Latest / Legally Brunette / Eva LaRue’s 12-year nightmare. What she wants you to know.

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Eva LaRue’s 12-year nightmare. What she wants you to know. · Legally Brunette

0:13
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome back to Killer Thriller DOCU Edition. I
0:17
Speaker 1: am Jen Fessler. So what happens when your nightmare isn't
0:21
Speaker 1: something you can wake up from? For actress Eva LaRue,
0:24
Speaker 1: what began as a deeply disturbing experience with a stalker
0:27
Speaker 1: became a year's long ordeal that affected her sense of safety,
0:30
Speaker 1: her family, her career, and the way she moved through
0:32
Speaker 1: the world. Now Eva is telling that story in the
0:35
Speaker 1: documentary My Nightmare Stalker, the Evil LaRue story, taking viewers
0:39
Speaker 1: inside and experience that is frightening, not just because of
0:42
Speaker 1: what happened, but because of how difficult it can be
0:45
Speaker 1: to know where the line is between harassment, obsession, and
0:48
Speaker 1: a genuine threat. So I have been a fan of
0:52
Speaker 1: Eva's for a long time. I watched her on General
0:55
Speaker 1: Hospital and then CSI Miami. I had no idea till
1:00
Speaker 1: I watched the documentary what she has been through. It
1:04
Speaker 1: was quite incredible to see her resilience. I am really
1:08
Speaker 1: really excited to talk to her and to talk about
1:10
Speaker 1: her beautiful daughter, Kaya, who was also tormented. So you, guys,
1:15
Speaker 1: without further ado, Hello miss Eva.
1:18
Speaker 2: How are you? Thanks for having me?
1:20
Speaker 1: How am I? I'm okay. I have to tell you.
1:24
Speaker 1: I finished the documentary and was I felt not okay
1:28
Speaker 1: for a little while.
1:30
Speaker 2: I was.
1:31
Speaker 1: It was so hard to watch, just upsetting and also
1:36
Speaker 1: because I'm a fan I have been for so long.
1:39
Speaker 1: I watched you on all my children and CSI, and
1:43
Speaker 1: I had no idea what you had been through. Did
1:46
Speaker 1: people know? Was it just me that had was the
1:48
Speaker 1: story out at all before the doc.
1:50
Speaker 3: No, it really wasn't. It was only my close friends
1:53
Speaker 3: and family who knew. I never went public with it
1:56
Speaker 3: because I felt because not knowing who he was and
2:00
Speaker 3: not being able to find out who he was literally
2:03
Speaker 3: technology had not caught up.
2:04
Speaker 2: With us at that point.
2:06
Speaker 3: I didn't want to give him the glory that he
2:09
Speaker 3: was dying for.
2:10
Speaker 2: I didn't want to give him any.
2:11
Speaker 3: Publicity, that any of the publicity that he wanted, or
2:13
Speaker 3: any more connection or let him feel any more connection
2:18
Speaker 3: or closeness. I just thought that that might activate him
2:21
Speaker 3: even further. So until we found out.
2:23
Speaker 2: Who he was.
2:24
Speaker 3: That was the first time that we actually went to
2:26
Speaker 3: public with it.
2:27
Speaker 1: Was that hard to obviously it was hard. How could
2:30
Speaker 1: it not have been hard? But to walk through life,
2:32
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many people in your face interviewing
2:34
Speaker 1: you about your career, the shows, and you have that
2:39
Speaker 1: that weight just you know, hanging on your should. I
2:43
Speaker 1: don't know how you did it. I really don't. That
2:45
Speaker 1: was part of what amazed me is how you manage,
2:48
Speaker 1: especially when it came to your beautiful daughter, but the
2:51
Speaker 1: way that you managed to walk through it for years
2:54
Speaker 1: with such grace. I was really I was very struck
2:57
Speaker 1: by that. You know, not an easy thing, not an
2:59
Speaker 1: easy task. Friend.
3:00
Speaker 2: No.
3:01
Speaker 3: And it's it's interesting because when we screened the documentary,
3:03
Speaker 3: and I had had about fifty friends and family that came,
3:08
Speaker 3: some flew out from all over the place to.
3:10
Speaker 2: Watch our you know, the documentary kind of premiere.
3:13
Speaker 3: And even my closest friends and family members were like,
3:18
Speaker 3: oh my god, we didn't even know all the details
3:20
Speaker 3: of it.
3:21
Speaker 2: Because at one at one point, you feel like you're
3:24
Speaker 2: the girl that's crying wolf.
3:26
Speaker 3: Because and I've had so many people who've had who
3:29
Speaker 3: have been in stocker situations say the same thing, because
3:32
Speaker 3: a stalker is sort of this non crime, right because
3:36
Speaker 3: it hasn't happened yet, but it's the crime that is
3:39
Speaker 3: always It's like death by a thousand cuts.
3:42
Speaker 1: I mean, evidence obviously by the sentence that he got,
3:45
Speaker 1: which we could talk about later. He was sentenced and
3:49
Speaker 1: obviously went to jail, but it felt so inadequate to me.
3:52
Speaker 1: We'll get into that.
3:53
Speaker 2: Oh inadequate. Yeah, let's put a pin in that put
3:56
Speaker 2: definitely right.
3:57
Speaker 3: But that whole time, I never kept everybody in my
4:02
Speaker 3: circle abreast of every single bit of information, every single
4:06
Speaker 3: thing that happened, because I kind of equate it to
4:11
Speaker 3: you know, if you have a disease or an illness,
4:13
Speaker 3: or you have, God forbid, you have cancer or something,
4:15
Speaker 3: and instead of every time you talk to your friends
4:17
Speaker 3: and family, you're like.
4:18
Speaker 2: So the cancer is doing this to me, now, you
4:21
Speaker 2: know what I mean?
4:22
Speaker 3: You kind of stopped talking about it unless really big
4:26
Speaker 3: things happen, like really big milds, you know, like.
4:29
Speaker 2: Like traumatic things.
4:31
Speaker 1: Were you in therapy?
4:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were both in therapy during it, and even
4:36
Speaker 3: when we were doing the documentary, we were both really like,
4:40
Speaker 3: you know, had our therapist on speed dial because kind
4:43
Speaker 3: of reliving all that while Cathartic was also reliving all
4:46
Speaker 3: of that, and neither of us had really talked about it,
4:51
Speaker 3: even to each other that in depthly. Really, Yeah, because
4:54
Speaker 3: you know, people aren't normally asking you those kind of
4:57
Speaker 3: in depth questions, and a lot of those things were igniting.
5:01
Speaker 2: Things that we hadn't even really thought about ourselves.
5:04
Speaker 1: You know, even I there were so many things that
5:07
Speaker 1: were striking about the documentary. But your daughter, I mean,
5:11
Speaker 1: obviously she came from you, but I don't at her
5:15
Speaker 1: young age, the strength that she showed dealing with this lunatic.
5:22
Speaker 3: And her particulation was really yes, because again, you know,
5:26
Speaker 3: you're not we're not talking about.
5:29
Speaker 2: This at the dinner table every night.
5:31
Speaker 3: We're not talking about unfortunately, we're not talking about our
5:34
Speaker 3: feelings about it over the course of those twelve years.
5:36
Speaker 3: I mean, in the in the absolute fear inducing situations
5:42
Speaker 3: we are. We're more talking at each other and at
5:45
Speaker 3: other people, but we're not like I guess we never
5:48
Speaker 3: afterwards would say.
