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BOMBSHELL JEFFREY EPSTEIN BROTHER: THIS WAS NO SUICIDE!” RELEASE THE FILES! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: Message to Bondie, Pam Bondie, the US Attorney General release
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Speaker 2: the files, the Jeffrey Epstein files in case you need clarification. Bondie,
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Speaker 2: you promised, now deliver. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:27
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us. Joining
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Speaker 2: us tonight is a very special guest, Mark Epstein. This
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Speaker 2: is the biological brother of Jeffrey Epstein, now dead.
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Speaker 1: Mister Epstein, thank you for being with us.
0:45
Speaker 2: You're welcome, Mark, if I may call you that. Sure,
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Speaker 2: you have been disturbed from day one about the claim
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Speaker 2: your brother, Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide. You say that did
1:02
Speaker 2: not happen.
1:03
Speaker 1: Why?
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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, it was sort of like almost
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Speaker 3: day two. What happened. When I first heard that Jeffrey
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Speaker 3: was found dead from the parent suicide. I heard it
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Speaker 3: on CNN. The government didn't notify me as they claimed.
1:17
Speaker 3: I heard it on CNN, and at first I had
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Speaker 3: no reason to doubt that, because you know, I knew
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Speaker 3: he was in jail, he was potentially facing a very
1:24
Speaker 3: long term. I knew he wouldn't want to live like that.
1:27
Speaker 3: He didn't have any children to worry about. Our parents
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Speaker 3: are gone, and he wouldn't have to worry about me,
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Speaker 3: So there was no reason to doubt that. But then
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Speaker 3: the next day, the next morning, I had to I
1:39
Speaker 3: had to identify his body because I'm the next of kin.
1:42
Speaker 3: And they did the autopsy, and so far, you know
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Speaker 3: the same thing. I just assumed it was a suicide.
1:48
Speaker 3: But then the city pathologist who did thisice of the
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Speaker 3: autopsy with Michael Bottom, there's forensic pathologists on my behalf
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Speaker 3: witnessing this. They both came out of the atop the
2:00
Speaker 3: room and they said they couldn't call it a suicide
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Speaker 3: because it looked too much like a homicide. Now that
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Speaker 3: never appears in any government report and no one speaking
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Speaker 3: about that. The two qualified forensic pathologists who did the
2:16
Speaker 3: autopsy could not call it a suicide because it looked
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Speaker 3: too much like a homicide. And then a few days later,
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Speaker 3: Barbara Samson, who was the chief medical examiner, she declares
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Speaker 3: it was a suicide. And let's be clear, Barbara Sampson
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Speaker 3: never saw the body. She wasn't at the autopsy, and
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Speaker 3: after the autopsy was over that day, we blamed the body,
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Speaker 3: so she never saw it. Just like psh Ptel made
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Speaker 3: that statement that you know because he's a prosecutor and
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Speaker 3: everything else. He said, you know a suicide when you
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Speaker 3: see it. I mean he said that in that congressional
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Speaker 3: or I sent it here in young and the oath
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Speaker 3: I would take, and he said, you know his suicide
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Speaker 3: when you see it. The first questions that came to
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Speaker 3: me we were how many suicides is he's seen? Okay?
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Speaker 3: And also he never saw the body, He never saw
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Speaker 3: the scene. I don't think he was at the scene
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Speaker 3: of the crime that day, or I don't know if
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Speaker 3: he was day afterwards, but that wouldn't matter. Everything seems
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Speaker 3: to be covering up the fact that the mythologist who
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Speaker 3: did the autopsy wouldn't call it a suicide. Other people
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Speaker 3: are called with the suicide, ignoring these very qualified professionals.
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Speaker 3: Doctor Biden has done about five hundred autopsies on prison debts,
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Speaker 3: and I'm not sure how many. Doctor Roman did, certainly
3:34
Speaker 3: more than Cashptell.
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Speaker 2: You know, with us, everyone is Mark Epstein. This is
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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein's brother, who doesn't have a dog in the fight,
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Speaker 2: no skin in the game to opine as to whether
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Speaker 2: Epstein committed suicide or not. But what he's saying is very,
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Speaker 2: very disturbing. Day one, Mark Epstein, I was concerned about
4:00
Speaker 2: the markings.
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Speaker 1: And I've prosecuted and investigated.
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Speaker 2: Many many homicides more than I can count, and have
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Speaker 2: investigated suicides as well to determine if they were homicides.
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Speaker 1: And the first thing that jumped out.
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Speaker 2: At me was the marking on your brother's neck, which
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Speaker 2: was a straight across horizontal ligature mark.
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Speaker 1: And when someone hangs themselves.
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Speaker 2: Even from the side of a bed, think about Robin Williams,
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Speaker 2: who committed suicide by use of a ligature from a
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Speaker 2: door knob. Okay, this is not a traditional hanging, for instance,
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Speaker 2: from an elevated point. Even from that type of suicide
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Speaker 2: from a bed, you would see a you or a
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Speaker 2: smiley marking on the neck.
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Speaker 1: This was a.
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Speaker 2: Straight horizontal ligature mark, indicative of someone wrangling him with
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Speaker 2: a ligature from behind. It's a subtle but important distinction
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Speaker 2: which I will discuss momentarily with a forensic expert. Let
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Speaker 2: me understand, Mark Epstein, you just stated that you learned
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Speaker 2: about the suicide allegation from TV.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. I was actually in Norfolk, Virginia, having breakfast at
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Speaker 3: a restaurant and the television was on don't tune to CNN,
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Speaker 3: and I saw my brother's picture up here and they
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Speaker 3: said that he was found dead from an apparent suicide.
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Speaker 3: That's how I learned about this. I mean the Justice
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Speaker 3: Department report. They said they notified me. They did not.
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Speaker 3: There's a lot of errors in the Justice Department report.
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Speaker 1: Why would they have lied about that.
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Speaker 3: They're trying to make it look like a suicide.
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Speaker 2: Why Why do you believe the government. And I'm not
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Speaker 2: one for conspiracies, Mark at all. Why because I don't
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Speaker 2: think people can keep their yap shut long enough to
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Speaker 2: maintain a conspiracy, That's why.
5:59
Speaker 1: But in this.
