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Andy Stanley - Great Leaders Play to Their Strengths, Part 2 · Andy Stanley Sermons

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: conversation designed to help leaders go further, faster. If you're
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: listening to this by way of a podcast app, be
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: sure you check out the YouTube version of this series.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: This is the fourth episode of a special series based
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  Speaker 1: on my recently released book, What Great Leaders Do. And
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  Speaker 1: facilitating the conversation is my co-host, Holly Goddard. Holly has
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  Speaker 1: been a part of our leadership team and in a
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: leadership role in our organization recently. For 15 years. So
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  Speaker 1: she's keeping the conversation honest.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
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  Speaker 3: And actually, this is what I love about this book.
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  Speaker 3: I have seen these things play out on the ground
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  Speaker 3: in my day job. And even as I told you,
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  Speaker 3: since we've been doing this conversation, I've seen it play
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  Speaker 3: out all the time, all around me.
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  Speaker 1: So this isn't just theory. Sometimes things that are part
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  Speaker 1: of an organizational culture, you're not aware of until somebody
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  Speaker 1: titles it, names it, calls it out. And then it's like, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's what we've been doing. And can I just make
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  Speaker 1: one comment about that, even though this isn't the topic?
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  Speaker 1: This is why it's so important for the second generation
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  Speaker 1: of leadership, or excuse me, for the first generation of
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  Speaker 1: leadership in a new organization to identify those things, because
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  Speaker 1: what's intuitive to founders, and I'm a founder, what's intuitive
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  Speaker 1: to us is not necessarily intuitive to the next group
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  Speaker 1: of leaders, the next generation of leadership. And so naming
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  Speaker 1: these things, branding these things, It's so important. So anyway,
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  Speaker 1: so I'm glad that you've, it's like, oh yeah, so
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  Speaker 1: that's what we've been doing for 15 years.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what we've been doing.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm so glad that you've written this book and
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  Speaker 3: put these words around it because whenever we need the playbook,
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  Speaker 3: what does it look like to be great? We can
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  Speaker 3: just open it back up, grab some of these handles,
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  Speaker 3: which we spent the first couple episodes talking about how
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  Speaker 3: great leaders lead themselves.
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  Speaker 2: That's the first thing, baseline, number one, essential.
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  Speaker 1: Self-leadership, yep.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, got to do that.
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  Speaker 3: And then last time, we started talking about how great
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  Speaker 3: leaders play to their strengths.
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  Speaker 2: Now, you kind of.
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  Speaker 3: Bursted my bubble on something because you said great leaders
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  Speaker 3: aren't supposed to be well-rounded, which I always kind of
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  Speaker 3: pride of myself in being well-rounded.
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  Speaker 2: But that's not what you're supposed to do. You're actually
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  Speaker 2: supposed to create a well-rounded organization.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And so to do that, you got to stay in
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  Speaker 2: your lane. You got to stay in your strength.
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  Speaker 1: And then hire people and position them to stay in
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  Speaker 1: their lanes as well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: I love this North Star that you gave us. It's
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  Speaker 3: one of my favorite bottom lines. You say, only do
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  Speaker 3: what only you can do. So that's our marching orders.
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  Speaker 3: Stay in our strengths.
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  Speaker 2: And so with all of that as a backdrop. We're
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  Speaker 2: going to talk about why we don't do that, why
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  Speaker 2: we get in our own way of that.
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  Speaker 3: And you give us five things that leaders do that
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  Speaker 3: just totally take us off course.
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  Speaker 2: We're not going to talk about all of them today.
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  Speaker 3: Your listeners, they're going to have to pick up the
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  Speaker 3: book to get all the juice. But we're going to
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  Speaker 3: hit a couple of them, especially some that maybe I've
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  Speaker 3: struggled with in the past. You can help me process.
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  Speaker 2: In real time. Actually, I do want to jump into one.
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  Speaker 3: That I've had to deal with in my leadership, especially
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  Speaker 3: when I stepped into this role. This is the biggest
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  Speaker 3: role I've ever had. You know, I've led lots of
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  Speaker 3: departments and I found myself at a point where I
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  Speaker 3: was leading teams that I had never been a practitioner in.
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  Speaker 3: And so you say this, authority over does not equate
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  Speaker 3: to competence in. And we get ourselves in trouble when
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  Speaker 3: we can't distinguish the difference.
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  Speaker 2: Of those So why is it so easy.
