Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 065: Miles City. Steven Rinella talks with his big brother Matt Rinella, along with Janis Putelis of the MeatEater crew.

Transcript

Ep. 065: Miles City. Steven Rinella talks with his big brother Matt Rinella, along with Janis Putelis of the MeatEater crew. · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything, all right, man? This is the first
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: this is this is the first session we've ever done
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to Miles City, Montana. I've sat at this table for
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a few other sessions before, but not just general generals.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Moving to the big league. Miles City town of nine
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: thousand has had nine thousand people living in it for
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: about one hundred years. Just doesn't it just it just
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: does it just doesn't change table place. So the uh,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to who's who? That's my older brother
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Matt's voice. Um. But first there's order, there's a little
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: bit of business take care of, okay, and then the
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: other thing is I don't know, is a little bit
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: of a uh discourse on the main negatives of um
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: raising game animals for food. Oh yeah, so here's the
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: main negative. There's aesthetics, right, which I care about a
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: great deal. But it's hard to come. It's like it's
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: hard to argue someone from the ground up. Aesthetics is hard.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: It's it's like it's hard to explain as someone who's
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: asking a pragmatic questions, So we'll leave aesthetics and like
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: matters of the heart and spiritual issues aside um disease vectors.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of problems with moving wildlife diseases around.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Wildlife diseases thrive in densely packed populations of animals that
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: are having oftentimes unnatural contact with one another. Um and
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the way mad cow disease and other There's some other
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: things that's moved around is between contact from pen raised
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: animals and wild animals. Um, you put a bunch of
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: deer in a farm, they all get sick. Wild you
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: come up, stick their nose through the fence. There you
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: have it. It also raises like some interesting historical questions
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: like you can't just go out and catch a deer. Okay,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: you can't go out and catch a deer and make
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: it yours. But at a time that happened, you know, so, Um,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: it just kind of subverts what I think is makes
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: wildlife beautiful. And when you're selling wildlife to people, you're
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: sort of taking a set uh an established thing of value,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and it has value to us because it's wild, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: you're capitalizing on that value and selling a false version
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: of it. That's the aesthetic part. Yeah, yeah, I never
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: thought about that, but it's very true. Back to Miles City, Son,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna lay a transition on you guys, is gonna
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: blow your mind to be prepared for that. But Miles City,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: UM takes his name from a fellow by the name
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: of General Miles. Miles City sits in Custer County, which
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: takes his name from a fellow named George, Brigadier General
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: George Armstrong Custer. And in Miles City is a place
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: called Fort Kyo, which is a Federal Livestock and Range
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: research laboratory. And Fort Keyo takes his name from a
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: fellow by the name of Miles Kio in around the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: ty of our nations, not around the time during our
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: nation's well about a week ahead of our nation's first
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: centennial in June, late June of eighty six. Um general
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: brigadier general. That means he's not a real general. So
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: there was so much attrition of generals during the Civil
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: War that they had to give some dudes temporary general ships,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: thinking that they would stock back up. The army I'm
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: talking about would stock back up with real generals. And
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: then you know, the brigadier generals would go back to
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: being whatever they were colonels. So Brigadier General George Armstrong Custer,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: who everybody knows, has the loss. I didn't know. I
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: never knew it. A brigadier man, it's like a temposer,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: General FoSER journal General uh Custer coming out of his
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Civil War fame famous also for having long hair, but
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: had just gotten a haircut, comes out to this area
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: with short hair about you know, a week or so
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: prior to the nation's centennial. In his task is to
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: be rounding up sue in northern Cheyenne Indians who have
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: not come into their reservations yet, and everybody knew that
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: they were fixing for a big fight. Um and Indians
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: who were living on reservations. We're so excited about the
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: upcoming fight that some of them were even evening reservations
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: for the simple thing to go out and fight soldiers
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: who are there to round up hostiles and bring him
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: into the reservations. Just like now in the war in Afghanistan,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: we talked about the fighting season because the Taliban doesn't
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: fight in the winter generally, UM summer was the fighting season.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So Custer comes out to this area, has some crow scouts,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: some ercorous scouts who were allied with the Whites with
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: our army. Um they were lifelong enemies, historic enemies with
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the Sioux and Northern Cheyenne. They find a big encampment
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of Sioue and Northern Cheyenne, so big that UM turns
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: out it was the largest collection of planes Indians to
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: have ever occurred, occurred before or after. The scouts found this,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: and they're like, man, this way too big. There's no
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: way we can go down in there. Custer didn't. No
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: one knows that he was thinking. Custer rides down in there,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a couple hundred of his soldiers, seventh Cavalry under his command,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and they just get slaughtered quick the Indians. Later a
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: lot of them became famous who participated the bat And
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: later they said, when we were talking about Custer riding
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: down into our camp after it happened, we all thought
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the only explanation was that they were all drunk. It
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: made so little sense. A guy named gall they asked
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: him how long did the fight take? He says, it
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: took a bottle long. About as long as it takes
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a hungry man to eat his dinner is how long
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: it took them to wipe out Custer and his two
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: hundred soldiers. Then they spent a long time, uh mutilating
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: all the carcasses. The next day, when some guys are
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: riding up the valley, they're riding up a little big
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: on which the Indians called the greasy grass, and they
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: get to the battlefield. They're assuming that Custer went in
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: there and one and they look off and they see
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: all these white and red, bloody kind of things going on,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and they thought it looked to them as though the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: white bloody stuff was buffalo carcasses and the brown patches
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: were buffalo hides. And they thought, oh, Custer caught them
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a buffalo hunt and run them
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: off while they were skinning carcasses. And they ride over there,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: and what they were looking at the brown patches were
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: dead horses, and the white bloody patches were stripped human carcasses.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: And they would do such things as they would want
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to make your afterlife miserable. So they would cut your
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: trigger fingers off so you couldn't shoot. They'd gash your
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: thighs so you couldn't run. They'd cut your dicking balls
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: off and stuff in your mouth, so you're just some
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: cold bloody so you couldn't make love. Um. A woman
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: by the name of big nose Kate, Yeah, is here
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you are every time you go to eat a woman
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: by the name of big nose Kate. Uh claimed that
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: she took a sewing all a northern Cheyenne woman and
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and jabbed it into Custer's ears um and to to
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: puncture his ear drums because her father had warned him,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: do not mess with us, and she thought that he
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: would have better hearing in the afterlife if she were
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: to add extra perforation into the side of his head.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Other historians think that they could. They didn't know it
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: was Custar. They knew Custar had long hair, but he
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: had just had a haircut. Portrayed with long hair. Yeah,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: but he went he wrote into that battle with short hair.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Remember that, like that beer stand, Custer's last stand. Yeah,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: over by where was that Belgrade or Yeah? We saw
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: always talk about stealing it. So I think we even
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: went and susted out one time. But it was pretty
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: well fixed, very well fixed, yea Custar. Yeah, and that
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: he had long hair, and movies he's always portrayed long hair.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: His he cut his hair off and his wife Libby
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: had a wig made from it. M hm um. Point being,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: there's two bodies that did not get mutilated. One uh
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: was buried under a pile of dead horses, and they
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: think it just was too much of a hassle to
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: drag him out of there and chop him up. Two
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Captain Miles Kyo hmm was not mutilated. Mm hmm. And
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: here's that transition I was telling you all about. Here's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: my brother works and works in four Keyo, four Kyo.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Do you guys are talking about Miles down there. No,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: we don't talk about any of this stuff ever. Have
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: you interesting to see how many of my co workers
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: could even um recite half of the facts that you
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: just recited about the history of four Kyo? Um? So,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: is there any speculation on why why they didn't mutilate Kyo?
