Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Dr. Rheeda Walker On 'Unapologetic Guide To Black Mental Health' Anniversary, Faith, Therapy + More

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INTERVIEW: Dr. Rheeda Walker On 'Unapologetic Guide To Black Mental Health' Anniversary, Faith, Therapy + More · The Breakfast Club

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Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
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Speaker 2: Everybody is DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the God. We
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Speaker 2: are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in
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Speaker 2: the building. Yes, indeed have doctor Rito Walker. Welcome back.
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Speaker 3: Good Mon's great to be here with you all.
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Speaker 1: Great to have you.
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Speaker 4: Doctor Rida Walker is the author one of my favorite
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Speaker 4: books ever, The Unapologetic God, The Black Mental Health.
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Speaker 1: I recommend it to everybody.
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Speaker 4: And you are celebrating the fifth anniversary of the release
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Speaker 4: of The Unapologetic God, The Black Mental Health. Jesus Christ,
0:28
Speaker 4: time don't be playing boy, Yeah.
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Speaker 3: I mean five years.
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Speaker 5: God is good and I never would have expected that
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Speaker 5: the book would have had the impact that has had,
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Speaker 5: you know, meeting you, you know, being able to talk
0:40
Speaker 5: to you. All the folks who have you know, come
0:42
Speaker 5: to me and said the book has changed their life.
0:45
Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 5: Did they buy the book for their family members and
0:48
Speaker 5: for friends, they have book club meetings.
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Speaker 3: It's just, you know, it's been a blessing.
0:52
Speaker 1: I remember when I read it. Debbie Brown, our good sister,
0:55
Speaker 1: Debbie Brown.
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Speaker 4: She gave me the manuscript and I read it on vacation,
0:58
Speaker 4: and I remember reading it and saying to my so,
1:00
Speaker 4: where has this book been all of our lives?
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Speaker 5: Well, it's been, you know, it's been a process. So
1:07
Speaker 5: I earned my PhD more than twenty years ago, and
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Speaker 5: you know, working on trying to understand specifically for black people,
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Speaker 5: you know, our experiences, and trying to integrate that into
1:18
Speaker 5: the larger landscape of mental health that you all know
1:21
Speaker 5: has exploded, you know, trying to merge what I know
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Speaker 5: as a black woman and I'm a first generation college student.
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Speaker 5: My parents didn't go to college, and merging my reality
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Speaker 5: with what I was learning and the research that I
1:32
Speaker 5: was engaged in and trying to train PhD clinical psychology students.
1:36
Speaker 5: You know, that's it took time. So it took a
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Speaker 5: little time for me to get here, but I'm here.
1:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 6: I noticed that it's not just about mental health, it's
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Speaker 6: specifically for black mental health, right, Like, why is it?
1:49
Speaker 1: So?
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Speaker 6: Why is it important to be unapologetic about who this
1:52
Speaker 6: book is for.
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Speaker 5: I'm so glad that you asked that, because, as you
1:56
Speaker 5: all know, oftentimes, you know, black people get lumped in
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Speaker 5: with minorities. One of the labels that we use in
2:03
Speaker 5: academia is bipock. So black and we include folks with
2:08
Speaker 5: indigenous people of color, but we know that Black people
2:11
Speaker 5: have a very specific and unique way of just living life,
2:15
Speaker 5: of doing things. We've learned mental health from the generations
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Speaker 5: before us, and in ways that weren't always helpful. You know,
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Speaker 5: we learned not to talk about our feelings and emotions,
2:24
Speaker 5: like we learned that like what we learned impacted who
2:27
Speaker 5: we are, while at the same time dealing with racism,
2:30
Speaker 5: dealing with microaggressions, you know, folks saying, you know, pull
2:33
Speaker 5: yourself up by the bootstraps, and we don't even have boots.
2:36
Speaker 5: You know, that is a reality for us, and we
2:37
Speaker 5: need to be able to talk about that. And that's
2:39
Speaker 5: part of what makes the book unapologetic is that I said, yeah,
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Speaker 5: we're not talking about everybody, We're just talking about black people. Yeah,
2:45
Speaker 5: and that's not that it hasn't helped other folks. And
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Speaker 5: I've had people from many communities, you know, gay, straight, black, Asian,
2:50
Speaker 5: We've all people from many different communities have said that
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Speaker 5: the book has helped them, which is fine, you know, great,
2:56
Speaker 5: get what you need from the book.
2:57
Speaker 3: But I wrote it for us.
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Speaker 4: How do you handle black people who still think therapy
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Speaker 4: is just white.
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Speaker 5: People shit, Well, I say, you know, God bless you,
3:08
Speaker 5: and then I talk to them about things that in
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Speaker 5: their language. And I think that's part of what made
3:12
Speaker 5: the book resonate, is talking to folks in ways that
3:16
Speaker 5: makes sense to us.
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Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons.
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Speaker 5: They had to be for us, because we talk a
3:20
Speaker 5: certain way, and I use that in the book. And so,
3:23
Speaker 5: you know, I ask folks about their worry. I ask
3:26
Speaker 5: folks about problem sleeping, Like in the black community, we
3:28
Speaker 5: have a lot of problems with sleep, and we don't
3:30
Speaker 5: even we normalize it. And so I talk about the
3:32
Speaker 5: day to day kinds of things that people experience but
3:35
Speaker 5: have normalize and then they say hmm, and then we
3:37
Speaker 5: can start to have a conversation from there. I gotta
3:39
Speaker 5: you got to meet folks where they are like. And
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Speaker 5: that's one of I introduced the idea of psychological fortitude
3:45
Speaker 5: in the book, because we say mental health. As you
3:47
Speaker 5: all know, folks start thinking, oh, someone's crazy. They hearing
3:51
Speaker 5: and seeing things that aren't there. Okay, let's just move
3:54
Speaker 5: by that. Let's let's let's keep it moving. Let's figure
3:56
Speaker 5: out how I can help people with a different kind
3:57
Speaker 5: of language.
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Speaker 2: It's been five years. What's surprise you the most about
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Speaker 2: the impact of the book.
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Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness.
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Speaker 5: I think probably the degree to which people who are
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Speaker 5: not black have said that the book has helped them really,
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Speaker 5: And I think it's because there are some dimensions of
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Speaker 5: mental health that are universal.
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Speaker 3: You know, people worry, you know.
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Speaker 5: People have difficulties with sadness and low moments, and so
4:23
Speaker 5: what I do in the book is.
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Speaker 3: To talk about what do you do with that?
