Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 14, Season 1: Why We Choose the Partners We Choose

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Episode 14, Season 1: Why We Choose the Partners We Choose · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dot Podcast. I am your co
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: host Sprang up the Chip here with our host, doctor
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Sarah Hensley, the owner and CEO of The Dating Decoder. Hello, Hello,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: how are you.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: I'm doing really well good.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I'm good. I feel like I haven't really gotten to
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: like see you this week or talking to you this week.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: We are usually together a lot.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is our catch up session. Yes today,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: sure so episode fourteen and today's episode is why we
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: choose the partners we choose.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, we are very predictable.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you know that better.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Than any Yeah. So people are very confused and confounded
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: about why do I keep picking the same person over
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and over again or picking the same type of person
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: over and over again. And I'm like, because your subconscious
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: is one giant, self fulfilling prophecy. So whatever is embedded
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: into your subconscious or what was imprinted there in childhood
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: is what you will seek out in adulthood. So this
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: really corresponds to attachment style, and your attachment attachment style
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: will generally predict the type of partner that you will choose.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: And so if you know your own attachment style and
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: you can start doing the work and you can start
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: earning your security. Secure always attracts secure, and then insecure
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: attracts insecure. So actually, in psychology, it's birds of a
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: feather flocked together. That's really what's true, right, And people think, no,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: that's not true. Opposites attract and it's like, well, it
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: depends on how you look at it. So insecure attracts insecure,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: but they usually have the opposite type of insecurity, right, Okay,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: so there's a nuance there, birds of a feather. Why
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: can't say that birds of a feather flock together. It
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: is hard to say birds of a feather flock together
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: in terms of generally secure attracting secure and insecure attracting insecure.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: But when you get into the nitty gritty of what
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: types of insecures attract each other, it tends to be
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: the opposite insecurity.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: You see in your practice that FA DA dynamics so
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: much more so than the others. Correct.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Correct. And the FA with the narcissist is huge too,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: because if we dig into the FA, the fearful avoidant
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: had trauma, right, even if it's little t trauma. They
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: usually had a dysfunctional parent or parents, and what was
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: imprinted into the subconscious of the fearful avoidant is love
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: is not safe. Love means getting hurt or being betrayed.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Being close to someone doesn't feel good. It can be
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: filled with a host of problems, and so the FA
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: ends up getting imprinted with this giant betrayal wound where
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: they can't really trust anyone at a subconscious level. So
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: they always have this competition going on inside of them.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: They really want love and they want intimacy, but they're
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: terribly afraid of betrayal or getting hurt, which is so
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: much different than abandonment.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Everything I say about that, I'm like, we're like, that
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: is that's me? Yeah, you know, and it's I chose
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: really terrible partners up until Josh same and you know,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: my whole family used to say, well, your picker's broken,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: your picker's broken.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Fas have a majorly broken picker.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yep, mine definitely was.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, so do all the insecure attaching es. Yeah yeah,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're you're going to be drawn to people
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: that have problems if you have problems, right, And I
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: always come across people that are like, I'm super securely attached,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: but I picked a DA and I've been in a
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: relationship with him for four years and he doesn't meet
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: any of my needs and I've been so miserable and
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: this I'm like, you are not secure. A secure person
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: would have gone ew.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably in the dating phase.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's been like ugh. So I actually just
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: had this conversation with one of my beauty providers. I
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: won't call out who she is. She's so amazing, such
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: a sweet, sweet and beautiful young lady, and she keeps
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: picking these men that are just crap. They're either severely dismissive, avoidant,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: or narcissistic. Same thing. And of course, you know, we
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: figured out she has FA attachment. You know, I'm talking
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: to her the whole time, you know, she's providing services
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: or whatever, and she's like, I just don't get why
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  Speaker 2: I'm doing this.
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  Speaker 1: And it's that mystery too, of like, you see these
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: really beautiful people, so beautiful, and they keep like picking
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: these major losers. Yeah, how why?
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: And it's because it's attachment wounds.
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  Speaker 2: It is attachment wounds.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't discriminate against beauty.
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  Speaker 2: No, gosh, no, that would make life easier for a
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  Speaker 2: lot of people if it did. But so the subconscious
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  Speaker 2: has to seek out what it didn't get in childhood
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  Speaker 2: in terms of its own happy ending. So if you
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  Speaker 2: believe on a subconscious level that love is unsafe, love
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  Speaker 2: is chaotic, Love means being hurt. You can't trust anybody.
