Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Police Association President Paul McCue chats with Katie Woolf on 360

Transcript

Police Association President Paul McCue chats with Katie Woolf on 360 · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And joining me on the line.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Well, we do know that the Northern Territory Police Association
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: yesterday issued a statement saying that they're aware of this
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: video by Deputy small Page, which has been circulated on
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: social media. The associations say whilst the matter appears accidental,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: the reputation of the police force and its members is
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: of paramount concern and they've immediately called on the Police
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Commissioner to commence an investigation into how the video was
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: posted and what action he intends to take given the
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: reputational damage to the police force following the keyless release
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: of this video. Now the President, Paul Mchue joins me
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: on the line right now, Good morning to you.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Paul, Morning Katie.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Here're you going?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Not too bad?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Paul?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Is an apology good enough in this situation?
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, obviously to give some context to it all,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: I guess, you know, And obviously there are people out there,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: you know, making up their own conclusions about what that
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: comment was all about. And you know, this is certainly
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: not a dig of the senior executive. This is certainly
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: about fairness. This is about making sure the processes that
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: are in place for all our members. That is all
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: ranks are appropriately followed. And now, of course I miss
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: the smallpage certainly did issue an apology, there's no question
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: about that.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: It was quite clear the video was.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Accidentally recorded, but how it ended up on social media
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: is a concern. And obviously in the context of that,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: what's that perception to the public and of course other
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: members similarly circumstances are put through a fairly strict discipline
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: process when these sorts of things happen, and this is
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: about making sure everybody at all ranks is accountable to
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: the Code of conduct, and that's all we're asking.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Has there been a similar situation before where somebody has
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: accidentally posted something on social media like this?
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, social media is a beast, as we know, and
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: of course you know our members are often subjected to
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: extensive investigations for their body worn video for example, or
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: whether it be private messaging that suddenly doesn't become pri
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: than then they're subjected to an extensive internal discipline process
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: which is very stressful and obviously time consuming for that individual.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: They don't will then never afford the opportunity, of course
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: to distinmply put out an apology, and so that was
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: a mistake. We all make mistakes, but it's all about
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I guess, ensuring fairness and ensuring the same process as
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: apply across the board. Again, the comments for the comment,
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: and unless you're in that room, you cannot possibly understand
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: what the context was. But what we have to be
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: careful of, of course, is the perception and under our
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Code of conduct, it applies to all ranks, and it's
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: about being open and transparent, and it's about making sure
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: that there's no discredit or adverse effect to the police force.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: When these things get leaked, and we need to know
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: why it happened.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Now, you said in a statement that your office has
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: been inundated with complaints regarding the video, and we yet
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: to hear what the police Commissioner is going to determine
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: should happen. Now, I don't expect you to identify anybody,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: but what can play have come in and what have
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: those officers been saying to you.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Look, it's obviously primarily from a lot of officers who
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: are disgruntled. They've been through a discipline process themselves at
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: times or they currently are. And I think what we've
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: got to appreciate is and people probably don't quite understand
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: the strain and the stress of the current discipline process
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: that have put on our members. It is very very
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: stressful for them and their families, and so when they
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: are put through a process, and I can assure you
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: if I guess a member of the police force, if
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: that had happened to a senior constable or a sergeant,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: perhaps they would probably be fronting professional standards right now
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: to say, how did that happen? And we're going to
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: commence an investigation. So that's the context to it, and
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: that's why, you know, people got to appreciate we're not
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: sitting here trying to have a dig at the Deputy commissioner.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: This is about a mistake.
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  Speaker 3: This is a mistake that's become public through social media
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  Speaker 3: and as a result of that, there's a lot of
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  Speaker 3: adverse comments about police on there, and that is what
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: we have to try and reduce and understand why it happened,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: how it happened, and that doesn't happen again, and doesn't
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: matter what rank you are.
