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Tanita Maddox on What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God · Future Christian

• 0:00
  Loren Richmond Jr (00:42) Welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. Today, Lauren Richmond Jr. is in conversation with Tanita Tuola-Maddox. Tanita is the National Director for Generational Impact for Young Life and serves as an Associate Regional Director in the Mountain West Young Life Region. With an expertise in contextualizing the gospel for Gen Z, Tanita has been featured on the Holy Post podcast and has been published in the Great Commission Research Journal
• 0:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (01:58) welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. My name is Loren Richmond Jr. and I am pleased to be joined today by Tanita Maddox. Hello and welcome to the show.
• 0:10
  Tanita Maddox (02:06) Thanks for having me today.
• 0:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (02:08) Yeah, looking forward to this conversation. We've been trying to make this work for a little while and yeah, grateful we could finally connect here. So fingers crossed that there's no crazy weather or snow storms or, you know, ice storms or whatever. And we'll record it without, without a interruption. We'll see. My dogs will probably sneak up and want some attention, but we'll make the best of it.
• 0:20
  Tanita Maddox (02:13) months.
• 0:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (02:34) Share if you would just a little bit about your background, your faith journey, what that's looked like in the past and what that looks like today.
• 0:30
  Tanita Maddox (02:40) Well, I am a second generation young life kid, meaning my dad had a young life leader, met the Lord through young life. And then I got to grow up in a Christian home because of that. And young life ended up being the place where my faith became alive, where it got its legs, where I saw my friends meet the Lord and am still involved today because it's the place where I see people move from death to life right in front of my eyes. And it happens to the place where Jesus has taught me the most about who he is and
• 0:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (03:14) Awesome. Awesome. In your work with youth, I'm curious, how do you, I usually ask folks about spiritual practice, but I'm curious, like, how do you coach youth or mentor youth, disciple youth around spiritual practices these days?
• 0:40
  Tanita Maddox (03:32) in very, very concrete terms. So I think we've taken for granted that a lot of these ideas, like even just like, hey, give it to God or just forgive them. forgiveness, that's an abstract idea. And we're in a, right, most of our young people have grown up in what's called a post-Christian culture. There is no context for what these things mean. So we go down very, very practical, very concrete. So even as we're teaching our high school students where I lead how to...
• 0:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (03:41) Right, right, right.
• 0:50
  Tanita Maddox (04:00) like we have, give them prompts on what, how do you pray for your friends? How do you pray for kids at your school? And we'll give them actual prompts so it can get their brain going. And what does it look like to pray for somebody else?
• 0:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (04:13) Yeah, I'm glad you're talking about that. I'm glad you're hinting at that because we'll talk. I'm looking forward to talking more about that. Anything else you want to share about spiritual practices for yourself that you find meaningful either?
• 1:00
  Tanita Maddox (04:26) you know, I'm a mom, I'm a working mom. And so the spiritual practices have been expressed in so many different ways from when I was single and had all the time to myself to be married with no kids. And again, having quiet in my house to having newborns to today. And I'm just grateful that there's actually not one or two spiritual practices to engage with, but many. And I would say Richard J. Foster's Celebration of Discipline. Really, I read that when I was in college and continued to go back to it to pull out
• 1:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (05:00) Yeah, that's, that's good. Thanks for sharing that. Well, we're here to talk with Tanita about her book, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. And I've got to give a shout out off the top here to my Canadian listeners and Canadian co-host who would say, Martha, who would say Gen Zed. But down here in the States, we call it Gen Z. But let's talk, I mean, there's so much conversation right now about Gen Z and their faith, about quiet revivals or, or, or not happening.
• 1:10
  Tanita Maddox (05:48) Well, if you use the birth years of 1997 to 2012, those are widely accepted birth years for Gen Z or Gen Zed. And I wouldn't say not just in the US, but globally, they're using those years to talk about who Gen Z is. They're described as digital natives, so access to smart and interactive technology from a very young age, tablets, smartphones.
• 1:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (05:57) Mm-hmm.
• 1:20
  Tanita Maddox (06:11) That has been a part of their life from young age. They're used to that world. They're very comfortable in that world. They understand that it has its own culture, but it's not separate from real life. The digital life and the physical world blend together for them. And then we've seen globally also that with this generation, as they've gotten older, they brought or what came with them was a wave of mental health difficulties and challenges that we are still trying to figure out and is also bleeding into the generation after them.