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  Speaker 2: You are going to seek out individuals that will betray you,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: that will make you feel that level of not feeling safe,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: that will disappoint you, that will not be reliable, that
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: will let you down, that will hurt you, that will
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: cheat on you. Why because that is what you know
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: love to be. So when you meet that person, first
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: of all, the red flags are there, and instead of
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: being repelled by them, they create an anxiety fear response,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: which the person mistakes for chemistry and excitement because fear
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: and excitement have the same feeling right in the body.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: So they think they're excited. Ooh, this new person. They're
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: so attractive, they're so fun, they have all these things
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: in common with me. But they have a few red flags.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe they said something off color, they were rude, or
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: they did something, or they didn't get back to you
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: in a message or they or they canceled a date
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: last minute or something, And instead of going ugh, like
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: that wasn't cool, I don't think I like that. I
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: don't think I want to be with that. I think
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: that that's a bad sign. That doesn't feel good. People
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: like if they have any type of anxious attachment, which
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: would be the fearful avoidant or the anxious preoccupied, they're
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: going to go, oh my gosh, like what's going wrong.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I don't want to lose that attachment. I don't. I've
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: got to fix it. I've got to be the anxious
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  Speaker 2: preoccupiedal goal. I've got to be more of what they want. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I've got to figure out how to be what they
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  Speaker 2: want the fearful avoid.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: To overcome it too, Like it's like this challenge to
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: like make them into or mold them into what they
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  Speaker 1: want them to be, because I know that. Like, yes,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: with my ex specifically, it was like I will not
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: give up. Right, it was like undying love type of
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: thing where I was like, I will not give up.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Will things will get better, he will change, I will
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: make him change.
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  Speaker 2: Now, I hate it because your subconscious was desperate for
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: him to change for you, because then that would have
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: subconsciously proved your worth, right, that you were worth it
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: for that person to change because you were that bank
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: special yeah, right, And I think a lot of us
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  Speaker 2: if we're talking about fear full of Woodens. Specifically, in childhood,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: had a dysfunctional parent, and deep down we were like,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: why can't you change for me? Why can't you be
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  Speaker 2: what I need you to be as a parent for me? Yes,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: me too, absolutely, And so then when I would go
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  Speaker 2: and choose men, I would choose men that subconsciously would
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  Speaker 2: betray me that I subconsciously, Again, you don't have that
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  Speaker 2: level of awareness in your conscious mind. It's all below
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: the surface, right, So it's hard to understand until you
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: see your own patterns. You subconsciously pick up on this
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: idea that they're going to betray you, and then subconsciously
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: you're like, but hey, but if I get them to
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: stop doing that and to become this good person who
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: treats me, well, then there's my happy ending I didn't
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: get in childhood.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So the subconscious is looking for that completion as well,
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  Speaker 2: and they can get really really tricky.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fascinating, and the I feel like I relate
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: so much to the anxious, you know, attachment styles, but
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  Speaker 1: it's really the DA that fascinates most people. Yes, Like,
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  Speaker 1: why does the DA choose specific partners, okay, the ones
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: that they choose, So we usually the opposite.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So again we do usually choose our shadow. So
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  Speaker 2: the subconscious is not only looking for the familiar, but
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  Speaker 2: for evolutionary reasons, it's also looking for completion. Okay. So
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  Speaker 2: there's this concept of trait variability in evolutionary psychology that
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: says we are somewhat attracted to partners that have different
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  Speaker 2: traits that we don't inherently have, so that if we
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: mate with them and we produce offspring, then and they
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: will have the better chance of survival because they have
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: this trait variety. They have this diverse array of traits
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: that is going to help them survive. So when you
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: look at the dismissive avoidant, what does the dismissive avoidant
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  Speaker 2: subconsciously know about themselves? They know that they are not warm,
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  Speaker 2: they know that they are not open, they know that
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  Speaker 2: they are not super adventurous, they know that they're not nurturing,
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  Speaker 2: and they're subconscious, especially at first, they're so attracted to
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  Speaker 2: the openness, the warmth, the kindness, the vulnerability of someone
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  Speaker 2: with more anxious attachment, being the anxious preoccupied or the
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: fearful avoidant, They're very attracted to the warmth and kindness
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  Speaker 2: of the anxious They're very attracted to the vulnerability and
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the openness of the fearful avoidant. But soon when the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: relationship becomes high stakes and their wounds around commitment, expectation,
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  Speaker 2: meeting people's needs, giving their time away, losing their independence
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  Speaker 2: start to come up, which is what happens with longevity,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: then they start to get turned off by those things, right,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: the anxious person and the fearful avoidant. I would say
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: that this is true for both of them. They are
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: attracted to the stability and the reliability and the emotional
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: control of the DA. So das present as very emotionally stable,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: especially in the beginning of relationships, and if they've been
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: with a partner that's been narcissistic in the past and
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: been very volatile in the past, the DA can feel
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: very safe. I know that was certainly true for me
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: coming out of my chaotic marriage with someone who had
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: very high levels of narcissism, reactivity, and reactivity and there
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: was constant chaos. I went right into a relationship with
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: the DA there was none because.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: He didn't get very sun can I get something right?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: He didn't get very upset. He didn't get very angry.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: It was all, Oh, it's no big deal, everything's fine,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: everything's good. But then I realized when hard moments came
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: up in that relationship, he had no other response. Either,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: You're going to be fine, don't worry about that. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: There was no nurturing. There was no And so although
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I looked and saw that there weren't the volatile traits,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: there was no empathy and warmth and nurturing and caring
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: and all of that.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Stuff, which either also didn't make you feel safe.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Nope. Yeah, And so the reason that let's talk about
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the anxious preoccupied person. Yeah, the anxious preoccupied person got
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: intermittent reinforcement of love, affection, and attunement in childhood. So
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: sometimes their parents would give them what they needed, and
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: other times their parents were distracted or absent and kind
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: of left them hanging. What does the DA do to people?
