Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Judas Priest: Album by Album [Episode 236]

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Judas Priest: Album by Album [Episode 236] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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  Speaker 1: Who We're totally booked rock and roll.
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  Speaker 2: I think I'll leave you.
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  Speaker 1: You're reading Little Hans says it's time to rock.
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  Speaker 3: And roll, roll out, I totally booked. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 3: book don Rock, the podcast for those about to read
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: and rock online at booked on rock dot com. Find
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  Speaker 3: every episode there, audio video, exclusive video segments from episodes,
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  Speaker 3: got a blog, latest rockbook releases, and a whole lot
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  Speaker 3: more at booked on rock dot com. It's the return
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  Speaker 3: of Martin pop Off. His latest book is Judas Priest
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  Speaker 3: Album by album. Martin pacee tribute to Judas Priests discography
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  Speaker 3: through a series of in depth and fascinating conversations about
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  Speaker 3: all nineteen of the legendary British heavy metal bands studio albums.
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  Speaker 3: He gathers together musicians and metal journalists who offer insights,
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  Speaker 3: opinions and anecdotes about each release. The interviewees include names
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  Speaker 3: like Slash, Marty Friedman of Megadeth, Charlie Binanti Vanthrax, Todd
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  Speaker 3: Latorre of Queen's Right, Bobby Ellsworth of Overkill and more.
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  Speaker 3: Find a playlist of Judas Priest in this episode's show notes.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome back, Martin, absolutely thanks for having me Eric, we're
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  Speaker 3: recording this on eleven eleven, which apparently is National Metal
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  Speaker 3: Day Who's more metal than Judas Priest? Right?
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  Speaker 1: And Remembrance Day up in Canada, right, which I think
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  Speaker 1: is different from when the States.
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  Speaker 3: So let's get to the book you write. Constructing this
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  Speaker 3: book was about the most fun I've ever had in
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  Speaker 3: a priest title because I got to share that wonder
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  Speaker 3: with a bunch of like minded buddies, some of them
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  Speaker 3: accomplished rock stars in their own rights. And what these
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  Speaker 3: guys have accomplished through fifty years as metal gods tell
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  Speaker 3: us what's inside the book.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: The idea here is that this is a reprisal of
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  Speaker 2: the of the great series that we did with Quarto
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  Speaker 2: Motor Books and my buddy Dennis Pernu over there, my editor,
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  Speaker 2: you know, quite a few years ago where we did
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  Speaker 2: panel books like this where I go, you know, interview
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  Speaker 2: a bunch of people on every studio album.
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  Speaker 1: And back then we did Pink Floyd, we did Queen Rush,
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  Speaker 1: AC DC, Iron Maiden, and so this is yeah, full
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  Speaker 1: color throughout, hardcover, beautiful design as usual from those guys,
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  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the the whole premise. Back when
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  Speaker 1: we started this idea was, yeah, try to get some
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  Speaker 1: rock stars in there, and then also you know some
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  Speaker 1: some good you know, some journalists buddies of mine who
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  Speaker 1: can tackle some of the things you're not gonna dare
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  Speaker 1: asking rock stars to do, Like you're not gonna say,
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  Speaker 1: go away and do your homework and we're gonna talk
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  Speaker 1: about nostrodamus and demolition, right kind of thing. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it was nice. We got Slash, which is excellent, Charlie Bonanti,
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  Speaker 1: Devin Townsend, Danko Jones, Blitz, Marty Friedman's in there. Ex
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  Speaker 1: Megadeth of course I don't I hear he doesn't like
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  Speaker 1: to be called X Megadeth, but sorry about that, Marty
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  Speaker 1: and Chris Caffrey. Yeah, a bunch of a bunch of
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  Speaker 1: cool rocker buddies and h and also, like I say,
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  Speaker 1: some some journal that I know their priest really well.
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  Speaker 1: We got Pete Pardo in there for See of Tranquility,
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  Speaker 1: of course. But yeah, so it's been a lot of
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  Speaker 1: fun doing this and going through all these priest albums
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  Speaker 1: because you know, all those rockers, I mean, there was
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  Speaker 1: no more you know, light bulb moment for if you
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  Speaker 1: were going to become say a thrash artist. In the eighties,
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  Speaker 1: there was no more light bulb important super band than
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  Speaker 1: Judas Priest, you know, starting with the great Sad Wings
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  Speaker 1: of Destiny, basically their second album.
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  Speaker 3: That's where I was going to go. How far back
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  Speaker 3: do you go as a fan.