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: He um had some He was an irishman, a heavy drinker,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: and he was wearing some kind of uh Celtic I'd
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: had to look it back up, but some kind of
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: like Celtic Christian E Combo type emblem around his neck,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and it's speculated that like like it was like an
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: adorned cry I can remember some kind of adorned cross
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: or something, and it was speculated that he UM, they
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: didn't recognize that. They speculated that he might have been
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: some kind of religious figure. It's one thing that he
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: might have been, that he might have been had some
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: some medicine right, and they didn't and they didn't mutilate him.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Now there was So there was a guy, a crow
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: guy named Curly who claimed that he witnessed the battle
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and escaped. Most people believe that. Um, he left the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: night before, got yellow and left night before. Gall the
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: guy that said how long it took? That took as
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: long as it takes a hungry man to eat his meal. Um.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: He later met Curly and he told Curly, if you're
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: telling me that you escaped after that battle, you must
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: have turned into a bird. Is the only explanation. Because
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: he was not buying. He said, they killed everything, but
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: they messed up because a horse got away. A horse
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: by the name of Comanche got away with something like
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: nine wounds. Um. That's where kio I just learned something
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: interesting about. Uh. Was it Brigadier general Brigadier General George
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Hns John Keo? Was he just a captain? Captain? Okay?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So you know, if you think about the years between UM,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the Indian Wars in the West and World War One.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Like if you think of the year, it starts to
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: bleed together. Oh man, But just like in the in
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: my mind, and I suspect this is the way for others.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: You think of them as being way far apart. But
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I guess Captain Kio was instrumental in UH in General
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Jack persh Ing um, black Jack Pershing UH making his
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: way through the ranks to become the commanding general in
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: World War One. He was like, oh, he's a promising
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: young man. Yeah, because black Jack Pershing is the guy
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: that tried to go down and catch Pancho Villa. Right,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: they must have um uh collaborated on some kind of
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: project to military projects in the West and UH and
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Kio was a big advocate for for him. Now if
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: you if you listeners get done with this and you're like,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: what should I do? Now? If you want to hear
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a good song, UM, go listen to Tonight We Ride,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: which is about black Jack person's pursuit of Pancho Villa
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: which proved fruitless. M hm um row downd sent me
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: that song. Yeah, roll down into Mexico into the Mountain range.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Known as God's middle finger, the uh Sierra Madre and
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: couldn't find him. Um, and then tonight we ride kind
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: of follows the lives of a number of people who
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: who ride with pershing and UM, don't catch Poncho via
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Poncho Villa. If he made it, he lived till the
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: thirties and then was assassinated, um in a car so
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: in Mexico. Yes, so, um llamas? How many? How many
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: pag lamas do you own? Right now? Boy? We just
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: jumped right, We just kind of jumped into this because
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I did a good segue earlier and then I got
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: just tired of segue. I thought it should be like
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: a twenty minute like where we talked about like this
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: my being my first podcast. I was just curious, like
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: did he get edited at all? Now there's cases in
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: which it would get edited, like if I said something
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: extremely racist or something, yes, that would be edited, or
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: if you which I would said something that was like
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: way off and then you said, man, can you take
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that out? If all of a sudden I realized that
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: like if I started talking about how much I didn't
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: like our mother or something like that, you might know
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I would unless you change your mind. But let's say, il, mom,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I love you. I was just a hypothetical. Yeah, but
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: let's say I went and realized that Kath and Keo
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: in fact had been mutilated and Um had his junk
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: stuff into his mouth. I would then I would try like, man,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you guys are responsible like that, and you try to
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: keep it. What will often happen to is sometimes not often,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: but now and then we'll have like a person on
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: whose job it is to know something and then in
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: in the asking of like a hundred things get rattled
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: or whatever and they'll not know something, and then and
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: then be like, please, it's just so embarrassing. It's rare,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and you've demonstrated, you've demonstrated the occasional cost word is
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: not bad. Yeah, but I wouldn't go out of your way. Um,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: how about like, um, can I sing copyrighted songs? If like,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: if I take a good question, there's like there's a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: there's a limit. I know that there's a you know, like,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: if you quote a song in a book, which I've done,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: there's a it's it's spelled out in good detail. Um,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: how many lines you can use under like a fair
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Now here's the interesting. Here's the interesting thing if you
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: were gonna say, let's say you were in a situation
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: where you were gonna say, you know, it's interesting, uh
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: how llamas have been treated in popular music over the years.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm now gonna recite and sing a handful of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: songs in a way that will demonstrate a point and
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: illustrate something about like the fascial nature of culture and
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and sort of the collective experience we all have and
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: understanding something. Then you would be able to go and
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: rip through a bunch of copyrighted material and possibly be
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: covered under a fair use thing because I'm using it
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: for demonstrative purposes. You know. Wow, it's very complicated. Yeah,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: it is, and we don't have that kind of so.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I remember once when I was in I would have
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: been my late teens early twenties, I went and saw
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: a Blood, Sweat and Tears reunion concert, and uh, the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: guy was talking about how Milli Vanilli had just stole
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: one of his riffs and he was all excited because
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: he got enough money from the settlement to redo his kitchen.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Is there talk about a Yeah, spinning wheel. Got to go, Oh,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I hope that's not too many lines. No, No, you
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: definitely definitely across the line there, and it's usually good
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: practice too credited. So even if you if you're writing
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: a book and you want to share like some lyrics, Okay,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: when I was doing I did a book and I
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the song putting on the Ritz, right,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: So in there you'd say it like Irving Berlin, Okay,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: wrote a song and in the song or said these words,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: and you're attributing it, and then you can there's a
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: then there's a limit on how much you can get
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: away with you. That's like the same way that you
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: can quote. Um, you can quote a book at length,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: right oh right, yeah, but you can't just like quote
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: be like a dirty trick or you just say like,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: here's a book for you, here's a quote for you,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: and then just put the whole book right right. Yeah?
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: So are you? Are you not cool to prost to
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: eve with the Yeah? I only know of one song
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: with the lament. It's a Frank Sinatra song I don't
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: even know the name of. But he says something about
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: lamas in Peru or something like That's that's a good
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: clean segue. Wat's just Johnnie, so our lamas native to Prue.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I don't well the fact that you asked me, oh, why, yes,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: they are. I thought it was a trick question because
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: let me just tell you, because I know that that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: was quick. But let me just tell you one of
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the main thing I want to talk about after a
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: lengthy preamble, I want to talk about, um, like you're
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: sort of personal voyage with Llamas. Not that that's the
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: not that that's like, uh, the only interesting thing about you,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: but I think it's just the thing that, um, I'm comfortable,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: like the most like aresting thing about like that people
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: just generally do not know about. Oh yeah, yeah. And
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I think within that, um, there's a lot that brings
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: out a lot of things about your personality, your approach
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: to life. Okay, Um, you're kind you're kind of journey
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: as a as an elk hunter, right. I feel that
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: it's like a thing that sort of captures all that. Yeah. Yeah, Um,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: do you want me to well, yeah, start with um sciatica. Yeah,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I started. Uh. I remember it was after um moose
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: hunt with you and Danny and a couple other guys. Uh.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Who's Dan rafferty right, hardcore Jeffie, Yeah, Matt Raffer, Matt Rafferty. Yeah. Um,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: and after that, I just I thought I had a
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: torn hamstring. And after four or five months of bea
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that hurt, oh pretty far down your leg from my
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: ass to my knee and my left leg interestingly enough
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that it's it tends to flick the left leg more
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: than the right. Oh for you or for everybody, because
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I have pain right now and that you just made
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: me nervous when he said where it was minds my
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: right Well, that doesn't rule it out. You probably gotta
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: hert needed disk, I gotta run. Um. I'm always fascinated
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: by stuff like that. That's like uh um asymmetric in
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the human in there, I guess in the human body
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: because it's just I know our hearts on one side.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: And but like, what do you mean, Oh, that that's
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: something with restless legs that would tend to be in
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: a certain leg. Restless leg syndrome is the same way.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: It tends to be in the left leg. And I'm like, wow,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: occurs in my right leg. Oh, I wonder if my
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: heart's on their side. That's it? Yeah, that that is
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: that is puzzling. Yeah, but your body is it's weird
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: that your body is like a little out of whack
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and that your that your heart is displaced off center.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm yeah. Um, neck problems are more common on
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: the right. I've learned because I have some neck issues now.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just I'm sure there's obviously there's
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: good explanations for all this stuff, but it just makes
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you realize that things are more complicated than you. You're
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: at a point in life where, um, where you're starting
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: to kind of fall apart a little bit. Yeah, for sure,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: for sure, I'm I'm probably well to man I used
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: to be, but that's still most more man than most people.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: But I don't think you're that low. But just as
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: far as having this disc yeah, that's that's true, then,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: by golly, you must have been hard to keep up
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: with ten years ago. Yeah. Indestructible, Um, indestructible. No, my
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: problems have been well behaved lately. I'm feeling because for
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: a while Matt his one of his arms shrank. It's
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: still a shrunk. Hasn't come back. I can, like you
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: know how you do those where it's like a football
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: throw where you got your hand behind your head and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: you're extending your arms upwards with a weight in it. Yeah,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: on my left I can do ten reps of that
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: with thirty five pounds, no problem. But with my wilted
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: arm because it's my tricept that's wilted, it's twenty pounds
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: and it's a bit yeah you know. So yeah, it's
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: still but the pain isn't as bad. I don't know.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: We don't have a backup to the sciaticum. So yeah,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: I uh, I started getting this pain in my left leg.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: It took a long time to diagnose. And you thought
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: you'd messed it up carrying moose quarters. I know I did.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Danny and I Danny and you and I ended up
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: at this moose car because I don't know how. I
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: think he was up there and he shot up off
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: the river. We were camped down and remember river, remember that,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and um he shot a moose and I think you
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and I he came back down and found us, and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: we all three went up there and carried a bunch
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: out and we loaded up three backpacks. And I don't remember.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Somebody couldn't carry E There's and I ended up carrying
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: there's form and we traded, Yes, wasn't me? I had
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: probably Danny? No, really? Yeah, And I was like, I'll
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: show these sons of bitches, and it was we've carried
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: some like yeah, but here's the way I know that
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: you're a little bit messed up because there was no
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: situation where someone went and killed the bull and came
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: back and got people. I am telling you. It was
