Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 509: Andy May - The BEST Reason to Take Your Whitetail Game On the Road

Transcript

Ep. 509: Andy May - The BEST Reason to Take Your Whitetail Game On the Road · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, home of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm your guest
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: host Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking with public land
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: white tail killer Andy May. All right, folks, welcome to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: by First Light. You might notice that this is not
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the voice of Mark Kenyon. He sent me an email
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: last week saying that he's off at a soap carving
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: convention in Peoria, Illinois, and that he hopes to level
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: up his skills so that his dolphins are as good
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: as his other work. I don't I don't really know
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: what he means by that, but I hope he achieves
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: that goal. And while he's working on it, you've got
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: me and Andy May. Andy is one of the most successful,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: well known public land bow hunters out there. He's easily
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: one of the most successful hunters alive today, from his
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: home state of Michigan to a pile of other states,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: and he just gets it done on great animals. And
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: he partially credits this to his love of woodsmanship, his
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: constant quest for knowledge, and his discipline. In this episode,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: which is kind of like a part two to last
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: week's show with Casey Smith. We talked about why Andy
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: chooses to hunt where he does, and instead of focusing
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: on trophy caliber, he focuses on hunting opportunities that will
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: make him better. We also go off on a bunch
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: of tangents to talk about social media influencers, deer managers,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of other stuff. I think you're really
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: going to enjoy this one because I know every time
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I talked to Andy, I get my faith in hunting
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: or the hunting industry renewed just a little bit, and
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I always learned something Andy May It's a pleasure to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: see again. Buddy, Hey, Tony, thanks for having me. How
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you doing. I'm good man. You got sick of me bothering? Yeah,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and you finally decided to sit down and and do
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a podcast, and we've got this is kind of a
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: part two. You know. I had Casey Smith on just
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: recently talking about kind of d y hunt planning and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: traveling to to find big Bucks on public land and
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: go have a good experience. We covered a lot of
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: stuff there, but you and I are going to take
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: a different route, different road on this because we Uh,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I think we kind of view hunting similarly, and and
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get into a lot of stuff there, but
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: we were just talking off air about like your workout
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: schedule and how important that is to your white tail hunting,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and we don't you know, we hear that out West
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: all the time, but we don't hear the benefits for
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: the white tail hunter very much. So just give me
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: a breakdown of like your year, just kind of like
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: when are you working out the hardest, when are you
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: kind of slacking off? And and what are you doing,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you know, to keep yourself healthy and happy? But also
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: how does that tie into your white tail hunting? Yeah,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I mean I take uh workout and fitness very seriously.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: It's something I'm very passionate about. I love it. UM
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I would say, you know, of the year, UM, it's
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: it's a major priority. UM I probably I would say
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: on average, you know, I go to the gym five
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: days a week. That would probably be the average. Some
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: day sometimes I go every day or maybe six days
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and some days maybe three or four. But I'd say,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: on average, um, five days a week. And I UM,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I incorporate like weightlifting and cardio and UM the reason
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I like to do that. Um. What aside from just
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: being healthy, I want I want longevity, you know, I
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: want I want to be able to grow old and
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: see my daughter do cool things. And I want to
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: keep hunting as as long as possible. Um. But it
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: just makes me feel good. UM. It's I think it's
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: a big advantage um when it comes to hunting, not
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: just the physical part. Um. You know, we all know
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: some hunters that aren't in the best shape that do
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: well and they're hardcore and they got they got this going,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the mental toughness and uh so I'm certain
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly not trying to say that this is a necessity,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: but for me personally, you know, when I feel strong
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and I feel healthy and my my joints feel good
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: and I'm I got good cardio, I feel like I'm
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: up for anything. Um, truth be told. I I do
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: ramp up the intensity and of my workouts and the
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: frequency leading up to UM hunting season, mainly focused on
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: the western hunts, because I know that I'm gonna be
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: putting a lot of miles on at elevation, a lot
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of up and down. It's gonna be hard on my knees.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Hard on my back, and I try to like train
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: myself to just be I guess the best I can
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: be going into that. It certainly helps with my white tail. Um.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I have a bad back, I have bad knees. UM.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: And the more the active I am kind of throughout
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the year, I do stretches, I do weights, I do cardio,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I keep everything. I try to keep everything, you know,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: running like a smooth, oiled machine. And you know, you
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you get into white tail season and it's like you're
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: sitting in a tree stand and you know there's a
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: lot of times where you're not mobile. Um. And it
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: really helps with like my back health and my knee health. UM,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: just continuing to kind of do that stuff. UM. So
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: one thing that we talked about off air, though, that
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I think is a huge benefit is what it does
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: for you mentally. UM. I think for me personally, like
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I've I've incorporated into my life so much. But I
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: enjoy going. But there's just some days, just like you,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: just like anybody, you don't want to go, you don't
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: feel like going, You're tired, you're worn down, you're sober,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And I always try to force my self to go anyway,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and um, I've I've I wasn't always like that, but
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I started to do that years and years ago, and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: what I've found for me personally, it's like it's kind
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: of changed my mindset um into like this disciplined mindset
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: where you know, I feel like it builds this mental
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: toughness and it translates into my hunting sometimes too. I
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: think because we've always been on we've all been on
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a bad hunt, you know, where nothing seems to be
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: going our way, or or a season that's just you know,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you can't seem to do anything right. I feel like,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just having that mental toughness just to
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: keep going after it and keep putting in that time
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: and that work and eventually, you know, things work out.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Um and just like two you know, like let's like
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: let's say you're on a big piece of public land.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: It's in the hill country, and you know, you might
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: a person that maybe doesn't have that mindset might when
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I want to go two miles back over three ridges,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: and they might be like, ah, you know, it's kind
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: of far. You know, I don't know, I'm a run
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: down well, I don't know. It's just like I've trained
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: myself like when I'm faced with like that decision or
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the easy one just hunt, you know, right off the
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: road here a half mile. It's like, if I'm fifty
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: fifty on them and I don't have a feel a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: stronger feeling one way or the other, it's like I
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: forced myself to pick that harder decision. It's just like
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I've found that I'm starting to do that more and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: more throughout life, and I don't know, it just feels good, man.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: It feels like you're you're willing to go the extra
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: mile and uh and when you don't feel like going,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you do it anyway. So I've been trying to kind
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of teach that that discipline thing to my daughter in
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: her sports, and uh, you know she's getting it. But yeah,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I think it. The way it benefits me is you know, multifaceted,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: you know, not just in normal life, but hunting as well.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Oh dude, when I when I quit drinking, I started
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: working out, I mean, I hated every second of it,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: but it was it is the best decision I've ever
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: made in my life. And the thing that I didn't
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: realize was, you know, I kind of thought, Okay, I'm
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: gonna be elk hunting. So I'm gonna do this anyway.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna try to get into shape. But
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: when it became a part of my life, I was
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: just like I felt like somebody had given me a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: secret to white tail hunting that I just could not
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: have known before. Like just like how you talk about
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: kind of the discipline, just feeling good doing stuff. I
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: got to a point where there was no settling, like
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: where you know, you think about it, you get kind
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: of run down or you're like, oh, this stands good
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: enough for this spot is good enough. When when you
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: don't feel the best, it's like really easy to default
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: to that settle mode. And man, when you're when you're
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: you know, used to run in a thousand miles a
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: year or you know, hitting the gym five days a
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: week or whatever you do, it's like you just you
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: kind of get into that mode where you're like, I'm
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I'm okay suffering, Like I'm okay being hungry, thirsty, tired,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: so or whatever. And I know the benefit on the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: other side of this struggle is gonna make me feel good.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: And it's probably I know people don't like hearing about
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the fitness thing in the white tailed world. But when
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: you when you like when you talk about going out
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to some public land chunks somewhere and hiking three miles in, Like,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna take that route for your hunting and
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: challenge yourself that way being used to being uncomfortable and
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: being physically capable of going there and doing that, It's
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: just it changed. It opens up a world to you.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: It's so to me, Like, you know, people are always like, hey,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: what can I buy? You know, can I buy a call?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Can I buy a decoy? Can I buy a camera?
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like, buy some freaking Brooks running shoes, man, get
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: a gym membership, because it is gonna change your life
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: in a way that no hunting probact product probably will.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: It's really, uh, it's it's a real eye opener when
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: you go through it. Absolutely, I mean that would that
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: would be you know, if someone wasn't doing that already,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: that would be really high at the top of the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: list of something I would recommend, not just you know,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: for obvious healthy lifestyle changes, but it does. It does
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: translate into your hunting and your decision making, and you
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: you almost want you know, I find myself wanting those
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: those tough hunts, like when I went to Nevada. You know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: we're you know, on the Ruby Mountains and we did
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: eighty miles and I don't know, nine days or something
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: like that, and uh, man, I loved every minute of it.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And it was hard and I was suffering, and it
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: was just like, yeah, like this is what I trained for,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: this is what I want. I want to know that
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I can do, you know, anything that the mountains asking me.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: And you know, when when you can get to that,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I guess you can get to that level. And there's
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: certainly guys that are way higher level than meet. But
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: when you get to that mindset, the white tail stuff
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: seems relatively easy, you know. And I know, I know
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: not everybody's there with uh, with their fitness, so it
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: is it's a it's an awesome change, you know, if
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you can do that. UM. I have full disclosure. UM.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: You know, once the hunting season comes, my workouts really
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: do suffer. UM. I would like to say that I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: keep it going five days a week all through hunting season,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't happen. Um. There's like a slow transition
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: of where I start hunting. I'm sorry, I'll start working
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: out less once the hunting season starts. But what I'll
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: do is I'll incorporate still my full body stuff, but
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: into a less amount of days. So instead of five
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: days a week, maybe I'm going two or three, but
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I'm still doing a lot of the same exercises. And
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: then you get into the meat of that hunting season
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: where it's just like it's prime time, you know what
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, and you're trying to spend as much time
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: as you can in the woods. And my I mean,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: my workouts pretty much go non existent for a month
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: a month and a half, and you know, I lose
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I lose ten fifteen pounds every year of muscle mass,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: and I gained fat. And I'm just I'm on the
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: road and I'm eating bad. I'm eating gas station case
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: he's trapping, you know. Yeah, you come out of the
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: hunting season, it's like, oh my gosh, like what have
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I done to myself? But um, you know, and then
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and then my cycle is I just kind of gradually
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: start getting back into the gym and that's where I'm
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: at right now, and I'm shot. I've already put on
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: eight pounds and feeling good, and it's just like it's
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: like this cycle that I do. Um, I gotta do
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: a better job of keeping it going throughout the hunting season.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: But as you know, like we've talked, my hunting time
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: is super limited. I mean I've I've had eleven sits
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: for white tail this year. Um, eleven. I mean, that's
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: that's pretty sad. Now I did go out with I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: didn't count those, but for white tail eleven sits. Um,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I've scouted a ton um that have kind of led
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: to some high quality sits out of those eleven. But
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: you know, it's one hunting season starts and I'm trying
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: to put in time and trying to figure out some
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: deer and trying to really hone in where I want
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: to spend some time. It's like something's got to give.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: And for me, you know, the gym time does does sacrifice,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it does take a take a hit there unfortunately.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: So I got to do a better job of balancing that. Well,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: There's only so much time in the day, you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, there just is. And that's interesting that you