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  Speaker 1: Of Priests, Well, I go back. I'll never forget the day.
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  Speaker 1: But it was with Sad Wings of Destiny. So I
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  Speaker 1: was thirteen, nineteen seventy six, just saw me and my
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  Speaker 1: buddies were down at the record store and you see
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  Speaker 1: this album, and I remember looking at it and thinking
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  Speaker 1: this could be a Christian rock album. You know, with
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  Speaker 1: that album cover the name Judas Priest Sad Wings of
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  Speaker 1: Destiny on the back, it almost looked like Rob Halford
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  Speaker 1: was holding up across you know, all the religious right.
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  Speaker 1: All the song titles were like super religiously sounding Victim
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  Speaker 1: of Changes, Dream or Deceiver. It was all in the
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  Speaker 1: religious writing tyrant. Everything sounded super old and medieval, right,
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  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking this could be hopefully, it could
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  Speaker 1: be good, it could be metal, but this could be
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  Speaker 1: not metal at all, even though you know, it looks
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  Speaker 1: like these guys are rocking out and they got long
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  Speaker 1: hair and stuff. But you know, who would have thought
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  Speaker 1: it would have been that incendiary and advanced and super
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  Speaker 1: heavy metal. I mean, I've always said that it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: reinvent anything. It's no new reinvention just the Iron Maidens,
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  Speaker 1: no reinvention of anything either. You know, there are a
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  Speaker 1: lot of great albums are not a reinvention. Savatage Sirens,
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  Speaker 1: Merciful Fate, Melissa. Yeah, a lot of great albums are
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  Speaker 1: just better versions of what came before. Sad Wings is
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  Speaker 1: like that as well. But I've always said that metal
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  Speaker 1: gets invented in nineteen seventy and then just a bunch
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  Speaker 1: of good metal shows up, and then and then in
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  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. I always call this the Richter blip,
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  Speaker 1: where where it improves vastly. There's just, uh, there's just
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  Speaker 1: everything's better about this. The lyrics, the vocals, the production's
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  Speaker 1: pretty good on it, and especially the riffs. Just it
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  Speaker 1: just there. There's just this uptick in in quality and uh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, intellectual value, whether that's just just straight musical
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  Speaker 1: intellectual value or or like I say, the lyrics, or
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  Speaker 1: like I say, the singing kind of thing. So so, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: metal comes out, it cruises along, uh, and then this
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  Speaker 1: is this is the first great, next, absolute masterpiece of
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  Speaker 1: a metal album. So so basically seventy to seventy six,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, my favorite album of all time
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  Speaker 1: shows up in their Sabbath sabotage and physical graffiti shows up.
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  Speaker 1: But I think from seventy it basically goes seventy and
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  Speaker 1: then seventy six is the next milestone.
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  Speaker 3: Interesting history. Did you just please think back to the
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  Speaker 3: late sixties and Rob Halford wasn't the original singer. He's
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  Speaker 3: on all the albums, or well, at least until he's
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  Speaker 3: out of the band, but he's on all the early albums.
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  Speaker 3: How and when do they form? Who's the original line?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, very much, very much. They have tons and tons
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  Speaker 1: of different people in the band. They're lie. I did
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  Speaker 1: a History in Five Songs with Martin Popoff episode on
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  Speaker 1: Judas Priest and Russia's Doppelgangers, and the interesting thing is
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  Speaker 1: that they both started in sixty nine and they both
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  Speaker 1: had their first album in seventy four, right and Rush
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  Speaker 1: had some different lineups, but not as much, but Priest
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  Speaker 1: was constantly changing. You know, there's no originals kind of thing.
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  Speaker 1: You know, KK wasn't there at the very beginning and
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  Speaker 1: you know, Glenn is a super late arrival. He's even
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  Speaker 1: later than Rob. But Rob's arriving in seventy three. I think.
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  Speaker 1: I think Glenn is arriving in I don't know, late
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  Speaker 1: seventy three or early seventy four, something like that, from
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  Speaker 1: the Flying Hat Band. But the mainstay of the band
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  Speaker 1: all through that time is al Atkins. He's the vocalist,
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  Speaker 1: the leader of the band. Through that time, they tour
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  Speaker 1: a lot up and down England, you know, famously playing
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  Speaker 1: with Budgie and all these different bands all the time,
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  Speaker 1: and they're they're writing songs. They got quite a few originals,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of you know, a lot of the Al
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  Speaker 1: Atkins writing shows up on Rock and Roller and a
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  Speaker 1: little bit on Sad Wings, right. But yeah, they have
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  Speaker 1: tons and tons of lineup changes all through that time.