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  Speaker 2: Now, we just received a message from someone who says
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: that they're a serving member saying that the officer, this
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  Speaker 2: officer sax and hunts people for the most minor of
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  Speaker 2: things and wonders if he'll be served a seventy nine.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you know what that means.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, obviously they're talking there about an internal discipline process. Now,
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  Speaker 3: what we've got to appreciate here is unless sure, at
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: the rank of superintendent all below, you're actually a contract
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: officer and you have a different employment conditions, so to speak,
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  Speaker 3: to the remainder of the police force. So it really
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: depends on what's in those contracts. But of course, what
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I've said is the Code of Conduct and any I
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: guess adverse effects as a result of matters under that
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  Speaker 3: Code of conduct do apply to all ranks, So it
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  Speaker 3: doesn't really matter in terms of the actual internal discipline process.
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  Speaker 3: This is about the code of conduct. This is about
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  Speaker 3: making sure there is no reputation harm to the police force,
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  Speaker 3: and as we've seen, it's likely there has been as
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  Speaker 3: a result of that footage getting out.
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  Speaker 4: So all we're.
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  Speaker 3: Simply asking, and we've made it quite clear, is an
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  Speaker 3: investigation to happen, How did it happen, and what action
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: the Commissioner intends to take, if any, as.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: A result of that investigation. That's all we're asking.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: And Paul, it sounds as though you know, the main
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: reason why the association wants this to happen is because
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: that is what would be expected of officers of a
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: lower rank.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Correct, That's exactly what would happen and be expected of
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: members of the lower rank. We've seen it happen in
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  Speaker 3: the past, will happen in the future. As I've said,
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  Speaker 3: they don't necessarily get the opportunity to put out a
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: broadcasters to apologize, and we appreciate the intent behind that,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: but members of the lower rank do not have that opportunity,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: and I think this is just about fairness to them,
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  Speaker 3: given they are subject to the similar discipline process as
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: we've discussed.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I actually think that you know, when you've
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: put it to us that way, it makes that seem
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: fair enough. Because for me, when I first saw it,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I wonder if this is a bit
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: of a storm in a teacup. But then when you
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: actually talk about the rank and file and you say, well,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: if they were in a similar situation, they would have
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: to go through you know, this process, it does make
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  Speaker 2: you think, well, you know, what's fair for some has
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: to be fair for others, particularly when you're talking about
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  Speaker 2: a police force where you want people to feel that
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: same level of respect that everybody's got to go through
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: the same processes.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that you know, we're all police officers,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: are all on the one team, and I think you
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: know it isn't. I mean, it's quite clear in the
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  Speaker 3: video it was an accidental recording and obviously, as I said,
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: unless you were there, you don't really understand the context
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: of what was said. But the fact that it's been
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: made its way to social media.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: Is the problem.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: And that's often the case with some of our other members,
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  Speaker 3: and of course at that point they're put through a
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: process to investigate why and of course any harm that
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: may come to the police force, and.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: It's all asking. It's just about fairness, that's it.
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  Speaker 3: Paul.
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  Speaker 1: Have you spoken to the Deputy commissioner at all?
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I certainly have you spoke with mister small Page
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  Speaker 3: yesterday of expressed our concerns, obviously, made it clear to
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: him that we have had a lot of complaints in
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  Speaker 3: relation to it, and tried to explain that obviously this
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: is just about having an equal playing field for all ranks,
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  Speaker 3: if you like, and you know he understood our point
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: of view, but of course, you know, Obviously he's going
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: to be people feeling we're having a specific dig at him.
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  Speaker 4: This is not about that.
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  Speaker 3: This is about making sure all members of the police
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  Speaker 3: force have confidence that when matters like this take place,
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  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what rank you are, you are accountable.
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  Speaker 3: And that's all we're asking. When I'm asking for anything
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  Speaker 3: more than that, well, I.
