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Embracing Psychotherapy with Kelli Underwood · Finding New Waters

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I am a big believer in lifelong learning so I'm always trying to
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expand my toolbox. I don't think we should ever be
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done because the field of psychotherapy is constantly
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evolving, right? So I will say, I am very
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eclectic and very integrative and I really try to offer a
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variety of options because what one client will be drawn to and
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what will work for them to feel safe.
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Enough is not the same as the The next client.
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And so you know what, the three of us would probably have
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different experiences of what feels safe.
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Good afternoon. My name is Graham durgi, and I
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am the founder and CEO of new orders recovery in Raleigh.
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North Carolina, Welcome to our weekly podcast.
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Finding new Waters. Our goal in creating finding new
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Waters, is to provide a resource for families to help navigate
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the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with
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substance use or mental health. When we find ourselves in
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crisis, due to one of these issues, most people have no idea
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where to turn, we hope to shed some light on to what is often
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The Darkest Hour for many families.
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I'm joined here today by our medical director, dr.
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Harold hung, and Kelly Underwood in 2013 Kelly moved to Durham
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North Carolina and launched her own business to be aligned.
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Today, she has a thriving Psychotherapy practice and
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continues to train and consult with school districts counselors
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agencies. And companies, Kelly's been
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training, therapist in transformative Insight imagery
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tii since 2000 and is the sole owner of transformative.
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Insight imagery it all facets of her business, Kelly Embraces
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diversity. Tea and is a passionate Allied
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all who experienced discrimination and Prejudice.
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Thank you very much for being with us today.
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Kelly. It's a pleasure to have you
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here. Thank you so much for having me.
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I am just thrilled to be with both of you.
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Absolutely, absolutely. So, I love starting these
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podcasts off, obviously getting our audience to know our guests
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a little bit better, and I would love to hear a little bit about
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how you got into this work and, and just how what drove you to
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answer the behavioral health field?
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Sure, would love to tell you that story.
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Well, every since I was a kid, I was sort of the friend that
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everybody would come to, to talk about, whatever was stressing
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them. And so, I got a lot of feedback
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growing up that I was a good listener that I should work with
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people that I should be in a helping profession.
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So that sort of always had me thinking I would do something
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with people in a helping profession.
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Right? Then when I was a senior, I was
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really struggling as a senior in high school and I ended up
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advocating. For myself with my family to go
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and see my own mental health, counselor to help me and that
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was a life-changing experience to have a counselor really for
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the first time in my life, I felt really listened to
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validated, see, without judgment accepted for what I was going
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through. And how I felt even though I was
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just a teenager right? And the presence of a supportive
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and safe person I was I remember sitting in a session early on
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with this therapist and saying I'm going to do what you do.
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Yeah, for a living. This is this is what I want to
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do, right? And then the third thing that
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really just made it clear what kind of degree I would get and
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where I would go next, was in undergraduate school.
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I signed up for an intro to Social Work class and I still
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remember the first day in the class great teacher, and I just
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they were talking about the values.
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And Ethics and the knowledge and all the different things social
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workers can do. And I was like, this is me
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right? This is it?
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Yeah, this is. This is my life path.
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Yeah. So that was how it unfolded.
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Yeah. And it's always amazing to me,
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how people get into this work, and obviously, you know, a lot
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of us have had our own struggles and difficulties and come out
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the other side. And then, you know, made it our
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career in our life and that was kind of my story and you know,
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but I do think that you know similar to you in a lot of ways.
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As there was, you know, certain guys along the way in my journey
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that I just saw on and, you know, that were walking the
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walk, right? And I was like, man.
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If I can, you know, be like those guys, I mean, what an
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amazing way to make a career, you know, helping people saving
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lives and all that. So I mean it's it really is
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incredible work, and so just so humbled to be able to do it.
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Absolutely, I am right there with you on that.
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I feel like I tell people all the time, this is sacred work.
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It's sacred. We are on the front lines trying
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to really impact people in a positive way and it's really
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meaningful and purposeful work to witness.
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Somebody's journey to be beside them and their roughest times
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and watch them rise out of. It is just such an honor to me
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like truly. Yeah 100%.
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Yeah so in your work it began with having this really We
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positive experience of the therapist?
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Yeah and what I have run into I do therapy as well and I do a
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lot of medication management and as have a lot of clients that
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are there for meds but they have a therapist and they're not
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really sure if it's a good therapist.
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They go every week, it's fine. But they'd be going every week
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for a year or three years or 10 years and they're not really
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sure if this is what they need. They just know that it's
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helpful. They go, but I think a lot of
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people would be interested in now what is a good therapeutic
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relationship or what does good therapy look like?
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And I think everyone has different answers to that
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question and different answers resonate with different people.
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So I'm always interested to hear from our guests to the benefit
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of our audience in your experience.
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What is a good therapeutic relationship look like.
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Yes, I am really happy. You asked this question and it's
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really interesting timing because I Spent the day
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yesterday online training, folks with the topic of how to be more
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effective in Psychotherapy. And the two major points, I
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invited people to focus on. His therapist is one.
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We know from the research that what clients remember about our
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sessions long term is how they felt in our presence.
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How they felt in our presence. We know that Rapport and empathy
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and the connection are the key. And if somebody is not feeling
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connected with me, I'm a big believer.