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the three of us carrying Danny's moves. He shot the
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: first moose on that land right next to when he
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: shot it. Oh then I ended up too. Oh then
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: he didn't come back down that. Okay, I'm just messed
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: up on that. But we were all there at the carcass.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Were all there at the carcass. I watched him shoot that.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I have no recollection. I still I still remember. Uh yeah,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: it came from way off. He kept coming coming coming
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: back with a spinal trauma of carrying it like somehow
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: rattled my brain. So you're saying that someone said I
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: can't carry my pack. Yeah I was you. You said,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I'm it's coming back to you now. You said, I
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: help take Danny's pack. He is struggling and I took
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: it pack. Well, he took mine. He just ended up
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: with a bigger Oh yeah, okay, that's more plaus and
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: uh it was the next day that I was like,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: things are different with my body, and you know, I
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: live for that stuff, you know, so for going in
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the back country and hunting, that's like, that's what keeps
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: me going. So I knew I had to change something.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: And when I started getting when I started thinking about llamas,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I was thinking of them as, um just a quieter
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: version of a quad runner that you could take into
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: a wilderness area. I was thinking of them as, uh,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: just an instrument for carrying heavy items. Yeah, because you
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: don't have a lick of At the time, you didn't
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: have like a lick of of of live stocky interest,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Well you've developed I had at that time. But that
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I got those llamas, I had two chickens. Oh yeah,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: that's true, and I fell in love. That's true. I
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: fell in love with those chickens. And you initially kicked
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: around the idea of um more traditional pack stock, did
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I hear? Did you not seriously consider that? I thought
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I thought I thought mules thought about mules? Yeah, maybe
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I don't remember, but pretty quickly settled on Now, what
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I don't like about a mule is um, I find
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: that that kind of like hunting horses, and mules and
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: stuff is like the kind of thing that if you
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: don't grow up around it, it's very I think it
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: would be very hard to catch up. Oh yeah to
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: someone that did more. I mean, horses I know are
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: from my wife, I know are extremely dangerous. My wife
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: has a guest ranch and she strongly discourages me from
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: interacting with horses for packing purposes. Um because I know,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: but mules are supposed to be way more dangerous. They could.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I guess they have some kind of joint configuration that
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: allows him to kick in not just straight back, but
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to the side, and I don't know. Yeah, yeah, they
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: scare me. And the thing about it is like in
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: time I've spent with people who grew up around him,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: when they're looking at one, they're seeing something a lot
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: different than what I see when I look at one
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that oh I think they're cute, but oh yeah, but
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh no, he's like in a kind of
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: bad moon. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like he's yeah, you
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: can tell he's got like he's a little bloated, kind
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: of in a bad moon. And I'm like, yeah, yeah,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: it looks like the same meal that was there an
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: hour ago. Yeah. Um, I was in this guy's shop
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: getting something. Well did if this is like ten years
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: ago and he had all these pictures if he had
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: riding mules that he hunted in the mountains with and
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: uh he I started ask him about them. He said, yeah,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: last last year, and I don't remember two years ago.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: He said, I had to get rid of them all.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: And he he was borderline kind of breaking down a
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: little bit right in front of me. And I just
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: had met the man, and he said, yeah, it's just
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: too dangerous when you're getting a little older and your
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and your reflexes aren't as good. Really. Yeah, he spent
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: his whole life with him. And he was like, but yeah,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: it sounds like he's hunting with mountain lions or something
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: instead of one of my earliest what do they call
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: my hunting mentour. But when I moved to Colorado, he
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: was a fellow that owned a small like hunting and
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: fishing shop and uh, like a retail space. Yeah, and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: he gave me good advice early on to go find
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: some rabbits. One of my favorite fishing stretches bulged his
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: rabbit spot, divulged his rabbit spot, and uh, I think
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: he could have cared less, but he did have a
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: really nice trout river and uh, anyways, he sold his
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: business and I think like within months I was on
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: a horse lost it, hit his head died. Really, Gountil,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: you got that rabbit spot when you did, he'd have
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: carried it with him. That's coincidence. But you know cruze
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: that point. Um can you, Matt, can you real quick?
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Can you real quick? This is a this is a
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: segue or not a segue but an a side. Can
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: you real quick explain how you came to realize that,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: uh that burning a moose dropping smells like like oh yeah,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: there was no creativity or like, um, sense of exploration
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: on my part. It's not like my try burning let's
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: try burn him to see what it smells like. The
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: guy that the guy that married me and my wife.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: He's kind of a he's a long time term friend
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: of my life, but he's kind of a grizzled like
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: grew naturalist kind of a fellow and a grizzled, a
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: grizzled fellow who works with grizzly bears. He does work
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: with grizzly bears, not with him, but looks at him.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um he I was at his house one
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: night and he all night there was this very pleasant
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: smell in the room. It smelled like, you know how
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: willows and aspen had that smell in the spring, like
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: if you go down to a river when they're starting
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: to leaf out, you're talking to Johnny Aspen over here,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Yahnny Aspen. And then if you take one of those buds,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: it's real sticky and you smell it smells so freaking good.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: That's what smelled like. But this was in the winter.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: And finally he didn't say anything about it. I just
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: looked and he like lighting one of these things moose pellets. Yeah, um,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: he's He teaches at a wilderness school and one of
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: his students on this retired airline pilot. Uh. He showed
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: that pilot that trick, and the pilot started a company
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: called Moose Sense in Missoula, Montana, where you can get online,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you buy a little incense burner and they send you
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: some pellots. Is your buddy Piste. No, he don't care.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: He you know, he was he wasn't looking at he
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: wasn't thinking of as an entrepreneurial thing. Yeah. I don't
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: know a whole lot about business, but I mean, I
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: gott that's got to be kind of like a fringe business.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine he's making more doing that than he
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: was as an airline pilot. That'd be I'd be interesting.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: So there you were a lot of pain between your
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: ass and neat and not to thinking that the good
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: times are through. Right, had start hunting white tails out
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: of trees, right, if I could hobble up a tree
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: still that maybe I could rescue some fraction of my
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: haunting lifestyle. But then Lamas came to the rescue. Uh.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: My first two Llamas were Haggy and Timmy, like rescue rescue.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: You came to the rescue, I came to the rescue.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: They were uh, kind of an ad hoc Lama rescue
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: center in Idaho, and I started communicating with a woman
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: there that sold Lama. It was called Lama Hardware is
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the name of the company is still in existence, but
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: as a different owner about I don't know why I
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: started chatting with her about saddles and gear before I
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: even had Lamas. But she was the one that found
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: these two Lamas. They were brother and sister. Uh uh,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and those were my first Lamas. I remember, I was
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: with you when I first light laid eyes on them.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Over by. We went and went to a fellow named
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Jerry's place. Jerry Hansen and Billings, Montana lives on the Yellowstone.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: And if I'm not mistaken, from his window, he was
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: showing us an old spot where he I believe could
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: be wrong. That uh, an old spot where Calamity Jane. Oh,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I don't have any recollection of that Calamity Jane had
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: domes siled or something from I could be wrong. And
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: those things came on. They came off that trailer and
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: they were like as wild as if you went down
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: to South America and climbed up into the Andies and
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: found out Lama. And at the end of the day,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Jerry had clipped their tone nails, put a saddle on
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: them and walked them around and crossed some creeks, cross
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: creeks with yeah, and uh. Quickly they went from being
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: uh get grasspowered four wheelers four wheelers to being just
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: uh pets kind of. I mean, they didn't think of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: themselves as pets. They they got tame enough to pack.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: But to me, I just I just marveled at him.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: I thought they were like them so much. Yeah, it
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: became and even now it's more this way. And even now,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: like I do most of my hunting alone, and a
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: big part of the attraction is being out there with
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: my I have four pack llamas now, being out there
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: with my my buddies. Um, I want to get just
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: a couple. I do want to get back to that,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: but just I want to give people a little bit
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of a sense here. So you got them because you'd
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: like to hunt uh in the back country? Yeah, and
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and and and and and there's fake back country, but
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, like by any like, by any working definition
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: from the lower forty eight, we're talking like some of
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the most some of the most bad country stuff outside
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: of areas that you might encounter in the Frank Church
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: or Bob markin. Yeah, five d eight mile back like
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: the back in and then you know when you kill out,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: you're moving. You probably know better than anybody scale you gotta,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I gotta, you gotta get the You put some meat
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: on one side, some on the other in a thing
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: called a panier um, and it's gotta be with the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: llama that you recommend within one or two pounds. Look
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: at that. There's a woman across the street picking wild asparagus.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you if an asparagus must be
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: at her Well, I don't know, I could, but it's
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: somebody else's properties. Matt, just another side, not Matt. You know,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: no trespassing signs, man, you're on mass property. He put
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: along the road signs and say trespassing aloud. Yeah, nobody
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: has taken me up on that. And oddly he had
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: a hard time finding a sign. Had had to commission
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: his own, the custom maga's own trespassing a loud signs
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: because they are not for sale at Walmart. Now you
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: don't say I pulled up Oh that's yeah. This is
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the first year I've had those. I've gotten some compliments
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: on them. People kind of understand what I'm going for
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: with him. You know old Man and Eugene Growners, if
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: someone put up no trespassing signs, they would go and
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: just take them down. Well, it was ridiculous up where
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: up for this guy. We This is a guy we
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: idolized his children. He was a just a crazy, uh,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: funny as hell guy that was kind of a hunting
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: fishing mentor to us. And he had a cabin quote
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: unquote north from where we grew up which seemed like
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: you're driving. It seemed like it was a million miles
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: into the Great Beyond. It's like we're away, and uh yeah,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: you're It's like you drove to Alaska there and then
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: now when you drive your like this is. I went
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: there a couple of years ago to see the old
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: cab and but those guys were ridiculous. I mean they
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: had a no trespassing sign on every freaking tree on
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the border of their land. Yeah, um um yeah. So.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And you know what I think about the other day
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: is how crazy it is that how quick it is
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: that when you eat asparagus it smells in your pee.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: It's like twenty minutes. There's something in there. I've read
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: it's related somehow. And Harold McGee's very wonderful book, Um
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: The Science and Lore of Cooking, He talks at length
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: about why asparagus makes your pist smell. I have the
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: same thing with coffee, though, do you have that makes
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: you pis smell like asparagus? My first peet every morning?