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  Speaker 2: They're not really mean, they're just neglectful, And when they
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: feel up to it, they might pour into you a
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: little bit, just enough to keep you feeling hopeful about
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the relationship, keeping you engaged in the relationship, only to withdraw, deactivate,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: turn away, take those needs away. So that is intermittent reinforcement.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So the AP is attracted to the DA because they
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: get to repeat the intermittent reinforcement that they got in childhood.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: So your subconscious is going to seek out what happened
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: to you in childhood and desire to get that happy ending.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: It's so funny because, like I think back to when
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I was with my ex and my sister and I
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: would you know, we would always be at odds because
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: she would tell me to do something and then I
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: would do the exact opposite. Yeah, and she would just
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: be like, can you just not hear me and do
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: what I say to do? Because she had already reached
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: her security right, Like she was already with the secure
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: partner and she saw it for what it was, and uh,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I would just turn around and do the exact opposite.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. My brother practically disowned me at one point.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well my sister did too. We didn't speak for.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Like three months when I went back to my ex
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: after we were divorced. Who does that? An insecure person
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: A very wounded individuals, that's trauma bonded. Oh my gosh,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: you have no idea how many people get divorced and
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: have what we call the death gas, which is like
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: they try to make it work after the divorce is final.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: My husband did it with his ex. I did it
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: with my ex.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Think about the people who actually marry their ex more
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: than once.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You know, my great aunt was married four times to
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: two different men. So she was married, got divorced, met
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and married her second husband, divorced him, and remarried her
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: first husband, divorced him, and then remarried her second an.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: No.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my great aunt Belda, God blessed.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: She was like Elizabeth Taylor. Elizabeth Taylor. I think she
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: did something very similar.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really know.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Taylor was married eight times.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I think at some point, when do you stop and
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: look at yourself and go, I'm not good at marriage.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I'm her common denominator and all these divorces. Maybe I
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: need to look at myself.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Arnold, I suppose I just didn't really have She
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: didn't care if she she lost or not. She just
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: was like, I love love, and you know, because I
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: think that that's sometimes the case. Two people kind of
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: viewed as well, I just love and I love to love,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean I had an old you know,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: a friend that had been married four times, and that's
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: what she would always say, Well, I just love.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Love, well, you love the idea of love? Or do
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you love healthy love?
