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Throwback Thursday: The Mexika Calendar with Ruben Ochoa · Tales From Aztlantis

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: You must excuse me.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've grown quite wear at this hasn't been easy, I know.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you've learned a lesson.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: A lesson in honesty.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Honesty to yourself and honesty to others.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: That lesson will stand you in good stead all your life.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've all learned a good lesson.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've always heard that honesty is the best policy.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm catching on to why that's so, no, why that's so, no, why that's so.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Greetings, dear listeners, and welcome to yet another episode of Tales from Oclantis.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: I am your host, Curly Tlapoyawa, and I'm riding solo tonight.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Ariano Tlacateca is unable to join us, but I hope he's uh out there with us in spirit and doing well on this fine evening.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm joined tonight by a special guest, a good friend of mine, Ruben Ochoa.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the book, the calendar, a Mexican Count of Days, the Mexica calendar for the year 10 Rabbit 2022 to 2023.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: So for the upcoming uh Mexica calendar year uh is now available for purchase and it's a beautiful looking calendar, and Ruben is basically the individual whose research I used while putting this calendar together.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, Ruben, what's going on, man?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty good, man.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a busy day, but uh I'm glad we're finally getting around, you know, to to being able to record and uh, you know, talk calendar.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you drove up from San Diego today.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: How was the drive?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, dude.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's going on these days, but you know, there's just always traffic, man.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um could be worse, but you know, it is what it is, man.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Too many people when I was there last was on um I was there with Magnus and uh my wife, and we drove up from San Diego to LA and traffic wasn't too bad, but I think we came up it must have been the time of day that worked out well for us because it I mean, you know, it's LA traffic, but it wasn't too bad.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, the you know, most of the traffic's actually down there when you're coming back up, uh, as far as my I'm concerned.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, once I hit LA, it was all good.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're gonna be talking about the calendar system, the Mexican calendar system.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I basically wanted to um, if you could, I wanted to ask you, you know, when you when you're talking to people about the calendar and you're explaining things to them, um, I don't know if you go into what what got you interested in the calendar system, but if if you would care to, could you fill us in on that?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like let us know a little bit about what prompted you to uh start investigating how the calendar functions.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, it the answer to that is like where is the beginning of that really, even for me?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because since I was, gosh, 10, 11, 12, I all of a sudden became interested in indigenous history.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: You start buying all the art books that are available to you, and you get to high school, that's not really the focus of anything, but I'm still doing that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you read about indigenous history of Mexico, inevitably I'm here eating my words.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, inevitably, you know, you're gonna obviously talk about the calendar, and I'm really into math, it's just something I was drawn to, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I start looking at the calendar, I come across who knows how many decades ago at this point.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I'm ancient, but you know, time does fly.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, back in the days, one of the first websites that was out there was AztecCalendar.com, right?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, gosh, I was probably uh just shy of 18 when I started doing Dansa Azteca, so even more so, right?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was already into the calendar and all that before then.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Start looking at uh at that, start meeting people in Dansa, and you know, the other inevitability is that people want to know what their symbol is.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: That was the resource we had back in the day, man, AztecCalendar.com.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do not go to it, people.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was the resource.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I know how many people have gone to that website and uh and used it to find out their tonale and and got it tattooed on their bodies, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so so it's it's one of those, right?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about like I'm 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and people are coming to me asking me what their tonali is.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was a resource.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I I feel bad, man.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's some kids out there named because I helped them along with referencing asset calendar.com, man.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I don't know, man.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I must have been around 22 when I just said I realized something's off, something's wrong.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have enough information to truly know what the answer here is as to the correct correlation, and I just abandoned it.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, again, the start with my interest in the calendar, yeah, it it probably does go back.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I'm getting old.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm age myself and say 30 years ago.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm dominating the conversation.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, uh, a very, very good friend of mine who I knew when we were both working uh our bachelor's degrees at different universities, moved away to work on a graduate degree, comes back into town, and um is going by a Nahuatl name.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I asked him, hey, you know, well, what's the deal with that?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's up with that?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh at that point in time he mentioned a certain individual.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Shall we name this individual?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um that probably proposes that proposes a particular correlation, and let's just say I knew the correlation put forth by Alfonso Caso, Mexican scholar from 50 years ago or more.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: He passed away not too long ago, and obviously, all the correlations that are built on him, other ones that are proposed, I read them all, and there were certain issues with those as far as when the year starts, because it's all over the place, what day starts the year, things of that sort.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: But generally speaking, the way the mechanism of it worked, like we've known it, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: We just didn't know exactly which day might start it and when it might start.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: But when this good friend of mine came back into town, I realized that there was yet another system being put forth that I guess was being put forth decades before I became aware of it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: But uh when I became aware of that other way of counting, it it literally made no sense to me, but it's what prompted me to go back to looking at the calendar, and so essentially so it was good for something, it it was uh definitely good for something because it basically prompted me to go back and look.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be vulnerable and say, well, that doesn't make any fucking sense.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: I immediately thought that, and uh, but yes, it 100% prompted me to go back and look at things, and the difference is that aside from one is older, one suddenly has far more resources that we didn't have 20 years ago.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is it's really only in the last eight to ten years that we can Google anything.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: We can instantly have every or almost every say in PDF format in front of us.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because before that, I mean, good luck, right?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Getting a decent facsimile or getting a copy of it, or I remember just research on my own, only being able to find, you know, fragments, certain pages would be reproduced in art books or whatever.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: But as far as getting the actual CODUS itself, you know, you're basically out of luck.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: But now with the internet, it's like all all at your fingertips, literally.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, in truth, we have advantages that some of these scholars, because of that alone, didn't have even 30 years ago.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where we literally have it all at our fingertips.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that's important then is because when this friend came back, I realized there was this other nonsensical way of thinking or accounting.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I just said I have to start from scratch.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: But from scratch, for me, it was literally looking at strictly indigenous pictographic sources from before the conquest, from before European arrival, from however you want to term it, pre-Cotemo, pre-Columbian.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: The point is, let's just say prior to 1519, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started there.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the, you know, again, Frank came back, prompted me to look at a few things, assemble the PDFs and every other police that you can, and you just start looking for patterns, and you start looking at the math, and then you bring in the RTO astronomy, and then you bring in the post-conquest sources, and it all just starts to build on it.