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Speaker 2: Case, the refusal to release the files that were promised
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Speaker 2: to us months ago, promise after promise after promise, the
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Speaker 2: confusion around suicide, the homicide, the edited video, and again
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Speaker 2: we're hearing from d C, well there's nothing in the files.
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Speaker 1: Well, if there's nothing in the files, release the files.
6:27
Speaker 1: We have got I.
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Speaker 2: Think now four suicides connected to your brother's case. Four
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Speaker 2: four suicides Jeffrey Virginia Giffrey, your brother, his French counterpart,
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Speaker 2: according to law enforcement, and two other alleged victims. Now
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Speaker 2: five people commit suicide. Can that possibly be a coincidence,
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Speaker 2: Mark Epstein.
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Speaker 3: There's also other things that they used a question like
7:01
Speaker 3: also a few days after the death, Bill Barr, an
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Speaker 3: attorney general, you know, came out publicly and stated that
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Speaker 3: he saw the video and he saw that nobody went
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Speaker 3: in or out of the tier, and that convinced him
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Speaker 3: it was a suicide. And when I heard that, I
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Speaker 3: thought this is ridiculous. I thought, why is the Attorney
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Speaker 3: general himself watching this whole night long video, you know,
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Speaker 3: putting he up somebody in his office watch it and say, hey, Bill,
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Speaker 3: nobody went in or out. That was number one and
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Speaker 3: number two to assume that he was it was a
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Speaker 3: suicide because nobody went in or out when there were
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Speaker 3: twelve other prisoners on that tier, I would not have
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Speaker 3: to go in or out of that door if they
7:39
Speaker 3: were going to kill somebody on the tier. And I
7:42
Speaker 3: was told that shell doors were left unlocked that night.
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Speaker 3: And I was also told by somebody who was familiar
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Speaker 3: with the prison that they weren't surprised to hear that.
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Speaker 3: So and also to think that somebody could get to
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Speaker 3: Jeffrey's tier, go inside, you know, kill somebody, and then
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Speaker 3: leave completely undetected, it's just like a stupid statement that
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Speaker 3: you know, that's not what you're based on. We can't
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Speaker 3: find out who the other prisoners on that tier were,
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Speaker 3: when did they get there, and where are they now.
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Speaker 3: There's been no interviews of all the prisoners on the tier,
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Speaker 3: which would normally be done in a situation like that.
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Speaker 3: There's no record of that. So when I heard Bill
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Speaker 3: bar say that, and then you know, the forensic pathologist
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Speaker 3: said they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked
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Speaker 3: too much like a homicide. I mean, if you just
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Speaker 3: looked at the facts of this and forget it was
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Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein and forget the case against them for a minute,
8:37
Speaker 3: you know, this doesn't look like the suicide, you would
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Speaker 3: investigate this as a homicide. And then also the night
8:45
Speaker 3: when they locked up. But we have there as the
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Speaker 3: record of you know, we know about the two gods
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Speaker 3: that got in trouble, you know, because they weren't doing
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Speaker 3: the rounds, you know, Toba Noel and Michael Thomas. No
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Speaker 3: Michael Thomas came on shift in the middle of the night,
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Speaker 3: so he wasn't there, and they locked up the tear
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Speaker 3: and there's never any there's never ever just one god.
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Speaker 3: There on reports, there's a mention of an unnamed god
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Speaker 3: number one and an unnamed god number two. There are
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Speaker 3: questions who are they and why are they unnamed? Are
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Speaker 3: they actual prison guards? Could they have been put there to,
9:17
Speaker 3: you know, to kill somebody and then they disappeared into
9:20
Speaker 3: ether without any record of who they are. There's all
9:23
Speaker 3: these unanswered questions that in a normal wear honest face,
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Speaker 3: even if it was a suicide, these questions would not
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Speaker 3: be kept secret. There's too much, too much mystery about it.
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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Mark Epstein, if this were
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Speaker 2: any case but your brothers, everything would be very, very
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Speaker 2: transparent with a simple for you Freedom of Information Act request.
9:46
Speaker 2: Because Epstein's case is over, he's dead, it is no
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Speaker 2: longer an ongoing investigation as it relates to him. So
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Speaker 2: if that's true, why haven't all of these questions and answered?
10:00
Speaker 2: And why haven't these files been released? I've handled literally
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Speaker 2: so many cases, thousands of cases, I can't count them.
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Speaker 2: And when a case is over, When a case is over,
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Speaker 2: say the Purp dies or the appeals are exhausted, the
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Speaker 2: files are released. The Purp's dead, Epstein is dead, these
10:21
Speaker 2: files should be released. You know you mentioned FBI director
10:25
Speaker 2: Cash Ptel. Did you state Mark Epstein that Patel stated,
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Speaker 2: you know, I know a suicide when I see one.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that it's a public record. He said
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Speaker 3: that in the of them in hearing. He listed his
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Speaker 3: credentials as a prosecute.
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Speaker 1: He's not a medical doctor, he's a lawyer.
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Speaker 3: Well, that's what I said before I said he's not
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Speaker 3: a forensic pathologist. He doesn't have a medical degree. I
10:46
Speaker 3: even joked, I said, maybe he has a boy Scout
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Speaker 3: merit page in first aid. What is he basing his
10:51
Speaker 3: expertise on. That's a question. Also, I understand something when
10:54
Speaker 3: the government quickly calls this suicide, but that sort of
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Speaker 3: kills any investigation because if it's a suicide, there's usually
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Speaker 3: there's two questions on the suicide. One how did they
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Speaker 3: do it? And two? Why? You know? And how do
11:09
Speaker 3: they do it? Is usually simple, I say, if you
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Speaker 3: find somebody spat it on the sidewalk where they jumped
11:14
Speaker 3: off of a building, if they're laying in a pool
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Speaker 3: of blood with a gun on the floor, well they
11:18
Speaker 3: shot themselves. You know, it's a pretty simple answer of
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Speaker 3: how somebody committed suicide. The why doesn't matter because you know,
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Speaker 3: in this case he's dead, but it stops the investigation.
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Speaker 3: There's no reason to investigate any further. That's why they.
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Speaker 2: Call it, of course, because in jurisdictions, for a suicide
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Speaker 2: is a crime, the purp is the dead person.