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: say that about your time in the field this year,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: because I in total white tail hunting either all day
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: or a morning or evening sit. This year, I only
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I only got out there twelve days, and you know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: seven of those were filming, and so you know, people
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: are always like, oh, man, you're you're you had an
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: incredible season. I'm like, I did not have that. I
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: had a productive season as far if you know, like
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: if if body count matters, it was good. But as
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: far as just getting lots of time out there, uh,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you know, it just it doesn't happen that much, or
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen the way it probably appears that it does.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And so I'm kind of like you man, like when
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: when I do get out there, like I want, I
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: want to be into it every second that I have
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: because I know it's not going to be very much time.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: And I just I feel so much better when I
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: feel like I go into it in really good shape. Um.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you are you are you a
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: goal setter? Like with your workouts, with your hunting, do
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you do you start the year ago? You know what
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I want to get my dad lifts up to this,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and I want to get my cardio up to this
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: or you know it's one seventies or bust or you
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: just kind of go with the flow. No. Um, I
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say I'm a goal setter of nothing specific. I
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: want to be I want to be in, I want
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: my I want to peek my fitness level right before
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: hunting season. It seems that I've I've kind of been
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: in that routine for probably the last ten twelve years
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: where I kind of build and you know, I try
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: to peak cardio, peak fitness level right leading into the
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: hunting season. UM. So I mean, I guess that's I
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: guess that's a goal. UM. I don't like to have
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: like weight goals or anything like that. I work out
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: a lot different than I used to, UM, a lot different,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: a lot less, way more cardio. I'm thinking more about
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: my heart and lungs and flexibility and and tendon strength
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and and functional movements. You know, functional movements that keep
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: me flexible, mobile, UM stretches that keep me from getting tight,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: that eliminate back pain, you know things like that. UM.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: As far as hunting, UM, I don't set specific goals.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: My I my goal, one of my main goals has
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: always been too you know, always keep improving as a hunter.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I always want to keep getting better. I've I've said
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: that on a million podcasts. That is my goal. I
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I don't really care about inches. Don't get me wrong.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I want to chase the biggest buck that I have available.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I mean I did this year. UM. But it's I
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I would just want to keep improving. I want to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: keep experiencing new places, new challenges. UM. I want to
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: keep sharpening my skill. UM. So it's like it's it's
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: constant work with the bow, it's constant scouting. You know.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Going back to the limited time in the woods, I
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: could have hunted more. Um. You know, I could have
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: went out west and had more time in the white
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to woods. I could have scouted less and had more
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: tree time. I scouted. I was scouting three or four
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: times a week, you know, and maybe hunting one or two. UM.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So I was putting in time that led to my
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: success so that I had higher quality sits when I
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: did have time. So I just want to clarify that.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, I don't set I don't set
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: goals of inches. You know, I've never been blessed ever
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to hunt in an area that has high scoring deer.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I never have. I've never sought out those areas. UM.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I've never prioritized that nearly as much as just experiencing
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: new places. And and trying to put myself into situations
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: that I'm not that good at. Um. I talked before, Uh,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you know you've had him on your podcast, Jesse Coots. Um.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Jesse is a phenomenal early season hunter. And when I
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: met Jesse had only killed like three or four early
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: season bucks, and he had killed his target buck on
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the opening day of New York's both season like four
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: years in a row. And I was like, what how
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: does he do that? You know what I mean? Like,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I needed to learn from this guy. So I befriended him,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and now we're we're good friends. We talk often, and
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I just picked his brain and I learned, and I
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: was just you know, I had that that kind of
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: feeling that something was missing in my skill set that
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: that Jesse had, and I sought that out and I
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: kind of incorporated some of the things that he taught me,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and I put a lot more effort into being successful
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: in the early season. Um. And next thing, you know,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to starting to kill great bucks or early
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: season and and now it's a strength of mine. UM.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I feel the same way about you know, late season.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: It's just the time that I struggle with, you know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I never had really good late season spots. So I'm
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to myself into that situation a little more
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and different types of country and different types of habitat
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and terrain. You know that, I'm not that I don't
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: get to tackle too often, like I want that. I
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: hear about guys, you know, hunting big woods, you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: bigwood setting, and they're they're killing big box and you
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: hear them talk, You're like, Wow, you know I don't
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: have that. I don't have that yet, and I want it. Um,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I don't like, I'm thankful for those guys, and I'm
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I look up to those guys and I admire those guys.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: And when I see somebody that has skill that I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: don't possess, or at least, I don't feel like mine
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: is as as strong as it could be. That eats
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: at me. Um, that eats at me way more than
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: not shooting a huck. Um just the way, just the
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: way I'm wired. Um. So yeah, to answer your question,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: my goal is just to keep getting better, keep trying
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: new things, new species, new areas, different ways, different tactics,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: and uh, that just keeps my fire burning. It keeps
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: me excited about hunting. Um, and just motivated. So you
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you specifically plan out your fall in a way that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you know is going to challenge yourself, like your your
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: your travel. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to say that. Uh,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't go back to places
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: that I've learned well, um, I do. Um, It's usually
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you know, I usually build on it. You know. It's
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: not like I go back to the same tree and
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: just kill a good buck out of it every year.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I mean that that never happens. It's usually leads me
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: to a different piece of property or you know, a
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: different area of this piece of ground or or whatever.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I've you know, I've for a lot of
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: years there. Um. I was really focusing on that early
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: season and white tail stuff. You know. Also I was
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: going to states that opened up early before Michigan. And
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: then I started I started killing some great deer there
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: pretty consistently. And then it's not that I felt like
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I had it figured out, but I was like, Okay,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that satisfied that a little bit. I feel like I
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: got some skill there. Now I feel confident that I
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: could go places and do that, you know. And then
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I started focusing on some different terrain or late season,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and you know the last few, you know, last five
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: six years i've been I've been traveling um places like
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: kind of that late November December time frame, and I
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: started to kill some really good bucks out of state,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: and you know, it is something that I wasn't good at,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't have confidence in. So yeah, I'm always trying
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: to throw that kind of stuff in there and kind
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: of mix it in with things that I like, Like
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I'm really digging the spotting stock on the ground, Muley's whitetail,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: whatever it be, antelope, So I always try to throw
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: some of that in there. I really love the Western
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: stuff that just beats me to a pulp, Like I
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I want to come I want to come out of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a hunt and I want to feel like I was
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: run over by a truck. And I like that because
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't have confidence in that. I didn't I didn't
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: know that I could go live nine days in the
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: back country, you know, up in the Ruby Mountains, and
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I challenged myself to do that. And I didn't come
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: home with a buck. I came this close to a
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: world class meal dere full draw um, but I didn't
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: come back with a buck. But man, it felt good.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: It felt like I learned something. It felt like I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: did I did something, you know, I felt like I
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: got better at something. So yeah, I'm I'm always kind
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of throwing that those kind of hunts in and and
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: always the wheels are always turning, like what can I
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: do that's new? What can I do that? You know?
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: What's my weakness? What do I need to improve that?
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm talking to a lot of guys
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: too regularly. You know, a few guys. I'm sure we'll
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: come up in conversation, but but like I feel like
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: a true woodsman, you know, true woodsman. And when I
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: talked to them, you know, I'm learning stuff, you know
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm constantly learning stuff. And I I
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: love that. I love those guys that are still doing
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: it the old way and and you know they're sharpened,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: they're sharpen in the Indian and not relying on technology
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and all this other stuff. I heard that quote the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: other day, sharpened the Indian and uh, I just love that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I love that quote. So yeah, man, um, yeah, that's
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that's pretty much it. I try to throw a mix
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: of different things in, but that's that's pretty much where
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I'm at right now. Yeah, and it's this is uh
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: you said that this is how you're wired, and I
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: don't doubt this for a second, but I bet it's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: also to some extent, you know, when we were chatting
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: off air here just a little bit ago, you kind
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: of come to realize there's two ways to look at
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: this stuff. And the hunting industry does a really good
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: job of selling us on one style of white tail hunting,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: which is take away the white tails defenses. Somehow create
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a spot he's gonna want to go to to eat,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to drink, where the doors are gonna be, leave him
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: alone till he's old enough to kill him, you know,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: sit in a box blind, or sit in some way
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: where you kind of you negate his senses further, you know,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: use use all the technology to your advantage, and just
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: kind of overwhelmed those suckers. And then there's the other
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: path where you don't have that option. Either either it's
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: just not feasible or you choose not to have it,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: and you go, I'm gonna go hunt where these dear
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: You know, they're not baby sad, They're not conditioned to
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: go into a certain spot and feel safe. They're living
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: out there in a place they get hunted all the time.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: And the only way to really enjoy that and to
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: get to have success is for you to get better,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: not for you to dumb the deer down, because that's
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: not going to happen. And so there's these two kind
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: of paths and they get you know, we conflate this
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: all the time, and I don't want people to think
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that I'm shipping on that style of you know, plant
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: food plots and stuff like gonuts for doughnuts. I don't
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: care what people do. But what you're talking about is
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: your intentionally choosing to go route where your only option
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: is level up or you're gonna your time is gonna
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: suck because you you don't have the option to change
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: the deer to or force them to kind of alter
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: their behavior convince them that they're safe. You just gotta go.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I gotta get better. Yeah, you know, I mean, honestly,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I mean these these some of these out of state
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: trips when you're figure in gas and tag prices and
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: you know, scouting trips and and all this stuff. Um,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: you know it it adds up with money. I mean, honestly,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: I probably could. It doesn't seem like I could. But honestly,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I could probably cut back and you know, buy a
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: cool farm in Illinois or something and manage it and
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: shoot bigger deer than what I'm doing now. Or or
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: get a couple of leases, you know in Ohio, in
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Ohio and in Iowa and Kansas and just put all
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: my money into that and shoot higher scoring deer. I could.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I could probably do that. Um, but I don't know.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't what I'm doing now. UM. It's my
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: mindset and my goal is better. Um. We talked about
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: this a little bit, and I don't want to. I'm
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: not I'm not trying to crap on these guys, either,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: but like I hear sometimes I listened to the podcast, like,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I can admire any hunter that is at the top
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: of their niche you know what I mean, like of
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: their category, and some of these guys, I consider them
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: more deer managers than actual deer hunters. And I don't
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: mean that as a negative way. They are the best
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: of the best. Like I listened to their podcasts and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to pick up a negative information that
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I could use. And I hear things, you know, I
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: heard I heard one of the guy you know, one
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: guy was saying he had thirty two bucks over a
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: hundred fifty and I'm just like, holy crap, you know,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And this is a guy we consider a white tail expert,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: you know, a white tailed deer hunter expert. And I
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's in my opinion, I don't know
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: if that's the right label, you know, an expert deer manager,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: an expert dear grower. Like, if that's your goal, that's
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the guy to listen to. UM. You know. One of
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the other guys says that he's out there so much,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and he puts himself out there checking cameras and filling
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: feeders and so much. He said that the deer just
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: get used to me. And I'm just like, well, you
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: why is that? Why is that the goal? Why is
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the goal to make deer get used to you? Like?