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So to answer your initial question, what prompted me to look at it?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm brown.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I saw encyclopedia back in the day that we only had physical books.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I started researching it, I left it alone, and then I came back to it when I thought I probably stumbled upon something.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so, you know, the first person I actually shared my research with was that friend that kind of reignited that curiosity and that spark that I had abandoned thinking we would never know an answer, presented the information to him, and it was uh holy crap, you're on to this, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Type of moment.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that that's kind of what got the ball rolling, but um, yeah, man.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I had been obsessed for a long time with with the calendar system, but I was doing my own research, and then I was filling in the gaps because of this lack of resources, right?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was filling in all the gaps that I didn't really know about with this other count that you know that you're referring to, and I was just thinking, like, well, this guy must know what he's talking about, everybody's using this count, so I'll rely on that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: But even then I had questions like, well, that doesn't exactly make sense.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And uh but I just kind of went with it, right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't into rocking the boat back then.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I remember we were on uh a Facebook group and people were debating back and forth about the different calendar systems and uh you hit me up or I hit you up.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I forget who contacted who first, but you just gave me your phone number and you're like, well, here, just call me.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's easier to talk about this stuff on the phone.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it was like um I don't know.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I want to I don't want to say it was like a revelation, but realize being able to have those gaps filled in in a way that made sense was the what I experienced.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: And man, that uh you gotta remember I was calling you all the time because I, you know, I have a job, so I could afford codices now, and I could afford all this stuff, and so I've I'm buying all this material and doing all this research, and I'm like, well, what about this?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: How does this work?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um man, it was it was really cool.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I got to the point where I was even dreaming in codices.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: So um I remember that conversation.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was like part of it had embedded itself into my psyche.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So for people out there who don't know anything about the calendar, like let's say you're talking to somebody who knows nothing about it, hasn't been exposed to any of the counts, right?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how would you start them out?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how would you explain to them, like, well, the this is the basic start from this point and then go from there?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So let me say I sat with one person at a time to explain this, and I've given a you know, PowerPoint presentation to 100 people to explain this, and where I start in part depends on the size of the audience, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: But also who the audience is, obviously.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's always a question of like, I don't want to tell you what your tonali is and how we figured out the tonali.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to understand how we know what we know.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to just say your tonali is this and this is how you calculate it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want us you to understand why it all came into being to begin with.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but but that can be problematic if I'm sitting with one person versus a crowd.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm sitting with one person and explaining it to it, because I say, dude, just come to the house and I'll explain it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, ask your questions, stop me at any point, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm doing a PowerPoint, then that's a little bit different.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, like, where do I start?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let me backtrack and say when I'm explaining it to people who are unaware that there's different proposed correlations, and I just present the information, they essentially absorb it as a well, yeah, duh.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like that makes all the sense in the world.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Why would it be anything other?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and why would there even be any other correlation?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it really does make sense.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: But when you encounter other people who are familiar with other ways, I welcome all the questions in the world because I'm still gonna present the exact same information.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: The problem then becomes how should I say?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: In the moment, my experience with those people who are aware of other correlations and follow them falls into, I guess, three categories.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say the outright acceptance, and oh crap, I was wrong, and I fully understand why I was wrong now.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: The this makes a lot of sense, and I think you're onto something, but then they go back and talk to some elder, they do all these mental gymnastics to explain away why what I'm saying is different.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's those who are literally, you know, hear no evil, see no evil, just covering up their ears and are like, you know, no, no, no, no, no.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm there there's too much of a dissonance, and they're just not they're just not okay with it, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, ultimately it is what it is, right?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I present information, where do I start?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: To again go back to your actual question because I run off on tangents.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is well, okay, do we want to approach this from an archaeoastronomy and first addressing when the day starts and how it is that we come to know that the year is 365 days long, or we do do we just go get right into okay, we have 20 symbols, we have 13 numbers, this is the way those work, and this is the way they interact with the 365-day Shivi or year, and why it is that the interaction of those two yield a 52-year cycle, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, part of where I start and where I end also just entirely depends on how much time we have.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because in truth, a whole lot could get covered in two hours, and the vast majority of that's gonna go over their head, or it's like, you know what, come over for two hours at a time for a week, and then all the questions you still have, then we'll address them, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it it really is all over the place as far as where I can approach it from or how much we really want to explain things, and um certain things are gonna yield more questions as they should, uh, such as you know what I call the second intercalary adjustment, things of that sort, and instead of just the leap year, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first adjustment, but um virtually never get into that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally, you and two, three other people have gotten into that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say into that, I mean just the conversation of it, because not that any of it is complicated insane math, it's all the easiest math in the world, but people become overwhelmed because they think they can't understand it when it's all really just the simplest thing.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, did I answer your question?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: So when when we're talking about the calendar system, so this is a system that, as far as we know, right, uh is inherited from the olmics.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, where I'll just pause you there.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously we go by the terms that people have given them, and then some people throw out the term epiomic.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh right now I'm gonna say yes omic because I don't remember if it was if there was any sign of you know two masa, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: The coefficient with what I call the coefficient, the number just for the ease of explanation and the symbol.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh right now I don't remember how far back the first inscription we believe goes.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but certainly we'll just put it at you know 2000 BCE, right?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Before current era.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we'll call it an easy 4,000 years ago, at a at a minimum, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean it's all one mechanism that's inherited, but I'm sorry for cutting you off piece of deep.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, no, for sure.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, while we're on this point, um, I would like to point out that, you know, in archaeology, we don't really refer to the old Mecca as like the mother civilization anymore.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of people get hung up on that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, well, the old Mecca are the they're called the mother civilization.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now we have all this evidence that shows there were multiple civilizations that were flowering around the same time, and it's more of a sister civilization to all of these other groups that were growing.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: But you had these people at this time develop this this calendar system, and it's inherited from them, and you have the Maya using a similar system, and then the Mexica, and all these groups throughout Mesoamerica.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: But the basic concept, right, is 20 days or 20 day signs, then 19 months, 18 months of 20 days, and then the 19th month has five, and it's called a nemanthemi.