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  Speaker 1: I believe they balloon even up to to the five piece,
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  Speaker 1: but I think that at some point they are a
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  Speaker 1: three piece. So yeah, they're just kind of a local
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  Speaker 1: band doing good, trying trying to get somewhere. And then
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  Speaker 1: they get this small record label and they're and they're
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  Speaker 1: off to the races. They put the two albums out
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  Speaker 1: on on Gull Records.
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  Speaker 3: With al Atkins what happened. They just weren't happy with
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  Speaker 3: the direction they were going in with him or vice versa.
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  Speaker 3: Did he leave?
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  Speaker 1: I think it's more or less of vice versa. He
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  Speaker 1: he he just got fed up with the lack of
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  Speaker 1: success of the band, and uh and just because he
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  Speaker 1: was totally the leader of the band. So he just
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  Speaker 1: basically says, I'm out, guys, you know, do what you
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  Speaker 1: want to do kind of thing.
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  Speaker 3: And what became of.
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  Speaker 1: Him in later years, he he kind of left the business,
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  Speaker 1: but in later years he had some solo albums out
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  Speaker 1: that are actually really good. So yeah, he's he's a
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  Speaker 1: good talented guy and he was always a good supporter
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  Speaker 1: of the band. Super nice guy. Yeah, did interviews and
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  Speaker 1: stuff over the years, and uh is a is a
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  Speaker 1: big part of the story.
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  Speaker 3: It's true that the name Judas Priest comes from a
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  Speaker 3: Bob Dylan song.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Ballad of Frankie what's his name and Judas
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  Speaker 1: Priest kind of thing. Yeah, it's just a weird you know,
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  Speaker 1: they just picked it up from that. I always always
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  Speaker 1: thought it was a strange name where Yeah, it's obviously
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  Speaker 1: there's a little bit of the you know, the two
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  Speaker 1: name thing. The deep Purple, and especially the Black Sabbath,
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  Speaker 1: where Black Sabbath you got the good that the evil
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  Speaker 1: and the you know, the evil and the pure, the
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  Speaker 1: black and the white in there, and Judas Priest, I
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  Speaker 1: guess kind of feels that way, Judas the Betrayer and
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  Speaker 1: all that you got priests. So, yeah, it's a it's
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  Speaker 1: a strange name, right, It's uh, it's just yeah, it's
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  Speaker 1: you don't it's it's it's two words stuck together. You know.
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  Speaker 1: One is a name, one is a descriptor. You put
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  Speaker 1: a name in front of a descriptor. I never really
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  Speaker 1: thought about it, but it's it's a funny, funny name
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  Speaker 1: of a band. And it doesn't exactly roll off the
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  Speaker 1: tongue very great, very well either. And like I say,
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  Speaker 1: I mean you you would be you know, you wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: be remissed to just think it's going to be like
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  Speaker 1: a Christian rock band of some sort.
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  Speaker 3: What does that first Priest album, Rock and ROLLA from
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  Speaker 3: seventy four sound like. And what was the consensus of
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  Speaker 3: the people that you spoke with in the book, Because
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: you draw comparisons to Finn Lizzie on a few tracks,
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  Speaker 3: I thought I heard maybe a deep purple type of sound.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the charges. It's uh, Pete Pardo said
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  Speaker 1: this and I agree, or I said it and he agreed.
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  Speaker 1: I can't remember. But the fact of the matter is,
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  Speaker 1: if Judas Priest never made another album after Rock Rolla,
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  Speaker 1: that would have been considered one of those great lost
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  Speaker 1: heavy metal classics. Right. But because everything that came after
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  Speaker 1: was just such a vast improvement, you know, we tend
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: to forget this record. But you know, Cake in Case
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: says something really interesting about it. He calls it progressive blues.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: He says, we were looking for a sound that nobody had.
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  Speaker 1: Uh he he kind of really is one of the
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  Speaker 1: first guys that kind of nails this, this greatness of
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  Speaker 1: Judas Priest in articulates and and essentially he he he said, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it was like a progressive version of the blues. But
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  Speaker 1: it's essentially early heavy metal. You know, I I I
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  Speaker 1: often liken it to basically being like a demo version
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  Speaker 1: of Sad Wings of Destiny. It's not. It's not as
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  Speaker 1: bad as the band thinks it is. I don't even
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  Speaker 1: think it's recorded as the band thinks it is. They
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: never liked the recording and thus we've got this, uh,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: this new meticulously, meticulously remixed version of it, which is
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  Speaker 1: really cool. Tom Allen was involved with that. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think it's a It's a good quality, professional sounding
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  Speaker 1: heavy metal album, especially for a baby band on a budget.