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Is that? Isn't that taken away the difficulty of hunting,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: you know, the thing that we love so much, the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: challenge of it. And then, you know, another guy was
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: talking about UM one of his redneck blinds, I think,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and he said, when he's in it, the deer can't
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: smell me, you know, they cannot smell me. I'm bulletproof,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm just like I was talking to Kenyan about it,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, why is that the goal? You know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: why is that the goal to take away their number
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: one defense so that you can shoot him? So, I
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: don't know that. When I was hearing these things, it
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: just started my wheels turning. Um. I think it's very important.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's crucial that we keep, um, the woodsmanship
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: part of hunting alive. And there's a clear trend and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: path towards taking that away through technology, through deer farming,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: through deer managing, through locking up as much ground as
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you can and keeping everybody else out so that you
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: have the easiest hunting possible. But there's still there's still
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: some guys out there that that feel very strongly that
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: that's not the way, that's not the way it should be,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: that's not the way to keep the resource around long term. UM.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel I feel like it's a
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: conversation that needs to be talked about, and I feel
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: uh that I don't know. I I feel compelled to
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: talk about this and hopefully inspire some people to keep
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: that alive. There's there's some guys, and those are the
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: guys I talked to on a daily basis. Like I
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: have some some friends, some close friends that I don't
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: talk to on a daily basis about deer because we
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: don't align on that. And some of the guys I
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: talked to, I mean, we talked about we talked about
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: reading sign and we talked about all this, these different
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: types of terrain. And they're trying to learn from me,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: you know, from areas that I've been in that they
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: haven't been in, and I'm trying to learn from them
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: and the big woods or the hill country and these
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: little intricacies that I don't have the experience yet to
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: pull from. And I just we just we find it
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: fascinating to talk to each other. And we literally talk
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: every day, you know, while we're driving or whatever. And uh,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: you know, those are the guys I'm drawn to. I'm
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: drawn to the guys like you and Eddie Claypool and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: my friend Justin Wright, who is just an awesome woodsman. Um,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I'm drawing to guy listening to guys like you know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Bobby Worthington. Um, I'm drawn to guys like uh, you know, Nathan.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Nathan Killing is one that comes to mind. Um, I
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: came across his podcast and he's he's a big woods
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: guy and just you can tell he's just a woodsman.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Um Travis Murray. I listened to one of his podcasts.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: He's from the South. Like when you talk about when
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: you hear about these guys, you're not hearing food plots.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: You're not hearing about managing the deer getting him to
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: five years of age. You're not You're not hearing that stuff.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: You're hearing about the woodsmanship, the skill and the craft
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: of hunting and improving that too. A chief success, you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Zach Zack Farringball, you know he's another one. Uh Beaumartinic,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Both bowsy, young dude. But
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: you listen to him talk. Look at his videos. I
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: mean the guy is talking about breaking down mountain bucks
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and he's talking about, you know, all these different um
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: native food sources that are there that I have no
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: experience with. And I just I just watched that and
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, I eat it up, man, Like that's
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: a guy, like that's one of those guys that's going
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to keep it alive. Um. So, I don't know, I
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: think it's important, and I don't know, you feel strongly
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I know you feel the same way I do, And
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I think, what what I love about? You know, I mean,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of stuff going on right Like
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: people are super piste off about social media influencers in
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the hunting space and you know, the YouTube, the YouTube
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: kind of hunters and stuff like that, and I get
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I get the complaints, but I also love the fact
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: that you know, if you take if you take like
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: the deer manager route, where you're you're gonna take a
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: property and try to really cultivate some big bucks and
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: turn it into a mecca that's sort of ubiquitous across
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: the white tail space, right Like you could do that
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: in Louisiana, you could do that in Michigan, you could
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: do it in New York, and you know, it might
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: be a little bit different in each state, but the
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: blueprint is kind of the same. The path that's kind
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of the same. It's like, Okay, we know how to
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: hack the white tails that way, and we know how
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: to pull that off, and that can be like a
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: great option if that's what you want to do. But
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: what I love about like the current space we had
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: when you mentioned Bow and Zach and some of these
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: guys they're showing people the other ways to do this stuff.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I love that, Like I'm the same way, man. I think.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I think those those people are so inspirational and they
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: show you what can't be done. Like everybody says, oh,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: it's impossible to come to my state and kill a buck.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: It's impossible to kill a you know, a big one
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: on public land in Michigan. It's impossible to do this.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know, man, if it's impossible,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know what these guys are doing. Because they're
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: doing it. They're showing it. I talked to I talked
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: about you on every freaking podcast I do. I'm like,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: these people are out here proving that this stuff can
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: be done, and it's I think that's like so inspirational.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: When you're sitting there and you've got that kind of
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: localized bias going or you're like, hey, I want to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: travel out of state and I want to hunt here,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: but man, I don't know. I don't want to go hunt.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I heard there's only two percent of public land in Nebraska,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: or it's way over hunted in Missouri. I don't know
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: if I want to do it. And then you see
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: people show up in four or five six days, kill
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: a great buck and leave and you're like, Okay, well
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: that dude did it. Like it's it's totally possible. I
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: love that aspect of what's going on today. Yeah, yeah,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: I do too. And those guys are crucial and uh,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: you know, I know what you're referring to with the
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: uh you know, kind of the buzz with UM the
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: attack on like you know, social media hunters and YouTube
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: hunters and stuff. And I have some opinions about that too.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: There's certainly some negatives UM, you know, and some people
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: that appear to be doing it for in my opinion,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the wrong reasons. But there's also people out there, like
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: you mentioned Zach Bo some of these other guys that
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: are putting out content on YouTube and it's doing what
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: we're it's doing what exactly what we're talking about is
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: keeping that keeping that woodsmanship alive, keeping that mentality of um,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I want to get better and I want to learn.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Like like you could listen to Zach talk all day. Man,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: he's just like, man, you know, he's just like I
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: just want to be able to do that. I want
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: to figure that out. Or you know, he's like, you know,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not good at that or I want to do this,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: and it's just like, yeah, that's that's the mentality right there, man.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: He just that feeling of you can go anywhere, you know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: you can go anywhere that has white tail and be
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: effective and and that's that is what I strive to have.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: And I certainly have that feeling that I can go
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: and be effective in a lot of areas. But I
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: don't have that feeling everywhere. Um, you know, there are
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: there are some guys, Um you know, there's some guys
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: that I hear of that that taught you know, they're
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: they're from different areas in the South or the far
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: East or whatever. And it's just like, I don't have
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: any experience there. I don't I don't think I can
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: go there and kill a buck in four days like
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I can in some of these other states that I've
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: had some experience and some confidence, And I mean maybe
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: it might happen. You know, you you you have a
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: certain you you develop a certain level of hunting instinct
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and decision making and um, you know the ability to
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: to perform you know, under pressure when that you know,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: the heat of the moment happens. But you know, I
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: got a lot to learn. I got a lot to learn, um,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm eager to learn um. Those I listened to
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of like Southern stuff. Um. Ironically, like I
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I don't even have any plans yet to go hunting
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the South. I've haunted to South is Tennessee, so I
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: guess it's down there a little ways. But like you know,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: some of those guys, man, they got it tough and
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: they get it done, and and I hear them talking,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, you know, that's that's some next level
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: stuff for that type of ureen. Now, they might come
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: up here in the open country of flat land Ohio
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and just be lost, you know, but like, you know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: that's where I feel real comfortable. Or or the broken
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: upland of river bottoms and some some rolling hills, like
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of my bread and butter, bread
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: and butter, you know, I feel I feel comfortable there. Um.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's just that mindset of of
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: growing and and learning, and I feel like I feel
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: like if you get to that point where you're you
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: close that off and you become this expert. I hated it,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I hate when people call me an expert.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I hate it, um, I just hate it, and I
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: hate it when people call themselves an expert to um.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: But it's it's just like you're it's like you're closing
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: your mind off. It's like, Okay, I'm the expert. Like
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I got all the answers. I know what I can do.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I can answer this question about this and this and this.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that you can never achieve that. Really,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: there's there's too many types of situations, to varying degrees
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: of pressure, too much different type of terrain and and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: uh you know weather and um, you know temperature differences
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and different different parts of the country that you know,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you can master at all, um,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: But I don't know. That's that's what motivates me, is
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: just constantly learning. You know. If I'm learning, then I'm
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling good, I'm feeling happy, I'm feeling fulfilled with hunting.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And if I'm not, if I'm just you know, I
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: get in the groove and yeah, I'll probably kill it.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: You know, three or four year old buck off this
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: piece of property this year. You know I got three
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: or four of them. You know I'm gonna get one
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: of them. I don't know, man, I just that takes
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: away a lot of the excitement for me, you know, personally,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: And I know some guys just love that, not taking
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: it away. But I do feel like I do feel
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: like I personally do this right or wrong. I put
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: hunters and categories, and I'm not saying one is better
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: than the other, but I relate to one much more
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: than the other. Um. You know, I don't think I'll
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: ever relate well to like the deer manager and you know,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: growing big Bucks and and naming the big books, and
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's like every year those guys
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: shoot the buck there after every single year, you know
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like I don't know. It's just
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: like I don't know. It's like I don't want that.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I want to fail, man. I want to I want
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: to be able to shoot. I want to have to
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: shoot my number two sometimes. You know, well, I mean
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: it's just different strokes, man. And you know one of
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: the things that you said earlier that I think, you know,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's worth acknowledging that. You know, people go
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: out there for different reasons. Like a lot of people
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: they don't want to challenge themselves hunting. They want to
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: go have fun and they don't want to work that hard,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: and that's cool, like do whatever. But what you mentioned
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: about big woods and now talking about down south, which
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: is kind of just like big woods two point oh.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I mean when you're when you're really talking about like
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: difficulty level and people who kind of just by default
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: of their situation have to become woodsman, like have to
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: develop real woodsmanship big woods man when you take out
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: like a lot of destination food sources and and broken
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: tracts of timber where there's you know, high likelihood the
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: deer lived there, because that's the only cover you get
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: into a different world. And you know, some people have
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: no desire to go experience that, and some people they
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: look at that and go, I have never killed a
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: big buck there, and I got to figure that out.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: And I've you know, I have two things. I've talked
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: about this a million times. You know, I'm obsessed with
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: northern Wisconsin because it kicks my ass so much. It's
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: set me. When I started hunting over there, I was
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: doing pretty well in other places, like I felt really
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: good about certain places I was hunting, and there I
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: felt like I was starting at twelve years old again
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, man, I'd be so happy if a
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: forky walk down the trail right now, because I'm getting
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: freaking smoked here. And eventually, you know, you kill some
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: deer and you move up and move up, and I'm
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: at the stage where I can find the big ones
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: and I can see the big ones, but I have
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: yet to freaking shoot one, and it drives me nuts,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: but I love it, like it keeps me coming back
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: because I know when I go over there, like there's
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: it's it's almost a guarantee I'm going to fail in
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: regards to filling a tag, Like it's just almost guarantee.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And there there's another environment that I keep looking at.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: You know, you know that I love pheasant hunting and
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I love training dogs, and I'm obsessed with late season roosters,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: like it's one of my favorite things to do. So
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: I spend a pile of time in the cat tails
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: in December and January in different states, and I keep
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: jumping great big bucks out of the cat tails, and
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I keep talking about this and I'm like, I gotta
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: go figure that out, and it's gonna be like a
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: for me. It's gonna be like a poor man's version
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: of going to Kansas or something, because it's going to
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: be more of a kind of a spot stocky, glassy
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: type of you know, you know, there's not very many
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: trees in any one of these places that you're at,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: but that's why they're in the cattails partially. But that environment,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: it's it's got the deer. It's just gonna be insanely
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: challenging as far as setups and approach and playing the wind.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: But I just I love that there's like options like
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: that out there for public land hunters, Like anybody could
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: go into these places where we're shooting roosters and be
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: around you know, bucks, like beyond the same property as them.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: And I just I think that that's like incredible, Like
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's incredible that we have that option out
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: there in so many places. Mm hmm. You know, uh,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: your your story about Wisconsin, that just says a lot
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: about you. I mean it says that you know, you
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: and I are aligned a lot. You know. I'm sure
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: you go to your old favorites sometimes and you know
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: where you've had some success before because you always want
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: to build on that. You know, you can always learn
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: more about an area and get better, and that's that's
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: part of you know, improving as a hunter as well. Um.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: But the fact that you keep going back and just
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: getting your your ass kicked, Uh, you know that just
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: shows right there. Man. It's like you're you're addicted to
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: the challenge. You're addicted to learning. It's like you're not
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: gonna quit until you see what you're setting out to do,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: which is kill a good buck in northern Wisconsin. So yeah, man,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I mean that's what we need. That we need. We
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: need more of that, We need more of that that
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: mindset I think. Um, you know, I see like it
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: seems like this past two or three years, Um, there's
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: been such this huge shift in technology. I mean technology
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: has always been improving, right, Um, But like man, the
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: last two or three years, you know, we got we
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: got across bow that just came out that shoots five second,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: it shoots, it shoots three inch groups at a hundred
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: and thirty yards. So now that gun is outperforming the
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: old smooth bore shotguns. It's performing, oh yeah, performing equal
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: to a rifle barrel slug um, you know, And and
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: guys are buying them up like crazy. You know what
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I just do not like the way
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: that's going. It's you know, I feel like again what
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, So this guys are looking for
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: easier ways to achieved success, you know, the cell camera thing.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: You know. I'm still I'm still on the fence of
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: all that. Um, I don't know that they should be legal.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not willing to say that out right yet,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: but like, how many guys do you know that run?