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then these days are numbered, what you call the coefficients, and I like the use of that word because it helps me understand it in a in a really simple way to graph um of one through thirteen, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you have one, sibakli, two, three, gali, you know, four, quatspali, and five, go out, and then you just go one to thirteen, and then it starts over at one again as as you cycle through those twenty uh twenty date signs.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And what uh you said that really helped me uh was you just start at setsipakli, right, and you just count forward without stopping.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: That was like the easiest way to look at it.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when when you're talking to somebody, it for me anyway, when I present to people or I talk to people about the calendar system, I usually just start off with that by telling them we're gonna start at Setsipakli and we're just gonna count forward and we're gonna see what happens.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially, what I like to do is is that, right?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I tell people, look, humor me and pretend I'm not some crazy dude.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Humor me.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I give people homework, and of course, no one does it, but I say, just humor me.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just pretend.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: First step, how many days in a year?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: This has nothing to do with the symbols or anything of the sort.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, I saw the sun come up over that tree or over that peak, some natural marker, but you have to always view it from the same location.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can't view it from one spot one day and from another another day, right?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I see it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I see it come up over that peak, and I count how many days it takes to get back to that same peak.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, it's gonna travel north along the horizon and then south along the horizon, and then back to its location.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: 365, bam, okay, 365.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get all mad, people who are listening about it's a quarter day.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're just watching it one year, 365.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Everything else kind of falls into place once you've done this multiple times, and you realize why it's oh, we have to add a date this year because they didn't get back to its location like it should have.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a hair off, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And again, oh, by the way, the day starts when the sun comes up because that's where we're looking at it.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's horizon astronomy, it's where is it coming up on the horizon, right?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's also referenced in the Florentine.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they they they make a very specific reference to how the priests in the temple of Quetzalcoat marked the the birth of the day at sunrise.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, ask a farmer.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for them it starts right before sunrise.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when the day starts.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: But but essentially is that, right?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't always have to start with the explanation of how do we know it's to be 65, but that's how we know, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then why do we divide by 20?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because we have 20 digits, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what we say is the indigenous regisimal system of Mesoamerica.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you divide 365 by 20, you're gonna get 18 plus 5.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how we have the month, plain and simple, simple eat week.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, you know, a count of 20, you know, 20 days, um, multiple translations for eat weed, but that being one of them, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so that is the she weed, that you know, just 365 months of 20 days, gives you 18 plus five, so it's 19 months.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now that doesn't have to do with uh, you know, when I tell people, okay, we're gonna start this, we're gonna explain this, pretend today is day one of the beginning of time.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not worried about well, when what do you mean when?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Today's day one.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but is it in January, February, March?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't exist for us.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's irrelevant.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That does not exist right now.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: We are literally pretend it's primordial times, it's just the Scalipokan is wrapped in the water, calling off Tsipakli, right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's day one of the dawn.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what's the first day?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first off, I tell him, label it all.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead, do it with me.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's day one of year one.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Day one of year one.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: We have these 20 symbols that we have now inherited because we're not coming up with our own 20 symbols.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just say we have 20 symbols, and the first symbol is C Pakli.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's because of the idea.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I like to connect it in my mind to again that primordial time of the creation of the world of one of the many stories of you know.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a primary, you know, somehow again, C backonal, it starts with C Pakley, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the first couple or whatnot.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Depending on the story you go by, right?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, if we just say, okay, so I'm gonna label C Pakis the first day, okay?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've inherited the system of coefficients of one through thirteen.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: We know because we have multiple tonal mats where it's obvious, okay.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: The first one is now.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if people humor me, start with me here and say, I'm gonna label day one, year one, one sea pocket.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, day two, year one is gonna be heka.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell them to do this from day one through three sixty-five.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we always tell people time is cyclical and it's non-stop and everything else.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, correct.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: We have 20 symbols, so literally label day one through 365 the 20 symbols non-stop, and you're gonna put the coefficient one through 13.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when we call the symbols hipakli through shochi, the next one's hipakli.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do that one through three sixty-five.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: When we put the coefficient one through thirteen, the next one's one.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Do that all the way through three sixty-five.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And say, do it, it's a lot of writing, people don't want to do it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when you get to day one of year two, again, time is cyclical non-stop, nothing yields, right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, day two, I'm sorry, day one of year two is gonna be when you've actually written them all out to me, and then you do that again for 365, non-stop.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: The 20 symbols, the 13 numbers, except now you started with Mikisli.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: So whereas in year one, Mikisli was the sixth day, and the 26th day, and the 46th day, and the 66th day, in year two, Mikisli is the day one, Tipaki's now is day 16.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because everything shifts by because it's if it's 20 days.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if it's if it's 20 days and you've got five days on the 19th month, then the next year is gonna start, the start day is gonna be shift by by five days.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so for those who are listening, literally write it all out, and you're gonna work all the way through year two, and when you get to year three, you're gonna see three bosomale will be the first day of year three, and you do that whole year, then the next year will be the first day of year four, it'll be four wasli.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So because there's three sixty-five days and 20 symbols, by the time you start the fifth year, it'll be back to sipli, but it's not gonna be one sipakli.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be five sipakli.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because the coefficient of the first day always matches the coefficient of the year.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because we in our theoretical exercise that I ask people to humor me with, if I said year one starts with day one and it happens to be one sipakli, then that's exactly it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Coefficient of the year matches coefficient of the first day of the year, and you can do this for all the requisite years, and I'm not saying 52 years yet, I'm just saying requisite years, and you will find that the first day of the year, yes, it'll be sipakli every four years, but it won't be one sipli.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it'll be mikisli every year, every four years, but it won't be the same coefficient.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so while we started our theoretical, you know, beginning of time with one sipakli, the nature of having 365 days, 20 symbols, and 13 numbers that are attached as coefficients to the symbol yields the 52-year calendar.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Again, being that the first day of the year won't be one sipakli specifically until we get to the first day of the year 53, right?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because we completed 52 years, and therefore the first day of the year 53 will once again get back to one sip.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I went back and looked at all the calendar stuff after my friend came back from uh grad school, that wasn't my first exercise to try to figure out you know what the correct correlation would be.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually just we're given the dates because the correlation is not just hey, how does our calendar work?