Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Getting Jobs, Leaving Jobs and Finding Your Career Path Ep. 68

Transcript

Getting Jobs, Leaving Jobs and Finding Your Career Path Ep. 68 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs, This is Chef's PSA podcast.
0:01
I'm your host, Andre and Tara. On today's episode, we're going
0:04
to talk about getting the job and finding your career path.
0:08
Stay tuned. So before we get started, I'm
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going to give you a brief update for those of you that were
0:24
listening last week. I was talking about kitchen rust
0:26
and how I've been working at Tilly's at Camp Lucy as the chef
0:31
in residence, working in the kitchen with the team, cooking
0:34
food, writing menus. It's been a lot of fun and I'm
0:36
still there through mid November.
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So if you happen to be in the area and you want to go eat, go
0:40
check it out. It's upscale dying.
0:42
It's not tasting menu only. It's a la carte restaurant, but
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it's fun. It allows me to cook.
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It allows me to see if I can still walk the talk, which I can
0:52
Found that out really quick. It took me about 3 days and then
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I was back in it like I had never left.
1:00
Well, it's like if I had never left 2/2 until two years ago,
1:03
right? I'm joking, but here's something
1:06
new. I'm on Facebook now, so I really
1:08
don't like Facebook. If I'm being honest with you, I
1:10
like Instagram. I don't.
1:12
I don't know what's up with threads.
1:13
I don't think anyone's on there. It's like a it's a ghost town.
1:16
You post something and a week later someone likes it.
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Just one person though. Thank you.
1:21
Threads. I think threads.
1:23
Right now it's $0.02 to tell, but right now it's not shaping
1:26
up to the first week worth of hype when everyone's saying that
1:29
X was dead. I don't think X is dead at all.
1:32
Hopefully threads makes it come back anyway.
1:34
But what are we talking about? We're talking about Facebook.
1:35
I'm on Facebook now, so Coppola chefs, PSA on Facebook.
1:39
Don't message me on Facebook because I post and ghost.
1:41
I don't. I don't hang out on Facebook
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because I don't really like it. If I'm being honest with you,
1:44
it's not, it's not the most interesting platform.
1:47
You know, if I was going to be honest, I would say X is
1:50
probably the most interesting platform.
1:53
It's like a dumpster fire. You don't know what you're going
1:55
to see on there, but Instagram is pretty, pretty tan.
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You're going to see some pretty food pictures.
2:00
Tik Tok's more the same, but X is like Wild West.
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You don't know what you're going to bump into there.
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But the chef community is not there.
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And I'm on, I'm on X slash Twitter, whatever you want to
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call it. So go find me there.
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Because even though it is exciting, the culinary community
2:17
is pretty quiet. It's almost nonexistent.
2:19
It's like chefs don't have anything to say.
2:20
What's going on if you're not posting a pretty food picture, I
2:23
know you all have opinions. I talked to you all.
2:26
So if you want to move the industry forward that happens
2:29
with conversation, go to chefspsa.com and get all the
2:32
books Culinary Leadership, Fundamentals Kitchen, Art of
2:35
War, Bad Soup, Good Chef Line Cook Survival Manual, and How
2:40
Not To Be The Biggest Idiot in the Kitchen.
2:42
I also have some free ebooks, 100 basic recipes, Culinary
2:47
Dictionary for those people that need a brush up on their terms.
2:51
Critical Path to Opening Up a Restaurant, which was a
2:53
companion guide to a two-part series that I did on this
2:57
series, Chef's PSA Podcast and the Food Cost Mastery Guide
3:03
which is also a companion to a three-part series I did on Food
3:06
Cost. You should go listen to those.
3:07
You should also download those free ebooks.
3:09
No one else has given you this shit.
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Just me. You're welcome.
3:12
Where's my thanks Anyway? We digress.
3:15
Let's get into it. I did an episode a while back
3:17
about is the industry, the culinary industry a sinking
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ship? I got a lot of commentary in my
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DM, people emailing me, messaging me saying that this is
3:27
a really important subject and I should expand upon it.