• 1:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (06:42) Yeah, yeah.
• 1:30
  Tanita Maddox (07:09) I know. Yeah, that's a wow. When I dove in
• 1:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (07:21) Hmm.
• 1:40
  Tanita Maddox (07:39) What a misleading headline. You just said that they're the most religious and what it really was, was a very flat question of do you believe in God? And who knows what God they're talking about when they say yes to that. So I appreciate that ⁓ David Kinnaman out of Barna has said, hey, we've seen engagement with the Bible, but it's yet to be said if they're believing what they're reading. We know they're reading it. We don't know if they're believing it. So
• 1:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (07:50) Right, right.
• 1:50
  Tanita Maddox (08:06) All that's kind of swirling in the mix. And when people say, but what do you see? You're like actually with high school students. Like, what do you see? And I say, look, we are still having a barrier of very, very low trust. We're in a low trust culture. They do not trust adults. They don't trust institutions. So we have to, we are still in that space where we have to move past that and earn trust before we can even have those conversations.
• 1:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (08:19) Yeah.
• 2:00
  Tanita Maddox (08:56) Yeah, I think we've all been tested by a young person in life where they kind of feel you out, like they might say something to see if it will shock you, right? Or if you will continue to like them after they say something, you know, we watch them kind of, they...
• 2:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (09:09) I like my daughter
• 2:10
  Tanita Maddox (09:12) Yeah, no, our kids,
• 2:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (09:41) Mm-hmm.
• 2:20
  Tanita Maddox (09:41) They're
• 2:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (09:57) Yeah.
• 2:30
  Tanita Maddox (10:42) Yeah, and this is really mostly cultural apologetics, right? It's understanding what is the culture asking and how does God interact with those questions? How does the gospel answer the questions within that culture? So, you know, for example, I'd say this, like one of questions that we start off in the book is, is God good? Which is a timeless question, right? Timeless. I mean, and you're not probably not going to hear young person say that. It'll be a rephrase like,
• 2:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (10:59) Yeah. Timeless,
• 2:40
  Tanita Maddox (11:06) Why would God let this happen? Why did God do this? know, it's the old, do bad things happen to good people question, you know? And I think it's a mistake if we automatically go, well, I answered that. I asked that question and I found an answer. I'll just give the answer that was good for me, you know, instead of saying, where's the question coming from, from our Gen Zers? What lens are they asking it through? And with the high rates of loneliness, anxiety, depression,
• 2:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (11:13) Right, right.
• 2:50
  Tanita Maddox (11:35) Suicidal ideation, suicide itself, like all those things are coming. Then as you can imagine as young person that when they're saying, man, is God good? Or like, I am scared. I am alone. I don't know what's going on. Does God even know what's happening to me? Does he see what I'm dealing with? Will he do anything about it? And that becomes a question is a pain question through how they're experiencing pain in their
• 2:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (12:07) Yeah. And think this is one of the most interesting things is I think about at least like the cultural scripts that we've utilized. And I use a big we here, Christendom, Christianity in the last 80 years to evangelize. Like I just gave a presentation at a church last week on this and I was talking about how like when I was very early, ⁓ long time ago, right? Long time ago, in college.
• 3:00
  Tanita Maddox (13:39) There's probably never stories you've heard or people listening to experience where someone's saying you don't accept me and you're like, no, I do accept you. and and.
• 3:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (14:19) Mm-hmm.
• 3:10
  Tanita Maddox (14:53) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
• 3:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (15:31) Right.
• 3:20
  Tanita Maddox (15:32) And but the idea of how does how does this young person how to make them feel accepted and belong like they belong in my world? Is it that's a different space, right? There's a lot of books on this and I've read a lot of content on it that something one even said belonging is if you know my name and You're excited when you see me and you notice when I'm not there Which I was like, I like that But I like that but I've also seen when you when you're excited to see me is wonderful, right when you're excited to see me
• 3:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (15:54) Hmm.
• 3:30
  Tanita Maddox (16:02) We all love that. love when you walk in the door and someone's, Loren, Loren's here! Now the party can start. You're here. Okay, sit down. Tell me everything about your day today. You know, that is...