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  Speaker 1: It is very capable. I think it's much more capable
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  Speaker 1: than you know, the much lauded Bang and Sir Lord
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  Speaker 1: Baltimore type records that here. Even Captain Beyond sounds dated.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't sound particularly dated for seventy four. It's kind
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  Speaker 1: of moving ahead. It's if anything, it's you know, all
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  Speaker 1: that confusion with the little song parts and stuff. It
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  Speaker 1: sounds a little bit we don't know what direction we
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  Speaker 1: want to go in, so it's a little bit proggy
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  Speaker 1: and it's a little bit heavy at the same time.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: You say quote. As far as I'm concerned, the band's
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  Speaker 3: run of late seventies records from Sad Wings of Destiny
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: to Killing Machine is the best example in rock history
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  Speaker 3: where a band was operating so far ahead of anybody else.
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  Speaker 3: Objectively speaking, only one band comes close, and that's Queen.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I totally still believe that to this day, that
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  Speaker 1: that is just this this stroke, this run of genius
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  Speaker 1: that you get out of those two bands, and I
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  Speaker 1: just think the riffs were so ahead of everything else.
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  Speaker 1: The performance is the complexity the parts that they put in.
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  Speaker 1: You know something that I believe it's sh Is it
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  Speaker 1: Sean Kelly or is it in Black? Sugar points out,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I always always forget who said this Priest is really, really,
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  Speaker 1: really good at doing pre choruses, and so their pre
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  Speaker 1: choruses were good, their breaks were good. They often changed
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  Speaker 1: up the music they were doing. Uh, just just the
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  Speaker 1: the ideas that they had packed into those albums like
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Stained Class and Killing Machine and Sin after Sin, where
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: you know it's progressive metal too, right, Rush gets the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: credit for inventing progressive metal. Well, Priest Is a Priest
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: is more metal obviously than Rush, but it's really progressive.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: At the same time, they cover a Fleetwood Mac song
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: on Killing Machine green Manalishi with the two pronged crown.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Had you heard the Fleetwood Mac version prior to Priest version,
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: because it's song?
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was That's a fond fawn memory for me
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: as well, because my buddy Forrest too got the Killing
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Machine album, the UK version with with the title in
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: red and it's Killing Machine and it didn't have that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: on it, and we lived with that for a couple
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: or few months and just that album to death. It
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: was one of our favorite albums of all time. And
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: then all lo and behold the North American version comes out.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It's got an extra song on it, just like the
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Sex Pistols with submission, right, and you know, it had
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: this crazy shocking title. I don't even think we were
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: aware that it was a cover when we saw it
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the first time. Quickly we see the credits, and the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: amazing thing about it is is is just a completely
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: total heavy metal song the way Priests do it. It's
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: it sounds like it absolutely stands head and shoulders with
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the other songs on that album. You don't even really
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: recognize it as a cover because it's so priest and
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you know, now I've heard the original obviously, and yeah,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: it's just a It's just kind of a quiet, doomy
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: bluesy song, right, But.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: An interesting choice for a cover. Interesting that those albums
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: don't have any big hit singles. Those are still to
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: come on nineteen eighty British Steel, which has Living After Midnight,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Breaking the Law a number four album in the US.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: You say the book that the band enters. This album
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: and New Decade completely transformed.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I remember when British Steel came out. We
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: were kind of shocked at how they kind of dumbed down.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Still loved it, but uh yeah, hearing Living after Midnight
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: on radio with those Louis Louie chords, uh, and then
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Breaking the Law and then really feeling that the two
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: fastest songs on the album, Steeler and Rapid Fire, weren't
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: very good. The riffs, there's nothing to the riffs. They
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: were just too simple. I weren't particularly happy with your
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you Ain't too Old to Be Wise whatever it's called.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: The rage Breaking the Law was okay, pretty good. So
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: it's funny I I I have that sort of corrected
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: form like Charlie Bonanti, I think, and Marty Friedman just
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: rave about British Steel and and the quality of the songwriting.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: So they they you know, these are rock stars who
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: were actually doing it rather than me who's like a nobody.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: But they're actually out there doing it, and they're and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: they're trying to get the point across the pre song
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: right improve so much. But even then I will disagree
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: with them on this whole idea, This rarefied, you know,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: subjective thing about what is a great song, right, But
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I do remember as a kid already being sophisticated enough
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: at what would I have been there seventeen years old?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I did feel that about Grinder and Metal Gods. I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: felt like, Okay, these are two of priests best songs.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's great about them, but they just
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: seem to be better songwriting than the albums I liked previous.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: They aren't particularly complicated, but they're complicated enough blah blah
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: blah crossed with the great songwriting things. So everything that
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: basically Marty Friedman and Charlie Bonante, you know, rave about
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: British steel and call it a drop dead classic. I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: under totally understand what they're talking about. But for me,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: that coalesces in two songs and then maybe half into
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Breaking the Law, which I think is also a great
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: songwrit But I don't think you have to be able,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: too old to be or wise or rage or certainly
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: certainly Rapid Fire and Steeler not well written songs at all,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and Living after Midnight, Yeah, it's pretty good, pretty good,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: but I do I'll always remember thinking of that about
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the one improvement priest made in nineteen eighty was Metal
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Gods and Grinder.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Did they open for Kiss prior to that? What was
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: it that they opened for Kiss seventy did?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I always get it confused with Iron Maiden, but they
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: both did. Yeah, I think they did, perhaps, I Okay, so.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: There's a reason I'm asking. I'm gonna I'm setting up
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: a question here.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they did on On in seventy nine
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: and eighty, okay, And I think Maiden did in eighty
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and eighty one. Maybe all right?
