Latest / The Price of Music / Ozzy Osbourne is... back?; Spotify's new tickets-for-fans feature; Does recycled vinyl sound good?; Drake's hit trio of albums; and Badger Badger Badger Badger...

Transcript

Ozzy Osbourne is... back?; Spotify's new tickets-for-fans feature; Does recycled vinyl sound good?; Drake's hit trio of albums; and Badger Badger Badger Badger... · The Price of Music

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Hello, and welcome to The Price of Music, brought to you by
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Music Ally. If you want an easy guide to
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what's going on in the music industry and how it all works,
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then here we are looking at the finances of the music industry.
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We're also bringing you the stories and comments from the
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pop business in the last week. He's Stuart Dredge.
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I'm Steve. Wait a minute.
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I'm Joe Sparrow. Let's start with the financial
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facts which caught your eye this week.
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Yeah, I've got a big number to tell you about.
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My big number is 1.16 billion and that is the number of
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streams so far, with an asterisk that I'll get into for Drake's
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three new albums which came out on 15th of May.
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Right. OK, so for people who are not
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Drake mega fans, he released not one, not 2, but three albums on
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one day previously known as the triple album I guess.
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But these are three individual albums.
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It's true. Yeah.
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So like for the last year I think he's been teasing this new
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project while occasionally doing record labels and shooting
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called Iceman. And that's the main album that
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came out. But yeah, on the day he was like
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ha ha. I've got 2 new albums as well.
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So Iceman is the main album which I think and.
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That's an album of Vanilla Ice covers, is that right?
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It is, yeah. Just just just covering Vanilla
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Ice's first album by Jack and that's I guess that's just kind
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of his traditional up. Then there's Habib tea, which is
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I think I'll I'll describe it as sad bangers.
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So it's more RMB mellower and then maid of honour, which is
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happy bangers. So that is more housey.
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So it's kind of there's there's kind of a there's a genre split
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here and they all came out and on the day they broke various
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records on all streaming. So as every big new album seems
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to like, you get these press releases saying it's the the the
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most first day streams by a Canadian rapper whose surname
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begins with D You know, this year everything breaks records.
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So my question is, why do we care?
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Like why? Why does these big numbers feel
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important when we talk about Drake?
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Well, I think it's the discourse, isn't it?
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Which I know we're only adding to, but the discourse around
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this is, can Drake come back from the Kendrick Lamar thing
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where? And again, without wading into
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those waters and getting us in trouble, I think it was fairly
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the consensus was that he came out worse from that rap battle.
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Yes, and Kendrick Ross did rub his nose in it.
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Massive. Public humiliation, I think, was
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the. But he's still a big star.
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And so this, this project is quite important.
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And that's the, you know, is this Drake's, is it going to be
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a flop or is it going to be Drake's comeback smash?
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And those are the two narratives open to us.
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And nothing else is allowed. Yeah, and I mean, so that the
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figure I had was like 1.16 billion streams now like there
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are there are two singles that came out a year ago on this
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project and they've done lots of streams.
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So it's not a billion stream project yet because the it's had
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a lot of those two singles kind of skew it.
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But he's currently got, Drake's going to like it's got just
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under 98,000,000 monthly listings on Spotify.
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So it's taken him back to being the ninth biggest artists
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behind. And this May, this May smart a
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little, he's behind the likes of Bad Bunny, Taylor Swift, Lady
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Gaga, Michael Jackson, Rihanna. Last studio album came out in
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the 18th century, the weekend, Bruno Mars and Justin Bieber.
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He's got 141 million. So it hasn't taken him back to
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the top of the pyramid, but it's done all right.
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You know it's done all right. I'm no maths whiz, but even I
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know that if you release 3 albums at once you're probably
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going to triple the number of streams, right?
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Because you've got three times. What are you to listen to are.
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You going to divide the streams out are you going to divide
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like, say, Drake fans have a certain amount of time to listen
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to Drake when his new Predict drops are you not just kind of
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the same amount of streams spread over three albums I.
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Mean it feels a bit exhausting, doesn't it?
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I mean, famously, triple albums are very, very difficult to
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sell. You know, the clashes,
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Sandinista is kind of good. But you're, you know, you're
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always thinking, I wonder if we could have trimmed, you know, at
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least a third of these tracks out.
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And that's my first thought. Second thought is when you
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listed that top 10 on Spotify, this feels really solidified
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now, like these, these top artists, it feels like Bieber's
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going to be near the top forever.
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And it's, it feels like a sort of that, that that by looking at
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the all time numbers doesn't, isn't that quite reductive?
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Like, who cares? Because like the the top ten are
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always going to be a kind of, you know, a configuration of
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those. Aren't they pretty?
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Much. Yeah, although plucky young
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emerging artist Michael Jackson has just broken into top 10, so,
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you know. My lawyers have requested that
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you make no connection between Michael Jackson and Drake.
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But I think, I mean the, I think The thing is this is, this is
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what I was thinking about this story is that there's this rush
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to go. We have to dub it a success or a
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flop now. When in fact we need to exit a
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couple. So I was looking at like the the
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22 comparable albums this year. So BTS is our rang came out on
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20th of March, right? That's done 2.6 billion streams
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in in sort of two months more. Harry Styles kissed all the time
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dislocations that came out on 6th of March and it's got 1.05
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billion streams. So by that reckoning, Drake is
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already on course to be bigger than Harry Styles, his new
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album, but he be together. So I think in a couple of months
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time we can look at it, compare it to those who haven't said,
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OK, where is he in that upper echelon of new album?
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Yeah, there's this sort of allergy to having a flop ERA,
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isn't there? And if you think about Michael
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Jackson's pop career, he had a huge flop ERA.