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  Speaker 3: For leaders to confuse being responsible for with being involved in?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So going back to the broader context, this is
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  Speaker 1: one of the things that pulls leaders out of their
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  Speaker 1: sweet spot or out of their lane. As leaders, we
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  Speaker 1: have generally leaders have a high sense of responsibility. We
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  Speaker 1: just feel responsible. And if you're over division or department,
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  Speaker 1: you feel responsible for everything that happens in that division,
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  Speaker 1: everything that happens in that department or as a founder.
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  Speaker 1: I feel responsible for everything that happens in the entire
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  Speaker 1: organization for people, for employees I've never met and in
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  Speaker 1: places I haven't even visited. So you feel that weight
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  Speaker 1: of responsibility. So consequently, there is a tendency, if we're
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  Speaker 1: not careful, to be drawn out of our lane, out
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  Speaker 1: of our strengths in order to delve into and to
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  Speaker 1: get involved in things that we're responsible for. But we
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  Speaker 1: don't have any competency there. So what I wrote in
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  Speaker 1: my notes, and this is from the book, that leaders
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  Speaker 1: who assume that responsibility for necessitates involvement in eventually get
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  Speaker 1: in their way. So leaders who assume that since I'm
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  Speaker 1: responsible for it, I need to be involved in it,
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  Speaker 1: they eventually get in their own way. So for example,
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  Speaker 1: as you know, there are things that I'm not good at,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm responsible for. So for example, I am I
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  Speaker 1: have no proficiency and I have no education and I
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  Speaker 1: have no training in capturing a live event. But every
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  Speaker 1: week in multiple locations, we are capturing live events. So
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  Speaker 1: on the weekend or the weekday that I walk into
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  Speaker 1: the studio and start giving instructions to the team in
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  Speaker 1: there about capturing a live event with all the camera
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  Speaker 1: switching and all the things going on, things will not
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  Speaker 1: get better. They'll get worse. But and here's here's the takeaway.
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  Speaker 1: because I'm the boss, because I carry authority, because my
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  Speaker 1: words weigh so much, they may feel pressure to do
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  Speaker 1: what I ask them to do, even though it's not
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  Speaker 1: going to create a better product. So at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: if the capture is a disaster, I take responsibility for it.
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  Speaker 1: But to ensure that it's not a disaster, I stay
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  Speaker 1: out of it. So leaders who have a hard time
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  Speaker 1: differentiating between their responsibility and their proficiency, what they're educated for,
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  Speaker 1: trained for, what they have experience in, what they have
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  Speaker 1: intuition in, which we'll talk about later, this is a
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  Speaker 1: really big deal. And the smaller the organization, the more
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  Speaker 1: inclined leaders are to dip into those areas. And so
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  Speaker 1: there's a double whammy. First of all, we interfere with
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  Speaker 1: the people who know what they're doing. And secondly, we're
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  Speaker 1: spending our time on something we're not trained to do,
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  Speaker 1: not proficient in, and that time's being stolen from what
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  Speaker 1: we should be giving it to. So this is just
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  Speaker 1: one of the reasons leaders kind of miss the, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, what's obvious about, I mean, what's brilliant about, hey,
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  Speaker 1: you should play to your strengths. I don't think anybody
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  Speaker 1: argues with that. But we get drawn away, and this
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  Speaker 1: is one of the ways.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true.
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  Speaker 3: Well, when you feel responsible, it's so tempting to get
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  Speaker 3: your hands in all the things.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So what does it look like? What does the discipline
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  Speaker 2: of actually staying out of the way look like?
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  Speaker 1: So here's what I wrote in answer to that question,
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  Speaker 1: because this is so important. And honestly, as I was
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  Speaker 1: putting these answers together, once again, as we talked about earlier,
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  Speaker 1: it's like, am I doing that? Am I doing that?
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  Speaker 2: It's good accountability.
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  Speaker 1: Are the people here in the studio with us going,
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  Speaker 1: he talks a good talk, he needs to do that.
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  Speaker 1: So here's what I wrote down. We need to leverage
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  Speaker 1: our authority as little as possible. And I talk a
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  Speaker 1: lot about that in the book. Leverage our authority as
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  Speaker 1: little as possible, just because we're responsible for, just because
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  Speaker 1: we have the authority to leverage it as little as possible,
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  Speaker 1: because that ensures that I stay out of the areas
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  Speaker 1: that I'm not trained in and I'm not proficient. And second,
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  Speaker 1: and this is a broader topic maybe for another day,
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  Speaker 1: I just think leaders should make as few decisions as possible.
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  Speaker 1: And Early on in leadership, when you're put in charge
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  Speaker 1: of something, you feel like, OK, you know, this is
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  Speaker 1: my department. This is my division. This is my team.
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  Speaker 1: I need to make the decisions because I'm the leader.