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: But this proves or shows the theoretical how our calendar works, right?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: But and I and I'm gonna jump around a little here, but the first thing I did was we're given November 8th, 1519 as being the day that European Spaniards enter Ten Rositland, and we're told what the native date is.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not so much date, but the native Tonali, and we're told it's a dehecat.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're given you know the fall fall of Tenositland, uh when when you know everybody laid down their arms and essentially, you know, stopped the fighting.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: As in the indigenous system, we're just given the tonali as sequat, and we're told that was August 13th, 1521.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really what I started with was just counting continuously from those two.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Then I did my theoretical exercise, and then I looked at the codies, and only the pictographic, you know, pre-1500s for all we know, because we don't know when the Borgia group was written, and so when we say the Borgia group, uh the Laoud or Gervidi Meyer, uh I forget, I think the cospi falls under that category.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I could be wrong.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's some debate as to whether or not that was done after the European arrival.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I looked at those, and I looked at those looking for because by and large, they have nothing to do with what we're talking about here, right?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're almanacs for if you want to use the term divination or whatever, right?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get hung up on that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: But what I mean by they don't really have to do a whole lot with what we're talking about, it's you can look through all of them and not find but very select instances of the use of what you know some people call the AO sign or the year symbol, the glyph for the year.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have Tonalama Raster, Tonalama Raster, Tonalama that we don't know what they're for.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like we know one of them in the Goria is the marriage almanac, or you have a good match with your pareja, when's a good day to get married, stuff like that, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: But by and large, like we can guess, and I don't worry too much about that, but I surveyed it to see which of these coduses show any sign of the glyph for the year symbol.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And when you spot that, lo and behold, right?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's always in reference to sipli, mikisli, osamali, and koskakwapi.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Time and time again, like you're not gonna find really anything other than that, and so when we engage in our humor me, let's do this theoretical beginning of time, set the literally set time in motion with Sesipakli, and we see that the math tells us the year starts with Sipakli Mikislios Somali Costa Pauli.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: When the year is one, it starts, you know, with a one for the coefficient for the tonali.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: We literally see that in the Borgia, in the Laoud, in the Fergerity Mayor.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember when you were showing me all that, I was I was like, oh snap.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: How did I miss that?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Everything matches up.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: We should also point out that there are four year bearers, right?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why we keep going back to these four days that start off the year.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Each of the four year bearers is going to start off with one of these four days.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, you have a year.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: If it's a year aka, it starts with it's a year kali, it starts with otomatli.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's a yerkotkli, it starts with kotka kwotli.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just kind of this natural pattern that just happens, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the way it is.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and and so people need to understand, it's not that I decided to say when it's akat, it'll start with you back.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's that it is literally shown in the Borgia, in the frigidity mayor, at a minimum, that association.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not something I'm like, well, which one do I want to assign to which?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally in the Borgia we see it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: We see it in the I forget what plate number it is where you have the tlaloque, and it's literally assigning like the first year of the Tlalpili, the 13-year groupings, and it's telling us when the year is one aca 27 that's 47.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds about right.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I think you're I think you're correct.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have the codices in front of me.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was just being lazy about looking through them.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Apologize, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the point being, of course, that again that that's actually assigned in the codices, right?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: That directionality, too, because it's not just this idea of hipakli, uh years aka starts with hipakli, but rather the directionality of it is also assigned in the Borgia and it's also assigned in the First Gerbini mayor.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is the fact that years aka are associated with the east, like that's in the codices, right?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the fact that years um tech pat are associated with the north, that's in the codices.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so aka tekpat, kali with the west, and then koshi with the south.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not an arbitrary decision.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's not a decision at all on my part, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just looking at the patterns and realizing um how they fall.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, it was plate 27 from the Borgia for those who want to go and look it up, uh, where you have the fourth Lalox, and you very clearly see uh the year bearer, the or rather the symbol, the glyph representing the year with its catal feathers, um, and the what we call the AO sign, uh, on that plate where it says, you know, one akat, but it's not just one akat, it's the year glyph.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's year one akat, one sipakli, year one tekpat, one mikisni, and so on.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's there.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And in the Fergevity Mayor, you know, the the main page that people know, what some people call the Maltese cross, right?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we see that directionality where you see that the top of the page in virtually all um Mesoamerican, at least, you know, Mexico uh systems, maps, what have you, almost always, right?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: The top of the page, if it's any kind of mappish layout, is east, right?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not north like we have in in you know what we're used to, right?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that top of the Fajority mayor, you see the top off first off at the top, right?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: You see the tokali, you see the pyramid and the sun literally coming up right above it, and then to the left of that, within the circular, I'll say cartouche, right?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: You have the aca.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the east.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so right there we again have acka is the east, and at the base of that section, we see that the whole, every part of it going all the way around is the 260th wali, but they point out the first and last day of each month as you look at the directions, and again it shows if you're looking at the first day of each month, the first day for years that's are associated with east, sipli, the first day for years associated with the north, mikisli.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you see that again sipati mikisli osab mali koska kwali pattern.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why we know which starting symbol, sipakli, to assign to which year, Aka.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's literally in you know, call this from long before I was born.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I gotta say, the um the mare, I think it's plate one, right?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I forget how they number it, if it's like meant supposed to be the first plate or the last plate, but yeah, the titular plate, if you will.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the one everybody thinks of when when the when the mayor is mentioned, if you google the the the mayor, that's the like the image that usually pops up.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's one of my favorite, if not my favorite uh plates of any codex, because uh there's so much data uh like laid out in this single image, and it's and it's laid out so uh symmetrically, and the design elements in it are so perfect and beautiful, and the math works, and you know, when when I look at it, I'm like, well, how could you design because you know I was a graphic designer for a long time.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, how did they even design this?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much cool stuff going on in here, and uh it's all testable, it's all verifiable.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you could cross-reference this information with all the other quota seeds.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the funny thing that I like, you know, what I like to tell people is you know, you could test your homework by just following the sun.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't have to listen to me, you don't have to listen to Ochoa, you don't have to buy this calendar and and be like, Well, why should I trust you guys?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, test it, verify it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, don't don't believe me just because I'm saying it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the easiest way to do it is just to follow the sun, do it on your own.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I give people the homework and and they don't do it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and and mind you, the homework isn't go out there every single day for a year and look at the sun.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just even mean the part of literally write down the symbol day one and do that for 52 years.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you really want to do it, it's 8,980 days in people.