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: A dozen of them? Twenty of them and all they
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: do is just take that real time information and based
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: all their decisions on that. I mean, there's there's some
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: really good hunters that are you know, famous hunters that are, um,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: that's what they're doing, and they the bucks that they
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: killed this year are a direct result of real time photo.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: They decided to go to that spot at that day
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: and then they killed that book, you know what I mean. Like,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know where do we draw the line of
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: fair chase. That's I'm not trying to tell anybody what
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: that line is, but it's you should be thinking about that.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: You should be thinking about that and draw your own line.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: You know. Eventually, it feels like because we're we're already
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: seeing it. We're already seeing it out west because guys
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: are killing way more efficiently now with caryl cameras, way
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: more efficiently, with cell cameras, way more efficiently with you know,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: range finding sites and rifles that shoot over a thousand yards,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: and it's decreasing the resource to the point that it's
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: decreasing opportunity for the everyday hunter. Okay, it's already happening
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: out there. It's happening here too. We're doing the same
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: thing here. We're not seeing it quite as fast out
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: there because there's a ton of white tail, But eventually
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna become so efficient at you know, essentially,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: we're what are we doing. We're conducting surveillance and then assassinating,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. We're not hunting anything down
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: We're conducting surveillance from our home, from our couch with
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: our phone, and then we're going in when we know
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: they're there, and we're shooting them and and I don't know, man,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: it's just it feels yucky, it feels dirty. It certainly
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: isn't the way I think things should be going. Um,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I don't want to. I
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: don't want to crap on people that are doing that.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like, this is why
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: this conversation needs to happen, and we need to keep
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: that mentality of being a woodsman and and and keeping
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: things somewhat traditional um alive, you know. And I'm a
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: hypocrite man. I'm using a com pombo um, I'm using
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: arrange fine um, using trail cameras. You know, I'm getting
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: information too. I might not be getting real time information,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: but I'm getting information. I'm focusing where I get those
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: big buck pictures. So hey, I'm guilty. You know, I'm guilty,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about it. And uh, you know I
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: think that's important. Well, I do too, and I you know,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I'm I get I'm torn on this stuff because I
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: don't like being told what to do, you know. But
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: at the same time, I look at you know, the
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: cell cell cameras and and some of the things that
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: are going on, and I go, how does this look
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to the non hunting public, because I'm concerned about that, Like,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: you know, it's the same the same issue with baiting, right,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Like people get super fired up about baiting, and I
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: look at that and I go, Okay, how does this
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: look to the non hunters, because they're going to decide
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: our fate. That's where I get nervous. You know, like personally,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: if somebody wants to use a cell camera, I really
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: don't care. Like I own some, I don't think they
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: helped me out of a bunch. I don't use them
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: for most of my hunts. But I'm kind of like, whatever,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I think we'll go retro on some of
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: that stuff and eventually it'll get I don't I don't
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: think some cell camera's gonna be allowed in in season
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: in a lot of states. I think that's coming eventually,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: but you know, we're not there yet. But I just
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I look at this and I go, man, you know,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: we sit in a you know, like a manufactured box
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: over you know, food we planted for the deer with
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: cell cameras, and you know, it's like I get a
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: little a little wiggy about it because I know if
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I had to explain that to a non hunter who
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: was just sort of ambivalent, right like, I don't care
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: if you hunted, you know, as long as you eat them,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I don't give a ship. But then all of a sudden,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, this is how I do it, Like,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: here's all the advantages I'm giving myself. Now, I worry
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: about where that takes us, you know, and people. We
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: we talk about this a lot, right like with with
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: social media and uh, you know, showing some of the
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: things we probably shouldn't be showing spine shots or or
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: you know, celebrating gut shots or whatever. You know, Like
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: there's you name it, there's things out there, and I
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: don't I don't know if there's an option for us
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: to police ourselves on this stuff. I wish, I wish
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: it felt feasible because I think we should. But I
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: think somebody else is gonna end up policing us on
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: some of this stuff, and it's it's probably not gonna
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: work out very well for us. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: you're right. I mean there's there's a lot out there
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: that a lot out there on you know, for the
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: world to see that certainly doesn't look great, you know,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: to to the people that are on the outside looking
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: in that that are non hunters. Um, I don't know.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I mean I think I've heard conversations about it, you know, recently,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: especially with the you know, the recent I'm sure you're
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: aware of that. You know, the article that came out
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: that creates created that big stir about social media. You know,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: there's conversation sans um being made and I think podcasts
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: like this conversations are just making people more aware. So
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: hopefully we start doing a better job of that. Um.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: You know, we always need to think of that. We
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: always need to think about how, you know, how things
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: are portrayed too, you know, people outside of hunting, and
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of social media is you're worrying
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: about how it's portrayed to people in honey, you know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: and not always portraying things and the way they actually
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: happened and you know, how the animals taken and where
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: it was taken and so on and so forth. So
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I I I'm not a prolific poster,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: so you know, I don't. But when I do post things,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I try to share my story. I try to always
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: talk about the hunt a little bit so that you know,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: those guys out there that are maybe looking to me,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: you know, looking at me to to to learn a
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: little bit from. I always try to post a little
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: it about that out there and uh, you know, try
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: to keep it you know, respectful and and not not
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: about me, Like I don't you know, I don't want
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: it to be about me. You know, I wanted to
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: be about the hunt, the decision making it took. Um,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: you know the shot that I made, you know that
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: was difficult. Uh. The animal what he did, what he
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: did that was unique to you know, compared to some
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: of the other animals I hunted. Like I I try
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: to talk about some of that stuff, you know in
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: my post. So I don't know, I try to be
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: mindful of it. Um, I'm sure we all can do better. Um,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: but it's good. It's good we're talking about it. Well. Yeah,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: and you know the social media thing, it's like people
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: act surprised that it's mostly bullshit and there's a lot
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: of people out there trying to be famous and get attention.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, we've this is this is just the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: new wave. And like, I don't want this to sound
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: worse than it is, but when I see these arguments,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, we've had TV hunters since we've had
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: outdoor to like, this is just the new wave, it's
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: the new medium. We had it. I'm sure, you know,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: pre Sportsman channeling Outdoor Channel when magazines were burning really,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: really hot. I mean I heard stories about it, like
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: when I got into the industry that editors and writers
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: were like the superstars of the hunting industry. And I'm
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: sure some of them were self serving assholes who did
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: not portray us very well. And then we got TV
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: and there was an there was an opportunity to buy
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: your way into you know, buy your air time, you
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: can put your show on there. We still do that,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Like this stuff's always existed, and I am glad that
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: these conversations are are happening, Like I'm glad the general
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: hunting population is more aware of this and they're questioning,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: like what are the motives, like who should we be supporting.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: I love that stuff because I think I think we
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: do kind of got to cleanse ourselves a little bit.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Like I think like people on my side have to
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: be kept in check, and like we have to be
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: aware like what's the audience think? And at the same time,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I think the audience needs to understand like what's going
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: into some of this stuff, you know, like you always
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: here the and I swore I wouldn't get into this
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to get fired, But let's do it. Anyway. Um,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: you always hear the complaint of like this influencer did this,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: or he's such a whole or she is just pushing
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: these products. And I sit here and I go this,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, they're culpable. But you have no idea
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: the deliverables that are in those contracts and coming from
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: these manufacturers and these media companies in between these pr companies.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: This stuff's muddy. There's a lot of people with their
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: hands in the cookie jar. There's one target that's your
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: quote unquote influencer, that's your target, but you don't know
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: who's behind the scenes making this stuff happening. And I
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: promise you, if you buy a bow, or you buy
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: a camera, or you buy a release, or you buy
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: a grunt tube or whatever, you're supporting companies that are
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: pushing this social media thing hard and they're building in
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: deliverables to make these people turn into bigger horrors. And
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: you know, hey, they don't have to do it, like
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: I get it. Like they could walk away and they
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: could go be plumbers, they could go do something else,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: but that's their job, and that's the situation they get into.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: And it's a creep thing. Like nobody gets in there,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, I want to just be a blatant,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: freaking used cars salesman, right, but it over time, we're
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: gonna ask more and more of you for less money
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: or to maintain this style of living. And so it's
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: it's a muddy it's a difficult topic. And a lot
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: of these these a lot of the things that are
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: kind of behind the scenes really don't make it into
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: the general conversation. And that's like, no matter how much
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I agree with some of these loud voices, I'm like,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: you don't really know the scope of this problem, like
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: how deep it really runs? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you know,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to I'm not trying to you know,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: crap on social media. I mean, we there's certainly a
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: lot of positives that come from it, you know what
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I mean. We're reaching we're reaching a lot of non
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: hunters through social media, you know, some of these some
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: of the biggest voices out there certainly are and gaining
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: getting more people involved, which you know is a good thing,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: you know. Um, so you know, and it's for me,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: like I always think, like, you know, I don't know
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: about you, but like like before the internet, you know,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: and I don't know if you're from Minnesota, right, Yeah,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: they have like a like a deer and turkey show
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: like once a year, you know. Okay, so Michigan has
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: when they call the Michigan Deer and Turkey Spectacular or
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: something at least that was the old name, you know.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And we'd go and it was like everybody is so
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: pumped to go, and they had this wall full of
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: bucks that were killed that year, and everybody's doing it
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: on and everybody has their little photo album, you know,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: off their deer that they got this year, like oh man,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I got this dough and I got this six point,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: look at this ten point and you know, the the
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: the pride you know of being successful and working hard
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: at something and wanting to share that. I think that's
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: so important. Like, I think that is a very important thing.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: It's a very natural thing. I don't think anyone needs
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: to feel guilty about doing that, like I think it
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: we need to do that. You know, that's happened since
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: like the beginning of time, you know, sharing the hunt
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: and sharing photos and so you know, it certainly gives
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: us a great opportunity to do that. And that's the
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: way I look at it. But when I use you know,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: social media. Um, but yeah, they you know, there's a
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: lot out there that's it's it's not about that, it's
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: about you know, look at me and you know I'm
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: going on tent outfitted hunts a year and I you know,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: whack another big one. And there's a lot of self
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: promoting and that's you know, that's kind of the side
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: that I think people are starting to take a look
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: at and and not really love that side as much.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: So you know, I don't know, I don't I don't
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: want to dig too far into it. But you know,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I have my I have my opinions, and you know,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: other people have theirs, and I don't you know, necessarily
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: think minor the right way. It's just mine, you know.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: I just I just think we're gonna move on here
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: in a second. I just think it's it's really easy
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: to sort of fall in love with an idea around this,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Like if you if you could give me a magic
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: wand and I could wave it in social media, be
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: gone forever. I would do that in a heartbeat. But
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it to save hunting. I would do
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: it because I do not think it's good for us
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: like just generally I think it's a net loss. But
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: that's not the world we live in. Like, that's nobody's
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: haying to me that one that ship is not gonna happen.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: So we have to operate under the world. Okay, Like,
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: what do we do now that we know this is
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: here and this is a big part of people's business
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: model and you know, all these companies are using this
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: like this, how do we go from here knowing that
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: it's not just going to go away and knowing that
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: people aren't gonna stop, and it's not an easy thing
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: to fix, uh, you know. And and the other thing too,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: like that you mentioned. You know, I kind of look
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: at that and I go, man, I don't know if
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: you if you work hard and you kill a big
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: buck and you put a photo up, I'm like, I
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: kind of think you should be proud of that, you
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, I don't necessarily think we