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Speaker 1: It's very obvious.
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Speaker 2: So when something is named a suicide, when it's determined
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Speaker 2: to be a suicide, that is all investigation. There's nothing
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Speaker 2: to investigate if it's a suicide, homicide altogether different. In
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Speaker 2: addition to Patel, now the theory is emerging Mark Epstein
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Speaker 2: that your brother, Jeffrey Epstein, was not just a multimillionaire,
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Speaker 2: that he was actually a US and Israeli intelligence service spy,
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Speaker 2: and that that is why the files are not being
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Speaker 2: released because there is sensitive information in the files as
12:27
Speaker 2: it relates to US security. What do you make of
12:32
Speaker 2: the claim that your brother was, in a fact an
12:36
Speaker 2: intelligence agent.
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Speaker 3: Well, I've heard this for years already. This is that
12:40
Speaker 3: the first time that's been raised. I have no idea
12:42
Speaker 3: to tell me what he was doing. So, and I
12:45
Speaker 3: said before, I don't want to speculate on anything, Because
12:48
Speaker 3: I start speculating, I lose credibility. I like to stick
12:51
Speaker 3: to facts. So I have no idea about what Jeffrey
12:55
Speaker 3: was doing, if for anything, but I do believe he
12:59
Speaker 3: was built to quiet for the information he had.
13:02
Speaker 1: What information?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I've said publicly before in the in the
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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen election, he told me that he he didn't
13:08
Speaker 3: tell me what he knew, but if he said if
13:10
Speaker 3: he knew what he if he said what he knew
13:12
Speaker 3: about the candidates trumping won, they'd have to cancel the election.
13:16
Speaker 3: So he obviously had some dirt on on Donald, you know.
13:19
Speaker 3: So he said if he said what he knew, they'd
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Speaker 3: have to cancel the election. That's what he told me.
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Speaker 3: You can make out of that whatever you want, But
13:28
Speaker 3: that's a quovoute. Oh you could take You could take
13:32
Speaker 3: that wherever you want.
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Speaker 1: What disturbs you the most?
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Speaker 2: Mark Epstein, let's get off the allegations that your brother
13:39
Speaker 2: was a spy all that, although that has now reared
13:42
Speaker 2: its ugly head as an excuse why these files are
13:46
Speaker 2: not being released. We've all heard of redaction. I've had
13:51
Speaker 2: to redact many, many documents before they are released. And
13:56
Speaker 2: you are to redact or mark out with a white
13:59
Speaker 2: man mark. That's what I'm talking about. Redact only sensitive portions.
14:04
Speaker 2: Why can't the files be released with any intelligence related information?
14:09
Speaker 1: If there is any redacted?
14:11
Speaker 2: What about the other thousands and thousands and thousands of pages?
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Speaker 3: Mark, Well, as far as I'm concerned, they should release
14:18
Speaker 3: everything they can. I have no qualms with that, you know.
14:22
Speaker 3: And then the question also becomes, you know, if Bill
14:24
Speaker 3: Bond made the statement, you know, to quash the investigation.
14:28
Speaker 3: You know that Jeff it was a suicide, which, like
14:30
Speaker 3: you said, end's investigations and Krispateell's claiming it's a suicide
14:34
Speaker 3: without any expertise, without even he never saw the body either,
14:38
Speaker 3: you know, and it's quickly deemed the suicide. You know,
14:42
Speaker 3: who if he was killed, who ordered the hit? So
14:46
Speaker 3: to speak? Who are these people covering up for? That
14:48
Speaker 3: should be the question that we're looking at if it was,
14:53
Speaker 3: because most people who look at all the facts believe
14:55
Speaker 3: it was a homicide. You know, people see a little
14:58
Speaker 3: bit here, a little bit there. You know, we get
15:00
Speaker 3: these fifteen minutes to talk on a podcast or something.
15:03
Speaker 3: You have to look at all the facts. That will
15:05
Speaker 3: take you quite a lot of time. We have mastered
15:07
Speaker 3: a lot of information and everyone who has seen the
15:10
Speaker 3: bulk of it. Nobody thinks it's a suicide, and so
15:13
Speaker 3: who is being protected? That's the question.
15:22
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we are speaking to Mark Epstein.
15:30
Speaker 1: This is Jeffrey Epstein's brother.
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Speaker 2: And the issue is not whether we like or hate,
15:36
Speaker 2: love or hate Jeffrey Epstein. We don't have to condone
15:41
Speaker 2: what he was accused of doing. Of course we don't.
15:44
Speaker 2: The issue is why are these files not being released?
15:51
Speaker 1: Now?
15:51
Speaker 2: We've been told from the highest source that there is
15:55
Speaker 2: no quote client list. There may not be a client
16:00
Speaker 2: list in the way that you imagine you open a
16:02
Speaker 2: little black book and you go through it alphabetically and
16:05
Speaker 2: you find names and phone numbers and emails and addresses.
16:08
Speaker 1: That may not exist.
16:10
Speaker 2: But those files could contain indications and names, descriptions of events, flights,
16:19
Speaker 2: and so much more to impugne the integrity of many,
16:24
Speaker 2: many highly placed individuals, multimillionaires, celebrities. We don't know. Why
16:31
Speaker 2: don't we know? Because the files have not been released.
16:34
Speaker 2: And now with claims that the video from the night
16:38
Speaker 2: of the death, as Mark calls it, the murder, has
16:43
Speaker 2: been doctored, it was released as raw footage. It is
16:48
Speaker 2: anything but raw.
16:50
Speaker 1: According to expert something.