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't have to.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: You the pattern is established right away.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, once you know what to look for in the polices, you see it, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it all clicks and it clicks because it works.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm of the opinion of one times the coincidence, but two times, three times, four times, or this is it's a pattern, and it's a pattern because it is the pattern, right?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um because it works, you know, and and so what's important just to backtrack a whole lot to when when you mentioned the omics, and you know, hopefully I don't throw off where you were gonna go next, but what we find and what we see then I I do want people to understand that what I am suggesting is not that every Mesoamerican culture had the exact same start date for the calendar and things of that sort, right?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and the reason I I do want to explicitly say that is because more and more people are recognizing other indigenous New Year's, right?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And these do come from indigenous communities, like you know, modern present day, right?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: But they are fully indigenous communities.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's important is to know that the original and traditional mechanism of we have 365, we have 20 symbols, we have you count all of these without stopping, that is what yields everything, right?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is what yields um the 52-year cycle.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's it, right?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so we know, for example, that at the time of European arrival, when Diego de Landa priest went into Yucatan, he literally wrote essentially, yeah, this is how they count.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, but we see it not just in because this priest wrote it, we see it in all their carvings, we see it in the dress and codex, like the math is all there, the math is proven in all of their carvings.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: But what it's it is is interesting.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: So when I realized what I realized, then the question was oh, wait a minute, this is the mechanism, and these codices are telling me that the year starts, you know.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: If we're being told 1521, August 13th was the day sequat, and I know 1521 was the year 3 Kali, then 1521, but not really, right?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: The year 3 Kali starts with 30 Somali.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna count back from the Julian because it wasn't Gregorian, um Secoat being August 13th to see what Julian date was 30 Somali.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was March 12th, 1521, which in 1521, March 12th was the day after the equinox.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the same held true when you try that for November 8th, being a day eight ahead.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is for 1519, so that's a year one aca.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: The year one aca, the math and the codistas told me it should start with the day one sip me.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's come back once again the day after the spring equinox.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that starts to, you know, it's a big aha moment, right?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, wait a minute.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, I start reading a lot of what the Coronistas wrote, they're all over the place, but a lot of them are like, yeah, dude, like so anal about you know, the sun coming up between the you know the two twin temples, or uh uh yeah, for Telaruk, which are supposed to be a top temple mayor, that if it was a little off, he had them like knock it down and redo it, right?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: We have all these markers in Mesoamerica that mark the econoth, also the solstice, also uh well, winter and summer, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean all indigenous peoples necessarily started on one of those four dates.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: I say four because there's two econauts, two solstices.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Diego de Landa getting back to him is writing that the Maya and Maya Pan, which is essentially a copy of Chichen Itza, were celebrating their new year on the 16th of July.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm almost positive that was the date.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I might be off.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't read it in a while.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is again Julian.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the 16th of July is really the 26th of July, which is really the day of the Zenith Passage there.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: So he's basically unknown, unknowingly telling us because he doesn't say Zenith Passage, they weren't even aware of what the hell was going on, right?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were marking out the Zenith passage.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they weren't marking it with the C Pack equivalent.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: But when you look at literally all their carvings and you look at you know every last page of the dress, and what we do know is that it was still independent of when they were starting it, and independent of the symbol they were starting it with, they were, because that's what the math dictates, starting every year with one or four symbols.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it would go, you know, one, two, three, four.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: What do I mean, one, two, three, four?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: First year, Mashika, Sati Bakli, followed by Omimiki, followed by you know, yeah, uh Somali, followed by Nawi, uh Oskaquali, right?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, nine.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is the pattern.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it doesn't go like the year starts with one and then eight, and you know, something else.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's one, two, three, four.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing holds true across you know the entirety of the Mayan world, right?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Regardless of when they're starting.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, even though modern Maya people are starting their calendar, let's call it in February, we can also look to the books of Silambalaam.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're starting it in July at the Zenith Passage, when those books were written.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And those are starting, different from a lot of the Mayan carvings, but starting with what is in fact the Sipaci Mikisli Osomalikos Kakauli equivalent.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, imish, eMi for Mikisli, so on and so forth.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: And all of that is verifiable and being done, you know, 400 years ago, even after the you know, Spaniard arrival, right?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, there are modern indigenous communities that might celebrate their year at a different point in time, but if we kind of do like a forensic accounting, if you will, the mechanism has always been the same.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: The year will always start with one of four symbols, and this is the numerical pattern that is established.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so ultimately that is important because the vast majority of what I will call danzantes, cultural practitioners, so on and so forth, don't do that.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, they what I found with um especially calendar stuff is uh you know, when I'm talking to people, sometimes I see their eyes glaze over because for the most part, and maybe this is changing now.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: People aren't so as much interested in like the you know the getting into the nitty-gritty of understanding the sequence and understanding how the calendar system works, or even necessarily like living by the calendar, utilizing the calendar as a living calendar.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: For the most part, people just want to know what dates are not and uh you know what dates that I give my son or daughter, you know, what dates should I give my kids and um And then they're just happy with that.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a mistake.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I understand it not everybody has the time or or is really into it the way that that we are uh interest-wise, but I think it's a mistake because then it becomes well, you're just accepting whatever somebody tells you and not understanding why.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I've never been satisfied with that.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been the guy that looks at the day and I'm like, okay, but why?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it this day?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when we know that you know the Chronistas were writing this, and it's just the way that it works.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: When you use the calendar, the the date starts, you know, the uh the New Year's well, the new year, the year starts the day after the equinox.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it makes perfect sense because even archaeologically we have these uh structures that we call e-groups uh in Mesoamerica, and they're they're situated in a way towards the east that if you stand in a certain spot, you know, and you're looking at the horizon, you'll it's marking the uh the rising of the sun throughout the year.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it takes 365 days, like you said, to get from to get back to its original starting point, and it's marked by these these uh temples that were placed there specifically to measure the count of the sun uh throughout the year and it's the equinox that happens because it's usually like a temple in the middle and then one off to the left and one to the right, or to the north and the south, because you're looking to the east.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And when that sun hits that center temple and it gets back to its starting point, it's the day after the equinox.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that like that's just how it works.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people get hung up over, you know, March this, March that, February this, and it's like, no, forget all of those things, just go by the equinox.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what is the day after we observe the equinox?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's an important uh point to make.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and so on on that, you know, getting back to you know, this is the mechanism, and how do we establish a correlation?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I mentioned, you know, the two dates that we have in both systems of uh November 8th, 1519, and then um August 13th, 1521.