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Because I was listening to three sides of the Coin
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: the Kiss podcast and You've Been On and Mark Chikini
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: had brought up an interesting point about that maybe the
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: influenced the songwriting. I think he sided Living after Midnight
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: was kind of like their rock and roll night, like
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: they were looking for a song like that. Maybe that influenced.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: That's a great idea, that's a great theory. But I've
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: never heard them say anything like that. I mean, it
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: would be a great question to ask them, But I
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: think they were just influenced somewhat by Tom Allam, somewhat
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: by getting Dave Holland in the band and seeing what
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: kind of drummer he was and somewhat by just starving
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and needing some hits and and just you know, I
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: think it's Tom Allam who really kind of gave them
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: the sermon on straightening out their songs kind of thing.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I think he had a lot to do with it.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I yeah, the Kiss thing is kind of
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: interesting that that could that could be the case.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: But that was the Dynasty tour that they opened for Kiss.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I guess I think they just needed to
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: you know, everything they were doing was kind of going
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: over people's heads. Put it that way, unless you were
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a raging metal head, like I said, I mean, you know,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: the unsung story is that they're they're kind of like
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the Beatles for thrash artists, right, They were like a
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: super super relevatory. Wow, this is some great new music
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: coming out.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Booked on Rock Podcasts. We'll be back after this.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Difficult to see Always Emotion.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Is the Future. Martin Popoff here to talk about his
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: latest book, Judas Priest. Album by album. I was really
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: curious to read the chapter on nineteen eighty six this
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: is terrible album and see what people thought of that one.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: But before that is Point of Entry from eighty one
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Screaming for Vengeance in eighty two. Defenders of Faith from
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: eighty four, they chart at number fourteen, eleven, and nineteen respectively.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Heading out to the Highway, You've got another thing coming. Yeah,
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: they're at the peak of their commercial popularity here. I
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: want to ask you about Screaming for Vengeance because you
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: have some great quotes from Slash on this album. He
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: told you that this is his all time favorite Priest record.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: He says, quote, it was just a motherfucker of a record.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Everything Judas Priest peaks on that record. What do you
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: think about Slash's comments? Do you agree with this statement
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: that the band is peaking on that record.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember getting that album and thinking the one
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: side had again some great heavier songs than were even
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: on Point of Entry, and that was a great side
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: of music. But the other side was kind of a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: proto hair metal when we didn't know hair metal existed,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: that it didn't exist at the time. But but it
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: was pretty kiss like still, so I think they were
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: somewhat kiss like across all three and maybe even into four,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: maybe even five of those albums actually, But yeah, I
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: think I've seen a lot of kind of deep Priest
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: fans say this over recent years to saying Screen of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: re Vengines a little overrated, right, And I kind of
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: believe that as well. You know, it definitely felt more
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: dynamic and more exciting than Point of Entry. I think
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: everything felt better at the time over Point of Entry.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Over time, I've Point of Entries coming up for me
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: a little bit. And then and then the Net album
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: was heavier and darker still, and it was pretty cool.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: And I remember never really worrying or caring about the production,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: but now I hate the production on Defenders. I I,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: it's hard to listen to that album, but uh, but yeah,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the songs were heavier still, so that was good. They
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: were doubling down kind of thing. A lot of great riffs,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of great ideas still on those albums. There's
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to gather up and enjoy on all
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: four of those albums. British steal right through to those albums,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and then, like you say, you get to Turbo, and
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: we were all very shocked about Turbo, But you know,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: nowadays I actually quite like the production on it. I
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: don't mind the idea of guitar since there's obviously the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the three or four songs that everybody absolutely hates on
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: their parental guidance, private property, all those ones, Rocky all
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: around the world, whatever. But but I like, I like