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: should be taking pictures of every uh every time you know,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: we benched to five and we want to show off
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: a couple of plates on there or whatever. You know, Like,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think we need to be doing that.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: But if you do something, you know that you're proud
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: of I don't know, man, like we like you said,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: you know, when we used to walk into the archery
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: shop when I was twelve years old, there was all
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: kinds of pictures tacked up there that people printed out
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: of animals they were and you know, you weren't like,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: oh this guy's an asshole. You know, you'd be like,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: oh my god, this dude killed a great buck, you know.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, so it's a different world now, and
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: I don't really know where to go with it, and
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: I I love some small parts of it, like I
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: love the inspiration part, and like you people can say
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: like that doesn't exist, but that's bullshit. Man, I know
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: that you you experienced this. I'm sure you do. Where
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I've had so many people where if I've like posted
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: a buck I killed on public land or did an
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: article on it or talked about it on a podcast,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: I've had people be like I cannot believe that you
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: did that, Like I can't believe you went out and
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: killed one here, like that's amazing to me. And I'm like,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I don't, like, I don't, I don't know what to
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: tell you. Like they're out there, go do it, and
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you hear from people who are like I
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: went on my first trip and it was awesome. I
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: killed or I didn't kill, or I got close or
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: even a turkey hunt or something, And man, I think
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: that's such a positive, Like I think, I think that
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: there's so much good that comes out of an inspiring
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: people to go try this thing. That's such a like
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: a huge part of your life in my life. Yeah, yeah, no,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: that's it's awesome. And I do I get a I
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: get a lot of you know, obviously for being on
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: you know, your podcast and Kenyan's and you know, a
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: lot of people have come to know who I am, UM,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's a it's a strange feeling for sure. Um,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of messages, a lot of questions
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: and stuff. And you know, it's cool because I'm happy
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: to help people, UM, and I might not have all
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: the answers, but I'm certainly happy to give them a
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: bit of time because I was that, you know, I
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: was that person at one point that was just asking
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of questions and being annoying and and and
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: trying to you know, trying to email John Eberhart and
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: trying to um, you know, figure out these guys that
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: were in the magazines, like Bobby Worthington and like, you know,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: trying to find his email so I can ask him
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: some questions and stuff like. So I think it's important
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: to have, you know, to to do that. You know,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you're in that position and
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: and like you are, and like I am, at least
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: you know, to a point where you know, guys are
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: kind of looking at you and and and want to
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: maybe learn some stuff from you. It's I I'm I'm happy,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: and I'm honored to to give some of that information
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: that I've that I've learned and some of my experiences
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: away and uh, and just try to do you just
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: try to kind of feed that in the direction that
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: I really feel strongly that you know, hunting should go,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And that's that's kind of
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: what I do. And if I get asked questions that
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: are just kind of you know, in a different the
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: whole whole realm of hunting, like I just I say,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: I can't, you know, I can't speak on that. I don't.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I don't really know. So it's cool, you know, it's
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a weird feeling. But it's cool. Um,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's neat to be able to interact with
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: people and talk about that stuff and you feel like
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: you're helping people. And and I'm still doing that. I'm
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: still asking other people questions and and trying to learn
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: as much as I can from from other guys that are,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: you know, more experienced than me. So it's a good
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: thing and that that's that's one of the positives of
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: social media for sure. Yeah. Um, well, it's just just
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: the new media of podcasts and everything. Um, if anybody's
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: listening to you talk about that and you talking about
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: reaching out to people, and they're like, I don't know
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: if Andy really does that. I I can't here if
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: I said this on this podcast or where I what
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I was talking on. But when I killed that buck
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: in Iowa last year, you texted me several times about
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: that buck, asking me questions about like the set up
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: I killed him in, And at one point I was like,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: I think Andy May's thought about this buck more than
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I have. I'm like, I think this guy is more
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: invested in this deer. And you were you were trying
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: to get to the root of where it was and
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: not not where it was, but like what what what?
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: What did the kill encompass? Like how how did that
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: come together? And it was really interesting to me because
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: you were asking me stuff that I like kind of
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: really didn't even think about. I was like, you know,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: I went in there and I had found this concentration
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: and jumped the deer and set up and he came
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: back through. But it got me thinking about it on
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: a different level. And that's that is one of the
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: cool things about you know, today's world, Like you can
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: you can really curate content around what you're interested in
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: or what you think you might be interested in, and
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: so often, you know, like on the topic of track
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: laying out of state to hunt white tails, there's there's
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: so many different ways to go about that. You know,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: you could hire an outfitter and guide do that type
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: of service. You could lease a place, you could tap
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: your network, you could go hunt public land like we do.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: And then now you can find people not only who
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: are out there doing that and showing you to kind
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: of sign their scouting and the kind of train features
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: are looking for, but you can also watch dudes like
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Zach Farenbout go out there and have a freaking blast
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: doing it and encountering big bucks, and I think I
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: think that kind of like inspiration get your ass off
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: the couch type of thing is probably the most important
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: part about all of this. Now, if you're sitting there
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: at home and you're like, I've never traveled to hunt
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: white tails, and I kind of want to, like, if
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: for no other reason, just look at how how much
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: fun some of these people are having going out and
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: doing this and just go freaking do it. Oh yeah,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: I mean absolutely that's a that If I would have
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: just stayed in Michigan and just you know, had my
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: whole bow hunting you know, career, if that's what you
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: want to call it in Michigan, man, um, I certainly
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: would have. You know, I certainly would have loved it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's a it's a grind. Here it
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: could be extremely frustrating. But once I started traveling, I realized, like, man,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: there is so much more to this hunting thing. And
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: I was. I was successful fairly early on here in Michigan,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: and I kind of, you know, people, people caught it,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: started catching on that I was killing some big bucks
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: here in Mission because it just doesn't happen that consistently. Um,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: and you know you're young, you know, you're in your
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: early twenties and people are like, oh man, you you
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: killed a big buck, like you're a good hunter and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: all this stuff. And you know, I'd be down at
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: the Archery League and you know, my pictures are up there,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: putting my pictures up on the wall and stuff, and
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you think, all right, I'm a big shot.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I was young. I was stupid. I thought
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: like him, you know, nobody else that I knew of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: besides John really was even hurt was killing big bucks
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: in Michigan. It's like I felt pretty good. I felt
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: like I was you know, I felt like I knew something.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: And then it's like you start traveling out of state,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: You're like, holy crap, what's what's this stuff? Like what
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: are these giant hills? And where is the cornfield? And
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: where is the you know, the bean fields and all
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: this stuff, and it's like, you know, it was just
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: it just it took my enjoyment of hunting and I
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: it just opened, uh opened up that mindset of holy crap,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: I got a lot to learn, and I'm gonna I
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: want to learn it. And now it's like I take
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: my I take my Michigan hunting. I take it as
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: a personal challenge every year. It's always the hardest tag
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: for me to fill. It's always the most grind, it's
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: always the most frustrating. It's always the hardest. Like this year,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't have I had so many cameras out and
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a single buck over And it's like cheese,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: you know, like so tough. But I take it as
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: a personal challenge every year, like I want to be
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: successful in Michigan. But man, truth be told, I just
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: of that adventure of trying things new, going to new places,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: going to places where you don't you don't know what
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get into, what type of train you're gonna see,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and what type of situation and find yourself in. And man, yeah,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: I can't recommend that enough for people, just to kind
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: of keep that fire lit and um, yeah, I don't
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: know that. That's kind of that's become my niche, you know,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: like a traveling hunter. I certainly try to get it
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: done in my home state. But man, I look forward
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: every year the most just to getting out of here
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: and experience the new things. Yeah, I'm the same way.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I I like hunting in Minnesota, but I
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: love head out on the road and just and I'm
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: it's it's neat. You know, You've You've mentioned this a
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: couple of times. To me, what's neat is I've I've
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: hunted so many different chunks of public land across a
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: bunch of different states, and I try to hunt someplace
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: new every year, just just be cause you know, I
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: love that part. But you also hit some of those
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: those places or some of those regions or some of
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: those properties where you're like, I just want to go
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: back there and be there, even if the hunting is
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: gonna be really tough, Like western North Dakota is like
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: that for me. I just I can't move on from there.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I just I love camping there. I love to smell
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: a sage. I love being around elk and antelope and
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: meal deer while I'm hunting white tails, and I just
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I love the environment of the whole thing. And I
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: just like, I feel so lucky getting to have that
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: and knowing like every year and you know, at least
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: until they change the tag situation, like I can buy
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: that white tail tag and I can go there and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: be in that environment, and some years, you know, you
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: kill a great bucks, some years you don't. But it's
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: always like a place where I just go, this is
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: always worth my time, Like I never have a bad
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: trip here, like it's always fun. And then you go
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: to some other places and you're like, this could be
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: the next western North Dakota for me, like I don't know,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: or I could go there and it's like, uh, for
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, this kind of hunting didn't do it for me,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: or there was more people than I like or something.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, well it still wasn't a bad trip,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: but I'm not coming back here. I'm gonna find another one.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna find a new place. And I think you know,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: when we talk about like traveling for white tails, the
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: message that I just like I wish people really really
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: understood is there are so many opportunities out there, like
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: it's not and you know, we talk a lot about
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Iowa and Kansas and some of the big buck states,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: but doesn't have to be that like that. The opportunities
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: to go have a fun hunt are everywhere, Like you
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: just you just gotta go, like you gotta figure out,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: like what am I gonna do? And I'm gonna take
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: one this year. I'm just gonna go. Maybe I'll go
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: scout in Turkey season maybe whatever, but just go do
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: one and see what it's all about. And you know,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: you know how it is, like the people who usually
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: try that, they don't go. It's not a one and
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: done deal. Like you see that in the elk hunting world.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: You see people who are like, oh I love to
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: go elk hunting. They go one time, they're like screw this,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: like I'm done white tail, like passionate white tail hunters
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: when across those state lines for that first time and
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: they've got their tent and a buddy, you know, right
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: in the passenger seat, they're going again. Because it's a
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: freaking awesome experience. Oh yeah, I've fallen into. You know.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: It's what started as a one out of state trip,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: you know, quickly became too and then it was three
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: and then you know, next thing, you know, I'm trying
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: to get four or five in and it's like I'm sandwiching,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm reducing the days per hunt down till
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: two so I can fit more states. And I mean
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: that's how much I enjoy it. Like I'm I'm literally
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: condensing the time away to two or three or four days,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, obviously my might chance of successes go
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: way down. But I value like hitting all those those
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: new areas so much it's it's worth it to me.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: But I actually gotta I gotta start backtracking and going
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: the opposite way a little bit because I've I've been
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: trying to do you know, a little too much with
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: two little time. Um. But yeah, man, amen on anything
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: you said like, it's it's awesome. Um, it's something out
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: every year every year, multiple trips, new areas, some of
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: my favorite areas, kind of mix it in and uh,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: that's just that's just the way I do it. Do
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: you find with your travel schedule because one of the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: things that blew my mind when I really started hitting
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: the public land hard and traveling three, four or five
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: six states a year, it's just it. I had so
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: many moments where I was like, this thing I thought
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: about white tails or white tail hunting wasn't true. This
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: thing that I believed is not true. And you see this,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: you know, you see this with moon phase, weather conditions,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: hunting pressure, you know, the caliber of deer here, the
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: quantity of deer there. You see this with so many
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: different aspects of white tail hunting. And when I started