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: If I just left, you'd go in there and be
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: like someone poured a cup of coffee and really, yeah,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you're leaving a lot of coffee goodness. In the on
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: the table. It sounds like, remember it's still brown. You
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: know why beer goes through you're so quick, right, because
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have changed color? All right? So yeah, how
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: many pounds and out? So because I'm saying because you
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: know better, you know everybody speculating, but you have to
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: measure your out. I used to say all the time,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I've never gotten a big bull, um, but a young bull,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: like a four point five point youngster maybe two three
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: years old. Uh, two pounds. I've shot two bulls boneless,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: bone less meat. I shot to a little older bulls
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: six points that we're two fifty cows typically one sixty.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: And That's what I've been saying for the last several years.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: And so you're talking, um, all the meat off the bone,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: so boning out all the ribs, not taking anything, packing
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: the heart bones about it, packing the heart out and
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: then gross shanks. Yeah, leaving on the ground guts bone yeah. Um,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and uh that I do love it. If you were listening,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: if you you hear people say like, oh I had
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: a hunter pound pack, a hundred pound pack a lot. Yeah,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: you can do it, you can do it. We used
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: to do it one home. I know I didn't even
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: know what they weighed when we were doing it, but
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: now I know because we would move. We would would
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: take out a whole elk. We would move a cow
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: elk and our camping gear in a trip. No that's
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: not true. No, we'd always go back for our camping
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: gear a couple of weeks later after we could walk again. Yeah,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: you know what, I remember one year we left it
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: and wait and didn't go get it till rifle opened
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah. Um, then to eighty pound packs,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: then six, Well, but we carried out bulls in one trip.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, now you're taking out antlers and yeah, yeah,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: so I think that first bull you got with your
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: bowl that was seven miles and we took out the
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: whole animal and one trip and came back for the
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: gear a different weekend. And remember, oh yeah, that was
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: a different one. I would say that was the one
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: where we went back and grizzlies had eaten all that.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: That was a different one. Yeah. But that so people
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: say like, oh, I had a hundred pound pack. Yeah,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: it is possible, but it's it's like it is not
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: good for you. There is no noo. Guys in the
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: military carry that kind of man. They should change that,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: like there's it's just you're compromising your later years. Yeah.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I think they say in the military that you're expected
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: to carry a happy body weight. I think I felt one,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: especially those areas where you gott to carry out of
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: water where they're carrying water and and you can just imagine,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I'll expense how heavy ammunition is, you know. But um,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: when when you first moved out here, we were so
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: excited to hunt in the mountains and we just didn't
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: care painful pack of man. It would be like you'd
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: get to a thing. It used to happen us in
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: the area we hunted. We had to drive. It was
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: probably about maybe like a thirty or forty minute drive
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: to the closest gas station, and you'd get down to
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: the trailhead and like load your elk into the rig,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: get in and then and then drive to the gas
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: station and you'd oftentimes be locked up. You'd be stove
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: up by the time you got there. I remember walking
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: this lodge for dinner and you're like walking like a
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: cowboy going to a gunfight, you know, like very hard
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: to get out of the vehicle, very hard to go
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: in there and order. Um being burrito and the gatorade
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: at the at the brown food station of the gas station,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: and um, yeah, it's grueling. Man. If you ever heard
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: that story, like Ryan Callahan's on your podcast, A lot
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I know about um a guy I think it was.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: He was an outfitter that Ryan used to work for
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: that shot a mountain goat. Oh you've got to hear
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: that story. I can tell right now. But to take
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: three minutes and then heavy pack outs and sued, yeah,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: is it worth it? Oh, it's such a good story.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Um So, I don't really give a sh if we
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: covered his lama thing, but I would like to wait,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: how much how far are you in? Are we now? At? All? Okay?
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Um So, Ryan, this boss shoot some mountain goat eight
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: miles back. He told me this at the cabin when
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: we were fishing last summer. Shoots a mountain go eight
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: miles back in the mountains. And he's going to carry
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: the whole sun of a bit out, which we all
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: three knows a lot of weight if you're taking the
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: high and he but he's like, I'm gonna take my time,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: you know. Um, And he's because he just did not
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: want to walk back. Well, I didn't want to walk
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: into her sixteen miles, you know, for a second trip. Um.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: So he's finishing up and processing it, getting it packed up,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and here comes a grizzly bear and he puts his
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: pack on it, starts to get out of there, and
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that bears following him, and that bear merciless. Merciless, he
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: followed him the whole eight miles back to his car.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Huh smelling that blood. Yeah, so they instead of taking
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: his time, the guy was like, uh, I'm gonna, I'm
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: freaking not stopping, gets back, gets in his car and
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: drives into Uh. Oh, it's right by Clearwater Junction where
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: my wife's ranches outside of Missoula. Why can't I um
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: think of the name of the town but her her
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: stag No, it's just east of there, like Connor. No. Oh,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: it's ridiculous, but anyway, it's the it's the it's the
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: second closest bar to the ranch, and her staff goes there.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: There's a bar there called Tricksies. Not not Greeno. No. Um,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: there's a bar there called Trixie's. In this little town.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: That's where all her staff goes. They always have bands
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: there and stuff like that. And you go there yeah. Um,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I remember when we got married. Fits and Pooter, your
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: college roommates went there and they thought it was like
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Dusk till Dawn and the bar and dust till Dawn,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: that Quentin Tarantino movie. Um, and uh, So he pulls
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: in there and it's in the fall when nothing's going
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: on and sunset, no twin creeks, no van. Oh yeah.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: So he pulls in the driveway and his legs won't
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: work at all, and there's no one in the bar.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: He can tell because there's no cars in the parking lot,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: and he lays on the horn and the bar keep
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: comes out and he has her, has her get him
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: a six pack, and um, she goes and gets it.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: He pays for it, and she sits in the truck
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: with him, just chit chatting, and they end up becoming
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: a couple. Really. Yeah, that's a good story because yeah, yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: are they married? Now? You know they ended up splitting up.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I was hopeful when I asked, did they get married? No?
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. Oh yeah, um yeah, why is it?
