Latest / Hold Your Ground / Skinhead Belongs To Us with Russel Payne of The Oppressed

Transcript

Skinhead Belongs To Us with Russel Payne of The Oppressed · Hold Your Ground

• joe: What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Hold Your Ground, the podcast, where you get working class culture without all the bullshit. I'm joined again today by my co hosts Luis and Copy and we have a very special guest today. but first, how you boys doing? Luis: how you doin'? joe: well, I mean you we we've been talking Russell Payne: Okay. joe: on the phone, you know how my day's going. I fucking wanna destroy Copy: Yeah. joe: everything within fucking reach. So yeah. Luis: You're having a Russell Payne: Hmm. Luis: Monday on a Wednesday, bro. joe: Word. How you do, copy? Copy: He's having a regular work I'm doing great. You just seem to have a regular working class Wednesday, so you know, shit happens. You're gonna get over it. joe: Yeah. Well now that we got the pleasantries out of the way, on to our very special guest who has an introduction from none other than copy. Copy: Alright, folks, listen the fuck up because we're taking it back to the streets of Cardiff in March of 1981. That was the year a raw, pissed-off working-class sound erupted from the Welsh underground, and the legendary oi band, The Oppressed, was born. They didn't just play loud and fast as shit. They built a goddamn movement. They championed the anti-fascist oi music and proved that real punk rock stands for unity and fighting the fuck back against the bullshit. Right there at ground zero, plugging in to lay down explosive rifts that defined a generation was our next guest. From the chaotic blood sweat in the early days of their debut record to the tearing up the stages today, he's a founding father who never lost his uncompromising heart as fucking nails energy. He helped build this scene from the ground up, and he's here to tell you tear this place apart. So get on your goddamn feet and Raise your glasses to all the skins and birds, thugs and nerds I give you the great Russell Payne. Russell Payne: Hello, how's it going? joe: All right. Russell Payne: Nice one guys. That was a nice intro. Luis: Happy to have you. Russell Payne: I like that intro, Copy: Chairs. Russell Payne: was cool. joe: Very good. Copy: Sometimes I could actually write some decent things, you never know. joe: No doubt. So how have you been, Russell? Russell Payne: I've been good. We've had a good couple of gigs. It's been a great couple of years, you know. Met you up, we didn't meet actually, no, in Dublin we were supposed to meet, but that was a great gig. It was a real honour for us, we were invited by the Dropkick Murphys to open their world tour and that was pretty special, know, really enjoyable. joe: Absolutely. Yeah, that was a wicked show. For those of you who are just tuning in and do not know about that show. It was Anne Slua, Death Before Dishonor, The Oppressed, and The Dropkick Murphys, and it Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: went Fucking wild. And I was lucky enough to be there. As Russell said, we were supposed to meet up, but I had the family and you know the family we're in Ireland. We gotta go do stuff. And it just it didn't pan Copy: Yeah. joe: out. But next time we'll meet up for sure. But it was Russell Payne: Yeah, sure. joe: a phenomenal show. Luis: We will meet up. Russell Payne: Did I meet you in, did I meet you in your band, your brother used to play, or plays in 21 Gun salute? Is that right? joe: Yeah, yeah. So one well there th those guys are all my brothers and you Russell Payne: right. joe: know it's a it's a Unity Bay on there and I was not at that show. I didn't I didn't get to make it to Canada. At that point, Russell Payne: candidate. joe: I wasn't allowed in Canada 'cause I was a bad boy in my youth. Copy: Shocker. Yeah. Luis: But he's allowed now. Like let's let's he is allowed now. joe: I am allowed now. Russell Payne: You're allowed, but that's okay. We'll have to go back then and we'll meet up there. joe: yeah, one of these days, man. I'll be back over that way too. So one of the really cool things, you know, with with us traveling back and forth. So my wife and my my child are tri citizens. They're US citizens, obviously, but they're also Canadian citizens and UK citizens. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: so we kind of bounce around between all over the fucking place over there and Canada and here. Luis: Well I'd also like to point out that one day the oppressed will actually come to the States again because we will be a free country and we will see the oppressed play in the United States one day. I still believe that. Russell Payne: I hope Copy: And and Russell Payne: so too. Copy: it and if not, can you adopt us please? Russell Payne: Ha ha! Hey, I'm sure... Listen, it don't look like he's gonna go on too much longer, hopefully. Copy: I hope not. Russell Payne: And there'll be a way in. I'm sure. Copy: Hoping. Luis: Hopefully. Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: yeah, ho hopefully things will change. But with that, we're really lucky to have you and we want to get into it. for those that don't know, who are the oppressed and how long have you been around? Because we do have some new kids that come in and and listen and everything like that. let's get into it. How long have you been doing this? Russell Payne: Well, we started in 1981. Me and my twin brother and a couple of friends. And we went through a couple of little changes. then Roddy and Dominic joined the band. And it was from that moment that we started getting a bit more, we'd certainly got on better as a band. We started getting a bit more professional as well. know, it was enjoyable for the... for the one thing and anyone out there in a band will understand getting those dynamics right is the most important thing you know you can write good music and good lyrics but unless you all get on and go pulling in the same direction it ain't gonna work you know when Roddy joined the band me and him got on like we've known each other forever you know and we're still the same now We're still like brothers, best mates, you name it, Luis: That's that's beautiful. what made you decide to stand out to be an anti fascist band? What made politics go to the forefront of the music? Russell Payne: Well, we weren't that political early days, you know, because we were just like your average kids who just left school. One interest in politics at all. I thought your average politician was just someone who was going to pocket all the cash. I realized, no, that is the story. There are good ones and there are bad ones. But for us, was the skinhead scene. We went into the skinhead scene. A lot of our friends were punks, but we're all good mates together. and the skinhead scene wasn't political at the time. And it was only when the skinhead scene started getting... infiltrated by the right wing, if you like. This is when we stood up and started to take note of this. We grew up in Canada in a place called Grangetown, which is right next to the docks. So the docks has always been very multicultural. So we went to school with people from all around the world. Their parents were from other places, India, Pakistan. Jamaica, Africa, you name it. We got the oldest Somalian Yemeni communities in Europe here right in Cardiff in the docks, know? Yeah, Centuries, yeah. Copy: Dope. Luis: Yeah, wow. Russell Payne: So when this thing started to get twisted, this was when we had to start taking note. we were noticing people pointing fingers, pointing the finger at us when we were in our local area walking on the streets because... As far as what the newspapers were telling these people is we were right-wing Nazis, know, National Front British Movement, because this was what the press was putting out. And then you were getting skinheads joining the scene around this time because they were reading the bad stories in the press, you know? So they were getting into it thinking they were being bad boys, being little... racist bad boys when they were being used by the right wing, you know? And a lot of were just clueless kids who probably weren't racist anyway, but they just thought they were being naughty, you know? So it was around this time that we had to make a stand and that's when we put work together out and put the black and white skinhead on the cover, you know. We didn't realize what impact that would have, you don't think of all these things do you? But it certainly did make an impact and we still see that now. We get people coming up to us at gigs wherever we're playing, in Europe or anywhere else in the world. And people like our age, maybe in their 60s. or say thank you for changing things for us, you know? And we, Copy: Yeah, you are. Russell Payne: yeah, yeah. We'd done a great gig in Vienna and I was chatting with a fella in the crowd afterwards. He was in his 60s about my age and he said, can I introduce you to my son? I gave him your album and this is his son who now listens to your album. Three Generations, enough beautiful, Copy: That's awesome. That that's see, I was gonna Luis: That's awesome. That Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, was really good. Copy: say that that like your music did. It helped drive my generation. I'm I'm in my mid-40s, so like that was a very strong, nice thing to have to play as opposed because I grew up in Eugene, Oregon, where we have a very severe problem with neo-fascism and neo-Nazis, and it was Hard being the odd man out in that town. There was just a you know, very Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Copy: few of us anti-racist skinheads. So it I I thank you so much. I like like Joe and Louise said, I have my fanboy moment. And this truly is one of those moments where it's like, holy shit, I'm talking to a legend. Luis: Yeah, no, I've yeah, your music since the time of young. It's always been there with me. And like we've talked before and I cannot thank you enough for it. still to this day, Russell Payne: Nobody. Luis: I love when Spotify tells me that I'm in the top one percent of the oppressed listeners for that month. I love that shit. Copy: Yeah. Russell Payne: Nice one, nice one. Luis: But yeah, copy, do you have any questions or anything while Joe's on the phone handling work calls? Copy: you know, I just I I don't know. I I guess I'm still stuck in that. I have you ever shit, how do I f Yeah. Russell Payne: The other thing I'd like to say is, the getting involved with the political thing, or getting political, for me... The right wingers, the people who got involved in the Skinhead scene and started going right wing or got into it because they felt it was right wing, they fucked up the whole scene. They fucked it up for people like me when Skinhead was fun and I could go into town and go to gigs and a lot of my friends were punks. Then it started splitting, you know? And there was a divide and people didn't wanna be seen with skinheads anymore. So then these guys who actually a lot of them know will It's like a denial, you know, they make a... I heard someone talking recently online and he's a big noise in the skinhead scene and he was saying about how politics is ruining everything and I've got, yeah, and I've got mates on the left and I've got mates on the right. And I was thinking, well, you're just sat on the fence between the two then, you all, you know, which hat are you gonna wear today, you know? Luis: Yeah. Copy: Yeah, Joe's Joe's got a very, very, very awesome little statement he makes for that. joe: I do. It's you know, I'm a pretty firm believer, Russell, that if there's fucking three Nazis at a table and you go sit down and break bread, there's four Nazis at that fucking table. You know? Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: Yeah, that's Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: a you know, being apolitical, especially when we're seeing this resurgence of fascism and Nazism worldwide, is a political statement in itself that you either agree with what's happening or you're just too bitch made to take a stance. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. joe: Right. Which either way I view as bitch made because you either agree Copy: Yeah. joe: and you're too bitch made to fucking to to stand up against the left, or you're just fucking a completely made up pussy loser who can't stand up for anything. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, speak up for yourself, innit? joe: Yeah. Russell Payne: was going to say something in there. Yeah, and the other thing when they say a politico, I think usually when people say this kind of thing, they've usually got something to hide, maybe something in the past that they don't want revealed. That's my opinion anyway, on a joe: Words. Russell Payne: lot of people, you know. joe: Yeah, Copy: Yeah. joe: so that's something that I always I talk about I talked about it yesterday. We had we talked with Jenny Woo yesterday. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: a bit, you know what I mean? And she asked a question like, Okay, so I forget exactly what the question was, but it was like what made you kind of soften Towards the world and I I don't know if I have, but it'd definitely be having my child. But one of the things that I've always said about that is, you know, when it comes to my past, like I'm a piece of shit. And like I recognize that, right? I I am all the things that people think are wrong. I'm a toxic fucking just I'm a man I I c I can be a complete fucking maniac. It's not me all the time, but I have those traits, right? so if Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: people wanna go dig up my past, I'm like, Well, I what do you wanna know? All you gotta do is ask, I'll tell ya. You know what I mean? Like I'm not ashamed Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. joe: of I mean there's things that I wish that I would have done differently. There's there's definitely you know things throughout my history in my life, but I stand on everything that I've ever done. It has brought me to this point in my life. So I just I like Copy: Yeah. joe: you were saying, people that wanna hide their past, I just I don't understand it. Luis: Ben's going crazy. joe: Yeah, dude, it's like this is Copy: He always does. joe: I also I want to apologize to all of you because as you've seen I've been on and off with I've got work phone calls going on like crazy. This dog is going nuts. It's a w it's a wild day. Copy: You are just fine, homie. And if anybody has a problem with it, I'll come talk to me. Russell Payne: Mm. Luis: What was it like to be in the scene before there were boneheads? That must have been that must Copy: that would have been beautiful. Luis: have been an amazing time. Russell Payne: Yeah, it was great. Yeah, was great to hear in Cardiff. don't know, Cardiff's probably not typical of, know, places like London would have been completely different because it's so vast, you know. Here, where we, you probably knew everyone, you know. We had a great, there was a great club here called Cardiff Top Rank and all the big bands that came and played there, you know. So it was a real meeting place and all. And you could go there and it'd be, probably 2000, you didn't know everyone's name, but you knew most of the people there, most of the faces, you know? And it's where we would all meet then. when you leave school, I left school at 15, and it was 77, So it was a good time, know? Musically it was great, because the punk explosion that changed the whole path of music, basically. So me and my little gang from Grange Town, we got into the skinhead scene. But how it happened, we were all football fans. We'd follow our club, Cardiff City. And we were away at Chelsea and we seen some skinheads there. And we knew what they were, because it was only a few years earlier that it sort of ceased into the early 70s. We all thought they looked really cool, you know? So we got back home to Cardiff after the match. First thing Monday, we're rung our local Steve Lazarus barbers, all having our heads shaved. And then Luis: Yeah. Russell Payne: it's our quest then to find the best gear, you know? And Luis: Yeah. Russell Payne: we had some great shops here. There was a place called Gwynns in the market in town. And actually the same store now, a good friend of ours, in the scooter scene. He's got a shop there called Mojo King. So he does all his mod, skinhead, alternatives type stuff. But we used to go up to Gwyn's for, they do Ben Sherman's, they do state press, not great ones, but the best you could get at the time, tonic trousers. Copy: Yeah. Russell Payne: But me and my gang found a little, In the docks we found this a gent outfit that was called Maurice's. Now this fella used to supply all the merchant sailors with their kit when they were going away. But what he would say to the sailors, if you're going to the States, bring back Levi's Stay Press, any size, any color. So we found these Stay Press in Maurice's and it was the best kept secret. We didn't tell anyone. It was just our little secret zone. Everyone Copy: I wouldn't either. Russell Payne: in Grange Town, all my little gang, we were all running around in Levi's State Press, all the colors. had my favorite pair, a pair of whites, but I also had a light blue pair. They were special, you know. But that was cool. So we had all the gear and we... There were a lot of secondhand shops then. Nowadays they're called... their charity shops, but they would be private because they wouldn't be, they weren't charity shops at the time. So if you think this was like 1978, it was only 10 years after the mod thing ended. So all the parents whose kids had moved off, gone to uni or gone, you know, moved away from home, they were clearing out, they give them 10 years, they're not coming back now, clear out their wardrobes. So we'd be Luis: Right. Russell Payne: going on these second hand shops picking up amazing shirts and putting them in press and Ben Sherman and J Tech. Yeah, yeah. Luis: that's awesome. Russell Payne: So it was good. Copy: That's where I got this Ben Sherman here. I g I found it a at Goodwill's what it's called here. And it was sitting there for twenty five bucks and I was like, Are you fucking serious? Russell Payne: ha, you gotta have that. Yeah, yeah. Copy: Yeah, it it because a lot of that's the thing here in the States is the those second hand shops like that, they don't know what the hell they have a lot of the time. So Russell Payne: Okay Copy: they're just like, it's you know, it's polo or, you know, Ralph Lorenz or whatever. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well here they're getting clever now. they've got people in the shops and they know what things are worth. But you can still buy the bag. Copy: Yeah. joe: I'll tell you one of the one of the things that blew me away when I was in Ireland in June. I was in a TK Maxx, and they they Russell Payne: Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. joe: were loaded down with Ben Sherman's for like Russell Payne: Ben Schumann's on the road. joe: yeah, for like 20 euro a piece. And I Russell Payne: I know. joe: was like, I'll take that, and I'll take that, and I'll take that, and we'll get some of these. Copy: Yeah, th this asshole sends me a picture. How much do you think I paid for this? And I'm like, fuck you. Russell Payne: Yay. ha ha. Luis: I remember getting those two when he was over there, right? Copy: Yeah. Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: I don't know. I found that weirdly the interwebs is a good place to get some quality Copy: Yeah. Luis: clothing pretty cheap still, right? Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Luis: I just got a a a button down white Fred Perry from London for like twenty bucks, but the deal is it cost me like sixty bucks in shipping. You know what I mean? But like yeah Copy: Yeah, right. See that's why you gotta buy in Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Copy: bulk and then then it's worth it. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. But there's a good site. Go on, show it. Luis: Yeah, but right now right now our tariffs are fucked up from everywhere that come if you got anything coming from any other country, not the United States, Copy: Yeah. Luis: it you gotta pay a shitload for. joe: Yeah. Copy: Yeah, it's all the fucking shitheads tariffs. Russell Payne: man, it's crazy innit? Luis: Yeah. It really is. Russell Payne: The situation is... It's not good here in that respect because we... since Brexit, since the idiots here were convinced they needed to get breakaway from Europe, you know. And since then, things are spiraling upwards. Donald Trump keeps putting tariffs on people. They're going one way. I don't know. It's not a great world at the moment, Copy: I was really, really just joe: It's not. Copy: blown away that Italy brought back Mussolini's granddaughter. That just fucking blew my mind that that still just like, are you kidding me? The name alone Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Copy: should fucking give you pause. joe: Yeah. Russell Payne: man. And Germany with the AFD. How crazy. Copy: Yeah. It's it's been wild to watch. joe: Mm-hmm. Russell Payne: I got a lot of German friends and they're pretty embarrassed by it all. I'm really upset by it all. Copy: No, it's the same thing I I'm sure. I I know I have complete shame, I own I served in the military here and this is this is not this is not what this country is. Russell Payne: No, no, no. joe: You know what you know what's super wild though? I do wanna point this out. Like and I'm not saying that the rise of of the right wing in any other country is a good thing by any means, but it's pretty wild that you have the self-proclaimed fascist party that took control in Italy, and you have the rise of the AFD in in Germany Russell Payne: Germany. joe: Germany, and there's still more progressive than the United States, which is fucking wild to me. Than like the than our quote unquote left party, the Democrats. It's it's wild to me. The only like I I won't say the only, but I will say that one of the things that puts it it so last year I had full intention, we were immigrating to the UK. We were moving to Scotland. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: Right? Like it was full bore, we're fucking doing this. And then I watched Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: as Nigel Farage started getting real popular. And I watched the rise of reform. And reform is fucked up. They're on some US right wing bullshit. Right? Copy: Mm-hmm. joe: And it really Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: it gave me pause. It it just com we completely fucking halted our tracks in doing that. because of the rise of reform. And and that's you know, aside from just regular right-wing fucking fascist nonsense, like I just don't I don't feel comfortable making a move that big to get deported in fucking five years, if they take power, right? Copy: Right. Russell Payne: Yeah, I seriously think they're gonna implode by then, you know. think joe: I hope I hope so. Russell Payne: people are beginning to work them out, you You've got your thick people who just vote that way anyway, regardless. You can tell them that they're gonna lose their houses and things will be going through the roof. And they'll still vote because they're fucking stupid, ain't they? joe: It's wild to me, Russell, because Copy: Mm-hmm. joe: they're like, We fucking hate the Tories, so let's go vote for a bunch of ex Tories. It makes no s it makes no sense, right? But Russell Payne: Exactly! That old jumping ship! Yeah! Yeah, Copy: Right. Russell Payne: yeah! joe: Where I was going with that is it it did, it put it put me on a fucking on a major fucking halt, right? Because while I I am extremely hopeful and I I see that as well, where they are they're losing some of that sympathy that they had. I'm also not willing to bet everything that I've ever worked on and and my family's future on that. until it's more concrete. But where I was going with that is that it's fucked up to see these other places that have a lot of really cool things going for them. You know what I mean? So like the UK has some pretty cool shit going for it. Russell Payne: Yeah, definitely, joe: you know, with with the NHS, with the fucking I know the cost of living is high for a lot of people in the UK, but Russell Payne: It is. Yeah. joe: comparatively, like going over there Copy: Yeah. joe: and being comparatively, it's fucking down here. You know what I mean? It's wild. And Copy: Yeah, he's he sent a picture of what was it, just a burger pack that had the the burger patties, all the trimmings lettuce, tomato, onion, and it was like what five bucks? And it was for four people. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: It was like yeah, it was it was w it was wild. But that's also coming from the US. The wages are different, things like that. But The point of that was that you guys do have a lot of really cool shit going for you, and it's it's fucked up to watch you United St the United States, US imperialistic fucking fascist movements make their way into other countries because historically, Russell Payne: Yeah joe: like even the right wing being the Tories, let's say, in the UK, we're nothing compared to the fucking Republicans and the wild MAGA conservative shit here. But we're starting to see the bolstering of these new parties. parties that are fucking moving further and further and further and further into a fascist agenda and it's super fucking concerning. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, but you take the, you mentioned the NHS and I drive a taxi nowadays, I used to be a cab inter, but anyway, I drive a taxi now. a lot of my fears are back and forth to the hospitals and I'm constantly talking to people who have maybe broken a leg, broken a bone and gone in or been taken in, being fixed and sent home. What would that cost in the US, you know? Would you be questioned on Have you got joe: Ridiculous. Russell Payne: a bank account date? Should you really be in this country? I don't know. Here, you're going to get fixed. joe: So let me tell you a real I'll just I'll talk about real quick here, right? But I have a friend here in the States, he lives not far from me, and he currently has prostate cancer, stage four, and it's it's it's pretty bad. And his Russell Payne: Okay. Yeah. joe: insurance decided to say, well, being that it's stage four, that was definitely pre-existing before you got insurance with us. So we're not covering that. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: And Russell Payne: my- joe: since then he has sold let me just finish this real quick, Luis. I see you keep raising your hand there. But so he has since sold virtually all of his stuff. And he's paid like thirty grand, I think it is, into it so far. He's in debt twenty-eight thousand dollars right now, as of last I had Russell Payne: kid. man. joe: talked to him. And his medication until he has surgery, they're not doing surgery on him. The first they could get him in was December. But in the meantime, Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: he's gotta do he's gotta take all this medication. He's on a double dose of chemo, all this kind of shit. It's thirty-two thousand dollars per month. And it's not Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. man. joe: covered by his insurance. Russell Payne: dear. joe: Mm-hmm. So by the time that everything's said and done, if he survives. Copy: It's it's fucking disgusting here. Russell Payne: in joe: By the time he has surgery, he's gonna be two hundred thousand dollars or more in debt. Luis: That's Russell Payne: dear. Luis: that's if you're I I mean, I don't I I'm assuming that your friends white show, because like I know if you're have melanin in your skin and come from a different culture, you no longer feel comfortable going to the hospitals because our hospitals are the front lines for ice. I don't know if you know that, Russell, but Russell Payne: Ay. Luis: like so nurses and doctors whose job it is to just care for people will call ice in the feds on people of color. And there was here in Oregon An instance of a migrant family taking their two year old daughter at three in the morning to the hospital and the father ended up in ICE detention. And I Russell Payne: man. Luis: think the kid did too for for a minute. It was a big deal. So joe: Yeah. Luis: here we can't even trust our medical facilities to not Russell Payne: dear. Luis: report. So a lot of people will have stopped going in general. Also, there was a case Copy: Yeah, it's it's Luis: here a few years ago at a private hospital, because not all hospitals here in the US are public, right? Some of them are private. And there was an indigent person there who needed care desperately, but had no insurance. And this hospital is like, we don't see indigent people. So this person ended up dying in their parking lot. Cause they called nine Copy: Yeah. joe: Wild. Luis: one one and ambulance from another part of town had to come all the way to the west side to transport them because this hospital doesn't see indigent people. Not here in the Russell Payne: That's shocking, isn't it? Shocking. joe: Pretty gross. Copy: Yeah. Luis: not here in the States though, right? That's the sad Copy: Yeah. Luis: thing, is that it's not shocking. Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: for example, I but there are some good things in Oregon here. For example, I have an Oregon health plan and I had a heart attack. I had two stints put in my heart and And I got to walk away without one bill. That's that's not everybody though. Like like Russell Payne: Okay. No, no. Copy: Yeah. Luis: like Copy and Joe live in the same state and they will tell you different stories. Russell Payne: Okay. Copy: Well, I'm also I ha I have insurance from the VA, the Veterans Administration here. So while it's good that I have insurance and I'm very, very grateful in that I have it, it it's not all it's cracked up to be that everybody's like, you got this and it's like you don't understand. It's it's just as bad as when we were in the military almost. joe: Dude, I got a f Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: I got a funny one Luis: Right. joe: with that. So I got fucking stabbed. through my hand and I went Russell Payne: Okay. joe: to the hospitals. I have the VA as well, I'm a veteran as well, you know what I mean. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: I got stabbed through my hand and I went to the hospital and they had to do a fucking surgery and cut the tendons and pulleys and shit so that my fingers were moved because my hand was locked like this. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: You know? So they did that. And they're like, that was really dirty. And we cleaned Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: a bunch we cleaned a bunch we clean I can't speak. We cleaned it out as best we could, but here's the course that we recommend. You have to get on some heavy antibiotics like right now. Because for the next fucking ten days or so, you're at high risk for infection and losing your hand. And I was like, I was like, okay, well, cool. So I called Russell Payne: man. joe: the VA because this was like I got out of the hospital like two in the morning or some shit like that, right? So I called in the morning and I was like, yo, this is what happened. I went to the hospital. Like, you can't just go to the hospital. I was like, Yes, I can. It was an emergency, yada, yada, yada. but they I have to get this medicine. And I need to know how I can get this at a at a local pharmacy. And they're like, You have to come to the VA campus in Los Angeles, five and a half hours away from where I live, mind you. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: And I was like, I I can't. I can't do that. And they're like, You have to. And I was like, I can't. We can't get it from a local pharmacy. And they said, No. I said, check it out. Like, I'm at risk for losing my hand. I'm on all sorts of fucking pain medication. Still, I can't get in the car and fucking drive. Exact words. Not my problem. Copy: Not my problem. joe: hung up the phone and I was all black Russell Payne: Big name. joe: like just lost it, you know? Russell Payne: Wow. Copy: Yeah, Luis: Yeah, I I I Copy: I've Luis: I mean not to mention that every everything in America right now is race b race is behind everything. If it if it it's it's behind your job, people forget that we still live in a country where our Supreme Court said it is legal to stop people based on the language that they speak, their ethnic identity, or their cultural background. This is still in play in the United States. So Copy: Well, and watching it every d every day, day to day stuff. I went to the emergency room. I have a shoulder injury and Latino family came in. And we I live in a sea of white people. There's you know, it's mostly white Russell Payne: Yeah. Copy: dominated here. And this Latino family sits down and just about every other white person literally got the fuck up and moved to the other side. It was like watching fucking Russell Payne: Really? Copy: s like the nineteen sixties, you know. I was just Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah Copy: blown away and I got dirty looks 'cause I I I'm very loud and proud here. It says, I'm white, but I'm not that white. It's a it's a it's a weird Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, wow. Luis: But I mean Copy: weird, weird thing that that like watching the country devolve the way it has is just disgusting. Yeah, that the whole foundation. Yeah, I Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, and a country was built on immigration like most of our countries. Copy: mean, my family Luis: Right. Copy: came over in the twenties and thirties from Poland and Ireland, so it's like Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Luis: I mean, yeah, it it it it's re it's ridiculous and it's getting more ridiculous every day. and that's why we often say that the Democrats are the liberal wing of the mega party, right? That we joke Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: we joke on our podcast that there's only one political party in the United States anymore. It's the mega party. Right? And and you have your you Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: have your liberals, which are the Democrats, the the liberal Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Luis: wing of that party versus the more conservative wing of that party. Russell Payne: Okay, yeah, yeah Luis: Right. I Copy: Well, we're watching we're watching an implosion of that too. It's it's weird to watch that whole thing. They're biting at each other's tongues and stabbing each other in the back too. But they still fucking Luis: I mean but go ahead. Copy: have power. It's it's it's mind blowing. Russell Payne: Yeah, it is. Well, from watching Luis: Right, right. Every ever Russell Payne: this side, from watching from this side and things going on, it's it's worrying as well. And it's, you know, what's happening here is, and obviously, what happens over there don't affect us. Well, it does affect us, actually. Because when Trump wants to go