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They should. As a customer seeking Mental,
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Health Services, they should be able to have the experience of a
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therapist that they really have enough connection to enough
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safety enough. Trust them are enough rapport.
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That they then can become willing to be vulnerable enough
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to do the work, right? So I think the report and the
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ability to be a real person with professional boundaries, to be
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genuine to really practice deep listening and Being who you are
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in your own personality but but bringing a conversation I'm a
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real person. I get a lot of feedback from
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folks. I've supervised interns and
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staff that they've been told in other supervisions or trainings
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or even their education that they have to be really kind of
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constricted in the session and I just don't think that's real.
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I work in the field of trauma and I have For 25 years and
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people want to feel a real person in front of them, riding
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a real person who really cares who's not giving them a bunch of
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baloney, right? So I think that's the first
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piece. The second piece is, do you have
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tools competencies? To help the person with what
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they're coming to you for and what clients have told me is I
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appreciate that. You really are beside me, you
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really care about me, you don't have to know everything but I
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also appreciate that. You give me tools strategies,
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you help me to think about things differently and try new
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things and I am getting better because you're teaching me
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things, I didn't know. no, before I think a lot of
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therapists missed the boat on the fact that they are a teacher
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Yeah, whether your cognitive behavioral solution-focused, you
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know, internal family systems art therapy, it doesn't matter
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what your Technique is, find something that's aligned with
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you that you're good at and then have a menu of options for
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people. And the other thing I said,
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yesterday in this training is we need to be mindful is therapist
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that we're not asking people to come to our comfort zone.
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We need to be where the client is and join their comfort zone.
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Right? Right.
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So I think all of those things are important and what you're
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saying and what kind of questions would would you pose
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to families or tell them to ask a potential therapists?
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You know when they're trying to find a good fit, right?
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And hey is there anything specific that you can?
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You know I actually often, when I can't take referrals I will
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send people an email with some resources to do, some research,
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and to feel more empowered and educated and what they are
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looking for. And what is It to them without
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making assumptions about what that might be.
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But, you know, being able to say, some very specific things
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about here are the things I want as outcomes.
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Here are the kind, here's what I think I would do better with.
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So I ask clients upfront. Like if you've had a past
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therapy experience, what did you like and what didn't really work
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for you? And then I'm honest about where
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I line with that and whether there's someone else who might
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be a better fit Right? So I really think people should
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know to, you know, they're not going to know all the different
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techniques, but if for example, they're reaching out to me for
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trauma. I'm going to let them know.
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We have all these things. Now available, you might want to
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research, what is EMDR eye movement, desensitization,
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reprocessing therapy. You might want to also look at
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some of the somatic, centered psychotherapies and then I'll
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tell them a little bit about what that is.
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We have, I was trained in somatic, experiencing we have
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sensory motor, we have all kinds of other things, evolving now,
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like a EDP, and, you know, lots of attachment based therapies
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for parents with with young kids.
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So I'll give them a list of. Here's some things for you, to
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maybe look into and see, which one's of these sound.
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Like they might be helpful. And then ask, if the person is
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trained in any of these ask what kinds of techniques they use and
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then go and look those up. And does that feel like a good
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fit for Me. Yeah.
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Right ask how with their philosophy is?
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Yeah, if they are an attachment based therapist, if they value
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the relationship or they're more of a short-term concrete, you
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know, there's no right or wrong here, but it has to be the right
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fit for the person and the client doesn't always know what
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they need. And that's okay too.
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Yeah but I always tell clients think of yourself as a customer
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you have the right to choose a product that feels right for you
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never sent right? And even Think we do that,
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really well here too as well. And I think any good program
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hopefully does. Where, you know, we get super
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granular on, you know, our Aftercare planning and, you
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know, we're often times looking at, you know.
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Yes. This is going to be a good fit
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program wise but you know maybe more so who on the therapeutic
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team is going to be a good fit with this specific client,
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right? Wonderful which is you know, not
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always done and listen, we can't do it 100% of the time but we
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really, really do try to take that into account And because I
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think that, you know, unfortunately a lot of the time,
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we're kind of throwing darts at a dartboard hoping that yes,
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this is a great program. But, you know, maybe you get set
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up with, you know, your primary therapist is, you know, maybe
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they're very green or just not a good connection, right?
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It's not a good fit for, in some way.
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And that can really give you a very different experience than
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if you, you know, had somebody that you had a good fit with,
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right? So, I think it's important to
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look at those pieces. I love that you do that.
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Well, Thank you for doing that. Yeah, thank you that you all do
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that here at new Waters because it's just really essential.
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And so the fact that you really break it down to who's the right
13:27
fit on multiple levels. I think is really going to help
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people have a better experience and that's what we all want.
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That's what we're all in this forest and well, people, this is
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not a cheap Endeavor, know it for families.
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And you don't want to have to do this thing multiple times,
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right? And so if we can kind of get
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through this and and, and that can be the difference between a
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good The bad expect. Exactly.
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It's exactly, it's important. Yeah, I even go so far when I
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have a potential teenage client of asking the parent to please
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give their teenager Choice. Yeah.
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To please tell the teenager that they get to do a mutual
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interview with me and they get to ask questions and they get to
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you know let them let them interview at least two different
14:08
therapists and have some say in who they're going to do this
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journey with right. Right.