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Why is it that makes the story just a little Yeah,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I can stick about it like you'd be like, oh yeah,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: you know this old you know this guy and he
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: goes like what I was in World War Two, I'm
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: just making this up right, gets gravely injured, and this
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: nurse comes out and slowly nurses him back to health
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: right towards you, and you're like, oh, so they yeah,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: but now they got nineteen grandkids for it. And You're like, no, no,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: they dated and broke up. It's just like it just
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the punch. Yeah. I love my wife very
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: very much. Um, but even if I didn't, I think
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I try to make it work just so could have
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: a romantic ending. You know that we because you would
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: want people to be like, no, I'd be for myself,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: just my own myth. You know that we pulled it
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: through and made it work. I don't know. Do you
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: remember when you drew of course you remember you drew
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: him out. Speaking of long walks, you drew a mountain
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: goat tag many many years ago, and we got up
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: pretty early at a trailhead. Mike Mullen. Interesting fellow, this
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Mike Mullen, because he came to my wedding. That was
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the first time I've seen him in twelve years. Just
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. I stopp talking about marriage
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: and being I'm sorry, Yeah, mentioned is about your wife,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: So that's good. So I want as much as I
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: love her, I'm not gonna I'm gonna try to abstain
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: from mentioning the rest of this conversation. Interesting fellas. Mike
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Mullen and I just gonna touch on this before I
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: talked about the Mountain goat. You you got everyone knows
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: now because of like grizzly berry issues and grizzly berry
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: recovery and whatnot in the greater Yellostone ecosystem. But then
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: you guys here like it's like, ah, I call it
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: one of those like Malcolm GLADWELLI and phenomenons are people
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I love to act, like, oh, it's really going out
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: with grizzy berries. You see who's Malcolm? Oh he writes
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: those books where he's like, oh, if you want to
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: understand the whole world, you just gotta understand like dog
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: leash that you know, or like whatever I've never heard of.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I could picture that. It's like he traffics and he's
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: like the sum of knowledge through Yeah, like oh, everything
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: you ever want to just got a hockey right out.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: So he um um. He had a he had a
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: he's very popular writer. He's a lot smarter than I am.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: But um uh, Mike Mullen, oh sorries people talking about grizzlies.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: The thing they like to bring up is that that
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: the grizzlies don't have access to cut throat trout anymore.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: And then always struck me like, well, okay, yeah, you
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: gotta Yellowstone Lake. He's have a population of a nadrumous
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: cuts right there would come out of the lake and
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: arout the rivers in the spring and grizzlies and eat them.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: And every his eye was like, oh, that's why the
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: grizzies are you know whatever. They never make it because
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: lake trout got turned loose and Yellowstone Lake and the
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: lake trout desk, you know, non natives are getting testy
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: because they don't have anymore. You don't know, you don't
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: know this whole narrative. Yeah, I'm just helping you. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: So Lake Chalk introduced and Yellostone Lake, they decimate the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: cutthroat population. And now people talk about this like thing
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: that like, you know, this big driving factor and grizzly
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: dynamics as the lack of cutthroat trout that are coming
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: up out of that lake. And turns out they had
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: done some analysis on this and about ten percent of
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: the bears in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem might have utilized
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: cut through. So I didn't know that part. So because
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: that it was struck me, like you hear the same
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: thing about pine nuts from white bark mine, which is
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: much more plausible. I never I could never get on
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: board with the idea that that that losing an ephemeral
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: like like some small fish for a brief period of time,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: being available in a stream, in a couple of streams.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that can't be enough now pine nuts. I
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: was like, if you'd told me that every bear is
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: gonna when the pine nut epidemic rolled through that region,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: if you just said all bears will die now, would
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: have been like, yeah, that sounds like right right. I
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: agree with that. It's much more widespread food source that's
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: available for potentially a longer period of time. It's incredibly important,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: but I think it's not important if you listen to
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: the man. They're too adaptable. They got problem. There's they
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: have vulnerabilities, but that's not one of them anyhow. So
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: there's a big thing to like go kill off all
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: these lake trout and they dropped. There's no bag limit,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: no close season, and I think you're not even supposed to. Yeah,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: you're not even supposed to turn one of these lake
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: trout loose if you catch him. And Mike Mullin gets
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: win to this big late trout epidemic and what's it called?
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: When it's too much of something? You wouldn't call the epidemic,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: would you? What would you call like a swarm of locusts? Yea?
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: And that not that doesn't work happen, We'll just call
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: it the weather works not. We'll just all agree that
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: it was a lake trout epidemic. Mike Mullen gets a
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: winto this and goes down and he's like, well, I'll
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: do my part, and it starts going down there and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: catching a lot of lake trout. But then realize he
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: likes lake trout fishes so much. He starts to worry
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: for the future of these lake trout which everyone's trying
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: to get rid of. And one day I'm talking to
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: him and he's talking about how he caught a couple
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: and turned a bunch of lewis. I said, I thought
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: you weren't supposed to turn those loose, and he told me, well,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just real afraid of damage in that fishery. He
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: came with us on this goat hunt and we walk
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Who else is there, Colonel Matt Moyson, Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: It wasn't Yeah, absolutely right. And we got up pretty
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: early and walked nine miles and climbed a lot of footage,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and I remember getting I remember getting where. I felt
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: like by the time that goat was on the ground,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I was feeling like I was gonna vomit. Yeahs, but
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: setting in. But the magical thing about it, I don't
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: want to get too much way, but there's an area
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: that has there's an area where Matt still frequents a
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: little bit that. Um if you go in this area
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: in like September, say, there are no elk there. No,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: And we've made a mistake of think this is an
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: interesting story. There are no elk there. Okay, they're just
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: not I've gone in there twice now, they're just not there.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: They're not there. But then the first week of October,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: there they are. And we discovered that when we were
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: up goat hunting at goat at ten thousand feet in
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: the mountains, like in this like, no, we discovered we
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: did they when? And how right? No? No, no, that's
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: when we discovered that it even happened. Absolutely because my
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: girlfriend after that hunt, we're like all day were up
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: there at ten thou feet in this craggy pass where
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: no elk ever lived. They would just go through there.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: They would just there and it was snowing and it
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: was foggy, and we're going to go over and we're
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: gutting that that gutting that got and skinning it. And
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: you could hear do it Johnnie the way off Bugle.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I'll buy it. Yeah, it sounded like the Rickle a
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: guy a little bit with that. Wasn't your best. No,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: you go doing it as because you know me do it.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: He can do it. Way Off Bugle is a good
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: caller for anything, very good caller. Do one more yeah,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: way off Pgle And through the fog and snow, we
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: see l going over that pass. That will always remember
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: that now. And then the next weekend I hiked into
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: where I thought they were going with my girlfriend and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: it was Elizabeth and um, Elizabeth Roberts, think about you
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: once in a while. I love you a baby, That's
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: not true, but um uh. So we hiked in there,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: and you and I had already hunted in there because
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: we went in there in June and there was alcohol
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: over the place where the oh this is the place
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: to go el conti And that was when we first
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: moved out. And then we were right now, you're right,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you're right now. And then we went back and we
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: sat there one time and counted we were back in June.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: We're leaning against a tree that had a chickadee hole
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: in it, saw a black bear. Counted like girlfriend counted,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: counted two. You saw a mountain land streaking down through there.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: And then we went in there and tried to We
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: were like, oh, this is the spot where all the
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: elk live. And we went in back in there in September.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: There was none because they just are there in the
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: spring in the winter. Yeah, that's right, that's right. And
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: then we found so uh, what I want to talk
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: about that is that night we went up and didn't
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: want it grizzly to get it, so we wrapped that
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: goat up in the tree up in a subalpine fur yeah,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: right by our camp. But it got real cold and
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: that goat hide froze up in the tree. Do you
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: were how long we're up there climbing up that tree
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: trying to get that thing back. Now it was stuck
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: to this we had all wrapped up in the hims
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and it froze like a rock and we couldn't get
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: it back down. No, I don't remember that. I remember
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: we were packing out. We ran into four dudes up
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: there that we're fishing those lakes up there. I don't
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: remember that. I was like, really, you guys came all
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the way up here into freaking fridges to fly fish. Yeah,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: not even a goat tag in their pocket. Another quick
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: gold story I like chairs. This happened to a friend
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: of ours come out of the Air Force named Chuck Roberts.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: He shot a goat and it spilled off a cliff,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: and um as their wanting to do and and uh.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: He started trying to climb down there to try to
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: get where he's going. So he came up one drainage,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: went to the ridgeline, shot the goat, and the goat
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: fell off the other side. Starts climbing down trying to
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: go down and find the guy again. Remember that dude.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: The first time first, I think it was the first
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: time we ever went caribou hunting on the north Slope.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: That dude out of the Air Force. He used to pay, Yeah,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: he used to pay. Yeah, he used to pay b twos.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: And he wouldn't answer any questions about b twos because
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: it was all classified. But how have you fitting one
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: of them? B twos? Chuck, don't know? That guy was
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: an accomplished outdoorsman. Man. He was. He had all he like,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: his gear was impeccable because he had worked, he had
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: worked packing moves for a guy out in the peninsula.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: I thought he was good, not an experience, not an
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: experience outdoors. He had spent some time. Good guy. Maybe
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: not experienced, but good. Yea. He might have just had
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: been good from the he had gone out and packed
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: meat for an outfit or out on the peninsula. Remember
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: he had um he had what surprise me is I
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: remember he had a loophold spot and scope and some
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: loophole knockers, which is yeah, yeah, um he You know.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I hunted with him, just him and I for a
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: couple of days, and he was definitely the boss, like
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: I deferred to him, like I was just doing what
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: he told me. I'm not trying, I'm not trying to
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: say anything bad about him, but anyhow, tries to go
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: down to get the goat, and the climns climbs, clients climbs,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: and uh, it gets dark and it was so steep
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: where he was that he took some paracord and tied
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: himself to some alders to sleep. Wow and send up
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Wow gets daybreak, continues down looking for a state, finds
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: that there's a bear had just eaten it. Oh my god,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: really punch his tag and now he's in the other drainage.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: So he's like, I o to hell him. I could
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: climb back up and go back the way I came,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: and walks out that drainage and why I can't already said?