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Speaker 5: So given those moments, and they you know, they're transient,
4:28
Speaker 5: like sometimes it's here, sometimes it's not. If we don't
4:31
Speaker 5: address it, it can escalate, and so I talk about
4:34
Speaker 5: that because we're humans, so it relates to it relates
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Speaker 5: for a lot of different communities.
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Speaker 2: And if you could add one chapter now right it's
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Speaker 2: been five years, if there's something that you missed it
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Speaker 2: you just wanted to add one chapter to discuss, what
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Speaker 2: would that chapter be on?
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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
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Speaker 5: You know what I have thought about I will say
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Speaker 5: the most is when I talk about suicide. So I
4:53
Speaker 5: start there in the book. I didn't necessarily want to
4:57
Speaker 5: start there, but the publishers wanted to start art there
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Speaker 5: because that's my area of research. So that's the research
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Speaker 5: that I have been doing, you know, for more than
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Speaker 5: twenty years. It's trying to understand risk and resilience related
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Speaker 5: to mental health crisis when someone decides they don't want
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Speaker 5: to live anymore.
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Speaker 1: And so the.
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Speaker 5: Publisher said you need to start there, and I was like, ooh,
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Speaker 5: I don't. I don't think that's a good idea, you know,
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Speaker 5: not for my community. And since then we've had conversations
5:21
Speaker 5: and they say, you know, okay, yeah, we kind of
5:23
Speaker 5: get it. And so that's one thing I would definitely
5:25
Speaker 5: do is to ease folks into that conversation maybe at
5:28
Speaker 5: the end of the book rather than starting there.
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Speaker 3: So just so you're prepared, I kind of start there, yes.
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Speaker 2: Take I when to ask one thing about suicide before
5:38
Speaker 2: you move on. You know, I was talking to my
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Speaker 2: wife about suicide because you see the suicide rates increase,
5:43
Speaker 2: especially with young kids. People blame it on social media,
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Speaker 2: They blame on so many different things. Do you feel
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Speaker 2: like a lot of times a suicide is based off
5:50
Speaker 2: of people not believing somebody's going through like almost like
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Speaker 2: I'm going to do it because I'm going to show you.
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Speaker 2: Do you see that a lot?
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Speaker 5: I don't what I do see though, is people who
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Speaker 5: are in crisis and don't have the language to communicate
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Speaker 5: one or or they don't think people will believe them,
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Speaker 5: you know. So people are struggling, and there are a
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Speaker 5: lot of folks who are struggling, you know, especially especially
6:12
Speaker 5: now and increasingly, and they don't have the wherewithal to
6:15
Speaker 5: manage what they're going through.
6:16
Speaker 3: Or to be able to talk to folks who.
6:19
Speaker 5: Are not going to judge them, because y'all know, there's
6:22
Speaker 5: a lot of judgenus in our society, unfortunately. And the
6:27
Speaker 5: sad thing about that judgingus is that it does keep
6:29
Speaker 5: people from getting help. But the reality is, and you know,
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Speaker 5: I talk about it throughout the book, that if we
6:35
Speaker 5: had a more informed society, and so this was my thinking.
6:38
Speaker 5: I wrote the book because the suicide death rates were
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Speaker 5: increasing for black children age five to eleven, it was
6:43
Speaker 5: decreasing at the same time for their white counterparts. And
6:47
Speaker 5: so in my mind, because I know when people are
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Speaker 5: in crisis, it's hard to get help, and so they
6:51
Speaker 5: need the folks around them to be able to say, hey,
6:54
Speaker 5: you know, you don't quite seem like yourself, or oh,
6:58
Speaker 5: I know you've been going through some things recently. I
6:59
Speaker 5: just want to check in on a zero to ten rating.
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Speaker 5: You know, where where are you? And so, in my mind,
7:06
Speaker 5: if we have a community around the struggling person, then
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Speaker 5: that's going to help them so much more than asking
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Speaker 5: them to reach out for help when they're already in crisis.
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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it.
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Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
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Speaker 6: Uh you called out beliefs like just pray about it
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Speaker 6: right as being part of the reason that black people
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Speaker 6: don't get formal help. What backlass did you face from that?
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Speaker 5: You know, it's funny because I did have a couple
7:28
Speaker 5: ordained ministers to read that chapter before it went into
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Speaker 5: the book, and one of them thanked me and the
7:35
Speaker 5: other one said, uh, doctor Walker, we're just going to
7:37
Speaker 5: have to.
7:37
Speaker 3: Agree to disagree.
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Speaker 5: And that was fine because I needed to be unapologetic
7:42
Speaker 5: in calling out some of the things that we do
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Speaker 5: in the community that are problematic, like saying pray about it.
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Speaker 5: You know, when someone is really very depressed, and if
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Speaker 5: you say that to them and then they start to think, well,
7:55
Speaker 5: maybe it's something wrong with me in my relationship with
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Speaker 5: God because I have been praying, Like why would you
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Speaker 5: think I haven't prayed? And so telling someone to pray
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Speaker 5: about it, will tell them what to pray for, ask
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Speaker 5: them to or advise them to pray for a mental
8:07
Speaker 5: health professional who's going to help them, you know, ask
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Speaker 5: them to pray for someone who's going to give them
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Speaker 5: a good, strong reference or something that they can do
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Speaker 5: or hold on to. But to say pray about it
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Speaker 5: and good luck, that's not helping people. And it saddens me.
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Speaker 5: And it's almost heartbreaking when I still hear that, you know,
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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty five.
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Speaker 1: And I hate that hearing it. I'm sorry.
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Speaker 4: I hate off people who think it got to be
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Speaker 4: an either or like you can have God and therapy
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Speaker 4: because if I break my arm right now, you might
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Speaker 4: pray for me, but you still won't send me to
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Speaker 4: a doctor.
8:36
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, And there's someone who's made a T shirt
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Speaker 5: that said, you know that I pray, I pray and
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Speaker 5: go to therapy like please do, and even even better,
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Speaker 5: pray for a therapist who has some spiritual mindedness that
8:50
Speaker 5: they can help you to integrate your faith in with
8:53
Speaker 5: the therapy. And that's something that I trained PhD psychology
8:57
Speaker 5: students to be able to do. You know, you got
8:59
Speaker 5: to first ask someone because not everyone is a believer,
9:01
Speaker 5: but ask them, you know, are you a person of faith?
9:04
Speaker 5: What does that mean to you to be a person
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Speaker 5: of faith? Let's work together in order to be able
9:10
Speaker 5: to help you using one of your resources, because yes,
9:12
Speaker 5: having faith is a resource. Having faith has gotten black
9:16
Speaker 5: folks through a lot when there was nothing else. And
9:19
Speaker 5: I talk about that to my one of my newest books,
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Speaker 5: You Know, no racial Elephants in the therapy room. I
9:23
Speaker 5: talked to specifically to therapists to be able to work
9:26
Speaker 5: with their clients and including their faith.