5:49
Speaker 2: Okay, like you know, I mean, would say how are
5:53
Speaker 2: you doing? And how are you feel?
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Speaker 3: You know, obviously Mom, you're you're there for all of
5:57
Speaker 3: their feelings, but you're also not asking these weirder, darker questions.
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Speaker 2: Like what did you imagine? What happened? Do you know
6:07
Speaker 2: what I mean? I never asked my daughter, what did
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Speaker 2: you imagine?
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Speaker 1: What happened, she said there was, yes, when she said
6:11
Speaker 1: she was afraid of coming home and you were going
6:14
Speaker 1: to be I don't remember exactly decapitated, and that she
6:17
Speaker 1: was going he was going to hold her as a
6:18
Speaker 1: sex slave. And I am listening to this beautiful young
6:22
Speaker 1: woman think I'm thinking about the fact that she had
6:26
Speaker 1: uphold that Ryan her young mind ran just can't even
6:31
Speaker 1: And I had.
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Speaker 3: No idea that's even what she was going through life
6:35
Speaker 3: imagining until our one of our US attorneys asked her
6:39
Speaker 3: that question, said, but what did you did you you know,
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Speaker 3: in your wildest imaginings, what did you imagine what happened?
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Speaker 3: And I had never asked her that question, maybe because
6:49
Speaker 3: I was hoping.
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Speaker 2: That it wasn't.
6:53
Speaker 3: Living right, Yeah, right, I get that I was gonna
6:56
Speaker 3: want to traumatize her more by saying, what are you imagining?
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Speaker 2: Could have? Yes?
7:00
Speaker 1: You know, God, it was so complicated. How did you
7:02
Speaker 1: when you close your eyes a night, did you do
7:04
Speaker 1: the same? Are you imagining specifics? Like then? You playing
7:08
Speaker 1: out these yes scenarios?
7:10
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. You really become a prisoner of
7:12
Speaker 2: your own mind.
7:13
Speaker 3: Because these crimes have not happened to you yet, and
7:17
Speaker 3: they haven't happened to your daughter yet, but you are
7:20
Speaker 3: living every possibility in your head. So you become your
7:24
Speaker 3: own corator, you know what I mean, You are your
7:27
Speaker 3: own prisoner, because of course you're the one thinking of
7:31
Speaker 3: all the possible ways that could get in, all the
7:33
Speaker 3: possible things that could happen. You're always looking for the
7:36
Speaker 3: escape route or the possible way to get out of
7:38
Speaker 3: a situation or save your daughter or so you're living
7:42
Speaker 3: in a constant state of heightened, heightened fear, of course.
7:46
Speaker 3: And then what's really interesting is when people have said
7:52
Speaker 3: and you know, while while it's beautiful and I and
7:55
Speaker 3: I appreciate it and I'm grateful for it, when people
7:57
Speaker 3: are like, you were so brave, You're so courage to
8:00
Speaker 3: live through this stuff, it it doesn't feel like any
8:03
Speaker 3: of that. Why because it's not what you don't set
8:08
Speaker 3: out in the morning to say, I'm going to be
8:09
Speaker 3: brave and I'm going to be courageous and I'm going
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Speaker 3: to live through this. You are just as a mom
8:15
Speaker 3: getting up and going through the motions because that's what you.
8:18
Speaker 2: Have to do. You're not I totally get brave in
8:21
Speaker 2: the moment. You Okay, you're just having to be because
8:26
Speaker 2: you know what, as moms, we just kind of have to.
8:28
Speaker 3: It's it's not something that you choose, it's just something
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Speaker 3: you have to do.
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Speaker 1: I appreciate that, but I do think that you had options.
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Speaker 1: You could have curled up in a ball. And I
8:39
Speaker 1: don't know that. I okay, So.
8:41
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's even an option.
8:44
Speaker 1: I can I can imagine that there are lots of women.
8:47
Speaker 1: Of course, I picture if you know, this happened to
8:51
Speaker 1: me and I have a daughter as well, and I
8:53
Speaker 1: don't know you functioned right through it, and I don't listen.
8:58
Speaker 1: I get it what you're saying, and as a mother barrier,
9:02
Speaker 1: but I guess I don't know. To me, I was
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Speaker 1: very surprised at the fact that you didn't withdraw into
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Speaker 1: yourself and and go somewhere or move somewhere or run.
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Speaker 1: You didn't do anything.
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Speaker 2: Well, we we did. We had to move three times.
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Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying you could have moved out of
9:17
Speaker 1: the country. You could have. There's I feel like there
9:20
Speaker 1: were things that you didn't. I didn't at least the
9:25
Speaker 1: way it came across to me. I didn't see you
9:29
Speaker 1: missing your life even though you were tortured, right, but
9:33
Speaker 1: you were still in it. You were still working, you
9:34
Speaker 1: were still being a mom. Thank god, your daughter was
9:37
Speaker 1: still going to school. And you know, having.
9:40
Speaker 3: People to say to me too, other people who've had
9:43
Speaker 3: who've been stocked, like you're speaking exactly to the point
9:47
Speaker 3: of stalking victims. It's it's awesome because so many people
9:52
Speaker 3: that I've met and have told me their stories have said,
9:55
Speaker 3: my life got smaller. I had to get smaller. I
9:58
Speaker 3: had to give up so many things because I was
10:01
Speaker 3: afraid of being killed. Because I met two different people
10:05
Speaker 3: who were entertainers, one that was a singer, one that
10:07
Speaker 3: was in a band. They gave up their their careers
10:11
Speaker 3: because they weren't big. They weren't really famous people that
10:15
Speaker 3: you would know, but they were. They had a fantastic
10:17
Speaker 3: career in their town being in a in a you know,
10:21
Speaker 3: like they were getting hired by a lot of weddings.
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Speaker 3: They were a big wedding band or you know, event band,
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Speaker 3: and were very successful.
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Speaker 2: They stopped.
10:30
Speaker 1: But you were, and you were and are a big
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Speaker 1: celebrity and you didn't stop. And I don't know, listen,
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Speaker 1: brave not brave. I'm amazed by it. I'm amazed at
10:41
Speaker 1: the way you function through it, you know, and I thinking,
10:44
Speaker 1: like everybody says, the secret to life is to live
10:46
Speaker 1: in the present right and to not worry about what's
10:48
Speaker 1: coming or what's you can to How do you live?
10:52
Speaker 1: How do you do that? Like you're totally screwed, you
10:55
Speaker 1: can't be How how do you how are you present
10:58
Speaker 1: in a world where you know there is you're reminded
11:01
Speaker 1: constantly in the most heinous ways that you are that
11:05
Speaker 1: there's a threat to you and to your daughter. I
11:08
Speaker 1: don't know, how do you do that? Right? And if
11:10
Speaker 1: that's the only that's the key to happiness, you're kind of.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I really learned to compartmentalize it.
11:19
Speaker 3: While it's always, you know, an operating system in your
11:24
Speaker 3: body and in your mind, it's it has to go
11:27
Speaker 3: into its own compartment or otherwise you.
11:29
Speaker 2: Just cannot you just can't function.
11:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is always in your operating system, and
11:35
Speaker 3: it's always working in your body, like you're you know what.
11:38
Speaker 3: That first year that it was happening, my hair was
11:41
Speaker 3: falling out and clump, my.
11:42
Speaker 2: Eyelashes were falling out. It was so weird.
11:44
Speaker 3: I was working on CSI and I was having to
11:47
Speaker 3: wear false eyelashes because they were coming out in clumps.