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: He winds up thirteen miles from his truck or something
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: man and its peeled way off went off some other direction.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: My father in law, um, the father of a person.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to mention the US this conversation. Uh,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: he shot a goat in the Louis did really in
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: the This is like six seven years ago now, in
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: the bare tooths and freaking he was Dad, try to go, yeah,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: it's in their house mounted like the head. I mean,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: not that it's surprised when he's not a he's like
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: a tea. Yeah. Yeah, he's more of a cowboy than
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: a hunter type dude. He does a little of the hunting.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: So he went, like, I got to put in for
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: a tag drawing with a friend of his. They went
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: back on horses. He shot this goat and like as
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: soon as the thing hit the ground, there was a
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: grizzly on it, but they ran it off and got it.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: They got it. Yeah, I had to go fall twelve feet. Yeah, yeah,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I know you did. It was like you told me that.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: It was like a bag with bone fragments and meat
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: inside of Ye, it's it's The horns were on, the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: head was split open um, the brain was gone, The
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: lungs were tucked up in the between the shanks and
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: the hide. The hide was completely loose. You just had
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: to make your opening incisions in the hide fell free. Yeah,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: abs not just you know what. I took that hide,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: so we went, we dug through it and got a
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: little game bag full of meat and whatnot out of there.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: You know, it is burger. And I took that hide
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: and soon to be destroyed, and I went we went
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: down and I threw that hide and a creek and
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: threw a big rock on it. And we had found
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: an old uh an old plaster. Why did you do that?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Because it was just it was like all that was
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: was just gravel. I was trying to tell what was
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: going on. I mean, it was just gravel, and we
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: like drug it down. It was just like gray. We
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: couldn't find goat because the goat had turned the color
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: of the and it landed down and like the screen
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: slide tapered out and like became more granular, you know,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: and at the bottom of the screen slide was just
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: like a pulverized shale and the goat's hide. I was
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: just so impregnant with that stuff. And we found an
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: old band and plaster mind and took him uh pro
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: pain tank and had a weed burning torch on and
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: we were aiming it at rocks. We're aiming it at rocks.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: We get the rocks for hot and bring him in
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: our tent to warm up. But anyways, um, it wasn't
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: just like there, Yeah, you get it high, but it
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: wouldn't last. But uh So, after a while I dragged
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: that hide out and the funny thing about it, the
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: hide was angelic and not a nick on it. Oh
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: really it Yeah, it looks great just but everything else
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: is just trash. Didn't Chuck end up getting married or
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: getting a girl pregnant and marrying. Everybody didn't really like
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: her very much. That rings a bell. It was shortly after. Yeah,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: it was like some kind of like, uh, I don't know,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: a prognosticative thing that him hanging off a willow tree.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Maybe he should have thought about the way his life
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: was going. I don't know, um, but uh, I really
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: like the like the child a lot. Yeah, because he moved.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: He reached out to you not too long ago, didn't
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: he And then years now, but he moved to portland'
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: um so, how many pounds of a llama carry? Eight?
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: I put eighty on mine. Be way more conservative than that. No,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: the first Elk I packed out with my lamas, with
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Timmy and Hagey, they carried eighty pounds apiece and they
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: were carrying it down. Something was like it was so
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: freaking steep that you're more sliding down it then walking
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: down it. I remember you saying that, Well, that mountain
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: that you killed your first bull with with a bowl,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: I killed my first bull with a bowl. Freaking fifty
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: yards from that same spot, Remember that mountain, Remember that
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: the sound of Timmy and Haggis hooves man freaking. I
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: remember that we made the mistake on the next hill
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: over of putting boned out meat and game bags and
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: thinking we'd roll them down the hill. Yeah, and one
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: of them bursts, and we spent a long time looking
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: at you to meet up and down that hill. And
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: so you got to realize about a lama pack lama
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: is that you told me once that a lama will
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: go pretty much anywhere you can go where you don't
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: have them to use your hands. And I think what
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: you have to realize about their psyche is that it
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: it defies like um human constructs. It's not. They're psyche
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: is just so different than the human beings that it
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: takes a long time to be all to identify with them.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: We're talking about an animals is not snugly, doesn't want
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: to be touched, hates people, and I don't give a
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: ship what anybody says. I feel like if I you
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: know what I'd like to do sometime is have they
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: make heart monitors that you can hook up to cattle
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: for research purposes. I know this because of where I
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: work as a cattle research place. I think that if
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: you hooked up a heart monitor to my one of
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: my llamas and I go off hunting in the morning
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: and you graph it that they're the I could be wrong.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: I could so easily be wrong, But I think that
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: their heart rate goes up a little tiny smidge maybe
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: one two beats per minute, and then in the evening
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: when I come back to camp, it goes back down. Yeah. Oh,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: by that, I think there's more to it. These are
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: animals that when I try to catch them, they try
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: to run away from me and I have to corner
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: them in the pasture. But they probably there's probably a
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: big gray area between being around you and being touched
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: by and being like tied up to a roun. Yeah.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: I think that's like how many dogs want to be
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: out and around, But that doesn't mean you want They
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: want you to grab them and shove in the box
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: right right. They don't. Yeah, Um, they know it's work time.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: But I think that they and and another component is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: the same animal that like wants to run away when
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to catch it. Um doesn't want to be
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: pet man. There's pride and workmanship with those things. I
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: swear to god, you're getting way too complex. Did you
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: get this game face? It's almost imperceptible game face when
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: you put weight on their back and I feel like
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: you're miseraching. Probably know you brought up about lamas a
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: long time ago, and we used to do a little
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: turkey hunting with the llamas more for like, No, it
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: was nice because you could bring some nicer camp stuff,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: but a big motivation for it was you gotta exercise them.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: That's us. I don't believe that anymore. No, like you
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: damn sure you used to believed. But now I just
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: say this. I just say what it really is. I
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: like hanging out with my llamas a little bit. So
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: you don't think that a llama needs to get the
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: exercise these four I have right now, all say do well.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Either they're at peace. Most of time they're at peace,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: but I'd say ten percent of the day they're wrestling,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: and that wrestling is way more energy expending than pack
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: and stuff. I mean, they go and they're trying to
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: bite each other's nuts off and rolling on the ground,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: twisting their necks around each other, putting in one neck.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: One puts its neck underneath another one lifts it off
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: the ground. So they're they're doing a lot more than
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: if you just took him out for a hike. Oh yeah,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: But the thing I was gonna say is on these
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: little jaunts we would do for turkeys with the lamas
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: carrying pretty nice can't you can bring like beer? And
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: you know we'd bring fresh fruit instead of backpack food. Um.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I remember you saying that, uh, that that you felt
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: that they kind of liked just being out walking, and
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: think they do. And the thing that you brought up
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: is that that that you can one way to read
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: a llama and the only that's really you probably have
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: many cues you're looking at, but for me, I'm looking
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: at it's ears. Right when he's got his ears cocked back,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: he might be fixing to spit on you, which is awful.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: They spit like a They spit their stomach contents up
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: at it smells. It's horrible. I only had to happen
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: one time where I really caught one flat ass square
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: in the face because at each other all day long, right,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: they spin each other each other down. But the longer
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: these four I have, now it's like all you do
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: is fight, Like if I stop on the trail, they stop,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: start fighting. Yeah what it was four or five days?
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: If you're hiking there, five you stop and give him
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: two minutes and they're like, oh, I guess I'll start
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: a fight. But that's what that's what I say. Like
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: walking on the trail with them, they get their ears
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: forward and they're like they're not like moving like a
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: lot of times a law was moving because you're behind it, right,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: and he's like what it? So he moves, you know,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: but they kind of like get going down the trail
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: and he really looks like a dude walking down the
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: trail who's real on going. Like picture you're walking down
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: a long trail. It's all shitty and you're just some
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: thick timber. And then you get out like some big
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: metal you know, along the stream right and there's trails
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: and you can find look around just like that's what
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: the llama is seening. Oh yeah, he's like yeah, yeah,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: to see something. Yeah, And he's four. I like, unlike
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: my first string um, who like sometimes sometimes weren't real
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: anxious to go, these four I got now. God, there's
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: I don't even know they're back there. They're just always
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: loose rain, right, there with me. They just want to
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: freaking make tracks. What's a lama? What's a good race?