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Speaker 4: I think the Potter's House has done a fantastic job
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Speaker 4: of combining the two. You know, Bish you TDJ, Sagax,
9:34
Speaker 4: Roberts Torrey, like they've they always talk about God.
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Speaker 1: But then also you've got to bring into.
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Speaker 4: Mental health professionals when this actual mental health crisis is
9:41
Speaker 4: going on.
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Speaker 5: Yes, because a lot of folks don't understand, you know,
9:44
Speaker 5: the psychological and the psychiatric part of it that you know,
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Speaker 5: we can't expect for pastors and ministers to do that.
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Speaker 5: That's not their training. For some of them it is,
9:52
Speaker 5: but for most it's not.
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Speaker 4: You were talking about the language earlier, and that's a
9:56
Speaker 4: conversation we always have, you know, here on the show
9:58
Speaker 4: about how everybody has learned a lot of their language, right,
10:01
Speaker 4: whether it's you know, depression, anxiety. Do you think that
10:05
Speaker 4: people are self diagnosing too much? Are that just how
10:07
Speaker 4: awareness starts?
10:10
Speaker 5: I think it's good for awareness because one of some
10:12
Speaker 5: of the feedback that I've gotten about the book is
10:14
Speaker 5: folks saying they didn't know what was going on with them,
10:16
Speaker 5: and so they appreciate having language to be able to
10:19
Speaker 5: communicate what's going on for them. So that's definitely a
10:22
Speaker 5: good thing. But I do think that there is a
10:25
Speaker 5: lot of self diagnosis and it ends there. So if
10:28
Speaker 5: your diagnosis is I have higher than what is helpful
10:32
Speaker 5: level of anxiety, go see a professional. If it is
10:37
Speaker 5: my depression keeps me from being able to cook meals
10:40
Speaker 5: for my family, I don't know what to do, go
10:43
Speaker 5: see a professional who can help diagnose and give a
10:47
Speaker 5: roadmap for what needs to happen next. But yeah, the
10:50
Speaker 5: TikTok therapy is kind of concerning the kid.
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Speaker 2: The kids is what scares me because the kid will
10:56
Speaker 2: say I'm depressed, and then if you ask the kay,
10:58
Speaker 2: well what does depressed mean?
11:00
Speaker 1: I don't know.
11:00
Speaker 2: I can't even say I don't know I'm just upset
11:02
Speaker 2: I failed the test and I'm depressed. You no, you're
11:03
Speaker 2: not depressed.
11:04
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
11:04
Speaker 2: But that's my only fear.
11:06
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask. We had on that for a second.
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Speaker 4: Isn't that how we Isn't that a thing though, because
11:10
Speaker 4: like when we were young, we knew we were feeling something.
11:13
Speaker 1: We just didn't know what it was. We didn't even
11:15
Speaker 1: have the language to say depressed.
11:17
Speaker 2: But you could be sad. Depressed is different being sad,
11:21
Speaker 2: like it's different.
11:22
Speaker 1: But doesn't certain can sadness lead to the depression? Constant sadness? Right?
11:27
Speaker 5: Yes, So if you're sad for several weeks, if you're
11:32
Speaker 5: sad for for two weeks or more, then you could
11:36
Speaker 5: be depressed. I mean there there's certainly levels to depression,
11:40
Speaker 5: and that's why help it's helpful to go to a licensed,
11:43
Speaker 5: trained professional to be able to disentangle what might be happening. So, yeah,
11:50
Speaker 5: if you fail to test, I want you to be sad.
11:52
Speaker 1: I'm sad.
11:53
Speaker 2: I'm sad for the day. I'm sad for a couple
11:55
Speaker 2: of hours, but that doesn't mean depressed because tomorrow you're
11:57
Speaker 2: back outside playing.
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Speaker 3: Soccer exactly exactly, and that's what we're.
12:00
Speaker 2: It's a very dangerous even anxiety. Like when I hear
12:02
Speaker 2: a kid say it, I'm like, I just realized what
12:05
Speaker 2: anxiety was a couple of years ago. How you know
12:07
Speaker 2: what it is to us?
12:09
Speaker 5: But they're smart, but you know, so for those of
12:11
Speaker 5: us who are you know, who are older, who can
12:14
Speaker 5: talk to young people, we can just ask what does
12:16
Speaker 5: that mean for you?
12:17
Speaker 3: What does that look like for you?
12:19
Speaker 5: Because even as a professional, if I'm seeing someone or
12:23
Speaker 5: a client for the first time, I'm asking them they
12:25
Speaker 5: because they come in, they watch TikTok, you know, they
12:28
Speaker 5: come in and they're saying, I'm depressed, and I still
12:32
Speaker 5: need to know what does your depression look like? Because
12:34
Speaker 5: your depression might be, you know, not being not wanting
12:37
Speaker 5: to eat, Maybe you feel really very sad and you
12:39
Speaker 5: don't want to be around people. But your depression might
12:42
Speaker 5: be like you're doing too much, you know, because you're
12:44
Speaker 5: trying to compensate for the depression, and your depression might
12:47
Speaker 5: look like you're overeating. And everyone is experiencing depression, and
12:51
Speaker 5: so we have to be able to ask not just
12:53
Speaker 5: for our clients, but for everyday people, what does that
12:56
Speaker 5: look like for you? Because It also gives us a
12:58
Speaker 5: point of intervention. You know, So if you're feeling more
13:00
Speaker 5: like you need to be isolated from folks, then okay,
13:03
Speaker 5: maybe I'll let you go be to yourself for a
13:05
Speaker 5: little while, and then I'll check in and say, Okay,
13:07
Speaker 5: how are you doing today. We don't even have to
13:09
Speaker 5: talk about the situation that you're going through. I just
13:12
Speaker 5: want you to know I'm here for you. People need
13:14
Speaker 5: to know that someone is going to be there for
13:17
Speaker 5: them and that they're not going to judge them.
13:19
Speaker 1: I think whatever I think.
13:22
Speaker 4: Basically, you're just telling people, don't self not diagnose if
13:24
Speaker 4: you think there's something there, and go seek help from professional.
13:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, please, gotcha? Please.
13:31
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask to what are some of the
13:32
Speaker 2: myths that our community still have with therapy?
13:35
Speaker 1: Right?
13:35
Speaker 2: We had an artist's name is Rob four nine. You
13:38
Speaker 2: heard of him? What the helly? Okay, don't worry about it.