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I think you love the idea, but you're not. You
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: don't have the capacity to sustain a truly healthy.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Relationship because she didn't choose good partners either.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: No, and our choice and partner is the biggest predictor
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of your happiness on this earth. There is so much
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: data to support that who we choose to marry has
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the biggest impacts on our well being over our lifespan.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Might because you don't really get especially if you have
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: children with them, don't ever get away from them. And
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I learned that lesson the hard way. So did I
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: have people that I'm close to, very very close to
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: have learned that lesson the hard way.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: My dad gave me this list of the twenty one
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: top things to be successful. This was years ago and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: it actually sits right next to my desk, and I
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: think it was like when when I really got into
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: like my career and working, and the number one thing
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: is choose the right partner. It will determine the rest
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: of these other twenty things. I mean, that was the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: number one.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Thing, And I think in our situations, and so many
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: people out there have the same situation where it's hard
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: to regret a relationship that was so abusive and so
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: painful when children came out of them and you love
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: your children so much, and you think, well, without that person,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have these people.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as dynamic and awesome as I am. Because I'm
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: always like, people are like, oh, you have such a
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: great personality. Why And I'm like, oh, it's just because
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: of all my trauma.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like my trauma has made me very adaptable. It's
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: made me very funny.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Funny, witty and all these things, you know. So I
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: can't regret it because of that too, and obviously because
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: of my wonderful child.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's a part that's hard to go to say, Man,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: if I just would have done the work in my
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: late teen's early twenties, that just would have done the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: work in my early twenties, My goodness, Because listen, I
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: try to save a marriage at all costs. It can
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: be saved, but there are some marriages that cannot be
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: saved unless there's a direct intervention from God. I'm not God,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: and I come across marriages sometimes where I'm like, this
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: is not the best thing for you guys to proceed.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: There's too much damage, there's too much insecurity, there's too
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: much lack of compatibility, and just super lack of compatibility
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: in general, a past attachment security. Right, we're talking about
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: general like you are highly religious and you are an atheist,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: right incompatibility right where there's their value systems are so
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: different that I'm like, you guys aren't gonna get together,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Like you're not going to get it together because you're
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: wanting him to come to Jesus and he doesn't want
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: to come to Jesus. Right, And you know, when you
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: do to Jesus and you have that relationship, you see
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: the world through an entirely different lens. And the Bible
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: does talk about being equally yoked and having somebody that
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: shares a similar belief system.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Morals are a big thing that I feel like at
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: a young age, you really don't think about no, you're
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: just thinking about attraction. You're just thinking about chemistry yep,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: and having fun and can you have fun together?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeap? And do you get along? And is it? It's
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: and again a big way to know if you're in
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: a toxic relationship. If it's just all major butterflies in
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: the beginning, it's all intense, it's excitement, it's addicting. That
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: is bad news bears. Yeah, okay, that is your number
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: one sign that this is about to turn toxic because
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and you know this, when you become secure and you
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: meet a secure partner, it feels so different, different, so different.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It feels like there are no but like you're not nervous.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: No, I still had some anxiety with Josh. But I think,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: like I've talked about before, it's because I hadn't fully
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: reached my attachment security. Like I was sort of on
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the cusp I was getting there. Josh pushed me into that, Yeah,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: by making me feel safe, right, But so I definitely
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: had some anxiety because I was just nervous that I
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was going to lose it. I was gonna Yeah. It
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: was so good and I liked him so much, and
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I saw how good of a person he was, and
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, I'm trying to do this for
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the first time in my life.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it had confusing for you.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: It was very confusing. I was like, Wow, I really
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: like this good guy. But Josh was hard to read
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: like I couldn't figure out at first if he was
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: this really good guy.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Because he was attaching in an appropriate man.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, he was taking it slow.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Just what secure people do they attach in an appropriate way?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And that was very foreign to me. So I used
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: to love bombing yeah, yes, yep exactly.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Or the guy that wouldn't ever give you enough yep yeah.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: And so he was just like the right mix.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: And I was like, he was giving you just the
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: right amount, Like what a normal amount? A secure amount?
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what is happening here? And I can't seem to
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: figure this guy out when in all honesty, he was
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: just showing up secure. Yeah, And it was that foreign
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: And that's what I tell people. I'm like, if you
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: have if you or your partner has mild insecurities, and
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I think you were probably at the state where you
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: had really worked on your healing journey, you had taken
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of time alone, you had poured into yourself.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I remember that time in your life, and so you
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: were getting there yea. And when you're almost there, having
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: a secure partner can sort of pull you the rest
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: of the way. And so that's what I tell people.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, if your partner has mild to sometimes even
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: moderate insecurities, just you showing up secure can make a
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: profound difference in the relationship. It's when we have people
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: that are more on the severe side of their insecurity
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't really matter what you do. They just
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: are going to have to do their own work to
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: be able to get to that cure place. And so
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I help people determine that.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's huge.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: How insecure is your partner?