11:49
Speaker 3: I had broken out in like this hive rash all
11:52
Speaker 3: over my chin and my neck, and I'd never had
11:55
Speaker 3: anything like that before. I was I like, my stomach
12:00
Speaker 3: and my everything was a shambles.
12:02
Speaker 2: And it really took me that first year to it.
12:06
Speaker 1: Was an acclimate to it.
12:08
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but it's like that's just so part of
12:11
Speaker 2: your operation system. It just has to go into a compartment.
12:15
Speaker 1: I was so like everybody who is will has watched
12:20
Speaker 1: the documentary disgusted by those letters. You know, I don't.
12:26
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like that person. You hear about stalkers.
12:31
Speaker 1: You hear about celebrity stalkers. So and so showed up
12:34
Speaker 1: at so and so's house, right, climbed the gate.
12:37
Speaker 3: But this stalking and we'll probably never know what was
12:40
Speaker 3: exactly in their minds, right because they showed up, they
12:44
Speaker 3: broken and we hear about these break ins where they're
12:46
Speaker 3: actually and these are celebrities that have so every bit
12:51
Speaker 3: of money.
12:52
Speaker 2: At their disposal, right and they still got it.
12:54
Speaker 3: Not me, by the way, but they and they still
12:56
Speaker 3: get in they have Because I've had so many people.
12:58
Speaker 2: Say, well didn't you have like incredible security, didn't you have? Sure?
13:02
Speaker 3: I had great, but I didn't even have that level
13:04
Speaker 3: of security. And people are able to break into Brad
13:07
Speaker 3: Pitt's house and be sleeping in his bed when he
13:09
Speaker 3: comes home. Sandra Bullock was like two years ago, wasn't
13:12
Speaker 3: she hiding in her antry when somebody was in her kitchen?
13:15
Speaker 2: Like Jennifer and like you know, Gwyneth Paltrow.
13:20
Speaker 3: And the interesting thing is they were, which is even scarier.
13:23
Speaker 3: They were there in person, like you know, terrorizing them
13:28
Speaker 3: in person.
13:28
Speaker 2: But what we don't know is what their.
13:31
Speaker 3: Stalkers were actually thinking, what their stalkers and we will
13:35
Speaker 3: never know what their stockers wanted to do in detail.
13:38
Speaker 3: I knew what my stalker wanted to do in detail,
13:40
Speaker 3: so I knew if he showed up it was going
13:43
Speaker 3: to be And even when you see him at the
13:45
Speaker 3: end of the documentary, people are like, oh my god,
13:49
Speaker 3: But when you see him you can see that obviously
13:51
Speaker 3: he wouldn't have been able to run up on you.
13:55
Speaker 2: Who says that.
13:55
Speaker 1: Many people have said, well, at least have the stock Sorry,
13:58
Speaker 1: that is the dumbest thing. I can't believe that. And
14:00
Speaker 1: what we say, like, oh, you have to have as a.
14:02
Speaker 2: Gun, stupid.
14:04
Speaker 3: You don't have to be like lithe and strong and
14:07
Speaker 3: fit to be able to shoot somebody.
14:09
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no nobody, no heavy set old man has
14:12
Speaker 1: ever hurt anyone. Right, That is the dumbest thing I've
14:15
Speaker 1: ever heard, as a matter of fact. As a matter
14:17
Speaker 1: of fact, when I saw what he looked like, I
14:19
Speaker 1: found him even scarier and creepier.
14:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:23
Speaker 3: And the fact that he worked in a in a
14:25
Speaker 3: as a nurse, right in a memory care facility where
14:29
Speaker 3: the people would not know or remember to or even
14:34
Speaker 3: be able to report any kind of sexual abuse.
14:37
Speaker 1: Or sexual one of my one of my many questions,
14:39
Speaker 1: right that I wanted to ask, have you been contacted
14:41
Speaker 1: by any of those people when they found out?
14:44
Speaker 2: I don't think they found out until now.
14:47
Speaker 3: Until now, and I'm very and no one's ever told
14:49
Speaker 3: me what has happened.
14:51
Speaker 2: And if you can imagine, you.
14:53
Speaker 3: Know, these nurses in the nursing homes that are taking
14:56
Speaker 3: care of our family members, we love them, We consider
15:01
Speaker 3: them heroes and angels for taking care of our loved
15:04
Speaker 3: ones these ways. So there had to have been families
15:07
Speaker 3: that actually told like loved him.
15:10
Speaker 1: And trust that's hard to even yeah, fathom. Yeah, you
15:29
Speaker 1: first get you get the first letter. Obviously it was
15:33
Speaker 1: I'm sure terrifying, upsetting, all of that. I can't imagine
15:37
Speaker 1: that you thought this is going to go on now
15:38
Speaker 1: for twelve years. You get the first letter, you share it. Obviously,
15:42
Speaker 1: your very sweet brother knew about it, right, the people
15:45
Speaker 1: around you, and I'm sure you didn't expect this to
15:49
Speaker 1: you know, go on and on and on, but it did.
15:52
Speaker 1: Do you ever just not say did I don't want
15:54
Speaker 1: to see them, read them, don't tell me when they come? Yeah,
15:58
Speaker 1: you did do that.
15:59
Speaker 2: I knew when they came, but I stopped.
16:02
Speaker 1: Why did you tell that you wanted to know when
16:03
Speaker 1: they came?
16:05
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, yeah, I wanted to know when they came.
16:06
Speaker 2: I wanted to know the frequency.
16:09
Speaker 3: And sometimes they would be coming fast and furious for
16:12
Speaker 3: you know, like they'd be three in a week for
16:16
Speaker 3: a month, and then he would disappear for a couple
16:18
Speaker 3: of months and I wouldn't hear from him, and then
16:20
Speaker 3: would get kind of excited, like maybe he just I
16:23
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe he died, died, yeah, maybe.
16:26
Speaker 2: He yeah, maybe he just moved on.
16:29
Speaker 3: Maybe he got on some nice meds and his normal
16:32
Speaker 3: I don't.
16:32
Speaker 2: Know, or stalking someone else or stalking someone else.
16:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so he would disappear and come to find
16:38
Speaker 3: out he was stalking some other people.
16:40
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, they wouldn't come forward during the trial.
16:43
Speaker 3: And I don't and I think one, at least one
16:46
Speaker 3: of them was beyond the statute of limitations. So I
16:48
Speaker 3: think he had stopped with that person, and then another
16:52
Speaker 3: girl would not come forward. I think she was afraid
16:56
Speaker 3: of reinciting you know, maybe given up on her and
17:01
Speaker 3: she didn't want to reincite it.
17:02
Speaker 1: I don't know, I get it, I get it.
17:04
Speaker 2: He would have gotten a longer time, a longer sentence.
17:09
Speaker 1: That must kill you.
17:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, the the the most he could have gotten was
17:13
Speaker 3: seven years.
17:14
Speaker 1: Which I was, he's already that's already.
17:18
Speaker 2: Right, seven years. But the thing is there was two
17:21
Speaker 2: of us. Were we not worth two sentences?
17:24
Speaker 1: God?
17:25
Speaker 2: Why not seven and seven? Nope? We got three?
17:30
Speaker 1: And how is the hell he's out? He's out now?
17:32
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's been out. He's out. And he was
17:34
Speaker 2: supposed to have a how long was he in for
17:37
Speaker 2: three and a half years?
