widespread corruption that happens that people just aren't aware of. The last orphanage I was in was an institution. It was, over 300 kids were there. Part of them were, had disabilities. Some of, majority of them didn't. And it was not a boarding school like people think. There were seven real orphans that didn't have families, and there were all the other kids had families, but they paid the government basically room and board for those kids. And it was split into a little two separate sections of that. That orphanage I experienced, and I say that orphanage because it was the last one, it's the one that I have the biggest memories from. And you know, I had good memories, but I also had darker memories. I was malnourished, severely malnourished and considered failure to thrive when my mom adopted me because being adopted at seven and a half years old, I was 36 or 36 inches tall and weighed 34 pounds. And that is a healthy three year old. Like I have a niece or nephew now and they're like, oh my gosh, he's not even three. And that's the weight— he's so close to the weight that I came and I was almost turning eight. There was a lot of punishments and abuse and a lot of psychological, physical, sexual abuse and just not a lot of treatment, well treatment and just isolation and it was so, it wasn't the best way to grow up, but it was the only thing I knew and it became my normal. DG: That sounds incredibly painful to go through. OM: I didn't know any different and I didn't know any better, that there was better. Pain when you've experienced it for so long, it becomes normal that you just become immune to it and don't even know to recognize that was pain or I don't feel safe, I'm not safe, I'm seeing a lot of my friends disappear and stuff and it wasn't until I came to America and had safety, had my own bed, had toys, that I realized. Wait a minute, so that wasn't normal. That's where the pain kind of started was once I had it. DG: Hmm Fortunately for Oksana, the pain of living in an orphanage would soon be behind her. A woman from the United States was looking to adopt a child. And when she saw a picture of Oksana, their connection was instant and enduring. The story of you meeting your mother sounds extraordinary. \[MUSIC\] DG: You were in touch with her before even meeting her in person, right? She kind of discovered you from afar. OM: So she saw a picture of me and she wanted to adopt me before my fifth birthday. That's when she found out about me. And there was a lot of political things happening. Ukraine closed foreign adoption. America closed foreign adoptions as well. My mom tried to send me birthday gifts. The orphanage and the director of the orphanage would just take them away. I never even saw them. Didn't know she even sent that. DG: Awe, that's so sad. OM: But what I did get was a picture of her because she had to submit a passport, it was her passport picture and I looked at that picture whenever the director of the orphanage would let me, for two years. I didn't know why she wasn't coming to get me because I knew what happens often times is the only time we get food is when families do come and potentially choose to adopt a child. And so of course then an act comes on where they put clothes on us, we get food for the first time. DG: Oh, they're making things look like they're treating you well just when visitors are there putting on a show. OM: Yeah, and so the little girl's survival, I learned to smile and put on that show because that was the only time I would ever get food is in those situations, and which was really rare. But being a girl with a disability, nobody really wanted me, and I was getting older and older and order, and nobody wants to adopt older children as well. And so I've remembered two specific family members that said, we are gonna come back and adopt you. We're gonna be your new home and your family, and mom and dad, but never come back. And at six you start to realize, you're forming and you know, you feel these things. And so when I was told about my mom and there's gonna be a new woman that's gonna come get me, and because I do wanna look at a picture, I felt it was different. There's something different about this moment because I never got, I was never asked, do you wanna look a picture? And long story short, I looked at her picture every single day, as often as the director would let me, as long as I was a good girl, because when I was bad, he would say, well, this is why she's not coming, because you're a bad girl and she sees it and she doesn't want a bad girl. She didn't know at that time, I knew of her and was looking at her pictures. And she's been fighting for me for those two years, even though they said, you can go to Russia and you can adopt a baby, who would she wanted to adopt from the start. And you can have this baby within a month, two months. And she never gave up on me. She said, no, this is my daughter. I'm going to wait. Whenever I can, I'm gonna come get her. DG: Wow. That's extraordinary. OM: And I think