16:54
Speaker 3: You know, I don't think somebody got into the tier
16:57
Speaker 3: to kill them and then left, So the video is
16:59
Speaker 3: not going to show that. But what I want to see,
17:01
Speaker 3: which also we can't get, is the video of the
17:04
Speaker 3: infirmary area of the prison because when Jeffrey was found
17:09
Speaker 3: dead after they tried to work on him, which I
17:12
Speaker 3: don't know why, because the autopsy showed he was dead
17:15
Speaker 3: for at least two hours when he was found at least,
17:19
Speaker 3: most likely a lot more and there's other reasons for that,
17:21
Speaker 3: but at least two hours. So he was taken to
17:24
Speaker 3: the infirmary. When the fire Department EMP people got to
17:28
Speaker 3: the jail from the nine one one call, Jeff's body
17:32
Speaker 3: was already in the infirmary. So I'd like to see
17:35
Speaker 3: the video footage, you know, all the cameras from the pision,
17:39
Speaker 3: so where he was, through the infirmary and in the
17:42
Speaker 3: infirmary itself, because this camera's all over that place. We
17:45
Speaker 3: can't get any additional video footage because this would show
17:48
Speaker 3: the condition that Jeff's body was in, how it was handled,
17:52
Speaker 3: and then there's a picture of them wheeling him out
17:55
Speaker 3: of the vision. They go to the hospitals on a
17:58
Speaker 3: gurney and he's got a brace on, and he's in
18:01
Speaker 3: debated and the DMT guys are squeezing in the air
18:04
Speaker 3: balloon to try to get into his lungs. Now, these
18:07
Speaker 3: are professional medical people. It's just's been dead for two hours,
18:12
Speaker 3: So sort of why the charade of trying to make
18:15
Speaker 3: it look like he was potentially revivable? I mean, they wasn't.
18:18
Speaker 3: You know the mark in his neck that you saw
18:20
Speaker 3: in a photograph, it stayed in his neck. That's the
18:23
Speaker 3: indication that he was dead for at least two hours,
18:25
Speaker 3: you know, So why And then I have a photograph
18:27
Speaker 3: of him from the hospital where he's actually wearing a
18:30
Speaker 3: hospital gown. You know, he's dead on the gurney with
18:33
Speaker 3: a hospital gown on. Someone put his arms through the
18:36
Speaker 3: sleeves and you know it kind of tie in the back.
18:38
Speaker 3: But why did they dress this dead body in a
18:40
Speaker 3: hospital gown? Normally dead bodies are either in body bags
18:44
Speaker 3: are covered by a sheet. So why the charade? Also,
18:47
Speaker 3: what I was told by people on the scene is
18:50
Speaker 3: that there was somebody there with a handheld video camera
18:53
Speaker 3: in the prison infirmary and in the hospital. Where's the
18:56
Speaker 3: footage from that handheld video camera, stuff that wouldn't like,
19:02
Speaker 3: as you said, would normally be open and available in
19:05
Speaker 3: a regular case and a regular suicide, but nothing was
19:09
Speaker 3: being released.
19:10
Speaker 1: Mark.
19:10
Speaker 2: I've got to tell you something, Mark, I have investigated
19:15
Speaker 2: and prosecuted and covered literally thousands of homicides of deaths.
19:23
Speaker 2: I've never seen a dead body put into a hospital gown. Never,
19:31
Speaker 2: not once. That's very disturbing. I had not heard that
19:35
Speaker 2: detail until you just told me that. So you have
19:38
Speaker 2: a video of your brother wearing a hospital gown.
19:41
Speaker 3: Not a video photograph. That's unmistakable. It's Jeffrey in the
19:45
Speaker 3: hospital gown on the journey in the hospital. Yeah. And
19:47
Speaker 3: when I when I first when I first saw that,
19:49
Speaker 3: I got a question that somebody who was on the seat,
19:52
Speaker 3: I said, what was Jeffrey wearing when he was found?
19:54
Speaker 3: I thought, well, if he was wearing a hospital gown
19:56
Speaker 3: when he was found, it makes sense. But turns take no,
19:59
Speaker 3: he wasn't wearing hospital gown. He was wearing the pre's
20:01
Speaker 3: an orange shorts and shirt when he was found. So
20:05
Speaker 3: someone went through the trouble of dressing this dead body
20:09
Speaker 3: in a hospital. Gain.
20:10
Speaker 2: Why do you believe that there is a cover up happening?
20:14
Speaker 1: Right now.
20:15
Speaker 2: I already know you believe he was murdered. You don't
20:18
Speaker 2: refer to it as a suicide or a death. You
20:19
Speaker 2: refer to Jeffrey Epstein's murder your brother. Why do you
20:23
Speaker 2: believe there's a cover up now, Mark Epstein, Well.
20:27
Speaker 3: It's always been covered up. It never came out and
20:29
Speaker 3: said it was, you know, anything other than a suicide,
20:32
Speaker 3: even though the actual pathologists who did the autopsy, the
20:37
Speaker 3: only two, both claimed that they couldn't quote it a
20:40
Speaker 3: suicide because it looked too much like a homicide.
20:43
Speaker 2: Mark, according to reports, you actually laughed at the handling
20:47
Speaker 2: of the so called Epstein files.
20:50
Speaker 3: Why, well, just again, it's just so blatantly wrong. It's
20:56
Speaker 3: just wrong the way this is being handled. And the
20:59
Speaker 3: kids believe as I do, that this is a cover up.
21:02
Speaker 3: It's sort of like, you know, every time I said before,
21:04
Speaker 3: every time they do something, they say something, it just
21:08
Speaker 3: makes it puts their foot further down their throats. They're
21:10
Speaker 3: digging a deeper hole for themselves because nobody's believing anymore.
21:14
Speaker 3: But they're saying even you know, the supporters on the
21:17
Speaker 3: you know, it's not a part of initial for me,
21:19
Speaker 3: you know, but the President's supporters that are getting really
21:23
Speaker 3: annoyed and breaking away because they don't like they don't
21:27
Speaker 3: like being liked.
21:28
Speaker 2: I'm with you on that mark. I'm not a Democrat
21:30
Speaker 2: and I'm not a Republican. I really don't care. I
21:32
Speaker 2: think they all lie and I have to hold my
21:34
Speaker 2: nose when I vote. That said, I don't have a
21:38
Speaker 2: political dog in the fight, but I know we were
21:40
Speaker 2: promised that these files would be released. We were told
21:44
Speaker 2: over and over and over, and now they're not. It
21:49
Speaker 2: stinks to high Heaven the case is over. Why are
21:53
Speaker 2: the files being withheld? You stated that you laughed. What
21:59
Speaker 2: is amusing about it is that your Are you laughing
22:03
Speaker 2: out of irony?
22:05
Speaker 1: What makes you laugh about this situation?