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I think that's a key part of the good therapy.
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Relations is like this, without safety.
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Yes, you can't be vulnerable. And I think it's it's out there
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in like, with the work that brain Brown has done.
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Yes. Vulnerability.
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So so popular. It's almost become like a virtue
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by itself but I do a lot of work with clients and tell them, you
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know what, there's there's a right way to be vulnerable and a
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wrong way to be vulnerable, right?
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And vulnerability for vulnerabilities.
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Sake is actually dangerous. Yes, and if Part of your
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recovery is learning how to be safe.
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Yes, right. Yeah.
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So, the essence of safety in therapy is is consent right Ike,
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you have the right to pass. Here's what we're going to do.
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Here is how we're going to do it.
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Do you want to go on this journey together for this work
15:02
today? And I think if there's no
15:04
treatment plan that that's me is a big red flag if they had
15:08
saying, here's what we'll do, here's how well do it.
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If someone can't put that into words or some type of
15:14
representation, For you, you're really trusting in one faith
15:19
that this is going to work out, right?
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It doesn't have to be that way. I think it really should be
15:24
like, very, very transparent on the table for everyone to see.
15:30
So a big part of a big advocate of is their treatment plan.
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Yeah. And a big and big party.
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See if you I love this thing, you're doing think the
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adolescence is they have the right to pass or they have the
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right to decide and that's huge. But I'm also really interested
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in hearing about the tools. Part because I think that's
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tremendous and a lot of us are still in this old-school therapy
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where we're going to do this Freudian.
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Mmm. Just just kind of sit back and
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be the blank slate and you express yourself and selling a
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realize this Epiphany about yourself.
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Yeah. But it's I can't say it's it
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really happens. And there's a reason why a lot
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of psychodynamic people are in session 3 days, a week for 35
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years, Yes, yes. But if people are getting a
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tools, I think that is so interesting because a lot of
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people don't even know that you can go and work with a therapist
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to get tools, right? Will change your life, right?
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Can you tell us about the tools that you've helped your clients
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with? Well, I am a big believer in
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lifelong learning so I'm always trying to expand my toolbox.
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I don't think we should ever be done because the field
16:46
Psychotherapy is constantly evolving, right?
16:49
So I will say, I am very eclectic and very integrative
16:54
and I really try to offer a variety of options because what
16:59
one client will be drawn to and what will work for them to feel
17:03
safe. Enough is not the same as the
17:05
next client and so you know what, the three of us would
17:09
probably have different experiences of what feels safe,
17:12
right? So some of the tools that I lean
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Into all the foundational one for me for 20.
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Some years has been transformative, Insight imagery.
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And I also have, I think my practice has changed
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significantly as the Neuroscience has really come out
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about how to bring the body and the nervous system into
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treatment. And so, I definitely access
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somatic, experiencing and Stephen porges, polyvagal Theory
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and Deb. Dana, I We love a lot of her
17:46
exercises about helping clients experience, the different states
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of their being and helping them be able to more fluidly regulate
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and move through them. And the ti actually has a
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component of really helping folks with that.
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I think mindfulness is valuable, but I think a lot of times Well,
18:07
intentioned therapist, we sometimes misstep with
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mindfulness, and with traumatized, folks, it can be
18:13
triggering if we're asking them. Um, to get really go into
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themselves before their resource and right, have enough resources
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and regulation to go in with mindfulness because getting
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still are getting quiet or meditating can also be really
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unsafe for some people. Mmm.
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Right. So I think all of these things
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have to be catered. To the person in front of you, I
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definitely value cognitive therapy, you know, working with
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who's narrating, the story of the moment with clients, I have
18:44
found very valuable. TI also has a big piece when we
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go into the more deeper 8-step process of Parts work and I
18:55
think that Parts work, I know a lot of people are getting
18:57
trained in internal family systems, but this idea that we
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all have many facets to our personality many parts and in
19:04
the world of trauma, I find this is one of the more powerful
19:07
interventions that I see sustainable change in is when
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people can whether they use art or the imagery or even more
19:17
psychodrama practices to really deeply.
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SS and connect like that 10 year old self that went through that
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trauma. And now they are taking care of
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those younger parts that did not get what they needed, found that
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to be really powerful. So I do a lot of nervous system
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regulation, kinds of things, I'm very experiential.
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I find that and I'm very relational and attachment lens
19:46
focused and everything I do. But I'm always, you know, I'm
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always incorporating like dr. Dan Siegel, and Bruce.
19:53
Carrie and there's just lots of people that I really value his
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new book with Oprah. You know what happened?
20:01
Right to you is excellent. I was also trained by Steve
20:05
Carell and Kathy Kane and nervous system work.
20:08
They have a great book called nurturing resilient so I use a
20:11
lot of their techniques. So I really am fairly eclectic
20:15
and I really have learned. You have to pace the order of
20:19
your interventions in the relationship and in The context
20:24
of where you are with that client and what they are ready
20:27
for Readiness is important. Yeah, yeah.
20:32
I'm super excited. He covered a ton of ground.
20:34
Yeah. Yeah, I think I'll be really
20:37
helpful for our listeners to, to go through this journey.
20:42
May be kind of step-by-step and so I think it's helpful to start
20:46
with Trauma because just like, how do we think about it?
