Latest / Student Ministry Conversations / 263 | Digital Faith: Discernment In A Loud World | SMC Podcast
Transcript
- speaker-0: Hey and welcome back to the podcast. are excited to be back for week three of our series for July. And as David said before we got on, it's been crazy. July is always the month that is just absolutely bonkers. ⁓ And I don't really know why. I feel like June is crazy too. But ⁓ something about June, it's close enough to the school year to where we still feel like, all right, yeah, rhythm, routine, we got this, we got this, we got this. And then it just comes unhinged in July. And I don't know why. But maybe you don't feel that. But I definitely feel it. And David can share the sentiment of the fact that just July is crazy. speaker-1: For a ministry standpoint, June is like a children's ministry month and youth ministry is more of a July. But when you are both youth and worship and you end up helping the children too, you just never stop. And so by the time you get to August, you're just dead. And it's like we're supposed to be on for the fall. And I'm like, who speaker-0: That's a solid point. Uh-huh. No, that's a that's a solid point dude. I yeah hundred percent ⁓ No, I mean that that makes a lot of sense especially with the idea of just like you know there's so much going on and really July is youth ministry month with mission trips and camps and all the things and you're trying to figure out what's gonna happen in August and So there's lots of different things that go on but with that like I think it goes hand in hand with the episode for today. ⁓ And so with that, we are talking and continuing the series and continuing the idea of faith in a digital world. And while we might feel the physical nature of the chaos of the day to day and week to week, we also have students that are dealing with so much stuff when it comes to pretty much Unlimited screen time over the summer unless they're working ⁓ and realistically most jobs nowadays like kids are on their phones more than they work Which I don't know kids for some reason figured out hey, you know I can I can get a job and then be paid to watch my phone, which is also pretty magical but so we talked about who students are becoming online and then last week we talked about social media comparison and contentment and This week we are looking at into the idea of just having discernment in a loud world. ⁓ And so just the idea is that students don't need more information, they have it. The idea that we need to kind of address is the fact that students need filters so they can process that information that's out there. And so students are constantly hearing different ideas and The thing is, is it's opinions, it's trends, it's advice, it's truths. And if you're not watching, I totally air quoted that. And most of it sounds confident. Like there's some people out there that are absolutely just spitting bold face lies and it makes it look like they're professional research. I don't want to get political, but it cracked me up. The CNBC just released like this. article about the 10 worst states to live in in the United States and Texas was number two. ⁓ And it was like, really? I don't feel like that's the case because it seems like everybody's moving to Texas. That's why. So, well no, basically they were saying like Texas has low healthcare, Texas has low all these things and it was just basically like they cherry picked like the three things that people might have a problem with with Texas and we're like well it's the worst place to live because of these three things. But then someone, someone on the other side, I think it was Ben Shapiro or someone, was like I do find it ironic that the top 10 places like worst places to live by the CNBC post are all red states. And he was like, so he was like, not to mention red states. He said five out of the 10 are recently turned red states from blue states. So he was like, I don't there might not be a correlation there. Yeah. But it was just one of those things. He was like, you know, I so like, I'm just talking on the mindset of, know, like these these truths that we're discussing, like most of it sounds confident and in all reality. whether it's true or not, confidence is there. And so these different conversations and these different things that students are engaging in, well, to a student without a filter, it's like this idea of like, ⁓ man, well, they said it, so it has to be true. And so, confidence doesn't equal truth. And so the question becomes, how do we begin to teach students to know what to trust? And so as leaders, at the role of a leader. We're not just teaching answers, but we have to be developing discernment within our students because students won't always have us in the room. ⁓ But they always will have people that are speaking into their lives. And the idea is that, and I mean, hopefully you know this by now already, but if not, like this is something that definitely need to take into consideration. You will never be the only voice in a student's life. Parents will never be the only voice in a student's life. And so the thing is, is your goal isn't to be the only voice that students hear. Your goal is to help them evaluate every voice. Your goal isn't to be the only voice students hear. It is to help them evaluate every voice. And so I think that's the big thing with our culture and our society right now. Students send me stuff occasionally on Instagram. It's like hey, is this what what is this? Like I've never even heard about this and I'm like, ⁓ yeah Like this is really really cool Like this is deep diving into biblical archaeology or something of that nature or it's like dude, that's absolute crap someone just made that up on the spot made a video about it and dang they sound confident but This this this this and this all prove it to not exist or not be true or whatever And so I think that has to be the conversation, David, is it's just like, you how do we begin to build this almost more of a build a ministry model? Because it's really not just one-on-one with students. We need to be doing this as well to where ⁓ we're teaching students as a whole through our ministry to evaluate these voices that they're hearing. And I think part of it, it has to start with us. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, absolutely. ⁓ and just letting them know that they have a place, like that's really probably where we start is like when I look or you know, listening to you talking about students sending you stuff on Instagram, like that's a great spot. Number one, they've gotta feel safe to be able to share things that might be controversial. Because here's the thing too, you'll get students that will say something and they will they'll buy it hook, line, and sinker, and they need to know that they're safe to share things that they know. You're probably going to disagree with. ⁓ you know, again, we didn't necessarily mean to make any of this political, but let's be honest, a lot of the videos and stuff that I get sent are stuff that are politically charged. That it may not be like straight up CNBC or you know, Fox News or whatever it might be, but it may be a situation where it's ⁓ There's some level of like when you when you start to peel back some of the layers, like what Brent said there, ⁓ well, all of these statistical truths or facts are, you know, red states that some of them just became that. And there might be a level of like, I'm actually really mad that that state swung a different direction, you know? And so when you start to peel back layers and stuff like that, they have to know. that they can trust that it's not just gonna turn into some keyboard warrior style argumentative thing. Because sometimes, especially as adults, ⁓ one of the things that just drives me nuts is that sometimes we we talk down to students like they're beneath us in some way. Like, ⁓ well, you're only thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, whatever, what do you know? kind of situation. But these students are smart. They're not dumb. Don't treat ⁓ like they're children, you know? If they are true Trusting you enough to share you share this information, even if they come at you strong, like you know, well, this says this, and so the Bible is completely wrong, and we've got it wrong, and it's all like because I hear that a lot, you know, because there's obviously a big battle of you know, the Bible and and is it a hundred percent true, or is there you know, and trying to interpret and stuff like that, and that's gonna be an age old battle anyway. But they need to know that they could come to you and you're gonna be grateful. gracious in the conversation. You know, we can we can point out I mean it ultimately comes back to the the basic biblical truth that we've somehow all forgotten. Tell ⁓ the truth in love. You know, like maybe it's just that simple. Be a safe place. Tell them the truth and love with grace and mercy and all of that. Help them help them see it. And if they don't come to your point, that's okay. Because here's the thing as long as Jesus is at the center, it's okay for us to disagree on certain things. Now, obviously there are some things that are really fundamental and important and we may have to kinda keep working and keep praying, but again, it's you know, we've said this so many times and every Every platform has said this. All we can really do is show them the way and hope that they latch on. You know? And if they don't, we just keep being present and keep showing up and sh keep showing them love and grace and mercy through all of it. speaker-0: Well, and think that's a that's definitely a good point. And I think the other dynamic of it, especially on a ministry setting, is just the fact that, you know, like if we are trying to teach them to use a filter in the world around them, we have to teach them to use a filter on us to. speaker-1: That's good. speaker-0: And so like I think a lot of times especially and it's not just youth pastors a lot of pastors fall into this category too towards just this mindset of like well you don't trust me I did the research I did this and it's like well what if I did research too and my research challenges your research And so I it's not necessarily that it's like well yours is a lie and like you're you're leading people to hell because you're lying la-la-la-la but it's like I have been corrected by students before. And there's two ways to take that. I can get really grumpy and like passive aggressive and like kind of be selfish about it or I can be like, Hey, you know, I don't think I've read that before, but that that is a solid point. Let me go, let me do my own research on that. Yeah. And then I'll come back and always identify that. Yes. speaker-1: at the end of the day we should hope that people are pulling out their Bibles and fact checking us. And if they're not, then we haven't created a good culture. ⁓ if if someone corrects you, even even if you know they're wrong and their correction, I always try really hard to say thank you so much for being willing to and I think I usually say something like, Thank you so much for being bold and and speaking Because hey, I'm a flawed human being too. And though I I get up here and I try to research everything that I put out there, it is possible I can misinterpret something. And so thank you so much for being, you bold and then it's a great opportunity to show the rest of the group, hey, y'all keep following that example because if you if I say something that is ⁓ that you believe may be wrong or you want to challenge it, totally free and open to do that. ⁓ and we can have that conversation and it teaches them in a really important