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  Speaker 2: Do just want to ask you while I've got you
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  Speaker 2: on the line. You and I had discussed about a
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: week or so ago about the Police Association survey that
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: had been conducted ahead of the annual conference.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: How did you go with that conference? Did you?
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  Speaker 2: You know, obviously you put those survey results forward to
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: the Minister for Police and also to the Commissioner and everybody.
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  Speaker 1: What was the reaction.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, obviously there was some statistics there. We had
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: over five hundred and thirty respondents to our survey and
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: it was an excellent response rate. There was some concerning
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: statistics in there, which we obviously went through with the
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Commissioner and the Minister, and obviously we'll be putting out
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: something further this week in relation to the results of
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: that survey. Obviously, some of the key points of that, Katie,
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  Speaker 3: are around the number of seventy seven percent of people
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: in our job believe there's not enough police. We've got
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: eighty eight percent concerned with our attrition rates. We've had
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: eighty percent increase in duty since COVID and the same
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: figure having leave cancer will deferred. And of course what
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: we're seeing as a police force that is very tired,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: it's very fatigued and a very under resourced at the moment,
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  Speaker 3: and so there matters that we're taking up with the
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: Minister and the Commissioner this week.
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  Speaker 1: How would you say the morale is of the force
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  Speaker 1: at the moment.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the survey showed sixty four percent state of morales
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: very low or low. Now, that can obviously on the day,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: of course, but I think it reflects at the moment
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: that you know, with COVID and with leave canceled and
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: with the struggling to make ends meet on the front line,
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  Speaker 3: it's pretty tough out there for our police right now.
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  Speaker 3: So we don't need adverse publicity, we don't need this
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  Speaker 3: sort of nonsense coming out into the social media space.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Police are doing it tough, they're doing a great job,
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  Speaker 3: and let's not forget. On the twenty ninth of this month,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: we've got Police Remembrance Day and that's when we're going
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: to stand and remember the hard work police do and
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: of course those that sadly lost their life in the
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: line of duty, and that's what we've got to remember,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: the great work that police do and sometimes sadly they
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: don't come home from that.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: You spot on, Paul.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that we all agree that the
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police do a phenomenal job under what are
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: quite difficult circumstances at different times, particularly through COVID and
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: those roles changing and those responsibilities changing. What did the
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Association make of the government's announcement last week about that
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: plan forward when it comes to COVID, because presumably it
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: is go I mean that the responsibility of our police
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: force does increase to some degree or it's going to
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: continue to be at a greater level with police on boarders,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: police conducting those compliance checks and that kind of thing.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly does, and I know the Commissioner publicly
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: acknowledge that it will impact police resourcing.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: There's no doubt about that.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: And you know, whilst the announcement is not unexpected from
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: our perspective, it certainly will have an impact on police resourcing,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: which as I've said, is already at stretching points. So
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: obviously we're keen for the government to say we acknowledge that,
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: and we will obviously recruit additional personnel to cover off
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: on those requirements if indeed it is a police requirement
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: to do so under that new announcement.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Well, and then we also obviously spoke to the Commissioner
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: last week who he said that he is looking at
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: the legalities and those options in terms of making the
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: vaccine mandatory. Is that something that anybody or any of
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the rank and file of rais with you, Yeah, it
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: certainly is.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Obviously the Commissioner has approached us in relation to mandatory
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: mask wearing in the event you aren't vaccinated. And of
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: course now with the announcement from the Chief Minister and
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: the Commissioner and mandatory vaccinations, we will be taking a
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: lead approach in this. We have from day one in
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: terms of making sure our members are safe, and obviously
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: with mandatory vaccinations, that will the devil will be in
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: the detail as to what that looks like. But of
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: course we support people being vaccinated, but we also support
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: the fact that there may be some people who cannot
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: be vaccinated and we will obviously take those on a
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: case by case basis.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Well Police Association President Paul McHugh, I always appreciate your time.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having a chat with us
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: this morning.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: All right, thanks Katie, thank you,