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Clement Part 4 - Faith Requires Obedience · The Reformed Corner

• Quentin James: This episode of the Reformed Corner Podcast is brought to you by Squirrely Joe's Coffee. Stop funding anti Christian agendas with your coffee habit. Every dollar you spend on coffee is a vote for what you value. Instead, choose coffee roasted by believers who share your convictions. Hello and welcome back to the Reformed Corner Podcast. ⁓ we are going through Clement. We've been going through the ⁓ Apostolic Fathers and we're still on Clement. We will get done eventually. My name is Quentin James. This is Elijah King. He did it. He got his cue. We are the King James only podcast and we are gonna be going through the Church Fathers. Yeah. As the King intended. Of course. Because ⁓ the original ⁓ King James well, I guess the King James include the Apocrypha, did not include Yeah, I don't think it yeah, it didn't include Clement or anything. I mean it's in it's in like Alexandras and ⁓ I think Sinaticus. Yeah. All right. So ⁓ Eli, ⁓ where where did we leave off with Clement? So we left off in chapter 32, and this is where we absolutely crushed all of the opposition ⁓ against Solafida. Yeah, the the papists have been real quiet ever since ⁓ our last episode. I've heard zero papists talk about us talking about Clement. Yeah. They haven't even addressed it. No, no, haven't even t they haven't even heard what we came up with. Yeah. Their silence is deafening. Very deafening. Totally not because ⁓ this is released every other week and ⁓ And nobody's listening yet no one's listened to it yet. Not yet, but we'll get there. We'll get there. ⁓ yes, we stopped in ⁓ chapter thirty two. ⁓ we ended with ⁓ him ⁓ talking about in verse four. And we therefore having been called through his will in Christ Jesus, we are not justified through ourselves or through our wisdom or understanding or piety or deeds which we accomplished in holiness of heart, but through the faith by which all those since the beginning the Almighty God has justified to him be the glory forever, Amen. So this leads us to chapter thirty-three. And this is where Clement really starts getting into like, well, now what do we do? ⁓ so It starts off with chapter thirty three. Therefore what shall we do, brothers? Shall we be idle in good deeds and abandon love? May the Master never allow this to happen, at least to us, but let us be zealous to fulfill every good deed with earnestness and eagerness, for the creator and master of everything himself rejoices greatly in his works. For by his most immense power he established the heavens, and by his incomprehensible understanding he set them in order. And he separated the land from the water containing it, and he established upon it a s the safe foundation of his own will, and the animals moving about within it he commanded to exist by his own decree. Having prepared beforehand the sea and the animals within it, he enclosed them by his own power. Above all, mo the most excellent and by far the greatest creature according to his purpose, the human, he formed with holy and blameless hands, the stamp of his own image. For God spoke thus, Let us make humankind according to our image and likeness, and God made humankind, male and female, he made them. Therefore, having completed all these things, he praised and blessed them, and said, Increase and multiply. Let us consider that all the righteous have been adorned with good works, and even the Lord himself, having adorned himself with good works, rejoiced. Therefore, having this example, let us unhesitatingly devote ourselves to his will, and let us work the righteousness. Work the work of righteousness with all our strength. Lovely stuff. It's so good. It's so and like we've been talking about, it's so pastoral. The way that he writes is so ⁓ he he really knows the scriptures, and that's where he's turning to to get all of his doctrine from. He's not getting it from anywhere else. Yeah, and like like you said, it's pastoral. Like if your church is not having these conversations, you should really find a better church. Your pastor should be doing this for you. and if he's not, then he is not fulfilling his calling. And I'm not saying every pastor has to be perfect, but Clement is a really good measure. Mm-hmm. He's a really good measure. He is constantly in the scriptures, he's applying it to their lives, and he is giving all glory to God. Yeah. And so and rebuking sin, right? Absolutely. Rebuking sin in this particular congregation. He's not just addressing sins of other people. You who aren't even Christians, right? He's not just like bashing on the world. We know that the world is messed up. He he's saying, Corinthians, you have sins to repent of. Yes. ⁓ that's what he's been talking about in this in this whole letter. Yeah, and so starting out, something I enjoy is like, shall we be idle in the good deeds and abandon love? So he's connecting right there that the love they have, or I Paul would probably call it charity that they have. you cannot abandon ⁓ you cannot Avoid your good deeds and still have love. They're thoroughly connected. Right. This is like what he was saying in one of the earlier chapters about, you know, ⁓ if we have if we've been washed clean, if we have clean hands, why are we presenting dirty hands? Yeah. Yeah, exactly the same kind of thing. Yeah, and this is, you know, it's the you know, faith it's you know ⁓ this is totally the Protestant thing, but faith alone, but faith is never alone. Yes. So faith that saves is never alone. Yes, exactly. Yeah. ⁓ so And I l I loved what he said here at the at the very beginning of verse of ⁓ chapter thirty three. Therefore what shall we do, brothers? Shall we be idle in good deeds and abandon love? May the master never allow this to happen. That sounds exactly like Paul all the time where he says, ⁓ absolutely not, no, may it never be when when he he uses the same kind of ⁓ guess, I guess, at what the inference of the opposition is gonna be. ⁓ the reason Paul is so constantly accused of well if you think faith is all that's necessary for salvation, that means people aren't going to be ⁓ walking in righteousness. People aren't gonna aren't going to take their duties seriously ⁓ to actually obey God. Well the reason that he's being accused of that is because he is saying we must ⁓ we are only saved by faith. It's faith alone. ⁓ you can't get this objection of well, if faith alone saves Then that ⁓ that means we might as well just sin as much as we want. But and that that's Romans 6. That's exactly what Paul addresses in Romans 6. ⁓ Salvation by grace through faith is not a license to sin, because ⁓ when we are saved, ⁓ the fruit that we bear, the justification of our justification is our good works. If we do not have good works, we do not have faith. But the good works aren't the cause of our justification, aren't cause of our right standing before God, it is our faith. ⁓ because it really is Christ that is the cause of our justification and faith unites us to him. And this was one of this is one of the things that I th that we have really lost in our colloquial Christianity is like what does faith actually do? You know, faith isn't just like, ⁓ yes, I have faith and therefore I'm saved. No. Faith is the thing that unites you yourself to Christ. And so when the Father looks at you, he doesn't see your works, your righteousness, righteousness. No, he sees Christ's works. And Christ's righteousness. Right. And that that William Perkins quote that we've quoted ⁓ to death on this, what is it again? ⁓ that God only crowns in us his own works or something like that. Christ's works. Christ's work, yeah. His son. Yeah. so we should be doing good deeds. ⁓ not just because it's ⁓ you know, to show men, but it's also it's a glory to God. You know, he continues in verse two. ⁓ for the creator and master of everything rejoices greatly in his works. Yeah and what are his works? That's us. Mm-hmm. It's him working through us. Yeah, creation. ⁓ what what is Westminster Shorter Catechism? ⁓ what are what are the works of creation? What what what is God's providence? Mm-hmm. Man, I'm blanking on it. ⁓ I've got it right here. We can pull it up. Yeah, you do you do that. ⁓ I just wanted to touch on while while you're getting that, I wanted to touch on this amazing Statement in ⁓ verse seven. He says, Let us consider that all the righteous have been adorned with good works. ⁓ yes. What I love about that is it is the assumption of righteousness prior to good works. The good works adorn those who are already righteous. The good works do not make the person righteous. It is because they are righteous that they perform good works. We have a debt. and so the only way for us to have quote unquote meritorious works is for them to be perf ⁓ performed on behalf of us because we can never do it. Right. Yeah, and even if we've done all that we can do, ⁓ Christ says that we should say ⁓ we are unprofitable servants. Yes. ⁓ we we have Everything that we can do, even if we do everything that God asks us, we can never do more than He asks of us. No. And we we should glory in the fact that, you know, we're created beings and we have to look to God. This is one of the things that I love about like reformed ⁓ scholasticism. ⁓ the systematic theologies always start with a right understanding of God. Yeah. ⁓ so I'm going through Bob Ink's work right now. ⁓ And at the very beginning, it's