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Like everything after Dangerous was pretty much a flop in terms
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of public success. You know, he never really
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rekindled the heights of even bad.
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So, you know, but then with hindsight, of course, catalog
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doesn't makes that a non issue. But like it's it's it's it sort
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of takes a bit of the risk taking out of it, doesn't it?
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I mean, OK, I recognise he's he released three albums, which is
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a risk. And they're three different
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types, which is a risk. But I'm sure an artist who has a
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budget of hundreds of millions of dollars can get the best
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songwriters and producers in the world, and you're sort of
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guaranteed a level of success, aren't you?
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Yeah. I mean, we should, we should nod
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to the theory online that was this is about him also by him
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fulfilling his contract with Universal Music.
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So he's got this deal. It's not really a standard deal.
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I think it's like a he, he redistributes through them.
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But it's and obviously he's also suing them for defamation.
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We have 3 left on this deal I guess.
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Well people are saying this is obviously about finishing up his
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contract and leaving. No one seems to be saying that
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claim who also has any receipts showing they know what the deal
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is like. It's a theory, not a kind of
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any, and there's no grounds in fact yet.
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But you and I know music industry lawyers and I feel.
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That they've probably, they would probably have put a clause
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in a contract saying, hey, you can't just like fart out three
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albums in order to get out of a deal, you know?
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Well, is that and that's exact that's exact wording.
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Yes, exactly. Yeah, but anyway, so yeah, but
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it's Drake is quite popular. It's by my not particularly
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revolutionary finding here, but I think we should try or try and
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avoid hot takes on a success until I don't know, mid-july and
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then we can go go in two footed with a flop or.
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I'm sure the Internet will respect your call for a pause
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and some waiting. OK, let's move on to the big
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news stories of this week. This is one of those things that
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sounds like it's going to be boring, but actually has
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interesting stuff in it. Spotify held its Investor Day
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last week, and it unveiled some new features, including two big
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pieces of music News 1 around ticketing and one around AI
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Stew. Pray tell.
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Yeah, well, it's so this isn't like you say, it's an event
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that's really about talking to Wall Street, I think, isn't it?
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And saying, look, look how well things are going and how
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brilliant we are and all our new things.
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Please send our shares soaring and make us rich.
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But it's also the day when they announce some quite big new
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stuff. So the ticketing one I thought
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was really interesting. So it's this thing called
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reserved. And basically what's going to
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happen is Spotify's now going to have access to tickets, some
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tickets for like hot tours and it's kind of superstar stadium
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and arena tours, but also smaller up and coming bands too.
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It's not just the biggest stars and what it's going to do or
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what it's algorithm's going to do is crunch data on listening
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and sharing and following and playlists and everything people
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have been doing and say, right, OK, I've got tickets for now.
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I'm going to say I don't know BTS as the hot tour.
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They haven't announced they've got BTS tickets.
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This is me saying as an example and say, OK, well, we know on
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the route of that tour. Here are the, I don't know, 2000
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biggest BTS super fans based on our algorithms crunching of
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data. We're going to notify an e-mail
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every single one of them and say we've reserved you 2 tickets.
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You don't have to join a queue. You don't have to, kind of.
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You don't get a code to get access.
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We've reserved them for you. Here's a link.
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You've got a day to go in, choose tickets and buy them.
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Now I kind of like this. I feel like this is this is the
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kind of thing that fans will potentially quite like, right?
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This sounds like a good use of data and geolocation and live.
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Yeah. And it's they've got to deal
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with Live Nation to do this and they're going to have other
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promoters. And I mean, it's, it's
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interesting though, I think because it it's by its nature,
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they can't say what the methodology is in too much
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detail because then obviously you'll be like, I'll wear them
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out to its BTS. I'm going to go and do this and
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that and this and that to game it.
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So you're going to have 2000 in that case, you're going to have
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2000 super fans who are delighted.
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And you're going to have however many more who haven't been sent
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an e-mail notification going, well, I didn't get what?
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I'm a super fan. How why didn't I get in?
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So there is a risk there, I suppose, of the people you don't
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give stuff to. But yeah, it's.
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I mean, I, I do like it. I mean, because, you know, I,
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you know, every year I get my Spotify Wrapped and I discover
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I'm in the, you know, 0.1% fan group for a certain artist.
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And if I was told, hey, we know you live in Berlin, this artist
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is touring, I've got a ticket ready for you.
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I'll be really happy about that. Yeah, and it's kind of tackling
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that. It's part of the wider things.
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Tackle that thing of like people want to fill venues with real
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fans and real fans who haven't had to pay some tout 4 times the
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price. So yeah, I think it's it's a
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good idea. And details are relatively
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disgusting. Like they haven't said who
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they've got the first ones for, which artists are working with.
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That'll be quite important to understand the scale of it.
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It's starting in the US first. And they've actually stolen a
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bit of a March because a year ago the boss of Live Nation,
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Michael Pino, was doing an onion's call and he kind of,
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well, blabbed is the wrong word. I think he knew what he was
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saying. So oh, yeah, we've been talking
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to Spotify and Apple Music and Amazon about getting to giving
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tickets allocations to them. You know, we'll see who kind of
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who makes the best offer to us. And Spotify's deal is exclusive
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for I don't know how long, but it's exclusive.
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So it means its rivals can't do a similar deal for the moment
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with Live Nation to do this kind of feature.
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So it's not, it's kind of competitive fun and frolics and
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that score. I mean, it definitely gives, you
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know, we talked a long time about the streaming platform is
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trying to find differentiation between all these identical
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services and this is a real one, right?