• 3:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (16:15) First of all,
• 3:40
  Tanita Maddox (16:20) ⁓ I'd
• 3:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (16:24) You
• 3:50
  Tanita Maddox (16:48) well, I mean, it's that's constant. We're going to be curious about our young people. And, you know, and I think the Bible does a great job of showing this what this looks like, that Jesus asked questions, that he listened to people, that he went into their worlds, that he went into places that most people would have looked at and said, why are you going there? Don't you know who hangs out there? ⁓
• 3:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (17:31) Yeah. I want to read a quote you have in your book about being a neighbor as an alternative or Christian alternative to Gen Z values. You write, being a neighbor is loving others, which is a form of acceptance. Love facilitates and cultivates belonging. Love is more powerful than acceptance. It makes a way for acceptance, but does not require agreement. And love can make us want to change for the better. Jesus instructs us to love our neighbors in the same way.
• 4:00
  Tanita Maddox (18:18) Yeah, I mean, if every person reflects the image of God, that means every generation and every culture reflects some aspect of the image of God. And we all do reflect distortions. Let's be clear, there is sin in the world. But it's fun to get to look at our next generation or just the young person in front of you and praying, Lord, where are they reflecting your image that I can call it out and draw it out and actually help better reflect your image in the world?
• 4:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (18:25) Yeah.
• 4:10
  Tanita Maddox (19:43) Mm-hmm.
• 4:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (19:44) So I think, I think Gen Z, if I'm understanding you correctly, gets at an important aspect of broadening this faith between just me and Jesus. Talk more about what you think that looks like though, in a local church setting or ministry setting.
• 4:20
  Tanita Maddox (19:57) Yeah, and I really appreciate this about Gen Z that they're like, well, why does it matter in the world? Like what difference does following Jesus or does God make in what's happening in the world around us? And yeah, Kristen Smith, not alone in saying that, Almeida Wright has a book on the spiritual lives of young African-Americans. And she says, he that the Sunday school curriculum for black churches has focused on personal relationship with Jesus. And that doesn't explain.
• 4:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (20:34) Yeah.
• 4:30
  Tanita Maddox (20:51) with them. So the church can offer opportunities where we're saying, hey, where do we want to be neighbors? And I think that should be a group conversation. I don't think it's a group, like a small people in the room saying, we're going to go do the soup kitchen next week. But a bunch of people saying, hey, what's important to you? Because the Lord's speaking to all of us and to say what, and we're all differently gifted. And what if the things that we took on as a church reflected those different gifts of the people that are.
• 4:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (21:05) Yeah, yeah.
• 4:40
  Tanita Maddox (21:18) that are in there. And so if you do have people that want to do, you know, conservation in their local community or help with the animal shelter or work at the gospel rescue mission with those who are homeless or volunteer with the preschools that need extra hands, you know, we have lots of things. that ultimately what we're coaching people is like, this should be an expression.
• 4:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (21:57) Yeah, I love that you bring in that, that foundational aspect of it, because I think that's something that I've seen mistaken or I don't know if that's the right word of saying it, but not emphasized perhaps is another way of saying it where, because I think when, our, when our actions are not rooted in, right, our faith, then it becomes really easy to, to forget why we're doing something.
• 4:50
  Tanita Maddox (22:40) Yeah, it cost you something.
• 4:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (22:42) How do you shift that mindset in young people when they're trained? hey, like if it feels good, do it. If it doesn't feel good, like, like it's wrong. Like it's almost inverse, right? Of what Christianity, what I'm, preaching here now. I'm sorry. I'm ranting. I'm soap boxing. This is supposed to be your time.
• 5:00
  Tanita Maddox (23:02) No, but this is good because I think we can't assume that our next generation has that value in their brain. And so we do have to unpack it. they may have it in their heart as far as like, do you want to stay the same person forever? No. Would you like to grow? Yes. You know, do you want to do things like harder things than you're doing right now? What do you want to be able to do? What are the characteristics you would like to be known for?
• 5:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (23:11) Yes.
• 5:10
  Tanita Maddox (23:30) You know, they have all this stuff and then the lie that we uncover for them is that our world has told them, it's not them coming up with it, the world has told them, if it hurts, if it ⁓ costs you, if you have to give up something to do it, whether it's sleep or rest or, you know.
