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How stablecoins are reshaping merchant payments | Lydian · The White Papers

• 0:00
  We're back at Token 2049 for
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  another lovely conversation.
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  Now I'm joined by Nick from Lydian.
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  Yeah, I mean, I always love chatting
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  with fellow New Yorkers, so thank
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  you for taking the time.
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  Unfortunately, I had to be halfway
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  around the world, but still
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  nonetheless, very excited about this
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  one. Thank you for joining us.
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  Thank you having me.
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  Yeah, not the most efficient
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  way to get together, but
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  I'm glad we made it happen.
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  Exactly.
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  And maybe start for those who don't
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  know, maybe talk a little about you,
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  your background, Lydian, and then
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  we'll dive into all the fun
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  stablecoin cards,
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  agentic payments, and just
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  stablecoins in general.
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  So my background
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  has been in fintech
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  really since I
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  got out of university,
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  went to work for a bank,
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  covering financial institutions,
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  fintec firms.
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  From there, transitioned
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  to more of an investing role was at
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  a VC firm, investing
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  mostly in fintech.
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  And, you know, back when I
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  started, crypto still
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  existed within that kind of fintek
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  category.
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  So we invested in a number of
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  fintech businesses, obviously,
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  but also crypto and
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  Web3 adjacent businesses.
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  Through that was able to
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  meet Carl, who's the CEO of
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  Lydian.
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  And, you know, after they
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  got things off the ground,
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  asked me to join the
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  team and I thought the opportunity
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  and idea was super compelling.
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  So that's where we are today.
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  Yeah, well said.
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  It's been interesting seeing fintech
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  and crypto collide over time,
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  even conversations around embedded
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  finance, so on and so forth.
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  Though that's not today's topic of
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  conversation.
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  It has been cool seeing that coming
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  from New York City, where that's
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  where all the fintex are.
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  Maybe on the Lydian side
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  of things, maybe get us
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  up to speed on what's been going on
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  with Lydion this year, and then we
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  could go into that on a deeper
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  level. Yeah.
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  We've been really focused on
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  the merchant
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  relationship with
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  stable coins and digital assets in
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  general, because we
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  see the payments ecosystem
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  as a massive opportunity
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  for stable coins and assets
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  in the general.
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  But I think the
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  messy relationship between
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  merchants, consumers,
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  and the payments processors
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  is one that requires
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  a lot of work.
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  And you don't want the merchant
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  doing that work, right?
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  So we kind of exist to
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  bridge that gap and serve that
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  role for our payments processor
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  customers and the merchants
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  that they service.
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  Yeah, and maybe you could actually
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  walk me through a bit of the
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  inner work. I'm not going too deep
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  in depth, but let's say I'm someone
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  who has USDT and
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  there's a merchant who I want to
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  pay with a card and they
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  want pesos maybe by the
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  end of the day or near
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  instantaneously.
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  How does that work and what role
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  does Lydian play in that?
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  Yeah. So.
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  You know kind of two sides of things
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  one obviously the card and
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  stablecoin linked cards
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  as well as the direct
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  merchant payments so
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  on the card side you
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  know you can obviously fund your
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  card with stablecoins at
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  the point of transaction those
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  stablecoins are converted to fiat
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  and usually to
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  the acquirer.
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  And then the acquirer disperses it
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  on to their merchant base.
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  Similar thing happens with the
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  direct merchant
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  payments.
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  So you have USDT
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  on your MetaMOS
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  wallet, right?
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  You want to use your Metamoss wallet
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  to spend at a merchant.
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  You go in, you scan,
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  you connect that wallet, you
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  complete the transaction.
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  This is one thing that we do is
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  you scan the transaction to make
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  sure that it's not
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  a bad actor or anything,
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  undo like that.
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  Two, once that transaction has
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  been checked, we
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  make sure that we've actually
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  received the digital assets.
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  Then you do the conversion piece,
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  the fiat, and
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  then you do this settlement to the
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  acquirer.
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  So, you know, similar process in
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  both, but obviously
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  different mediums of actually
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  paying, one being a card and
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  one being direct from your wallet.