22:08
Speaker 3: Well? Well, the thing I really think that was the
22:10
Speaker 3: main thing was Cash Purtell's line, I which is, how
22:13
Speaker 3: stupid is that him to claim, you know, was suicide
22:16
Speaker 3: when you see when when he didn't see this suicide,
22:19
Speaker 3: He didn't see Jeff's body or anything about it. This
22:21
Speaker 3: was almost six years ago and he's now claiming, you know,
22:24
Speaker 3: with suicide when you see it. I mean, how did
22:27
Speaker 3: he expect anyone to believe him give him any credibility
22:30
Speaker 3: on a statement like that to mean it was funny.
22:32
Speaker 3: It was just it was so ridiculous.
22:35
Speaker 2: Maybe I would laugh if I weren't so disturbed as
22:37
Speaker 2: a crime victim myself that we're not getting the answers
22:40
Speaker 2: that we were promised. Do you believe Elaine Maxwell knows anything?
22:45
Speaker 3: She was around a lot. You know, I have nothing
22:48
Speaker 3: the personally in this in the dog fight with her,
22:50
Speaker 3: but yeah, she probably knows a bunch. She was around
22:53
Speaker 3: for a lot of this stuff. That was the area
22:55
Speaker 3: when she and Jeffrey were close.
22:56
Speaker 2: Mark Epstein joining us Jeffrey Epstein's brother. He is convinced
23:01
Speaker 2: Epstein did not die by his own hand and has
23:06
Speaker 2: brought up multiple inconsistencies with what we are being told
23:11
Speaker 2: is true.
23:13
Speaker 1: Final thought, Mark.
23:15
Speaker 3: It's not only me that's convinced. It's everybody who looks
23:17
Speaker 3: at all the information we've mayreed so far, and there's
23:20
Speaker 3: more coming in. We're finding new information that will be out.
23:24
Speaker 3: But again, I don't want to speculate, and I don't
23:26
Speaker 3: want to put information out that I don't know for sure.
23:29
Speaker 3: But there's more stuff coming out, and it's not just me,
23:34
Speaker 3: it's not just my fight. A lot of people, most
23:37
Speaker 3: people who've seen it's not all the people who've seen
23:40
Speaker 3: all the information we have no but out of that group,
23:43
Speaker 3: nobody believes it was a suicide.
23:44
Speaker 2: Well, you know, Mark, you just says something else extremely
23:46
Speaker 2: interesting to me and significant. It's not just about you.
23:50
Speaker 2: It's not just about your brother, Jeffrey Epstein. It's about
23:55
Speaker 2: what's right and what's wrong, and broken promises and the
24:00
Speaker 2: fact that our whole system is based on seeking the truth,
24:05
Speaker 2: regardless of what that truth may be. Maybe we'll get
24:09
Speaker 2: the files and there'll be nothing in there. Maybe it
24:12
Speaker 2: will be this morning I had oatmeal, then I took
24:14
Speaker 2: a job in Central Park. I don't know. But the
24:17
Speaker 2: fact that we're not getting them, the fact that we're
24:20
Speaker 2: being told there's nothing in the files, well, if that's true,
24:25
Speaker 2: then release them.
24:27
Speaker 1: This is no way to run an investigation.
24:31
Speaker 3: In other part is that every American citizen should be
24:34
Speaker 3: concerned that here you have an American citizen who was
24:37
Speaker 3: killed in in prison under federal protection. Yeah, that should
24:41
Speaker 3: that should diserve everybody if that could happen. Well, so
24:43
Speaker 3: what's part of the story is that in a few
24:47
Speaker 3: days after the death, they were trying to have to
24:52
Speaker 3: appeal the bail decision. Jeffrey to see if he can
24:55
Speaker 3: get bail, and he was putting up it would have
24:58
Speaker 3: been the largest bail in US Street. And the hearing
25:01
Speaker 3: was coming up for that, so you know, again I
25:05
Speaker 3: wasn't involved on the day to day thing, and I
25:06
Speaker 3: found out about that afterwards that the hearing was soon
25:09
Speaker 3: to come. And I know Jeffrey. I would say, well,
25:12
Speaker 3: you know, if he was going to commit suicide, he
25:16
Speaker 3: would wait to see if he got bailed, because if
25:18
Speaker 3: he got bailed, he'd be out of jail. He'd be
25:20
Speaker 3: living in his house with an ankle monitor on and
25:24
Speaker 3: armed guards to make sure he didn't go anywhere, and cameras,
25:26
Speaker 3: you know, but he wouldn't be in jail. So why
25:28
Speaker 3: would you kill yourself before that bail hearing. I could
25:32
Speaker 3: see if he had the bail hearing and it was denied,
25:34
Speaker 3: and then he didn't want to spend another jail year
25:36
Speaker 3: in jail awaiting trial. Okay, another's not your reasons to
25:40
Speaker 3: take yourself out. But that hearing didn't come up yet,
25:43
Speaker 3: it was soon to happen, So why would he kill
25:45
Speaker 3: himself before the hearing for bail? Doesn't make sense, anybody.
25:51
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't.
25:52
Speaker 2: It doesn't makes his mister Epstein, we wait as God
25:56
Speaker 2: willing justice unfolds.
26:00
Speaker 1: Goodbye, Miss Epstein.
26:01
Speaker 2: Joining us now is a very special guest, Spencer Couven,
26:05
Speaker 2: chief legal Officer Gold Law, who has represented nine Epstein victims,
26:14
Speaker 2: nine nine now.
26:16
Speaker 1: Prosecuted a lot of cases.
26:18
Speaker 2: And when I would have three or four victims, that
26:22
Speaker 2: would be like an avalanche. You, a single lawyer, have
26:27
Speaker 2: represented nine, which tells me that there are many, many
26:32
Speaker 2: more out there, probably that we don't even know about.
26:37
Speaker 2: It's concerning to me, mister con First of all, thank
26:40
Speaker 2: you for being with us.
26:41
Speaker 1: That there are five.
26:44
Speaker 2: Suicides, five alleged suicides connected to this case. Does somebody
26:55
Speaker 2: in this universe want me to believe that five people
26:58
Speaker 2: connected to this case all committed suicide? And let's see,
27:04
Speaker 2: there's Epstein, there's Virginia'sjufray, There's a French Epstein who was
27:08
Speaker 2: a pimp of little girls. There was Carolin Angiano, and
27:14
Speaker 2: there was leip sky Patrick. That's five people, three of
27:19
Speaker 2: those Epstein victims, three dead. One is Epstein and the
27:24
Speaker 2: other is his French counterpart. That they would trade little girls.