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Ready lama? Cost? Because you had some shitty lamas and
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: then you got good lamas well. I don't know. Hagy
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: was my probably my favorite. She was fifty bucks from
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: that rescue center. So Haggy proved to be a good lama.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: She was fabulous. She was as good as the high
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: test lamas that you have now, Yeah, my least good lama.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Haggy was everybody as good as the ones I have now,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: but you pay considerably more. Now, Well, it depends on
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: which one we're talking about. I got one of them
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: out there. I paid an eye popping freaking hundred dollars
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: for remember that. And he's, uh, he's probably the worst one.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: He's the cutest one, and so I really I adore him.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: He's super cute and he's got a lot of character.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: But in terms of a pack lama, he's good, but
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: he's not any better than the other ones. One of
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: them I got for free. One of them I got
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: because I lent my llamas to a guy for the summer,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: so that lama packing business and lives up in the
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: tea towns no, no, no, that was a different company. Um,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: that was Haggy. They got it still living at large
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: in the Ta Tons. But uh, that's given her the
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah it is.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: Um who's a pile of bones up in the t
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: tows for one. People just gave to me. These people
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: lived up by Seattle, just gave her kim to me.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: J they called they named him journey Is. I think
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: that's dorky. So I called him j Um for free.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: They said, quote unquote, you needed a job, um, And uh,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: it's funny. I went over to get him. They were
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: he lived up by Seattle. You drove over there to
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: get at I did. I drove to. I drove. They're like, well,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go to court a lane with our llamas. Ah.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: This was summer two thousand sixteen, and um, so I
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, bring j and I'll get him there
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: from you then, because that's way closer twelve hour drive still.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: And what I did is I didn't want to take
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: my horse trailer all the way over there, so I
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: took the back seat out of my pickup truck and
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: drove over there. And the reason they were there is
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: they were carding their a llamas. It's all these retired couples.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: What's carting Alama? Means like they got little lama chariots
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: and drive them around this this fart which I got
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: to do and was a freaking blast. And when I'm
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: a retired person, that's gonna be my stick totally. Yeah.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, shifty girl. Oh this one woman had a
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: little part. You're not allowed to have dogs off leash
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: of this park. It's like a huge park with trails
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: all over for horse riding and there's like lama signs
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: like this is a Lama trail, this is the horse trail,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: which I couldn't believe. She has this little arm cutting
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: off her cart with a clip off of it and
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: it was for her dogs side car eccept the dog
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: had to run, you know. It's like but um, so
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: that's where I got j for free. One of my
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Lamas got for free because the people sucked at carting. No,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: they never tried him, calm um. He just wasn't being
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: used for anything. Well you met that guy that was
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: his owner. Remember I had you give him some seafood
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: for that guy? Yeah? Um soh yeah nice guy, yeah,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: super nice guy. What Arni bucks Uh, no wonder I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: liked Arnie tad j a saka food tad I would
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: have bought for a thousand, but people bought hundred. But
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: people bought him for me because they lost Hagi. Um
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Jay was free and Louis I got for free because
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: I lent my other llama, my llamas to a guy
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: for the summer. Did you name that llama after your
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: father in law? No, he came pre named. I guess
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: is he named after Louis? And have you ever named
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: a llama? It would be a good name. It's it's
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: like he is. If I had to pick a llama
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: that is like my father in law, I would pick him.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Though my father's full blood Filipino and so he's short,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: but he's like very he's in his mid stuff seventies,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: but he's very athletic and tough and this and this
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: is like a short, squat little llama. Loui's not squappy.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: Is lamas short when he says he looks like a
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: hippopotamus dot gon and I mentioned my wife again. Um,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: but he's super tough. He does remind me of Louis. Yeah,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: he's cool. I was Louis. I haven't met Louis the Man,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: but Louis Lama is my favorite. And then I think
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: that Arnie was my second. Now, you used to have
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: a Lama that had gotten hung up in a fence,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Majel and got his jaw jacked out of alignment. You know, awesome,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: awesome Lama. So I there are pictures. If you want
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: to see pictures of mass lama is, all you gotta
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: do is go by the Complete Guy, the Hunting, Butchering,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: and Cooking Wild Game, volume one, and you'll see that
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: that's our guide book. That was kind of a sly
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: little play. Yeah, yeah, Majel. When I got all these boys,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: and I got four boys, it would have it would
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: have been a they because they don't know that they're fixed.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Oh man, they would They're always wrestling and fighting. Now
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: if you put a girl out there, it would be
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: game on. They don't know they're fixed. So it does
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: it takeaway urge? No, No Arnie. For a while I
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: had Arnie and two girls. Oh man, he just freaking
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: ride him constantly. So in the old days, when they
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: would make Unichs, they would take humans and make Eunichs
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: to guard harems. The Unich would feel all those urges. Oh,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that. Maybe something's different with the
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: camel at physiology. I don't know. I'm just saying. Alls
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: I know is Arnie is a freaking stud without balls. Yeah. Um.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: So Now when you're out hunting and you kill, when
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: you're by yourself and you kill a bull, like when
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: you're walking into the mountains, you're not carrying ship, just
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: your boone arrow. Well I got my camp. But why
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: why do not have the lamas carry? They're not carrying anything?
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: Oh me personally? Yeah? Yeah, like you walk, I carry
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: a backpack and with a few like because if you
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: take a bunch of ship out of one pan, you're
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: then you gotta balance amount and all that. So anything
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: I need for the day, I have it on my back.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: And when you kill it out, if you got four,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: you can move one by yourself with how many llamas
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: and not have to carry anything? Well except your camp.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: I've done it with two, like I say to me
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: and Haggy. They packed out my first archery bull. But
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: it felt a little bit um irresponsible, too much weight
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: for but three, no problem. Now I got four and
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: if that feels rocks, So if one of them died,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: would you replace it or would you be like sweet threes? Good?
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, I think I I think it's always I
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: think I would always have four. It's just no harder
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: to have four in that way, if some one of
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: them get sick or um, you know, just a little
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: bit of it, it's it's just not not any more
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: hassle to have a fourth one. I feel like one
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: time we took those llamas and carried out three deer
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: on them in Don Custer Forest. Yeah we're going somewhere.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: I remember you shot a white tailed dough on the
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: way in Yea. Then we killed a buck, shot some
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: other deer, put him on there, got dark, had an
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: argument about how to get out of there, swung through
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: and picked up that dough. I think we had three
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: deer and our backs. Now transporting the llamas. You used
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: to carry your lamas around in a van, a twelve
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: passenger vans. All those retired people when they were when
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: they were doing that lama cardinglat summer, all of them
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: had vans to carry the mama vans, Mama vans, and
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: my van tricked out ones like but I want okay,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: go ahead, but my yeah, we'll get back I might
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: cover this in the course of this, So yeah, I
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: want to cover how pists flows through a ya lama vans. Oh,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: we're not gonna get into that, because what I was
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: gonna tell you is, yeah, my my van was full
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: of piss and ship but um but yeah, they're basically
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: just like what you'd call it a kind of line,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: right because it was a dodge, But yeah, like line.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: I got so much attention on the Expressway and that
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: thing at gas stations, I'd have, dude, if you gas
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: you had to plan on having a marathon bullshit session
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: was at least four or five guys just though, just
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: getting gas and getting gone. Um. Yeah. And they're like
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: on the interstate, you know, you'd see somebody coming up
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: to like pass you, and then you'd lose. You'd lose.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: I'd lose them in my blind spot for like a minute.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: And it's because they're like just freaking at the La Llamas.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: And but these people, these retired couples, they had nice fans,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: carpeted and these lamas because they spent so much time
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: with them, it was like compared to my llamas, these
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: lamas were like it's just ridiculously tame but they and
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: they asked it. They must have gasketed the they take
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: they take their lamas out every two hours at rest
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: stops and let them go. But the area because like
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: you know the picture of van with no pickup truck
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: bed with no liner, it's core. It's like it's not corrugated,
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: but it's like a corrugated like there's troughs well to
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: put it in rifle terminologers, lands and grooves right, and
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: remember you text you tech screwed the piece of angle
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: iron across there, But it didn't. That wasn't. That wasn't
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: to keep urine out of the front of the van. Oh,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: that was just that was because I had an expanded
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: metal grate between me behind the seat to keep them
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: the llamas from like slamming into the freaking uh, I
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: don't know the front of the van if we if
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: I hit the brakes real quick. Yeah, so if you
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: had what I had was laying I had along that
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: piece of angle iron. I had some beach towels, that's right,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: to try to keep you if you're and started riding
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: up that way. He slammed the brakes and the year
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: and to kind of come up and get up and
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: then you take off, you flow back away from you.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: The thing I like about this I feel like your
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: first date and I'm bringing her up this time, your
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: first date with your wife. Did you show up with
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: that van ful a llamas? She met me at a
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: motel and I had the van there and I had
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: the llamas and a corral outside the motel. And her
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: first date, she guys were introduced by friends. And your
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: first date, she got into that vand fill those llamas
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: and you guys went up and killed the bowl. No
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: second date, we killed the bowl the first date. We
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: struck out. That's pretty interesting. But she grew up around
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: livestyle horses, high test horses. She loves the llamas. Um.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: I'm often like, why don't we because I'd like to
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: do it, like go on horses once, just to see
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: what that's all about. Like, and I was like, why
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: do we take some of the horses and go and
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: she she can't even conceive of that. She's like those
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: horses that way because there using day ride and it's
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: She's like, why in the world would we do that
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: when we can take the llamas. She likes llamas, she's
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: just they're too much work and she's right. You know,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: a horse, you gotta take it to water twice a day.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: Llamas don't give a ship man. I've had my llamas
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: out for eight days at a time, and I always
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: lead him to water once a day, you know. Um,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: but I've had him out for eight day trips where
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: they didn't drink a drop. These lamas, they're happy if
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: you park them next to like a standard dead juniper
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: like or like dead tree, like, I'll just eat these twigs.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: That's cool. Do you have you ever had like a
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: train wreck? You know, people talk about like and I've
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: seen it with like pack strings right where. I never
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: did too much of the packing, but the wrangler would
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: be packing up gear clients as the base camp, and
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: we'd be hunting the meadow and you'd see him ride through,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: and then like an hour later, all of a sudden,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: here comes Zippy the mule with you know, the lead
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: rope dangling in the wind, stuff just coming out of paniers,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: you know. And then like an hour later, here come
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: to the wrangler and we'd help him pick up the
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: trail of stuff like our lam was capable of. No. No,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: the most drama I've had is Hagy used to when
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: she would get loose, she thought it was funny to
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: run back to the car. And if you could be
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: way back in there, three miles, and you could hike
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: in there, the whole way freaking off trail. What time
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: I was in a boat. I put him in a boat,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Timmy and Hagy in a boat when we drove five
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: freaking miles and packed in three miles, and she got
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: loose and she ran back to the boat. I remember
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: losing that. Yeah, I think there's no way found that car. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: but no, nothing like that I saw. Yeah, was it?