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This is of interest. What about the AI announcement
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then? Yeah, well, this was really, it
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came out on the day and it was, it was Universal Music Group and
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Spotify, who have been working together on AI stuff for a
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while. They signed a sort of an
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agreement last year to work on stuff, and now they've firmed it
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up as, and I'll quote it, a new tool allowing fans to create
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covers and remix as their favorite songs from
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participating artists and songwriters.
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Which, alas, it's not a lot about letting you or me get our
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acoustic guitar out and murder a fate of Ophelia, as much as I'd
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love to do that. Do you know how it?
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Quite well, But yeah. And if you want to use this
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thing, it'll be an AI tool to kind of create these covers.
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You have to pay an extra fee. So it'll be something on top of
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your Spotify subscription. You'll pay for it to use it, and
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then the musicians will get royalties from that, or rather
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universal and labels will, and they'll print.
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So the idea is it's a way to use AI to make covers that the
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artist has said this is OK and they're going to earn money
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from. So my first question is what is
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this for? Who is it for?
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Yeah, I mean, do you know we had we had our our musical I Connect
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conference. So in student we had them
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universal we're talking and and this idea came out of like,
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wouldn't it be great? What was what the idea was?
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Wouldn't it be great to hear Jimi Hendrix cover Bitches Brew
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with malice Davis? And this is the sort of thing
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they obviously had in mind there.
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And at the time, I remember the room being divided, some people
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who thought that was the worst possible thing, imagining role,
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and people who were kind of like, actually that sounds quite
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fun. And I was definitely, by the
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way, in the former camp. I just for clarity, I just don't
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know. I don't know why I would want
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this. I don't know why I would want to
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hear other than for like reasons of novelty, why I would want to
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hear artist X doing a version of artist Y song.
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I just, I just don't know why I would want that.
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That's me. No similar with me really.
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Which maybe, maybe it implies we're not the target audience
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and everything we would love. Is it the young people?
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But the the, the interesting question here is, is this not
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going to be something that you just get given on Spotify and
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you can use it and play with it and try it out?
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But where can you put? Where can you put the songs
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afterwards? Can you only on Spotify or what?
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I mean, I'm, I'm assuming, well, I'm going to assume that you can
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listen to them yourself now. Can you share them with friends
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and how can you share them on social media?
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Can you share them within Spotify with friends?
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I would, I would. I'm going to be very not putting
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my head on neck out on a limb here and say I don't think
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you'll be able to put them on Spotify.
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If people just dream generally, I certainly wouldn't think you'd
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be able to get royalties from them.
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Yeah, that's that. That feels like a line.
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That's caught but no the details of that are are unclear and So
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what the other thing that happens here is so Universal
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Music done this deal with Spotify.
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They to create the tool to license the tool.
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What needs to happen next is Universal Music.
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They're going back to artists and so much it's already been
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happening and say, are you in or out of this?
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Are you, are you going to be in? Because it made it very clear
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participating somewhat as an artist.
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So they don't have to be part of this.
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This isn't going to be done to anyone without the permission.
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It does feel that this is a sort of shift, isn't it, from making
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new IP from old IP. And I don't know how I feel
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about that. I think, you know, I listen to
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music. I want to hear humans creating
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stuff, not because they're humans, but because it's it's
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new, it's coming from somewhere new and like, hey, what would
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Jimi Hendrix doing, Billie Jean sound like it.
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It feels like the laziest version of creating something.
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Yeah. And I think the the thing about
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this and like you, you touched on how can you share this?
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Because I think someone, some people out there will use this
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feature and make something really good, you know, and it
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might not be the obvious Jimi Hendrix covering, blah.
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It might be they'll do something with someone's song that is a
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brilliant remix. And so then the question is, OK,
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someone's done something brilliant with this.
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How is everyone going to hear it?
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Because if if only that person can hear it, that's not going to
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sell the future to other people. And that's the key thing is
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Spotify is going to have to sell this to people.
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You have to pay for it to do it. So they're going to need to have
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something up there shows you this is how it's brilliant and
14:51
fun. There's got to be something in
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it for them, hasn't there? Yeah.
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So details have leaked out about the new service from Udio called
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Starstruck, which sounds very flashy.
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What is it? Yeah, we're basically going to
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repeat our last five minutes again because this is very
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similar sounding to what Spotify and UMG are doing.
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So Udio is a rival to SUNO, not quite as big.
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And they've been signing licensing deals with labels and
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they've said they're working on a new version.
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It's going to be fully licensed and it's going to be kind of,
15:20
and then they did this private event, I think it was with
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Cobalt to sort of explain what the new thing is.
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And someone recorded it and sent that to Water and Music, the
15:28
kind of online community. Who of this parish?
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Yeah, Gleefully published all the details so we can all talk
15:34
about it. So yeah, an app called
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Starstruck, it lets fans and the quote is remix cover and
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reimagine songs by their favorite artists with royalties
15:42
going to his artists and they sort of detailed these 4
15:45
features. So and this to our point about
15:48
what is this going to be? So one of them is called Cover,
15:51
and that lets you create one artist covering another song.
15:54
So I don't know. Charlie XCX covering Taylor
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Swift, Yeah. OK.
15:59
Re Imagine keeps the lyrics, rewrites the music in completely
16:04
so just the words and then some. I think remix changes the genre
16:08
or style so you can make a happy hardcore version of Billie Jean.
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No, I'm interested in that. OK, You're selling it to me now.
16:13
Here we go. And then create.
16:15
Let's use your own lyrics with an artist's voice and style.
16:19
But there'll be some rules around topic and language and
16:21
style. So you couldn't have virtual
16:23
Drake rapping a Nazi anthem and that sort of stuff, you know,
16:26
Like there'll be rules. Guardrails, it's called.