important life skill. They don't have to just accept everything blindly that they're hearing. And maybe that's maybe that's the overarching conversation in all of this is sometimes we just believe everything we read on the internet. And yes it's a joke ⁓ that we we say it's like well you can't believe everything on the internet. But the fact of the matter is most of us get our news from Facebook or Instagram or YouTube. You know? And so we are in a way believing what we we hear on the internet because that's our primary source for Everything. speaker-0: Yeah. Well, and we all have our own tunnels of information. I mean, like, whether or not it's a particular podcast or a news page on social media or whatever, we all have the people that we go to for our news. But in all reality, like, I think the sneaking suspicion in especially American culture is the fact of like, well, we all know that the news is lying. Like, we all know that, like, whether you're this side or this side, whether you're Christian, or whether or not, like we all come to the idea that like there is news out there that is just absolute garbage. Like if they're just spitting crap out just for the sake of spitting it out. And a lot of times it's on both sides of the spectrum. Like people want to play it to whatever light they see beneficial or... Nowadays, especially with social media as all of you know, it's just this idea of like, you know when we have this thing I can present it this way and it's probably not going to be read as much or I can present it this way and it's gonna triple or quadruple the amount of views that's gonna get on it. I'm gonna start a great battle in the comments, which comments are gonna feed more views and all this stuff. And it's like, you know, like we literally kind of have bred this society in this culture that is just arguing. ⁓ And so like, when we do this though, like we can't just give answers. because students are following into this kind of mindset and they're hearing from their parents, well, you can't trust what you read, you can't trust what you hear, you can't trust. And while that's said and good, like, we can't stop there, if that makes sense. You can't just say, don't believe anything on the internet. No, I need to teach you what you can and can't believe. And so... Yeah, so we need to, especially in going back to the kind of ministry mindset of like, you know, we need to be inviting them to filter what we say. We need to be teaching students how to ask, is this true? We need to be asking students, we need to be challenging students to ask and wrestle with the question, does this align with scripture? The scripture that I know and I've read. And if they don't, man, what a powerful question to be like, hey, I've never read that before. Can you tell me where that is? Yeah. And so like we need to be challenging students to do that. And then also, what is this leading me towards? I think a lot of times like these conversations, especially with that last question, is like, you know, we I think everybody gets this question at some point of like, well, like, I think God wants me to like, not be friends with this person anymore. And so I'm just going to like be mean to them and like push them away. And it's like, what exactly are you trying to achieve with that? And so I think a lot of times it's like, well, this idea from God came to me, but I'm going to do the most ungodly route possible to make it happen. And so it's like, what is this leading me towards? And a lot of times, especially with my kids and youth students, it's just this idea of, man, I'm junk. I feel worthy. I'm not good enough. don't it's like, you know, man, what is that? What is that leading you towards? What are you doing that is allowing that to kind of? I don't know. I mean, it's it's it's really, really. It's damaging. speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. One of my favorite little kind of pocket sermons that I keep, ⁓ and preached it so many times is basically if if you can't tell, I'm a huge switchfoot fan, ⁓ so is Brent. And ⁓ I've done whole sermons on this is your life, are you who you wanna be? ⁓ and I feel like and I always play the song because it's one of those songs that truly challenges like the the direction of my life. Am I am I headed in a direction that I want to be in? ⁓ is, you know, and asking the really important questions like the things that I'm saying, the things that I'm watching, the things that I'm studying, the things, the people that I'm hanging around, is this leading me towards a direction that is positive for my life? Is it something that's going to lead to good conversations? Where ⁓ it's making a difference in somebody else's life. Because if not, then I need to maybe reconsider the things that I am ⁓ doing and saying ⁓ and the people that I'm hanging around. And and I know we talk about that a lot in in ministry ⁓ circles, ⁓ especially as youth pastors, we are constantly ⁓ explaining to students the importance of the people they hang around and the things that they're watching and listening to. But I also think very similar to what Brent said earlier is we need to explain why and and what a filter looks like for. that ⁓ because if we don't They're just blindly trying to figure out what's good and what's not. You know, and sometimes I think we do a fair amount of assuming that they just know who they should be around and what they should be studying and stuff like that. But the truth is there's a a lot of things out there that will ⁓ that look like the right thing. You know, I mean we talk about the whole wolves and sheep's clothing and stuff like that. And if it's easy for us to fall into, how much easier is it for them to follow through as they're you know, some of them are brand new. Christians trying to figure it out. And I'll and I mean I can't tell you how