that's the power of just who my mom is because it is, she connected through a picture, a black and white picture of me, and it would have been easy to walk away and say, yes, I want my family sooner than not knowing when if possible. And then, so finally that moment comes when she's supposed to come adopt me and they wake me up and with all these other kids around and they say, Oksana, do you know who this is? And in Ukrainian, I say, "I know you, you're my mom." It's just wild. Where my life is now to look back and think about that moment, because it's so vivid in my mind. DG: I can't even feel like I can imagine the emotions of a day like that. OM: And what she didn't know in that moment is that moment where I met her and she came, she saved my life. DG: What are your first memories of arriving in the United States with her? OM: My first memories were I was really shocked to learn she not only had a car but could drive. DG: Hm. Why is that? OM: So where the orphanage I was in and it was such a small, small remote village, we had no cars. There was horse and wagons that were, that's how we were transported to summer camps and stuff. So it was just the idea of a car was like, oh my gosh, what? Like you see it in movies, but to know it's real and I now have a mom that has a car and I don't know. DG: Got a family car OM: Yeah, and I don't know why the idea of, because I remember when the caretakers were watching TV, they'd close the door and lock it behind us in our room, but you could see through a keyhole of the room, the flash was on the TV, and so you could some of the TVs and the cars, and so it was just a weird concept to me then. \[MUSIC\] DG: This is Sports in America and stay with us. We're gonna have more from a Paralympic legend who has 24 medals, Oksana Masters. That's coming up next. \[MIDROLL\] DG: Welcome back to Sports in America and let's get right back to our conversation with four-sport Paralympian Oksana Masters. When did sports enter your life? OM: Oh, I like to think sports honestly have always been part of my life because I was always active. I was always climbing on bookcases and just always active child and so I knew like athletically I just wanted to move. My mom put me when I was in Buffalo, New York, when I first adopted. So she put me into ice skating. That was the first time and she just really did that. Put me into ice skating and then we moved to Louisville, Kentucky. Did horseback riding, which a lot of people don't know, and then did rowing. And for her, it wasn't about putting me into sports to be an incredible athlete because she saw something in me. I definitely didn't see anything in me, didn't know what an athlete was. So it was really around 13, where I kind of started being more consistent and then understood sports, and rowing for me was that first sport that kind of. I fell in love with and stuck with. \[MUSIC\] DG: I know you've said before that sports helped you discover what your body could do rather than what you lacked. Is there a moment or time when you really felt a connection to that? OM: Yeah, I think it was on the Ohio River in Louisville, Kentucky, the rowing club. And for me, like what I loved about rowing and I was at 13, you're very opinionated. I mean, I was really opinionated as a seven year old, too. And 13, you're very opinionated and very self-conscious of your body and what's different about you, and you're focusing on all the negatives. Everyone's pointing out all the negatives for you, too, of what you can't do. And why you can't do that. And what I loved about rowing was the way you propel the boat was the exact same way. If you look at it, I hate using the word able-bodied, but if you look an able-bodies rower, normal slide seat, they're propelling their boat through the oars and what you're doing. And for me, that's what I realized when I started to row alongside. It wasn't just adapted, it was also able-bodied rowing and I was moving just as fast as some of the boats and doing the same thing and out there and that kind of through the years and evolution of starting rowing as a recreational fun thing transitioning to more competition and fighting my way into having para events and that as I continued on my Paralympic journey and sporting journey and making Team USA, that's kind of where I started to realize that I do belong here. I am just as powerful. It just looks different. It only looks different. And I—that kind of helped me start to love more what I saw in the mirror too, because I really didn't love my body. I really didn't see myself as strong or capable or powerful or athletic whatsoever. And that was kind of, I guess sports for me was that, it was that pathway and that bridge to learn how to love all of me, not just the parts I pick and choose. DG: At 13 years old, Oksana found something in rowing that she had never truly felt before, power and pride in her own body. So she kept competing. She started training with an Olympic rowing coach who helped her qualify for the 2012 Paralympics in