• 5:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (23:39) Mm-hmm.
• 5:20
  Tanita Maddox (23:49) doing the hobby you wanted to do or whatever it is, like if it costs you something, then you shouldn't do it, that's unfair. And the reality is that's the only way that community exists, that's the only way relationships exist and helping them process through those pieces of going, of course it costs something. Like if we have a whole world that says, you come to me because I'm not gonna go to you, then no one's going to each other, no one's going anywhere.
• 5:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (23:56) Hmm.
• 5:30
  Tanita Maddox (24:27) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's not working turns out. We have the highest rates of loneliness in history And so we give again, it's it's it's baby steps It's it's saying hey this week do something that you don't that you're like too tired and kind of don't want to do, you know
• 5:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (24:30) No, I don't think so. Yeah.
• 5:40
  Tanita Maddox (24:46) within reason, all right, we're talking about, we're not talking about abusive situations and things like that, but like, they take the extra, you know, snack to school and find someone to give it to, you know, the show up for someone's game and cheer for them when you are kind of too tired to, you know, those kinds of things, like where go, what if you just did that once a week and saw what that was like? Did you ever do sports, Loren? Did you ever, yeah, what was your, what was your sport of choice?
• 5:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (24:48) Right, right, right, right.
• 5:50
  Tanita Maddox (25:17) Okay, those are highly aerobic, right? Like those workouts hurt, those conditioning workouts, everything hurts. so. No, but you know what, when we talk about that and say, if my coach never pushed me to a place where the workout.
• 5:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (25:20) Right, right.
• 6:00
  Tanita Maddox (25:40) like it hurt my lungs or my muscles were sore the next day or I was they said don't go do one more rep of this and you're like I cannot move anymore but you get up and you go do it one more time if they never did those things we would never progress as an athlete actually our muscles will probably start to become weaker and weaker over time because we never did anything that made them stronger I say we are just like that our brains are like that our emotions are like that our grit is like that so
• 6:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (25:43) Mm-hmm.
• 6:10
  Tanita Maddox (26:10) We have to lean into the things that push us just a little further than where we would have ever been before.
• 6:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (26:16) So I just use this metaphor in another conversation and I, I hear the same thing. Like, this is what I feel like for our, our current cultural context that in many ways we are like missionaries to the culture. And I'm, and I know like that word has baggage for, for, for good reason in some contexts, right? But do you, do you see like, do you think that metaphor makes sense when we think about the work we're trying to do within
• 6:20
  Tanita Maddox (26:37) Mm-hmm.
• 6:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (26:46) a de-Christianized culture, especially among young people.
• 6:30
  Tanita Maddox (26:51) Yeah, I mean, it's the old, you know, you're not a citizen of this world. You're a citizen of heaven. As soon as you follow Jesus Christ, as soon as you give your life over or become, you know, any any of the verbiage we want to use to express the mystery of becoming a follower of God. Once you do that, your citizenship changes. This is not your home anymore. And so it's always going to feel a little uncomfortable. It's always going to push on you a little bit funny ways. You're never going to feel like totally belong here.
• 6:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (26:57) Yeah. Yeah.
• 6:40
  Tanita Maddox (27:20) And that's how it's supposed to be.
• 6:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (27:22) Yeah. I, I want to ask this earlier, but I need to, I need to ask this now so I don't forget, but you, you hinted at this already, this idea that like, we can, we want to blame Gen Z. We want to blame Gen Z for all their problems. And I remember like thinking about this when I think we're, we're around the same ilk, right? generationally, like when we were young and everyone was blaming like Gen X or boomers for like
• 6:50
  Tanita Maddox (28:06) Yeah, and it's a combination of things, know, like, so one of the things, one of the values that's very high for Gen Z, one of their highest values is the value of safety. And people often ask me like, where did that come from? And I said, we raised them with it. They didn't come up with it on their own. They'd been told to be safe their entire lives by mostly their Gen X parents who grew up in a time when we saw kids faces on milk cartons and stranger danger became a thing. And all of a sudden the narrative was
• 6:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (28:14) Mm-hmm.