13:40
Speaker 2: But he was saying basically that he feels like he
13:44
Speaker 2: needs therapy, but he doesn't necessarily want to go because
13:48
Speaker 2: he can't. He doesn't see himself talking to them. People
13:51
Speaker 2: don't trust them, you know, he doesn't trust them. So
13:53
Speaker 2: what are some of the myths that you still.
13:54
Speaker 5: See, well, that's certainly one of them. They gonna tell
13:57
Speaker 5: all my business, and that's important. We you know, you
14:00
Speaker 5: can't have folks, you can't have your business in the
14:01
Speaker 5: street like that's something that is unacceptable in our community.
14:06
Speaker 5: And so for that person. And I encounter a lot
14:09
Speaker 5: of those folks who are struggling. You see it, you know,
14:12
Speaker 5: we see it. But if they're not ready, then you
14:16
Speaker 5: can't force them to go and talk to someone. That's
14:20
Speaker 5: that's one part. And I there's so many folks, you know,
14:23
Speaker 5: and that's why we have to be non judgmental because
14:25
Speaker 5: if we say, like this is what I see, just
14:27
Speaker 5: want you to know I'm concerned, and then back off,
14:29
Speaker 5: then they know who they can go and talk to,
14:31
Speaker 5: like this person express concern, they seem concerned about me,
14:33
Speaker 5: I will go to them. But yes, those big myths
14:36
Speaker 5: that are those people are going to tell on my business.
14:38
Speaker 5: That's one part. The other part is what can they
14:41
Speaker 5: tell me. They're not gonna be able to tell me.
14:43
Speaker 5: They don't they don't even know me. But that's part
14:45
Speaker 5: of the process, is getting to know the client. There
14:49
Speaker 5: isn't a single person who is sit in front of
14:51
Speaker 5: me that I would say, I know their life story,
14:53
Speaker 5: I know how to help them. I'm gonna start with questions.
14:56
Speaker 5: I got questions first, and then the other part is
15:00
Speaker 5: you know something. I think that is they're gonna make
15:03
Speaker 5: me someone that I'm not and I need to maintain myself.
15:07
Speaker 5: Like I don't know a professional who has the power
15:09
Speaker 5: to be able to magically make someone different. The goal
15:13
Speaker 5: would be to make them a better functioning person, you know,
15:16
Speaker 5: to take on their responsibilities and do the best that
15:18
Speaker 5: they can, but not to make them a different person.
15:20
Speaker 2: I do have a question what is a therapist allowed
15:22
Speaker 2: to talk about?
15:23
Speaker 1: Right?
15:23
Speaker 2: So if I see a murder, if I murder somebody,
15:28
Speaker 2: if I see domestic violence, if I see somebody getting hurt,
15:31
Speaker 2: it always brings me back to the Mendez brothers right
15:33
Speaker 2: where they were talking to the therapists, and the therapists
15:35
Speaker 2: use some of the stuff on the court case. So
15:37
Speaker 2: when you see stuff like that and something is going
15:39
Speaker 2: through my mind, I'm like, I ain't gonna tell nobody
15:42
Speaker 2: because what if they use it later? But then I
15:45
Speaker 2: might have to tell somebody to heal. So what can
15:47
Speaker 2: you guys tell?
15:49
Speaker 1: And what you know?
15:50
Speaker 2: What is just you know, patient crime privilege.
15:52
Speaker 1: Yes, you got to go to prison for us, you can.
15:57
Speaker 2: But I'm sure there's people that have seen crimes, have
16:00
Speaker 2: yet crimes, and they're going through things like I'll just
16:02
Speaker 2: use Robe four nine again. He said that he's seen
16:04
Speaker 2: so many things in his past, he seemed death, so
16:06
Speaker 2: much of his past, but he might not want to
16:08
Speaker 2: tell because he might want not want to get some
16:10
Speaker 2: money in trouble.
16:11
Speaker 3: Well, in that example, he can say I've seen.
16:15
Speaker 5: Okay, So anyone can say they've seen something without giving
16:20
Speaker 5: you know, facts or specifics and not expect for the
16:23
Speaker 5: police to come in and haul them off. But what
16:25
Speaker 5: I will say is so we talk in the first
16:27
Speaker 5: session about confidentiality, like confidentiality is part of the bedrock
16:31
Speaker 5: of what we do as licensed professionals, Like you can't
16:33
Speaker 5: just go out and yap about what people have been
16:36
Speaker 5: sharing or what they've disclosed in therapy. Now, the other
16:40
Speaker 5: thing that we emphasize is if someone says that they
16:42
Speaker 5: could be a harm to themselves or danger to themselves
16:45
Speaker 5: or to someone else, then that information might have to
16:48
Speaker 5: be disclosed in order to be able to protect that
16:50
Speaker 5: person's life or to protect the life of someone else
16:54
Speaker 5: if they are if there's a danger or abuse of children,
16:58
Speaker 5: elderly or people who have disabilities or different abilities, then
17:02
Speaker 5: that would have to be disclosed, and to be honest,
17:04
Speaker 5: it varies by state, but that's, you know, kind of
17:06
Speaker 5: a minimum threshold to be aware of because at the
17:09
Speaker 5: end of the day, the client has to be able
17:11
Speaker 5: to talk to their therapists because they aren't going to
17:13
Speaker 5: be able to get the healing and the help that
17:15
Speaker 5: they need if they can't get some stuff off of
17:17
Speaker 5: their chest. But then once they do that, then there
17:19
Speaker 5: has to be some understanding about what's going to happen next.
17:22
Speaker 4: You haven't mentionalbody so toxic like they made your therapist
17:26
Speaker 4: energy say yeah, I can't help you.
17:31
Speaker 5: So there have been a couple of occasions, and so
17:33
Speaker 5: what I have done for the most part is supervise
17:35
Speaker 5: PhD students in training. And there have been occasions, as
17:40
Speaker 5: an example, where the client was racist, or the client
17:45
Speaker 5: was doing harm to animals and the therapist was having
17:49
Speaker 5: a really difficult time because of I mean, that would
17:52
Speaker 5: be hard for hopefully anyone and supervisors do approach this
17:58
Speaker 5: work differently, I will say that, and that's one of
18:00
Speaker 5: the reasons you may get different stories and different narratives
18:02
Speaker 5: from different professionals because folks approach some of the work differently.