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But they also wanted me to expand upon the career path.
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So I figured today I would talk about the career path and also
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maybe if I could get in some people's ear and influence your
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decision. Talk about how to leave jobs as
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well. We need to increase
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professionalism if we want the industry to get better.
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I don't have a magic wand. I can't wave it and give
3:50
everyone a raise. That's not how this works and
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just a chef podcaster these days.
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But I can give you advice on things that I think would help
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the industry take an altruistic approach, not a selfish
4:02
approach. So I get messages on the Q&A.
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So I do the Cigar Sunday Q&A on Instagram.
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For those of you that don't know, if you don't follow me on
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Instagram, every Sunday about 6:00 PM Central Time, I do a Q&A
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where I smoke a cigar and I answer your questions.
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It's my opportunity to engage with the community.
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One of the repeat questions I get is when will I know when I'm
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ready. Another one that I get is, is it
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better for me to work in this type of restaurant or this type
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of restaurant? Usually it's like fine dining
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versus casual. And half the time I have no idea
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what they mean by fine dining. A lot of people say they work in
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fine dining and I don't know if they do.
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I think it's just upscale dining or it's not casual or sometimes
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it's like upscale, maybe casual, but when I think of fine dining,
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I think of like tasting menu or white tablecloth, sommelier in
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the restaurant, coursed out menus.
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That's what I think about when I think of fine dining.
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I think about it more in this form of service and ambience
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that I do in food, because you could have amazing food in a
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casual setting. But that's not fine dining.
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Maybe it is fine dining. Anyway, we digress.
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Where were we? And people also ask me how they
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should plan out their career. These are all good questions.
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I answer them a lot tonight. I feel like this is the number
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one question on a lot of people's minds is where am I
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going with this? And I think that's where we
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begin. That's the most important
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question. What do you want to be when you
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grow up? In a lot of my mentor meetings,
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that's a question that I ask a lot of people is what do you
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want to be when you grow up? And some of the people that I
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mentor are not young kids. Sometimes they're my age or
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older and I'm still mentoring them.
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It doesn't matter how old you are.
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It's about thinking about that question.
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What do you want to be when you grow up?
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What is the ideal state in your career look like when you think
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about what your maximum potential you could achieve is?
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What is it that is the first step before you take any other
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jobs? And then I'm not saying you
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can't change your mind because you might work in other
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restaurants or you might see something or the industry trends
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change or sometimes you're forced into a situation, then
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you change your mind. But if you haven't changed your
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mind, I think early on it's important to determine what kind
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of chef you want to be. If you're still in culinary
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school, think about that. Do you want to be a three
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Michelin star chef? Do you want to have the best
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barbecue restaurant? Do you want to be the chef of a
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cruise ship? Do you want to be a private
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chef? Because they're all different.
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And once you determine what kind of chef you want to be, working
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in different styles of kitchens doesn't necessarily get you
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closer. Yes, it's all cooking, you're
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working with a knife, pots and pans.
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But culturally and systematically, a lot of these
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restaurants are different. Even cuisine wise, you're not
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going to learn about BBQ working on a cruise ship, most likely.
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I don't. At least I don't think so.
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It's really important to be sniper specific and write down
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what your career goal is. What do you want to be when you
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grow up? Once that's determined, all your
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efforts should be made on working in those types of
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restaurants. Because if you want to be a
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three Michelin star chef, the only way you're going to learn
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how to become a three Michelin star chef is working in three
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Michelin star restaurants. If you want to be the best
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barbecue chef in the world, the only way that you're going to
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achieve that is by working in great BBQ restaurants.
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If you want to learn how to become a private chef and run a
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private chef company, you need to get experience working for
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private chefs or in catering companies.
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All of that is relevant to experience.
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And if you want to be the chef entrepreneur, then you need to
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work under entrepreneurs to learn the business side of it.
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A lot of chefs make this mistake.