• 7:00
  Tanita Maddox (28:35) people want to hurt kids. So now take that group of people and make them parents. And what do we want to do? We don't want them to have to deal with the things that we did. Yeah, I'm a Gen Xer. Yeah, we do like to brag about how tough we were and all these things. But at end of the day, I mean, you know, the term latchkey kid was a term thrown around in the 80s. We don't use that term anymore, but that was like, that kid, you know, they don't have parents home, you know, for them.
• 7:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (28:40) Safety.
• 7:10
  Tanita Maddox (29:01) or whatever things we wanted to throw that were around in the 80s. We wanted to protect our kids from experiencing the different emotional things that we experienced, the physical danger we experienced, and it's gone on beyond that. And so they were really raised with that. And then there's just stuff like, it's not, know, we didn't, we did not know what smartphones were going to do. We didn't know what social media was going to do.
• 7:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (29:39) Well, this brings to mind, and I'm sure you're familiar with, right? Jonathan Haidt book, Jonathan Haidt's book, the anxious generation. And when I read that book, certainly like all the things about like, ⁓ we need to have. Speaking of safety, we probably need to have more safety around content moderation and device usage and all that. But the thing that I felt was really lacking and I'm curious your thoughts here on it. Like it felt like to me, like the, he, he couldn't quite recognize like,
• 7:20
  Tanita Maddox (29:44) Mm-hmm.
• 7:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (30:10) that I think what's really like the hole in people, what they're trying to fill with smartphones, with social media is like meaning and purpose. certainly I believe like God, do you like when you think about interacting with parents, not just the young people, but parents, do you see that like, I don't want to say mistake, but misunderstanding, I'm not sure which word to say, like this idea that like, if I can just control everything or
• 7:30
  Tanita Maddox (30:43) Yeah, I don't know if I run into that as much. I mean, that's probably a specific demographic of parent that is wrestling with those specific ideas. What there is happening right now is a shift in parenting style. So the parents of Jen Alpha who witnessed what went on with Jen Z, where we tried to keep Jen Z so safe that they weren't in the physical world and yet not in the online world. ⁓ And saw all the results that happened.
• 7:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (30:53) Yeah.
• 7:40
  Tanita Maddox (31:12) The research is starting to come out that Gen Alpha parents are having these conversations much earlier. So to say, well, I can't really protect them from everything. So how do I prepare them? Which is more like what Gen Xers kind of grew up with, which is, hey, like, we can't keep you safe. The world's not safe. So let me show you how to engage with it so that you are at least prepared for it. So much earlier conversations about.
• 7:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (31:30) Yeah.
• 7:50
  Tanita Maddox (31:36) gun violence, internet safety, mental health, things like pornography. They're being talked about in a much younger age by parents these days.
• 7:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (31:45) Yeah. I want to talk just generally about youth ministry in general for a moment, if I may. Like one thing that I've noticed and I'm curious, like it seems like, and again, this is purely anecdotal for my part, that it seems like in church youth groups, the middle schoolers are there, but the high schoolers, like we, I was trained in youth ministry long time ago, right? And this, there's this idea, like the real challenges was once they graduate from high school, keeping them engaged in college.
• 8:00
  Tanita Maddox (32:26) You know, there's some reports that say that from different, different research places that they are. ⁓ actually at younger ages, they're starting to depart the church. But again, since my context is primarily outreach, ministering real late in practice, you know, I don't get to see those things as much. The reports that are out there from places like, you know, pre-pure research and springtime and other research places have shown that, ⁓ younger people leaving the church at a younger age.
• 8:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (33:04) Fair enough, fair enough. Let me ask this, if you were in charge of like a youth ministry at a church and your real focus was outreach, like what are like two, one or two, three things you would start doing immediately? What are a couple of things you'd stop doing?
• 8:10
  Tanita Maddox (33:12) Mm-hmm.
• 8:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (33:36) ⁓ wow.
• 8:20
  Tanita Maddox (33:40) I know he said, you're not actually teaching us how to share my faith. Like I want to be taught on how to have a conversation with my friend. Like what should I ask them? What am I supposed to share? What is the gospel and how can I explain it? You know, and I was like, what an incredible like request and so easy to meet actually to say, yeah, let me show you how to actually share the gospel with your friends. And I'd start with first, ⁓ can you share your testimony? Like if someone asked you,
• 8:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (33:59) Yeah, yeah.