like, ⁓ what is the highest good? The highest good is God and his glory. And so when we are here ⁓ on earth, we're creatures. we were originally intended to model that glory on earth. Like that's the point of Adam having dominion over all creation. And so when we lost that in Adam's fault, it leaves this hole in us, you know, and that hole can only be filled by God. Yeah. ⁓ and So we should ⁓ imitate that and we are bound to imitate it by our nature because our ⁓ telos is directly oriented to God. Yeah. Telos. What is telos? ⁓ that is the ⁓ it's the let's see, what's the best way to describe it? It is the the right order of values. And what I mean by that is like God your telosh should be at the high the highest of your hierarchy. It's your purpose. It's your purpose. Yeah. That would have been a lot easier way to say it. I was gonna think of a cool way to say it, but no. No, it's just your purpose. Like God created you to be a glory to him. Mm-hmm. And so when man fell, they stopped doing that. And that leaves that hole in their hearts. Yeah. Do you find ⁓ in the shorter catechism? I did not. I think it's I think it's like a question I think it's in the f it's somewhere in the first ten. ⁓ okay. Or twenty. I am very good at memorizing it. Yeah. Even though like I I know all the songs at this point ⁓ that have come out, but I ca I couldn't tell you what number it is. Are you asking for the decrees of God? Yes, what are the decrees of God? ⁓ the decrees of God are his eternal purpose according to the counsel of his will whereby for his own glory he hath foreordained whatsoever comes to pass. That's right. And then how doth God executeth his decrees? Do want to try? God executeth his decrees in the works of creation and providence. What what is works of providence? What yeah, what are God's works of providence? God's works of providence are his most holy, wise, and powerful preserving. Yeah. Most wise and powerful preserving all his creatures and all their actions. Yeah, and governing all governing all his creatures and all their actions. I was close. Closer you're getting there. Yeah, look, we went through this with my kids like a year ago. ⁓ and we've moved on to Heidelberg now, or I guess we've moved back 'cause this Westminster came after Heidelberg but we we're we're switched over to Heidelberg, so I'm it's getting a little fuzzy. But yeah. The point is, I got it. You did get it. Like one hundred percent without fail got the whole catechism verbatim memories. Yeah, you know what we're gonna do is we're just gonna edit it in, or we're just gonna read over. That's right. Yeah, I'm just gonna do a voiceover and reading the catechism. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ any any other things that you really wanted to touch on there in chapter thirty three? I it it really was him just touching on God's works of creation, ⁓ demonstrating his glory, power, sovereignty, goodness, ⁓ man being the crown cre the crown of creation. what is it? ⁓ man is the glory of God, woman is the glory of man, because we are the image of God. We're God's glory. Yeah, though one thing I would point out is ⁓ his understanding that ⁓ he believes genesis is real. Yes. Well and so does the Westminster Confession. So does the Westminster Confession. ⁓ created all things in the space of six days. Yep. And all very good. All very good. And I remember watching, you know, there's a a debate with ⁓ Redeem Zoomer and Keith Ofski and they were debating over evolution. And ⁓ I think Keith Oskey brought up the Westminster Confession and Catechism, how if you are adhering to Westminster, you are bound to hold a literal six days because it's baked into the confession in the space of six days. It's a it's a time bound thing. and Zoomer was like, Nah, it's just ⁓ th th that's what the Bible says, but it's not what it literally means. Yeah, I He also brought a woman pastor on, you know. Yes. He's he's got his own problems in the PC PC USA. Yeah. ⁓ Zoomer, I appreciate you for a lot of things you've done. I wish you the best. ⁓ he's totally gonna comment on this. ⁓ yeah. Absolutely. He watches everything I do. Obviously. I don't know why. He's got a crush on me or something. He might. Well it's your hair. That's what's doing it. See here's the problem. Well, I'm I'm getting a haircut this this week. This week so sorry, man. Sorry. Sorry, Richard. You it's going away. It's going away. That's rough, buddy. Yeah. The w the one thing I will say, even though we are an authorized and authoritative podcast, we do not have the ceiling fan. Yes, we don't have the ceiling fan. It's a hundred degrees in this room right now. That's that's an exaggeration. It's probably ninety five. ⁓ but makes it so much better. It's toasty. It is it is hot in here. We can't get the AC on because if we do it's gonna be way too loud. We've had too many technical issues today as it goes. So yeah, that would be that would be rough. We're just gonna sweat through it and ⁓ hopefully Yeah. You don't hear our sweating in the microphones. ⁓ hopefully not. but these are the righteous deeds that we've been called to do. Yes. We suffer for the Lord. This is all for his his glory. I'm sweating for the kingdom. Yes. ⁓ my goodness. Anyway. Anyway, continuing. We'll see if that actually makes it through the cut. ⁓ Yeah, I'm putting everything in. Everything. Everything's heading up there. Stop giving your hard earned money to pagans. Look. We are Christians, we are reformed Christians, and all of us love coffee. But every dollar you spend on coffee is a vote for what you value. Instead, choose coffee roasted by believers who share your convictions. Why fund the enemy's kingdom when you can keep the money in house? But not only that, Squirrely Joes makes fantastic coffee. So far I've tried three of their blends. This here is peace, but my personal favorite is the Covenant Dark Roast. You've reformed your theology, now it's time to reform your coffee. Head over to squirrelyjoes.com and use code corner at checkout for fifteen percent off your first order. That's squirrelyjoes.com and code corner C O R N E R at checkout for fifteen percent off your first order. It supports the show, it supports a great Christian family, and it tastes amazing. Now, back to the show. So just the last thing, ⁓ having this example, devote ourselves to his will. Let the work ⁓ let us work the work of righteousness for all our strength. So all of you out there, do the same. Yes. Appeal to Clement. ⁓ if someone asks you what you're doing. We are saved, we are justified by faith and not our works, but still let us work the work of righteousness with all our strength. Absolutely. Because we have been saved, because we have been justified, therefore we will work heartily unto the Lord. Yeah. That's that's what it means to live the Christian life. Absolutely. So ⁓ going into chapter thirty four, ⁓ the good worker receives the bread of his work with confidence, the lazy and careless one cannot look his employer in the face. Therefore it is necessary that we be eager for good deeds, for all things are from him, for he warns us, behold the Lord, and the reward is before his face, to pay each one according to his work. Therefore he urges us who believe who believe in him with the whole heart not to be idle or careless in every good work. Let our boast and confidence be in him, let us be subject to his will. Let us consider the whole multitude of his angels, how standing by they serve his will. For the scripture says ten thousand, ten thousand stood by him, and thousands upon thousands serve him. And they cried out, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole creation is full of his glory. Therefore we two in harmony together, being gathered in conscience as with one mouth, we cry out fervently to him. so that we may be sharers in his glory great and glorious promises. For he says, Eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, and into the human heart it has not entered what the Lord has prepared for those who wait for him. That's all you got. Yeah. It's crazy. Amen. Amen. And again, in in verse two, therefore it is necessary that we be eager for good deeds, for all things are from him. We have to be, as Christians, justified by faith alone, justified not by our works, we have to be eager for good deeds, for all things are from him. That's exactly what Paul says in Philippians. ⁓ where Paul mentions his knowing who Clement is, his friendship with Clement. ⁓ he says that it is God who works in us both to will and to work for his good pleasure. because of that, we must be eager for good deeds. We must be ⁓ as as it's as in Ephesians ⁓ two, eight through ten, that we have been ⁓ yeah, not just nine, right? We have been ⁓ saved ⁓ by grace are you saved through faith, not of not of works or not of your own doing. Man, I I'm whiffing it on the memorization. You are still Always have been. Anyway, but he says that we have been ⁓ we are his workmanship created unto good works, created for good works. Not that the works are the cause of our salvation, 'cause grace is. Faith is the instrument that unites us, and the works are the outflowing of that salvation. I think what you're trying to say is ⁓ for by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing. It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no man may boast. For we are his workmanship. Created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk it within them. Yes, and I will have everybody know