a great example of that is how many times somebody has said, Hey, this is a really good song. It's it's a it's a worship song because they reference God in it. And I'm like, Yeah, but they also reference a lot of other really bad things. Like it's basically like I remember one particular it was a rap song that was talking about ⁓ basically your your standard pop rap song where it's sex, drugs and money ultimately, ⁓ in a club, ⁓ and pursuing a girl and after like towards the end of the chorus he says, God pray for me. ⁓ I'm about to do something I shouldn't do basically and they're like, Yeah, but he said he asked God to pray. So it's a word mm No, he's saying God pray for me, I'm a sinner because I'm about to do some filthy things and they're like, huh? And they just don't grasp the concept. And I'm like, just because you say God doesn't make it a Christian song. But you know, it's easy for us And it's so easy for us to think about that, but in their mind they're like, No, they said God, so it's gotta be good. speaker-0: Explicitives before God speaker-1: Like like he's recognizing that he's a sinner and isn't you know, isn't the point of grace to recognize where where we you know and ask for forgiveness, so he's asking for forgiveness and almost like for something he's about to do, not what he just did. So like like a a Christian song would recognize my brain is messed up and I need you to interf you know, intervene and I'm not gonna do that thing and I'm gonna ask people to help me. But there again that speaker-0: Ask for forgiveness after not permission before. speaker-1: Exactly, but it it gives us an opportunity to speak into that and show them what the difference is. And it it may be subtle or it may be in that case very like how do you not see that? Well, yeah until they're taught that they don't know that. speaker-0: Sure. No, and that makes total sense. And so with all that stuff, I mean, we're just basically challenging our students to come up with this idea of, know, like critical thinking is a lost art in students today. And then also like critical thinking bleeds into, I believe, spiritual maturity, because the more that we can challenge what we see, challenge what we hear, challenge what we think, and the more that we can utilize those as opportunities to push ourselves further and further into our relationship with Jesus, I think that's a huge idea. And then the other idea that we always kind of have to tackle is this idea that like, we are moving students from the second-hand faith aspect to a first-hand faith, and that's a huge, huge area of importance because with that critical thinking, with that growth of spiritual maturity, they have to be able to move to a personal ownership of their faith. And so like all of this kind of pushes and challenges students to go more and more and more towards it. ⁓ And so with that, I think that's a huge idea because when we go through all these, like when we're challenging students to think for their own, they have to be able to claim what they know too. And so that's the other half of using this discernment and using this idea of using discernment in a loud world is you're filtering out what's true and what's not or what's good and what's not. But then also you have to be able to claim it and continue to build on the foundation that you have so that is a new and better thing for you to have in the future. ⁓ And so how do students learn this? Well, first off, they learn by the world and they learn by the people that they're watching. Hopefully this isn't a shocker. They're watching you Yeah listening to this episode and so they're watching how you respond to culture They're watching how you talk about difficult topics They're watching how you engage with truth All of that stuff matters. It is super, super important that they understand these ideas because you're not showing them just how to think. You're showing them what to think about. And so like huge, huge, huge dynamic. it's like, you know, we have it plastered on our wall in the youth room. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is commendable, lovely, like dwell on these things. Like if that's not a mindset that we have in our youth group, like we have to start teaching that because, and I go back to that verse all the time. It's like, you know, hey, you were having these thoughts. Is that in here? Stop doing it. Or like you were watching this thing online, but is that anything on here? Stop doing it. And it gives them this measurable, gageable, tangible thing that they can start using as a filter to go through and make these beginning decisions. And sometimes those decisions aren't that easy, but I mean, it is a huge, ⁓ And for students learning, it is a huge idea. And so just doing stuff like ⁓ giving them the idea of Philippians 8, or giving them the idea in Romans where it talks about present your body as a living sacrifice. ⁓ Use these different ideas and use these different moments in scripture to where it can become more than just words. It can become something that's a measurable thing for them to do. And so I think that that's a huge dynamic as far as practicality. What does it practically look like to actually show discernment? Well, use something to help you discern. So, ⁓ yeah, at the end of the day, this is something that I think needs to be as hands-on as possible. ⁓ You can't just tell them, hey, good luck figuring out what's true and what's not. Or you can't just hand them a Bible and say, hey, the Bible's true, whatever the Bible says. Because while that is information, if you hand a student with no knowledge of the Bible, a Bible, and you just give it to them and say, good luck, you've pretty much lost them. speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. I think it's okay too, like carve out time in your ministry, find a good time and