• 8:30
  Tanita Maddox (34:09) Why do you follow God? Or even just like, why are you a positive person? You don't have to actually wait for a very God specific question. Can you share your testimony or your life story or journey in three to four sentences? Can you do that? And I would start having our young people practice sharing their own story, write it down, practice with one another, share it with one another. Cause I think there's plenty of kids who are in different youth ministries that don't know each other's stories. They don't know why each other.
• 8:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (34:29) Hmm. Yes.
• 8:40
  Tanita Maddox (34:39) are following Jesus and start there. I think the reminder that I'm going to get weepy on this. Jesus changes our lives, gets lost in that. And when they're reminded that there's they've got a whole bunch of hurting peers who would die to be where they are, that it becomes less scary to think I'm imposing my religious belief on someone and instead thinking I am offering a lifeline to someone who's desperately looking for.
• 8:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (34:48) Mm-hmm.
• 8:50
  Tanita Maddox (35:17) Oh gosh, I feel like that's such a wide net there. You know when someone asks you a question, your brain, it's like when someone says, can I pray for you? And your brain ultimately floods with so many things that you can't even get your brain set. There's so many things. would churches stop doing? Stop isolating our adolescents in another room and not talking to them.
• 8:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (35:46) Love it. Good.
• 9:00
  Tanita Maddox (35:50) Is that too much?
• 9:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (35:52) No, I think that's great. I think that's great.
• 9:10
  Tanita Maddox (36:02) You know, I think that our young people are looking for authentic, they're looking for authenticity. They've told us this a number of times, a number of times. And sometimes, you know, I wonder about things like when we're worshiping, you know, how, like, and if the, if the worship team looks like they're half asleep and straight faced and you're like, I can't tell if you're excited to be here or not. Like, I can't tell if you believe what, what's going on.
• 9:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (36:24) Sure, sure.
• 9:20
  Tanita Maddox (36:29) ⁓ So I think there's a piece of like really going here we do do do kids believe dear young people believe that what we're that we believe what we're singing about and here's the here's the silliest dumbest one right I just think name tags are helpful I just think are I think name tags are helpful I think see you know I think we've got greeters I love our greeters
• 9:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (36:48) are or not? Okay. Okay, yes. Okay.
• 9:30
  Tanita Maddox (36:57) You know, but I'm like, you know, if there's people you see all the time and you're like, I've seen this person for three months. I do not remember their name, you know, and it stops conversation, especially for our young people. If like, if someone who is a grandma or grandpa or, you know, in their forties or thirties or whatever can see a young person with their name on their name tag, it does actually help them go up and say, Hey, hey, Warren, how's it going? You know, and it actually helps the young person feel like that they can also engage because
• 9:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (37:04) Yes.
• 9:40
  Tanita Maddox (37:26) They're not having to guess at what your name is. It sounds silly, but I feel like it works.
• 9:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (37:29) Well, I think that's something, no, it's,
• 9:50
  Tanita Maddox (38:44) It always depends on who I'm talking with about it. I think for one part, there's a number of especially young people, but a lot of our culture that do not know that some of the practices that we would consider moral and important today originated with the church, right? That they don't know that the things like hospitals or education being made available for everybody, adoption, these are things that originated in the church. And so there's a lot of that people don't know.
• 9:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (39:00) Yes.
• 10:00
  Tanita Maddox (39:13) where it came from and that's there. I think it's powerful that like you mentioned Jonathan Haidt that in his book he says, look, I'm an atheist, right? Or least he's not a practicing of any religion, goes, but faith communities are massively important for young people. They should be involved with the faith community. Having a testimony like that is like, that's incredible that this person sees that.
• 10:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (39:23) Right. Right.
• 10:10
  Tanita Maddox (39:36) There's a number of sources that talk about that being a part of a faith community does alleviate some of the things that impact mental health for young people. It's not a cure for mental health, not saying if you're a believer, you don't experience mental health difficulties, but that it actually does build some resilience within our young people, along with community and belongings and alleviating some of the loneliness that they feel. That funnily enough, as you start to look at the statistics, what comes to light?
• 10:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (39:50) Right.
• 10:20
  Tanita Maddox (40:03) God created us to know him and be in community with one another. And that, I think, is what's reflected in the statistics ultimately.