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  Speaker 1: Great leaders don't make more decisions. Great leaders make fewer
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  Speaker 1: decisions because they've hired well and they're trusting the people
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  Speaker 1: who have more better intuition and more expertise to make
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  Speaker 1: those decisions. So one of the greatest gifts we can
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  Speaker 1: give people who report to us is this. You decide.
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  Speaker 1: You decide. You decide. You're more proficient. You have more expertise.
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  Speaker 1: You have more intuition. I'll take responsibility if it's a disaster.
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  Speaker 1: But in the meantime, you decide.
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  Speaker 3: You're actually really good at that. And at first, it's
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  Speaker 3: really intimidating because you're.
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  Speaker 1: Like, oh, I've got to decide. Yeah, what if I
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  Speaker 1: mess up? What if I mess up?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. But even the fact that you say, okay, I'll
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  Speaker 3: take responsibility. You're not in it alone, but I trust
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  Speaker 3: you to make that decision. Okay, that's so good. And
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  Speaker 3: here's my.
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  Speaker 2: Kind of example of how I've lived this.
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  Speaker 3: When I stepped into this role, all the people that
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  Speaker 3: do the live programming, the Sunday morning event where thousands
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  Speaker 3: of people are in a room, and we've got tech
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  Speaker 3: directors and lighting directors and audio directors.
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  Speaker 1: A green room full of musicians, contractors.
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  Speaker 2: I've never sang the first note. I know nothing about
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  Speaker 2: any of that.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you did once at a Christmas production.
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  Speaker 3: I did, and you did ask me not to do
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  Speaker 3: that again, which I won't.
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  Speaker 2: That's not my sweet spot.
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  Speaker 1: I am not a singer. We should probably play that.
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  Speaker 2: No, that does not make any of these cuts.
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  Speaker 3: So when I did step into this role, it was
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  Speaker 3: intimidating because all of a sudden I'm the boss and
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  Speaker 3: they're asking me questions of things I don't really know
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  Speaker 3: that much about.
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  Speaker 2: But what I appreciate that.
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  Speaker 3: Exists in our organizations is that we have this system
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  Speaker 3: to orchestrate, evaluate, orchestrate, evaluate. So even when you don't
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  Speaker 3: know how to do the technical things, you kind of
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  Speaker 3: know when something's off. And that's really all you do
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  Speaker 3: is speak up in.
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  Speaker 2: That orchestration evaluation process.
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  Speaker 3: So I found that to be a really helpful thing
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  Speaker 3: that we added in so that you can just keep
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  Speaker 3: your authority over without getting your hands in.
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  Speaker 1: So let me comment on that because there is a
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  Speaker 1: process that undergirds that. So one way to think of
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  Speaker 1: it is this. When I'm responsible for something I know
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  Speaker 1: very little about, the best approach is to evaluate, and
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  Speaker 1: you just said it, is to wait and evaluate outcomes
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  Speaker 1: rather than get involved in processes. wait and evaluate outcomes
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  Speaker 1: instead of getting involved in processes. Where leaders get in
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  Speaker 1: the way is when they step into a process, something
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  Speaker 1: that's going on, and they use their weighty words because
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  Speaker 1: they're the boss, they're the director, they're the manager. And
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  Speaker 1: when they mess with processes, they're spending time in something
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  Speaker 1: they shouldn't. And again, they're slowing people down. Just wait.
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  Speaker 1: If you have a built-in evaluation mechanism, which we do
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  Speaker 1: in our culture, orchestrate, evaluate, as you said, You know
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  Speaker 1: there's going to be a time for evaluation. And unless
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  Speaker 1: you think it's just going to be an unmitigated disaster,
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  Speaker 1: which is rarely, you just wait, evaluate on the back end,
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  Speaker 1: trust your people in the meantime, but don't get involved
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  Speaker 1: in processes. Because generally speaking, again, the people who are
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  Speaker 1: involved with the processes are better at those particular processes.
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  Speaker 3: That is so good because we– accidentally become big mess
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  Speaker 3: makers when we.
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  Speaker 2: Get in the middle of the process.
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  Speaker 1: We're in the way. And because we have authority, nobody's
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  Speaker 1: going to tell us, hey, unless you have, I should
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  Speaker 1: say nobody. There are people who work with me that
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  Speaker 1: would say, Andy, there's the door. Just let us handle that.
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  Speaker 1: And in fact, maybe we'll tell a story later about
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  Speaker 1: Diane saying, in fact, we talked about it last time.
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  Speaker 1: She said, give me your calendar. Your involvement in your
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: calendar is a process you don't need to be involved
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  Speaker 1: in Trust me with the calendar. So anyway, we talked
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  Speaker 1: about that.