27:28
Speaker 2: As you're just twelve years.
27:29
Speaker 1: Old, he ends up dead.
27:31
Speaker 2: Wow, are any of your clients worried about how people
27:36
Speaker 2: connected to this case are dropping dead light flies.
27:39
Speaker 4: I got to tell you, Nancy, you know a couple
27:41
Speaker 4: of issues. First of all, the moment he was re
27:44
Speaker 4: arrested in New York, when his plane landed, or New
27:47
Speaker 4: Jersey at that moment, I did an interview shortly thereafter,
27:51
Speaker 4: advising the general public he was never making it out alive,
27:55
Speaker 4: and you know, prophetically he didn't. I was one of
27:59
Speaker 4: the first said he wouldn't make it out alive, and frankly,
28:02
Speaker 4: I continue to be a disbeliever in the story that's
28:05
Speaker 4: been populated by the FEDS and the Department of Justice.
28:09
Speaker 4: There are just way too many connections here. I can
28:12
Speaker 4: also tell you exclusively because I don't know that I've
28:14
Speaker 4: ever talked about this before, but shortly after he passed
28:18
Speaker 4: in jail, I received a call from one of the
28:21
Speaker 4: guards at the facility who had retired. This is somebody
28:24
Speaker 4: that wasn't working there at the time, but was able
28:27
Speaker 4: to speak with me on authority because he had worked
28:31
Speaker 4: there and said, there is no way that someone within
28:35
Speaker 4: that type of a facility could have the opportunity to
28:37
Speaker 4: commit suicide. This is the most secure, one of the
28:41
Speaker 4: most secure prisons we have in the United States. It
28:43
Speaker 4: is a prison within a prison within a prison. It
28:47
Speaker 4: is three levels of high security, constantly monitored. And it
28:51
Speaker 4: was unbelievable to him that somebody in there would potentially
28:55
Speaker 4: be able to commit suicide. And then look at the photographs.
28:58
Speaker 4: This is a gentleman that was on suicide watch just
29:01
Speaker 4: a few weeks prior, and yet they give him sheets,
29:04
Speaker 4: and they give him pill bottles, and they give him wires.
29:08
Speaker 4: In the photographs you can see all of the things
29:10
Speaker 4: that they gave him that potentially they could then use
29:14
Speaker 4: later to say, oh, well, look at all this stuff
29:16
Speaker 4: he used to commit suicide. It's just absolutely unbelievable. It's
29:20
Speaker 4: unbelievable to me, it's unbelievable to the victims I represent.
29:23
Speaker 2: Well, Spencer hold on moment, I want to follow up
29:26
Speaker 2: before I lose the thought. Spencer Coban joining US Chief
29:28
Speaker 2: Legal Officer gold to Law, who has represented nine and
29:32
Speaker 2: counting Epstein victims.
29:35
Speaker 1: I've been in a lot of prisons and a.
29:37
Speaker 2: Lot of jails, a lot more than I can even
29:41
Speaker 2: remember since I started prosecuting violent crimes in nineteen eighty seven.
29:47
Speaker 1: That said Spencer, You're right.
29:51
Speaker 2: Never in any jail, any penitentiary that I have, any
29:56
Speaker 2: youth facility, a GV jail that I've ever seen, did
30:01
Speaker 2: a cell have as much strewn around as the Epstein
30:06
Speaker 2: jail cell. When I saw that, I'm like, that's impossible.
30:11
Speaker 2: Inmates are not allowed all of those sheets, blankets, acute trema.
30:18
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen. Why Because it is a homicide suicide risk.
30:23
Speaker 2: Those sheets can be torn into strips and used to.
30:26
Speaker 1: Commit a homicide. You do not see that in a facility.
30:32
Speaker 2: And the moment I saw that, Spencer, I knew it
30:35
Speaker 2: was wrong.
30:36
Speaker 1: What we're showing right now that would never happen.
30:39
Speaker 2: Anybody in the justice system knows this is no in oh, Spencer.
30:46
Speaker 4: This is top level security prison, right, this is where
30:49
Speaker 4: we hold terrorists and high level prisoners. You're absolutely right, Nancy,
30:54
Speaker 4: there is no way. And I've been inside jails as
30:57
Speaker 4: well in the work that I do on behalf of victims,
31:00
Speaker 4: interviewing people, and this is just impossible. It was impossible
31:04
Speaker 4: to believe when I saw it. It was impossible to
31:06
Speaker 4: believe on behalf of my clients. I couldn't believe it
31:10
Speaker 4: at the time, and my clients couldn't believe it either.
31:13
Speaker 4: You know, it's just atrocious, and I want to bring
31:16
Speaker 4: you back. You know, I've been representing victims going back
31:19
Speaker 4: to the original prosecution of this case in Palm Beach.
31:22
Speaker 4: I represented victim number one, that was a fourteen year
31:26
Speaker 4: old girl that I helped walk through the criminal justice
31:29
Speaker 4: and then subsequently the civil justice system, which started the
31:33
Speaker 4: landfall of future victims of Jeffrey Epstein. And you said
31:37
Speaker 4: before how many. I can tell you that in my
31:40
Speaker 4: contacts with the FBI during those investigations, there were literally
31:44
Speaker 4: hundreds of victims, hundreds of young girls who had been
31:48
Speaker 4: trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell. They were out there. And
31:52
Speaker 4: then there were more than hundreds that actually submitted claims
31:56
Speaker 4: when the funds were seized over in the Virgin Islands
31:58
Speaker 4: after his arrest. So the victims are numerous, The stories
32:04
Speaker 4: are voluminous. They involve high profile individuals in the business community,
32:09
Speaker 4: high profile politicians, royalty, you name it. Jeffrey Epstein had
32:14
Speaker 4: the goods on all of them, and there were a
32:17
Speaker 4: lot of people. I have no doubt that we're afraid
32:19
Speaker 4: of what you had to say.