20:50
We have we have a lot of people who think, you know, trauma is
20:54
something horrific. Yes, happened to you, yes.
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But but therein lies. This, this big issue because in
21:01
the Big World trauma, there are things that are truly horrific
21:04
and there are things that are very subtle.
21:06
Yes. And not, obviously traumatic.
21:08
And for some reason, they just show up in your office and they
21:12
said, you know, something's just not right, yeah, right.
21:15
And so I wonder if we could start there.
21:18
Yes, he is how you would have. You would open up the
21:21
conversation with them about trauma and how you were later in
21:25
the nervous system integration word or the the other tools are
21:28
using. Well, I'm a big believer that in
21:33
trauma. We always have some varying
21:36
levels of feeling disconnected, out of control and Powerless.
21:41
Hmm. So I am really vigilant That I
21:46
may, if I missed up accidentally reenact some part of that with a
21:51
client. So I am a huge adamant proponent
21:55
of collaboration choice, and making sure clients feel like
22:01
they have a voice with me because that runs contrary to
22:04
trauma. Always mmm, if you have a voice,
22:07
you feel heard, I am here beside you, but you get to choose
22:11
what's best for you. So I like to start even with the
22:14
idea of trying. Trauma with do what do they
22:18
think? Has been traumatic in their
22:20
life? In a we start where they are
22:22
with their definition over time with the psychoeducation and
22:26
whatnot. They might start to go.
22:28
I think I had other traumatic experiences that I didn't
22:30
previously identify as that. So I like the definition that
22:35
you know, one of my teachers Peter Levine uses from somatic
22:40
experiencing he says, trauma is anything that overwhelms?
22:45
Resources for coping. Hmm.
22:47
Now, the key there is, we all have different resources for
22:50
coping with the same event. So that trauma is not actually
22:55
Divine by defined by the event, right?
22:59
It's defined by the effect. So I think that's the first
23:02
eye-opening thing for a lot of folks.
23:04
Wait, so I lived in a home where my parent was an alcoholic and
23:08
they were sort of sometimes, physically, scary or violent,
23:14
but you may have multiple People children in that home who were
23:17
impacted very differently, right?
23:20
Right. And that's because we all have
23:21
different resilience, he's different temperaments
23:24
personalities resources, right? So I love that.
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Peter explains that you know what happens in trauma is that
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something overwhelms? Our resources for coping and
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then it gets stuck. I get stuck in our brain, but it
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also really get stuck in our nervous system and our And we
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don't get it moved through the system.
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So that's where a lot of these body-centered techniques are
23:53
helping people to move it into a new place sort of like a train
23:59
that's derailed, and you're getting it back on the tracks
24:02
and moving it down to the next station.
24:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So your talks about feeling
24:08
overwhelmed. Yeah.
24:10
And then you also go by feeling powerless, disconnected.
24:16
And what's, what's the connection between those two
24:22
points in time? Which two points, the moment of
24:26
feeling overwhelmed, or repeatedly, feeling overwhelmed
24:30
Beyond stressed, beyond your capabilities, right?
24:33
And then showing up as an adult feeling disconnected disempower.
24:38
Yes, frustrated. Well, I mean, I think the truth
24:41
is and there are greater experts out there than me, but The truth
24:45
is these patterns get imprinted right the overwhelmed and so as
24:50
a kid, you know, maybe you learn to just shut down and hide, or
24:54
maybe you learned to, you know, you had a very intense freeze
25:00
response. Dissociation, became your friend
25:03
to leave something, that was difficult and We are all
25:08
brilliant in our systems of protection.
25:12
Yeah. And so, the first thing I want
25:14
clients to understand is, this isn't bad.
25:17
This is actually fantastic and Brilliant that you know how to
25:21
dissociate that, you know, how to shut down and disappear that,
25:24
you know, how to go into fight response to protect all of your
25:27
Littles, right? This is great that you have
25:31
these, we all have this internal alarm system that I, you know,
25:34
our neuroception is Lee scanning am I safe right now?
25:40
Is this dangerous? Is this life-threatening?
25:42
Or is it safe, right? And because our history is with
25:46
us, I might be sitting here feeling like this feels pretty
25:49
freaking scary to me right now. To be sitting here with you all
25:53
and you might be over here going, this is great.
25:55
I feel really relaxed, right? And everybody's response can be
25:59
so different, right? And I think that that like that,
26:02
obviously talk about walking in her room, reading the room that
26:04
hyper-awareness. Yes.
26:07
Where, you know, that can actually be kind of a positive
26:09
thing for something like, you know, I my ability to walk into
26:12
a room and read a room like that, you know, can be a real
26:15
Advantage. Yes, types of these things are
26:18
assets and sometimes they harm us or our relationships.
26:23
Yeah, so the way I explain it to my clients is what we want to do
26:27
in therapy is help you grow your awareness of when it's helpful
26:32
and when it's over active. So I use the analogy of when I
26:36
moved. Into my home.
26:37
And I had my alarm system installed the first couple
26:41
months were treacherous because apparently, the gentleman who
26:46
installed it, put it on too, sensitive of a setting and so
26:51
when a bird would hit the window unfortunately or there was
26:58
construction behind the woods of my house and it was vibrating
27:02
the alarm was going off and the cops were coming to my house.
27:07
Which made me feel good that they came, right.