17:39
Speaker 3: And then he was supposed to have a three year
17:40
Speaker 3: probation But he's on to me off probation in like
17:42
Speaker 3: eight months, he's almost through that now.
17:44
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to ask you this, but
17:46
Speaker 1: I feel like it's I have to. It's sort of
17:49
Speaker 1: my job. But like, how are you dealing with the
17:50
Speaker 1: fact that he is now entering society or he actually
17:55
Speaker 1: he's already here. How are you dealing with that?
17:58
Speaker 3: Well, evidently if he were to reach out or even
18:02
Speaker 3: follow us on social media or anything like that, right now,
18:05
Speaker 3: he would go back to jail. But in eight months
18:09
Speaker 3: it would just be considered a whole brand new case,
18:12
Speaker 3: like he'd have to be caught again if he did
18:14
Speaker 3: something he'd have to do.
18:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So in.
18:16
Speaker 3: Eight months, he's like I've heard from other women who've
18:21
Speaker 3: been through like major stocking cases in their stocker has
18:24
Speaker 3: been already sentenced, they came out and continued stocking them.
18:28
Speaker 1: So what's the How are you give a plan here?
18:32
Speaker 1: I mean, are you just like, are you done being
18:33
Speaker 1: afraid of this piece of shit? Are you going to?
18:35
Speaker 2: Yeah?
18:36
Speaker 3: And now I have I have like friends in very
18:39
Speaker 3: high FBI places, So I love that. I think I'm
18:43
Speaker 3: not sure it would be a matter of who gets
18:45
Speaker 3: to who first.
18:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing is now we know and now
18:48
Speaker 2: I know where he lives.
18:50
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, sorry, not sorry?
18:52
Speaker 2: Yeah good?
18:54
Speaker 1: What about Kayas? How's she handling it?
18:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're I mean, it's it's just it's all of
19:00
Speaker 3: those own unknowns that are scary. You know, it's all
19:05
Speaker 3: of the you know, we're we did the documentary obviously,
19:08
Speaker 3: that's poking the bear. We we have a lifetime project
19:13
Speaker 3: that they're going to be doing the future, you know,
19:15
Speaker 3: the movie version of it.
19:16
Speaker 1: I did not know that.
19:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're working on that now. It's being written.
19:20
Speaker 3: We're hoping to shoot it by the end of this year.
19:22
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you're playing yourself.
19:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to play myself, which is interesting, Oh
19:27
Speaker 3: my god.
19:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little scary now, but all.
19:29
Speaker 3: Of it's like poking the bear, right, I just but
19:32
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna the thing is just being alive is
19:36
Speaker 3: poking the bear.
19:37
Speaker 1: So I'm I can't help but whatever. You know that.
19:39
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you.
19:41
Speaker 2: Oh thank you.
19:42
Speaker 3: It's been really a gift to be able to turn
19:46
Speaker 3: it around and all of those years that we couldn't speak,
19:51
Speaker 3: all of there's years that we didn't have a voice,
19:55
Speaker 3: and being able to do it now has been incredibly
19:57
Speaker 3: cathartic for both of us.
20:00
Speaker 1: Kaya Now, maybe you don't even want to say. I
20:02
Speaker 1: was going to ask you about her situation. Did she
20:04
Speaker 1: I'm sure she lives close to you, yeah, wherever you are,
20:08
Speaker 1: and I don't know if she's.
20:10
Speaker 3: We're in Los Angeles and she's got a really great boyfriend. Yes,
20:14
Speaker 3: and yeah, she loves a job and she's traveling a lot,
20:16
Speaker 3: which is great. And I mean the sad thing was
20:20
Speaker 3: right after the stalker was caught, about four months later,
20:24
Speaker 3: her dad died suddenly and unexpectedly.
20:27
Speaker 1: So that was I was going to ask you about it.
20:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had hit with a lot in that one year.
20:33
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, the way you spoke about her
20:36
Speaker 1: dad was really beautiful.
20:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were really great friends.
20:39
Speaker 1: Still, the way you spoke about John was just beautiful
20:42
Speaker 1: and so nice that I guess you were still able
20:44
Speaker 1: to be.
20:44
Speaker 2: And we were still great friends.
20:45
Speaker 1: We were really I wanted to ask you how did
20:47
Speaker 1: he handle all this? Did he ever say let her
20:49
Speaker 1: come live with me? You know, what were those discussions?
20:53
Speaker 3: He lived two hour a two hour drive from us,
20:55
Speaker 3: so he lived in out in Palm Desert.
20:57
Speaker 1: I remember from Yeah, the school.
20:59
Speaker 3: Was living with me, But she went to his house
21:02
Speaker 3: pretty much every weekend or every other weekend.
21:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, all the way through high school.
21:06
Speaker 3: So uh, in high school it became kind of every
21:09
Speaker 3: other weekend or every two weekends because you know, then
21:11
Speaker 3: they want to hang out with their friends, they want.
21:12
Speaker 2: To do but of course, but then, and he had
21:16
Speaker 2: his house broken into at one.
21:17
Speaker 1: Point by stalker.
21:19
Speaker 3: No, but every time something happens, you think it's the stalker. Right,
21:22
Speaker 3: So he had he had his house burglarized.
21:25
Speaker 1: Actually, he must have been so scared for you guys. Yeah,
21:29
Speaker 1: I mean he must have been. Yet that's a whole
21:31
Speaker 1: other story, right, Like he.
21:33
Speaker 2: Is and there's nothing he can do that he can't
21:36
Speaker 2: detail his daughter.
21:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, so you're dealing with all this. I
21:40
Speaker 1: want to know. And I know you said that you
21:42
Speaker 1: do what you have to do, especially as a mother,
21:44
Speaker 1: but there's has to be something here. I don't know
21:47
Speaker 1: about your parents. I don't know if you know we
21:50
Speaker 1: saw your very lovely brother. How were you always strong?
21:54
Speaker 1: And I'm again, I don't want to I don't want
21:56
Speaker 1: you to feel like I'm stroking you or anything. I
21:58
Speaker 1: know you did what you had to do, right, but
22:00
Speaker 1: I don't think I think that a certain amount of
22:02
Speaker 1: this you have to have a certain constitution. And I'm
22:04
Speaker 1: telling you, I really do believe that I personally could
22:08
Speaker 1: not have handled it like you did at all. So
22:10
Speaker 1: I just I guess I'm just curious about your background.
22:14
Speaker 1: Is your mother the kind of woman that knows so
22:17
Speaker 1: well how to deal with adversity? Where did you get that?
22:19
Speaker 2: Yeah?
22:20
Speaker 3: I think they both My mom and my dad both
22:22
Speaker 3: came from really you know, my mom didn't come from
22:27
Speaker 3: as tough a childhood, but I think her adulthood was
22:31
Speaker 3: really troubled, and my dad really really persevered through a
22:39
Speaker 3: terrible childhood, like terrible. So I think you know, all
22:43
Speaker 3: of us, me and my siblings, we all had many siblings.
22:47
Speaker 2: Well now there's five of us.
22:49
Speaker 3: We started out with four of us and then oddly
22:53
Speaker 3: enough through twenty three and me we got.
22:54
Speaker 2: A fifth one about three years ago, which is gratulations,
22:58
Speaker 2: thank you, But it's so weird.
23:00
Speaker 1: How DNA has I know, has been changing your life, so.
23:04
Speaker 3: Prominent in my life and be chusing my life in
23:07
Speaker 3: all these miraculous, incredible ways.