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: locked In. I think Turbo Lover is an absolute masterpiece. Yeah,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: well put together Reckless. I love Reckless Bards and Reckless. Yeah.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: I think it's my age though, because eight kid, you know.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: It's a pretty good album. I'm I'm, I'm fine with it.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: But yeah, they were trying their hair metal thing. The
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: look is much more ridiculous than the record. That's when
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: they all got the you know, the curly hair and
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the perms and the and added more red leather into
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: their black leather and all that kind of thing.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, Well, you say, jump forward twenty years and
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: it's a case of being glad this chapter in pre
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: history was written.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a yeah, that's an interesting idea where
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I where I, you know, over a whole bunch of years.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: When you look back on catalogs, you you like that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the band tried different things and has all these peaks
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: of and valleys. It gives you more stuff to talk about. Right.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Metallica is a great example of that with with Load
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and st Anger and all that like all the very
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: all the different kinds of productions you get out of Metallica, right, so, uh,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and we have a problem with Motorhead like that.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, Motorhead the quality was always consistently high through
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: the two thousands, but it's hard to tell those albums apart.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: There's really really not a lot of variation there, right,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: just a lot of good ideas all clumped together, you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: eighteen months a new album comes out or whatever. But yeah,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: it's it's good to see that Priest did all that stuff,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and Turbo really gives the fans up to talk about.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, people have just not stopped talking about Turbo since.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: It charted at number thirty three top forty album. So well,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: only one more album in the eighties, that's eighty eighth,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: ram It Down, which reached number twenty four. A cover
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: of Johnny be Good on this album Dave Holland replaced
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: by program drums. Yeah, reading that would make you think
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: that you would have trashed this album. But you say
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: it has its moments.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we never knew at the time it had
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: program drums and it's yeah, it's heavy again. I think
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the production is better than on Defenders and it's got
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: some good ideas, but by that point, you know, you're
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: really getting tired or I'm getting tired of the heavy
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: metal lyrics. I think the lyrics are not good on it.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, pretty pretty decent album. I believe it.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: It went gold, it even managed to go gold.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: What about pain Killer nineteen ninety you write the book
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: often cited as the greatest Priest album? Do you agree?
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: No, Oh, I mean a lot of that's that's one
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: where a lot of younger Priest fans love that album
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: to death. They really do think it's one of the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: greatest Priest albums. But to me, I think I think
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: it still falls down on the lyrics. I think the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: lyrics are too metaler than thou on it. They're they're
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: just kind of silly and primary colored. But yeah, obviously
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: that the playing is amazing on it. The production's great.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: That that really steely, bright, Chris Tangeriti sound. You get
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Scott Travis coming in on drums. Yeah, it's a it's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: a it's a I don't know, it's it's Those two
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: albums are are both kind of parody of heavy metal
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: albums in a way, right, they're just too locked into
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the whole idea of the ethos of heavy metal.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: The title track A Touch of Evil. Those are the
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: singles off of paink Color reached number twenty six on Billboard.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Seven years go by before we get the next Judas
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Priest album, Juggulator, with a brand new singer, Rip ro Owens.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: They followed with two thousand and one's Demolition. Your thoughts
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: on the Rip Roans.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Era, Yeah, I was not really much of a fan
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: of those records. Just too heavy, too non logic, too
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: to manly, uh, you know, just to a lot of
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: violence and blood and slashing and killing. They're like slasher
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: slasher movie albums in a way, right, But yeah, I
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: just that that uh, that sort of style didn't didn't
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: fit too well. I mean, none of this is Ripper's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: fault either, because he wasn't doing the writing, you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of it's kind of reinforced with
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the uh the similarity and the album covers and just
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: having you know, that red all the time the Judas
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Priest read. So yeah, just not not much to love
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: on those records. They're just they're just too rough and abrasive.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: How about Halford's solo career were you did you prefer
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: his work over.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: The Yeah, I was totally into his stuff. You know