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They want to be chef entrepreneurs but only focus on
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the cooking aspect. And yes, the cooking is
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important, but if you're trying to have a restaurant empire, you
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need to have the marketing business acumen, the financial
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skills that go with it. Because time spent working on
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the cruise ship is not preparing you to be the food truck owner,
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work in that specific industry, work in that specific category
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of restaurant. The next thing that you want to
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do is take action. A lot of people think about the
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type of chef that they want to become, and then they're too
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afraid to act upon it. They talk about it, they
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complain about it. They say opportunity has it not.
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They don't know anyone. They have no connections.
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You have to act on it. The person who acts has every
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advantage over the person who doesn't.
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I saw this quote the other day and it was really good, so I'm
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going to steal it. It was If you act now, in six
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months, you could have six months worth of progress.
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And if you don't, in six months, you'll have six months worth of
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excuses. Think about that.
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The compounding effect of action is a superpower that a lot of
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people don't realize. If you wanted to learn a
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language, and you know I'm someone who practices a language
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every single day is I'm able to speak fluently in other
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languages because I practice them daily, only for about 15
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minutes a day. But I still practice them, as
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opposed to the person who wants to learn it but is waiting for
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the right time to take a class that they never take.
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And they have a bunch of excuses to why they don't take it.
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The same thing applies in your culinary career.
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If you want to work in a specific type of kitchen, start
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messaging those chefs sending your applications.
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Be willing to go work for them. Don't think you're not good
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enough, because that's a trap in your own mind, because trust me,
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you are good enough. There's there's bad cooks even
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in the greatest kitchens. Trust me, I have friends that
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work in some of the best kitchens in the world who tell
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me that their cooks aren't good. Just because they work in a
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great restaurant or they work under a great chef doesn't
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necessarily mean that they're also great.
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So don't think just because the specific chef for the specific
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type of cuisine might be out of your comfort zone or they're at
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a very high level that you're not ready.
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Trust me, there's someone in that kitchen that's also not
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ready, but they were unafraid to act.
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Take this example, 2 cooks in your kitchen, The best cook and
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the worst cook. The best cook in your kitchen is
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afraid to leave, and the worst cook in your kitchen leaves to
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go work in the best restaurant in the world.
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Let's just say Noma for example. Now, one year goes by, the
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person's been working at Noma, even though they weren't the
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best cook in your kitchen, they've been working in the best
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restaurant. They come back, who's the better
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cook now? Who's the better chef?
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Now, objectively, one would say the person who took the risk and
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went to the best restaurant in the world and works there for a
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year even though they weren't the best, versus the person who
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was the best cook in the kitchen.
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That's why I always say it's better to be the worst cook in
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the best kitchen than the best cook and the worst.
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Don't be afraid to take action of your career.
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You're in the driver's seat. You have to write the script.
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No one's going to come and save you.
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No one's going to come and do it for you.
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The next question that people always ask me is when will I be
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ready? When will I be ready to take on
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the leadership role? When will I be ready to move up?
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Well, when you're planning your career, you should also plan out
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your career progress. I really would advise people to
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stay within a year or two years in position before they move on.
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In the old days, it was 18 months to two years before you
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could be promoted and usually that was because it would take
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you about a year to get good at your job.
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And then you're the person that was investing their time and you
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would want their return on investment their Roy, which
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would usually take about six months to another year.
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So I'm going to train you for a year and then I'm going to get
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six months of you performing at a high level.
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So 18 months was typically the standard or two years I get it.
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In today's world, that's probably not realistic.
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But still, I think at least a year in position or two years in
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position is good. I know sometimes I look at
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resumes, and when someone's worked at places less than a
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year, I wonder how much they really learned there.
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And sometimes I'm reluctant to hire them, not all the time.
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Sometimes there's very good reasons why they leave these
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restaurants. Covid's a good one.
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But other times people just leave these restaurants because
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they think they've learned everything they need to learn.
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And trust me, you haven't. You could continue to learn
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every single day from good services and bad services,
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sometimes bad chefs and bad services.
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You could learn more from. You learn what not to do.
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You learn how to overcome. When you work in really good
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kitchens and everything's just humming, sometimes you actually
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don't learn as much as you think you do because you're never
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short staffed, You're never out of ingredients.