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  Definitely, and one
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  of the more interesting things I
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  learned recently was that obviously
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  consumers are choosing to use stable
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  coins and just Globally because
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  maybe some people don't have access
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  to high quality.
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  Just fiat currencies or
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  maybe some Yeah,
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  maybe just there people want access
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  to US dollars or
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  US dollar denominated assets But
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  the merchants themselves don't
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  actually know that they're accepting
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  stable coins via these card
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  networks.
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  So I guess from your perspective,
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  I'd really love to hear it.
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  Do you think that's a problem?
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  Well, look, I think of digital
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  assets as they become more and more
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  mainstream as just
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  another form of currency, right?
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  At the end of the day, you and
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  I have a
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  U.S.
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  Denominated bank, and
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  we have U. S. Denomination cards,
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  right.
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  The beautiful thing about what
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  the payments ecosystem does
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  is make sure that the merchant
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  doesn't need to worry about that,
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  right, whether you're paying in
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  dollars or euros or
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  pesos or whatever it is, the
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  merchant will still receive their
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  fiat currency and all of that
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  complexity is taken away from the
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  merchant's hands.
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  And that's the similar thing that
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  we're trying to do with digital
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  assets, right, is take that
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  complexity away and
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  make it as simple as
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  anything else. So I don't view it
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  as something they should be worried
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  about or think about because
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  Ultimately, I think of it as just
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  another kind of current.
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  Yeah. Well said.
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  And on your client side, is there
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  any curiosity to learn about digital
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  assets or stable coins?
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  Has that shifted based on where the
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  market regime is? I just really want
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  to get the inside perspective,
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  given it's a...
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  Yeah, very, very hot.
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  Yeah. Well, look, when
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  I first started working with Lydian,
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  a lot of the work that we were doing
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  was frankly educational,
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  giving payments
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  processors and acquirers
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  kind of the lay of
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  the land of what
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  stablecoin ecosystem is,
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  what it looks like, how it works,
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  all of those sort of building block
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  type um...
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  Pieces.
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  Nowadays, I would say that the
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  familiarity and curiosity with it
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  is significantly grown.
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  There's not really that educational
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  lag that you would have
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  to teach
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  a payment processor or merchant
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  on.
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  It's really changed a lot
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  in the past two years, which is
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  great.
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  Yeah, and it's quite interesting
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  because this isn't being led by
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  a digital asset speculative boom,
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  which is causing people to be
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  curious.
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  It's almost like crypto is becoming
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  ubiquitous.
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  My generation didn't really know a
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  world without the internet.
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  The generation after didn't know a
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  real world without Bitcoin.
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  Now this generation doesn't really a
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  world about stable coins, which
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  makes for just interesting
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  conversations when you're working in
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  the space full time or you're
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  walking down the streets of New York
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  and you hear some mumbles about USDC
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  and all these other different
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  things. Sound.
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  Yeah, I just wanted to throw that in
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  anecdotally, but I'm curious on your
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  side, when you think about the
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  merchant acquirers versus the
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  payment services providers, what are
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  those conversations like on your end
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  and maybe what are the similarities
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  and differences there?
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  Yeah, so
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  We we frankly think
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  of them as as the same
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  sort of conversation
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  Ultimately, right the
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  role that we're trying to play is
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  Giving merchants the ability to
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  accept digital assets and receive
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  fiat settlement at the end of the
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  day, right?
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  Now there are nuances in
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  what the reporting looks like, what
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  the settlement
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  flow will look like.
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  But at the end of the day,
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  whether you're a PSP, an acquirer,
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  or anyone else, you just want to
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  know that, okay, if I
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  accept and turn this on,
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  will I have fiat currency
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  and the currency that I choose
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  coming to my bank account
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  every day or every other day,
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  whatever it is.
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  So we always try to frame the
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  conversations around that.
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  That's our role,
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  that's what we try to do, and so
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  the settlement flows and other
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  aspects might be different, but that
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  ultimately always stays
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  constant in our conversations.
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  Make sense.
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  And if you had to put maybe like a
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  top one or two FAQs that you
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  typically get during the early
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  stages, what are those?