to war with someone or start another war to solve another war, then ... our fuel prices go up. I'm paying for my car, I'm paying diesel now nearly £2 a litre, not a gallon. Luis: my goodness, I'm I and you know, I my heart goes out to that, but at the same time, I live in a country where we get mad about oil prices, but we don't get mad that fucking fourteen year old girls are being raped in ICE detention centers and coming up pregnant. Okay? And this is happening all the time. I I live in a country where what the fuck? I dragged the puzzle. I we we we live in a country where brown people are goddamn murdered at least once a week by ice in this country and nobody gives a flying fuck. Copy: Yeah, it's it's it's not any more white people. It hasn't been in a white person killed in a while. So it seems like all of that Russell Payne: Okay. Copy: media attention has fucking just Russell Payne: Okay, right, hence we're not hearing much of all that, because the last time we heard anything this side was when that poor girl got shot in the face in her car, you know? Luis: No, there's yeah, since then, like like okay, so I just saw and this is in Portland, guys. Actually, this is in Woodburn. I haven't posted the video yet, okay? But there were three white guys driving around. Guess who they were masquerading as? Copy: Nice. Luis: ICE officials. Guess what they were doing? They're pulling women over and fucking raping them. Russell Payne: Ho! Copy: I didn't hear about that. Luis: Yeah, like like I I I I I should have dropped it in the chat. It was this one I saw I caught it on Insta. Copy: Holy fell. Luis: Okay? But this is why why isn't this this doesn't matter because of the brown. But anyway, I'm really sorry, Russell. We are totally digressing away. Away. As Joe as Russell Payne: No, no, it's important stuff, innit? Luis: Joe Nods there, we are dig and let's get back to it. Let's get back to you and not our views on this, if you don't mind. So you guys fuck you guys. nail all the pieces of the band, right? Every everything's feeling good. What's one Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: of the favorite gigs it with with that with that lineup that you can remember? Your most memorable gig. Let's kind of reset. I'm sorry. Russell Payne: This, joe: So Russell Payne: you know, yeah, it's a mad one, right? Because every gig is really special anyway, you know? Because you go into a new place, you meet the new people. Some of the ones we've done in Greece have been pretty crazy, you know? They really know how to party, you know? We've done that. Copy: Yeah. Luis: They love their anti fascists there, yeah? Copy: Yes, they do. Russell Payne: don't they, don't they just, yeah, we played a gig in Athens and we played, it was an open-air gig in an agricultural university. and there were about four and a half, five thousand there. The stage was swimming in beer, cans being thrown everywhere and there were lighting fires in the crowd and they were like, what Copy: Ha ha ha. Russell Payne: the fuck was going Luis: Yeah. Russell Payne: on? Flares going off, it was like some crazy South American football match. It was just the maddest thing you ever seen, but beautiful as well, you know? And we'd done another one in Luis: Yeah, that sounds like a great time. Copy: That would be amazing. Russell Payne: Northern Greece, we played cat. place called Kav... Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki. And we played at a football stadium, Aris FC. And that was similar. The stage was set up facing the terracing. So it's like behind the goal, if you like. Behind us was the pitch. Again, the stage was swimming in the air. They were running down the terracing, jumping on the stage and sliding off onto the pitch over there. Luis: Ha ha ha ha. Russell Payne: We don't take instruments with us anymore. It's just too costly and because of Brexit it's just too difficult now. we always get friendly with the support actor, whoever's playing with us, and usually borrow guitars. So I borrowed this guitar off a friend, Zrakow, from Bulgaria, the band called Bit of Terror. So he lends me his guitar, he said, every now and again he may cut out, just give it a bang. And it started playing away. And I can't hear any guitar and I'm banging out of his guitar and he's pointing, no, no, Somebody had run past me and tripped over the white, the lead, and pulled the lead out so I had no lead in. So I'm Luis: Yeah. Russell Payne: playing away with no sound coming out of this thing and just chaos but fun, you know. Luis: Yeah. joe: I love that. Copy: Work you fucking bastard! Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had some fella come, joe: That's fucking amazing. Russell Payne: we're playing the gig, we're halfway through the gig and some fella just walks on stage and holds a bottle of beer to my mouth and it's like, like, give it a minute, like, you know, no, Luis: Okay. Russell Payne: no, you must have some. Pouring beer Copy: Mm-hmm. Russell Payne: all down my chops, you know. Luis: Yeah. Copy: Fuck. You gotta have joe: That's awesome. Russell Payne: But fun. Copy: it now! Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, it was like that, yeah. Copy: Sounds like something I would have been doing. Russell Payne: But we don't... They're all a bit special and it's difficult to... For me, one of stands out more than anything, I think, was when we played in the States and we'd done the matinee gig in the Mexican restaurant car park. Luis: I was just thinking about that video 'cause Daryl was there videotaping it, y'all. Yeah. It yeah. yeah. I Russell Payne: yeah, Daryl Lamont Luis: was just I was just wondering where that ranks and I 'cause I remember one of you guys posting that what were you telling me that there were little kids singing Skinhead Girl? Like Russell Payne: Yeah, there was this, lot of people from the Haight neighborhood turned up. It was a free gig. We wanted to play free and we wanted it for all ages. so like loads of families turned up with their children and I was a young brother and sister. They must have been like, I don't know, eight, nine years of age. But they knew the songs and they were up singing with us. And I was like, that was the power of music, you know? That was beautiful. So that's for me that stands out as I'll always remember that. Luis: Yeah, that video Copy: That's awesome. Luis: is awesome. Copy, do you have any questions? Copy: I mean, we've kind of touched on everything that I would want to be asking already. I mean I'm just enjoying the stories at this point 'cause again, fanboying the fuck out here. I'm I I mean I'm talking to fucking Russell Payne, you know, like how often does that happen? Luis: Okay, I'll ask a Jenny Woo inspired question. Okay. you've been here since the inception. How has Skinhead changed from the beginnings to the year of our Lord 2026? And will can we ever lose the silent in Skinhead? You know, 'cause here in this I don't know if you've heard that saying before, but there's a there's a saying here that skinhead is spelt with an and the is silent for misogyny. Russell Payne: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. It started off really good, good fun. Again, we're... were the innocence of youth, you know, and you don't see the nasty things. And it was great fun. And like, again, the music scene was great. A lot of my friends were punks, but it didn't matter, because we were punks anyway, but dressed as skinheads if you like, you know, because that was the scene we were into. Then it switched and it got a bit nasty. And it got to a stage where a lot of my mates in Grangetown didn't want to be skinheads anymore. And a lot of people got out of the scene totally because it was... I suppose they couldn't handle having the finger pointed at them all the time, you know? And it was just... And they just moved on to other things. So it was a bit of a struggle and when we took the stand that we did, we lost a lot of gigs then because one, we weren't getting gigs because we were a skinhead band and seemed to be right wing. Two, the only, and two, because the only skinhead bands that were getting gigs then were the right wingers. So we weren't gonna go down that route, you know? So it wasn't great. But then it started getting better and it's a lot. There's a lot of, we're playing gigs now, nowadays, and the youth coming through are very, they're very switched on, you know? They're more so when I was their age. And we got a great bunch of lads in South Wales and they turn up at all the gigs and... They're very politically switched on. They know what's right and wrong. And I think it is, I think it's getting good. But the other thing is now it's also because of the political parties like Reform, Restore, they're making racism normal again, you for a lot of people. So I have noticed going, you see at gigs, people will have a t-shirt of a band that were around in the 80s and a bit, you know, not quite right. And I don't know whether they think they're trying to be clever or something. But I've noticed a bit of that. But then that's more older generation, you know, not the youth. That's more people my age thinking they're trying to be clever. don't know. I think it's better. I think the youth have got it. They're a lot more switched on. think they're used coming through a much better, as in the misogyny thing. I don't know. Is that generally? Luis: Here Russell Payne: I don't know. Luis: we we we here in the States we don't see a lot of female fronted bands. We live in a Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: we we we live in a in a country where rape is pretty normal and Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: misogyny is pretty normal and Joe often makes the point that misogyny is a cornerstone of white supremacy. Joe? joe: I mean you just said it, right? So yeah, no, like we do see you just don't see a lot, especially in the skinhead scene, like you don't see a lot of women that are skinheads here or skin birds, you Russell Payne: Okay. joe: know what I mean? Like it's it's kind of a it's kind of a trip. Like there's a few, you know what I mean? There is definitely a few, but it's definitely not fucking commonplace here and Russell Payne: Okay. joe: I would say that, well, it's the time, you know what I mean? Like it's fucking twenty twenty-six. Like Skinhead isn't really as popular as it was in the eighties and nineties and shit like that. But even back then, like we just we didn't really see it much. You know, it's Russell Payne: Okay. joe: the United States is kind of a weird place. We've taken a bunch of weird or not weird, but we've taken a bunch of shit from other subcultures and left a bunch of stuff out. You know what I mean? It's I don't know, I don't know. It it is nice I will see when I do go to Europe to see women that are a part of the scene and I that doesn't mean that they're necessarily Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: treated well, but we just don't really see it much here. Russell Payne: Okay, well maybe it's a lot different here then because there are a lot of females involved, know, and the ones that I see, especially locally at gigs, they've been around for a while and they're pretty cool, you know, they're looked at as being pretty cool, part of the scene, you know, and they definitely are part of the scene because they, yeah, definitely. There's quite a few female fronted bands. again they're a really cool, really setting the world alight, you know. I mentioned earlier... Go on. Luis: We need to I I mean, no, it sounds like we need to do a better job just hearing these because we don't. Copy: Yeah. Luis: you know, P we spent a lot of time yesterday speaking with Jenny Wu and talking about how that woman has endured hate from a subculture that supposedly respects women and stands up for the oppressed and respects minorities and and migrants. And Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Luis: that woman has endured a lot from a subculture that s represents these ideal things. So Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Luis: it sounds like it's different here in the States, shittier. Like it everything else is shittier here in America. Okay. Russell Payne: Yeah. Copy: I I mean I I like to call it it's it's really like performative being a performative skinhead or a skin bird or whatever you want to call it in the scene. There's a lot of that here. It's it's it's very cosplaying, and the only reason I keep thinking about that is what Jenny Wu told us yesterday when to first time she saw skinheads, she saw, look at all those guys. cosplaying is old men. joe: Ha ha ha. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. joe: So I I have a question for you, Russell. Russell Payne: Okay. joe: with the skin ed scene and and as somebody who's been involved with it as long as you have. you know, you were talking about the kids being switched on and I think that's great. And you do have a a perspective that is outside of all of us because you travel all over the place and go meet kids all over the place. So What what do you think about the future of Skinhead? Like I I feel personally I'll d I'm not gonna get into my whole entire thoughts on it, but what I will say is that we've watched this scene get more inclusive over the years and I think that we can continue on with that. And I think that there's a lot of really cool shit that the youth is going to lead us into the future with. And I'm just curious on your take on that. Russell Payne: Yeah, same, Again, I can only speak for what I've seen and maybe locally it's good. They turn up at the gigs, they support the scene. They're politically correct. I think that, you know... Yeah, it's good here. Across Europe, most of the places are similar. You go to Spain, have kind of scene in France. But then you still got your... your right wing is there as well, you know, and they're usually very vociferous, aren't they, you know? They like to make a noise. joe: Mm-hmm. Russell Payne: But we just got to go back to what happened here in the 80s when it was getting really bad with the right wing and make them feel afraid again, you know? joe: I agree a hundred percent. Luis: yeah. Copy: One hundred Russell Payne: Because they can't begin away with this bullying, nasty attitude that goes along with that right wing thing. Copy: You don't the only way to outbully a bully is to be that bully. Luis: Y you know, unfortunately Russell Payne: Yeah Luis: un unfortunately though, in America that's not it's not the outlook and and y'all know what I'm talking about, right? More people will take a picture of a bonehead and put it on the interweb and expect other people to go clean it up rather than to go confront that person, maybe catch some lumps, but you do the right thing. joe: It's been that way. It's been Copy: Yeah. joe: that way forever though, dude. And so like what I will say, like I'm not gonna Luis: That's what I'm saying, dude. joe: necessarily condone it, right? But it has been that way forever. And one of the big things here that I will say that fucking freaks people out. Cause like I've had these conversations with people, because I've gotten those calls and those texts for the 30 years that I've been involved with this. You know Copy: Yeah. joe: what I mean? Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: one of the big things here is that you know, a lot of these places in Europe, they're not necessarily worried about walking up to somebody and getting shot in the fucking face. Copy: Yeah. joe: You know what I mean? So there is there is a thing there and like I Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. joe: g yeah, right? And I mean I understand I understand where you're coming from and I I say that shit all the time. Go deal with it. You know what I mean? Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: but at the same point, like these people who are hitting us up, Luis, aren't necessarily people who are scrappers and have dedicated their life to fucking rooting this shit out. You know what I mean? So like I I understand the sentiment and I have definitely shared it numerous times, but it's not for everybody, you know what I mean? Copy: Yeah. joe: So that's where I try to I try to tell myself, like, okay, cool, they're hitting me up for a fucking reason, right? Like let's let's look into why that is. You know what I mean? All right, cool, let's fucking, you know, do something about it, whatever. so like I mean I I I get I I get where you're coming from, but there is that that exception to it. You know what I mean? So like Luis: I mean, I think yeah, y right, because that whole thing here in the States is what? We are used continuously, the skinhead specifically, by the progressive left, by those liberals, by those that think they're into leftist alternative politics, right? Because we're used to coming take care of whatever we gotta take care of, and then what? We are instantly ostracized and shit upon. joe: Cast aside. Yeah. Russell Payne: yay. joe: So that's where like that whole entire for for me personally, that's where that crucified fucking skinhead comes into play, right? Like, I'm not Copy: Yeah. joe: fucking liked. You're gonna fucking crucify everything that I believe in, everything that I do, when it doesn't align with your ultimate mission or what you want to get done. But as soon as you need some sort of brute force, you call and we're buddies then. And then as soon as that Copy: Yeah. joe: fucking shit's over, you're back to being a get the fuck out of here, you weirdo. You're too fucking loud, you're too violent, you're too this, you're too that. And that it is what it is. That's part of the fuck. Luis: Toxic masculinity. joe: Word. It's part, it's part of the life. And that's where I also say, like I said earlier, I always tell people, like, I'm a fucking piece of shit. I absolutely Copy: Yeah. joe: buy into that toxic masculinity shit, but I try to use it in a way that makes the lives of the fucking people around me better, right? Like I try to not Copy: Yeah. joe: be a fucking a super Russell Payne: Thank joe: cunt about it and be, okay, cool. So I'm going to use the fact that I'm a fucking moose. and you know and have a proclivity towards violence to make sure that you know this fucking queer youth over here or this fucking young woman over here or this trans kid over here doesn't have to endure the violence from this fuck face that's coming forward, right? And by all means cast me aside afterwards because I'm not doing it Russell Payne: Yeah. Copy: One hundred. joe: for fucking accolades. I'm doing it because in my mind it's what I believe is right. So yeah. Russell Payne: Yeah. It's because it's right to do, yeah. Luis: Yeah. You know, Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: all I was gonna say was copy, that would have been a perfect time for you to use that goddamn echo and go toxic masculinity. Right. Okay. Russell Payne: Ha joe: Ha ha ha ha. Copy: well here, I'll do it now. Toxic masculinity Luis: There we go. There we go. Russell Payne: Oi oi! joe: There you go. so Russell, being Copy: There you go. joe: that we were talking about what what you know, this rise of the of the right and you know, people needing to step up and make you know, known, hey, we gotta make you afraid again. This ain't it. We can all talk about the similarities of what was happening back then and what's happening now, but for the three of us, it's talking about read history, right? Like 'cause I I wasn't I wasn't there. You were there. What's the s Russell Payne: Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. joe: what are the similarities that you see? And what gives you what like ultimately like so the similarities that you see I would say and then and then what gives you hope that we're gonna come out on top? Russell Payne: The similarities with here now at the moment, politically, with Reform, Restore, Restore were reformed but reform weren't racist enough so they made their own group called Restore which is shocking in its own thing. Anyway. What these guys have done is they've made racism fairly normal. I'm constantly going onto social media and seeing people posting racist stuff in their own name. They're not even hiding the fact that they... It's crazy, you know, they think it's okay to be doing that. We've had a few people locked up recently. One big name, he was... stopped the boats, you know, they stopped the boats coming across the channel and yeah, yeah. Luis: That guy, yeah, I heard I heard about that guy. Russell Payne: And he went, he, see there was a boat in the, in the channel, nobody on it. And then an RNLI Royal Navy life, the lifeboat crew, you know, they go out to save people at sea. It's a charity. There was one of these guys on there, I think he was French, but this fella, this, He started slashing the boat and filming himself doing it, you for his little channel. But now he's been locked up. He pled not guilty, they put him in... Reminded him in custody. So he's locked up at the moment to appear in court. In the meantime, they've set up GoFundMe pages for him. So all these idiots who think that he's right will be giving their money they can't afford to this clown who's... who's going to be released because he'll probably plead guilty next time and he'll get a fine or whatever and he'll walk away with the cash that these people had paid him with for him, you know. Copy: Sort of like the I don't know if you've heard about the guy here, his name's Chud the Builder. And he would go around to black people and actively drop racial slurs at And then anytime he would get confronted, he'd pull his fucking gun out like a little pussy. And a lot of Russell Payne: Really? Okay. joe: Mm-hmm. Copy: people he got arrested, he shot somebody, so he's got an attempted murder. People Russell Payne: Okay. Copy: set up a fucking GoFundMe for this clown. And he's out on bail right Luis: There was a lady Copy: now. Luis: there was a lady in Minneapolis who called a little Somali child the N word. The child was two Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: years old, Russell. Sh okay. That joe: Five. Luis: lady got or five. That lady got like a million dollars in GoFundMe. joe: In the GoFundMe, yeah. Yeah. But but Copy: Yeah. Yeah, people people are disgusting here. Russell Payne: really? Okay. Luis: Yeah. A million dollars. joe: but all right, so like as much as I will bitch about the United States as anybody else, like let's let Russell finish what his story was Copy: Yeah, sorry. joe: there. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, so I'm just hoping now that these guys are going to get found out. The Reform Party is not actually a party, it's a limited company and they're getting donations from crypto billionaires to push their, to make it easier for them to sell their cryptocurrency. in the UK. Farage had a five million pound bung. He said it was a gift. A gift is a bottle of wine, innit, you know? Anyway, five million pound gift. Yeah. Luis: million dollar pound gift. Jesus. If any if anybody listening joe: Yeah. Luis: wants to give me five million dollars or five million pound as a gift, DM me. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm open to that too. Copy: Yeah. All of us, I think all of us joe: Absolutely. Copy: would love to have that five. Russell Payne: But then the best pad, recently, around three weeks ago, his pad, was given two other gifts of, I think it was 35 million pounds each Copy: Jesus Christ. Russell Payne: from crypto billionaires wanting to be able to push their crypto bullshit on the people, you know? Copy: How's the data center thing over there? Is it as similar to like it is here? Russell Payne: Say again? Luis: Copy, talk up louder. Yeah. Copy: The the data the data center issues, like are they s are they having the same kind of issues that they are here where they're just wanting to plop those fuckers everywhere? Russell Payne: Yeah, similar, similar. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, joe: Word. Russell Payne: I'm just hoping that people will see through this party. you've got another fellow called Richard Tice who's involved with RIFBORN. He's a millionaire. He no longer lives in the UK. He lives in Dubai. So how is he going to run the country from Dubai? He lives in Dubai because he don't want to pay the taxes in this country. joe: It's wild to me to watch people to watch them gain so much support, right? When you do have people that are moving out of the country to not pay taxes and and and put in Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: their bit to help. Like I said earlier, where they, we hate the Tories, so we're gonna go vote for a bunch of ex-Tories that are now reformed. And then you Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. joe: look at their platform, like it's so I you guys might not know, like as far as copying Luis, much about Nigel Farage, but like I've I've done my I've done my due Luis: I I know this much. joe: diligence, right? especially when I was looking at immigrants. And it's wild to me that it he is like a Donald Trump, with an accent. True. Russell Payne: He's a Trump fanboy, isn't he? Yeah. joe: Absolutely. But it's wild to Copy: Yeah. joe: me. And when I say that, I say that because this dude is running around talking about how it's, you know, if people are bilingual, that's a bad thing. That's taking away Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: from our culture here in fucking Great Britain. if people are fucking, you know, marrying immigrants to bring them in, that's a bad thing. This dude's married to a fucking French immigrant and both of his children's first language were French. Russell Payne: and he has a German passport or a Belgian, German or Belgian passport. Yeah, work that one out. joe: Right? Yeah, exact Exactly. Copy: Yeah. joe: So it's just it's the parallels between this fucking regime here are wild to me because it's the same shit that Donald Trump does, right? Like, you can't be doing this and all birthright citizenship and all fucking these people are just Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: opening the floodgates and bringing people in and getting married to fucking do, you know, this that and the other. The homeboy's married to a fucking immigrant and it you know, little sorts of birthright fucking citizenship. It's wild. But Copy: Yeah, but what is it? He's had th three ha three male order brides, you know, he's up to three or four. joe: word, but where I'm I'm going out with that is that Russell Payne: yeah, yeah. joe: it's wild to see the people in the UK get bamboozled essentially by this Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. And he's also said many times he wants to bring in a US style insurance based healthcare system. No, he does. Yeah, no, we don't. Luis: No you don't. No you don't. No you don't. joe: Yeah, now that that's what he said. Copy: dear God, don't know. joe: He wants to Luis: No. joe: do away with the NHS, do that, he wants to set up yeah, detention centers across the Russell Payne: He wants to sell it all off. Luis: You but joe: UK that house twenty eight thousand people in an I style agency that deports like three hundred thousand people per year. Yeah. Russell Payne: You want, yeah, ice as well, you want to see it. Luis: I I mean, here's the thing. Forgive me for for being a pessimist again, but like Joe and I were talking about this the other day, right? That we see Donald Trump here in the United States. his numbers are at an all-time low, right? Like even amongst his Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: own people, like historically low numbers for a president to have. But Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: but here's the thing: the one thing that he has in his back pocket to restore his base is hatred of us. Personally, hatred of Those that define themselves as anti-fascist, right? And Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Luis: and Joe copying myself, we all tend to believe that we are on the verge of a Reichstag incident here in the United States, right? That this election, from their point of view, cannot be allowed to go through, right? What better way than to stage a false flag incident, maybe election day, maybe right before Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Luis: election day? And blame it on anti-fascists because we've seen anti-fascists get ridiculously inhumane sentences, 50 and 100 years. One person, I don't I don't know if you heard that, joe: Have you seen that, Russell? Luis: Russell. That that Russell Payne: No, no, no. Luis: so so there was an incident in a place called Prairie Land. There was a noise demonstration there. There's an ice center there, okay? Any fascists Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: went there to have it. One man was in the woods with with a gun, okay? And Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: he and he saw an ice officer draw his weapon. joe: No, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you real quick because you're giving out false you're not it's wrong information. It wasn't a nice officer, it was a local cop. Luis: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. All right. Local cop. My bad. joe: that was drawn down on a protester in a position like they were going to shoot, right? So this person who Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: So joe: was in the wood line with the rifle was a veteran and recognizes this and he fired a warning shot. The warning shot ricocheted it hit the officer in the arm. Right? Total totally fine. He got sentenced to a hundred years in Russell Payne: Okay. Yeah. Luis: So joe: federal prison Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: Hi hi hi hi his his affinity joe: for that. Then Luis: group, members in his affinity group, one of took magazines, zines, not even magazines, zines, joe: Yeah. Luis: out of his home and took them to another location. That person got either thirty or fifty years. Thirty years. joe: Thirty thirty year he got thirty years. Thirty years in prison for taking fucking zines out of his house and fucking throwing in the trash. Luis: There are current there are currently 15 anti-fascists in Minneapolis that are under indictment right now and their trial is about to start soon. So, that I guess that was my point, y'all, was that like even though we joke about the ridiculousness of these people and the like their ludicrousness, is that they still are a very real threat to to all of us. Right. Right? And and if this happens here. As you said, how goes the US goes the UK, right? So if this Russell Payne: Yeah Luis: could happen here, this could happen there for you guys as well. Copy: It's a fucking domino effect. Russell Payne: Yeah, and you know, the worrying thing is if someone like that could get into power here, then anyone that opposed that person in the past, you know, we've seen this happening in, it happens in Russia, it's happened in Germany in the past, the 30s, 40s, people being rounded up and locked away, you know. Luis: Russell, I don't say this with any pride at all, but my government, my regime has identified me as one of the founders of American anti-fascism and has come out publicly and said so. Okay, so here's Russell Payne: Okay. Luis: the thing. Do you remember back in last year when they had their big round table on Antifa? Right? Russell Payne: Okay, yeah, yeah. Luis: Okay, and they had all their reporters there. Andy know, and Andy No hates me and has a heart on for me, and I'm in the first place Paragraph of his book, everything. So Christy Gnome says, She's at the time Secretary of ICE or whatever the fuck she was. She comes out and she says, Copy: Homeland. Luis: We've arrested the founding, the founder of Antifa's ex-girlfriend. Do you remember that? That's my ex-girlfriend. She's specifically talking about. So that's me. Russell Payne: Okay, yeah, yeah, Okay. joe: Yeah. Russell Payne: man. Copy: Yeah. Luis: But but Russell Payne: So you're public enemy number one, almost. Luis: It depending joe: Yeah. Luis: on the circles. but again, it's it's not anything, ooh, that's awesome as you know, or something that like I'm I mean, I'm low key proud about it, right? But at the same time, like like amongst us, I'm proud about it. But you know, Copy: Right. Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: it it does it makes life difficult for not only myself Russell Payne: Yeah Luis: but my friends. Like my best friend Schlosser, his kid can't hang out with my kid because of because of the the baby's mama. Russell Payne: Okay. man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Luis: Yeah, you know, so makes life difficult for all of us. That that that's all I was saying, guys. Sorry. Copy: I was gonna say, you know, to add on to that with, you know, the the whole calling Antifa a even ideally bad, my grandfather would roll over in his fucking grave because the biggest fucking Antifa party was fucking D-Day for Christ's sake. Russell Payne: Yeah, exactly, exactly. My father went to sea at 14 years of age. So, he was Luis: Fourteen. Russell Payne: 14. He tried to join up with the Navy here, but they said come back when you're 18. So he realized he could join a Norwegian ship. So he ran away and joined a Norwegian ship and was doing the Atlantic convoys at 14. Got 12 people, no, twice. Twice, Copy: wow. Luis: Holy shit. Russell Payne: once just outside New York, spent two months in New York and then once down in Montevideo. joe: That's fucking gnarly. Copy: That's badass. Russell Payne: So, hold on to the Luis: Four Russell Payne: seat. Luis: gene. Russell Payne: But yeah, this is, our parents and grandparents were fighting this kind of thing and now to think this kind of thing is mainstreaming, our countries or wanting to run our countries, know? Wild, isn't it? joe: Yeah, you know, Copy: Well that's the the that's where I'm honestly joe: it is wild. Copy: go ahead, Joe, sorry. joe: No, no, go ahead, man. Copy: I was just gonna say it it it I was raised with the ideals based that fascism was bad. I watched all the fucking movies growing up, all the World War Russell Payne: Yeah Copy: II movies, you know, stomping out Jerry and fucking all that. And now we're watching it just be re-idolized. All those fucking ideals have come back and it it it's concerning in like a major way because what is that leaving for our kids? I know, you know, we're parents, so it's like fuck, what are we what are we giving our children or getting them into and it it's I don't know, it's a wild state of affairs that I never thought I would ever fucking see in this country or even in the world. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Do you know, a lot of these people now who are thinking that this is the right way to go, they're looking at people who are anti-fascist and saying that these are the nasty guys, you know. And when you're just standing up for people... maybe need a bit of help, you joe: Yeah. Russell Payne: And a lot of these people have got real bad skeletons in their closets, know? White-feeters and... is the joe: there's this bloke that got arrested in Scotland. it was a few months ago, and he was always at those rallies. He was organizing the rallies and his name is escaping me. I'm trying to think of it. and I cannot, but he was Russell Payne: Okay. joe: arrested in in fuck. Dude, my brain is not working. I know so he led a b he he led a big march in Aberdeen. and Russell Payne: Okay. joe: there was that incident up there where people went and spray painted the N-word on a bunch of the walls and stuff like that. You know what I mean? And then Russell Payne: Okay. Yeah. joe: he had a big thing in Falkirk. and then he was arrested after the one in Falkirk and his whole his whole entire thing was that, you know, these the the boat the people on the boats are coming and they're, you know, raping women and they're they're they don't share our our way of life and our culture. And then he was arrested for rape and having child pornography on his computer. Russell Payne: Yeah! joe: And it was fuck I was like, man, like it's I don't know, it seems like all these fools that come out and they protest so hard against basic human rights because these people are doing this, that, and the other, even though the numbers say otherwise. It Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: like you said, there's always these weird skeletons in their closet where it comes out and it's like, dude, that I mean, you're trying to make everybody look over there so they don't see your fuck shit, right? Copy: Right. Russell Payne: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Luis: The left is full the American left is full of fuckwatch that are exactly the same though, right? Like we Copy: Yeah. Luis: all know where to find the dirt bag joe: Yeah. Luis: fucking dudes in any punk rock self help group in the United States. That's where that's where joe: Yeah. Word. Luis: they're all lurking. Right. Copy: Well, I it there's shitty people in every fucking scene, no matter where you go, in every walk of life, there's gonna be really, really shitty people. And you know, I think for me at least is like I try with the scene now, at least the the times that I'm out and about, I wanna try to vet people, you know, find out about these people before letting Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Copy: them into the scene. That's it's not just a scene, it's a fucking lifestyle. And we should Russell Payne: Yeah Copy: be like making sure that you're a quality person 'cause the last thing I wanna have is like if I go to the bathroom and my lady's standing there, the last thing I wanna deal with having in my thought is, is she safe with this person? Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot wrong in there. joe: It is. There is a lot fucking wrong right now. But you know, that's the thing, is all we can do is keep up the fight and and try like I said earlier, try to make a better world for the future generation. You know what I mean? And that's the cool thing that I love about fucking the skinhead subculture is that there's so many people who are willing to put themselves on that you know. front line, so to speak, and stand up against this shit. And that's what I was saying. Like I feel like a lot of the youth on a worldwide thing, are really gonna fucking make some dope changes, you know what I mean? And as an older man now involved in this scene, I think that it's our place to you know, kind of remind of how things were when we were younger and let them take Russell Payne: Yeah joe: the fucking reins and just be there for support. You know, what do you what Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: do you need my old ass to do? Russell Payne: Yeah, and don't make them same mistakes. Yeah, learn by other people's, joe: Word. Yeah. Heck yeah. So Copy: Yeah, some I've Russell Payne: And you said something Copy: I've Russell Payne: last time about, Luis, about, there's not much you can do worldwide, but you can maybe do something in your local community, you know? Luis: Absolutely. Abs Joe Joe says it often that if we all do a little, a lot gets done. Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: And and that's I think that's the message that we repeatedly try to get across to everyone. Right. make a change in your neighborhood, in your block, not not necessarily hit try to hit those that worldwide stage, right? Because we've seen we've even seen it here recently that People that have gained a little bit of internet notoriety all of a sudden are launching presidential campaigns. Russell Payne: Okay, yeah, yeah. Luis: Right? rather than than making a Russell Payne: Yeah. Luis: a change in your community, where where it's tangible, right? Russell Payne: Yeah, definitely, yeah. joe: I've got I've got one more question for you, Russell, that I'd like to ask. If you could go back right now and have like an hour-long conversation with fucking eighteen or like twenty-year-old Russell Payne, what would you say? And I the reason why I'm asking this is because I feel like it's pertinent and it's advice to the youth of today. You know what I mean? Luis: I'd also like to point out that's a great wording of that question, sir. Russell Payne: Right, it's a difficult one, isn't it? I think I would like to have been more political earlier, you know. I had no interest. I remember when it was time to vote and for the first time. And my old man, my father said, come on, let's go down to the polling station. And I said, I'm not voting. He said, what do mean you're not voting? I said, they're all the same. They're all thinking of all their pockets. So he said, you will vote if I got a dragon you don't have to vote. And then he got a bit... The reason why you have to vote, is there are still people in the world now that can't vote. They haven't got a choice to vote. There women in the world that can't vote because it's illegal for them to vote. So you can make a little difference here if you do it. And I wish I'd been more... I think schools ought to do more. They're on about here now. Andy Burnham, the new leader here, about making a compulsory vote, which is fine. But people have to know about politics. So then you have to teach politics in school. Because it's unfair to have some kid coming out of school and saying, right, here's your polling card. You've to go and vote for somebody if they have no idea. It'll just, the votes will be spoiled or whatever. But that's, my thing is, I wish I'd been a bit more political then, or had an idea, you know? joe: Absolutely. I love that answer, you know. So one of the things that I will say that I see amongst a lot of the youth, so listen up, youngins, is that voting just like you said in your youth, like they're all the same. They're all worried about their shit. their pocketbooks and and furthering their agenda. And I don't disagree with that necessarily. but at the same point I think that As an anti fascist, we have to use every tool In our fucking arsenal to oppose fascism, and voting is one way where we can have a direct impact in that. Russell Payne: Yeah. Yeah. joe: So many people think of voting, you have to vote for this guy or this guy, right? it's it's a binary thing. In the United States, it's fairly binary, but you don't have to vote for one or the other, right? You can you can write people in. There's all sorts of third-party candidates. Find somebody that you can support and get behind them. You know what I mean? If nothing Russell Payne: Yeah. Yeah. joe: else, it shows that people are. Becoming fucking active, and when people become active, then they can start demanding change. And Russell Payne: Yeah. And think about, if you're gonna vote for someone, think of always gonna do something for you. You know? joe: Word. No, absolutely. And you know, some something for you, but aside from just something for you, something that isn't going to fuck everybody else over, right? So like I say that so a lot of people, a lot of leftists, they just sat this last election out, in the United States for for president, right? And I understand the reasoning for it and I can't fault them for that. where, you know, Kamala Harris was asked directly, Will you take a hardline stance against the genocide in Palestine? Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: And demand a ceasefire with Israel. And her response was, Do you wanna keep talking about this or do you wanna win? And that was the wrong fucking answer, right? So Russell Payne: Okay. Yeah. Copy: Yeah. joe: what ended up happening is a lot of people just sat out and didn't fucking vote. So the overall Russell Payne: Okay. joe: election was like over twenty million votes less than the election in 2020. Yes, that were Russell Payne: really? joe: overall, right? So that's hold on Louise, that let me just finish Luis: Overall. Yeah. joe: this thought. So where I'm going at with that is like, okay, cool, don't go vote for her. Absolutely I wouldn't either after that. Right. I Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: I I I don't blame you for that, but still show up and make your fucking voice heard within the system. Because like I said, even though you may fucking consider yourself living outside of the system as anti-fascist, if you're a responsible fucking person that actually wants to try to make change and not just some weird accelerationist who fucking has this fantasy of revolution and burning everything down, because that's not gonna work. You need to use every tool in your fucking arsenal. I'm just gonna talk in circles, I guess, and repeat myself. And voting is one way where you can do that, and it doesn't have to be for the fucking binary. Go right fucking somebody and go right in fucking the organizer, the person that's fucking doing good in your community. This is who I want running the fucking show. You know what I mean? And Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, big time. Yeah. Copy: And stop following your fucking family's goddamn line of voting. joe: Yes, and the one other thing that I wanna point out is I don't know how it is in the UK when it comes to voting or anywhere else, but in the United States one of the things that we do see is that people show up and they fucking show out kind of. for the presidential election and that's pretty much it, right? So local elections Russell Payne: Okay. joe: go by the fucking wayside. And as a matter of fact, I can say I know that happens in the UK too because I've watched it for quite some time when people are voting for fucking local seats and you know MPs and all this kind of shit. But you know so where I where copy and I live at it's a small area, right? It is a small area. And in our local elections, the last one, there was I think it was a a 12% percent turnout of voters. and so Russell Payne: okay. joe: your local elections are places where you can make a fucking change. And most of the time you're not voting Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: on people, you're voting on measures and you're voting on things Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: and where the fucking public monies should go to help the fucking community. So show up for that shit. Copy: Yeah, absolutely. Russell Payne: Definitely, yeah. Well, here we've got the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish governments have been devolved. we have certain powers now that we can, certain things that we can do that we don't have to, you know, outside of Westminster, if you like. And a lot of it is good. Things like we get free prescriptions in Wales, you know. So if you've got an illness, anything, even if it's aspirins that you would go down to the local ASDA Walmart and pay a couple of pennies for, you can get this kind of thing free, you know? It's a big help, you know? Luis: Is there a re is there a referendum to leave the U UK in Wales? Russell Payne: There has been talk of it there's been talk of it again lately. I was never... won for that until Brexit happened. And after Brexit, I just feel that I lost a bit of faith in... human nature if you like. can joe: What? Russell Payne: be hoodwinked into voting for anything if they want to believe something, you know. And I thought since Copy: Some magician slide a hand. Russell Payne: then that I would vote, if I thought Wales would get back into Europe, I would have voted for independence. And I know Scotland is there, there's a lot of people in Scotland for independence. So, I don't know. joe: There is, but there's kind of the the interesting thing there with that too, right? Is so tha there's a lot of people in in the north of Ireland right now too that are fucking pushing for, you know, reunification with Ireland. But Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: there is always the thing there where Westminster has to approve the vote. Russell Payne: I know. Copy: Yeah. joe: Which makes Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: and Westminster's like, nah, we ain't doing that, you know. It's I think Scotland Russell Payne: Yeah joe: I think Scotland fucked up years ago. It was even though it was pre and it was pre Brexit where they voted on independence and they voted it down. Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: you know, but it'll be interesting to see what happens because I know there's definitely been a lot of chatter about it. and it's funny because there's so many people even that are not for independence. Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. joe: That are super against Brexit, though. And they're like Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. joe: they're like, yeah, but we don't want to leave, and we're just wanna vote in the people who are all about Brexit now. You know, it's fuck it's just fucking Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. joe: weird to me. And one of the things that's interesting, I want your take on this, right? So this is the way that I see it, I guess, as an outsider that just reads it, is that Brexit. So I the the big the big fucking complaint amongst the right right now in the UK is the boats. Russell Payne: Yeah, stop the votes. joe: Stop the boats. Brexit took the Russell Payne: I assume. joe: UK out of the EU, which makes the fucking be Russell Payne: The Dublin Agreement, yeah, which was the Dublin Agreement, which has now made it easier for people to come in on boats. So there more people coming in on boats after Brexit because we're no longer part of the Dublin Agreement. joe: Mm-hmm. Russell Payne: Because of Farage and his little gang that said we want Brexit and we want to take control. We've got less control now than we did then. joe: word. That's what I was trying to get at right there with a Dublin agreement, right? And then it also put it to where, you know, I know throughout the rest of the EU there's you know, people will come in in as refugees and they'll get, you know, shipped around different parts of the EU to try to help not put all of the financial burden onto one country and the UK can no longer do that. Russell Payne: No, no, because we're not part of the gang anymore, you know. the other thing, joe: Exactly. It's interesting. Russell Payne: people here, Farage and his gang are saying we take all these people in. Germany takes a lot of people in. France, a lot of countries are taking people in. And people say, why do they want to come in? Well, maybe this country colonized their country at some stage, you know. They feel... Copy: Yeah. Russell Payne: you know, we'd gone and taken everything that was worth anything out of it and then dumped the place, you know. Maybe they feel a bit of an affinity with that. Maybe they've got family that are here somewhere. But regardless of that, They go on about joe: So that's one sorry, go ahead. Russell Payne: immigration and illegal immigration. It's not illegal to be an immigrant, is it? It's not illegal to seek refuge if you're fleeing a war-torn situation or even if you just want to be a social migrant and a better life for your family. Is that a problem? joe: So there's a thing with the UK where I I don't think a lot of people understand what it takes to actually immigrate to the UK as a social migrant, Copy: It's a bitch. joe: as a motherfucker. But aside from all that, that's one of the things that I always push to people, you hit it there with the fucking colonization thing, right? Where if you Russell Payne: Yay. joe: want to fucking solve what you view as a problem with immigration, Russell Payne: Yeah. joe: which I don't necessarily view as a problem. It doesn't sound like a lot of you know, there's a lot of people who don't view it as a problem. but for those who do view it as a fucking problem, if you want to solve Solve that, maybe stop supporting imperialistic endeavors from all of our countries going in and stripping people of the resources or going in and starting a war for whatever the fuck it may be, and creating Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah, it's still going on. Yeah, same thing. joe: hostile environments that make people need to flee their home and fucking show up somewhere else, right? Like, Russell Payne: Yeah, yeah. Copy: Yeah, exactly. joe: yeah. Copy: I mean we only had to deal with that for twenty years. Russell Payne: And these poor people have... Yeah. You know, some of these people have travelled thousands of miles, you know, and they're joe: With nothing. Copy: And Russell Payne: willing to put their child onto a little blow-up dinghy to sail across a dangerous sea, you know. Sad, isn't it? joe: Yeah. Luis: I hate to say Copy: Yeah, those conditions that they're willing to put I was gonna say Luis: it, but here in America go ahead, copy. Russell Payne: Yeah Copy: the conditions that these people are putting themselves in to come here and I I just it's mind blowing that people lack in any basic human empathy. Luis: It's okay. Because here in the States, quite soon the American famine will be upon us, okay? And this will be a direct result on this regime's immigration policy, period. Okay? Like like Americans joe: Yeah. Luis: will not be able to feed themselves. You little fucking vegans that support fucking ice are gonna be fucked Copy: Ha ha ha. Luis: real goddamn soon. Okay? Because I'm gonna be eating you guys when I sit in a camp. But anyway, Russell Payne: Ha. Ha. joe: Ha ha ha Copy: my god, Jesus Christ Luis: now with that being said, we are at the 90 minute mark. Russell, thank you so much for being here. I hope you come back again soon. And and do you wanna Russell Payne: My pleasure. Yeah, definitely will. Luis: do you wanna let everybody know your coming gigs? Cause we do actually have European listeners. Russell Payne: yeah, yeah, just open this up a sec. Right, we got December the 12th, first one, October the 8th, Pencoed Wales. I'll be on with my bed that night. December the 12th, Rome, Italy. December the 19th, Cardiff Food Bank Charity. That's gonna be a real good one. I think we raised around 1,500 quid last December. It really cool show. Lovely people turned up. A few bands, our good friends Hurt in Germs will be playing. And probably The Resurrected, another good band. The drummer from The Resurrected is gonna be helping us. He's one of my oldest friends in the Cardiff punk scene, Ed, his name is. He's played with Demented Argo. Yeah, he's played with Icons of Filth. He's done CBGBs with Icons of Filth. And I don't know if you're aware that when we started, we used to practice in my parents' house in Grangetown. It's a three-story house. The top floor was... a massive room that went right across the house, you And that was our practice studio. So, The Oppressed, an OE Skinhead band, The Oppressed, and an Anarchist punk band, Icons of Filth, or Atomic Filth as they were known, would practice there together. That was amazing. Right, back to the gigs. Into next year. February 25th, Bristol, England. February the 26th, Newport Wales, the 27th London. All these gigs were playing with a band from Chile called Lumpanoi. They're Luis: Yeah. Russell Payne: coming over to the UK, so we're gonna be showing them a little bit of Welsh hospitality. Are they really? cool. Luis: They're good boys. I like them. Yeah, I I like them. I I chatted a little bit with them on Facebook. Russell Payne: cool, say hello from me anyway. Luis: Absolutely. They better be listening to this. Russell Payne: And then we... Copy: No shit. Russell Payne: yeah. Right, then we're going on to April the 10th, Madrid. April the 24th, Milan. I'll have to wear my fancy gear for that one. And Luis: Ha ha ha. Russell Payne: then we go July the 17th, Poland. And then the last one for the time being, all we got on the list is back to Newport in South Wales. And Newport is... They got a real cool scene in Newport. There used to be a place there called TJs, right? And anyone who was anyone who were coming from the states, the punk bands going back 30 odd years ago, they would all play TJs in Newport because it was just the place to play. Now there's a place, go on. But now there's Luis: That makes me go ahead. I'm sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. Russell Payne: a place called The Cab in Newport. and they're doing a similar thing. They got a good, like a bit of a hardcore thing going on there. And anyone punky playing in the area will play at the cab. we do a lot with Joe in the cab and they got a, it was a disused shop that they'd taken over. So through the week they have little art workshops and they teach people how to do things like growing tomatoes or whatever, know, little useful tips. Copy: That's red. Russell Payne: And then on the weekends, all of that goes out and the stage comes up and it's hardcore punk rock. Luis: That makes me happy that there's a town called Newport with a good scene. Because the only town I know called Newport in my state is a rednik hellhole from what I hear. It's a nightmare. It it it it it so it makes me happy. Russell Payne: okay. Copy: Yeah, it is. Well, before we go, real quick, I have to do a shout-out. My friend has been asking me to do this for a long time since I've been getting on here. So now I remembered. What's up? Don Juan Delanucch. Jesus, now you'll leave me alone about this. Russell Payne: what's up? Luis: Watch out. Right, you guys have been listening to us talk with Russell Payne, the great guitarist from the great band The Oppress. We're getting ready to get out of here. Before we go, you guys should head over to BMGportland dot com. Get yourself a copy of my newest book, How the Anti Fascist Saved Christmas. Five dollars is going to a queer indigenous youth fund and see what happens when Donald Trump decides to put Santa Claus Russell Payne: Huh? Luis: In a cage. joe: Not Donald Trump, the evil wizard, bro. Luis: yeah. Here, Copy: He is the evil wizard. Luis: wait. Russell Payne: Ugh. Luis: this this is this is our Donald Trump. Copy: He has is wizard, but Russell Payne: Ha! Luis: This is the evil wizard that is is is elected. and Russell, I will get at you after this and we'll make sure to get you guys some for the food drive that you guys can give out there. thank you guys for being here. Russell Payne: Nice one. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr. That's Welsh for thank you. Luis: thank you. gracias. That's Spanish for thank you. Copy: Yeah. Russell Payne: denada. Luis: Okay, so you guys have been listening to us. listen again next week when we're gonna have Lynn from Bad Cop Bad Cop. and yeah, fuck off. joe: Yeah, I wanna say to Copy: Yeah, eat a dick. joe: Gratzi Salamatin Shukran. That's thank you in fucking Italian Arabic and Tagalog. Alright, cool. Russell, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure, mate. Talk to you guys next week. Luis: Cool. Russell Payne: good guys, nice one. Thank you. Same. Yeah. Copy: Cheers.