32:25
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
32:32
Speaker 2: I'm curious, Spencer Couven and I recall when you said this,
32:39
Speaker 2: when Jeffrey Epstein touched down at the private airstrip at
32:43
Speaker 2: Titterborough and he was arrested. You said, he'll never make
32:49
Speaker 2: it out of jail, He'll never come out alive.
32:52
Speaker 1: He'll be killed. You called it. How did you know
32:57
Speaker 1: that was going to happen?
32:58
Speaker 2: I know you're not clairvoyant, so you had to deduce
33:02
Speaker 2: from the facts that he would be killed behind bars,
33:05
Speaker 2: and you were right.
33:06
Speaker 4: I got to tell you based on the information not
33:08
Speaker 4: only that I knew at the time that I could disclose,
33:11
Speaker 4: but based on the information that I still to this
33:13
Speaker 4: day unfortunately can't disclose based on attorney client privilege and
33:17
Speaker 4: the people that were involved in some of these trading
33:21
Speaker 4: for sexual favors over the years. There was just no way.
33:26
Speaker 4: These people were at too high of a level, They
33:28
Speaker 4: were too influential, and someone like Epstein with that type
33:32
Speaker 4: of information I just knew, was never going to make
33:35
Speaker 4: it out of that system alive. It just wasn't going
33:38
Speaker 4: to happen.
33:38
Speaker 2: We are showing you video now of the prison cell in.
33:43
Speaker 1: Which Epstein died. His brother tells me.
33:47
Speaker 2: He refuses to call a suicide because he's convinced it's
33:50
Speaker 2: a homicide. And again, he's got no skin in the game,
33:53
Speaker 2: no dog in the fight. It doesn't affect the brother
33:56
Speaker 2: one way or the other, whether it's a suicide or
33:59
Speaker 2: a homicide.
34:00
Speaker 1: He's not getting any money out of it. He's not
34:01
Speaker 1: doing a book.
34:02
Speaker 2: Deal as far as I know, he's just saying this
34:05
Speaker 2: is no suicide. If you look at that video, Spencer,
34:12
Speaker 2: it shows the elevator, which is the only way in
34:14
Speaker 2: and out, although I'm sure they've got to have an
34:17
Speaker 2: emergency exit stairs, right. But that said, I think that
34:22
Speaker 2: may be pictured in the video as well, near the
34:24
Speaker 2: there you go by the elevator. That said, that doesn't
34:28
Speaker 2: exclude or preclude his neighbors who had been moved in
34:33
Speaker 2: and out of the sale block, who was there that night. Amazingly,
34:38
Speaker 2: those names have not been released. What do you make
34:41
Speaker 2: of it, Spencer?
34:42
Speaker 4: You know, there are a number of things. And I
34:44
Speaker 4: heard your interview with his brother shortly before, and he
34:47
Speaker 4: makes an excellent point with respect to the video. We
34:51
Speaker 4: don't see the video of him in the infirmary. In
34:53
Speaker 4: the infirmary, we need to see that video to see
34:56
Speaker 4: what learns he had as he came out of hisself.
34:58
Speaker 4: But more importantly, who was working on that block that night.
35:01
Speaker 4: We need to see the interviews, We need to see
35:03
Speaker 4: the names of the people that are involved, and we
35:06
Speaker 4: need to see all of that video, not just the
35:09
Speaker 4: snippets they've decided to show to us. And we all
35:12
Speaker 4: know in this day and age, video can easily be edited.
35:15
Speaker 4: If you watch that video and the timecode and the video,
35:18
Speaker 4: and I've watched it numerous times now, there are sections
35:21
Speaker 4: of that where the timecode jumps and it is weird.
35:25
Speaker 4: It's strange. I don't know what to make of it.
35:27
Speaker 4: But if this is the raw video, I would be surprised.
35:30
Speaker 4: I think they've processed this video through something and that
35:33
Speaker 4: they've probably cut things out, but I can't be sure
35:36
Speaker 4: of that. But at the end of the day, release
35:38
Speaker 4: the names of the people that were on that block
35:40
Speaker 4: and let us know who was there, so that the
35:42
Speaker 4: public can talk to them and interview them like you're
35:45
Speaker 4: doing here today with me, and find out what they know.
35:48
Speaker 2: Spencer, I think we should demand more than that. I
35:51
Speaker 2: don't want just a list of names prepared by the government.
35:56
Speaker 2: I don't believe that anymore. And I'm certainly not a
35:58
Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist at all. Again, I don't think people can
36:02
Speaker 2: keep their yap shut long enough to maintain a conspiracy.
36:06
Speaker 1: But unlike any other case that has been closed with
36:10
Speaker 1: this case is closed with the death of Epstein.
36:14
Speaker 2: This is subject to for your Freedom of Information Act.
36:16
Speaker 2: There is no reason for these files not to be released.
36:20
Speaker 2: We were promised to release. It didn't happen. Why we're
36:24
Speaker 2: being told, oh, there's nothing there. Well, if there's nothing there,
36:27
Speaker 2: then why not release the files. I think we need
36:30
Speaker 2: the entire set of files, not a list that somebody
36:34
Speaker 2: in DJ makes up pursue it to what their boss
36:36
Speaker 2: tells them to do.
36:38
Speaker 1: I don't believe that anymore. You also say that.
36:43
Speaker 2: You're convinced one hundred percent sure that everything has not
36:48
Speaker 2: been released, and you are falling back on thousands of
36:51
Speaker 2: hours of surveillance video from Epstein's homes that remain sealed,
36:58
Speaker 2: so you know for a fact everything has not been released.
37:02
Speaker 4: It is absolutely certain that everything hasn't been released. And
37:06
Speaker 4: the RUS with respect to release the grand jury testimony, Again,
37:11
Speaker 4: that is only a very small snippet of information. We're
37:15
Speaker 4: talking thousands of hours of videotape surveillance in home camera
37:20
Speaker 4: videos that were taken from the Manhattan mansion, the Saint Thomas,
37:24
Speaker 4: Virgin Island mansion, and the Palm Beach mansion that I
37:27
Speaker 4: know exists because I was one of the only attorneys
37:31
Speaker 4: early on in the case to actually walk through Epstein's
37:34
Speaker 4: Palm Beach mansion after the incident and during our case,
37:38
Speaker 4: and I saw firsthand places where he had put the
37:41
Speaker 4: video cameras in the rooms inside of his home, in
37:44
Speaker 4: the corner of those rooms, including in bedrooms, his massage room,
37:48
Speaker 4: and other places in the home. I know it exists.