23:09
Speaker 1: Yes, it was amazing to me when Steve and Steve
23:12
Speaker 1: right Steve Squared and they came on and I don't know,
23:18
Speaker 1: it was exhilarating, but it was also a little frustrating.
23:22
Speaker 1: You'd been suffering for so long. And I know the
23:24
Speaker 1: DNA well, you know, you're playing a detective in.
23:29
Speaker 2: We're a DNA Specialist, which is for a DNA specialist.
23:32
Speaker 1: But I guess that this was out there. It wasn't
23:35
Speaker 1: out there for long. And but the ability to find
23:38
Speaker 1: this bastard, you know, right.
23:40
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the iron the crazy irony is here.
23:43
Speaker 2: I was. I was playing a detective at.
23:45
Speaker 3: A a DNA specialist. We're pretending to have the technology
23:50
Speaker 3: that we didn't really have.
23:51
Speaker 2: Of course I didn't realize we didn't have it.
23:53
Speaker 3: I thought we had that technology because it seemed like
23:55
Speaker 3: everything we were doing on CSI was current. But when
23:59
Speaker 3: it came down to it, there really wasn't. COTIS is
24:03
Speaker 3: the only entity for law enforcement that holds all of
24:08
Speaker 3: the DNA samples that we would you know, trace against. Right,
24:12
Speaker 3: So the only people that are in CODIS are people
24:16
Speaker 3: who've already been processed for murder and right, right, So
24:20
Speaker 3: like eighty six percent of those people that are in CODIS,
24:23
Speaker 3: the DNA that's in COTIS, eighty six percent of them
24:25
Speaker 3: are already in jail. The rest are John Doe, rape
24:29
Speaker 3: kits and so. And the reason that there's still John
24:33
Speaker 3: Doe is because they don't have any priors.
24:34
Speaker 2: They've never been picked up for anything before, right, So they're.
24:37
Speaker 3: Not going to get a match on those people until
24:40
Speaker 3: they get picked up for a second rape or for
24:42
Speaker 3: you know, or they actually get.
24:43
Speaker 1: Caught or and then comes twenty three and meter.
24:46
Speaker 2: But it was.
24:47
Speaker 3: Twelve years before there was twenty before there was that
24:50
Speaker 3: ancestry dot com or Jed Maatch.
24:51
Speaker 2: It was going to be another twelve years. And even
24:54
Speaker 2: so these two.
24:55
Speaker 3: FBI, the two Steves, they here's the other thing that
24:59
Speaker 3: I didn't know. So murder is not FBI jurisdiction.
25:03
Speaker 1: What does that mean?
25:04
Speaker 2: So local law.
25:06
Speaker 3: Enforcement like La County sheriffs, La County LAPD or wherever
25:11
Speaker 3: you happen to live, your town they live in, they
25:14
Speaker 3: investigate murders in their town.
25:16
Speaker 2: That is their jurisdiction.
25:18
Speaker 3: So murder it's you know, FBI looks at trafficking and
25:23
Speaker 3: RICO cases and if murder is part of one of
25:27
Speaker 3: those cases, it's still local law enforcement that is doing
25:30
Speaker 3: the actual investigation of that case. FBI can also come
25:35
Speaker 3: help if it's part of their case. But murder by
25:39
Speaker 3: itself is not part of an FBI case, so they
25:41
Speaker 3: don't cover murder.
25:43
Speaker 2: So isn't that interesting.
25:44
Speaker 3: But they were fascinated with this Golden State killer case,
25:47
Speaker 3: which was the most famous, you know, serial killer case
25:52
Speaker 3: in California history. It's been forty three years cold case,
25:57
Speaker 3: more than six thousand suspects. They had tons of DNA,
26:01
Speaker 3: but this person had never been picked up for anything before,
26:04
Speaker 3: so he was not in codis.
26:06
Speaker 2: There was never a codis hit on him.
26:08
Speaker 3: And these two FBI agents were just fascinated with the
26:11
Speaker 3: case and why it had never been solved. They'd been
26:13
Speaker 3: following it, and so they picked up the phone and
26:15
Speaker 3: called Paul Holes, which was the detective on the case.
26:17
Speaker 3: He'd been the detective on the case for twenty five
26:19
Speaker 3: years and never had any breaks, and he was getting
26:24
Speaker 3: ready to retire, and they called him and they said, hey,
26:27
Speaker 3: you know, like out of curiosity, can we help you
26:31
Speaker 3: with this case? On the side, we're just fascinated with it.
26:34
Speaker 3: There might be something at FBI that we can use
26:37
Speaker 3: or help they and he was like, yeah, sure, come
26:39
Speaker 3: on in. So they it was not a formal investigation
26:44
Speaker 3: by the FBI. I'd all, this is two guys who
26:47
Speaker 3: on their weekends were helping this detective. And they were
26:53
Speaker 3: the first ones to say, well, you know there's nothing
26:56
Speaker 3: in codis, but what if we took all this DNA
27:00
Speaker 3: and we uploaded it into twenty three and mes ancestry
27:03
Speaker 3: jed match and see if.
27:04
Speaker 2: We get a hit.
27:06
Speaker 3: Already knowing that, of course, there's not a serial killer
27:09
Speaker 3: on the planet that's going to upload his own DNA
27:11
Speaker 3: and there, of course, but they're like, what if we
27:13
Speaker 3: get a cousin, What if we get an aunt, what
27:14
Speaker 3: if we get an uncle? What if we get something
27:17
Speaker 3: like some little blood trail? And that's exactly what they did.
27:20
Speaker 3: So they were the first ones to ever do that,
27:23
Speaker 3: and they got a hit on a fifth cousin. And
27:25
Speaker 3: then from there, you know, the genealogy tree like lights
27:29
Speaker 3: up right, And then if you get a hit on
27:32
Speaker 3: a fifth cousin, you know that this whole side of
27:34
Speaker 3: the tree is void.
27:36
Speaker 2: And now you start to work down the branches and
27:39
Speaker 2: the leaves of this side of the genealogy.
27:43
Speaker 3: Tree right until you get a hit, until you get
27:45
Speaker 3: your match.
27:46
Speaker 1: What's the guy that killed those beautiful four?
27:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, the students.
27:51
Speaker 1: Yea, yeah, Brian Colberger, yeah and right, and then they
27:54
Speaker 1: found him. They found relatives. I want to say it
27:57
Speaker 1: was his parents, but I'm not. I don't remember exactly.
28:00
Speaker 1: They get to their DNA, yeah, and that's how and
28:03
Speaker 1: they sort of put that together. That was one of
28:05
Speaker 1: the key pieces of evidence in that case. And it's
28:08
Speaker 1: amazing because I have talked to doing this for a while.
28:12
Speaker 1: We have talked to law enforcement producers. You would think
28:17
Speaker 1: that now it would be so much easier to solve crimes,
28:20
Speaker 1: right and to find perpetrators, and they say it's not.
28:25
Speaker 1: And there are a bunch of reasons for that that
28:27
Speaker 1: I don't really understand.
28:28
Speaker 2: It's interesting. The guys just told me.
28:30
Speaker 3: I have lunch with them usually like once a month.
28:33
Speaker 3: I love them and they're amazing, and I picked their
28:37
Speaker 3: brains on all the cases that they're working on currently
28:39
Speaker 3: because I'm fascinated with it. And they were telling me
28:42
Speaker 3: about a case that they were working on because even
28:45
Speaker 3: once once they get down to that last leaf on
28:48
Speaker 3: the branch where they know who it is because he
28:54
Speaker 3: fits all the descriptions. He's related to the mom and
28:58
Speaker 3: dad obviously, so it's got to be one of their children.