London. You know, I think about you, that evolution and getting to a place where it's like, I belong here. Do you, how much work do you think there's left to do to convince the rest of the world that like, what do we still not understand about Paralympians about adaptive sports? OM: Oh my gosh, so much. There's so much that society as a whole, I think we have grown so much as well, especially in the U.S., the way we view Paralympians and Paralymbic athletes and the Paralymyics, especially when I got into it in 2012 to where it is now. But there's still such big gaps. And I think the biggest one is people do not see it as an equal competition, as elite level competition as the Olympics, as NBA, as NFL, and the same level of respect in the competition. I think what is happening in the narrative of how people are sharing the stories is they're focusing on the disability and then, okay, so this happened to you and now you shifted, found sports, and now, you become this, but they're not explaining the in-between of what actually happened also and the hard work that it took. When I was watching the Olympics, it's most recently the Winter Paralympics and Olympics, the competition and the narration wasn't about the sport. It wasn't about what's happening on the field of play. It was where this athlete came from and how they're just, every single athlete here is just so determined and you don't hear that same dialog on the Olympic side at all. And I think that is a big disconnect that still exists, but at the same time. It has grown so much because the opportunity for partnerships and partnering with brands was non-existent. I was living out of a car paying to be an athlete to now seeing more and more Paralympic athletes are actually having the ability to get partnership and sponsorship and that I think slowly in the way that we're becoming more visible on that is helping change the mindset, but I think conversations like you're having with me is the true thing that can elevate the mindset. DG: Did you say you were living out of a car in kind of the early Paralympian days? What was happening, what was going on then? OM: So it was after London was my first Paralympic Games and then training for the 2014 Sochi Winter Games. And we were, I was in Winter Park, Colorado. I've asked my mom, I mean, she took out of her, she'd probably killed me for saying all this, but like she took it out of our retirement to help me get to London, to help me become a rower and an athlete. And I think a lot of people don't realize is how much our parents do and our support systems do to help us live our dreams and what my mom did for me. DG: Okay, let's back up for just a second. What Oksana is talking about right now, the cost of competing as a Paralympian, it's actually shockingly high. A 2024 report found that once you factor in expenses like travel, equipment, and renting practice space, getting to compete on the Olympic level costs an athlete an average of $12,000. Paralympians usually have to add in the cost of specialized equipment, making the number skyrocket to $100,000, and historically Paralympians have been less likely than Olympians to be able to cover those costs with brand deals or sponsorships. That's the situation Oksana found herself in during her first few times competing in these games. OM: When I qualified for Sochi, I was living in a, my mom was helping me with an Airbnb that I had. I misjudged the amount. We'd gotten into a fight right before that week of finances and I did not have the last week of money to pay for that portion. And so what I ended up doing was in that parking lot of that place, it was a complex, like a condo like place. I found the brightest lamp and slept under that behind my, behind the driver's side. And at that time I had this car that it was beat up, didn't have the sealant around, so we felt the draft entirely. And Winter Park, Colorado is really, really cold. And I found out because of my survival techniques of how to make food last longer from when I was a little girl, that if I rolled this ball of spinach and chew so slowly that you'll get fuller longer. And that's where, and then in that moment, I was like, wow, I'm so lucky. I've been here before. I know how to survive through just this thing and make this last. Thankfully, I had a DVD thing that came down on the cart. And so I just watched Shrek over and over and over. (Laughs) DG: (Laughs) Why was Shrek the choice? OM: I don't- I love Donkey from Shrek. DONKEY FROM SHREK: Can I stay with you? Please. OM: It's the childhood thing, like when I was going through my amputations and was in trainers for months and months and month. It was kind of that familiarity. I'm that athlete also when I, and so because it's so familiar and safe and just I can watch it for the 3,000th time and still laugh at the same spots as if I'm watching it for first time and it just made it feel lighter and happy and I wasn't focused on that. And I'm a child at heart, really, I'm 36, but I think I'm stuck at a