who's not watching that Eli just read it. This was not from memory. ⁓ I was close. You were close, you were getting there. I was not close. I had keywords. Keywords, yeah. ⁓ I had keywords and I had the idea, but I did not have the phrasing at all. No. No, it's okay. ⁓ that's one of the cool things about having scripture is you can always go back to it. Yep. Yeah. It's ⁓ And thanks to the Protestants we can actually read it. ⁓ yeah. It's not we don't have to depend on the priest to tell us what the the scripture says. Well he would tell us in Latin and we'd have complete confidence in what he said. Yes. And if he's got the keys to the kingdom and the keys to the scripture and tells us what it means. Obviously means that. Yeah. There's no way to question him because we shouldn't question him. He's always right about everything, right? That's what it means. That's what ⁓ I will I ⁓ I will build my church upon upon this rock I will build my church. The kingdom of of hell will not prevail against it. That means that ⁓ the church can never make a mistake ever. Absolutely. Yeah, one hundred percent. And this is why we are holy reformed, a Catholic Orthodox faith. Yes. Yeah. Anyway We're gonna be bashing on the Papists and the Orthodox a lot, ⁓ during this Well, this whole podcast, right? This whole the whole thing is we want to be demonstrating Protestants as a valid, the valid ⁓ expression of the early church. Especially the reformed tradition. And that's not, you know, and we love you guys. Honestly, we do. ⁓ I have many, many ⁓ Catholic friends. You know what? This feels like the ⁓ you know the statement of, ⁓ I have a black friend, don't I? But no Yeah, you're not racist, you have a black friend. Yeah, no. It's we love you guys. ⁓ but you should recognize that you're claims your epistemological claims of, ⁓ yeah, we're the true church and here's why. ⁓ does not withstand historical scrutiny. Yeah. ⁓ that's why and that's not to say that there aren't historians in every tradition, but it's just I don't find it convincing. What was the one you were telling me about on Sunday with the Septuagint and the Orthodox? ⁓ Philarot Philorette of Moscow. Yeah, he's got a cool one. ⁓ Slight deviation for two seconds. Let me pull up his catechism. This is one hundred percent related to Clement. We don't do Absolutely. ⁓ his catechism. We are hyper focused. ⁓ so this is from the longer catechism of the Orthodox Church. Okay. ⁓ nineteen. What is it that you call holy scripture? Certain books written by the Spirit of God through men sanctified by God called prophets and apostles, these books are commonly termed the Bible. What does the ter word Bible mean? It is Greek and it means the books. The name signifies the the sacred books deserve more attention before all others. ⁓ continuing on, why then was holy scripture given? To this end that divine might revelation might be preserved more exactly and unchangeably. In holy scriptures we read the words of the prophets and apostles precisely as if we were living with them and listening to them. Although the latest ⁓ of the sacred books were written a thousand and sometimes hundreds of years before our time. So continuing on ⁓ this is j ⁓ question twenty-five. when were the sacred books written? At different times, some before the birth of Christ, some afters. Question twenty-six. Have not these two divisions of sacred but books each their have their own names? They have. Those written before the burst of the birth of Christ are called the books of the Old Testament, while those written after are called the books of the New Testament. What are the Old and New Testaments? In other words, the Old and New Testament. the covenants of God with men what is consisted in the Old Testament in this that God promised men a divine Savior and prepared them to receive him Okay and continuing on to thirty one how many books are of the Old Testament Saint Cyril of Jerusalem, Saint Athanasius the Great, Saint John of Damascus, reckoned them at twenty two, agreeing therein with the Jews, whoso reckoned them in the original Hebrew tongue. Why should we attend to the reckoning of the Hebrews? Because as the Apostle Paul says, unto them were committed the oracles of God, and the sacred books of the Old Testament have been received from the Hebrew Church of that Testament by the Christian Church of the New. How does Saint Cyril and Saint Athanasius enumerate the books of the Old Testament as follows the Book of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, the Book of Numbers, Deuteronomy, the Book of Jesus, the Son of Nun? The book of Judges, and with it as an appendix, the book of Ruth, the first and second books of Kings as two parts of one book, the third and fourth book of Kings, the first and second books of the paralipomena. Say that three times. Paralipomina? Yes, say that five times faster. What does mean? ⁓ that is ⁓ the that's Chronicles, I believe. I th I would think Chronicles was third and fourth kings. ⁓ let me double check that. And since we're this is totally going in there. ⁓ the Greek name for the book of the Books of Chronicles. So or Baruch. That's the other one it could be. ⁓ the first book of Edris, the and the second, or as it is entitled in the Greek, the book of Nehemiah, the book of Esther, the book of Job, the Psalms, the Proverbs of Solomon, Ecclesiastes, also by Solomon, the Song of Songs, also by Solomon, the book of the prophet Isaiah, of Jeremiah, of Ezekiel, of Daniel, and of the twelve prophets. prophets. Why is there no notice taken in this enumeration of the books of the Old Testament, of the Book of Wisdom or the Son of Sir the Book of Wisdom of the Son of Sirach, and of certain others, because they do not exist in the Hebrew. How are we to regard these last named books? Athanasius the Great says that they have been appointed by of the fathers to be read by the proselytes who are preparing for admission into the church, so that'd be the catechumens. ⁓ is there any division of the books of the Old Testament which you can give a more distinct account of their contents? They may d be divided into the four following classes the books of the law, which form the basis of the Old Testament, the historical books, which contain principally the history of the religion, doctrinal, which contains the doctrine of religion, and prophetical, which contains prophecies or predictions of things of the future, especially of Jesus Christ. That's fascinating. Yeah. And and remind me again, when when was this written? ⁓ Philorette of ⁓ Moscow, I believe he's eighteen. I'm just gonna look it up. 'Cause we should I'd love to have just a conversation on this 'cause it's fascinating. Yeah. I mean you have a patriarch? ⁓ seventeen eighteen hundred, so seventeen eighty two to eighteen sixty seven. Yeah. But he's a he's a patriarch in the Russian Orthodox Church. Yep, he's the me he was the Metropolitan of Moscow and Coloma and was the most influential in the Russian church. And he's rejecting the apocryphal writings as scripture. Yeah. and you said he's the ⁓ he was the most influential at the time? ⁓ yeah. So what was the official position of the church at the time? ⁓ for this? This is so I actually asked an Orthodox guy who's like, Hey, if I wanted to learn more, what should I read? And he that's how I found out about this. Huh. I went and I read it, I was like, hang on, that's pulled straight from like the Osberg Confession. Yeah, that's Luther. That is straight straight Luther. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and then you start digging into ⁓ the guy we should have on Byzantine Reformation for this. Yeah. ⁓ going through the the Russian Orthodox Church's ⁓ changes between like seventeen hundred and the nineteen hundreds. Well, into the twentieth century I should say. ⁓ the changes that were made due to their influence with the Lutherans. So ⁓ the the actu so some I'm gonna get this wrong, ⁓ but I'm gonna say it anyway. The ⁓ Tsar of Moscow dissolved the s Russian Orthodox Synod. Okay. And re ⁓ instated it under a Lutheran type synodal structure. Interesting. Okay. Or Presbyterial. ⁓ so he complete it was completely gone. ⁓ and he remade it ⁓ to fit more like a Protestant piece. And so that only changed back in the nineteen hundreds. But the recent to make mistakes though. Obviously not. ⁓ so very fascinating. I totally got it wrong. I s might go in the thing, might not. ⁓ but yeah. Absolutely fascinating. Yeah, we'll need to look into that some more. That's that's really cool. I primarily ⁓ most of my thinking re revolves around how Reformed Catholicism relates to Roman the Roman church. ⁓ but there is still a lot ⁓ applicable to the Eastern Orthodox and and trying to understand what it is that they believe, what they teach and ⁓ our answers to that. And this this seems to me like You guys are flip flopping around. ⁓ It is it is interesting. ⁓ 'cause here's the thing, is like church history's never clean. Mm-hmm. It is never a clean ⁓ break between You good? I'm good. Okay. ⁓ there's it's just never clean 'cause it's history, you know, things just change. Yeah. Slowly and over time. And so that's where the claims ⁓ the Protestant claims of accretions come in. Mm-hmm. ⁓ 'cause we just see that the church changes and it adds things that w you know, we don't see as salvific. You know, the one Marriottan dogma that's salvific is that ⁓ She is the Theotokus. She is the God bearer. Not because it says anything specifically about Mary, but