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I counted back, I mentioned, oh, okay, the start of the year happened to be the day after the equinox.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then the question becomes well, why not the day of the equinox?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not saying the day after because I want her to be the day after, I'm not saying the day of because I want to be the day of.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just presenting what I saw, right?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what happened?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is what it yielded, and and so then philosophically, or or just from uh like one asked why that people tied off the end of the year, right?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: So everything we you know they literally talk about bundling the year, and so you're you know, nice little knot and bow at the end, and that ends it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so the Econox, well, you can't wait for the marker to celebrate the new year because then it's upon you, and you're like, Oh, wait, today was the first day of the year, yeah, right.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you literally have to observe to confirm that you don't have to add another day for the sun to get to its position, because then you're like, today's the new year.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wait, the sun didn't come up there.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it didn't match exactly where it was supposed to be, right?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're you're waiting for the observance of the event to tie it off, I guess, is the point.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: But whether people want to think of it or not, that way, I mean, ultimately, it's the results that were yielded, right?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I got about this is what happened.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I tell people you should think of it like because when you talk about the AO symbol, if people Google the AO symbol, it's that solar ray with a band around it, right?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like literally uh a year, that solar ray being bound together, being tied off.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I always tell people, well, you should think of it like not in terms of the new year, but that the equinox represents the bundling off of the year that just passed, and then the day after it, you start the new count, right?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: The the next year begins.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it and so all of it is incredibly simple to me, right?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think people who understood that other system, number one, didn't understand that other system, they were just they didn't even know, like, well, that's what I was told, yada yada, right?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they don't actually understand it, and so then they think when I explain everything that it's complicated, but in truth, they have never been explained everything to realize how that's complicated.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is simple, yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that other calendar system, it the thing about that one is it just completely falls apart when you go from year to year.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: It like because that other system, and I think it's the only proposed count that does this, is they actually stop the Tonal Quali, right?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: They they stop it and then they force each year to start at Stipakli.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Which isn't how it it works.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you start at the beginning and count forward without stopping, that's not what happens.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: And for whatever reason, they force each year to start with tipli, and that just throws everything off.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: It like it destroys the entire system.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Literally everything.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it that it's just not how it's done, and understand that the difference of that to you know, at the beginning of this I don't know, podcast interview, whatnot, Latica.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mentioned that I had looked at the calendar very early on, long, long time ago, and then I abandoned the idea that we can even come to a conclusion.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: I never knew this, you know, start every year with the same day system.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason I abandoned the other one, because you you you asked if this were the if this was the only one who does that or that does that.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is yes.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: This this other town that starts every year with the same symbol is the only other the only one that proposed that, and everybody else kind of came after that as a derivative.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there are a few others.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: But the issue I had with when I abandoned it, not having been aware of this one, was that every every single cronista, right?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Every single European who set foot in indigenous cronista as well, once they learn, you know, the Spanish alphabet or whatnot, um they literally all wrote you know, these people who had a leap year just like ours.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, every you know, quote, academic from Catholic all but one, maybe literally were like, no, they didn't have a lead year.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like okay.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: So every single cronista that wrote from the moment you know Ten Rosikon quote fell to the first hundred years after, every single person said, Yeah, they had a lead year just like us.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everything in the Florentine, Diego de Ran, right?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Diego the Lana, you name it.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of them say, Yeah, they basically had a leap year just like ours.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't exactly, but we'll just roll with it, right?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: They had a lead year just like ours.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: But every academic said, no, they didn't, and that's just so insane because basically that means like you know, if I say, well, you know, the the muertos months, right?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um Mikairwi falls more or less around, you know, as we approach you know the fall.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as we approach it, not quite, right?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: But as we approach it, if we didn't have a leap day in just 80 years span, it would be off by 20.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so then it would be off by 40.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we're basically having like you know, the muertos ceremonies in you know, eventually in May, and then eventually in April, yes, and then eventually in January, right?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that just makes no sense.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so AztecCalendar.com, again, do not go there, people.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do not go to AztecCalendar.com.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: I eventually realized, hey, wait a minute, and you can literally just do the math.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're in 2022, Gregorian, and you subtract 1521, and that yields, you know, whatever 400 or 500 years, and you divide that by four, it's 125 or 126, whatnot.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, that calendar has now shifted off at assetcalendar.com, do not use it.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: They literally right now have the year starting, but people don't realize it because they don't play with it.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: They have the year, you know, ending, starting.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, let's call it the shift to um we're coming to the year.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Tentoshi.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: Tentochli is coming up.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, on asset calendar.com, do not use it.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Tentochi started back in October.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're over 120 days off because according to them, we didn't have a leap year.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: But what that also means is Lakashiko Alice, springtime ceremony, is happening.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I don't know, do the math.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nowhere near the actual equinox, right?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so by by eliminating uh a leap day, by eliminating that that correction of of a leap year, yeah, like the entire calendar falls out of sync.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Everything.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so while this other system doesn't make the entirety of it all fall out of sync, what it does do is for all those people who want to know their true actual tonale, you have like a you know, I don't even know, I don't want to call it one in 52 year chance, because even then it's not, it's like one out of the 52 years is maybe right or maybe off by one singular day, but by and large, you know, it's gonna be off.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if that really is important to you, well, both systems are off, right?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: One that doesn't include, you know, a leap year, one that does, but starts every year with the same symbol, it's still gonna be massively off.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: And no, for those of you listening, one C Pakli is not almost the same as two a hekah just because it's a separation of one, like that.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's just not the way it works.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're three or Somali and someone else is five or Somali, that's also not almost the same.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally, you know, you have 260 possibilities, and everything that comes from that as well, you know, it it's just not the same.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're not the payos, I guess.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: And earlier you had mentioned how um when you counted back for using you know August 13th, 1521.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: At that time, they were using the Julian calendar.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when you count backwards and you get to that first day, it it matched to like March 12th, I think, was the day after the uh the uh the equinox, the observed equinox.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: But then it shifts to the Gregorian, and so with that, the the calendar, the official calendar date used by the Gregorian calendar, the the day after the equinox is now the 21st, right?