nine-year-old. (Laughs) DG: When Oksana took home a bronze medal at the 2012 Paralympics in London, that was just the start of her athletic journey. \[MUSIC\] DG: And from there, Oksana journey gets kind of crazy. So please bear with me here. This is when Oksana decided to take her athletic skill to another level. She tried out cross-country skiing and within 14 months managed to qualify for all skiing events at the 2014 Paralypmics in Sochi, Russia, including the biathlon, which is a combination of cross-country skiing and shooting a rifle. She took home a silver and bronze medal. BROADCASTER: Yeah, and Oksana Masters is kind of one of those champion athletes. She sniffs out what it takes to win. DG: Come 2018 in Pyeongchang, Oksana was still skiing and she earned five more medals, two gold, two silver, and one bronze. BROADCASTER: Looks like she'll add another medal to her list. DG: Oksana also tried out adaptive cycling, and by the time the Tokyo Paralympics rolled around in 2021, she was good enough to take home two gold medals in her new sport. BROADCASTER: American multi-sport superstar Oksana Masters. Earlier tonight, she won her ninth career Paralympic medal and her first summer Paralympic gold medal. There's her mom. Those two are so close. She dominated the women's H4-5 time trial by a minute and 46 seconds. DG: The 2022 Winter Paralympics in Beijing brought Oksana seven more medals, including three gold in cross-country skiing and the biathlon. BROADCASTER: And you look at her overall medal tally, Masters entering today with five gold, six silver, three bronze, 14 medals on her way to a 15th career medal over the winter and the summer. DG: So by the time she gets to Milan, Italy, for the 2026 Winter Games, she was the most decorated US Winter Paralympian in history, and she added five more medals to her collection. That brings her current total to 24 Paralympic medals. So I know you represent the United States. You're an American athlete, but you also talk about representing Ukraine when you're competing. Why is that so important to you? OM: Because it's in my blood. I'm Ukrainian. It's what runs through my veins. It's where I was born. I'm a very firm believer of remembering where you come from and where things start. And especially if you get to a point in your life where I'm so lucky to have what I have and achieve what I've have. But I also know very well what it's like on the complete other side of it as someone who didn't have a voice and wasn't believed and overlooked. I always questioned why did I make it out of Ukraine because I had a really close friend there that I unfortunately had to witness and she did not get out. And I felt it's kind of not that I was in war and combat, but I still had a form of survivor's guilt through that side of things and being the one that got out and I have this life now. And I feel like that questioning years and years and why was I so lucky to get out was so I can be that voice for those younger kids, for the people in the orphanages, for my home country, because it's so important to remember your roots and where you come from. And yes, there were some bad things, but there's some really great things. And in 2022, not to go into the politics side of things, but when the war did break out. BROADCASTER: Russia launches a full-scale attack on Ukraine from multiple directions. \[MUSIC\] OM: I felt so selfish to go and compete in a winter games where I just felt like that's the most selfish thing I could do is compete when my home country, where I was from, where I have dreams of still meeting my birth family and seeing with adult eyes where I from where I grew up and I didn't want to go. And my coach at that time was saying you have no idea how many people are connected and support Ukraine and these athletes because through you because you're Ukrainian in your pride and your love for your country and when I started competing I united more so the Ukrainian athletes and Team USA together in cross-country skiing we started doing more and they started talking and they started learning English and communicating. So created more friendships and that is because of that Ukrainian part in me and I feel like every athlete no matter where you're from if you're adopted or if you are from another country and now you live here representing your country in a sport USA now. You have that power to represent more than just one thing and on that start line that's what for me I don't just represent just a girl, I represent single parents who raise their kids single parents. And adoption, and Ukraine dual citizen, being Ukrainian and American, advocating for that. DG: I'm glad as you were wrestling with your coach over whether it was the right thing for you to do to compete that you decided to compete because I do think it's so important to the country to know that one of their own is out there doing great things and representing and lifting up voices. The last thing I wanted to ask you about was your birth parents because I know there was a