16:29
I mean, I'd like to see Kendrick Lamar come back from that.
16:31
Quite. And key to all this, I think
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it's in again. Artists and songwriters are
16:35
going to have to opt into this, so their labels and publishers
16:38
will have to convince them, yes, be part of this Starstruck app.
16:42
If they don't, we part. They don't have to be.
16:44
Here's my question about this. Right?
16:45
If, if, if so much money is being invested into creating
16:49
technology that essentially creates remixes and artists or,
16:56
you know, AI versions of artists speaking alternate versions of
16:59
songs, why not just pay the artist to go and do it?
17:02
Why not pay? If you want a happy hardcore
17:05
version of Billie Jean, it's probably out there already.
17:07
Why not just give that person some money and want Taylor Swift
17:10
to do a cover version of Artist XYZ?
17:12
Why not just pay her to do it? I mean, I think the first is
17:17
more is more affordable than the second.
17:19
There well, correct. But surely, like if, like surely
17:21
if, if, if Yeah, you take my point, right?
17:23
Like if, if we're going to get the ones, the songs coming out
17:27
of the system that are going to be so big are the ones who
17:30
recognise the big artists voices on them, right?
17:32
So why just pay them to do it? Well, yeah.
17:34
And I think like, you know, is it Radio 1 has that Live Lounge
17:37
where they have artists and they do one one of their own songs
17:39
and they do a cover and that's become quite a thing.
17:41
Who's you going to cover in the Live Lounge?
17:43
And and that's always interesting, you know, seeing
17:45
Harry Styles. Who's he going to cover and
17:46
what's he going to do with that? Because it says something about
17:48
Harry Styles. Exactly.
17:49
We interviewed, so there is. I think it does.
17:52
I don't know. I am struggling to think.
17:54
It certainly will be fun to play with this, but is it something
17:57
you want to pay for is anyone wants to listen to?
18:01
I mean, I do, you know, I did a presentation with you about the
18:03
AI music I've been experimenting with.
18:06
And someone put their hand up and went, how much do you listen
18:09
to the stuff you've made with AI?
18:10
And I was like, Oh no, I really enjoy making it for that two
18:13
hours, you know, But then I listen to humans and I'm
18:17
listening to music. And so there.
18:19
Yeah. I wonder, this all feels like
18:21
quite a bit, doesn't it? And I and I, I know that
18:23
Universal Music have big team of people doing consumer research,
18:27
asking people what they like and what they want.
18:29
You know, I assume Spotify also has that ability to do that.
18:33
There must be some research that says people want this kind of
18:35
thing. But like you say, we're sitting
18:37
here now going. But is it?
18:39
Isn't it just is this perhaps just like the wider trend in
18:42
tech, which is let's make sure we give people toys essentially
18:46
that keep them entertained on their devices and keep them just
18:49
going round and round and making sort of quasi making things.
18:52
But this isn't real creativity. If I'm being, you know, from an
18:56
artist perspective, I don't think any artist would equate
18:58
sitting down and doing songwriting, which is a really
19:01
hard, laborious and long job with, you know, typing in some
19:05
prompts and, and, and getting a song and, you know, in two hours
19:08
having a finished thing that sounds, you know, pretty sort of
19:11
respectively normal, you know, like it's I, I think it feels
19:16
like the the value is just in that the genuinely fun part of
19:21
just mixing things together and making something new.
19:23
But then why would you listen to it And?
19:25
It all stands or falls on which artists opt in, really.
19:28
And that's the thing, we don't know.
19:29
We don't know who's opting in at the moment.
19:31
When these things launch, we'll see.
19:32
Oh, they've got a bunch of top artists doing it.
19:35
I'm interested now because Charlie XX is in, but if it's
19:38
not those, but if they all go, no, this is not what we want and
19:41
it's a bunch of I should never heard of, then it flops.
19:44
So that is the key thing now is like they've they've licensed
19:47
these tools, they've done the deals, but it really is crucial
19:50
now of like what what are the actual musicians think and what
19:53
can labels do to persuade them if they're unconvinced?
19:57
Of course, it could help if some of those artists are dead and
20:00
their families are looking after estates, and we'll come to that
20:02
later. First of all, a genuine
20:04
songwriter of note, Ed Sheeran, is leaving Warner Music Group
20:07
after 15 years. Where's he going and why?
20:12
Oh, we don't know, but did you see his Instagram posts a few
20:14
weeks ago? I do not follow Ed Sheeran.
20:16
So he's. But Ed Sheeran's at level now
20:19
where when I'm when I've got my feeds of what's happening in
20:21
music industry. Ed Sheeran shaving his head is a
20:24
headline that makes. His head, so he's gay.
20:26
Pressing Instagram saying I've shaved my head, like, like, and
20:29
he said Then a lot of new beginnings in my life, like
20:33
cryptically, which could be personal stuff for business or
20:36
both. But there's definitely some
20:39
business changes because this week, yeah, Music Week did this
20:41
report, but it was an e-mail I think sent to fans saying, yeah,
20:45
I'm leaving one music in Asylum Records, which is the imprint
20:47
he's signed to. But it's it's very much like a
20:50
it's me not them situation. So he said like, it's not a this
20:54
isn't a disgruntled artist leaves record label situation.
20:57
He said, he said describe himself as an artist who wants a
20:59
shift and a change in the way he does things professionally.
21:02
So it's very amicable. Warner's still got his catalog,
21:05
and he said he left the door open to work with him because he
21:08
loves people he works with there.
21:10
But but not enough to stay with them.