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And speaking on you know, if going back to
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: like if you'd done all this and done all the
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: work in the twenties, in your twenties, here's the benefit.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I think that things like social media provide that we
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: didn't have in our twenties, right, Like social media wasn't
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: as vast like it was just.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I didn't have Facebook till I was in graduate ste Yeah.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I mean I remember like when my Space
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: came on the market, like I think I was in
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: college and then you know, so there's there's all this
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: knowledge available which makes the idea of a healing journey
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: more acceptable. There just wasn't all this you know, witness
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: value around that when we were in our twenties. Yes,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: all right, and so now it's more common to be like, Okay,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna I might be only i
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: might only be twenty two, but I'm gonna invest in
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: my in my healing.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Journey, right absolutely. And then I think there's a small downside,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: which is that we're inundated with so much invaliation and
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it's hard to know the words good information versus bad information.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: What's somebody's opinion that they're out there spatting based on
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: their own personal experience which gives them in statistics, we
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: would say an end of one, a population of one
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: versus what is all the data telling us plus clinical
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: experience of working with people. You know, if you're going
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: to choose a provider or somebody's philosophy, where does their
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: philosophy come from? Because we have a lot of what
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: are known as armchair psychologists, people that really don't have
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: a degree. They haven't studied this, they've just they've they've
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: youtubed a lot, they've just gosh, how.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: They're so predominant. In the coach world. Oh gosh, anybody goes, yeah,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: anybody can be a coach. And I will say that's
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm your best friend and I'm somewhat biased.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: But even if I wasn't I really really think and
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: I was in this field and I was doing this,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: and I was, you know, because I look at all
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: your competitors and.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you you do, because I don't like looking at
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: my competitor.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, Well here's what the conclusion. The conclusion
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I've come to. And again I can admit I have
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: some bias, sure, because I know you on a deep
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: level as well, and I know your heart and I
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: know your soul, and I know all these good things
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: about you. But you don't offer just generic advice. It's
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: backed by science, it's backed by all these like it's
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: backed by so much knowledge, and it's in a way
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: and I think this is something that really really sets
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: you apart in your business and as a coach, is
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: that you are a true teacher. So you're able to
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: take really complex information and make it available to everyone
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: where they say, oh right, like these light bulb bulbs
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: go off and they get it. And that's a gift.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is truly a gift. You're not just
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and not to call people out, but like I'm like
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Jay Shetty, like I mean, he has so much witness value,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and he has so many followers and he's such a
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: big like in terms of the coach world, Like he's big,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: and he just I mean a lot of it's just
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: very generic and not that you don't have these moments
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: where were like, oh, well, yeah, that was really profound
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: what he just said. But it's not really data driven
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: or scientifically driven. And again, not to downplay, I'm not
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: hating on Jay Shuddy at all. I think, you know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: he provides the world with good things, and I advocate
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: for that, but you really have a way to take knowledge,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: really concrete good knowledge and make it available to everyone.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And what I really I think want the world
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: to understand is that psychology is a rigorous scientific discipline.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: In fact, psychologists have the most rigorous scientific training compared
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: to the quote hard sciences, because again, we're studying things
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: that we can't see with our eyeballs, right, We're studying
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: people's thoughts, their emotions, their behaviors, and so we have
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: to have ways of measuring those things that we are
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: confident are valid and reliable measures.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's hard.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: There's a whole scientific discipline called psychometrics where we create
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: ways to measure psychological constructs, and we use statistics to
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: make sure that the items the questions on those assessments,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: or if it's an observation or if it's an interview
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: or whatever, we make sure that those items are measuring
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: what they're supposed to measure, and that they do so
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: reliably over time, I get so anger when people are like, well,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I took this attachment quiz online and it says I'm
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: an AP and they're clearly a DA right, And I'm like,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how that has no scientific value.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Those are scam artists. I'm sorry, but if you are
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: offering an online quiz and you have not done the
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: psychometric work on that quiz to make sure that it
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: is reliably and validly measuring what it is host to measure,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: you are scamming people. That's why I don't offer a quiz.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: People have like, can you make a quiz? Can you
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: make a quiz? And I'm like, well, it'll take me
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: two years. Yeah, I can make you one. I can
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: make a quiz, but I'm gonna have to ensure the
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: content validity by getting a panel of experts together to
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: look at the questions. I'm gonna have to conduct an
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: array of statistical analyzes. I'm gonna have to look at
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: past measures and see how my measure correlates with those
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: measures that have already been created. I'm going to have
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: to spend two years on developing this measure, and then
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I'm probably going to have to submit it for peer
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: review so another body of scientists can check my work
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: to make sure that I did it correctly and to
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: make sure that I'm not falsifying my result.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: There, right, that's.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: What we do in the scientific community, say right there.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: For anybody who's questioning her, you need to listen to the.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Top graduate psychometric for years.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I mean, she's You're not just throwing a
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: bunch of crap out there and seeing, you know who