18:06
Speaker 5: But for me, you can't have a client who is
18:08
Speaker 5: disrespecting you or who is making you feel nauseous or
18:11
Speaker 5: uncomfortable on the inside and do your work like that's
18:15
Speaker 5: you can't do that. And so we're human first, like
18:18
Speaker 5: you know therapists professionals, we are human first, but we
18:21
Speaker 5: still also have a responsibility and obligation to be able
18:24
Speaker 5: to provide the best possible care.
18:26
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
18:28
Speaker 4: We got a good friend, good friend of mine, name's
18:30
Speaker 4: Humble the Poet, and he put out a book called Unanxious,
18:32
Speaker 4: Fifty simple truths to help overthinkers feel less stress and
18:35
Speaker 4: more calm. And I want to read just a quick
18:38
Speaker 4: little line from it because I want to know what
18:39
Speaker 4: you think about it. He says, life doesn't begin after
18:41
Speaker 4: the obstacles. Life is the obstacles, and we have to
18:44
Speaker 4: unlearn the idea.
18:45
Speaker 1: That we need.
18:45
Speaker 4: I would even want a life free of chaos, stress,
18:48
Speaker 4: and anxiety. We grow from facing challenges and exploring our limits.
18:53
Speaker 4: And the book encourages people to face their stressors and
18:57
Speaker 4: triggers head on with research techniques and journal prompts and
19:02
Speaker 4: We had a discussion here on Breakfast Club because I'm like,
19:06
Speaker 4: if I know something triggers me, I feel that I
19:10
Speaker 4: reserve the right to disconnect from it and set my
19:12
Speaker 4: boundary and not deal with that thing. He feels like,
19:14
Speaker 4: you should sit with the thing so the thing doesn't
19:18
Speaker 4: trigger you anymore.
19:20
Speaker 5: Well, I think you know how I feel about the
19:22
Speaker 5: word should, so I avoid it at all costs. And
19:25
Speaker 5: so if there is something in you that says, in
19:27
Speaker 5: this moment, I need to avoid this thing, I'm going
19:31
Speaker 5: to honor that. But I'm also going to ask you
19:33
Speaker 5: questions about what is happening for you? What are you
19:36
Speaker 5: telling yourself? So I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist, and so
19:40
Speaker 5: for me, you know, thoughts connect with behaviors, connect with feelings.
19:44
Speaker 5: So it all starts with, yes, something happened, But what
19:46
Speaker 5: is your thought in response to the thing? So is
19:49
Speaker 5: your thought in that moment? I can't deal with this.
19:52
Speaker 5: This is gonna hurt me, This is gonna harm me.
19:54
Speaker 5: I can't survive this because it happens, it plays out
19:57
Speaker 5: automatically before folks recognize, and so we have to slow
20:01
Speaker 5: down the process. Okay, tell me the facts. Tell me
20:04
Speaker 5: what happened, tell me what your next thought was, because
20:08
Speaker 5: most people don't have a sense of what was the
20:10
Speaker 5: next thought, and as a therapist, I have to slow
20:13
Speaker 5: things way down to understand. However, in order for you
20:17
Speaker 5: to feel like I can deal with this, whatever this
20:20
Speaker 5: situation is, or I need to be able to deal
20:22
Speaker 5: with this in order to be successful in life, then
20:25
Speaker 5: we got to figure out how to allow you to
20:26
Speaker 5: be able to do that, because yes, I think what
20:27
Speaker 5: I heard him saying was, you know, people need to
20:29
Speaker 5: be able to adapt to new and novel situations and
20:33
Speaker 5: circumstances in order to grow. In order to feel like, Okay,
20:36
Speaker 5: I got this, you know I can be successful in life.
20:40
Speaker 5: But I would I would pause, I'd hit the pause button.
20:43
Speaker 5: Something happens, person wants to avoid, and I'm like, okay,
20:46
Speaker 5: tell me what just happened, because again I'm asking questions.
20:48
Speaker 5: I want to know what's going on for you, because
20:50
Speaker 5: I don't assume anything about anybody.
20:52
Speaker 2: See, I was like when he was there, I was like,
20:54
Speaker 2: f that adapt right, And I'll explain to you if
20:57
Speaker 2: I don't like you because you're a negative person. You're
20:59
Speaker 2: always putting me down, and I just don't feel good
21:03
Speaker 2: energy around you. You don't affect me in any which way.
21:07
Speaker 2: So I can cut you off and say, you know what,
21:08
Speaker 2: I'm not answering your phone anymore. I don't work with you.
21:10
Speaker 2: I don't have to see you, and I should that
21:12
Speaker 2: should be my right to do that, because my energy
21:14
Speaker 2: is more important than this friendship. I don't have to
21:17
Speaker 2: sit in it. I don't have to adapt. I don't
21:18
Speaker 2: care if you like me or not. But that's how
21:20
Speaker 2: we should be. I think a lot of times we
21:21
Speaker 2: try to adapt in things, and we try to make
21:24
Speaker 2: things right, and I think a lot of times it
21:25
Speaker 2: hurts more than help.
21:27
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and I respect that one hundred percent.
21:30
Speaker 5: And I can say that there have been maybe the
21:33
Speaker 5: middle ground, because you never know, you just you never
21:35
Speaker 5: know if someone says something to you, or they bring
21:38
Speaker 5: you a certain kind of energy, and maybe you do
21:41
Speaker 5: have some relationship with the person that you're willing to
21:43
Speaker 5: consider and preserve. Why not say to them, you know,
21:46
Speaker 5: when you do X, Y and Z, when you do
21:48
Speaker 5: that thing right there, when you do this, this is
21:51
Speaker 5: how I feel when that happens. Maybe they didn't know,
21:55
Speaker 5: you know, maybe they thought they were doing a good thing.
21:57
Speaker 5: And I think that allows us to be more in community,
21:59
Speaker 5: because we need.
22:01
Speaker 3: More and more community.
22:02
Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying. I used to try to
22:04
Speaker 2: thinkams over there to show me something different, right, Short,
22:08
Speaker 2: I used to do that too, Like you try to
22:09
Speaker 2: adapt to people, you do things that sometimes you don't
22:12
Speaker 2: want to do because you feel like it's the right
22:13
Speaker 2: thing to do. Right, and Short Thinkham's over there would
22:16
Speaker 2: be like, no, I'm not gonna do it because that
22:18
Speaker 2: doesn't make me happy. It might make you happy for
22:21
Speaker 2: what you do. I work hard, but I want to
22:23
Speaker 2: protect my piece. And I didn't understand it for a while,
22:25
Speaker 2: right because Short things just wouldn't go He was like,
22:27
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it, You're not catch me, and I
22:28
Speaker 2: wouldn't get it. But then after a while I understood,
22:31
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, if this is gonna up my piece,
22:35
Speaker 2: if this is not gonna make me happy, I'm gonna
22:37
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stage in my life where you know what effort.
