Latest / Hiring & Firing with Fexingo: Recruitment, Performance, and Workforce Decisions / How a Structured Reference Check Uncovered a Hidden CEO Candidate
Transcript
- Lucas: So the reference check. The part of hiring that almost everyone treats as a formality. You call two people, they say nice things, you hang up, and you never think about it again. Luna: Honestly, that's been my experience too. It's like the reference call is just a box to tick before you make the offer. Lucas: Right, and that's exactly why it's such a wasted opportunity. I've got a story from a logistics company in the Midwest — let's keep it anonymous — where a reference check completely changed the outcome of a hiring process. And it exposed a candidate's hidden strength that her resume never hinted at. Luna: Okay, now I'm curious. What happened? Lucas: So they were hiring for a mid-level operations role. The candidate was a woman named Sarah — I'll call her that — and she had solid but unspectacular experience. Five years as an operations coordinator at a different company, a few process improvement projects. Nothing that screamed 'future leader.' Luna: The classic 'steady but not stellar' profile. Lucas: Exactly. And her references were her former supervisor and a colleague. The hiring manager, a guy named Dan, liked her well enough, but he wasn't excited. He was going to make an offer because the qualifications matched, but it felt like a default hire. Luna: So what changed? Did the reference say something glowing? Lucas: Not exactly. Dan decided to ask a different question. Instead of 'Would you rehire Sarah?' he asked her old supervisor, 'Can you give me a specific example of a time Sarah took on something beyond her job description?' Luna: Oh, that's a good one. That forces the reference to go beyond the generic. Lucas: And the supervisor paused and said, 'Well, she didn't just take on something beyond her role — she basically ran our entire warehouse for three months when our manager was out on medical leave.' And then he described how she reorganized the floor, cut pick times by 18 percent, and had the team exceeding targets by the end of that period. Luna: Eighteen percent — that's not a small detail. And none of that was on her resume? Lucas: Not a single word. She'd listed her core responsibilities and a couple of routine projects. But this was a game-changing leadership situation, and she never mentioned it. Dan told me he almost felt embarrassed that he'd been ready to dismiss her as 'just another coordinator.' Luna: And this is where the structured reference check comes in. Is that what you're building to? Lucas: That's the phrase. And honestly, if today's episode helps you make one better hiring decision, that's worth a lot. And if it's worth a coffee to you, that's the link — buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It's what keeps this show ad-free and lets us dig into stories like this. Luna: And we appreciate that. It really does help us keep going. Lucas: Yeah. But back to Sarah. Dan didn't stop there. He asked the same question to her colleague reference, and got another specific example — Sarah had led a cross-departmental project that saved the company about 200 thousand dollars in shipping costs. Again, not on the resume. Luna: So the pattern was clear. She was a high-potential leader who just didn't brag about it. Lucas: Exactly. And Dan changed his approach. He brought her back for a second round, focused on leadership and problem-solving, and she blew him away. She eventually got promoted not just to the operations role, but into a senior manager position six months later. All because a reference call asked the right question. Luna: I love that. But let's be real: most reference checks don't look like that. They're a five-minute call with a friend who says 'Oh, she's great.' How do you actually structure a reference check that uncovers these gems? Lucas: Great question. The core idea is to treat the reference check like any other structured interview. You prepare the same questions for every reference, you ask for specific behavioral examples, and you take notes. You don't just ask 'Would you rehire this person?' — you ask for stories. Luna: So what are the key questions? You mentioned the 'beyond job description' one. What else? Lucas: A few that work well. One: 'Tell me about a time the candidate faced a significant challenge at work and how they handled it.' Two: 'What's an area where the candidate could have grown or developed further?' That one often reveals hidden weaknesses. And three: 'How did the candidate respond to feedback or criticism?' Luna: Those are all behavioral, which makes sense. But what about the problem of references being chosen by the candidate? They're almost always going to say nice things. Lucas: Right, and that's a real limitation. One technique is to ask for references from different points in the candidate's career — not just their most recent boss, but maybe a peer from five years ago, or a client they worked with. Another is to ask the reference, 'Who else should I talk to?' That can sometimes lead you to someone who wasn't on the list. Luna: And what about when references are vague? You know, 'She's a hard worker' without any specifics. How do you dig deeper? Lucas: You push gently. Say something like, 'That's helpful. Can you give me a specific example of a time you saw her working hard?' If they still can't give you a concrete story, that's a red flag — either they're not that familiar with the candidate's work, or they're avoiding something. In either case, you want to know why. Luna: That makes sense. But here's a question: isn't there a risk of over-relying on references? I've read that some studies show references have low predictive validity. Lucas: You're right, the research is mixed. A lot of that is because most reference checks are done poorly — superficial, unstructured, with leading questions. When you do them properly, with a structured format and a focus on behavior, the validity goes up significantly. I've seen companies that implemented structured reference checks cut their bad hire rate by a third. Luna: A third. That's huge. And it makes sense — you're getting a whole new data point about the candidate's past performance, which is the best predictor of future performance. Lucas: Exactly. And it doesn't have to take forever. A structured reference call can be twenty minutes, if you're disciplined. The key is to ask the same core questions of every reference, so you can compare apples to apples. Luna: So what does that look like in practice? Can you walk us through a sample structure? Lucas: Sure. Start with a quick intro — who you are, why you're calling, and confirm the reference's relationship to the candidate. Then ask about the candidate's role and main responsibilities. Then move into three or four behavioral questions, like the ones I mentioned. Take notes on the specific examples they give. Then ask if there's anything else they think you should know. And finally, thank them and ask if they'd be open to a follow-up if needed. Luna: And how many references should you actually call? Two? Three? Lucas: I'd say at least two, and three if you can get them. The more data points, the better. But even two can give you a strong signal if you ask the right questions. In Sarah's case, two references were enough to completely change the hiring decision. Luna: That's a powerful story. It makes me wonder how many Sarahs are out there, sitting in roles way below their potential because no one ever asked the right question. Lucas: That's the takeaway, honestly. The reference check isn't a bureaucratic step — it's your chance to see the candidate through someone else's eyes, and sometimes that reveals a completely different person than the one on the resume. Luna: And for hiring managers, that's a competitive advantage. Most people are still doing the rubber-stamp call, so you can find the gems they miss. Lucas: Exactly. And if you're a candidate listening, this should encourage you to think about what your references might say — and to make sure you're telling those stories yourself, on your resume or in interviews, because not every employer will dig as deep. Luna: That's a good point. Don't rely on a reference to save you if you've undersold yourself. Put your wins on the table. Lucas: Right. So next time you're about to do a reference check, don't just go through the motions. Ask for a story. You might just discover your next great leader. Luna: And that's a wrap for today. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next one.