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: you had you know, Fight was an interesting band. Two
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't so great. That was his industrial kind of look.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: But they but the Halford band made some amazing music,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: very traditional, priesty kind of music. I really like that
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: second Fight outum more than the first one. Most people
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: like War of Words best, but yeah, it's And I
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: even did a History in Five Songs episode on Rob
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: and Bruce as as doppel gangers because they both go
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: away and do some interesting work on their own, because
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I think in both cases they're looking at their band
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and saying it's getting a little cheesy at this point, right,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and they're saying, oh, I want to write some music
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: for adults, right and keep it in a metal zone.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: So they both went away and did that.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I remember hearing great things about Halford solo career, not
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: that I didn't, not that I heard bad things about Dickinson,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: but I remember just just got out there like, yeah,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Halford's the real deal. He's got some good stuff on
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: the side. But of course everybody wanted to see him
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: back with Priests, and he did return. That was two
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: thousand and five's Angel of Retribution number thirty. Then the
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: numbers only get higher from there, twenty fourteens, Redeemer of
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Souls number twelve, twenty eighteens, Firepower number five, twenty twenty
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: fours in Vincible Shield, all the way to number two.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: You lead the chapter on the numbers mean nothing though
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: in late later years. Yeah, yeah, they always started, They
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: start at the top and then they quickly fall. But
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: the popularity of Priests is as strong as ever. And
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: you lead the chapter on Invincible Shield by saying, quote,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: it's hard to believe Priest could be this vital up
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: until their nineteenth album and fully six years after Firepower,
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: but here they are. They're still kicking ass. So well,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: what is your assessment of Priests of recent years.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's amazing. I think Priests doing a killer, killer
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: job or Richie Faulkner's a big part of that of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: course as well. The productions are amazing, very molten guitars.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: You know, Andy Sneap is super important to the band
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: as well. But yeah, people love Invincible Shield. I love
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: it too. There's great risks on it. It's it's proggy
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: in places, it's got you know, a little odd time
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: signature stuff going on. But the riffs are really exciting.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: All the writing is good. So yeah, people are loving
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Priest Now they're just an iconic classic rock band. They're
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: still touring halford is unbelievable. He still singing quite well.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: You know. It's up and down a little bit, right,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: He's getting a little older, but he's singing really well.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of examples of guys that are
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: doing a lot worse than he is. They were even
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: younger than him, and he's got a heavy job to do.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: It's it's a it's a pretty acrobatic kind of singing
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that he does. Right.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: He is in his seventies now, right.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so he's he's doing well. And uh yeah,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: people love these albums. People loved Firepower when it came
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: out as well. Redeemer of Souls is a funny one.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I've often thought, you know. My point that I make
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: in the book is that it it has this strange,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: arcane production values that you get on Glenn Tipton's uh
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Baptism of Fire and on Nostrodamus. So so it's interesting.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: There's this trilogy of albums that I think kind of
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: go together those three that have this this oddly synthetic
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: drum sound, these these sort of synthesizery sounding guitars that Glenn.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Glenn kind of liked that at the time. So it's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: so again, it's neat that a Redeemer of Souls exists,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: and it's very, very different from Firepower, which is kind
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: of similar to Invensive Invincible Shield. But the point I
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I made this in the book,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: but in reviewing the album, it's like every single it's
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: almost like every single song on Invincible Shield is like
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: a better version of something that might have been on Firepower.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: But Firepower was amazing to begin with, so the bar
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: is just really high. I think they've done a really
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: good job in recent years and keeping keeping the Priest
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Flame alive.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Podcast will be back after this.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I think you'd be glad later if you weren't here now.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: So we'll finish with a quick, rapid fire series of questions,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: starting with best Judas Priest album.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I'd say Killing Machine.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: How many most underrated Priest album?