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  Speaker 2: That's so true.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, another reason leaders don't play to their strengths is
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  Speaker 3: that they never really even discovered them. So there's this
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  Speaker 3: whole lack of awareness thing that all of us have.
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  Speaker 2: None of us see ourselves completely as we are.
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  Speaker 3: And sometimes we actually enjoy doing the work that we're
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  Speaker 3: really not that good at. And people are hesitant to
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  Speaker 3: tell us that. So it's our job to become more aware.
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  Speaker 2: How can we as leaders, how can we recognize when
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  Speaker 2: that's happening? And then become willing to shift.
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  Speaker 1: Well, again, I think we've mentioned this before. With all
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  Speaker 1: the tools that are available, there's really not an excuse
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  Speaker 1: for leaders not to know what their strengths are. So
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  Speaker 1: this is actually, this isn't an add-on. This is a responsibility.
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  Speaker 1: And when leaders don't know their strengths, again, because our
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  Speaker 1: words are so weighty, because we carry so much authority,
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  Speaker 1: this is, again, sort of a second reason why we
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  Speaker 1: venture away from this only do what only you can do,
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  Speaker 1: because we aren't really aware of the things that that
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  Speaker 1: we're best at. So here's what I wrote in my notes.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, in the book, at the end of this chapter,
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  Speaker 1: I actually give some questions for readers to ask themselves
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  Speaker 1: to help them begin the process of figuring out what
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  Speaker 1: is my lane, what is my lane? And this is
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  Speaker 1: industry specific, it's job description specific. So while there's an
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  Speaker 1: inherent or talent or gifting that everybody has, matching that
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  Speaker 1: up or getting that in sync with the specific role
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  Speaker 1: a person's in is so important, but it makes them
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  Speaker 1: better at what they do. So here are a couple
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  Speaker 1: of questions I wrote in the book at the end
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  Speaker 1: of this chapter. What do you do that is almost
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  Speaker 1: effortless from your perspective but seems like a daunting task
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  Speaker 1: to other people? That's one of the most important questions
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  Speaker 1: you can ask because when something is simple for me
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  Speaker 1: and you watch other people struggle with it and you're thinking,
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  Speaker 1: that's not all. Yeah, excuse me. Let me do that. Well,
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  Speaker 1: that means you have some intuition, which, of course, we're
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  Speaker 1: going to talk about. It also means you have some
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  Speaker 1: experience and some expertise and some giftedness. So what do
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  Speaker 1: you do that is almost seems almost effortless from your perspective,
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  Speaker 1: but seems like a daunting task to others? And then
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  Speaker 1: the other question to ask, and this is why the
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  Speaker 1: job specific industry specific part of this is so important,
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  Speaker 1: is what facets of your job energize you and what
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  Speaker 1: do you wish you could stop doing? Right. Again, and
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  Speaker 1: because we're high responsibility people, it's difficult for us sometimes
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  Speaker 1: to admit, you know what? I just don't want to
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  Speaker 1: do that anymore. I'm responsible for it, but I don't
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  Speaker 1: look forward to it. I hate it when I see
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  Speaker 1: that on my calendar. I need to give that away. Well,
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  Speaker 1: or I'd like to give that away. Well, chances are
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  Speaker 1: you should give it away because somebody else is going
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  Speaker 1: to be better anyway. And again, it diminishes our energy.
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  Speaker 1: So I think you've noticed this. On my desk or
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  Speaker 1: my conference room table where I meet with staff, I
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  Speaker 1: have a little laminated card and it has five questions.
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  Speaker 1: And these five questions are questions. I don't go through
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  Speaker 1: all five questions every time I have a one on one.
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  Speaker 1: But every once in a while in a one on one,
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  Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just pick a question and say, hey,
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  Speaker 1: just let's get off the agenda for a second. I
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  Speaker 1: want to know what's going on inside. So one of
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  Speaker 1: the questions is this. What do you wish you could
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  Speaker 1: spend more time on? What do you wish you could
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  Speaker 1: spend more time on? So when I surprise an employee
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  Speaker 1: or in a one-on-one to say, hey, we finished all that.
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  Speaker 1: Just in general, what do you wish you could spend
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  Speaker 1: more time on? That's a cue as to what a
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: person's wiring is or their encoding is to quote Jim Collins.
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  Speaker 1: And again, discovering those things as soon as possible, again,
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  Speaker 1: gives us permission to say no, to have a not
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  Speaker 1: to do anymore list and to focus on our strengths.
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  Speaker 1: But the main thing is, If we don't know what
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  Speaker 1: they are, we won't focus on them. We'll get outside
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  Speaker 1: of our encoding, outside of our strengths. And again, we interfere.