22:39
Speaker 2: And I agree with Shaw Thinkhams.
22:42
Speaker 1: It's a little pet nickname for me. Sey'all, men can't
22:45
Speaker 1: even just say my name. He can't even say my name.
22:46
Speaker 4: He gotta give me a little cute nickname to be
22:48
Speaker 4: vulnerable just to express himself.
22:50
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, that make you feel better?
22:52
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, thank you, thank you, my wiffle colored negro.
22:55
Speaker 1: Thank you. It's my babe over there.
22:57
Speaker 3: That's such a beautiful moment.
22:59
Speaker 1: Yes, look, so this is my question.
23:06
Speaker 3: I don't know if maybe you can help me with this.
23:08
Speaker 1: Right, you don't even know what you just said. That's
23:09
Speaker 1: what that's the funny question.
23:14
Speaker 6: That was a moment for him to get a short look.
23:17
Speaker 6: I need uh So, just last night, right, I could
23:23
Speaker 6: not go to sleep. I could not go to sleep.
23:25
Speaker 6: I have problems sleeping. And I noticed you said at
23:28
Speaker 6: the beginning of the interview right where. But my thing
23:31
Speaker 6: is I can't turn my mind off. That's the that's
23:35
Speaker 6: the main thing. I don't know how to turn my
23:37
Speaker 6: brain off. I'm thinking about things I could be doing
23:41
Speaker 6: rather than getting sleep. I'm thinking about Damn, I forgot
23:44
Speaker 6: to do this today. It's not enough hours in a day.
23:47
Speaker 3: I you know what I.
23:48
Speaker 6: Mean, Like I have like a whole schedule in my mind.
23:50
Speaker 6: I never get it done. I feel guilty when I'm
23:53
Speaker 6: just sitting around, right, But I'm not supposed to feel
23:57
Speaker 6: like that, right Because also the guy that they were
24:01
Speaker 6: just referring to Humble poet. He was also saying we're
24:04
Speaker 6: not designed to take in as much that we take
24:08
Speaker 6: in now between like the social media, everything that we're fed,
24:11
Speaker 6: like even the algorithm. Like I because I've been thinking
24:14
Speaker 6: about it since he said it, and it's like, yo, like,
24:16
Speaker 6: first thing I do, I wake up, You know, I
24:19
Speaker 6: will pray, but I don't pray till I get in
24:20
Speaker 6: the car. I check my phone and then like even
24:23
Speaker 6: when I'm scrolling, it'll be a video, say, it'll be comedy,
24:26
Speaker 6: then it'll be another one about church, that it'll be
24:27
Speaker 6: nothing about something else about Donald Trump, to be something
24:30
Speaker 6: about the gaye you know, they everywhere, and then I
24:32
Speaker 6: scroll up again and it'll be something else. And then
24:34
Speaker 6: you know, it's like but I'm not getting a chance
24:37
Speaker 6: to process each and every video, right, So it's so
24:41
Speaker 6: much information that I'm downloading, and it's like I'm not
24:45
Speaker 6: a robot.
24:45
Speaker 2: I supposed to be okay.
24:46
Speaker 6: With silence for a while, you know, then I got
24:49
Speaker 6: a nine month old. Then I'm a wife, and then
24:51
Speaker 6: I got It's so much so when I'm laying down,
24:54
Speaker 6: I cannot silence my mind my thoughts to go to sleep.
24:59
Speaker 3: Ever, can't ever silence.
25:01
Speaker 6: Most of the time, not not ever, because weed will
25:05
Speaker 6: help me do that just being honest with you, Like
25:07
Speaker 6: I will hit a blunt and I will laugh and
25:10
Speaker 6: then I'll be out for a minute. But that's really
25:13
Speaker 6: the only thing that helps me get good rest weed.
25:17
Speaker 5: So you know, and I've heard you talk about your schedule,
25:20
Speaker 5: you know, and you know getting up and I think
25:23
Speaker 5: you said like four in the morning, but then you
25:25
Speaker 5: go to bed late at night, and so you know,
25:28
Speaker 5: So there's so many different layers to this, because yes,
25:31
Speaker 5: you are doing a lot. But one of the things
25:34
Speaker 5: that I heard you say just now was even when
25:36
Speaker 5: you're kind of sitting, you feel like you're supposed to
25:39
Speaker 5: be doing something, and so you're also telling yourself, I'm
25:42
Speaker 5: supposed to be doing something other than resting. So that's
25:46
Speaker 5: that's one thing for you to be mindful of. But then,
25:49
Speaker 5: you know, I think it's especially in this day and age,
25:51
Speaker 5: it's easy to wake up or not to fall asleep
25:55
Speaker 5: because your mind is racing.
25:57
Speaker 3: I was telling my husband this morning.
25:59
Speaker 5: I woke up at three o clock and I started
26:01
Speaker 5: to think about this conversation, and then I was thinking, Okay,
26:04
Speaker 5: I can say this I'll say that ooh and ooh,
26:05
Speaker 5: and I was like, okay, stop and I know better, right,
26:08
Speaker 5: I have the tools and the resources, and I was
26:11
Speaker 5: like quit it. And then that didn't work, and I said, Okay,
26:13
Speaker 5: we're gonna do ten more minutes. And then that didn't work,
26:16
Speaker 5: and I was like, Okay, we have to start doing
26:18
Speaker 5: our progressive muscle relaxation in order to be able to
26:21
Speaker 5: calm down.
26:21
Speaker 3: So there are strategies.
26:23
Speaker 5: Progressive muscle relaxation. So for me, it's when I close
26:26
Speaker 5: my eyes and I'm breathing deeply, and I tell myself
26:29
Speaker 5: that with each exhalation to release the tension. And I
26:32
Speaker 5: start with my forehead and eyebrows because I'm literally sometimes
26:35
Speaker 5: like this in bed. It was in Bens, like yeah,
26:39
Speaker 5: and so I have to tell myself to release and
26:40
Speaker 5: I go everybody part, ears, nose, and then I allow
26:44
Speaker 5: my body to be able to relax into the moment
26:47
Speaker 5: because I'm literally not just thinking, but I'm feeling it
26:50
Speaker 5: in my body and.
26:51
Speaker 3: I have to be able to relax.