21:13
Well, no. And like, so it's the way he
21:14
goes next. Like so he's already got his own
21:16
independent label like Gingerbread Man, which I can't
21:19
believe they signed. They signed an artist a while
21:21
ago which and they work through Warner Music's ADA division.
21:27
So the kind of independent label working Foo Warner.
21:29
But he could, he could. I mean, here we go.
21:31
Like Ed Sheeran's a good mate of Taylor Swift.
21:33
Taylor Swift famously signed this huge deal with Universal
21:37
Music, which gives her control of her recordings.
21:40
And it's more of a partnership than a traditional signing.
21:43
So if he's been chatting to her, maybe she was like, well, you
21:46
know, come and have a chat to Lucian.
21:48
That would be a good WhatsApp group to be in.
21:50
I mean those 2C XX or and you know, this is this does sort of
21:57
seem like the direction of travel for a lot of these big
21:59
artists, which is to get big in a traditional label arena.
22:04
And then they, they've got the team around them who can do it
22:07
all themselves. So do it yourself.
22:09
Well, this is it. I think we're in entering this
22:11
new era now because like, say what we 20, Well, Spotify is 20.
22:15
It's a good moment of looking back and thinking, right,
22:17
there's this, there's this wave, isn't there, of streaming era
22:19
megastars. So and like that they're
22:22
starting a bit top ten. Yeah, yeah, sharing it.
22:24
And they're all on limited term deals of anyone kind or another.
22:28
And at some point they will finish those and they have
22:31
options. And, you know, they can sign a
22:32
new deal, They can go elsewhere and do it independently.
22:36
They can get poached by a rival major, but they have options.
22:39
And I think a lot of those people were saying, wow, OK, I
22:42
see. Streaming has worked really well
22:43
for me. I'm rich and I play stadiums.
22:45
But I'd like more control and ownership now.
22:48
So he could go independent. He could sign a Taylor Swift
22:51
style deal with a different major.
22:53
He could have signed that with Warner Music, I would think.
22:55
If he wanted to, I'm sure they would have offered.
22:57
Him, I mean, it feels like Drake.
22:59
I mean, who knows where Drake would go if he does leave this
23:01
deal, but why would he not go solo and and?
23:04
This year, so this year think about like, like Drake is suing
23:07
his Labour partner and it's quite likely to leave.
23:11
Ed Sheeran is leaving when he's like 2 of the biggest stars, as
23:14
you know, are now saying doing something else.
23:18
And I mean, we talked last year and we about James Blake, who's
23:21
who's not quite at their level stream wise, but he's famous and
23:25
he talked about the idea of he found it really mitching,
23:27
building a team around him and doing it his own way.
23:30
So if you're a Sharon or a Drake, you can do that, or you
23:34
can take lots of money for more ownership of your stuff from a
23:37
big company still. Talking about taking lots of
23:41
money. Any other business?
23:43
Ozzy Osbourne is back now explain this to me because as I
23:46
understand it, time works in One Direction and unfortunately Ozzy
23:51
is dead. So what's happening here?
23:54
Yeah, well, this was announced last week, an event called the
23:56
Licensing Expo Conference, where you would expect the keynotes to
24:00
usually be a, you know, licensing execs from Mattel or
24:03
Hasbro or things. But they had Jack and Sharon
24:05
Osbourne talking about Ozzy Osbourne's legacy.
24:09
And they announced, yeah, Digital Aussie, which is the,
24:12
I'm not sure that's the official name of it, but they're working
24:14
with this company called Hyperreal, which is previously
24:16
done. They did metaverse stuff for
24:17
like Paul McCartney and Madison Beer and for The Notorious B.I.G
24:21
who again, obviously is not with us to do it.
24:24
And they didn't really. They just said they they're
24:27
doing it. We're doing digital Aussie with
24:29
this company. They didn't say like we don't
24:32
know if it's an ABBA style concerts thing or a virtual
24:35
thing or even an AI. Ozzy Osbourne you can chat to,
24:38
which does sound quite fun. But I think what happened was at
24:41
the event, Jack Osborne, and he was talking to an audience of
24:43
licensing people. And that's the key context here
24:47
because he said, Oh yeah, it's almost drag and drop.
24:49
You could shoot a template for a commercial literally prompts
24:52
what you want digital Aussie to do in that commercial and you
24:54
just drop it in which to anointance of licensing people
24:58
was like, wow. But to fans of Ozzy Osbourne,
25:01
it's not gone down entirely well across the whole spectrum.
25:04
Yeah, I mean, that sounds really bleak, doesn't it?
25:06
I mean, first of all, we've got we're facing a future of, like,
25:09
endless TV ads featuring dead pop stars, like shilling stuff
25:13
for KFC or whoever. And also, like, I just can't,
25:17
you know, yeah, maybe, maybe people who are not Ozzy Osbourne
25:21
fans will find that like to be a bit of a kick to sort of, oh,
25:23
look, there's Ozzy Osbourne. But then Jack Osbourne did a
25:26
YouTube Q&A few days later and I think he he, he basically was
25:28
like, I'm on par for now. I'm going to answer your
25:30
questions. And someone asked him about
25:32
reactions and he said, yeah, he promised.
25:34
It's not going to be fucking lame.
25:36
Isn't just hooking up an image of my dad to ChatGPT.
25:40
And he also said, which is quite, I think this is quite
25:42
important. I'm, I think I'm the less
25:43
cynical one this day, aren't I? He said they talked about this
25:46
quite a lot with Ozzy Osbourne before he died and he was into
25:48
it. And that's, that's meaningful.
25:50
That's important. Well, I think.