29:01
Speaker 3: But of course, like the sister didn't do it because
29:04
Speaker 3: she doesn't even live in that town where the murder happened.
29:06
Speaker 3: You know, they there's all these other actenuating circumstances that
29:09
Speaker 3: like lead you to the actual person. So once they
29:13
Speaker 3: find the actual person, though, they still have to go
29:15
Speaker 3: to get the DNA match.
29:16
Speaker 2: So they'll follow them around.
29:19
Speaker 1: Right, they got to the garbage can, they got his soda,
29:21
Speaker 1: right yeah, in.
29:22
Speaker 3: My case, and in the Golden State killer case, they
29:25
Speaker 3: got his DNA off of his his car door handle.
29:30
Speaker 3: In another case, they actually had some hot girl. They
29:35
Speaker 3: they gave her money to walk up to this guy
29:37
Speaker 3: in they'd followed him into them all and they said,
29:39
Speaker 3: and she was like, hey, I totally love your baseball cap.
29:43
Speaker 3: Can I like give you fifty bucks for your baseball cap?
29:46
Speaker 3: I totally love it? And you know it's like my friends,
29:49
Speaker 3: you know. Anyway, he gave her the baseball cap, and
29:52
Speaker 3: of course they got the DNA out of the baseball cap.
29:54
Speaker 3: Yes they do, or they've you know, they follow him everywhere.
29:58
Speaker 3: They follow him into a bar, they pay the bartender
30:00
Speaker 3: for his glass.
30:02
Speaker 1: I wonder why it's not then, I wonder why these
30:05
Speaker 1: crimes are and I don't know. I heard that statistic
30:08
Speaker 1: so I could, but I mean no, but you're you're.
30:10
Speaker 3: Right, because they are also telling me that that there
30:13
Speaker 3: was a time that there was UH they were trying
30:16
Speaker 3: to get they were trying to exonerate somebody because the
30:19
Speaker 3: DNA evidence did.
30:20
Speaker 2: Not match him, and now they had.
30:24
Speaker 3: And he was being retried, retried or they brought the
30:27
Speaker 3: case back up for for appeal. I think that was
30:29
Speaker 3: what it was. And they needed the detective to go
30:34
Speaker 3: to the prison because the there was somebody in prison
30:40
Speaker 3: that they think had done it, but they needed his DNA.
30:43
Speaker 3: So all he needed to do was go to the prison,
30:47
Speaker 3: get the DNA from this person who was already incarcerated,
30:50
Speaker 3: and then this other person would have been completely free
30:52
Speaker 3: and exonerated. The local law enforcement department didn't want to
30:57
Speaker 3: pay the overtime because it was going to be he
30:58
Speaker 3: was going to pay. It was gonna he is going
31:00
Speaker 3: to have to drive an hour to the prison and
31:02
Speaker 3: an hour back and get the DNA sample, and they
31:04
Speaker 3: wouldn't let him do it.
31:05
Speaker 2: They wouldn't pay for it.
31:08
Speaker 3: So that person is still sitting in jail for something
31:11
Speaker 3: he did not do, and the other guy is already
31:14
Speaker 3: in jail for murdering somebody else, so he's sitting in jail,
31:18
Speaker 3: but he at least this guy would have been free.
31:21
Speaker 3: So I think a lot of times there's also I
31:23
Speaker 3: was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, are you
31:26
Speaker 3: saying that criminals can go free too in this case
31:29
Speaker 3: because they don't want to send somebody out because they
31:32
Speaker 3: don't want to pay the time and a half or
31:33
Speaker 3: they don't want to pay the overtime?
31:34
Speaker 2: And he goes yeah.
31:49
Speaker 1: I keep thinking because this documentary is different from so
31:54
Speaker 1: many of the ones that I've now watched and so
31:56
Speaker 1: many of the people I've spoken to, And what is
32:00
Speaker 1: what the greatest part about doing what I do is
32:02
Speaker 1: that a lot of times you see because of documentaries
32:05
Speaker 1: like this, things changing, right and laws changing, And because
32:11
Speaker 1: I didn't know before I watched your story that some
32:16
Speaker 1: animal was only going to get three years who had
32:19
Speaker 1: taken your life from you and from your daughter for
32:23
Speaker 1: twelve and like what happens now? And how do you advocate?
32:27
Speaker 1: You know, how do use how do you use this?
32:32
Speaker 2: And really more than twelve?
32:33
Speaker 3: Because you're absolutely right, it's like he got three years
32:37
Speaker 3: and we got life.
32:39
Speaker 2: Because there's never been a good time. As long as
32:41
Speaker 2: he's alive, we will never not be in some state of.
32:50
Speaker 3: It's not active fear, but it's in some heightened state
32:55
Speaker 3: of fearfulness.
32:56
Speaker 1: How do we advocate for you? Even, like I know,
32:59
Speaker 1: that's just my question, Like what now? So how does?
33:02
Speaker 1: I don't know? How does? And our listeners right, like,
33:05
Speaker 1: are there are there people standing up for this and
33:07
Speaker 1: saying this is not right? That you know this person
33:09
Speaker 1: has ruined Eva's life? No, excuse me, No he has not.
33:14
Speaker 1: You have a whole life to live, but has you know,
33:17
Speaker 1: made it so brutal? And what now? Like how do
33:19
Speaker 1: you change those laws? I don't know. I'm just asking, but.
33:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do think it's it's it's doing this,
33:25
Speaker 3: it's it's mean awareness.
33:27
Speaker 2: What's what you're.
33:27
Speaker 3: Doing is phenomenal because you are bringing awareness and what
33:32
Speaker 3: you do, what you are doing is God's work.
33:34
Speaker 2: What you are doing is I don't I listen.
33:37
Speaker 3: You are giving a platform to the reasons that laws
33:41
Speaker 3: need to change, giving a platform.
33:43
Speaker 1: No, it's not me, it's it's it is it's you,
33:46
Speaker 1: it's these directors, it's all of it. Like that's the
33:48
Speaker 1: good news, because you know, true crime is people are
33:51
Speaker 1: crazed about it, like they are obsessed with it.
33:55
Speaker 2: They people fall asleep to it, which.
33:58
Speaker 1: Is a fall asleep to it. I think that so.
34:01
Speaker 1: And now for me, because I watch so much of it,
34:05
Speaker 1: I do try to find in it like, Okay, it's
34:08
Speaker 1: not just that it's there, It's not just stories. These
34:10
Speaker 1: are real people. Like this ship happened because people you know,
34:15
Speaker 1: through victims, and they lived through this horror as opposed
34:18
Speaker 1: to just watching it and taking it in as entertainment.
34:22
Speaker 1: But I do think that with true crime and with
34:24
Speaker 1: the you know, obsession that our country has with it,
34:27
Speaker 1: I do think that it is it's going to change
34:30
Speaker 1: laws and and things. Can you know, come out of
34:34
Speaker 1: the trauma that so many people have been through. I
34:38
Speaker 1: like to tell myself that, Yeah, I like to have
34:41
Speaker 1: you spoken to anybody about what the likelihood is now
34:47
Speaker 1: that now that he went to jail, and now that
34:50
Speaker 1: he knows that we know who he is, what does
34:54
Speaker 1: that do in terms of the likelihood that he would
34:57
Speaker 1: you know, try to not just come after you, but
35:00
Speaker 1: you know, pursue this crazy uh yearning he has to
35:05
Speaker 1: stalk and to and to hurt people.
35:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because he when they arrested him. He
35:16
Speaker 3: went through this. He tried to pull for like the
35:19
Speaker 3: first six or seven months. He tried to pull the
35:21
Speaker 3: insanity plea and blah blah blah.
35:22
Speaker 2: That didn't work.
35:23
Speaker 3: And but he was evaluated by a whole slew of
35:27
Speaker 3: psychologists and psychiatrists. And when we all went to court
35:32
Speaker 3: and he gave us his blah blah blah, his excuse,
35:37
Speaker 3: and he was talking about his childhood and you know,
35:42
Speaker 3: how he'd been bullied, and I'm like, fucking get in line.
35:49
Speaker 2: I don't want to kill people because I was bullied,
35:51
Speaker 2: like really, like it's knock it off, right, and you
35:55
Speaker 2: know that. I don't know. So anyway, he was talking about,
35:59
Speaker 2: you know, he wished you'd been caught sooner, same.
36:05
Speaker 3: Because then he would have gotten help sooner and he
36:08
Speaker 3: would have gotten on medications.
36:09
Speaker 1: I don't know, honestly, Like you're saying it, I'm glad
36:12
Speaker 1: you guys didn't show it in the documentary. I want
36:14
Speaker 1: to puke a little bit as you're talking about it. Yeah,
36:17
Speaker 1: I whatever, I mean, yeah, but what do they say?
36:19
Speaker 1: Do they say that now that he's well.
36:21
Speaker 3: He was saying, you know, and now you know, thank god,
36:24
Speaker 3: I've been able to get help because now I'm on medication,
36:27
Speaker 3: the medication that I need that's right for me. And
36:30
Speaker 3: now I don't have these episodes anymore. And you know,
36:34
Speaker 3: now I'm now I'm all better.
36:35
Speaker 2: So we also know that the second you go off
36:38
Speaker 2: your meds, course you're not going to be better, of course,
36:41
Speaker 2: And who's keeping you on your meds when you are
36:44
Speaker 2: off probation?
36:46
Speaker 1: So is he? Did they predict? Can they predict? I'm
36:50
Speaker 1: sure there are other cases like this unfortunately, but can
36:53
Speaker 1: they predict? You know what he's been through going to jail,
36:56
Speaker 1: knowing that he's not anonymous anymore? Is all of that
37:00
Speaker 1: helpful in terms of him being scared of getting caught again?
37:04
Speaker 2: I don't know if I don't know when you're that
37:05
Speaker 2: insane that there's any fear.
37:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when you're off your when you are,
37:11
Speaker 3: you know, if he's off his meds, if these meds
37:13
Speaker 3: are actually you know, suppressing all of these insane, depraved,
37:20
Speaker 3: heinous thoughts, and if you are off of them, there's
37:23
Speaker 3: nothing to make you fearful anymore, you know what I mean,
37:27
Speaker 3: you're not in your right mind and so and the
37:32
Speaker 3: other thing is no one's telling me obviously, nobody's going
37:35
Speaker 3: to tell me if he has to see a therapist still,
37:38
Speaker 3: or what that therapist is going to, that therapist is
37:41
Speaker 3: not going to.
37:41
Speaker 1: I can tell you that it's maddening.
37:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty maddening.
37:45
Speaker 3: Yeah.
37:46
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's better in a sense.
37:48
Speaker 3: It's funny that the therapist could come and talk about,
37:51
Speaker 3: you know, they could talk about all the ways he's
37:53
Speaker 3: been helped when he was there on the stand, but
37:57
Speaker 3: they can't tell you.
37:58
Speaker 2: Now.
37:59
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's all it all feels all it
38:01
Speaker 1: just feels all wrong.
38:02
Speaker 2: It all feels wrong. It's all wrong.
38:04
Speaker 3: There really is nothing in place to actually prevent anything
38:08
Speaker 3: from happening again. And there's nothing, there's no safeguards in
38:12
Speaker 3: place for a victim.
38:14
Speaker 1: I see stupid questions now, just because they're coming to
38:16
Speaker 1: my mind. Do you go away to What kind of
38:18
Speaker 1: prison was he in? Was it maximum security? Was it federal?
38:22
Speaker 2: Was it No, it was federal. It was federal.
38:25
Speaker 3: And then when they released him, you can tell from
38:27
Speaker 3: the doc they released him like ten miles from my house,
38:32
Speaker 3: and he'd never been to California. I didn't know in
38:35
Speaker 3: that whole time he hadn't been to California. I didn't
38:37
Speaker 3: know in those twelve years, because he would write that
38:39
Speaker 3: he could see me, that he knew where we were,
38:41
Speaker 3: that he was following all of us. We assumed he
38:43
Speaker 3: was here, or at least flying back and forth. We
38:45
Speaker 3: knew that the letters were coming from Ohio, but we
38:48
Speaker 3: assumed maybe he was coming back and forth.
38:50
Speaker 2: We didn't know. We had no we had no idea.
38:53
Speaker 3: But in the end they released He'd never been to
38:56
Speaker 3: Los Angeles, and they released him in Last Angelus. At
39:01
Speaker 3: first they put him in a halfway house about three
39:03
Speaker 3: miles from my brother's house, and then they put him
39:07
Speaker 3: in his little permanent apartment about ten miles. For me,
39:10
Speaker 3: they wouldn't tell me where he lived, though he could
39:12
Speaker 3: probably find out where I lived, but I wasn't allowed
39:14
Speaker 3: to know where he lived.
39:15
Speaker 2: And then I had to lobby.
39:19
Speaker 3: His probation officers and the US attorneys and the court
39:24
Speaker 3: to get him sent back home. And you know what
39:26
Speaker 3: they told me were the criteria for his release, Well,
39:29
Speaker 3: you know, we have to release him in a place
39:32
Speaker 3: where he can find a job, where he has family
39:35
Speaker 3: and friends and some other bullshit. And I said, he
39:40
Speaker 3: doesn't have family and friends here in California and he
39:43
Speaker 3: has just as good a chance as getting a job
39:45
Speaker 3: in Idaho or Ohio. Nay, what are you talking about?
39:49
Speaker 3: And they're like, well, his mom doesn't want to take
39:51
Speaker 3: him back in. I'm like, that's not my problem. And
39:54
Speaker 3: his mom's not taking him in here.
39:56
Speaker 2: I'm not taking him in who's taking him in here?
39:58
Speaker 1: And I can't believe they couldn't. There was nothing that
40:01
Speaker 1: they to drop.
40:02
Speaker 2: I mean, can It took four months to get him
40:05
Speaker 2: sent back so fucked up? Yeah, so funny because mom
40:09
Speaker 2: and his sister don't want him. I'm like, oh, there's
40:11
Speaker 2: a wow.
40:12
Speaker 1: Really, right, So that's my problem?
40:13
Speaker 2: Right?
40:14
Speaker 1: And I can't even I can't. I can't believe it's
40:18
Speaker 1: it is. Listen, I don't know. I think you're probably
40:23
Speaker 1: not alone in having this. Obviously, there are people that
40:27
Speaker 1: have been stalked, and you're not alone in having been stocked,
40:30
Speaker 1: but also the frustration of a somebody like this who
40:34
Speaker 1: has ruined your life but hasn't physically touched you.
40:37
Speaker 2: Right.