space to sit down and talk about things that are happening over the week. ⁓ Sunday school has become a really good opportunity for us to strategically have a conversation and and we've let those students know, like, hey, if you hear about something, you see something and it's hard or confusing, let's talk about it, like You know, ⁓ we had a conversation about the bombings that were happening in you know, the Middle East and and why, you know, I had one student that was like, This is horrible and I had another student that was like, I think it's necessary. Like, okay, let's have a conversation about it. You know, and and you know, I the big thing I always say is like, listen, we're not trying to solve world hunger here. We're not trying to come up with a solution to everything, but we can talk about it civilly. And ultimately what I'm trying to help these students understand is that if we are willing To come to the table fully disagreeing with one another, but remembering to keep love and Jesus at the center of the conversation, to steer it, to go, hey, ⁓ we're gonna we're gonna listen to both sides. We're gonna have civil conversation. And if it gets to a point where we lose civility, we're just gonna take a step back and we're gonna pray and we're gonna move on. And, you know, they're just to show them, hey. If you're getting if you're teetering to the edge of just absolute anger and and and ⁓ ultimately hatred in your heart, you've gone too far. So let's let's take a moment, let's let's see how far we can go. And when we get to a certain parameter that we have set as a group together, then we're going to take a moment. And what I do is usually, if there's two students that are opposed to each other, I've actually modeled saying, Okay, you two that are the at the most odds, so to speak. I want y'all both to pray. And so, all right, we're gonna we're gonna stop there and we're gonna pray and I want you to pray and I want you to pray. And w include in your prayer thankfulness for the opportunity to have a conversation and I want you to also thank God for the opportunity to learn something. Different than what you would normally do. So basically they're pre the two sides are praying for one another. And what it's teaching us is the importance of remembering that that person on the other side of the line is a human being trying to figure out life too and navigate life. And if we can remember that at the end of the day that we are brothers and sisters in Christ, and it is okay to disagree and still love them and still pray for them, then our world becomes just a little bit better. And if we could if we could do that on a World stage, man. Man, how different would our culture be? Sure. And so I can't I can't change that from a world stage. Yeah. But what I can remember is that my circle of influence here at this church, ⁓ at camp and different places I go, if I can if I can work towards making that one percent better, then the world is already a better place. Maybe it's just my world, but it's a little bit of a better place. And maybe they who knows? God may put them, one of these students on a world stage and that g give them an opportunity to share some of that grace in a w much better way than I ever could. speaker-0: Yeah, no, and the thing is, is it can happen. Like, you can have the student that goes out there and changes the world and has the dramatic impact and influence. I had a kid at 17 that was on a global missions board, which is wild. so... Last comment on what David said is like sometimes, you know, these conversations are coming and sometimes you don't ⁓ If you do have an inkling of an idea that it's coming take a moment to reflect on how you personally view it yourself It's easy even as leaders to fall into comparison to fall into insecurity fall into self-criticism ⁓ But like the time with students isn't just helping them see like the the goal It's also about leading from a place where you believe what you're saying too. And so I think that's a huge dynamic that we have to kind of focus on. And the thing is, the students don't need to be sheltered from every voice. They need to be equipped to navigate them. And that's where your leadership matters most. And so as we close, wise students aren't the ones who hear less. They're the ones who filter better. David, will you close us? speaker-1: Absolutely. God, we just thank you for the opportunity to have kind of a quick conversation about the things that our students are hearing and ultimately what we're hearing and seeing and and feeling. ⁓ and that's a big part of it too, is is the feeling versus logic and all of that, Lord. Help us to have the discernment and the wisdom to filter the things that are important for us and and necessary for our growth and and the things that distract from that or detract from that, Lord. Help us to ⁓ to filter those things out. Lord, help us to be a graceful and kind voice in in the lives of our students and in the people that we love in our our church and our community, Lord, to ⁓ to help them to better see you. Because ultimately, Lord, no matter what the situation is, we always want to be pointing people ⁓ directly to you. ⁓ Father, thank you so much for this platform. Thank you for the opportunity that we have to ⁓ to to do ministry, Lord. Sometimes it's it's easy. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's frustrating, sometimes it's fun. And so, Father, for all the things in between, God, we thank you for each and every person who ⁓ who is out there doing the work at whatever ⁓ level that they're doing it. God, we we're just grateful that they not only care about their students, but Lord, to to take the time to listen to something like this that could help ⁓ help lead them as well. So Lord, we thank you and we love you. We certainly praise you. It's your name we pray. Amen.