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a good one. Underrated underrated. See I I
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: did a whole podcast episode on the meaning of the
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: word underrated and that that really it's a really loaded
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: word right right, yes, because things that can be that
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: that can be rated super super high can be uh
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: hang hang on, how does that work? So so if
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: if some yeah, okay, underrated or overrated, Yeah, if something
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: is rated super super high, it could still be great,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: but still be overrated, I guess.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Because I think if underrated is overlooked too.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, underrated point of Entry, although people now are starting
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to realize what a cool, fun, well written album that is.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I think there's some good songwriting on that album. Yeah,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: that's that's one where I could see that argument that all.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I could almost see that argument of Charlie and Marty
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: applying even more on point of Entry. So that's underrated.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: To me, rock and roll is underrated. I think. I
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: think that's just gotten a bad rap over the years,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: and it's really good, especially for, like I say, being
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: a baby band on no budget. I think it's underrated.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: What else is underrated? I think a Redeemer of Souls
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: over the years is going to be seen to be
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: an underrated album because it is a little out there,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit different. So did what was underrated
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Turbo underrated got some so.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: It is quite reviled. So for that reason it's underrated.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's a super amazing album. But I
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: also the problem I guess in me overlooking that is
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: underrated is I see too many people loving it to death,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: So it's it's it's starting to be rated a little
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: too high. Almost.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well that's where I was gonna go. Most overrated
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Priest album?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: What do you think Turbo overrated? Screaming for Vengeance? I
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: think that's overrated the same way that Number of the
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Beast is overrated because it's rated so highly and people
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: when you drill down there's some there's some slightly dodgy
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: material on it. What else? Painkiller I think is overrated
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: because that is rated super super high, and I think,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: like I say, I think the lyrics are just juvenile
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: on it. Uh and and I can't I can't unsee
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the lyrics. So yeah, there's two good ones.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: All right. How about we didn't talk album covers? Best
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: Priest album cover Boy.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Sad Wings, The Destiny is amazing, Killing Machine is amazing.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: After that, they get pretty metal. They get pretty straightforward
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: and metal and illustrated. So I think you lose the art.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: You lose I mean, point of Entry is kind of artistic,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: but I think you lose the art forever more when
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: once Priest becomes mortals. That's what happens, right. Priests are
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: immortal to me, They're like gods. They're like geniuses up
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: until Killing Machine, and once they become mortal, their album
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: covers also become mortal. So yeah, I would say, uh,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna go Killing Machine even over
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Sad Wings, because Sad Wings is a little too on
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the nose of Hey, this is a beautifully illustrated, classic
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: symbolist kind of painting. But Killing Machine is is really
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: kind of artistic and cool and really makes an impact.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: All right, winding down here, if you had to introduce
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: somebody who's never heard of Judas Priest before, what song
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: would it be a best Priest song to introduce a
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: fan to?
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Wow, this is always a question that that bothers me
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: because we always do this with albums or pick five
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: songs to introduce a because this band has so many
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: different eras and you'd almost have to gauge how old
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: is is this fan You're trying to get them into Priest,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: So everybody's different. But you know, for Best Priests song,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I often go with delivering the goods. But best song
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: to introduce a fan to, let's just let's just say
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: it's a twenty two year old fan. Say, say you're
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: trying to spoon feed metal to a to a kid
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: that's into a hip hop say, right, yeah, you want
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: to get it. You don't want to you want to
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: corrupt them into being a metal head. You'd have to
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: go with something newer and shinier, right, So, uh so, yeah,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Trial by Fire maybe?
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Okay, I thought you were saying After Midnight that's an entry.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what, if you got a twenty two
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: year old kid, music sounding that old is just gonna
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: sound clanky and crappy, Right, yeah, you gotta go with
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: something that that gives you all the production values, you know,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Invincible Shield maybe?
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Is Living After Midnight? Priests most overrated song?
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Now we're getting rated that high overrated song? Okay, so Bruce,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: pre overrated song. Let's see Other Thing Coming is not
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: that rated that highly? Breaking the Law is rated pretty highly. Yeah,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Breaking the Law might be a little overrated. What else
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I think I got? Painkiller? The song is the most
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: overrated Priest song.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: All right, and then finally most underrated pre song. What
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: do you think it is?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I think, well, okay, I've got a perfect answer for that,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: because I always get heck for calling this my second
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: favorite pre song, Burning up from Uh. People think that
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: song is commercial and disco and funky and blah blah blah.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's beautifully, beautifully written. It's I think it's
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: heavy as hell. I love it.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: So there you go, most, there you go, There you go,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Judas Priests album, my album, it's out now. I'm assuming
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: people can go to your website too if they want
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: to sign copied.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Yep, exactly, I've been. I've been signing and sending him out. Yeah,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I mean my you know, most of my income is
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: being a mail order guy, my own books, right, So yeah,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Martin Popoff dot com. Anything that's in print, I have copies.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I signed them, send them out from here to postage
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: is reasonable, PayPal buttons for everything, and off you go.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: And then anything else you want to plug? The shows on.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: YouTube, Well, like I said, I've got my audio podcast
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: every Week History and five songs with Martin pop Off.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: We've got our Contrarians video channel. I do a podcast
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: also on Pantheon with John Gaffney called Kicked in the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Teeth and ACDC podcast. Yeah, it's about it.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Busy, always busy, all right, Martin. Thanks, We will talk
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: to again down the road.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: All right. Sounds good, Eric, that's it.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: It's in the books.