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: who wants to latch onto it. Like you're not clickbait.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not clickbait now. And in some ways that
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: can hurt me because then it takes a while for
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: people to find me. Right, But I don't. I'm not
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: just going to give you some just generic advice. I'm
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: going to say, here are the deeper reasons behind what
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: is going on, and I don't. I've run into a
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: lot of coaches, and I've run into coaches who have
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: who have come to me for mentorship that are selling
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: snake oil, and I've had to be real honest and say,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I don't agree with what you're telling people. Yeah, that's
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: not that's manipulation. I don't agree with that, and kind
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of had to back away from some people.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you say snake oil, like people are like, well,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: let me read you what your horoscope and this is
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: what we're just. Yeah, all those messages that you get
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: that are like, let I want to do your palm reading,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: it's not her.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Okay. There are a few individuals that I could probably
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: link some of that too, because they're they're predictable. But yeah,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: there's on social media there's always people like let me
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: show you how to get your X back in five
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: minutes with the spell Like those don't work people, okay,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: like that's witchcraft and no. Yeah, but the advice I
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: give people in the interventions that I give people are
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: evidence based, meaning that they've been studied, they've been put
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: through the test, they've been submitted for peer review, and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: they've been published. And you know, what does it mean
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: to study science? So I say I've studied the science. Well,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I was in a lot of teaching university. So I
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: was at a university that was heavily focused on teaching
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: and not pushing their faculty to do research. Okay, so
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: there's a difference. We have these big R one research universities,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: which is where I was trained and where I graduated from.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I graduated with my doctorate from the University of Kentucky,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: which is an R one research one institution. So I
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: did a ton of actual doing research in graduate school, right,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: and then I was recruited by smaller teaching colleges because
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: teaching was my passion. I liked teaching more than I
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: liked actually conducting research. But in order to teach, you
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: have to read the science. And then what did I teach.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: My courses were research methods, statistics, psychometrics, dissertation research. So
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I was teaching people how to conduct research, which makes
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: me very good at looking at research and going is
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: this good research or bad research? Is this good science
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: or bad science? Is this from a prestigious journal or
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: is this from a crap journal that's open access that
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: anybody could publish. Right, So I'm able to look through
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: the research and discern what are the quality scientific studies
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: and what are the crap studies. So that helps me
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: sort of be able to judge the science right now,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: there's other people that are in research one universities and
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: they are actively collecting data, analyzing data, and publishing data.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And I have done that, and I did a little
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: bit of it, but I was at a teaching university,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: and so I am using in my examples in the classroom.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I'm using relationship science, right, but we're looking at the
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: validity of the study. We're not necessarily focusing on the content.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: But it was it's more of like I like to
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: learn those things because I'm so interested in relationships. I'm
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: reading the you know, I'm reading the journals right, and
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at the data. And when I went on
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: my discovery to heal my attachment, that's where I went.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I went to the science, like, Okay, what does the
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: science have to say because I was I first started
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: out listening to these armchair people like I know how
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: to heal from narcissistic abuse because I was in a
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: narcissistic relationship. It's like, okay, well, great that journaling worked
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: for you, but journaling didn't work for me. It didn't.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: It didn't work for me. There are so many people
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: that talk about shadow work, and now that I'm following
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: you know, Dana Dozzie or Dozy, I still would love
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: to talk to her in person and hope she can
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: be a guest on our podcast. She's a big fan
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: of shadow work. I didn't find a lot about.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I want you to explain shadow work because not everybody
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: understands really what it is.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So shadow work is this idea that we all have
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: a shadow. We all have traits within us that we
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: have repressed, meaning that we learned at an early age
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: that those traits were bad and that we shouldn't exhibit
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: those traits. Right. So like the DA learned that showing
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: emotion is bad or weak, Right, that's what is deeply
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: ingrained into them. So if a dismissive of when it
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: was doing shadow work, they would have to acknowledge that
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: there's this part of them that carries shame around expressing emotion.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: And if we have that knowledge, then we can kind
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: of be able to heal it. But I don't think
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: that's the only way of getting there. I think knowledge
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: only takes you so far. It's I had a ton
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: of knowledge and zero capacity to change, And so why
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: was that. It's because knowledge in and of itself doesn't
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: and healing knowledge may lead you to the tools, and
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: the tools to build your capacity to be a different
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: person lead to the healing. And that's what I give people,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: give people the tools, whereas a lot of coaches are
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: still just stuck in giving knowledge. No, it's like, tell
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: me what to do, Like I know, yes, okay, I
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: know this thing about myself, right, and.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: How do I change that? That's a big thing that
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: comes out of therapy is the oh okay, I've processed.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I understand all these things about myself now. But how
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: but now, how how do I get? What?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Is the how? And that is what I provide people
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: because that was the biggest missing piece that was so
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: frustrating for me. I was constantly looking for how. Okay,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: so I pick these partners because of you know what
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I learned in childhood about love? Great? Now, how do
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I change my instinct? How do I not not be