26:54
Speaker 5: That the other thing that I recommend, and I put
26:57
Speaker 5: this in the workbook. So I did the unapologetic guy,
26:59
Speaker 5: and I have then the power legetic workbook is giving
27:01
Speaker 5: folks permission to before you go to bed, like some
27:04
Speaker 5: people need to keep a notepad in a pen, not
27:06
Speaker 5: the phone, but a notepad and a pen by the
27:08
Speaker 5: bed so that when all of these thoughts come to mind,
27:11
Speaker 5: you write them down. You write them down before you
27:14
Speaker 5: get into bed, Like everything that comes about, okay, write
27:16
Speaker 5: it down and then okay, try that if that you
27:19
Speaker 5: know you wake up, Okay, write somewhere down.
27:21
Speaker 3: I didn't have a notepad last night. I was like, okay,
27:23
Speaker 3: we're just gonna.
27:23
Speaker 5: Bug this out, but be able to write down all
27:27
Speaker 5: the things that come to your mind to release it,
27:29
Speaker 5: because otherwise you're going to ruminate about it, and that
27:32
Speaker 5: rumination will absolutely keep you up for hours.
27:36
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I learned a lot of those techniques from you.
27:38
Speaker 4: And it's funny because you know, my three year old
27:41
Speaker 4: and look at me, see you see daddy, why you
27:43
Speaker 4: doing like this? And I don't even realize I'm doing it.
27:46
Speaker 4: And then when she tells me that, that's when I
27:47
Speaker 4: do those I try to do that technique to just relax.
27:50
Speaker 4: But another thing I want you to talk to Jess about.
27:53
Speaker 4: When you go to your website, it says reclaim your mind.
27:57
Speaker 4: What does that statement mean to you?
28:01
Speaker 5: We are a very very powerful people. And this is
28:06
Speaker 5: what I'm hoping that we eventually get to, you know,
28:08
Speaker 5: maybe not in the next five years or even ten years,
28:11
Speaker 5: but for the next generation, that we get back to
28:14
Speaker 5: knowing who we are as black people, as people of
28:17
Speaker 5: African descent. You know, there's so much negativity associated folks
28:21
Speaker 5: like I don't want to be African, you know, some
28:23
Speaker 5: folks now say I just want to be American. But
28:26
Speaker 5: the brilliance, the collective brilliance in our community is there,
28:30
Speaker 5: but it is way down by anxiety and depression. And
28:34
Speaker 5: for those who don't know, we talk a lot about
28:35
Speaker 5: anxiety and depression because those are the two most commonly
28:38
Speaker 5: diagnosed challenges. When we are way down with that, and
28:42
Speaker 5: sometimes it comes from racism, microaggressions out of nowhere. You know,
28:47
Speaker 5: yourt your job, just trying to mind your business, working
28:49
Speaker 5: on a project, and somebody says, oh, how'd you get
28:51
Speaker 5: that job?
28:52
Speaker 3: And you're like, well, what do you mean by that?
28:53
Speaker 5: And you're ruminating about that, Like, we just get weighed
28:56
Speaker 5: down by so much stuff that when we can get
28:59
Speaker 5: back to a place when we recognize that we are
29:02
Speaker 5: a brilliant people that when we can come together, maybe
29:05
Speaker 5: sometimes kneel together if need be, When we can come together,
29:08
Speaker 5: then we can reclaim who we are and we can
29:11
Speaker 5: use our immense talents and gifts that we have. Then
29:14
Speaker 5: we can use them, and then we will live collectively
29:17
Speaker 5: much more fulfilling lives, like we weren't meant to exist
29:20
Speaker 5: as individuals. Like that's a Eurocentric way of seeing the world.
29:24
Speaker 5: We are African people. You know, we don't have brother
29:27
Speaker 5: and you know, we don't have cousin and distant cousin
29:29
Speaker 5: and in laws. You know, we have brother and sister,
29:32
Speaker 5: like we are family, and so we need to get
29:33
Speaker 5: back to that in order to kind of resist the
29:36
Speaker 5: stuff that's happening out there.
29:38
Speaker 4: I got a couple of question because you talked about
29:39
Speaker 4: psychological fortitude earlier, which is a concept you introduced in
29:42
Speaker 4: the book and declare confusion around mental health. You talk
29:45
Speaker 4: about psychological fortitude, can you break down what that is
29:47
Speaker 4: just for people and why that's the game changing?
29:49
Speaker 5: Absolutely, because you know, just think on a day to
29:52
Speaker 5: day basis, you ask somebody how they're doing, and they
29:54
Speaker 5: say I'm good, I'm good.
29:57
Speaker 3: You know, they may or may not mean it.
29:59
Speaker 5: But that's the answer that they give because oftentimes, you know,
30:02
Speaker 5: we think people don't want to know, maybe we don't
30:04
Speaker 5: know how well we're doing. But psychological fortitude is the
30:07
Speaker 5: zero to ten rating of a few different things. It's
30:11
Speaker 5: it's basically your capacity to function. So take care of
30:15
Speaker 5: your work responsibilities and or school responsibilities, because this can
30:18
Speaker 5: apply to children and teens. Also to be able to
30:22
Speaker 5: take care of your family.
30:23
Speaker 3: Maybe you got the in.
30:23
Speaker 5: Laws at the house, you got other cousins, you got
30:25
Speaker 5: folks at the house. To be able to take care
30:28
Speaker 5: of your physical health. You know, health health is a
30:31
Speaker 5: serious concern in our community for a number of different reasons.
30:34
Speaker 5: We got to be able to exercise and eat, write
30:36
Speaker 5: and do all the things while not sleeping. You know,
30:38
Speaker 5: you want a bag of chip sometimes when you can't
30:39
Speaker 5: sleep in your stressed out I love dessert, you know.
30:42
Speaker 5: And then we also need to be able to withstand
30:44
Speaker 5: the threats, like the things that are coming after us
30:47
Speaker 5: while we're still trying to tap into our gifts and talents.
30:49
Speaker 5: You know, in some communities not using your gifts and
30:53
Speaker 5: talents as a sin. But for us, it's kind of like,
30:55
Speaker 5: you know, you're just going through the motions and hoping.
30:58
Speaker 3: For the best.
30:59
Speaker 5: So if I say, you know, I say, envy, you
31:01
Speaker 5: know zero to ten, you don't have to tell us,
31:02
Speaker 5: but you could if you like, you know, on a
31:04
Speaker 5: zero to ten, you know, zero mean you have nothing
31:06
Speaker 5: in the tank, and ten is you cooking? You know,
31:09
Speaker 5: where would you say you are on your capacity to
31:11
Speaker 5: be able to do all those things?
31:13
Speaker 1: All?
31:13
Speaker 6: Right?
31:13
Speaker 2: Now?
31:14
Speaker 5: Nine you're the nine, and so you're at a great place.