because it speaks of Christ. Yeah, because it's it's saying that Christ was truly incarnate. Yeah. So therefore Mary is the mother of God. Christ is God. Mary is his mother. Mary is the mother of God. Pretty simple logical syllogism. ⁓ the issue is when you try to elevate what it means to be mother of God to now co mediatrics, like we had some discussions of in ⁓ Rome pretty recently, ⁓ or any capacity in which she contributes to our salvation. Yeah. ⁓ the way that she could contribute our s to our salvation is by like just you know, you see a good role role model. Mm-hmm. You see a woman who is faithful to her calling as a mother. Like that's what that that's what scripture says about her. Right. Scripture does not say much about her. No, it's it's always ⁓ very reverent when it speaks. Incredibly so there's no she is ⁓ Hail Mary, mm-hmm. You know, full of grace, or highly favored one, depending on your translation. The Lord the Lord is with thee. The Lord is with thee. ⁓ so does that directly involve her sinlessness, ⁓ her perpetual virginity, her assumption? Not necessarily. And you can appe you know, you can ⁓ They're all things that can be discussed, but none of them is set dogmatically in scripture. No, and it shouldn't be something that is ⁓ salvific. Mm-hmm. And it's crazy that of the four papal infallible claims ex ca from from the chair, ex cathedra. Yeah. They're like all of them, I think, are Mary having to do with her. Right. I could be wrong about maybe all of them. A good a good number of them at least have to do with Mary. What do you mean by like ⁓ dogma? The ex cathedral statements from the Pope. There's been four. ⁓ I'd have to look into that because you also have like the papal supremacy claims back in the twelve hundreds. Yes, but I don't think that those were ex cathedra. They're still infallible, but they weren't, as far as I understand, considered to be ex cathedra. But I I mean I don't know, I could be wrong. Maybe maybe I'm just ⁓ We should look it up. Yeah. Another another podcast. Another podcast. Another episode dismantling the papacy when we actually know what we're talking about. Well I you're Papacy. Here here's my view on the papacy. The councils of the ⁓ Catholic Church and the ex ca and the ca ex cathedral statements of the Pope make specific claims about ⁓ Roman pro primacy and supremacy and that it has always been such. Yes. No. So Clearly not true. Clearly not true. ⁓ so that that's that's my view on it. It's you know, did the doctrine of you know of ⁓ bishops ⁓ slowly increase as di ⁓ division ⁓ increased within as you know as Christianity grew. Yeah ⁓ Jerome talks about it, you know they elected leaders for unity. Yeah. And that is attested to not just by Jerome, but there's many others throughout church history. Most of them seem to be calling back to Jerome's statement. But ⁓ that's kind of the understanding is like God set up presbyters and deacons But for purposes of unity, it ⁓ grew into a three tier structure. Yeah. But ⁓ Rome specifically dogmatizes that it has always been a three tier structure. And that's just not the case in history. It's not. In and some Anglicans would say it is. ⁓ but most would actually admit no it was Presbyterian at the beginning. Yeah. And y yeah, you can make the claim that it was a good thing to develop into a three tier structure. Yeah. But that's not how it was set up. Yeah. Yeah, there's we've talked about some some people that we should have on to discuss ⁓ w why they're Anglican. I'm looking at you, Paul. Yeah. ⁓ So getting back into Clement, since we took a very long tangent, ⁓ he says in ⁓ thirty-four one, the the worker receives the bread of his work with confidence, the lazy and careless one cannot look his employer in the face. Now w I know Paul writes to someone with this concept in mind. of ⁓ whatever we do we work heartily unto the Lord. I I know it's in Colossians, but is it also in Corinthians? ⁓ I think so, but I think he's also ⁓ let me see if I can find ⁓ here. I looking, there's ⁓ some Old Testament allusions in here. Yeah. But I just think it's interesting because I I believe he duh he du Paul writes to the Corinthians the same idea. Don't be lazy. ⁓ work for your employer not as a people pleaser. That's that's Colossians. That's Colossians. That's Colossians. ⁓ but I was just trying to think like did the Corinthians have a problem with laziness if Paul wrote to them as well about the same issue? May maybe not. Maybe it was just a Colossians, you wrote that too. Yeah. But anyway, ⁓ yeah, that that was just kind of what I was thinking about. And then he he cites that ⁓ Isaiah six and and revelation passage, holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole creation is full of his glory. Therefore we two in harmony together being gathered in conscience as with one mouth, cry out fervently to him, so that we may be sharers of his great and glorious promises. And that is the point of our good deeds. The point of our good works are to glorify our Father in heaven. So we should be, as Christians justified by faith, we should be doing good works for the purpose of glorifying the name of Christ and the name of the Father. ⁓ we we cannot live a what is it, easy beliefism type lifestyle. We cannot live a ⁓ like a hyper grace where gr ⁓ grace just means You are forgiven and therefore now you can do whatever you want. That is so ⁓ anti Christian. It's antinomian. ⁓ and it's interesting because we tend to think in terms of ⁓ there's legalism on one hand and antinomianism on the other hand. Yeah. But they're so interconnected as well, 'cause it all revolves around the law. It's whether we obey the law or whether we don't have to obey the law. But the whole point it is, is that we have been saved by grace, and so by grace we now can obey the law. Yes. But it's it it is as ones who have been made righteous that we are now workers of the law. Yeah, and it's it really shows where your love is. Mm-hmm. You know, is your love towards doing actions or is your love towards God? Christ says, If ye love me, keep my commandments. Yeah. So this is ⁓ one of my favorite things together because later on ⁓ I believe it's later on. No, no, he alre he already mentioned it in the previous previous bit where he talk there, there we go. ⁓ 'cause he talks about considering the whole multitude of angels, how they are standing there to do his will. ⁓ and they're all crying that, you know, holy is the Lord of hosts. Yeah. Our ⁓ our hearts should be as the angels. Yeah. Are we actually desiring to do God's will? Or are we desiring to just do what we have planned throughout the day? No. Are we are we sitting here thinking, you know, I just I have this schedule, I have this plan that I want to follow, I wanna do everything that I have on my plate, and then God throws us a curveball of this day is not gonna look like how you planned. How are you gonna respond to that? Are you gonna respond with grumbling and and ⁓ being disgruntled, or are you gonna say, God is sovereign, God is over this day and every day, and God wants me to respond to this curveball? ⁓ by hitting it out of the park. He wants me to be faithful and obedient even when it's hard. ⁓ and I think sometimes when we think of obedience we tend to we tend to think of like these w these specific things, right? Like you you want to be obedient to God when a scantily clad woman walks down in front of you. You want to be obedient to God and not look. Right. But the problem is those are those are more like big instances of obedience. Yeah. We need to be having daily continued small acts of obedience. I've got a great one for the audience. Mm-hmm. ⁓ guys, how have you loved your wife today? Yeah. How? How? You're you're called to imitate Christ and how Christ loves his bride the church. Mm-hmm. He gave his life for her. How did you love your wife today? Love her, serve her, give yourself up for her. ⁓ this does not mean that she runs the show, right? We believe in ⁓ federal headship of as husbands. We are patriarchal, we are not ⁓ egalitarian, but we also understand all Our obligation is to love and serve our wives and lead them in our family mission because it is ⁓ as husbands, as the federal heads, we have a mission given to us by God. The woman comes in as our wife, as our helper to do that. ⁓ but the mission should be also for her good. Yeah. And so if she's in a marriage, if if your wife is in a marriage and just like really dislikes you and dislikes being married to you. That's your fault. That's your fault. You need to love your wife better. And if she is If you are doing the right things and ⁓ if you're doing the right things and you've talked to the elders of your church and they've said and they've confirmed that hey, you are doing the right things. Well guess what? You need to involve your the elders of your church with your wife. Yeah. 