• 10:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (40:06) Hmm. Yeah.
• 10:30
  Tanita Maddox (40:36) my gosh
• 10:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (40:48) Well, it's meant to be understood as like if I had ultimate control over Christianity for one day. So think about this, like if you could call the shots for youth ministry perhaps for one day, what would one thing you would institute as if you were pope perhaps?
• 10:40
  Tanita Maddox (40:57) Mmm.
• 10:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (41:23) Yeah, yeah.
• 10:50
  Tanita Maddox (41:28) I would pray and call other people to pray specifically and desperately for our young people and for one another and for the people they don't understand and for the people they don't like to be around. ⁓ seek deeply how to see how God's image is reflected in each person, whether that just needs to be emphasized.
• 10:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (41:41) Mm-hmm.
• 11:00
  Tanita Maddox (41:57) or it's under a sea of junk that they can't even see it for themselves and we can show it to them.
• 11:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (42:07) Wow, that's good. That's good.
• 11:10
  Tanita Maddox (42:22) ⁓ You know what's interesting? This is kind of a deep hole, but I did a paper on Cyprian, St. Cyprian, like a long time ago. I know, but you know what fascinates me about him is to live in a spot where the church is being divided over persecution. And as that is happening and moves on to a different season, you have to figure out how to reconcile the Christians who lost people to martyrdom.
• 11:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (42:30) ⁓ that is a deep hole.
• 11:20
  Tanita Maddox (42:51) and the people who ⁓ somehow maybe lied about their faith or renounced it, but maybe, you know, in order to live, and you have to figure how to put them back together. And that could be really similar to some of the things we experienced today of how do you take a divided church that's deeply pained? Like there's real loss and hurt. And figure out how do you help this group of people move forward together.
• 11:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (42:58) Yes, yes, yes.
• 11:30
  Tanita Maddox (43:21) I'm
• 11:35
  Loren Richmond Jr (43:25) What will history remember from our current time and place?
• 11:40
  Tanita Maddox (43:31) I think the digital movement is a big, I think all the things that are happening digitally is a big marker because it's actually changing how the world works right now. think, you know, we talked about a little bit about Gen Z, but when we used to talk about Gen Z, we're talking about Gen Z around the world because it's the first really global, ⁓ global generation. We've never had one like this before that the same term is used everywhere. And that also there's a lot of similar characteristics and pieces.
• 11:45
  Loren Richmond Jr (43:42) Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:50
  Tanita Maddox (44:00) But some of reason this movement is happening is because of technology, because they have access to things, because they can make things happen with clicks of buttons. I think that will be part of it, will remember how technology changed kind of everything.
• 11:55
  Loren Richmond Jr (44:06) Yeah.
• 12:00
  Tanita Maddox (44:23) I hope we more and more ⁓ reflect the kingdom of heaven on earth. I think that one of the gifts of studying and practicing cultural apologetics is we're trying to do our best to share about the mysteries of God in our specific point of history and our specific culture that we're in. And it has made me look with
• 12:05
  Loren Richmond Jr (44:55) Mm-hmm.
• 12:10
  Tanita Maddox (45:13) keep trying our best to reflect the image of God and the kingdom of God on earth. That's the best that we can do.
• 12:15
  Loren Richmond Jr (45:22) These have been good answers here. It's been good answers. mean, I think, man, if we could have a day, man, the day to pray for young people and those with whom we disagree with, like, if we all committed to doing that for a day, like, holy smokes, we could get some revival out of that.
• 12:20
  Tanita Maddox (45:51) Now you can reach me through Instagram at Dr. Tanita Maddox or through my website, tanitamaddox.com. There's a bunch of free resources and you can actually reach me directly through both of those places.
• 12:25
  Loren Richmond Jr (46:03) Well, this has been a great conversation. really appreciate your ⁓ forthrightness and engagement with me. And like I said, like I feel like you've, ⁓ you know, using my name, I like that's just a great example that we can all practice. Like when we, when you call each other by name, I mean, think there's something, something biblical about that. So thank you again for your conversation. I'm glad we could make this work. We always leave someone with a word of peace. So may God's peace be with you.
• 12:30
  Tanita Maddox (46:28) and also with you.