27:09
But this was problematic, this is a perfect analogy for
27:14
post-traumatic stress disorder. Right.
27:16
Our alarm is going off all the time.
27:18
Yeah, but it's not really. Something happening now, but the
27:24
system is set so that it sits on overload, right?
27:28
So, in treatment, what we want to do is help that person feel
27:31
more in control, have more power, more connection to
27:35
themselves and others in oh, my nervous system can now
27:40
distinguish for me. Personally, I did EMDR on a
27:44
house fire that I survived. So what I remember experiencing
27:49
doing that trauma treatment was It went from constantly, anytime
27:54
something smelled slightly burnt.
27:57
The iron was left on to a candle was blown out like four rooms
28:02
away. I would go into Panic, like oh
28:06
no, something's on fire and through treatment.
28:08
What we can do is we really help move through, he'll reset the
28:14
system. So that over time I don't freak
28:18
out now, when I smell a candle, I don't freak out when the
28:20
iron's on my Brain my body and my nervous system can now
28:24
distinguish. That smell from the smell of
28:28
Something's burning on the stove.
28:30
Yeah, that's what good trauma treatment can do for folks,
28:34
amazing? Yeah, yeah.
28:36
And how does t.i., I play into all that and, and this is
28:41
something that you have created. Sorry, I'm just saying like one
28:47
out. Got it.
28:50
Okay. So, t.i. a, this is something
28:52
that you've created. No, no, I did not create it.
28:57
I my greatest mentor of my life and teacher and friend and
29:02
became like a family member to me dr.
29:05
Charlotte Smith is the creator of transformative.
29:08
Insight imagery when she retired, she, she had been
29:14
teaching And training folks in this for 30, some years in the
29:17
Chicago area, Okay? And she asked me to carry on her
29:23
work and gifted me with, with all of her copyright and
29:26
trademark material. And so it has been my mission to
29:31
get it out to as many therapists and clients and regular people
29:36
because it was the first thing that changed my life and put me
29:39
on my journey towards healing and wholeness.
29:43
I went to all of her retreats. Three.
29:45
Four times became an assistant, and then became my own teacher
29:49
of the work. And then, in Chicago, I did
29:53
trainings. And now, I'm really starting to
29:55
try to get back on online teaching for therapists and
29:59
Retreats in person and online, for anybody who just wants to do
30:04
some self healing. And so, what I love about t.i.
30:07
is that it is so in alignment with my values and its, that's
30:12
why I think it remains foundational to all my
30:14
Techniques, which is to me the greatest gift I can give a
30:17
client. Is the ability for them to trust
30:21
themselves, better to trust their wisdom, their knowingness,
30:28
and to know that they have what they need inside.
30:31
Because addiction mental health, the American culture, all tell
30:36
us that what we need is out here somewhere, right?
30:40
We just need to get that thing that medication, that, that
30:45
thing that's going to fix us. And what I have found is the
30:50
most sustainable healing. I have seen happen in folks, is
30:55
when they realize, they have what they need inside, right?
30:58
And that's what t.i. does. So, tiii we start with
31:03
resourcing folks, and what's different than guided imagery
31:08
per se, is that the Imager All the images are coming from them.
31:13
I am not telling people what they image.
31:18
So, people are astonished and surprised.
31:21
Sometimes of what comes up in their own experience from their
31:25
own history, to support them to provide wisdom or love or
31:29
support. And so, there is a greater
31:31
ownership over those resources because they're mine.
31:35
Hmm, it's my place. That's my wise guide, right?
31:39
And then, we really work with clients on practicing in life
31:44
here and now accessing those resources to shift you.
31:48
So there are aspects of polyvagal Regulation, pendulum
31:53
session from somatic experience. Experiencing so people will come
31:58
in and tell me all the time. Oh my gosh, I got really
32:00
triggered. And then I used my wise guide
32:04
and I felt them beside me, or I took four breaths of my
32:08
centering place, and I did it too.
32:11
Lee. I broke the pattern.
32:13
Yeah, I was more available. My adult self came and took care
32:16
of me. Well, right and showed up there,
32:19
we also have people meet their best self their highest self,
32:23
and then we in t.i., you can become anything.
32:26
So you can experience a whole new perspective.
32:29
Whole new insight that you never had before you can learn that.
32:33
Okay, I'm really struggling right now.
32:34
I'm going to merge with that. Wisdom of my Wiseguy door, that
32:38
higher, higher, best self. And it's a game changer, right?
32:43
So we do this incredible resourcing and people own it.
32:46
I find that people use it. They come back and they're
32:49
telling me success stories which is why I love it.
32:52
Yeah. Then when their resources and
32:53
their their little stronger and they're ready to be a little
32:57
more vulnerable and face those fears, we can go into an
33:00
eight-step journey and that journey I teach therapist how to
33:04
do this because it's unlearning because for therapists, your job
33:10
as a teacher, Eii co-facilitator is to get out of the way.
33:16
Your job is not to fix it or solve it, or come up with some
33:21
great idea. Your job is to trust that the
33:25
imager their system, their body, their psyche will take them and
33:31
do whatever they need to do to have the healing today.
33:36
And to watch people do this changes their lives.
33:40
Because they're like I had no idea that's what I needed to do
33:43
with that. I didn't know that my neck is
33:46
tight all the time because I'm holding anger there.