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: traveling more and I was like, well, that's b US,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: that's b S, that's b S. Like I just realized
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: that we we believe a lot of stuff that's just
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: not true. And when you go hunt in a place
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: out of state and you're like, I got four days
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: to get this done or five days, and it might
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: not be the ideal rot time, it might be mid
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: October something like that, and you get out there you
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: realize like, man, there's there's deer out here. They're moving,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: they're laying down sign they're giving me my chance. Now
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: I just gotta put in my time. Then you start
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: to have great hunts when you're not supposed to and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: where you're not supposed to, and you go it's like
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: it's it's like a door opens for you and you
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: just realize that I can go anywhere probably and have
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: a pretty decent hunt. Yeah. I think I think the
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: main thing to me that was, you know, and I
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: realized this very quickly, probably my first out of state trip.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like you hear you read in the magazines,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: you know, you hear this this expert talking about this
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: and this is what dear do and you know, blah
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: blah blah, and they kind of lay it out there.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: And what I quickly realized this is like, man, deer
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: are very different in different areas, different states, Um, they
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: behave very different um. You know. I feel like, I mean,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: some of the fundamental information out there always rings true,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: you know, bed to feed that sort of thing, right,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: you know whatever. But like you mentioned as far as like, um,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: what they tolerate, how far they move, um, you know
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: during certain times a year vary so differently. Um, you know,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: from state to state and even from you know, sometimes
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: property to property. Like what they eat, you know, what
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: they feed on. You know, you start going out of
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: state and they start eating this stuff and you have
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: no idea what it is. You know, I'm just like
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: I don't I'm not sure what it is, but they're
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: eating it. Um, you know, so is it? For me,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: that was probably the biggest eye opening thing. Like a
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: lot of the a lot of what I read sounded
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: so concrete, like this is what dear dow and this
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: is what mature bucks do and blah blahla, and it
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: was just like and everywhere I go, it's a it's
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: a little different. You know. I founded states where I've
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: seen deer literally walk like, you know, three quarters of
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: a mile from bed to feed, you know what I mean,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: like a long long ways and you know in Michigan,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: I can't sometimes I can't get a deer to do
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: you know, seventy five yards from his you know, from
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: his bed before dark. Um, you know what I mean.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: So it's it's just it's so different. And that's what
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: makes it so cool and so interesting is just you
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: get thrown into a new situation. Things are happening different,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Like you didn't you know, you didn't expect you know,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: you all of a sudden, you go out of state,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: you can start calling deer in or you know, you're
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: in a situation where you can maybe do throw up
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: a decoy, or you can you know, do a little
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: spot in stalk. It's just it's just all different. Um.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: You're constantly learning, um, new situations, new scenarios, and I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: don't know, man, I just I just eat it up.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: Well that's I talked to Casey about that because he's
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: obsessed with like hunting Kansas, where you can you know,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: you've got a legitimate chance of bed and one down
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: and crawling up him, and we just kind of got
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: on the topic of you know, if you if you
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: live in you know, east of the Mississippi, the odds
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: of watching lots of deer like or let me say this,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: the odds of watching lots of mature bucks bed down
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: and see what they do throughout the day is really low.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Like you might go a decade and not see a
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: dear bed down, let alone a mature buck. And when
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: you get to some of these western states or some
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: of these more open states, you actually get to watch
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: that dear behavior that you're only just filling in the
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: blanks with at home because you don't get to see it,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: and you get to see how they react, you know
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: he was talking about in like high wind, and how
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: they'll stand up and look around. Sometimes they don't go anywhere.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: They're just like I'm just gonna check out and make
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: sure no coyotes or anything got too close to me.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: And you get to observe this buck behavior in a
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: way that's just you're only gonna get it in certain situations.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: But as a hunter, watching one thing like that happen
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: one morning, where you watch a buck just do his
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: thing for forty five minutes or an hour, You've you've
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: leveled up that's in some way from that encounter so much.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: And you know, like that's that's something like it's so
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: incredible that that opportunity is out there. Like if you
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: if you're a big woods hunter somewhere, you can go
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: hunt one of these states. Some of them are over
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: the counter, you know, some of them you got to apply,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: but you could get yourself in a situation where you
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: could watch more mature bucks do their thing. It might
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: be through a spot or a half a mile or
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: a mile away, but you're still in person observing these
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: dear do these things. That's incredible to witness and you're
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: not getting that at home. Yeah, it's funny you bring
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: that up. My buddy justin right, phenomenal hunter maybe you know,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: probably one of the best that I that I know of,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: in my opinion. We were just talking yesterday and uh,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: you know we're doing the SOB story and winding about
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: our home states. Um, and uh you know we're talking
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: about how a good friend of ours, you know, lives
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: resides in Iowa and he's he's a phenomenal hunter too,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: kills some really good deer I'm publicly and he's a
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: a true woodsman UM. And we were talking about how
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: he gets to experience and see so many more mature
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: animals than we get to like at home, Like he
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: gets to observe and learn um by actually observing all
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: these older age class books because of where he lives.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: And it's like such a cool Um, it's such a
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: cool learning experience and advantage, you know, to be able
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: to observe that so often where you know, in Michigan,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: I I might I might see a mature buck once
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: a season, you know, and just some fleeting moment like
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: right before I shoot him or something, you know what
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: I mean. And it's it's it is. It's it's different
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: in every area. Um. They all have their you know,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: they're different challenges. UM. But yeah, it's just kind of
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: interesting you said that. We were just talking about that yesterday.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: But pretty cool stuff. I mean, I think it's important.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: And I equate a lot of stuff to bird dogs
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: because I'm so I'm so into them and I'm right,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I love training them and I'm buddies with some of
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: the freaking best trainers in the world, Like I work
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: with Tom doc and all the time, and that dude
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: can like see into the future with dogs, It's incredible.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that you see with bird
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: dogs is a lot of times, you know, let's say
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: you live in South Dakota. You're like, Okay, I'm gonna
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: get peasant dog. I'm gonna go buy a GSP or
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: a lab or whatever whatever your flavor is, and you
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: I train it and it's gonna hunt pheasants and that
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: dog can be great at that. But if you get
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: a dog that's pretty versatile and you hunt those pheasants,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: but you're like, you know what, I'm gonna skip down
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: south and I'm gonna hunt quail, and I'm gonna go out,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna move a little farther west. I'm gonna unt
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: those sharpie's and I'm gonna hunt some prairie chickens and
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: maybe we're gonna spend some time in a duck blind.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: When you have a dog that does that stuff, especially
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: when you when you're working with them when they're young
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: and they get exposed to those new environments and those
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: public land berds in different places, and you see that
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: confidence level. So you know, going from wild roosters to
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: a covey of quils a different freaking thing, but there's
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of similar elements, you know, like especially from
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: the dog's perspective, and you just see them and it's
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: like a little it's like a little mirror to what
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: we can do for ourselves, where it's like these dogs,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you you drop them off in a new environment,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing right away, Like you
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: see them learning, like they're figuring ship out, and you
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: get those first contacts and they go, Okay, I'm certain
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to see what's going on here. And then
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: you watch it like almost in real time on those
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: trips level up and like we don't think about ourselves
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: that way. But when you get time to go travel
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: to a couple of different states, or you take one
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: state a year, and maybe it's an alcohunt, maybe it's
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: an antelope hunt, you know, maybe it's a white tail whatever,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: you're putting yourself in new environments where you you just
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: you gotta work with what's between your ears, and you're
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: gonna get better. Even if you go and you fail,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: which probably will the first time. Like you probably not
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: gonna succeed and fill that tag. You might, but what
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do is become better and when you go back,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know if you've seen this, but a
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: lot of times when we my buddies and I will
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: go to a new state, will go and you know,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: usually somebody will kill right, like you'll somebody will kill something.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: But it's like the second year you go. If you
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: go back, then it's freaking on and it doesn't happen
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: the way you thought it would a lot of times,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: but it happens, and it's just like you just got
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: that experience layer leveled in there and you go, Okay,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: now now it's on. And I just love that we
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: have we have the chance to do that for ourselves,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: even if you know, like if you're sitting at home,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, I can't go to five states, Like yeah,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: most people can't, but if you could do one, and
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: you probably can. Like, man, if you really love to hunt,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: you should probably give it a shot and just see
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: if that's your thing. Oh yeah, absolutely, Um, I mean yeah,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: nothing will, nothing will make you question what what you
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: really know about hunting and just getting thrown into a
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: whole new world of white tails that you're not experienced with.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, look what Kenyan got to do this year,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: you know, with it that that cool project he did
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: where he got to go to all these places, um
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: with all these really good experienced hunters in those places
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: and he got to experience and learn from them and
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: then got to to do it himself. I mean, what
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: an awesome trip. And I know he was stressed out
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: about that, and he was a little worried, you know,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: about some things. And I was like, man, listen, don't
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: worry about if you kill anything, like you have such
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: a unique opportunity, like something I would give anything to do.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't matter if you don't kill anything, Like,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get that experience. You're gonna learn from an
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: expert in that area, are someone that's very very good
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: in that area, and you're gonna learn so much that's
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: gonna make you a better hunter. You're gonna be able
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: to bring that home into Michigan and and apply some
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: of that knowledge. You're gonna you're gonna have confidence to
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: go to any one of those places now. And like
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: you said, you know, now what's your second year. Now
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: you're building on that. Now you're gonna start getting some
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: kills and some opportunities and stuff. It's like and that
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: that's what it's all about. So I don't know, it
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: was just it's just a really neat idea for for
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: a for a show. And I don't know, I'm super
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: pumped to see that, to be honest with you. But yeah, man,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: just throwing throwing yourself into all those new situations, um,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: you know, and and just just building on it, you know,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: and just and just keep improving. Um, you know. I
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: I'd really like to I really like to see and
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of guys out there that
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: that's that's important to them is just to be actually
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: be a good hunter and to be um, you know,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: to be to increase and build on that skill set
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: so that they can go to different places and and
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: have some encounters and say some success. I mean there's
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: tons of guys even on social media YouTube. I mean,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: they're they're traveling. The out of state thing is as
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: big as it's ever been. So that's a good thing,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think it's only gonna
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: get better. Yeah, it might be a little more crowded
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: for us, and you know, maybe the quality of bucks
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: goes down with the increased pressure, but whatever, you know
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: what I mean. I I think it's a good thing. Um,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: you always gotta adapt and overcome and find new areas.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, if if more guys are got out
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: there getting after it and becoming better hunters, and you know,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: you gotta level up yourself, you know what I mean,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: you gotta rise above that too to keep to keep
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: getting it done. So just you know, if you're if
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: if anyone can take anything from this, you know, episode
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: is just you know, trying to keep that mindset. I think,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: you know, keep that mindset of actually trying to improve
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: and trying to become a better hunter, and too, to
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: keep that idea of becoming a better woods been alive.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: You know, that's something I think is so so important.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want to lose that, and I don't want
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: to quit. I don't want to quit talking about the
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: guys that came before us that did that. Um, you know,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: those are the you know, the true legends of hunting,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: and those are the guys that kind of paved that
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: that way. And uh, I don't know, I I I
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: certainly hope that I'm I'm I'm improving to the point
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: where you know, I we'll feel that I'm you know, well,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: I'll feel like I'm a good woodman, you know what
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: I mean? You know, you know when I'm when it's
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: all said and done, I want to have that feeling
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: like that I became the best hunter that I could
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: be and I didn't just try to be successful. I
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: didn't try to buy it. I didn't try to get
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: it through technology. I didn't try to get it by