40:38
Speaker 3: Although the statistics shows that in the United States, of
40:44
Speaker 3: all of the women who have been stocked, eighty percent
40:49
Speaker 3: of eighty percent of the female murders in the United
40:52
Speaker 3: States eighty percent of them or more.
40:54
Speaker 2: It was like eighty plus percent were stoked first.
40:57
Speaker 1: That is so scared.
40:58
Speaker 2: All the murders in the United States, more than eighty
41:02
Speaker 2: percent were stocked first.
41:03
Speaker 1: Say it again, Hold on, hold on, I'm sorry. So
41:06
Speaker 1: of all the women you're saying, all the murdered in
41:09
Speaker 1: the United States, women murdered in the icies, eighty percent
41:11
Speaker 1: of those of women murdered were stocked first.
41:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and that's yearly.
41:18
Speaker 3: So it's usually like eighty plus percent of the women
41:21
Speaker 3: who are killed in the United States annually are were
41:25
Speaker 3: stocked first. So we know for a fact that stocking
41:29
Speaker 3: escalates to either bodily.
41:32
Speaker 2: Harm, rape, or murder. We know it for a fact.
41:36
Speaker 3: So it's not just so that's why it's not just
41:40
Speaker 3: oh she has stocked, but she wasn't hurt, he didn't
41:42
Speaker 3: touch her, he didn't get to her.
41:44
Speaker 2: But if they can, they will. It escalates. It gets
41:49
Speaker 2: worse because it's not enough anymore.
41:52
Speaker 1: How stuff do you have to be to write those
41:54
Speaker 1: kinds of letters and to do it for years over
41:57
Speaker 1: and over, and to find the school. I mean, that
42:02
Speaker 1: was so chilling. Yeah, the fact that they on the
42:08
Speaker 1: loud speaker calling her name. It just the whole thing
42:12
Speaker 1: was just awful, absolutely awful.
42:14
Speaker 3: It was crazy and it was and you know, it's like,
42:18
Speaker 3: also unnerving to me is that he got the three
42:23
Speaker 3: and a half years right, which was which was a
42:26
Speaker 3: combined sentence for so basically, you know, a little more
42:30
Speaker 3: than a year and a half for having done that
42:32
Speaker 3: to Kia and a little more than a year and
42:33
Speaker 3: a half for having done it to me, instead of
42:35
Speaker 3: three years for her, three years for me with a
42:38
Speaker 3: maximum of six or a maximum of seven.
42:40
Speaker 2: Right, that didn't happen.
42:42
Speaker 3: But also, is there no punishment for calling a school
42:48
Speaker 3: nineteen times and threatening the lives of administrators, teachers and
42:53
Speaker 3: children that get in the way between him getting to Kaya?
42:58
Speaker 3: Is there just I guess that that's fine?
43:00
Speaker 1: Did your lawyer address it?
43:02
Speaker 2: No, that was not even ever. I mean they knew it.
43:05
Speaker 3: It was part of the case. It was part of
43:08
Speaker 3: you know, all of that was thrown in. But why
43:11
Speaker 3: is that not its own separate You threaten the lives.
43:14
Speaker 1: Because it is you call it school, you go to jail.
43:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, you threatened the school. How many years do you
43:21
Speaker 3: kids just for that? Probably more just for that.
43:23
Speaker 1: Didn't these school administrators would they have had a press charges.
43:28
Speaker 3: I guess, but I mean I guess they would have
43:30
Speaker 3: had to have their own case, but they didn't. You know,
43:34
Speaker 3: they just got thrown in with our case instead of
43:37
Speaker 3: being its own case. But it seems to me that's
43:41
Speaker 3: that's breaking a few rules.
43:43
Speaker 1: I don't think so I would think so threatening an
43:46
Speaker 1: entire schools, right, yeah, yeah, crazy?
43:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't.
43:53
Speaker 1: I'm too bad. If you don't want me to say
43:55
Speaker 1: you're brave and whatever, I'm sorry, no, and I And
43:58
Speaker 1: the thing is that it doesn't matter you could like
44:00
Speaker 1: it or not.
44:00
Speaker 2: I'm amazed you're not. I'm telling you no, And believe me,
44:04
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
44:05
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry for what you've been through.
44:07
Speaker 3: And I don't mean that I'm not grateful for people
44:09
Speaker 3: saying that because I know that you know the fact,
44:13
Speaker 3: it feels great, but in the moment, it doesn't feel
44:15
Speaker 3: like that at all. You don't feel brave.
44:17
Speaker 2: You have no choice. I'm scared.
44:18
Speaker 1: Do you have no choice?
44:20
Speaker 2: You feel anything but brave? Yeah?
44:22
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I look at you, and I see what
44:24
Speaker 1: I'm I think probably most people see, which is this
44:26
Speaker 1: stunning famous actress with the smile and the charisma and
44:35
Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, I'm just glad. I'm so
44:37
Speaker 1: grateful and happy that you put this out there for
44:39
Speaker 1: the world to see, because you don't about what's going on, right.
44:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we almost didn't do it because we were
44:44
Speaker 3: afraid that it might reincite him.
44:47
Speaker 2: We almost didn't do it, and I'm so glad that
44:49
Speaker 2: we did. I'm really I'm happy that we did.
44:52
Speaker 1: Now i'm too. And you're gonna get so much support also,
44:54
Speaker 1: which I would think, you know, is going to feed
44:58
Speaker 1: your soul a little bit. Right, people are going to.
45:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's shocking to find out how many people
45:04
Speaker 3: have been stocked because yeah, and it's really unbelievable number.
45:09
Speaker 2: And it's men and women, and it's.
45:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more than three million people a year just
45:15
Speaker 3: in the United States are being stocked. They're being stocked
45:19
Speaker 3: either on social media, in person, you know, DV, domestic violence.
45:26
Speaker 3: It's it's all the possible way since men and and
45:29
Speaker 3: and some of the talk shows that I've done, even
45:31
Speaker 3: the men have said to me, oh, yeah, I had
45:33
Speaker 3: this crazy stalker who was coming to the studio every
45:37
Speaker 3: day and you know, saying we were married.
45:40
Speaker 2: I like all kinds of it comes in. They come
45:41
Speaker 2: in all crazy shapes and forms.
45:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.
45:44
Speaker 3: And when I was at CSID there was two other stockers.
45:46
Speaker 3: Emily Proctor was being stocked. Chrysto was being stocked. It's
45:50
Speaker 3: like Stocker Central over there.
45:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, unreal. Theres are telling me that I have to
45:56
Speaker 1: wrap it. But I just I'm just I don't know.
45:59
Speaker 1: I just adore you. I think you are the most
46:01
Speaker 1: amazing woman.
46:02
Speaker 2: All of them. We're having a good time here. We're
46:04
Speaker 2: having a good guys.
46:04
Speaker 1: Leave us alone. Yeah, I know the hell out of here.
46:07
Speaker 1: But I love her. I don't know her, but tell
46:10
Speaker 1: her I love her. Yeah, she's amazing.
46:14
Speaker 2: She's a really cool kid.
46:16
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that it didn't scar her personality or
46:22
Speaker 3: her soul or her incredible spirit.
46:25
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful for that.
46:27
Speaker 1: And that's so obvious. I mean, because she's funny and
46:29
Speaker 1: fun she's a badass.
46:32
Speaker 2: She is. Please be well, Okay you to thank you
46:36
Speaker 2: again so much for how thank you, thank you