37:52
Speaker 4: The FBI knows it exists, and I guarantee that the
37:55
Speaker 4: Department of Justice has done summaries of the videotapes. Where
37:58
Speaker 4: are the summaries? Where are the people identified in the videos?
38:02
Speaker 4: Where are the videos? You know, at the end of
38:04
Speaker 4: the day, the public needs to see this information and
38:07
Speaker 4: judge for themselves. And you're right. If there are miners
38:10
Speaker 4: that are identified in there, redact those names. If there
38:14
Speaker 4: are videos of miners, you know, blur the images. But
38:17
Speaker 4: who else was in this home? Who was there and
38:20
Speaker 4: who was part of this criminal enterprise that Epstein ran
38:24
Speaker 4: for years?
38:24
Speaker 1: Spencer. Question.
38:26
Speaker 2: Guys joining me Spencer Couven chief legal officer Gold Law,
38:31
Speaker 2: who has represented so far and counting nine of Epstein victims.
38:36
Speaker 2: Do you believe, Spencer, that any of your clients, some
38:42
Speaker 2: miners at the time, do.
38:44
Speaker 1: They have reason to believe they were videoed?
38:46
Speaker 4: All of them that were inside the home had a
38:48
Speaker 4: fear that they were video taped. Absolutely, because once it
38:52
Speaker 4: came out that there were cameras in the home, then
38:55
Speaker 4: they were afraid that there were going to be videotapes
38:57
Speaker 4: that were going to be released of them. And they
39:00
Speaker 4: still to this day live in fear. You know, I
39:02
Speaker 4: mentioned I represented victim number one. You know, she has
39:07
Speaker 4: still been anonymous up until this day. It has been
39:10
Speaker 4: almost twenty years since those cases were prosecuted, and both
39:14
Speaker 4: in civil and criminal court, and you know, even to
39:19
Speaker 4: this day, she's been anonymous and she's afraid that her
39:21
Speaker 4: identity will be disclosed in some of these videos.
39:24
Speaker 2: Well, not only should she be concerned about the video
39:27
Speaker 2: being released and she's in the video, but they are
39:31
Speaker 2: already five dead bodies piled up, five dead bodies, three
39:36
Speaker 2: of them Epstein victims. I assume you've brought that to
39:41
Speaker 2: the attention of your clients.
39:42
Speaker 1: Correct.
39:43
Speaker 4: Oh, I didn't need to bring it to their attention.
39:45
Speaker 4: They brought it to my attention. They are all very afraid.
39:48
Speaker 4: They're concerned for themselves, they're concerned for their family members.
39:52
Speaker 4: You've got to remember this was a defense team even
39:55
Speaker 4: at the time that was so hard on these victims
39:58
Speaker 4: that they had people in SUVs following them at all
40:02
Speaker 4: hours of the night, showing up at their jobs, you know,
40:06
Speaker 4: questioning them and making veiled threats, you know, about if
40:10
Speaker 4: they talk, what could happen to them. So they are
40:13
Speaker 4: very afraid when they start seeing bodies pile up around
40:16
Speaker 4: this whole Epstein debacle. And I call it a debacle
40:19
Speaker 4: because of the way that the federal government and the
40:21
Speaker 4: state government handed handled this prosecution. It was an absolute
40:25
Speaker 4: debacle from the beginning. And now you know, people are
40:29
Speaker 4: trying to, I believe, cover up the truth and cover
40:32
Speaker 4: up what occurred. Listen, I know for certain.
40:36
Speaker 2: Well settle hand Spencer, because it seems like everyone that
40:39
Speaker 2: speaks out mates with misfortune.
40:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sad. It's sad.
40:44
Speaker 4: You know. I was going to say, I know for
40:45
Speaker 4: certain that there are individuals high up in the corporate
40:50
Speaker 4: world who have not been disclosed that were customers of
40:54
Speaker 4: the Epstein Maxwell trade. I know they exist. I just
40:58
Speaker 4: can't talk about them because of attorney client privilege and
41:01
Speaker 4: clients that were traded to them. But they exist and
41:05
Speaker 4: they haven't been disclosed. That information's out there and the
41:08
Speaker 4: government should release all the names.
41:10
Speaker 1: Okay.
41:10
Speaker 2: Spencer Kavian is joining as chief legal officer at Gold Law,
41:15
Speaker 2: representing and counting nine Epstein victims. I'd like you to
41:19
Speaker 2: repeat what you just said in regular people talk.
41:23
Speaker 1: Okay.
41:25
Speaker 2: Not everyone is familiar with the intricacies of the Epstein case,
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Speaker 2: and I find what you said just then extremely privative.
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Speaker 2: Please repeat regarding corporate clients of Epstein's.
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Speaker 4: So, I know for certain that a number of my
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Speaker 4: clients have been traded to high level corporate individuals on
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Speaker 4: Palm Beach Island that would come and visit the island
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Speaker 4: and then make a call to the home and either
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Speaker 4: get Maxwell or Epstein and tell them they were in
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Speaker 4: town and they would like someone's quote sent over. Those
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Speaker 4: individuals told me in confidence based on attorney client privilege,
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Speaker 4: which we then relayed to the defense team for Epstein.
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Speaker 4: Those cases resolved and settled quietly under confidentiality. Now, both
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Speaker 4: my clients and Epstein wanted to remain confidential. In that circumstance,
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Speaker 4: I can't disclose those people's names. I'm duty bound under
42:23
Speaker 4: my privilege and I'm not allowed to disclose it. But
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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I know those people
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Speaker 4: exist and those people's names should be disclosed by the government.
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Speaker 2: Spencer Couven, you know you're preaching to the choir right now,
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Speaker 2: you are preaching to the choir.
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Speaker 1: I know this is wrong. I know this is wrong, and.
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Speaker 2: I also know that whoever speaks out and calls it
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Speaker 2: wrong is courting misfortune. I know that we wait as
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Speaker 2: justice unfolds, God willing.
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Speaker 1: Thank you, mister Couven. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye. Friend.
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Speaker 2: Is the saf