narrative out there that they just left you at this orphanage because they didn't care about you. But I know you, you mentioned that you're hopeful to meet them sometime. Clear up that story so everyone understands what happened and understands your relationship with them. OM: No, yeah I think a lot of people don't, you know, I was such an angry child. I was an angry racer too and athlete and I felt like that came, but that was my secret power is my rage and anger that all rooted from my birth parents giving me away. And why would they give me away and put me in this place where I would experience all these things. But, when I was competing in Sochi in Ukrainian news, they found my Ukrainian name and was connected through my birth brothers in there and they told me the story of what actually truly happened. So this whole time I thought that they didn't want me, I was ugly and so they gave me away and it was easier but that's not true like they didn't want to give me up. They just didn't have the money and the resources for all the medical care that I would need and the government was forcing her to give me up and would tell her "Hey, she's just gonna die anyways. It's gonna be easier for you guys." And they were young. They didn't have that ability to make all these best decisions, and it was out of love. They gave me away thinking I had a chance at life from this path. And out of that love, she wanted to give a part of her to me. And that's how I got my name Oksana was because her name is Oksana. When I learned that, I felt so guilty for feeling so mad and hateful towards them because I didn't know they were fighting for me in so many other ways I did not know. I want to meet my birth parents with my mom now and just see why I have this flat nose and this hairline and why my hair won't curl and just see if it's also the same with them. But yeah, especially it's interesting because I'm really, really so curious now because as I'm getting older, looking to my own family, and looking into adoption as well. It's something I'm so curious about. And that's the one dream that for me, I will not stop fighting and chasing for. DG: And it sounds like you really want to be a mom yourself. OM: I do. DG: What are your plans and what excites you about motherhood? OM: I want to give something something I never had from like birth and childhood and nurture and just I have this calling and I don't want to say I never have because my mom gave me that but just from very early on childhood and knowing the power of my mom's love and how much she saved my life. I have this calling just something in my heart where I just want to be I just have this maternal feeling inside where I just, I want to be a mom. I want to watch and help nourish and grow and water their dreams and watch them chase their dreams because my mom did that for me. I've spent almost eight years of dreaming of what a perfect family is. And then I've going on 29 years of knowing what a perfect family is. And I want to now spend the next creating that family next. DG: Oksana, thank you so much. It was so lovely to meet you. Thank you for spending time with us. OM: Thank you so much. \[MUSIC\] DG: Next time on Sports in America, what happens when the worst season in franchise history also happens to be your first one as head coach? This is the reality for the Seattle Storm's Sonia Raman. She's hoping her team's losing season gives players the motivation they need to redefine themselves next year. SONIA RAMAN: It's a competitive group, it's a prideful group, and it very much is like a resilient group that's able to come in the next day or come in in the play. DG: Sonia is going to take us inside the locker room and show us what the stats and scores cannot. We'll also hear about her roots in an immigrant family and how she defied their expectations to become a WNBA coach. SR: And at some point, you know, my head coach was really mentoring me a lot, and she was putting the idea in my mind of, this is your calling. Like this is what you should be doing full time. DG: That is next time on Sports in America. This is Sports in America. I'm your host, David Greene. Our executive producers are Joan Isabella and Tom Grahsler. Our senior producer is Michael Olcott. Our producer is Michaela Winberg, and our associate producer is Bibiana Correa. Our engineer is Mike Villers. Our theme \[MUSIC\] is composed by Emma Munger. Our talent booker is Britt Kahn. Our tile artwork was created by Bea Walling. Sports in America is a production of WHYY in Philadelphia and is distributed by PRX. Some of our interviews were originally created by Religion of Sports with special thanks to Adam Schlossman. You can find Sports in America on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, the iHeartRadio app, wherever you get your podcasts. And we also wanna hear from you. How about you drop us a line? You can write us at sportsinamerica@whyy.org. That's sportsinamerica@whyy.org. Thanks, everyone. And we will see you next time for Sports in America.