33:51
And now I have I I know what I need to do to let that go or we
33:56
go and free a loss of self, they got cut off.
34:00
So back to what you were saying about trauma can be really
34:03
obvious or really subtle. I've had so many people over the
34:06
years, free a lost self that they didn't even realize they
34:08
had cut off from. That was a subtle, it was
34:12
invalidating. A relationship was invalidating.
34:16
They didn't get, you know, maybe they really needed affection as
34:20
a kid. They really needed to be held,
34:23
but they happen to have parents who weren't affectionate.
34:26
Yeah. Right.
34:27
And so that for them was internalized as a child that I'm
34:31
not loved when in reality, their parents love them, but they
34:35
didn't receive it in the way they needed it.
34:37
That can be traumatic right for a child.
34:40
And it's not a fault, it's not a blame.
34:43
It's a statement that that can really affect people and their
34:46
relationships in the future and children will blame themselves,
34:49
right? So we have people go and they
34:54
discover this younger self in the imagery and the imagery is
34:59
five senses plus. It's so visceral that people are
35:03
amazed at how real their imagery experiences can be.
35:06
And so it's very anchoring and they are in the Iver seat and
35:11
the co-facilitator is encouraging, reminding them of
35:15
the resources. They have asking them things
35:18
like what needs to happen next right?
35:20
What are you willing to do? Who are what of your resources
35:25
is available to help you in this moment.
35:27
And so for me, it's so aligned with what I most deeply believe
35:32
about healing is when the client truly owns what they're doing
35:41
and their choice. That's life-changing.
35:46
That's that's the ripple effect. So I like to do things that have
35:49
big impact. Yeah.
35:51
I like to do things that are impactful and so t.i. has both
35:54
the resourcing peace and the deeper healing transformation,
35:57
peace and a couple other things that people have told me is
36:00
we've got mindfulness in their people, learn mindfulness, they
36:03
learn regulation and then they also learn in the eight-step
36:06
process Parts work body awareness.
36:10
They start to get insight that they never had before about what
36:13
they're holding. And where it's being held and
36:16
they learn ways. They can shift that at any
36:18
moment and that's what I also love.
36:20
People learn any moment, it's all available, right?
36:25
I don't have to be in front of my therapist to do this.
36:28
I have it when I'm at work, I have it.
36:30
When I'm at home with my partner, I have all these
36:32
resources available and are some of these resources like, you
36:36
know, breath work is here you kind of talking about a bed and
36:40
what are some of those you know, particular whilst we can, we do
36:42
one? Yeah.
36:43
Can we do? Together, love it.
36:45
Can we do the first one? Let's do it.
36:47
Alright, let's do it. So this is not, this is the fun
36:51
part that we talked to the fun part.
36:52
This is like let's experience it.
36:54
So even my, my people who helped me with marketing of said, you
36:58
know, t.i. is really tough for you to talk about because it's
37:02
an experience. And it is so different for every
37:04
person, it's very hard to put to words.
37:06
Yeah. So you have to understand that
37:09
dr. Charlotte Smith created this in
37:11
the 1979 1980. So this was before a lot of the
37:16
things that people tell me all the time, so it's sort of like
37:19
this. So it's sort of like that,
37:20
right? And so, the first thing we do
37:23
other other approaches have done as well, but I think it's how we
37:28
do it in tiii that you might experience as a little
37:30
different. The first thing we do is we find
37:33
a center and that becomes our home base, our anchor for every
37:38
process that we do. And it's a place, and the really
37:42
cool thing I love about t.i., is it?
37:44
Infinite possibilities. I see therapist open up to their
37:48
creative side. Like they haven't in years
37:50
because you never run out. Like, I've been doing t.i. for
37:53
my personal Journey for 20-some years, and I have multiple
37:58
centers, right? When it's winter here, I go to
38:01
the beach when it's summer, I go to the mountains, right?
38:05
So I need different support at different times depending on
38:09
what's going on in my life and t.i., I will reveal what you
38:13
need. What you need?
38:15
Yeah, you will get what you need.
38:16
Yeah. So that's the beauty of it.
38:18
And as a therapist, I don't have to know that I have to give the
38:22
imager permission to know that, right?
38:25
Love that. Yeah.
38:26
So all we're going to do is we're just going to, you can
38:30
either pick a place you want to venture to or you can see what
38:34
comes to you, right? You can keep your eyes open.
38:37
If that feels better for you or you can close your eyes,
38:39
whatever is going to help you have a more full experience,
38:42
right? And so I like to say is,
38:44
Imagine, you're just portaling yourself to a peaceful relaxing
38:50
replenishing place. It could be a place you've
38:54
actually been to. It could be a vacation place, it
38:57
could be your dream vacation place could be a place from your
39:01
younger years. It could be a place you have
39:03
access to right now and you go to all the time choose a place.
39:07
You really love to be at for calm for restoration.
39:16
Place where you can catch your breath and then let yourself be
39:20
there. Let yourself be there.
39:28
Notice what's the temperature here in your place today?
39:34
Notice how large or small? Your places.
39:41
Even notice how light or dark it is.
39:47
Take a moment to look around. What do you see or sense or feel
39:52
here? What are the sounds?
40:10
Allow yourself to take a nice deep, inhale of the air and
40:14
notice what the air is like in your place.