'Cause guess what? That's what you're they're called to do. They're called to shepherd the flock. Yeah. And and we're not saying that women never get things wrong. We're not ⁓ we're not gonna be white knights here. No. Sometimes the the women ⁓ that we marry, ⁓ singular woman that we marry and for some women Gregum Young's over here ⁓ you know, walking crawling up out of his grave. He's like, ooh, he's got his ears worked up. No. ⁓ every now and then a guy will marry a woman who does not ⁓ submit to him as as a wife ought to. ⁓ and so we're not saying that that doesn't happen, but we are saying that as as husbands, our job is to lead, our job is to not make excuses when our wife doesn't submit to us. Yeah. ⁓ and to try to fix it. Yep. And you ⁓ you are called to because it is your household. It is your household. So ⁓ do that. Love your wife. ⁓ she should respect you. ⁓ I find it so interesting that the women are not called to love us. Yeah. They're called to respect. Yeah, they're called to love us in the sense that we should love everyone. Yeah. But I think one of our pastors talked about how ⁓ God explicitly tells the men respect. Or ⁓ love your wife. Yes. Because respect is more natural to them. And explicitly tells the women to love your husband. Respect your husband. Yes, there you go. Because love is more natural to them. And so he's calling us to do the thing that doesn't feel natural to us. No. Respect this man. ⁓ you want to show your love through your l love, right? You you there's there's ways that women tend to show love and there's ways that men tend to show respect. But the woman needs to be loved, the man needs to be respected. They both need both, obviously. Mm-hmm. But y there's a specific calling to each partner in this ⁓ dance because th ⁓ we don't want to be stepping on toes. ⁓ the man needs to lead and ⁓ the woman needs to ⁓ show respect to the man by following him and submitting him submitting to him, obeying him. As the King James puts it. One of the reasons why we are the King James only podcast. Because it's authoritative. we've we've talked two chapters. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. Chapter thirty five. Chapter thirty-five. How blessed and wonderful are the gifts of God, beloved. Life in immortality, splendor in righteousness, truth with boldness, faith with confidence. Self-control in holiness and all these things fall within our comprehension. Therefore, what then are the things being prepared for those who wait? The Creator and the Father of Ages, the All Holy One Himself, knows their magnitude and beauty. Therefore, let us strive to be found among the number of those who wait, so that we may have a share in the gifts which were promised. But how shall this be, beloved, if our understanding is faithfully fixed on God, if we seek out what is pleasing and acceptable to him, if we accomplish what is fitting to his unblemished will, and we follow the way of truth, driving away from ourselves all injustice and wickedness, greediness, strife, both malice and deceit, both gossip and slander, hatred toward God, both pride and arrogance, were both empty conceit and inhospitality. For those who do these things are hateful to God, and not only those who do them, but also those who approve of them. For the scripture says But to the sinner God said, Why do you recount my regulations and take up my covenant in your mouth? But you hate instruction and cast out my words behind you. If you saw a thief you joined with him, and with adulterers you made you portion. Your mouth multiplied evil and your tongue wove deceit. Sitting down against your brother you spoke evil against the son of your mother, you put a cause for stumbling. You have done these things, and I kept silent. You supposed, O lawless one, that I would be like you. I will convict you, and I will set you against your own face. Understand these things then, ones who forget God, lest he sees you like a lion, and And there be nobody to deliver you, the sacrifice of praise will glorify me, and there is a way which I will show him the salvation of God. You need to show me how you keep your pipe, but I'm not doing well today. Yeah, I am struggling today as well. I d it's ⁓ it's been going out on me too. I've I've I've relit it multiple times. yeah, it's just something you gotta you gotta get used to. It's not something you can really teach, it's more something you learn by practice, by doing. But anyway, I was really struck when I read this passage how much of it again is echoed in Paul's letters to the Corinthians and then also Paul's letter to the Romans, right? Verse ⁓ verse six. Those who do these things are hateful to God and not only those who do them, but also those who approve of them. That's Romans one. Mm-hmm. ⁓ but you you're reading all these things that he talks about where ⁓ we're to be ⁓ driving away from ourselves all injustice and wickedness, greediness, strife, malice and deceit, gossip and slander. Those are things that got ⁓ that Paul was writing to the Corinthians as well. ⁓ and again, Clement's letter is to the Corinthians. Clement's letter is ⁓ to try to correct some of the issues that have been going on in Corinth, just as Paul's letters were. Yes. And We we know that ⁓ Clement is so familiar with Paul. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and we also see that we as humans deal with the same sins again and again and again. because that's what the apostles are correcting. Mm-hmm. And so we in our own lives we shouldn't be ⁓ Just looking at the Corinthians and say, hey, look at what they're doing. Right. We shouldn't have the the beam in our own eye. We shouldn't be holier than thou. Right. ⁓ because this is a real problem. ⁓ Yeah, how many how many churches today is this totally applicable to? Yeah. Our church. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ everybody's church will have people in them, and sometimes it's us who are filled with malice and gossip and bitterness and ⁓ grudge holding and being unkind and uncharitable toward our neighbors and our brothers and ⁓ these these are things that we all need to hear. And there's a reason that it's written down so many times in scripture, but it's also ⁓ something that was a chief concern for the early church. Yeah, and something I find interesting is this has come up I think three or four times now that he includes inhosp ⁓ inhospitality. We as Christians are required to be hospitable. Yeah. The Israel was required to be hospitable. You know, whenever someone came and sojourned in your land. Yeah. You had to treat them like family. Yeah. so we should do the same. We shouldn't ⁓ treat invaders of our land like family. Yes, there is a difference. There is a difference. But ⁓ the sojourners, you know. ⁓ someone shows up at your church, it's their first time, put your arm around them, say, Hey, yeah. Welcome. Be kind. Be kind. Be kind. Let them know that that you ⁓ Love them. Even if you've never met them before, this is your first time meeting them. Show them the love of Christ. Give them the peace of Christ. Yes. ⁓ because what do we what do we love in people? We love the image of God. The image of God is in every man, and so there should be a love for wherever we see that image. And there should be a hatred for wherever we see that image marred. Yes. Yes. ⁓ another thing that I really like is at the beginning he tells us what the gifts of God are. Which is life and immortality, splendor and righteousness, righteousness, truth with boldness, faith with confidence, self control and holiness, and all these things fall within our comprehension. Yeah. So these gu gifts that God gives are given to all. Yeah. ⁓ and to specific people, it might be, you know, in a greater portion or a lesser portion, depending on what God's will is with you. Yeah. But ⁓ these gifts are given. Mm-hmm. And he he does say here that ⁓ these gifts will be given in a a a greater measure, I think is kind of what he's getting at ⁓ to those who do God's will, to those who work righteousness. And one of those things was life immortal. Yes. ⁓ why is he saying, after just recently saying that we're justified by faith, why is he now saying that we get eternal life through our righteous deeds? Well, because these righteous deeds are the gifts of God. They're the things that are given to us in Christ. Mm-hmm. So because we are united with Christ, we are performing his actions. We're performing his works. ⁓ you know, we only pre I think it's in is it Peter, yeah, first Peter or something where he says that we perform the acts that God has prepared before us? I think so. Yeah, I think that's first Peter. ⁓ and so he's just he's saying that here. God gives us the gifts and we are required to use it. And life and immortality, ⁓ you know, we're Reformed Christians, we'd say that that is parti at least in part, the Eucharist. You know. All those who faithfully receive the Eucharist receive immort e eternal life. Right. so because the Eucharist is more than a symbol. Yeah. It's not just a symbol but just a symbol. Yeah, it's ⁓ it is the flesh and blood of Christ. Yes. We we we truly believe that when we partake of communion we are partaking of his body and his blood. That's what Paul says in First Corinthians ten. we say it's the same people that Clement is writing to. Same people, yep. And we say it's a sacramental mystery. Mm-hmm. ⁓ we say it's performed ⁓ through faith in ⁓ by the action of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. But we still receive true blood. We still receive true ⁓ br you know, true flesh. Right. And it's it's all by faith. All by faith. Yeah. Let's try to maybe p pick up the pace a little bit as we go through this. Instead of just reading each chapter, let's maybe touch on some of the highlights we've had for the next couple. Thirty-six, ⁓ who do we find our salvation? It's found in Christ, who is our high priest, our defender, and the helper of our weaknesses. Yeah. It's not found in my good works. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. It's found in Jesus Christ, who is the high priest. Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ my goodness, we're gonna get so sidetracked. ⁓ this is one of the reasons I think ⁓ part of me wants ⁓ Hebrews to be written by ⁓ Clement. Yeah. Is because he specifically addresses that Christ is our high priest. Yep. And that is the theme through Hebrews is that the old sacraments were done away the ⁓ not sacraments, the old offerings were done away with and Christ is our high priest and of our offerings. Right. Well, and you know, again, I'm still confessionally bound to think that Paul wrote Hebrews ⁓ He does say here in chapter thirty six, for so it is written, the one who makes his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire. Verse four, but of his son, thus spoke the Master, You are my son, I today have begotten you. Ask from me, and I will give to you the Gentiles for your inheritance, and for your possession the ends of the earth. And again he says to him, You sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool to your feet. Who therefore are the enemies, the evil ones and those who oppose his will. So he's either quoting Hebrews or he wrote Hebrews. Yeah. ⁓ I will say it's a pretty it's a pretty convincing case there because he it sounds very much like that Hebrews 1 through 4 ⁓ section. ⁓ the the citation of Psalm 2, ⁓ the citation of is that what is that, Psalm 110? ⁓ Yes, Hebrews Hebrews 1 and ⁓ Psalm 110. ⁓ it seems Remarkably similar for someone who either is unfamiliar with Hebrews, because I don't know when Hebrews was written. ⁓ or somebody who wrote. It's up for debate. It's up for debate. Yes. ⁓ we know its reception is in the second century. Yeah. I still think it was Paul. Because the confession says it was Paul. But there's I think there's a lot of credence to the idea that maybe Clement wrote Hebrews, given the th what he's saying here in this this chapter in particular. And Yeah, it for me it's just a personal thing. I ⁓ I love the idea that Clement made it into holy scripture. Yeah. He's he's such a ⁓ a wonderful pastor of the church. ⁓ elder, bishop, I would say. Bishop, presbyter, yeah. Bishop, presbyter. All of those things. Yeah, bishops slash. ⁓ yeah. All right, well then ⁓ anything else in thirty six? ⁓ nope, we'll s continue on to thirty seven. Yeah. I really enjoyed ⁓ verse three. He says, ⁓ not all Not all are prefects or military tribunes or centurions or commanders of fifty or the like, but each in his own rank carries out what is commanded by the king and the rulers. The great cannot exist without the small, nor the small without the great. And I think so clearly here Clement is emphasizing God's created hierarchy, and he is emphasizing it as a necessary means for human flourishing. Egalitarianism is destroys human flourishing. We need to recognize that God created the world in a hierarchy. He has placed certain individuals above others in this hierarchy, ⁓ and and different positions of authority, ⁓ and this is a good thing. This is not a result of the fall that the hierarchy exists. This is actually part of the created order. I mean it begin we go all the way back to the beginning. God created man first and then woman. That's why in the home we have the husband is the head And not the wife. And I recently on ⁓ Instagram was talking about how why I love Sam Gamgee from Lord of the Rings so much. And one of the reasons is because he thoroughly understands the hierarchy of the world. He understands his place in it. He understands that the elves are a higher place than him. He understands ⁓ the glory of the creation and and of nature. And he also understands his relationship with Frodo. He is Frodo's servant, and Frodo is his master. And he's not grumbling about his place. He has a deep love for his master. And it's a good thing. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. And they are great friends in within this hierarchy without destroying it. Yes. There's no flattening or or ⁓ making them equal in the egalitarian sense of the word equal. They're equal in that they're both hobbits and I guess I mean hobbits don't bear the image of God. But I mean we're stretching it a little bit. But the servant and the master are both equal in the sense that they both ⁓ carry with them the image of God. They're both made in God's image, but God has placed one higher than the other. And they're both required for the relationship. Right. ⁓ which Clement talks about in the next verse. Let us take our own body. The head is nothing without the feet. Likewise the feet are nothing without the head. Even the smallest parts of our body are necessary and useful to the whole body, but all work together and experience a mutual subjection to save the whole body. And again, that's Corinthians, right? Right there. That's another letter of Paul to the Corinthians saying the same kind of thing. It really makes you wonder if if ⁓ Clement hadn't read this letter, was he talking to Paul about the issues that Clement is facing? ⁓ I mean earlier on, obviously. Yeah. It would have to be earlier on, because Paul's been martyred at this point. Yeah. Which they talked about in the in the book. But ⁓ I mean the the interweaving of the the Pauline letters in with Clement is ⁓ quite a sight to behold because it's everywhere. Yeah. I don't think there's a I mean there's might be like seven chapters in here where you don't get a Pauline phrase or an idea there. but he's such an integral part to this. ⁓ continuing on, ⁓ therefore let our whole body be saved in Christ Jesus and let each of us be subject to his neighbor according to the gift given to him. So God has given each of us a gift, and so we must find our role within our families, within our church, within our local ⁓ community. Yes. ⁓ and that's a good thing. ⁓ he talks about the strong carrying for the weak, and then as a response to that, the weak are to respect the strong. So each gives what they are able. Right. Each gives what they are able. Yeah. And and again he's not destroying the hierarchy. He's emphasizing that hierarchy. ⁓ and ⁓ verse ⁓ is it really only verse two? Yeah. Okay, verse two. Do not let the pure in flesh boast, knowing that another is the one who provides for his self control. Yeah. ⁓ is such a good reminder for us when we feel like we are succeeding In our sanctification, when we feel like we are, hey, we're really doing a good job in our fight against this ⁓ the world, the flesh, and the devil fight against sin. It's not us, it's God. It's all God. And he continues that in diverse three, you know, we're talking about it. Therefore, let us consider, brothers, from what kind of matter we are made. Who and what we came into the world as, from what kind of grave and darkness the one who made ⁓ the one who made and the one who Created us, brought us into the world, having prepared his benefits before we were born. Therefore, having all these things from him, we ought to give thanks to him for everything, to whom be the glory forever. Amen. Yeah. We we are from the dust, so we have really nothing ever to boast about. No. This is the point of Paul, you know. Paul's like, I do nothing but glory in Christ. Yeah. You should do that too. I'm looking at you. Yeah. Continuing on, ⁓ he Clement talks about ⁓ how ignorant, stupid, uninformed people mock and treat ⁓ the Christians with contempt because they desire to exalt themselves and their thoughts. ⁓ so don't do that. I love that he's not afraid to use that kind of language. No. Ignorant, stupid, and uninformed. Yeah, ⁓ that's insulting. Absolutely. Absolutely. And in this ⁓ it's either in this chapter or in ⁓ one of the next one, ⁓ Brennan translates it as blockhead. Mm-hmm. I don't know if you caught that one. Yeah, blockheads. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, of course I don't read Greek, but I'd love to know what that Greek word is. Yeah. ⁓ so don't be that. Don't be that. Have ⁓ don't be foolish in your boasting. Have patience. Yeah. Have ⁓ humility. Love, charity, grace. Yeah. It it's almost like we've heard this before. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. Maybe in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. Yeah, and and and hopefully I've made it abundantly clearer. Clement is mainly just echoing what Paul has already said to the Corinthians. This is not anything new. No, no. It's ⁓ it's a reapplication of the same grace ⁓ given by the word. The next one that I want to talk about is in chapter forty two. Did you have anything until then? just real quick, he's just talking about ⁓ do what's been commanded of you. Offering the offerings and services should be accomplished. ⁓ and do what is lawful ⁓ to your elders. And that's that's the point of forty. ⁓ the lay person is bound to the laity's command. Yep. So don't overstep your bounds, you know. Obey the elders of your church. The lay person is bound to the elders' commands. Elders' commands. Yeah. You said laity's commands. Yeah. ⁓ so he does have a little note in there. The original sense of the word is that of someone acting in an unofficial context, the B Dag offers lay as possible gloss, but with clarification, lay as opposed to appointed officiants. Here contrasted with the old testament priesthood, but clearly in reference to this situation within the Christian community. So ⁓ yeah. So the lay person is bound to the elders' commands. That's essentially what he's saying. Yeah, and and that's also Hebrews. Right? ⁓ they they have or it's maybe it's Peter, where he says that ⁓ the elders