25:51
So because I think when I think about someone, if you, if you're
25:54
a fan and someone you care about dies, I think you have certain
25:57
views on what's appropriate or not.
26:00
And then in reality, though, you don't know what they would have
26:03
thought unless they said it. I just said I don't want to do
26:05
this after I die. They're families now.
26:08
And in this case, it's, this is not like some grand nephew who's
26:11
rinsing a legacy. It's his actual wife and
26:13
children who so. So I think it's quite good that
26:17
he's online talking to fans and yeah.
26:18
Everything's being open about it.
26:19
Yeah, it. Does, I don't know, it does make
26:22
me think like there is this technology now you can turn a
26:24
dead musician into an avatar and you can do what, two dozen
26:28
different things with them, from ABBA style concert stuff to the
26:33
you can come and talk to virtual Aussie and it's trained on in
26:36
all these interviews and it will tell you something.
26:38
But so it's like which of those things are appropriate?
26:41
Which I think is probably a family estate question really.
26:45
But then which of those fans do fans, which I think the fans
26:48
think are appropriate and do they actually want?
26:50
It's it's again, it's that idea of what kind of future do we
26:54
want and are we willing to let people go?
26:59
For instance, are we, you know, we could face a future where
27:03
instead of getting a new actor to act in action movies, we
27:05
could just have an AI version of Bruce Willis forever, right?
27:09
An established star, established brand, people like Bruce Willis
27:12
and here's a new movie with Bruce Willis in it.
27:14
And superficially that seems like it could work, right?
27:17
Because people like Bruce Willis, you know, saying quippy
27:20
1 liners and shooting people or whatever.
27:22
But but ultimately that's like, do we really want that future
27:26
where we're having this kind of stagnation?
27:28
Well, yeah. And in the interesting in the
27:29
movie industry, I think there's a lot of a lot of strong push
27:33
back from the acting unions going on.
27:34
So actually, we're not going to give actors are not going to
27:37
sign over the rights to let a studio train and AR and Bruce
27:40
on, you know, today's equivalent of Bruce Willis.
27:43
So they can do that. It has to be on it.
27:45
So I think the good thing in music is this seems to be very
27:48
much under the control of estates and families at the
27:50
moment. It's not something that like the
27:52
record labels aren't doing this, but but yeah, I don't know.
27:56
I mean, I was just thinking about all the artists I love who
27:59
are dead and how many of them I'd like to see in avatar form
28:02
or which we make we discussed in lock in which ones.
28:05
We'll talk about that in Lock In.
28:06
Yeah, but yeah, it's it's difficult, but I think the good
28:09
thing here is Jack Osborne was going on YouTube and answering
28:11
questions from fans. So at least there is a channel
28:15
here for fans of what you say. We don't like that idea.
28:18
And he might say, but we're doing this and they might go,
28:20
oh, that sounds better. So there's a, there's a dialogue
28:22
which is. Talking of artists who were
28:24
alive and trying something new, Richie Horton famously performs
28:29
as Plastic Man and as Richie Horton, and is very good at
28:32
making sort of very heavy, minimal techno.
28:37
He's very sort of experimental with technology and music, and
28:40
he's released something which is perhaps the opposite of
28:43
Nosebleed techno. Yeah, well, this is like a thing
28:46
he released five years ago that's now getting remastered.
28:48
So, so we're in the kind of the the reissues phase of AI music,
28:53
which is kind of. So he worked with his starter
28:55
called Endale, and he basically gave them a bunch of sounds and
28:58
beats and loops. He kind of gave them some
29:01
fragments. And then the AI of Endale put
29:03
that together into a soundscape that you could listen to.
29:06
And it was designed for focusing.
29:08
So if you're working or if you're kind of concentrating,
29:10
relaxing, actually, Side Story, I, I interviewed him back then
29:15
around that and oh God, the first thing he spotted when I,
29:18
we had a Zoom, he saw I had a synth in the background.
29:21
He's like, oh, you like synths? And I was immediately more out
29:23
of my depth. And I've been in any Zoom call
29:25
ever. He's, I've also, I've met Richie
29:27
a couple of times and he's a really nice guy and he's totally
29:30
enthusiastic about what he does with his music.
29:33
And he really believes that, like, music is a force for good.
29:36
And he's, he's a really, like, inspiring musician.
29:39
I think anyway, so this soundscape that Endo released
29:42
through its app, it's been streamed for more than 5 million
29:44
hours. And they basically they
29:46
apparently, but it was about focusing, but they found people
29:49
with ADHD were finding it and saying this helps us like the
29:53
audience didn't expect came to it.
29:54
So they've basically reworked it and remastered it for this year.
29:58
But it just feels like to me, this is one of those examples
30:00
where like to your point earlier on, this artist who's dead can't
30:04
consent to their their stuff being remixed in someone else's
30:07
style. But Richard is very much alive.
30:10
He's working with this company, he's excited about it, and what
30:14
they've made is something new that sits apart from.
30:17
Yeah, it's, it's a third thing, isn't it?
30:19
And the functional music baked in, Yeah, Which is?
30:21
Kind of a term that like people get people a bit rude about it,
30:24
functional music, but music to help you focus.
30:27
Now, you could you could get a random AI to spurt out two hours
30:31
of music when you're doing your homework or your work, or you
30:34
could listen to this thing that Richie Orton has put his
30:36
humanity into. And it's fully.
30:39
Yeah. So it's, I think it's a, it's a
30:41
good example of for all we might be cynical about some of the
30:44
other AI music remixing stuff, this is a good example of an
30:47
artist actually having agency, I think so, yeah.
30:50
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, this is one of
30:52
those things. I mean, this is like you say,
30:53
this has been around for nearly six years.