40:23
Take another breath and see. Are there?
40:25
Any smells here for me? See if there's something you
40:36
want to feel the texture of through touch.
40:46
Maybe, there's even something you want to taste.
40:55
Give yourself a moment to really enjoy your place and all that it
41:00
has for you here. Notice, what starts to shift in
41:04
your body with the support of this place?
41:09
Maybe your breath has slowed Tensions.
41:13
Releasing and just let yourself have a few more moments to
41:17
enjoy, all that's here and noticing the shifts.
41:37
Give yourself permission to come back and really be present here.
41:40
If something starts to take you away.
41:42
It's okay. Just go.
41:44
Oh, I'm going to come back to my place.
41:45
Now, take a few more breaths. Feel the support filling you up.
41:52
And you as you look around you, you may notice there's there's
41:56
sort of a gift here, a gift of support, some additional support
42:01
for when you come back and be open to whatever that might be.
42:05
Can come in any form. And then take a moment to set
42:11
your intention. When would you like to come back
42:14
here? When could it support you to
42:17
drop back into your Center? And then be really honest with
42:22
yourself. How will I remember to do this?
42:26
I need to set an alarm or put it in reminder in my phone or just
42:30
make sure I do it first thing in the morning.
42:32
Last thing at night, Beautiful, beautiful, as you're ready,
42:42
slowly bring your awareness back to the chair to the room and
42:46
just really noticing the difference.
42:47
You can feel it in the room for all of us that were just like
42:50
more here, right? We're here.
42:54
So I call that that's that's really, really great doorway
42:57
into mindfulness into we. So let's let's just notice the
43:02
diversity right here with the three of us, right?
43:05
I do this online, it's really astonishing that people put in
43:07
the chat. All the Isis and where they
43:09
went? Right?
43:10
Like, did anybody have water where they went today?
43:14
For me? I did nature any nature.
43:16
Any trees. Definitely nature.
43:19
Yep. Me too.
43:20
Me, too. And what sense was the strongest
43:25
and clearest for you? Which one did you appreciate the
43:27
most? Yeah, for me it was.
43:33
I said this incredible moment where I took my son fishing and
43:37
it's the sound of him laugh. Oh, I love that.
43:40
That's so great. Love that.
43:43
Yeah, I think for me it was smell.
43:46
So I kind of there's this tree at our house in Texas.
43:50
That is this like beautiful Live Oak that's just sprawling and
43:54
kind of has this like little Nook in it that we do a lot of
43:58
meditation and just sitting in her at the base of this tree and
44:02
it's and it's just so like comforting, but had this like
44:06
smells like honeysuckle And I just had I could you know
44:10
sensitive yeah. Yeah.
44:12
So it's really pretty amazing. When we first start to open up.
44:16
Yeah, to what's inside us and available and so what I find so
44:23
beautiful and precious is okay, I have this Mountain Home that I
44:28
love to go to and I'm not physically there right now, but
44:32
I was just there, right? Yeah.
44:34
And I was seeing the sunset and smelling the Mountain Air
44:39
Rocking In The Rocking Chair and as far as my brain, my nervous
44:43
system and my body are concerned.
44:45
It happened, right? Yeah, so I got the same effect
44:50
even though it wasn't literal that I was there, right?
44:54
And so, for folks, to open up to whatever it is that has
44:59
supported. You is always available at every
45:02
moment, is sort of mind-blowing. Yeah, it's mind-blowing, right?
45:06
Right, it's amazing. So, so, That's sort of a
45:09
starting place. Then what we would do is we
45:11
would really go to the next level of performance enhancement
45:14
and practice, you know, with with clients.
45:17
And so let's cue up into something that is a little
45:20
stressful or anxiety provoking or triggering, right?
45:24
And let's start noticing how you know that you're getting
45:28
triggered and where that shows up in your body.
45:30
So we're bringing in some of that somatic body centered work,
45:34
some of that nervous system work and then we have people practice
45:37
what would it be like To just take three or four breaths of a
45:41
couple of aspects of your center right here.
45:45
When this happens just three or four breaths of the smell of the
45:48
honeysuckle, mmm, just three or four breaths of the sound of
45:52
your son's laughter. Is enough to shift.
45:55
You write like Deb Dana talks about moving back towards
45:59
ventral vagal where our home is that's that's when we're rest
46:02
digest settled able to connect you know, present and anything.
46:08
Thing. That moves us a little bit back
46:10
that way is regulating. Right?
46:14
Is settling and I don't think most people know that you can do
46:17
that, right? I don't know.
46:19
It's these little micro moments. People think there's this.
46:22
Some overwhelming thing they have to learn three or four
46:25
breaths of your favorite part of what you just did is enough to
46:29
shift you. So that in that moment, you can
46:33
do something different, you have more available to choose
46:37
differently. It could be.
46:39
Tone of your voice is different. It could be you pause.
46:41
Before you speak. It could be you respond instead
46:44
of react. It could be you walk away.
46:48
Yep. Totally.
46:49
Well, and I in, you know, here at our site, we do breath work
46:53
with all of our clients and it's always amazing to me because it
46:57
is probably one of the most impactful interventions we have
47:01
here. Yes.