who have been our overseers, the ones who've been put over us, ⁓ are shepherds for our soul. They they have been charged with the duty of watching over our souls and that should be a joy to them and not a burden. That is our job. As lay people in the church, neither of us are elders, neither of us are deacons, neither of us hold any kind of office in the church whatsoever. Our duty, our obligation as members of Christ's bride, members of Christ's body, is to be obedient to our pastors. Yes. That is one of our main duties as Christians. Yeah. ⁓ which brings us into forty two four more things. Go for it. This should be a sense of comfort if you are being obedient to to your elders. You should not have ecclesial anxiety. Mm-hmm. Because you are doing what God has commanded. And if they are instructing you in sin, that is not on your head. Yeah. So, ⁓ be obedient to your elders. Yeah, there's a there's a safety in recognizing that God has put them over you and God has charged you with obeying them. Yes. And obviously if they're if they are in sin, there are proper ways to go about that. ⁓ you know, you take it ⁓ you go to them in private, then if they do not listen, you take another person. Right. And then you bring the matter before the church. Yeah. That is the way Christ has commanded us to deal with issues within the church. Right. And is it it's a similar concept with wives and husbands. Absolutely. If you're if you're a a wife and you disagree with your husband, God is telling you to submit to him, even if you disagree. Yes. And recognize that the results, the the the consequences of it, yeah there's going to be things that you do have to deal with in this life. But this life is not the only thing that exists. ⁓ we answer to God and what God is going to ask wives is, did you submit to your husband? Yes. Even if you disagreed with him, did you submit to him? That that is your test. Yes or no? Did you submit to him? Not did this pan out. That falls on him. Yes. If if his business venture or his idea that he had for the home or for the family or where you guys are gonna live or whatever, did not pan out and you counseled him against it as a wife, ⁓ You still submit to him, even if you disagree with his decision, and God will hold him accountable for the results. Yeah. You will be held accountable for whether or not you obeyed your husband. Mm-hmm. The responsibility is on the husband, the guilt is on the husband. Yeah. So dudes, be aware of it. Yeah. You should be in full submission to scripture on this. Scripture, your elders, and also ⁓ you should take the counsel of your wife seriously. Absolutely. ⁓ we we this is we conflate the idea of Adam, you know, listening to his wife and that was what caused the sin, but the problem was he listened to his wife when God had said the exact opposite. Yes. He listened to his wife instead of God. Yeah. But sometimes your wife and God are saying the same thing, and you need to be making sure that you're able to recognize when that happens. Yes. And the note is that even though Eve partook of the fruit first, Adam bore the guilt. Adam bore the guilt. God addressed Adam. Him. Yes. ⁓ this is one of the reasons I like the King James, because it tells us the I'm I'm not gonna just keep jumping back on the King James every time something textual comes up, but I might. But he when he addresses Adam, he he says, Adam, where art thou? Yes. He's talking to Adam and only Adam. He's not addressing Eve. And I think sometimes when we read modern translations ⁓ that don't make the the distinctions in the numbers of persons addressed in the second person pronouns, we can kind of confuse ourselves and think that he was talking to Adam and Eve at that time, but he wasn't. He was talking to Adam as Eve's federal head. And he knew he knew full well Eve was the one who c who initially committed the sin, but Adam is the one who bears the responsibility. Yep. ⁓ continuing on to chapter forty two Chapter forty two. I have verse four as the highlight of this because I'm a Presbyterian. Yes. He says and ⁓ you know I'm I'm gonna start we're gonna start in verse one and here's Yeah, we should we should read the whole the whole chapter for this one. So th we're gonna break this up into two part portions because I want to talk about the first a little bit here. So the apostles received the gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus the Christ was sent out from God, therefore Christ is from God, and the apostles from Christ. Therefore both came forth in good order from the will of God. Therefore, having received commands and being fully convinced by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of and full of faith in the Word of God, they went forth in full assurance of the Holy Spirit, proclaiming the gospel that the kingdom of God was about to come. So right here, this breaks the idea of a falling away. There was no apostasy. There was no great apostasy after the death of the apostles. And why why is this something that stands out to you specifically, my good ex Mormon friends? Good ex Mormon friend. I you would never guess that I I was once Mormon. Just look at this face. Yeah. ⁓ I've never once thought, man, that guy looks so Mormon. Never, never. ⁓ but the LDS Church has a view of the great apostasy that after the death of the last apostle, God withdrew his priesthood power from the earth. Yeah. This speaks directly against it because ⁓ it shows that the apostles were sent forth from Christ and we're gonna get to it ⁓ that they ⁓ established ⁓ churches ⁓ with full assurance from this Holy Spirit, that proclaiming the gospel that the kingdom of God was about to come. You know, if okay if the church in the first century ⁓ knew what the Holy Spirit was And they had full assurance of it. ⁓ where did they lose it? Where did they lose it? W the Trinity? I g with the doctrine of the Trinity? Yeah, that's three hundred years later. That is not the doctrine of the LDS Church. The doctrine of the LDS Church is that they lo it it l it was lost with the death of the last apostle, which was John on Patmos. And why? Why do they say that? ⁓ because it's required for a restoration. Okay. ⁓ you know, you can dig into the history of the ⁓ priesthood restoration, you know, and that whole farce. ⁓ it didn't exist until like eighteen thirty four. ⁓ it wasn't fully developed until eighteen thirty four. Yeah. But ⁓ in order for there to be a restoration, there has to be an apostasy and so that's what the churches tied it to. Okay. ⁓ they don't tie it to new doctrine ⁓ being true introduced into the church as they would claim like the Trinity is. Yeah. We would see the Trinity as an articulation of the previous doctrine that scripture revealed. ⁓ 'cause scripture is a progressive revelation document. It doesn't it the Bible did not fall into the hands of the first century church. No, it was progressively revealed. so this right here shows that the first century church had full assurance in the Spirit. Yeah. That as they went out preaching and teaching, that ⁓ God was with them. Yeah. So ⁓ there's that first. That was how they understood that's how they understood it. And you can even go ⁓ like ⁓ Irenaeus speaks about it, Ignatius talks about it, ⁓ Eusebius talks about it, ⁓ all like all of the historian Jerome talks about it, all of the historians of the church recognize that there was not a ⁓ there was not a loss of anything. Yeah. It continues. It continues. It continued faithfully. Yep. Yeah. So ⁓ there's that little bit there. ⁓ to verse four. Do you want to read this? 'Cause I know you love this. I do love this. He says he says, ⁓ therefore, preaching among regions and cities, they appointed their first fruits, testing them by the Spirit to be bishops and deacons of the future believers. And this is nothing new, for much time since then has been written about bishops and deacons. For somewhere the scripture says as follows, I will appoint their bishops in righteousness And they're deacons in faith. And of course I hit the microphone right at the at the crux of the argument. But that's that's ⁓ Isaiah sixty verse seventeen. So why is this important? This is important to me, ⁓ as a Presbyterian, because I'm seeing quite clearly two offices bishops and deacons. Yeah. Bishop meaning overseer, deacon meaning servant, ⁓ no mention of elder whatsoever. The issue as a Presbyterian, presbyter. It means elder, is in the New Testament, there's like three, maybe four instances of the word bishop or overseer in the entirety of the New Testament. Yeah. ⁓ elder occurs way more frequently. Yeah. And I think the reason for this is because bishop and presbyter are the same. And as as we've already cited, Jerome agrees. Jerome says the bishop and the presbyter were the same office, one denoting age, elder denoting age. But for purposes of unity, one was elevated above the other. Bishop was elevated above elder, because an overseer ⁓ seemed to eventually carry a different weight. So one of the elders in the church was elevated to be the primary bishop, the primary overseer, which then led to the episcopal structure that we see ⁓ in Rome, in the Anglican Church and in the Orthodox Church. Yeah. but again there in Clement is only two offices, bishop and deacon. And the same is also true in the Didic. There's only bishop and deacon. And I'm the thing I find most interesting about this is that he sees it as fulfillment of prophecy. Yeah. And he only sees two offices there. Right. So he