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  Yeah Well,
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  I would say that
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  one what type of digital assets
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  do you support right?
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  That's a big one Yeah, what
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  type and networks can you support?
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  And Ultimately, what types
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  of wallets can you supports?
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  Because Again,
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  I think when you first get
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  into this space you see it as
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  you know, a one-size-fits-all
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  type products.
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  I'm going to turn on digital assets,
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  so, you know, I'm gonna turn on
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  every digital asset that exists out
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  there or every wallet that exists
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  our there.
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  But what we usually spend
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  the initial time with our
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  customers working through is what
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  type of assets do they want to
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  support? What type of networks do
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  they wanna support?
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  What type wallets
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  do they wana support?
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  And then all of the other good
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  stuff comes, but those are usually
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  the initial questions that we deal
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  with. Yeah, well since we're on the
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  topic, what digital assets and
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  networks does Lydian support?
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  Yeah, so in terms of coverage
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  these days, we like to say
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  to all of our customers, we support
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  the most widely
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  used networks and
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  tokens. So think of the top 25
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  most widely traded
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  tokens and top
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  25, most widely use networks.
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  And those we support, obviously,
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  when you look at the actual volume
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  data, right?
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  Those skew towards
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  the USETs of the world.
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  But we want to
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  support everything so that our
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  merchants and our acquirers can make
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  the decision.
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  If there's ever a
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  digital asset that we don't support
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  that our
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  customers specifically want,
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  then we're able to do that pretty
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  quickly.
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  Nice. And how often do those types
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  of conversations come up, people
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  wanting maybe more so
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  obscure assets to the outsider in
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  the industry?
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  I would say it's more region and
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  country specific, right?
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  For example, there's certain
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  stable coins
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  that are pegged obviously to the
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  local country's
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  currency.
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  Now the network that they use is
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  usually one that we already support,
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  but just supporting
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  that currency or that token as
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  well is the most common
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  request that we get.
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  Okay.
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  That makes sense, and I guess I'm
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  so close to it and been doing it
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  for so long. I've been banging my
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  head against the wall, trying to go
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  from here to there for so along.
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  When people do want to go back and
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  forth between these networks,
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  what is that chain abstract
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  experience like on Lydian?
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  I mean, look, in general, I would
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  say that we
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  offer people
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  the ability to customize
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  and extrapolate
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  out from our existing
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  tech stack
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  and our tech capability
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  as much as possible.
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  But I always like to center it
• 11:54
  in realism because
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  there are certain tokens and
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  certain networks that are outside
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  the norm that people want us to
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  suggest us to use or support,
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  and I always drive it back to
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  utility.
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  At the end of the day,
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  from the data that we're seeing and
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  the volume that we are seeing,
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  the majority of transactions happen
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  on a number of very
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  specific tokens and very specific
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  networks, and so we
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  can do that for you, but
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  ultimately we want to drive
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  volume for the merchants at
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  the end the day.
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  Sometimes giving too much choice
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  is a
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  bad thing for the consumer.
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  We want to keep things simple to
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  what they know and what they're used
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  to.
• 12:41
  Definitely. Well said.
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  And you touched on the point about
• 12:44
  being a lot of these queries being
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  regional and country specific.
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  Where has Lydian seen the most
• 12:50
  growth in the past year.
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  Maybe if you could compare this
• 12:54
  between like emerging markets versus
• 12:56
  developing. We'd really keen to hear
• 12:57
  your perspective.
• 12:58
  Obviously, we're based in the US and
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  so we have a presence there and
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  we have growth there.
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  I think this past year in
• 13:06
  2026, we've really
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  seen a lot of growth in
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  Southeast Asia and
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  some of the markets in
• 13:14
  and around Singapore, which
• 13:16
  has been super exciting for us.
• 13:17
  So that's definitely one region
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  which we're trying to spend more
• 13:21
  time and
• 13:23
  put more resources behind because
• 13:25
  it's an exciting...
• 13:26
  Opportunity for us in a very
• 13:28
  exciting market as well.