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: attracting those people? How do I stop my visceral attraction
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: to narcissistic individuals? Right? And it was a hard work,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: and so I mean their shadow work can be a
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: little bit beneficial. Like let me give you an example
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I have this couple that I'm coaching right now, And
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: when I first met them, I thought they are they
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: are they are divorce land, like this is. I don't
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: see any shape or way that this could work. And
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: then I've started meeting with them individually, and when I
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: see them outside of their couplehood, I see such a
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: different side to them. They're they're triggering each other so
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: bad that they're exhibiting traits that are so far down
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: the spectrum from then who they who they really are? Right,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: they're launching into it. They're so triggered and so traumatized
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: by their partner that they're behaving in ways that are
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: really probably outside the norm of who they really are
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: and so and and those are desperate ways to try
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: to seek safety. So let me give you an example.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: So the husband, he's a louder guy, he's a boisterous guy.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: You can tell he's just like, well, I'm just passionate.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And I hear that from a lot of men that
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: tend to get reactive in conflicts, the fa guys.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: That's always my excuse too, I'm just passionate.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, it's like you're passionate, Okay, But what's really
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: happening is that you have learned somewhere down the line
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: that seeking dominance gets you safety. That being the louder one,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: being the more dominant one, being the more aggressive one,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: lends you some safety. So your nervous system is attempting
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: to seek safety through being superior, because when you think about,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: the superior one in any fight is going to be
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: the winner.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the perfect example of this that just happened
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: to me the other day with Josh, and I think
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: it has a lot to do with my birth order.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Two is that you know, so I'm the maybe A four.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: So I spent my entire life right trying.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: To defend yourself, defend.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Myself and really like you know, try to like see
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: where I fit or And there was always heavy competition.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: We were all athletes, like we were all I mean said,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: we're all still in competition with each other.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Yea, and they're very close.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah we're Yeah, we're very close. But I still
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: feel like my sisters are in competition with me. Anyway,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: if Rachel listens to this, she's gonna get mad. But sorry, sorry, right,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: but so anyway, the other day, I'm I bought nesting
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: boxes for my chickens right, because they're about to lay eggs.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm putting you, guys's chickens, I'm putting, yes, they will,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: they will, But I'm putting these nesting boxes together. And
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: it's very simple, right, it's not even hard, and but
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: it does require, you know, a drill and some screws,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: and you know, I'm very used to doing things on
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: my own and being like hyper independent, and so Josh,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you knows in there and he's trying to help, you know,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: because I'm just going to town on that drill and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: like stripping the screws right because they're not going in.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: He's like, honey, honey, honey, honey. And I immediately am offended,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: like had like you know, and I get all like
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: in my I'm like, then, what am I doing wrong?
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I'm not doing
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: anything wrong. Because this was my whole life, right. It
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: was like if somebody that had superior that was superior
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to me, like a sibling, like an older sibling, would
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: try to come in and try to tell me to
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: do something right, I felt this need to have to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: like exert this dominance right to show that no, I
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: was capable, No, I can do this. No, I'm not
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: just this little baby that everybody has to take care of.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Even Josh was like, calm down, you know, because I did.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I learned at a very young age that if I
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: exerted that dominance, if I was the louder one, if
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I was the more like successful one, if I was
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: better at this, you know, basketball than my other sister,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: then I would be loved more.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you would be loved more. You would be
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: accepted be Yeah, which, ultimately, love an acceptance is safety.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: If evolutionarily we are meant to live among one another,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: we are meant to be in relationship with another, and
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: so love and acceptance for human beings equals safety belonging.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Think about evolutionarily, why that's beneficial. If you are alone,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: you know, you're a loner, You're not going to have
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: access to as much resource, right, as many resources as
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: someone who's in the group where multiple people are contributing.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, if we are rejected, we're not safe.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: That's bad.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Right. And so this this client, when I told him that,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: he broke down into your he was like, you're right.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: He's like, you're so right, that that is what I've
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: been doing my whole life, I've been trying to be
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: the louder one so that I'm heard because if I'm heard,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: because he's fa the deepest need is to be heard,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: seene and understood. He's like, is if I'm heard, then
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I'm safe. If I'm understood, then I'm safe, and then
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I could be accepted. And that happens through reactivity and
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: aggression and the loud voice and the demands.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Are so beautiful when you get to see that in
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: the client, really is because that's when their perspective shifts
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: and that's when change can really happen.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And so what I talked to him about
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: because they were very gung ho about individual coaching and
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I was like, cool, you know my price if you
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: want to pay it. That's why absolutely be glad to
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: work with you. But I get the opportunity at the
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: individual level to really look at all the ways that
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: his nervous system is trying to feel safe and all
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: of the negative adaptive behaviors that have come out of
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: the desire to seek safety on that real visceral nervous
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: system level, and why those things aren't working for him.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: So that's where shadow where can come in a little bit.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: But again, you're just getting knowledge. He may know. Now, Okay,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I yell when I feel threatened because I use dominance