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because it shifts more or less, because it's gonna vary by like a day.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, what two things to clarify.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: When when you and I say the observed equinox, I want people to understand, you know, we didn't have atomic clocks or you know, Greenwich mean time, and like, you know, when is one day versus the other because of all these various time zones and so on and so forth, right?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so nowadays you'll look and on the news they'll be like, oh, the spring equinox is at you know 1 a.m.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: this year on the 21st.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like okay, but we measure at sunrise, right?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, well, when would that have been observed?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Was it then observed on the 20th?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: The sunrise before, was it observed on the 21st that morning sunrise?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and so one of the things I did was just literally look at Stellarium, you know, programs like that, where you could type in geographic location, you could, you know, look at the horizon, where's the sun rising relative to exactly Dewey's, all these different things, right?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: I had to learn the difference because we didn't always have this idea of daylight savings time, uh Pacific, so on and so forth.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like LMT and all these other time zones that even didn't exist at that time, right?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, all of that had to be taken into account to establish the the overall pattern, right?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the reality is that it's like, okay, well, back then they're just watching the sun rise, and it's like, okay, what criteria are we kind of establishing for what we consider the observable equinox?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, again, you know, I looked at a whole bunch of charts, literally, the computer program, it's like a live program where you could see where what stars were, where the sun was, everything else, the moon, you name it, at any point in the past and pretty much any point in the future, did all the charts and realized, okay, you know, this is kind of the cutoff for when when on the news they say the observable, or not, they don't say the observable equinox, but if they say the uh the equinox is at 2 a.m., then that Gregorian days, you know, that is the observable equinox.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so they say, well, the observable equinox was at 2 p.m.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not the observable equinox.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: If the equinox the equinox, the equinox, the hypertechnical, you know, NASA, whatever equinox, not the observable.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: If they say on the news, the equinox is at 2 p.m., the next day is our observable equinox.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because the next day is when you would have actually seen it with your naked eye, mark that point on the horizon.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: And while there are nuances to all of that, that's why I didn't just take it as like that's why I set out to do all these tables that I literally did by hand because I'm a little bit of a Luddite.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, don't ask me to use Excel, you know, and and saw what the pattern is, and so you could really just realize what the pattern is and continue on with that pattern, or you could go ahead and have boots on the ground and observe it.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, um, but uh I I did the work and so I trust the pattern, right?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there's that, and so when I went back, so I saw that and and I wanted to distinguish here like why we say observable equinox, yeah, not what they say on TV, because we're not watching the equinox at you know 3 a.m.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: or at 10 at night.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then get to what you said, like right now, when is the equinox?
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, right now we could say right now today, or we could say like for a string of years, yeah, it might be, you know, right?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so the day after the equinox, this year, where do I have that calendar?
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh March 21st, right?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: So so this coming year starts on the 21st?
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, because you know, the easy thing for me to say is this coming year starts on uh Tencos Kakauli.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and not have to worry about that whole March 21st, right?
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: The reason it's not always gonna be if we're going Gregorian and saying March 21st is because of how the Gregorian system adjusts their leap year.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's been chunks of time where the equinox, right, as measured by modern society, was the 20th, the twentieth, the twentieth, the twentieth.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or it might be really the pattern is more like the twentieth, twentieth, twentieth, twenty first, twentieth, twentieth, twentieth, twenty-first.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then it's twenty-first, twenty-first, twenty-first, twentieth.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it can also be twenty-one, twenty-one, twenty-one, twenty-two.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason because I did you know all the charts, like I said, is because of how the Gregorian calendar is adjusted.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: And by that I mean the secondary adjustment.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where we're gonna lose everybody and confuse everybody, but the Julian calendar added a meteor every four days without I mean every four years without fail.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why the calendar shifted.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, like a long time ago, before Europeans ever set foot here, there was already some popular I forget who that said the 21st of March is always the Equinox.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this is under the you know, had already like hundreds of years of the Julian calendar, and it's like, hey, wait a minute, the equinox is happening March 12th, some years March 11th.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, Gregor, you know, Pope Gregory said, Yo, dude, we need to fix this, right?
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that was already like, hey, we're off, right?
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so the fix to that in the Gregorian is it wasn't gonna be an extra day every four years.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: We were gonna skip it, not you know, some arbitrary count, but rather instead of saying every four years is a leap year, they said if a century year is divisible by 400, it'll be a leap year.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not, it won't be.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what do I mean?
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: In the past, the year 1600 would have had a leap day, the year 1500 would have had a leap day, the year 1400 would have, the year 1300 would have.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: But now, the year 1600 will, because it's divisible by 400, but not the year 1700, not the year 1800, and not the year 1900, and that's essentially their correction to try to not be off by as much as they used to be.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but they're allowing a huge error to accumulate, or not a huge error, but they're allowing more of the error to accumulate before they fix it.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas for the Mesoamerican system, as I proposed, we're fixing it as we go.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're not allowing this, you know, almost day error to accumulate in 100 years.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're literally, you know, eliminating that amount of error by just saying, hey, the year ends at the equinox and the new year starts the day after.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I already forgot your original question about you know.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I I want to point out that I think it's um is it Rafael Tena that is probably the only mainstream academic out there, a big name academic who said that there was a leap year.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I I want to say he's the first I'm aware of, and he first proposed it to my knowledge, and I could be wrong because it's not like I'm you know uh going out trying to get every book written these days.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think he actually proposed that back in 1987, yeah, which is cool, and I don't think he planned it, but because it's a year seakat, right?
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: So kicking off a 52, which is a whole other issue to address with people's mother time, right?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, he's like, well, yeah, they're sleepy, yeah.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why wouldn't there be?
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially, for the same reason that anyone else should have gone along with it this whole time.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone says it, but it's not just I'm sure not every academic.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Although original Korean state it, but it's the only thing that makes sense.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would we not have, right?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why would we have allowed, you know, Cacholi to shift when it takes place, right?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why would we have allowed the month of Chpanizli to now take place at a different time of the year by not including the leap day before, right?
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it just doesn't make sense that a people who are so dedicated to astronomy and using it to to chart the progression of time and using that calendar in relation to ceremony that's tied to the seasons and agriculture and warfare.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't make any sense that they would be when it came to that, they'd be like, Yeah, nah, we don't care.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just we won't use the leap, we won't, you know, adjust the calendar at all.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is it, it's set in stone, we're just going with this.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: It it has to be anchored, and you know, I forget which of the various coronitas, it's probably more than one, but that they use the term fixed feasts and movable feasts, yeah.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so the fixed feasts are the ones associated with the vaintenas, right?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're fixed in time, they happen at the same time of the year every year.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you're not gonna have Lakashiko Walisy taking place in December, it's fixed to a set time in the year, yeah, and it's all you know positional, right?