• 13:29
  Can you speak to the growth
• 13:31
  prospects of who are the people in
• 13:32
  the Southeast Asian region who are
• 13:34
  actually coming forth and very
• 13:36
  curious about what Lydian does?
• 13:37
  Yeah, so...
• 13:38
  I would say that it
• 13:40
  all comes from a regulatory
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  standpoint, so the regulatory
• 13:44
  environment in Southeast Asia has
• 13:46
  matured a lot in
• 13:47
  countries like the Philippines,
• 13:49
  Thailand, Indonesia,
• 13:52
  and taking advantage
• 13:54
  of those regulatory tailwinds
• 13:56
  to engage
• 13:58
  with PSPs and acquirers
• 14:00
  in those markets specifically
• 14:02
  has been super exciting for us.
• 14:05
  Yeah, make sense make sense and
• 14:07
  now to move the conversation along I
• 14:09
  kind of want to talk about the
• 14:10
  stable coin card Aspect of
• 14:12
  things. Yeah, because I
• 14:14
  mean scoped cards versus
• 14:16
  pure stable coin agentic
• 14:18
  payments like Where do you see
• 14:20
  the world going here?
• 14:21
  Because I mean I spoke to one of
• 14:23
  the larger card providers and I was
• 14:25
  a bit shocked to say oh He said
• 14:26
  scope cards. This is the way I think
• 14:28
  we should be doing things like oh
• 14:29
  really why I just assumed my
• 14:32
  maybe naive crypto nativeness
• 14:33
  thought, oh, just like what?
• 14:34
  Just send the stable coins, man.
• 14:35
  It's easy. Just put the stablecoins
• 14:36
  in the wallet, bro.
• 14:38
  Yeah.
• 14:39
  But clearly that's not the case.
• 14:41
  I mean, look, there's a number of
• 14:42
  different players doing different
• 14:46
  things.
• 14:47
  We have our
• 14:49
  own, you
• 14:51
  know, Visa branded
• 14:53
  stablecoin links, go cards,
• 14:57
  which for the products
• 14:58
  that we're launching and the
• 15:00
  partnerships that we have, it
• 15:02
  makes most sense because it's
• 15:04
  very simple and easy
• 15:06
  to build out and easy to ramp,
• 15:08
  so.
• 15:09
  I wouldn't say that I have
• 15:12
  a super well-informed
• 15:14
  opinion or super,
• 15:16
  yeah,
• 15:18
  specific point of view on it, other
• 15:19
  than we
• 15:21
  like the way that we're doing it
• 15:22
  because it fits for our purposes.
• 15:26
  But ultimately,
• 15:28
  I think it's great for the ecosystem
• 15:30
  because choice,
• 15:32
  innovation throughout every
• 15:34
  product category matters.
• 15:37
  And...
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  That is what I want most for
• 15:40
  this card industry and
• 15:42
  stablecoin card industry as well.
• 15:44
  Very eloquently stated and
• 15:47
  when you think about the nexus of
• 15:48
  we'll say something like AI
• 15:50
  and stable point payments
• 15:52
  What's the current landscape right
• 15:54
  now? If you could get me up to speed
• 15:55
  and then where do you see things
• 15:56
  going?
• 15:57
  Frankly, for this conversation,
• 16:00
  I probably can't do a good job of
• 16:02
  giving you a good sense of the
• 16:04
  stablecoin landscapes
• 16:06
  that relates to agentic payments.
• 16:09
  What I would say though is
• 16:11
  one thing that we're very
• 16:13
  focused on at Lydian is
• 16:16
  how that
• 16:18
  agent interacts with the end
• 16:20
  merchant. Hmm.
• 16:21
  And...
• 16:22
  One thing that we've done from a
• 16:24
  distribution standpoint is really
• 16:25
  try to embed ourselves within
• 16:27
  like I've been
• 16:29
  talking about, the PSPs, the
• 16:31
  acquirers, the folks who actually
• 16:33
  hold the merchant relationship and
• 16:35
  control what
• 16:38
  type of forms
• 16:40
  of payment they can accept.