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: as a way to try to seek superiority, therefore to
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: be safe. So how do I stop yelling? Because I'm
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: doing it before I even recognize it, right, That's where
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I come in. That's where I'm like, Okay, Well, we
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: actually have to dive into the tools to make your
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: nervous system more resilient so that you are able to
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: stay in a regulated state where then your conscious brain
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: comes online and you have the capacity to pause, to stop,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: to think, to breathe, to calm down. Even more, you
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: don't have that yet, You're launching directly into a trauma
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: response after your trigger like that. So what I help
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: people do is deconstruct the trigger cycle, right and build
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: a resilient nervous system that can go Because when our
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: nervous system is in what we call a ventral vagel state,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: which is a resting, rest and digest parasympathetic state, our
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: prefrontal cortex comes online. We increase our capacity for openness
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: so we can have tolerance for other people's opinions and perspectives.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: We become curious. Instead of making assumptions, we become mindful
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: of our own behavior, so that you have to be
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: in that state to be able to execute secure behavior. Right,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Instead of going into a fight response, you're able to
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: maintain regulation and say, deep breath, here, this is a
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: difficult moment. How do I want to respond to my
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: partner here? Let me be curious, let me be non critical,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Let me try to approach them this way instead of
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: being like, what the hell's your problem? Right? Right, we
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: launch into that fight response so quickly.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, as hard as it is
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: for the FA, it's even more difficult for the DA
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: to right really nice to recognize what it is that
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: they're doing, you know, because I mean I can remember
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: in my you know, my coaching experience, you know, the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: DA would kind of look at you like you had
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: three hits and you were like, oh no, this so
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: you know, this is a nervous system reaction, This is
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: a trauma response. And they're like, what, I feel fine?
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Right? I actually so. But they're not fine because they're
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: with this horribly anxious partner. They're getting criticized all the
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: time that they're not giving enough. They are miserable, inside
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: of their relationship. They've become a ghost inside of their
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: own relationship. They feel like I've just fallen out of
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: love yet again one more time. Can never find somebody
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: compatible with me, excuse me?
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Or they just lose all hope that this is just
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: how I am and I'm never going to change.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I am who I am, love it or leave it.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And that's such a sad, sad space.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, because I mean, you're meant to grow your entire life.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: You are. You never stop going, you never stop learning.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: That's why you know, I don't want to you.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I feel like I don't and I think you're It
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: takes an enormous amount of arrogance to act like you
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: know everything. Yeah, I don't know everything in the relationship space.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know everything. I haven't read every study on relationships.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: That would be humanly impossible. There's millions. Yeah, you know,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I've I have my own niche attachment theory and researchers
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: often get into a niche because you can't be an
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: expert in everything.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and you know what, niches work really really
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: well on social media?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: They do.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and and like you said at
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: the very beginning of this podcast is it's the behavior
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: is so predictable, and so when behavior that you talk
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: about is predictable, humans are so predictable, people really latch
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: onto it because they're like, oh my gosh, this is like,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: this is how I feel. Finally something like there's this
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: explanation to what I've been doing. And so when they
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: can relate, then they're hooked, right, and then they keep
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: watching and the things that you say are they're like, again,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: all those light bulbs start going off, all the perspective shifts,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: and then they're like, wait, maybe I need to do
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: some work.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I hear all the time you explained my relationship in
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: one video when I've been researching what's been wrong for
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: five years?
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Or somebody will say, wow, I've been in
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: therapy for twenty years and I just basically got more
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: out of the one video that you just posted than
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: I have in twenty years of therapy. Right, Yeah, that's profound.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm not the only one out there doing
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: this work, but I mean, attachment is solid science. That's
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: why I stick with it because I'm like, well, I
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: like evidence based stuff. I like to go with the data.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I'm a data driven person. Because I was trained as
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: a researcher, and that's what makes me a little bit different.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: So clinical psychologists, yes, they have to go through if
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: they're coming out of an R one university, they go
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: through rigorous research training too, but not like we do.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Not like the experimental psychologists. Researches everything to us. Data
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: is everything to us, and there's an element of real
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: life experience. And so my my real life experience of
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: working with people has also taught me a lot. Yeah,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: but what I see really does line up with the science.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percond.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Where did that data come from the population?
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, You're a triple threat really because you have
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: your own personal experience, you have the research experience, and
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: you have the teaching experience. She's the best.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: So listen if you guys want to check out doctor
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Hensley's services. You heard it here from me, someone who's
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: not biased at all. It's just my best friend that
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: she is the best of the best. But I mean it,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I really mean it. Just go check her out on
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: all her social media platforms, watch a few of her videos.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I mean more specifically, come and listen to a couple
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: of these podcast episodes like share leave us a review,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: and just keep listening because we have so much more
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: to come and we are so so excited to be here.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: So until next time, peace, love, and perspective mm hmm