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Everything's always running smoothly.
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You're not really challenged with adversity, but when you
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work in tough kitchens, you're challenged daily.
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So maybe you're not learning about the most Swannier or
12:26
finesse food, but you're learning how to overcome
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difficult situations that deal with adversity on the daily,
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which like I said, sometimes that's more important,
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especially when you get into leadership roles.
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Towards the end of my career, people won't always tell me
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you're so calm. You know, the wheels could be
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falling off the bus and I wouldn't be freaking out.
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And they would ask me, how do you stay so calm in in the
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chaos? And I would just say, I've kind
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of been in these situations before.
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I've experienced every single bad situation in a kitchen that
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people could throw at me. The call offs, the pipe burst,
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the walkin goes down, the order didn't show up, the menu roll
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out. Whatever the case may be, I've
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experienced them all. So I don't really freak out.
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I'm used to it. I've been in tough kitchens.
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So I've learned a lot in those tough kitchens.
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So back to my point, I wouldn't advise you to jump ship
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immediately when things get hard.
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There might be some learning lessons in there for you.
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Now, if you've been working in a place and you're looking to get
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promoted and you're ready to move into leadership, but
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they're not moving you up, you might be missing something that
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you're unaware of. Or look, let me be honest,
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sometimes they just don't like you.
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And if you're working in a place where they don't like you, it's
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going to be very hard to move up.
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Likability goes a long way, right?
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Wrong. For indifferent it is.
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It is a fact. Put yourself in this position.
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You don't like someone? Think of that person that you
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don't like. Are you going to promote them to
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be your right hand so you could spend more time with them?
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I mean, there's someone listening right now like I
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would. I'm very honest and ethical.
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I'm always fair. OK, well, you would, but most
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people wouldn't. And that's the reality of the
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world. So sometimes when you're not
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moving up, I think it's important to ask the chef why.
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And when they tell you why, write it down and take action on
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the things that they tell you. Now.
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Yes. Does it suck when you don't get
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promoted where you're at? Yes, of course it does.
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But that doesn't mean you have to stay.
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If you feel you are ready and you've been passed over several
14:18
times, then go on and see if you are.
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Prove it to yourself. Prove everyone wrong.
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Maybe you're right. Maybe you are ready.
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I don't know. Maybe the chef right.
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Maybe you're not. And you'll find out.
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But there's only one way to do it.
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Don't expect to be good in leadership roles immediately
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when you're thrown in. Some people are natural leaders,
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but for the most part, there should be a lot of things that
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you don't know. That's why you have chefs above
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you. You know, if you're a sous chef,
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you hopefully have a head chef above you that you can go to for
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guidance. So when you get into a tough
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situation, you ask them if you if your head chef is one of
14:49
those people that don't like to provide guidance.
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Hopefully you have a mentor. Every chef should have a mentor,
14:55
and I probably should have mentioned that earlier in the
14:57
episode. Find a mentor early in your
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career that could guide you. Once you determine what kind of
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chef you want to be when you grow up, they could help point
15:04
you in the right path and make sure you're not wasting time
15:07
getting experience and things that are completely irrelevant
15:10
to what you want to do. The next point I want to bring
15:12
up is when you leave. A lot of people leave jobs for
15:15
money because they're going to get a dollar here.
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They're going to get a fancy title, and I can tell you that
15:19
just because they're going to give you a little bit more money
15:21
sometimes, it's not always worth leaving.
15:24
Because I'm going to give you an example.
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Let's say where you're at, you're being mentored and you
15:28
have a very good chef and maybe you're not making $0.50 more,
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like they're going to pay you at the other place.
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But at the other place, the chef's not going to mentor you.
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It's not a great environment. Why would you leave if you're
15:40
working for a great chef that's taking the time to mentor and
15:45
develop you? Not a lot of people have access
15:47
to that. And is $0.50 worth the tradeoff?
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I don't know. I don't know your financial
15:51
situation? Maybe it is worth it, but I
15:53
could tell you long term, it's usually not worth it.