• 16:42
  And so I think being positioned
• 16:44
  there is a good spot
• 16:46
  for us to be in because ultimately
• 16:49
  Whichever
• 16:52
  form of agentic payments wins
• 16:54
  or you know proliferates
• 16:56
  whether that stable coin or
• 16:58
  related or otherwise we
• 17:00
  should have some part to play in
• 17:02
  that so yes that's
• 17:04
  my general thinking I know it wasn't
• 17:06
  the most helpful for you, but uh...
• 17:08
  Yo, it was a good answer, I
• 17:09
  appreciate it.
• 17:10
  Look, it's one of those things, I'm
• 17:11
  very curious, and a wise man
• 17:14
  has, sorry, a fool has
• 17:15
  more questions than a wise has
• 17:17
  answers, so happy
• 17:19
  to look foolish, man.
• 17:20
  It's all good.
• 17:21
  Fair enough.
• 17:22
  But, when a.
• 17:24
  You think about where Lydian fits in
• 17:25
  overall, is it more so, do you see
• 17:27
  these are more manual, maybe there's
• 17:29
  a bit of AI, and then you're
• 17:31
  solving that last mile problem
• 17:33
  to the merchant?
• 17:34
  Or can we walk me through just
• 17:36
  overall, maybe that, more
• 17:37
  like from a workflow perspective,
• 17:39
  how that would work.
• 17:40
  I think, look, at the end of the
• 17:41
  day, whatever the
• 17:43
  front end looks like,
• 17:45
  whether that's in the form of
• 17:46
  agents, whether it's a POS device,
• 17:48
  whether a checkout page,
• 17:52
  merchants want to be sure that
• 17:54
  an individual has good funds,
• 17:57
  basically, that they have the money
• 17:59
  to pay for whatever it is they're
• 18:00
  trying to buy.
• 18:01
  And if you can
• 18:04
  solve that problem for them.
• 18:06
  While also delivering those
• 18:08
  funds to them in a timely manner,
• 18:10
  you're in a good spot.
• 18:12
  So yeah, I like to think of us as
• 18:14
  that kind of
• 18:16
  infrastructure and
• 18:18
  last mile layer.
• 18:20
  And whatever form that front end
• 18:22
  takes
• 18:24
  is less relevant to
• 18:26
  us and
• 18:28
  something that we can be
• 18:30
  flexible around.
• 18:31
  No, it makes complete sense.
• 18:32
  I mean, like we almost started the
• 18:34
  conversation with, those
• 18:35
  high-quality either
• 18:37
  dollar-denominated assets or those
• 18:38
  local currencies are what people
• 18:39
  want. If you could help them expand
• 18:41
  their reach or get access to
• 18:43
  products and services they would not
• 18:44
  get otherwise, it's a no-brainer,
• 18:46
  it make everybody happy,
• 18:48
  and yeah, it's almost where the
• 18:49
  future's at.
• 18:50
  Look, we always like to say there's
• 18:52
  trillions of dollars of digital
• 18:53
  assets that exist in the world
• 18:55
  today, right?
• 18:56
  We're just trying to give merchants
• 18:57
  the ability to see those
• 18:59
  dollars and see those funds.
• 19:03
  Obviously, there's multiple ways to
• 19:05
  tackle it. But the more ways a
• 19:07
  merchant has to receive
• 19:09
  money for the goods they're selling,
• 19:11
  the better it is for the merchant.
• 19:13
  And that's what we're really trying
• 19:14
  to do.
• 19:15
  Makes sense. Nick, I know you're a
• 19:16
  very busy man.
• 19:17
  I don't want to take up too much
• 19:18
  more of your time, but really,
• 19:20
  really grateful for you sitting down
• 19:21
  and chatting with the block today.
• 19:22
  No, super happy to have done it.
• 19:25
  Really enjoyed your questions and
• 19:26
  the conversation.
• 19:27
  So thanks so much for having me.
• 19:29
  We'll do.
• 19:29
  We'll try to keep it local and who
• 19:31
  knows maybe we'll actually hang out
• 19:32
  and kick it. Appreciate it, man
• 19:35
  Cheers, take care