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: securing a bunch of land. Um. That's important to me. Um.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: And I know everything everything hunting could be completely different,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: why they hunt and what makes them happy for every guy.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to steer everybody down this path,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. But I hope this this idea of of
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: keeping the woodsmanship alive, you know, I hope that. Uh,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: I hope that lasts. You know what I mean, I
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: really do. I think that's important. I think this is
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: a good conversation to have. I do too. Man, we
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: gotta wrap this up here in just a second, but
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you something. So we we filmed
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: this one week in November series that's up on YouTube now,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: and I think it was the fifth day. I had
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: a I had a wild day. So I had like
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty inch of running in the morning,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: he went by me at fifteen yards. I couldn't shoot
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: because my cameraman wasn't ready watered. At twenty yards, I
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: had this buck within thirty four yards of me for
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: seven and a half minutes on the on the video,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: it's only like a twenty second encounter or something, but
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: it was a long encounter, right, And I drew on
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: that buck four times he got He made every decision
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: that buck made was perfect, Like he just instead of
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: just walking down the easy trail, he cut into the
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: brush at one point, and he just took an extra
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: five yards on his row and finally got down wind
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: of us. But that deer was like he just he
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: made every freaking choice correctly. So I lost that deer
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: and super bummed. That afternoon, had a nice buck come
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: in chasing does just flat out and missed him, rushed
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: my shot, and so I had that happen. And then
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: as it got dark, we ran out of camera light
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: and like a hundred and seventy five deer came out
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: and this is this is and I say that specifically
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: because I'm looking at this buck from like seventy yards
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: away through my binoculars. And my first impression is one eight.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: And then my buddy saw him later and so I
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: was like, I think that deer is like a he's
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: a monster. And my buddy said his first impression when
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: he saw him in person, he's like, I don't know,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: hud popped into my head. So that's what we're going with.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: But that deer chase the dough into bow or rage.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: It was still legal shooting light, but no camera light left.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: And I had watching that show. I watched it with
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: my daughters when it would come out every Tuesday, and
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: just watching that show, I just had like it brought
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: back this feeling that day, even though I had an
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: amazing day encounterwise, I felt like I just did not
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: know what I was doing, like you know, like I
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: was just like I can't get this right and even
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: know how it hurts, like it hurts when you blank,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: but it really hurts when you're like right there there,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: right there and they get away and then to have
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: three bucks do that. And one day I felt like
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: I should not have been hunting, like I felt like
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was doing. When was the
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: last time where you just had a moment where you're
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: out there and you're like, do I even know what
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: the hell I'm doing? Like, when was the last time
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: you wanted to throw that bow away and pick up
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: golf clubs? Let me ask you that. UM. All last year, ironically,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: all last year, I felt like I was flown drink.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: The crazy thing is I killed four bucks this year.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: I killed four bucks last year. This year I felt
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: dialed in. I felt dialed in. I was super confident.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: UM had the same success both years. Last year I
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: could not get anything going. I never scouted so hard
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: and searched so far, four different counties for a shooter
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: in Michigan. I could not turn anything up. UM, I
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: just felt I felt like I didn't know what I
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: was doing. I was talking to my buddy Justin right
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: about I was like, I have never had a season
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: where I felt more unconfident and like I didn't know
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: what I was doing then right now. But you know
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: I had four days, four days where things went right
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: and I made the shot and got an animal down.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: This year, it's like I was really dialed in with things.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I was reading signed, I was getting on
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: a book, shot him, you know what I mean. And
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: I go out to go out of state, I have
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: a game plan, you know, get up high glass glass
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: on a I now look for a shooter. Boom, got
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: one made a stock shot him. You know. I mean
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: things were like clicking and the confidence was at all
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: time high. So yeah, man, it happens to me all
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: the time, Like my confidence level is up and down
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: and up and down. But what I've learned is just like, man,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know at all, Like I'm I'm not I'm
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: not a deer hunting expert, you know what I mean.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I'm a guy that loves it. I'm a guy that
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: UM has spent a lot of time. I dedicated a
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: huge portion of my life to hunting UM and always
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: with that mindset to learn as much as I can
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: and to keep improving. And uh, I've learned that. You know,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: my seasons are gonna go like this, My mental toughness
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: and confidence is gonna go like this. I'm gonna get
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: thrown in some situations where I'm just gonna be like,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: you know, like are there even any deer around? Like
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: I can't get on anything? And then you know what,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: you just you just keep at it, You keep following
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: your instinct, You keep making those decisions that you've you know,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: those instinctual decisions that you've developed over the years, through
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: all this experience, and then all of a sudden things
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: start to happen. You start to get in them, or
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: you make that right stand choice and boom, here he comes.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: And you know, it happens to me all the time,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: So I I I mean, people might have an impression
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: that I'm like confident and a hundred percent dialed in
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: on each and every hunt. Well that couldn't be further
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: from the truth. I mean, it happens to me all
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: the time. So but I've learned to ride the wave.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: I've learned to trust my instinct and trust my decisions.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: And there's gonna be hunts and seasons and situations where
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: I just make the wrong call and I can't get
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: anything going. But you kind of have to weed through
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: that sometimes to get to those good moments where the
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: instincts take instincts take over and you get it done. Well,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: that's that's sort of a dirty little secret about why
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: you know, had not a state to hunt white tales.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: Is can be so beneficial? Is you feel really guilty
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: if you're not getting after it. You know, if you
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: at home and you're kind of in a slump and
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: you're like, I'm not gonna go sit tonight. I don't
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: think it's it's easy to talk yourself out of it
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: for a lot of people. You know, if you've bought
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: that over the counter, or you know, you brought that
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: nonresident license and you've taken that time off of work
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: and you've bought all the food to go camping and
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah and driven out there. You've got a
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: lot invested in that you've told everybody you're going, like
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: you you don't want to come home empty handed, and
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: it kind of teaches you, like this stuff is streaky man.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: Like you you have times where it's like you are
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: on it, and you have times where you just suck
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: and there's like you just gotta the only way out
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: is through and on a trip, like you're just gonna
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: keep going because you don't have a choice, like your
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: you do have a choice, but you're not gonna give
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: yourself that choice. You're like, I'm just gonna keep hunting,
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Like you know. A prime example would be like you know,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: if you and I know you've done this, but if
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: you go on a spot stock hunt, like let's say
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: you're gonna go spot and stock antelope, like, man, you
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: want to feel like you shouldn't be carrying a bow around,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: go try to call up on some and or crawl
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: up on some antelope out there, because you'll get your
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: ass kicked most of the time. But they live out
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: in the wide open. They let you see them all
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: day long, and it's like, well, I'll just keep I'll
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: find the next one, and I'll find the next one.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: And then once in a while you get that buck
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: that beds down, or that that one that just just
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: puts himself in a position where you're like, all of
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: a sudden, you look up and you're like, oh my god,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: I'm forty three yards away. He's clueless. And you got
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: into the guard after just getting smoked for ten stocks
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: in a row, and you just realize like, okay, like
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: this was just a numbers game, Like I just had
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: to stick through it. But it's it's hard, and I
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: think I think that's one of the things in the
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: hunting industry we haven't done a very good job of
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: because it's not as sexy as killing a big one.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: It's just talking about how often it really sucks, and
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: it's really not going your way because it happens. I mean,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: I've had streaks. I've talked about this before, like in
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: in the big Woods up in northern Wisconsin where I'm
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: trying to kill a doe and I haven't seen a
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: deer in three weeks. You know, I'm not hunting twenty
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: one days in a row, but you know, I'm putting
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: in days every week, and I'm like, i can't even
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: see one, let alone shoot one. And I'm talking any
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: antler list dear let alone bucks. And then every once
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: in a while, it breaks loose if you stick with it,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: or you get into that situation where your mojo changes
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm gonna try this new spot, and
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: the sign is there, and you set up and now
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: you observe something and you're like, oh, they're crossing down there,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: They're they're following this soft edge. Now you get into
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: something and you're you're back in it just by sticking
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, I guess
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: I have a I have a bit of a reputation
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: of going on these short hunts right because of my
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: my job and I don't have vacation time and getting
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: it done in a short period. And you know I've
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: done that. I've done that a lot, But I I'm
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: not so naive to think that I can go anywhere
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: and do that. Um. There are places, um, like you mentioned, UM,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: there's places UM in the south, there's places northern Wisconsin, uh,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: southern Ohio. There's there's tons of places where I know
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: that I would not be able to go in two
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: to four days and get it done consistently. UM. Just
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: the dear density that the difficulty of the trained, the
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: the ability or the a lack of defined UM destination,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: food sources and bedding and travel routes and all that
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. You know, those types of places require
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: more time, you know what I mean. They're harder places.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: They require more time. That's a place that you know
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: anyone could go and kill one on the first day.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: But in reality, like, UM, some of my friends go,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: you know to some of these spots and you know,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a seven to twelve day
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: uh trip. You know that might be over if you
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: can't do that all in one, it might be over
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: a span of two or three years. But like you know,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: so a lot of guys I get down on themselves
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: you know about going on these Uh, like I a
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: couple of my friends, you know, guys that are acquaintances,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: They'll they'll message you like and I don't know how
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: you're successful on every out of state hunt you go on,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: which isn't true, but they say that, and they're like, man,
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: I've been on you know, ten and I haven't killed anything.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, you know, look where you're going,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You're going to spots that
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: are hard. You're you're becoming a better hunter. You're going
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: these areas that are that are you know, more difficult. Um,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: and you know, you you don't have the also all
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: the experience and the time that I've put in yet,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: Like it'll come, you know, it'll come. But you're starting
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: off on some really challenging stuff and that's gonna benefit you.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: You know, you just gotta gotta be patient, you gotta
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: put in the time. There's a bigger learning curve in
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: some of these areas, so you know, a lot of
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: guys need to keep that in mind too. Um, you
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: know the Midwest. Um, sometimes I can't have a way
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: of you know, making guys look a little more skilled
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: than they really are. You know, what I mean, And
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: it's it's not taking away from any Midwest guy. I'm
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: a Midwest guy and I travel a lot to the Midwest,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: but it's you know, there's more dear, there's more good Bucks,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: there's more great bucks. Um and uh, usually the train
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: is a little bit easier to manage. So you know,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: those are all considerations, all things to to to think about,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: you know, when you're evaluating yourself and evaluating what you've done,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's we all fall into that. We
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: all fall into that trap of like comparing ourselves to
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: other hunters, and we all know we shouldn't do it,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: but we all do it. Um, you know. But that's
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: all those are all things to consider, you know what
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: I mean. Just look at it more like there's a
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: guy doing this, you know, and and and what can
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: I learn from this guy? You know, he's got a
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: completely different situation, you know. I think about those guys
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: is like from SEQ one. You know, they are killing
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: those giants suburban deer like and I don't have a
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: situation like that. But you can listen to those guys
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: talk like these guys are smart, like these guys are
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: these guys are very They're the best at what they
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: do obviously, and uh, you know, they they throw out
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: a little nuggets when they're talking about it, like, man,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: that was smart. Yep, that's that's true that he's talks about.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: You know, Lee and Drew they talked about some of
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: the same stuff I see like here in Michigan, like mature,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: dear behavior, and I'm like, yeah, man, that's that's uh.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: You know, there's little pieces to pull from every hunter,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: every situation. You talk about your Iowa buck when I
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: was asking all those questions, I do that with everybody,
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: Like I want, I need to hear the story because
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: there's something I can learn from it. I love that.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: I love to hear what you were thinking. I love
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: to hear about the terrain, like what was he doing?