30:54
I, I remember I got an, an early version of this Infinite Plastic
30:59
Man app or whatever it was called from Endel and I, I once
31:04
this is pre COVID and pre children, I put this on.
31:07
I put it on at a party in Berlin and no one noticed.
31:09
It was just it just fitted in with the kind of minimal techno
31:12
soundtrack that was already on. Berlin children's parties.
31:15
Yeah, that's right. Do.
31:16
You know, I, I saw him, he supported The Chemical Brothers
31:18
once. So we already played after them
31:19
because of the writer. And yeah, actually, my nose
31:22
actually bled. And I felt so proud of myself.
31:24
It was like, I've been to a techno performance where my nose
31:27
is bled is proper techno. He would actually appreciate
31:30
that, I think. And the final thing in this
31:33
section is that vinyl traditionally is one of the sort
31:38
of worst things that you could make because it's made out of
31:41
PVC and there's a lot of chemicals that are bad that are
31:44
part of that process. And then of course everybody
31:46
wants 180 gram vinyl, which is heavy to transport and there's a
31:49
big carbon footprint and blah, blah, blah.
31:52
But now you can make vinyl out of recycled records.
31:57
We discussed that a couple of weeks ago.
31:58
But but the question that every audio file has is do they
32:02
actually sound any good? Yeah.
32:04
And when music is working with a company called GZ Media to find
32:07
out, which is kind of the concept is like, Once Upon a
32:10
time, if you if you made a physical piece of media that no
32:15
one wanted to buy, you had to go out into the desert and bury it
32:18
in a landfill like Atari, famously with game cartridges
32:22
did. But this is.
32:24
Yeah. So basically Warner, Warner and
32:25
Jasmine, they took 10,000 unsold records, don't know which ones.
32:29
Maybe the last Ed Sheeran album, who knows?
32:33
And they shredded them start by, which sounds quite fun.
32:35
I hope it's. I hope.
32:36
I hope it's jumping into a big bath with hammers.
32:38
But I assume it's a machine process and then they press new
32:42
records and like some of these new records have like 10%
32:44
recycled material and some of them were 100% and then ran all
32:48
manner of audio file tests to test.
32:50
Well, it was about is the audio, is there a difference in the
32:53
audio quality? And also importantly, the the,
32:57
the perceived audio quality. So actually people listening to
32:59
it. How warm is it?
33:01
Well, that's it, you know, And so you play me anything, I can
33:04
barely hear differences between, you know, someone blaring out
33:06
their phone speaker and a big system because my ears are
33:08
terrible. But and but what they found was
33:11
that there were, there were minor differences, but
33:12
comparable, comparable listening quality.
33:15
And it does not inherently compromise perceived audio
33:18
because if people listen to it and we're like, sounds fine.
33:21
Which? Is is I think, a good a good
33:24
sign? For sure.
33:25
I mean, I think, you know, also if I was being cynical for a
33:28
change, I would say that a lot of people buying vinyl are
33:30
buying it for partially for listening, partially for
33:34
displaying and they're probably not listening to them on record
33:38
players that are particularly high quality anyway.
33:40
So what's the difference? And you know we're.
33:43
Going to have letters? Yeah, you're in trouble now.
33:46
I'll go to bat for the audio files, but I we've written about
33:50
in a musical eye as well, a German company that produces a
33:54
record sort of another type of recycled plastic record called
33:59
Eco Record, which is a sort of injection moulded version of
34:01
records. And they're made from the cycle
34:03
plastic bottles. And the last Coldplay album, for
34:05
instance, was released this way. A moon shaped pool.
34:08
No, wait, that's Radiohead. The the the moon titled one the
34:11
course. I did something about a moon.
34:14
Anyway, that one had a stick on the front saying this record is
34:17
made of nine recycled bottles recovered from the ocean.
34:19
And that all feels really, really good.
34:21
And of course the question audiophile question is BS.
34:23
But do they sound as good? You know, so I went a couple of
34:26
weeks ago to an event in Berlin in a one of those audiophile
34:30
high end record stores that I would never dare to go into
34:32
because it's got like $2,000,000 worth of record players in it.
34:36
And they did exactly that. They had two records, 1 pressed
34:39
the traditional way, one on this eco record and they played them
34:43
on the same sound system which I think I figured I had a value of
34:47
about €150,000. And it's mid range.
34:51
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's yeah, it's a sort of pocket money 1
34:54
and I couldn't tell the difference.
34:55
I mean, and and they were really played through these incredible
34:57
speakers. I couldn't tell tell the
35:00
difference. Maybe someone could, but I mean,
35:02
I mean if you put. Some light at the back going oh,
35:04
the high end, oh. Yeah, that isn't very warm.
35:07
It's kind of lukewarm. Anyway, recycled vinyl is
35:11
definitely the future, I think. And also apparently the pricing
35:13
of making these records is only marginally above traditional
35:16
vinyl. And that's a really good thing
35:18
is what will make a change. So and.
35:20
It's the thing we haven't talked about, isn't it?
35:21
We'd like 19 years. We think we're 19 years now into
35:23
the vinyl revival, 19 years of growth.
35:26
I think we have to stop. Calling it a revival now.
35:27
Well, yeah, right. But I think we'll, I think most
35:30
of us, I'm guilty of this, certainly Go.
35:31
This is brilliant news. Vinyl's wonderful, but we don't
35:36
really talk about the planetary impact of this.
35:38
And then like I say, it's not just about the manufacturing of
35:41
the vinyl, which has a certain impact, but also, yeah, if you
35:43
don't, if they don't sell, what? So I think it's good that people
35:48
are tackling that issue, but because I think it's exciting
35:50
that vinyl has been on this long term surge and if that can now
35:55
be a sustainable business climate wise.