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Where we're at relative to the seasons, if you will, and you know, the position of the sun.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas the movable feasts are the ones that are based on the tonali.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, like every Nawioli we celebrate the sun.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's gonna happen every 260 days.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: Some years it'll be once, some years it'll be twice.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: But that's why it's called the movable feast.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: The rest are fixed, they're literally anchored, and so yeah, of course, we have to have.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, we can just let it float in time.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, R Rafael Tena is the first one that I I'm aware did that.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a lot of these people I didn't I even become aware of until I had stumbled upon what I stumbled on.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, I had abandoned all of this and then decided to look at it again and approach it strictly with indigenous sources.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: Then I started looking back.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the the issue with Tena, which I believe is the one like his correlation is the one that Archeolohia Mehicana uses, I believe.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's either his, yeah, I think it is his, right?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know when the change happened.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know when the change happened, but I believe at least for five, ten years, Archeolohia Mehicana uses tenas.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: The the issue with his is uh again, my theoretical endocodices essentially say practically osmalikoska probably start the year, whereas he is starting the year with a different set of um symbols, uh the other three that go with that, yeah.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it would be like out of the 20 symbols, it would be the fourth, the ninth, the fourteenth, and the nineteenth.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like uh, you know, masa, malinali.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there you go.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Quetzpalin, masa, malinali, and uh Kiawi, right?
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, those are the four that he says.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where is it at?
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's those four that starts the year.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not looking at anything right now, so I'm just kind of going off of memory here.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's starting it.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: I forget if it's the middle February.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he but he's I don't know.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've got one of his calendars here somewhere.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, it's February.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say the middle February.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: I forget exactly why, but it's like I'm telling you, this is what the theoretical says, right?
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: What I call theoretical again of the whole hero me and go along.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: The codices agree, right?
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what, right?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: Archaeoastronomy agrees.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not, you know, for the life of me, I don't know where he gets the idea of those four symbols.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't say for the life of me, I have some idea.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and part of that is actually now that I'm remembering a little bit, a lot of academics of the last 50, 60 years propose because there's some something to that in the Mayan world, right?
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Except again, we have evidence from the Mayan world that a number of things for the calendar were moved around and manipulated.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll touch a little bit more on that in a little bit, but a lot of academics of the last 50, 60, 70, 80 years basically believe that the year bearer was the first day of the year, or the last day of the year, or the 360th day of the year.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: They were kind of really one of those three, right?
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it the idea there, I don't know.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't hold me to this if the reason Tena proposes those four symbols, uh the Quetzpalin series, if he proposes those because if the year bearer is the last day of the year, then the next day, which would be the first day of the year, is Quetzpalin.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that series of four symbols.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: That may be why don't hold me to that.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, interestingly, in none of those systems is it the case that, like let's say the year 13 aca, the last day of the year is 13 Aka, that doesn't happen.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: If the year is 13 Aka, the first day of the year is 13 ACA, that also doesn't happen in those systems.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I I so it's like even when they say the year bears the last day of the year or the first day of the year, well, they're just talking about the symbol and not the coefficient.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that stuff is.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: And none of that fits.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally none of that fits.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so all of that also starts to fall apart, right?
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I remember when you showed me those, uh I rem I can't remember which document it is that has the years written out with the coefficients.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the n the year numbers.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh was it the Rios?
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's the Rios.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's it's there.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can confirm that this is how they recorded the calendar functioning.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then also uh, you know, the the four year bearers starting off with these four specific days, you know, not only is it something that it just happens naturally when you start counting, but I remember when you showed me, I I believe it was you that showed me the uh Celia Nutz book.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or her note the no oh, you know, it's like uh it's called the Note on the Ancient Calendar, I think, and it's basically a paper that she presented to some meeting of anthropologists or something.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to say it was like 1904.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was 1994.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: 1894.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: This was a while ago, yeah.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I became aware of that document after I had already figured everything out because and somebody could probably do the homework on this and pinpoint at some point in the last seven to ten years, Google Books started scanning a bunch of old documents, and that's the only reason I even came across that.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So in the last seven to ten years, we now have access to old books that you know obviously we never like good luck finding that somewhere.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she also ties the new year to the to the equinox, right?
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know where or why or how she made this error.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But she does virtually the same thing I did.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: She's quoting Mexican scholars from like the mid 1850s of saying Yeah, the year starts with Mikisio Somali Coscali.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm sorry, see back in Mikisio Somalico Scarcali.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then she basically said, Well, let's just come back, right?
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know why she gets you know, just a simple error in writing it down, you know, like an accounting error, right?
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you have me proof the calendars, one little mistake, and it's like, yeah, you know, if you don't catch it, everything off.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: She counted back and got to the day of the ephonox.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: But anyone at home could go and do the do the homework, like it gets you back to the day after the ephenage.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know why she made that or how she made that mistake.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I mean, essentially she was proposing this and building upon other people that apparently were basic essentially saying this 120 some odd years ago, 170 some odd years ago by these other Mexican scholars um who she was referencing, right?
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, like it's it's all it's one of those where there was no reason why this shouldn't have been figured out a long time ago.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think we're gonna wrap it up right now.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want this to go on too long.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_02: But the book, we just we just put it out, it's now available for purchase.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's a beautiful full color.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you got yours, right?
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I had some sent to you.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_01: The last batch has not got in here.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-oh.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it's called a Mexican Count of Days, the Mexica calendar for the year.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: 10 Rabbit uh Curly Tlapoyawa and Ruben Ochoa, you could get it uh through Amazon, but if you're not down with supporting Amazon, you could just pick one up from uh Ochoa himself.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I know quite a few people have already done that because they're hitting me up online saying that they got their calendar from you.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh or you can get it directly from me.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_02: You could go to chimali.org and pick up uh your copy there.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that, you'll get it directly from me.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll throw in like a free sticker or something uh for your trouble.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you for taking your time to uh to go over this stuff.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of information.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I know it can be overwhelming uh for first-time people.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_02: I remember my first conversations with you, we would talk for like hours, and then I would just sit there going over all of these codices and and cronistas and you know, primary source documents, uh like, damn, it all lines up.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then it just really blew my mind that uh because you know, so many danzantes are just so tied to this other uh system and uh it's like I'll explain things to them and they're like, oh, that makes perfect sense.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_02: But even then they're like, but this is the calendar that our grupo uses, so that's just what we're gonna go with.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, that's fine, but you know, if you want to have it right, here's this calendar.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I have too many stories about those kind of situations, man.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: We won't get into them.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks for joining me, man.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's been a pleasure.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, the truth is like medicine, it doesn't always taste good, but it's always good for you.