15:55
You want to have someone investing in you, anyone that's
15:59
willing to invest in you, and take their time and give it to
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you, listen and be thankful for it because not everyone has
16:05
access to a chef that's willing to do that.
16:07
So personally, would I leave a job for a few bucks more if I
16:12
had a great boss? No, I would not.
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Because I know when you develop these relationships and if your
16:17
boss is one of those movers and shakers, that's going to move up
16:20
as well and they're mentoring you when they move up, a lot of
16:23
times they move you up, but they move you with them to the next
16:26
restaurant. So their career growth is tied
16:29
to your career growth where the place where you may be going,
16:33
that's not the case. So you got to be smart about
16:35
these decisions sometimes. I've seen chefs latch onto other
16:39
chefs for an entire career and they keep moving up with them
16:41
because the other chef keeps moving up and they like them.
16:43
They'll take care of you. Why would you give that up?
16:45
We should also talk about professionalism when it comes to
16:48
leaving jobs. I think the standard is 2 weeks
16:50
notice, right? If you're being professional,
16:53
you should give two weeks notice, minimum.
16:56
A lot of people give longer a month, two months, three months.
17:00
I think the higher up in the position that you are, the
17:02
longer notice, that's expected. I know when I left my job to
17:05
retire, I think I gave him almost six months to a year
17:08
notice that I was leaving. They knew we had talked about it
17:11
at length. They knew it was coming and I
17:13
helped them through the transition.
17:16
If you have a good relationship with people, you want to help
17:18
them through the transition. You don't want to burn a bridge.
17:21
Now I know because I've posted on Chef's PS:.
17:24
A the right thing to do is give two weeks notice and people get
17:26
really upset. Well, if they fire you, are they
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going to give you 2 weeks notice?
17:30
Well, no, of course not. But you sometimes can also fire
17:33
your employer, right? If you work in an environment
17:35
that's toxic, abusive, unethical, you're going to just
17:39
walk out the job, right? You're not going to show up the
17:41
next day. If it is an environment that is
17:45
just terrible, you're going to fire them on the spot.
17:48
Well, the same thing happens if you're that toxic, abusive
17:50
employee. Guess what?
17:51
Sometimes you get fired on the spot too.
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It's just the way it works. But if you're working for good
17:56
people and you want to remain professional and you don't want
17:59
to burn a bridge, you should give at least two weeks notice,
18:02
minimum. Now, it doesn't mean that
18:03
they're going to honor it, and I know a lot of chefs are like,
18:06
once you give notice, that's your last day.
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I'm not like that. I don't condone that.
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But I know a lot of chefs think that way.
18:12
Not my opinion, but hey, to each their own.
18:16
I would still offer the two weeks because I want to remain a
18:18
professional. And when you're leaving a job,
18:21
remember they remember how you left.
18:23
They don't remember anything that came before.
18:25
They remember how you closed work your first day like your
18:28
last day as they say, unless your first day sucked, don't do
18:32
that. Here's an interesting thought
18:33
experiment that I heard. Two different people, both 60
18:36
years old. One of them was bad for 55 years
18:40
of their life, terrible person. And of the last five years of
18:43
their life, they turned good and did a lot of charity work,
18:46
philanthropy, helped people and then they died.
18:50
The other person was good for 55 years of their life and then
18:54
turned really bitter and started stealing and robbing and hurting
18:57
people. The last five years of their
18:59
life, which one was the better person?
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Think about that for a second. Was it the person who was good
19:05
for 55 years and bad the the last five?
19:09
Or was it the person who was bad for 55 years and good the last
19:12
five? The interesting thing is when
19:14
you ask most people, they will say the person who was good the
19:17
last five years of their life was the good person.
19:20
It's a very interesting thought experiment.
19:22
I don't know what you thought, but most people answer the way I
19:25
said. So think about that.
19:27
If you're leaving a job, what they're going to remember is how
19:30
you closed out. That's the final impression they
19:32
get of your performance. So you want to make sure you
19:34
leave on a good note. And trust me, these bridges
19:37
always have to get crossed again.