either misinterprets the prophecy, mm hmm, which would be very strange if he's the bishop of Rome. Right. If he is the Pope. The fourth Pope. Yeah. It'd be very strange for that to happen. Right. or he only sees two offices. Yeah. And this is ⁓ even Canon and Creed did a r amazing video recently about ⁓ apostolic succession among Protestants. And so he ⁓ let me pull this up. So this is from Ambrosiaster. ⁓ what a name. What a name. In his commentary on Ephesians. It's a new baby name. Ambrosiaster, Athenagoras. Yes, we're getting ⁓ these are way better than the Utah names. Way better. my goodness. ⁓ so this is Ambrosiaster in his commentary on Ephesians. The writings of the apostle do not in ⁓ do not agree entirely with the episcopal hierarchy, which is now in the church, because they were written at the very beginning. He even calls Timothy, whom he himself made a presbyter, the bishop, because first presbyters were being called bishops because when a bishop passed away, a presbyter succeeded him. In Egypt, presbyters do ev ⁓ even do confirm that if an ⁓ if the bishop is absent, but because the presbyters who followed be ⁓ begun to be found unworthy to hold primacies, upon some reflection the rule was changed. A merit, not a rank, should be ⁓ should make one a bishop by judgment of many priests. So ⁓ this fills in very nicely with Jerome's view that there was many ⁓ schisms happening, there was much ⁓ controversy happening, so the priests ⁓ or the presbyters would get together and they would elect a bishop for purposes of unity. ⁓ and there's tons and tons of these ⁓ quotes. ⁓ you have ⁓ Anselm ⁓ in his commentary on Philippians one one, he writes to all the saints who are in ⁓ Philippi, that is to all the faithful, along with bishops and deacons, that is, with the lesser and greater leaders. Bishops here refer to presbyters according to his custom. ⁓ so there were not several bishops in one city, nor did he ad omit the presbyters to descend to the mention of deacons, but he clarifies the dignity and excellence of presbyters by manifesting that those who are presbyters are also bishops. Yeah. ⁓ and I think you you when you quoted ⁓ Gosh, what was the first guy? S Ambrosiaster or Sullivan. When you quoted him, ⁓ maybe it was Sullivan, but he says in he he says the New Testament teaches us. Right. So the bishop and the elder are the same thing. ⁓ Acts chapter twenty, fantastic passage for it. I don't know if you can see it in my Bible right there. I have ⁓ underlined ⁓ circled, and I don't know if if you guys can see it there. Maybe I should have the right camera on. Maybe not. I don't know. But anyway, the point is verse 17. It says, And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church. Elder theirs, Presbyter. And then he addresses them. We go to verse twenty eight, and the reason I have it like that is because they're directly parallel on the different sides of the pages here. ⁓ and he says to them ⁓ take heed therefore unto yourselves and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, bishops, to feed the church of God. Which he hath purchased with his own blood. So two things of note there. The elders of the church are the bishops of the church. He calls all the elders in Ephesus and says, The Holy Ghost has made you bishops. Yes. To feed the Church of God, which God hath purchased with his own blood. So we have the hypostatic union, we have the blood of God, the death of God. We can say God died on the cross because ⁓ Christ is truly God. ⁓ that's a different subject. But my point here in addressing this is in Paul's view, bishop and elder are the same thing because he calls the elders and t and says to them, You are overseers, you are the bishops of the church. The the flock of God has been given to you for the watching over, for watching over their souls, as we quoted earlier in Hebrews or Peter, I don't remember which one it is. But that that the reason that that's so important is because we don't need to have a separate third office of bishop, which is foreign to Clement, which is foreign to pa foreign to Paul, in order to have valid jurisdiction or valid a valid Eucharist. No. So many of the times you hear from the Anglicans and ⁓ the Cat the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox, Protestants don't have a valid Eucharist because we don't have valid bishops. In Paul's estimation, elders are bishops. And Isidore of Seville ⁓ echoes this specifically in his ⁓ De Ecclesiasticus ⁓ Ophicus My goodness, I'm doing great at pronouncing words tonight. ⁓ this is Book Two, Chapter eight. Presbyters are interpreted as elders because the Greeks call those older in age presbyters, for to them as bishops, the dispensation of the mysteries of God has been entrusted. They preside over the church of Christ and share with the bishops in the preparation of the divine body and blood. So the presbyters and bishops are both preparing the Eucharist. as well as in the teaching of the people and in the duty of preaching, but in the ordination and consecration of clerics has been reserved solely for the high priest, so that the discipline of the church, being claimed by many, does not disrupt the harmony or generate scandals. This is talking about what Jerome saying specifically. Then he goes on to speak of Paul. For the Apostle Paul affirms that the same presbyters as true pe priests are included under the name of bishops. Hence, in his writing to Timothy about the ordination of bishops and deacons, he says nothing explicitly about presbyters, because he includes them under the name of bishops. Yeah. Because they are the same thing. Office. The same office. ⁓ and this is again to your point earlier about ⁓ if the elders are our overseers, if the elders are the ones that God has given charge ⁓ over our souls too, this should fight pretty Pretty violently against our ecclesiastical anxiety. This should put it to death. ⁓ God has given you people to watch over you. Submit to them. Yes. If they are faithful Christians, if they are doing their duties as elders and overseers, submit to them. Yeah. And this is you know, it's so good that God ha has actually given us standards to look to. You know, first Timothy, he talks about what are the qualifications of elders and deacons. Yeah. There's a bunch. There's a bunch of them. If you if you are in a church and they're preaching ⁓ correct doctrine and their elders and deacons fulfill those ⁓ those marks, you should stay in that church. Yeah. You shouldn't you shouldn't leave a church over the question of whether or not they actually have the the valid authority to give you the Eucharist. Yes. If they meet the qualifications, if they meet the qualifications. Yes. If ⁓ now do Yes and no. If they meet if if the church as a whole fits the marks of a true church, yeah. If it's a true church, you should not leave it because you ⁓ you maybe have some qualms about ⁓ or maybe you have anxiety about the church. You should not leave the church because of that. Right. Because we don't want to be seeking rest for our souls in men. No. We seek rest for our souls in Christ. Christ has given us the elders to be overseers of our souls, but we shouldn't seek ⁓ a cure affix to our anxiety over the claims of apostolic succession from the Roman Catholics. Yeah. Well, and ⁓ part of this is just ⁓ as Presbyterians we see a succession from the presbyters. We don't see it specifically from the bishops. Right. And I who was it you were quoting ⁓ it to me ⁓ one other day was I think it was Ignatius saying that the bishops are in the place of God and the presbyters are in the place of the apostles. Yes. So Apostolic succession through presbyters. Yeah. If the presbyters carry the place of the apostles, they have succeeded in the apostles' office. Yeah. ⁓ Mason over at ⁓ Biblical Understanding has a great video on that. Yeah. He's he does have a lot of great videos on a lot of things. He does. This is definitely one of them. This is definitely one of them. ⁓ so yeah, so Clement sees two offices. He doesn't see three, he doesn't see six. He sees two offices and he sees it as the fulfillment of scripture. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. All right. Well I think I think that's where we're gonna call it today. Yeah. ⁓ we we went a little long. ⁓ that's okay. I think we can start increasing the the length of these since we're only gonna be doing these every two weeks. Yeah. ⁓ so Eli, thank you for joining me tonight. Happy Thank you guys ⁓ for watching or listening. ⁓ thank you for checking out the podcast. ⁓ please give us five stars on Apple Podcasts and I'm probably gonna be starting a ⁓ buy me a coffee or something like that to Put together a little bit of funds to get a better air conditioner so we're not sweating to death in here. That would be great. ⁓ get some better equipment so that things look better, sound better for you guys. So ⁓ if you if you would be so inclined, please give that a visit. Maybe throw me a few bones and we can start making things ⁓ a little better for for the production quality. Anyway, thank you guys for watching. also comment. I think commenting on podcasts helps, right? I've heard it does. Yeah. I don't know how algorithms work at all. I'm not a math guy. No. I'm more of a language guy. Well, I I think goes pretty much like this, whichever one has most ⁓ interactions in the shortest period of time tends to get boosted to the front. So ⁓ yeah, comment. 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