35:58
And anything recyclable is good, right?
36:00
Recycle plastic bottles, recycle vinyl into new vinyl.
36:03
That is a really huge leap. And it's great that they're
36:06
getting the costs down to, you know, per price, very, very
36:09
close to traditional vinyl. And it gives labels and teams an
36:13
option and that and, and the artist can drive that option and
36:16
say, no, I want recycled vinyl, you know?
36:18
And good that labels like Warner Music is doing these tests with
36:21
another company. It's not just like someone's
36:23
doing the technology and then having to sell it to labels.
36:24
Labels is seeing this and going we want to be involved in.
36:27
And finally, Stu Banja Banja Banja.
36:31
For those of you who may not know what we're talking about, I
36:36
you may be wondering, do I have this song cued up?
36:38
Yes, I do. Of course you do.
36:46
OK, so you can fill us in on what this is, but that is now a
36:49
preserved cultural artefact in the UK.
36:52
Stu, are we drunk or is something happening here?
36:55
Yeah, go home, Brits. Now, this is a so this is a 2003
36:58
viral Flash animation. Now we'll have to explain Flash
37:02
now to anyone who was born in the last week.
37:04
Flash, of course, the famous animation technology that led
37:07
humans into very bad ways, including introductions for
37:09
websites where you had to watch animation before you could get
37:12
in. But it was also huge.
37:14
But it was, it was, it was our, it was our, our, our rage,
37:18
people's memes and games and animation.
37:21
And there's this guy called Mr. Weeble.
37:23
Not his real name. Maybe, maybe his real name.
37:27
Definitely not his real name. He's a British animator.
37:29
And he made this. It's like basically, yeah.
37:30
It's like, it's like what you say.
37:32
It's deliberately rudimentary animation with Badgers, clip art
37:36
Badgers appearing and it's an earworm.
37:40
And yet so the British Film Institute has officially
37:42
preserved it, which apparently involves this is this is
37:45
fascinating contacting the creator, but not just saying can
37:49
we preserve your thing? It's like, have you got the
37:51
original file? And I mean, I don't know how
37:53
many original files or things you were doing in 2003.
37:56
You've got, you can access. Yeah, because the original
37:59
files, they sound warmer when you listen to them.
38:01
Don't. They and then they and then they
38:03
store it in two robot operated tape libraries for posterity in
38:07
different places, obviously because one of them burnt down
38:09
then the other. One was still there.
38:12
But it's it's it's I mean the BFI.
38:15
So they're they're kind of our what they're our publicly funded
38:18
Film Institute, aren't they? And they've also they've also
38:21
preserved Charlie bit my finger, the famous YouTube video that
38:25
what these two things were the kind of headlines.
38:28
But it does make you think like this stuff is silly perhaps, but
38:32
it is part of people's history. But when it's digital media, it
38:37
could be done in a technology. It no longer works stored on a
38:40
on a format that no longer can be accessed.
38:43
So this work is, I think, important.
38:44
Even if we, you know, badger, badger, badger might make people
38:47
who who don't know it go, what is this?
38:49
Why aren't you preserving the greatest music that was created
38:52
ever, you know? I think it is up there, isn't
38:54
it? I mean, I remember when this I'm
38:55
old enough to remember when this came out and it emerged on the
38:58
message boards of a website called Beta, which is still
39:00
running and is a sort of home for all this ridiculous sort of
39:03
animation and pictures and stuff like that.
39:05
And, and I remember it very clearly because it was it was
39:07
very, very new. Hadn't seen anything like that
39:09
before and it was very impactful.
39:10
So I totally understand why it's been preserved.
39:13
And of course, this is the argument, you go serious for a
39:15
moment of the sort of Internet Archive platforms that are are
39:19
pulling in all of the creative input of of humanity and storing
39:24
it and saying, well, you know, these video games, it might not
39:27
work on a platform in the future.
39:28
So we're making that work. You know, these songs, we don't
39:30
just because they're around now doesn't mean they'll be there
39:32
forever. Of course, that frustrates a lot
39:34
of rights holders who see their work being infringed from their
39:38
perspective. But it does have this is
39:40
important, right and preservation.
39:41
Is something right as a new? Yeah.
39:42
So you know, this is when Spotify comes out and goes.
39:44
You know what? You can.
39:45
You can have Jimi Hendrix covering Badger Badger Badger.
39:47
Now OK, sold. Now this leads me onto I'm going
39:50
to leave everyone with one earworm.
39:53
Ten years after this animation came out, it was remade.
39:56
Have you had did you ever hear this?
39:57
It was rerecorded as Save the Badger Badger Badger.
40:01
Now, can you guess who played guitar on the cover that it's
40:04
called Save the Badger Badger Badger.
40:06
There's a clue there. Brian May out of Queen Sir Brian
40:09
May played guitar and it also has shouting from Brian Blessed,
40:14
the actor. And this was released as part of
40:17
a campaign against badger culling in the UK.
40:20
So. Everyone, now that he's heard
40:22
Badger Badger for the first time, now go and look for Save
40:24
the Badger Badger Badger and enjoy what is even more bonkers
40:29
and I guess in 10 years time might get preserved in its turn.
40:32
I will absolutely link to that below the podcast.
40:35
And that's it for us this week. Thank you very much for
40:38
listening. As ever, if you're enjoying the
40:39
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40:41
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41:02
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41:07
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41:10
and observations. We want your vibes, anything
41:14
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41:17
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41:18
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41:21
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41:26
So that's it from me, Joe Sparrow and him.
41:29
Stuart Dredge for this week. See you next week.