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: Like you know, what was he just cruising? Was it?
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: You know, what time of year was it, what time
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: of day was it, what was the wind doing? Like
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: I wanna I want to decipher through all this info
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: because I'm you know, I'm selfishly trying to learn from it,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: like that's a cool experience that you just had. You
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: were successful. I want to pull something that I can
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: you know, put in my uh you know, maybe maybe
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: pull into my skill set and and apply down the
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: road like I'll you know, as you you know, have
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: some success. You know, you you do your normal thing,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: you send out your text message to all your buddies.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: There's like a handful of guys that that asked me
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: the story like what what? Why did you do that?
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: Why did you sit there? Like what was it? And
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: those are the guys that have that same mindset, you know,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: like a lot of my friends just like congrats, you
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. But they're missing such a huge
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: opportunity to to learn something. So I try not to ever,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: you know, let that opportunity, you know go. When when
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: when you know of a of a hunter, a good hunter,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: a bad hunter, doesn't matter, just any hunter. You know,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: if you can get that story and really listen to
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: it and ask some questions, you might even, like you said,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: you know, you started thinking about some things just by
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: me asking the questions. But that's that's just the way
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: my brain works. I use that as a uh, you know,
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: take me to school, Tony, Like take me to school,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: tell me about that hunt, like I need to know.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: I want to know. Well, I love that stuff, and
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: so that buck, I'll just like I know, I said,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: I was gonna end this, but we gotta talk about
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: this quick. That buck. I went in there because I
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: thought I had a really good pinch point, even though
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: it was mid October. I was just like I knew
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: there were bucks in the area, you know, and I
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: was like, I think this is gonna be good. I
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: ended up jumping that deer and he ran down the
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: bank of this river basically between where the river is
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: and the bluff is down this chute and the way
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: the wind was and everything. I'm like, I don't know.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: I think I think he's gonna turn around and come back.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: Like it was a it was a chance sort of
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: fell into my lap thing that I set up for
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: and it just worked. He came back and I shot him.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: I went back there this spring. I walked the whole
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: freaking place out because I got to thinking about it,
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: you know, like after talking to you, and just like
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't really know what was going on there,
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: Like I know what I thought was going on there,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: and I walked in there and I killed a deer
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: and it was awesome, but I'm like, I don't know
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: what he ran to. I don't know what's down the road,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: like you know, I didn't go down there because when
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: he walked past me, I shot him and he went
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: back the way I came in. So I went and
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: walked that out turkey hunting, just because I'm like, I
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: just want to see it, Like I want to see
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: the tree and I want to see what what I
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: was missing, Like why why was that buck there? Like
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: what's the total picture? And it was so different than
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: I thought, like I had filled in the blanks and
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: just like okay, you know, like I must be pretty
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: damn good. I walked in here and did this, and
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: then I saw what it really was, like the whole
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: place was, and I was like I wasn't even close
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: to the good spots, Like I got lucky I jumped
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: that buck, But I found some real pinch points and
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: I found some like a couple of benchy betting area
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: type of situations there where I was like, I thought
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: I had a picture of this spot, and I sure
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: could have sold it as that, But when I went
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: in there and really figured it out, I was like
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: I I knew like five percent about this this little area,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: and seeing it in the spring, I was like this,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: it was just an eye opener to be like, oh,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: this is actually what was happening there, and I've done that.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: I killed a buck in Wisconsin, uh, I don't know,
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: two or three years ago in a night where the
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: first year I saw it was like a one sixty.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: It was it was a monster. I didn't kill him,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: you know, he came in made a rub. I killed
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: a smaller buck that came through later, and the next
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: day I was like, I gotta see where he came from.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: Like I took my dog in there. I went, I
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: went freaking grouse hunting. I just looked around and it
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: was just like so beneficial to me. In fact, I've
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: been back there about six times and and really kind
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: of like winner scouted and everything. But so much of
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: this stuff when you just go show up someplace and
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: you're like I got this pin down, I'm gonna go
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: walk into this area, you get like a little bit
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: of a picture. But when you really start expanding that
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: through scouting and spending some more time, it just like
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: helps you like piece together why was that buck there?
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: Like what was he doing? Or like why do people
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: are here and walk in there? When I want to
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: go hunt this creek bottom here, and it just the
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: more stuff you do like that, and the more time
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: you spend out there, and I know you do that
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: because you're a scouting fiend. It just I feel like
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: it makes it It makes me enjoy the process so
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: much more. Yeah. Well that's a testament of the type
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: of hunter you are and the mentality you have, you
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: know what I mean that that that urge to learn
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: about what happened. Like, that's that's always I do the
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: same exact thing with every single kill encounter whatever. I
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: always go back and investigate either you know, if it's
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: like successful hunt, I'll do it right after. Um, but
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: you know, after the season, I'll go back and really
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: try to figure out what was going on there, why
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: you know, why a deer was coming from this way,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: or where was it coming from or where is it
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: going to? Same thing. But it's that constant urge to
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: to just keep gaining more information and learning. Like it's
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: just I don't know, man, my brain is always like
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: thinking about that stuff. I like have to shut it off. Um.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: You know sometimes I have to shut it off. Like
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: I'll be at home and I'm just thinking about you know,
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: this stuff, and I'm thinking about it and I'm bringing
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: my phone up. You know, We're supposed to be watching
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: a movie and I'm bringing up maps and I'm like
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: looking down like this, and I'm like, you know, at
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: least we'll be like, Hendy, what are you doing? And
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, you're right. You know, I gotta I
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: gotta shut it off. Like it's constantly going there, just
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: taking more information, more experiences, more you know, more info.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: So you know, I don't know, it's just the way
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: my my brain works. It sounds like it's kind of
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: the way your brain works. You have some other hobbies,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: which is good. I I probably need some other ones. Um,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's you know, white tails are bow
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: hunting in general just kind of takes front and center. Um,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: you know. And the only thing that I've really been
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: able to you know, put in front of that and
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: keep in front of it obviously, is is just the
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: family stuff, you know what I mean. It's it's a
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: far it's a far second place behind and that. But
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: everything else, it's just like I don't seem to have
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: the passion for it anymore. But um yeah, I don't know, man,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: that conversation though, it is, dude, And I really think
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty squirrely to man. But I've started to realize,
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: you know, I've I've been like obsessive about different stuff, right,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: Like I've been obsessive about deer hunting. I've been obsessive
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: about bass fishing, the dog thing, lots of stuff like
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: I can I can go to a negative place with
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: it by by getting into it too much. And what
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: I started realizing is like I just got to find
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: the stuff that is gonna make me happy and I'm
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: gonna enjoy doing it and not not go that overboard.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: And I started getting better at all of it. And
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: so like we just we just I love fishing in
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: the ocean. You know, I live in Minnesota, so I
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: get to do it like five six seven days a year.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: I love taking my little girls down there. And I'm
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: terrible at it. Like I'm fishing with you know, like
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: live shrimp, like I don't care what bites. Like, you know,
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: I try to like learn some stuff, but you know,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: I'm very very rookie with that stuff. But even when
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: I'm doing that, I still feel like there's parallels to
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: white tail hunting or when I go pheasant hunting. I
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: this is gonna sound so stupid, but I killed some roosters, uh,
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: you know in December where I ran into him. My
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: dog flushed him up, and I was like, in my head,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: my first thought was I feel like I just found
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: a rooster staging area because I was like looking at
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: the terrain, I'm like, they're not where I thought they
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: were going to be there, definitely not in the food source.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: It feels like they were kind of just loafing here
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: in this area. And so much of this stuff when
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: you just get outdoors and you're you know, whether it's
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: just an addiction to scouting or whether you love small
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: game hunting or something else, it all feeds the white
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: tail thing. Like we've sold this message that it's kind
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: of grilla warfare against the white tails and you've gotta
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: scout NonStop, and like you can do that, people are successful.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: But if you need a little more motivation to be
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: out there, like if you wouldn't go, you know, spend
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: as much time out there in December as you need to,
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: or you probably should, but the roosters are out there
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: and you can go learn something about white tails while
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: you're having fun doing something else or spring turkey hunting
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: and looking at some new ground. However, you do it
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: like you're you're gonna level up if you spend more
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: time out there, if you're paying attention to what's going on,
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: you know, nature, There's there's so many like parallels in nature.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: You know, like we don't think about a pheasant and
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: a deer being the same thing, but their motivations in
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: life are the same thing. They don't want to get eaten.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: They want to eat something every day, you know, at
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: one point of the year. They want to have sex
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: for like two weeks and then they're gonna move on
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: and then they're gonna just try to survive. And I
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: just think, I think we have really cool chances to
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: be to to really enjoy ourselves while we're getting better
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: at this stuff. Yeah, I mean, yeah, to your point too,
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: it's like all those other things that you do, you know,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: hunting wise, for different you know, different types of critters
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: and stuff. I mean, they all require a different little
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: you know, skill sets, right, and they all can translate
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: back into white tail hunting and and improve in some way.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: Whether it's like like you said, antelope, you're you know,
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: you're sneaking up, you're trying to stalk antalope, and it's
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: like it's one of the hardest critters to stalk up on,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: you know, and then you get a white tail in
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: a situation where you need to, you know, try to
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: do it, or a mule deer or something that seems
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: like child's play, you know what I mean. Um, not
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: saying child's play, but you get what I'm saying, Like
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's easier than an yes, yeah, or or
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: or you try to, you know, try to sneak up
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: on a turkey, you know what I mean. You're trying
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: to spot and stalk a turkey, like super difficult, right,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: but if you could get that done. You're working on
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: your your sneaking skills. And I don't really know. I'm
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: not much of a pheasant hunter, so I can't speak
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: on that, but I'm sure there's things that you've you know,
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: you've learned there that have helped you be a little
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: better in the white tail wood. So yeah, and it
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: all goes in hand. The more you can be out there,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: for sure, you're learning, you're developing, you know, woodsmanship up
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: and and you know ways to to to sneak around
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: and to navigate and to be more effective. And it's
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: just that that mindset, that killer mindset you know. So yeah,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: it's all interesting stuff. I love it, buddy. Let's wrap
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: this up. Andy. It's always a pleasure to chat with you, man.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on Buddy day anytime. Buddy,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: I uh, I enjoyed talking with you, so whenever you want,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: just let me know. Awesome, thanks man. Okay, that's it
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: for this week, folks. Be sure to tune in next
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: week for some more white tailed goodness. This has been
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: weird hunt and I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson, as
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: I always, thank you so much for listening. And if
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: you're looking for more white tail content, be sure to
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: check out the meat eater dot com slash wired to
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: see a pile of new articles each week. Head on
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: over to our YouTube channel to check out our how
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: to stuff or go to the meat Eater YouTube channel
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: and you can check out our one Week in November series,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: which we dropped last November December