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: We had these guys, these horse guys coming through, and
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: we still we got we're backpack hunting. And we got
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: up the hill of the trail like you're supposed to
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: do and got clear, and their horses got even with us.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: And this is they were all khunting. The last one
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: was a mule, the one that free freaking freak, and
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: I mean rolling down the hill, ship flying everywhere, wooden pans,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: winging off the tree, splintering wooden old school wooden pan.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: He's just bursting. I remember, do you remember what that
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: guy yelled up the hill? What the fuck you guys
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: got on? Yeah? So something. You would know something your
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: horse wouldn't know what smelled like. I think we actually
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: said that. Yeah, it's funny, man will freak a horse out.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: I've heard that many times. I feel bad. I don't
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: mean to be laughing at the brother's misery, but his
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: response of what we got on as though there was
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: like something like deeper explanation. Yeah. I think he was
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: an outfitter and he was trying to be like to
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: his clients like my they these guys are messing up.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: It's not my lot stock that's messing up. Our brother,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: our older half brother, who was uh elk, and he
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: was an elk guy, but did a lot of other
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: kinds of you know, auxiliary hunts. He was saying that
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: when they would kill a lion, um he would do lying.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: He had a houndsman that he worked with, and when
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: they would kill a lion, those horses would not want
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: to pack that lion. Obviously you don't. They don't want
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: to lie on guid lion hunters. They he remember him
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: telling me that they would cut a track and now
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: I know, now I got to know guys to do this.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: Him saying, oh, yeah, we won't call the clients, will
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: we cut a track. I remember him calling telling me
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: that he had a client in Dallas called that guys
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: as to cut a track. The guy flew up, but
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: he was saying they would just go he'd go up
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: to the lion or whatever and just get his hands
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: drenched in blood and then go up and rub that
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: on the horse's face because then he can't tell where
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: the smells coming. Then once he calms down, you can
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: put the thing on his back because he just can't
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: tell like what he's trying to get away from anymore.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had a lama and they didn't want
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: to pack me? Lamas don't care about that at all.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: They'd pack a lot, but that's bad. Yeah, you could
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: put Satan himself on a llama's back. He would not care. Man,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: they don't care about that, all right. Man, we've only
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: got a third the way. Um, we've talked a lot
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: about lamas. No, I know, but not all that. And
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: you know I don't usually like to mix a business
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: and pleasure. But I'm I'm here with my older two
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: youngsters and I need to go and get them. Oh,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: I thought you were saying we hadn't talked about lamas. No, No, no, No,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about I would continue to talk
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: way more about Llamas. But my my, my, my, my
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: boy and my girl are are with one of my
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: closest friends. Yeah, and they're here to fish catfish with
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: their uncle Matt, and I gotta go fetch them. Um,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: you guys are definitely gonna be fishing catfish by the
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: looks of the time that river is. It's good though,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: it's good yeah, for catfish and for I think we're
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: gonna catch the sturgeons. I'm optimistic matter urgin. Yeah, high water,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: good sturgeon fishing. Shovel knows not palets. Yeah, concluding thoughts,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: that was it? That was your concluding thought? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Yannie was um you know, Yannie's a Rocky Mountain squirrel foundation.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: He was scouting, um, scouting squirrel spots today. Yeah, man, yeah,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm how far is that? That's probably thirty no,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: an hour from here or not. Even if it was foresight,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: there was no I'm farther. Don't be telling No, it
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't that place. Why we name in town, that's stupid. Yeah,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: we're gonna to bleat that out. Uh Yeah, but anyways, Yeah,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: I found squirrel sign and turkey sign. Mm hmm, good Matt.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: Concluding thoughts, We don't know, we didn't get we didn't
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: cover everything. No, this was fun. I thought that we would.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: I was afraid that we wouldn't have anything to talk about. No, no, no,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: that don't happen. Something about putting on a headset and
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: having to be official like other people might listen to
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: it makes it makes you a little chattier. Yeah, it does,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: and then that has the quality of pardon me, I'll
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: be here to say that it does not make you
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: guys any chattier. Oh really were like this normally? You know, mhm,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: pretty chatty, gentleman. You got any concluding thoughts? That was it? Well?
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: That was including Yeah. My concluding thought is, um, I
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: think it's pretty polite of you to ask if we
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: had concluding thoughts. Oh yeah. There's a lot of times
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: something you want to say that you just can't quite
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: wedge it in there, you know, and you do it.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: But um, my concluding thought. I had an interjection I
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: want to drop in earlier, but it didn't quite get
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: a chance to say when we were talking, been about
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: how you guys thought you guys were going so far
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: when you're going up to that guy's cabin. Nor So
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: last weekend, we're telling our kids we're going camping to
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: Lewistown or Lewiston. I don't know how you pronounced. Why
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: are you drop? Why are you dropping? Like every single
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what's the deal with Lewistown, New Hampshire. Right,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: you can go camp lewis Ton, Idaho. Okay, but you
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, like camp a million places in
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: this state. They all have names. Um, so we're just
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: going camping. Everybody go camping in Lewiston, Okay, But we're
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: telling our kids were going camping in Lewison. And my
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: youngest is, uh, is that North America? Yo? Yes, it
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: is Montana, North America. I don't think I have Yeah,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: I mean I got, I got, Like it doesn't count.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: I have two weeks including thoughts because um, I feel
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: like we didn't we didn't get everything. But but I
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: would like to say that it's been really fun. Two.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: It's been fun to watch all the all this Alama
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: stuff take place over the Yeah and being started out.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: It started out with like they started out his instruments,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: and then it became a like a just part of
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: the family to Yeah, and you've just learned so much. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like now yeah, but I feel like now, um,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I feel like now you've gotten to a
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: point where you're almost like, uh, probably finding out things
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: abottom the people don't know or that Americans don't know. Right,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've got some insights on there that
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I couldn't have got from my lama mentors, you know.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: And that's the interesting thing, like in in the field
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: of like, like when discussing just the idea of expertise,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: it's interesting one when to see someone crossed the threshold
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: where you you spend a long time accumulating what's known, right,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: and then you start to delve into and then you
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: cross this thing and you and you start being able
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: to say, like what you found Yeah, eventually because the
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: interaction between the way your brain works and I guess
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: in this case, the animal you're dealing with, you know,
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: which is unique to you. You know, it's not something
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: that can be taught anymore at that point. Um, And
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: talking to Kevin Murphy, I know, it's like I know
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: that he has found out things, like he knows things
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: about squirrels and squirrel dogs that are not known by individual,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: and I become friendly with a guy named Tommy Eidsen
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: in Seattle. We started out as email and text buddies,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: but we met recently and like, he likes to fish croppies,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: even though he's from the Pacific Northwest born and race,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: likes to fish croppies, and um, talking to him about croppies,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: You're like, he's crossed that threat. He knows stuff about croppies.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: The other guys. Yeah, Like he's found out stuff. And
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: then you could be the kind of jackass who thinks
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: he knows stuff about the other people don't know, but
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: he don't, which is insufferable. Yeah. I don't think there's
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: any motivation for me like that. With me and my llamas,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I'm never
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: even around other a llama people. You just want my
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: llamas to be happy and well cared for that. So,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: but you use the term the llama community. Yeah, but
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: you talked about being ostracized, not that you were, but
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: that it would be used to talk. I've had a
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: few that I had to get rid of because they
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: didn't work out. About all his pack llamas, and you
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: had a lot of anxiety that they'd be hard to
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: get rid of that turnout to not be true, you'd
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: be ostracized by that. I was like, man, I and
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: I have to butcher this thing and put in my freezer,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: which would be heresy in the Lama community to eat one.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: Did I tell you that I ate Lama? Yes, you did.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: Stringy as it was just like in a. It was
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: in a. It was in an Andean It was outside
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: as salt to Argentina, and it was in like an
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: Andean version of I'm space and name what's that dish? Uh?
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: You know people associated with like Mexican food. It comes
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: wrapped in the corn husk. It was in like, yeah,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: very good. It was in a sort of Andean Tamali
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: with kind of an Andian spin, I guess. And there
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: was Lama meeting there, And I mean it could have
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: been a person's meeting there. You wouldn't have known it
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: just being stringy and light's not offensive. A regional chain
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: in town. There's a restaurant's part of regional chain chain
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: in town of Miles City here called the Ribbon Chop House.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: And I remember, and once in a while they'll have
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: something out of that ordinary. I had alligator there a
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: few years ago, but I know it. For a while.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: They had lama on the menu a couple of weeks. Yeah,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: I ate some horse once. I'd like to try that.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: Everybody says that's delicious, all right, Yeah, any last little
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: did you pick up any last little concluders? Matt, you good,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: I'm good. Thanks for joining us. Man. This has been
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: a great uh discussion, and I would like to um resume. Yeah,
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: we should definitely continue in the in the in the
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: near future.