19:39
You're going to come across, someone's going to call you up
19:41
and say, hey, did you work with so and so.
19:43
You don't want to burn bridges. Don't be that person.
19:45
When you're early in your career, you think no one knows
19:48
each other. They do.
19:49
Trust me. Everyone talks.
19:50
We all call each other. We all send group text.
19:52
You know this person. Resumes get floated behind the
19:55
scenes. It's like the black market of
19:59
chef resumes. People are saying things about
20:01
you, so you want to make sure that they are saying positive
20:03
things about you, give a proper notice and if you don't want to,
20:06
hey, be prepared for the consequences, good or bad,
20:09
right? Last thing I'll say.
20:10
When you're leaving a job, the grass is not always greater.
20:13
Sometimes you're leaving a job because you don't like this
20:16
person and you don't like that person.
20:17
There's that one lazy cook and the server who rings in
20:19
everything at once and pockets the tickets and the Hostess
20:22
seats the entire restaurant. So you think, well, I'm going to
20:25
go work over here because they don't have those problems.
20:27
Those problems are everywhere. The faces change, but the
20:31
problems remain the same. The grass is not green or
20:34
anywhere else. And sometimes when you're in a
20:37
really good kitchen and if you've been there for a long
20:39
time, you lose sight of how good that kitchen is.
20:42
I know I like to believe that I run a tight ship, and I've had
20:46
chefs that leave and then come back because they didn't
20:49
appreciate it while they were there.
20:51
But then they leave and come back and say, you know what?
20:53
I really miss this kitchen. I didn't realize how good we
20:55
have it. And I was the Tye of person.
20:57
Like, if I really liked you, I would always be supportive.
21:00
Like go, go somewhere else, and if you want to come back, come
21:04
back if I liked them. And the reason I would do that
21:07
is because a lot of times, like, I knew they didn't know what
21:09
they were getting themselves into.
21:10
I knew how good the kitchen was, and I knew where they were
21:12
going, and I knew that they might miss it.
21:14
So I wanted to keep those doors open.
21:16
I wanted to prevent them from burning a bridge.
21:18
The grass is not greener. The same problems exist
21:21
everywhere. Like I said, when you're in a
21:22
good kitchen, you might not even be aware of it until you leave.
21:26
There's an expression that a fish doesn't realize it's in
21:29
water until you take it out and then it can't breathe.
21:31
Just like we don't depreciate the atmosphere until we're
21:33
underwater and can't breathe, the things we take for granted.
21:36
Now we started out the show with saying find out what type of
21:39
chef you want to be when you grow up.
21:41
Eventually you're going to achieve that and you're going to
21:44
be that chef that you dreamed about.
21:46
What do you do when you get there?
21:47
When you get there, enjoy the moment, appreciate it.
21:51
Don't be looking for the next thing right away, and make sure
21:53
you give back. Start mentoring your staff.
21:56
Start teaching them all the things that you wish you knew on
21:59
your journey. If you're not developing the
22:01
next generation, then what? What are we doing if we're not
22:03
helping them right? Especially if you're in a
22:05
successful spot, make sure you're giving back anyway.
22:08
That's it for today. If you want to support the show,
22:10
you know what to do. Make sure you leave five stars.
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If you're on Spotify, nothing less than five stars.
22:16
Leave it on other bad pot. This is a good podcast.
22:18
Leave it on. Bad podcast.
22:19
It was a great podcast, actually.
22:21
If you haven't left five stars, what's wrong with you?
22:23
What are you waiting for? Stop.
22:24
Leave the five stars. If you're watching on YouTube,
22:27
hit the subscribe button. Like the video.
22:30
Comment whatever. Whatever you're supposed to say
22:32
on YouTube. I'm still new to this.
22:34
Go to chefspsa.com. You get the merge.
22:36
You can get the books. It's hoodie weather.
22:38
I have some hoodies at the Chef's PSA store.
22:41
Thank you all very much. See you next week.
22:43
Hit the porno music.