47:02
And it's you know, probably the cheapest thing that we do is
47:04
well yeah so it's just, you know, it's amazing and because
47:07
people go into it. You know, with not really
47:10
understanding what it's going to be all about and they come out
47:12
of it, just having this like transformative experience, and
47:16
it's really beautiful to just kind of give them a little
47:18
glimpse of like, you know, this is out there and these are
47:21
things that you can start utilizing and when your toolbox,
47:23
right, right? And your breath is always
47:25
available right now. I think about recovery as taking
47:30
radical responsibility for your well-being, like, understanding
47:35
only, I can make myself feel the way that I Want to feel it.
47:39
Need to feel exactly. Actually.
47:42
And but this what you're talking about and what we just
47:45
experienced it it it opens up this whole new layer which is
47:51
how can you take responsibility unless you trust yourself to
47:56
take responsibility? Yes.
47:59
But when you, when you take someone through an exercise like
48:02
this, you're not telling them you are showing them, right?
48:07
Like what are they are, actually Lee showing themselves?
48:10
Yes, they could do it. Yes, right.
48:12
And as they extend like, wow, I did that.
48:17
Yeah, I did that. Yes, it's there.
48:19
That's what I love. So much is exactly what you're
48:21
saying. People start to get more
48:24
confident. They feel like they have a, they
48:26
have competency over how to manage the really hard stuff in
48:31
life. Look, I have some things I can
48:33
do, I have some tools and yeah, but as we're going through our
48:37
experience, I was feeling I thought deep relief, and I also
48:43
felt like a spark of like joy and energy and to be realistic.
48:49
Like we all need that sense of relief from time to time.
48:52
We all need that spark of inspiration from time to time
48:57
and if you grew up in a place where no one showed you how to
49:01
do those things yourself, alcohol is a good way to get
49:05
relief. Exactly.
49:07
Either all or like another Stimulant is a good way to get
49:10
that spark. And so, you know, those
49:12
substances misuse like they're actually intended for a thing
49:17
that we all need, right? But the use of those things is
49:21
born out of this distrust. Yeah, I can do it.
49:24
Yes right. I can only get it from out here
49:27
but when you're showing people know, like you can take radical
49:31
responsibly because you can realistically trust yourself to
49:34
reduce that and that's that's Freedom that is freedom.
49:39
Love it. Perfect.
49:41
That is freedom. It's so powerful.
49:43
That, yes, you know, it's hard to figure this out on your own.
49:47
It's said I couldn't have if I hadn't walked into dr.
49:51
Shelley Smith, Retreat. I don't know that.
49:53
I would have figured this out. Well, we're finally talking
49:56
about these things, right? Yeah, that's the point of, you
49:59
know, having this podcast is obviously trying to bring a
50:01
little bit aware of awareness, you know, to folks that, you
50:04
know, I feel super fortunate that.
50:06
Listen, I went to treatment back in 2008.
50:08
And I learned a lot of this stuff but not everybody has that
50:11
experience. Right?
50:12
Exactly. So you know, for those of us
50:14
that are kind of lucky enough to have stumbled upon it, it's
50:17
great, but, but everybody should know about this, right?
50:21
Should be Front Page News. Write exams.
50:24
It's just unfortunately not. And, you know, obviously, you
50:29
know, you know, exercise and taking care of our body and all
50:32
those kind of components. I mean, this is also so
50:34
important for our overall well-being, right?
50:39
It's all important for our overall well-being.
50:41
And it starts with that deeper healing, I find for so many
50:45
folks is those internalized stories from our painful
50:50
experiences of. Well I I don't deserve this
50:55
right. Do I deserve well-being?
50:58
Am I worthy of it? My lovable is, anybody going to
51:03
stay and not leave, like all of these things are under it and I
51:07
have just found that the trauma treatments and the
51:10
transformative Insight imagery can help people, you know, not
51:15
just manage symptoms and create new behaviors, which is really
51:18
important and helpful. But let's go, let's go to the
51:22
heart of the matter. And let's, let's help you regrow
51:27
yourself up from the inside with compassion and love and support
51:34
so that you can say, like I had a client, say the other day,
51:37
it's a really tiny. Snell that wonders if I'm worthy
51:41
because there's a much louder voice that goes.
51:43
Heck, yeah, I am. Yeah.
51:45
Right. And that, isn't that what we all
51:47
want, right? What that part to be in charge
51:50
under part that goes? Yes I am worthy.
51:53
Yes, amen. Well, I mean this has been a
51:56
great conversation and so much information.
51:59
And where can everybody find you your website together?
52:03
Oh yes, my website is my name Kelly Underwood.com.
52:07
The trick is you have to spell my I named the way my mother
52:10
gave it to me which is kelly128, like, yes, the singer and no,
52:17
I'm not related to nor my related to the actor, Blair, and
52:24
I'm also on Facebook, Instagram. It's my name Kelly Underwood
52:27
LCSW, great, and yeah, and I have some upcoming stuff going
52:33
on. I'm actually just joined the
52:34
platform of Cee training and workshops and I'm going to be
52:38
doing An introduction to t.i. on there for three C's in July will
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be recorded and also offers some introduction on my website
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through just a course that you pay for without see.
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He's for folks who just want to experience it perfect love it.
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Really such great information and thanks for coming in today.
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Thanks for having me and find us at finding new Waters.com and on
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all streaming platforms. And we will talk to you guys
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next week. Thanks for having much.