31:17
Speaker 5: And so I might say, Okay, you know, Mby's good.
31:20
Speaker 5: You know we're gonna keep it moving. But if he
31:21
Speaker 5: said like four or lower, then that says to me,
31:25
Speaker 5: as someone in his community, that I need to just
31:28
Speaker 5: check in and say, hey, you know you're at a four, but.
31:30
Speaker 2: That's two day tomorrow. It could be a two.
31:32
Speaker 5: Tomorrow, it could be a two, right And if you
31:34
Speaker 5: stayed at a two for weeks, then we know it's
31:36
Speaker 5: a problem. But we have our two moments cause we're human.
31:40
Speaker 5: And then also for me, for myself, if I ask
31:43
Speaker 5: myself my own rating, and if it's too low, then
31:47
Speaker 5: I know that I probably need to be working on
31:48
Speaker 5: a boundary, Like I definitely don't need to be taken
31:51
Speaker 5: on anything else. I don't care who it is. I
31:53
Speaker 5: don't care what they ask. I cannot take on a
31:56
Speaker 5: single thing. If I'm at a six for me personally,
31:58
Speaker 5: if I'm at a six or lower, I'm I'm not
32:00
Speaker 5: doing anything else.
32:01
Speaker 3: I appreciate you. I can't today. Check in with me
32:04
Speaker 3: in three to four five months and or I need
32:08
Speaker 3: to add.
32:08
Speaker 5: Some sources of joy, you know, maybe reach out to
32:10
Speaker 5: someone that I haven't talked to in a while, who
32:12
Speaker 5: makes me smile, who I know isn't going to judge me.
32:15
Speaker 5: And I do have, you know, friends and folks who
32:17
Speaker 5: reach out to me and just say like, hey, what's
32:19
Speaker 5: your PF. SO PF for psychological fortitude? What's your PF
32:22
Speaker 5: right now? And depending on where I am, you know,
32:24
Speaker 5: I don't think about it for too long because you know,
32:27
Speaker 5: we can think. We want to get the right answer.
32:29
Speaker 5: I don't know what they're going to say, like just
32:31
Speaker 5: give a number. Like a number is so much more
32:33
Speaker 5: neutral than saying I'm good when I'm not, or risking
32:39
Speaker 5: saying you know, maybe someone else isn't ready for what
32:41
Speaker 5: all I might be going through.
32:42
Speaker 3: I begad of a number that tells you a lot.
32:45
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
32:46
Speaker 4: My last question is you know, you know, I love
32:48
Speaker 4: don't apologetic God to Black Pirns's Health. I swear by it.
32:51
Speaker 4: I think it's more than a book. It's a call
32:53
Speaker 4: to action. So what would progress look like in another
32:56
Speaker 4: five years from now if everybody really embrace the call
32:59
Speaker 4: to act that's.
33:00
Speaker 1: In this book?
33:01
Speaker 2: Wow?
33:01
Speaker 5: I love that question. So in another five years, we
33:06
Speaker 5: would have stronger communities where we're able to ask someone
33:10
Speaker 5: what's your PF right now? And if they say something
33:14
Speaker 5: that is a four or five, then you say, hey,
33:16
Speaker 5: do you have time right now? Let's check in, let's
33:19
Speaker 5: let's sit down. Or if they say something like a
33:21
Speaker 5: two or three, then someone in the community says, let
33:24
Speaker 5: me help you find a professional who can.
33:27
Speaker 3: Work with you. That it helps to build.
33:29
Speaker 5: Our communities, and that we have folks who are suffering
33:32
Speaker 5: less because you know, there are a lot of people
33:34
Speaker 5: who are suffering needlessly because they don't know whether or
33:38
Speaker 5: not this is mental health related or am I going crazy?
33:42
Speaker 5: Like we have legitimate language and understanding about what our
33:46
Speaker 5: psychological fortitude is. And I introduce that in part because
33:50
Speaker 5: and I think I mentioned this because when we hear
33:52
Speaker 5: mental health, we think something else. We need to get
33:55
Speaker 5: beyond that like we really need to get beyond this
33:58
Speaker 5: person is crazy, this person is having a nervous breakdown,
34:01
Speaker 5: Like that doesn't matter.
34:02
Speaker 3: We need to be able to function.
34:04
Speaker 5: But there are people who for sure have serious challenges
34:07
Speaker 5: and are hearing things that aren't there, and they do
34:10
Speaker 5: need to be able to connect with someone who's going
34:12
Speaker 5: to get them some medication. But I want us to
34:14
Speaker 5: normalize these conversations, get folks the help that they need
34:18
Speaker 5: so that every everyone can contribute to a better functioning society.
34:22
Speaker 2: All right, absolutely well, doctor Rida Walker, we appreciate a
34:24
Speaker 2: joining thank you. If you haven't got the book, pick
34:27
Speaker 2: up the book now is to fit the anniversary of
34:29
Speaker 2: the release of The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health.
34:31
Speaker 4: And the work book, the workbook that goes with The
34:33
Speaker 4: Unapologetic God to Black Mental Health. I tell everybody it
34:36
Speaker 4: is a muster read. It's one of them books that
34:38
Speaker 4: you have to have in your household. This is the
34:40
Speaker 4: book that we all needed, you know, growing up, Like
34:43
Speaker 4: you know, when our parents didn't know how to talk
34:45
Speaker 4: to us about it, or adults around us didn't know
34:47
Speaker 4: how to talk to us about mental health.
34:48
Speaker 1: This book right here laid it down quite flat.
34:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, can I can?
34:52
Speaker 3: I just add just two brief things.
34:54
Speaker 5: One, thank you so much to you, because you know,
34:57
Speaker 5: there have been a lot of people who said they
34:58
Speaker 5: got the book because of you didn't know any thing
35:00
Speaker 5: about it. So I am beyond grateful to you, Leonard
35:03
Speaker 5: forgetting the word out about the book. And also, folks
35:05
Speaker 5: can follow me. I'm most active on Instagram doctor Rita
35:08
Speaker 5: Walker dot com. Maybe I can get five hundred more
35:10
Speaker 5: followers to get me to twenty thousand for my birthday.
35:12
Speaker 3: Birthday day, It's Saturday.
35:15
Speaker 2: On Saturday, go follow doctor Rita Walker. Right do you
35:19
Speaker 2: say birthday, doctor Walker?
35:21
Speaker 4: You turn up.
35:24
Speaker 3: Birthday.
35:27
Speaker 1: It's doctor Rita Walker.
35:28
Speaker 2: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up
35:32
Speaker 2: in the morning.
35:32
Speaker 1: The Breakfast Club.