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  Speaker 1: and we're not working as efficiently as we could. And
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  Speaker 1: then that goes back to what we talked about last time.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that question. I feel like you've asked
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  Speaker 3: me that in a one-on-one before. And what is helpful
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  Speaker 3: is the pop quiz nature of it. It makes you
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  Speaker 3: just answer what comes to your head, which means that's
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  Speaker 3: what you really want to be doing. That's where you
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  Speaker 3: find energy and joy and chances are add value to
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  Speaker 3: the organization.
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  Speaker 1: And if I want the folks who report to me
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  Speaker 1: to be in their zone that I need to know that,
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  Speaker 1: whether I can change their job description instantly or not,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: but find out that somebody's interested. Funny story about that.
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  Speaker 1: Years ago, I'm meeting with five of our campus pastors
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  Speaker 1: in the Atlanta area. And these guys are, you know,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: maybe 20 years younger than me. And I'm just asking
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  Speaker 1: them random questions. And I said, so I said, here's
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: a question. If you could do anything, you know, it's just,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the pop quiz. If you could do anything,
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  Speaker 1: what would you do? And immediately, to my left, and
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: you know this gentleman, he immediately said, I think before
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  Speaker 1: he thought, he said, I want your job.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I knew you were going to say somebody said that.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want your job. I'm like, and that wasn't threatening.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Now I know what he wants to do. So again,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the nature of those questions allows things to surface that
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: maybe we don't feel like we have permission for them
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to surface. But it's important personally. And again, it's important
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: for the people who report to us.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's important because it is our job to
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: discover questions. our strengths, and then we have to redeploy ourselves.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: We have to have the discipline to kind of put
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: us back in.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Our area of strength. So in the book, I love
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: the story.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: You tell a story and you say, you enjoy interviewing,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: but somebody kindly let you know that you're not.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Really that good at it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: And which was, yeah, well, it seemed like it.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: It's a kind person. I know her.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So you want me to tell that story? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: this is a good example. So this is way back
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: when we first started. We were just putting together a team.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I forget. We may have had 20 employees at the time. Currently,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: we have like a little over 500. So my assistant,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: administrative assistant, Diane Grant, who shows up in this book
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: all over the place appropriately. So she her background was interviewing.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: She worked for a medical sales company and part of
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: her job was to interview. So she she knew how
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: to interview people. So she would sit in with me
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: when I was interviewing folks to come work for us.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And after I don't know how many of these torture
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: sessions I put her through, because I have no expertise,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: no training. So finally, one day she said, can I
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: talk to you about this? I'm like, yeah, yeah. Because
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I thought I was doing a great job. She said,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you're not interviewing these folks. You're really doing more recruiting
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: than interviewing. And I'm like, what's the difference? She's like, well,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: recruiting is you're trying to get people. They already want
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to work here. By the time they have an interview
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: with you, they've already been there. And I knew they'd
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: already been through several interviews. She says, you're recruiting, not interviewing.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I never thought about that. And then
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: she began to talk about all these questions you're supposed
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: to ask. I mean, she had this amazing metric for interviewing.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: And finally I said, okay, I have an idea. You
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: do it. You enjoy it. I'm terrible. Now I could
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: spend a lot of time trying to get better and
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: everybody can get better at anything, but I'm like, I'm
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: sitting here with an expert. Why would I not hand
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: that off? So from that day forward, I meet the
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: people we are about to hire. I don't recruit and
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I don't interview. I basically just get to know them,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: sort of the final sign off. But again, fortunately, I
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: had somebody working with me that said, Andy, as you
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: said politely, you're not good at this. I am good
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: at this. You could get better at this, but maybe
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: you should just let me do this. That's a win.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: That's a game changer. Well, She's so good at it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I don't hire anybody without them going through dieting because
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: she's just so good.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, here's a third obstacle that leaders have when they're
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: trying to play to their strengths, and it's their failure
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: to develop other leaders.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: And they don't.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Prioritize it, maybe because it's just never urgent. I've been
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: in this organization 15 years, and so I've talked about
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: this before.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I always do a hand motion towards the cube.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: There's a cube that sits on my desk, a wooden cube,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: and it has six staff behaviors engraved And all those behaviors,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: they've really been embedded in the DNA of our organization.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: And there's one of them that really stands out for
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: this conversation. It's replace yourself. Replace yourself. And I've heard
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: you say this. Replace yourself and you will always have
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: a place. So in other words, our job is to
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: work ourselves out of a job, which that can sound
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: scary to somebody because you probably like your job, but
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: your job is to make room for the next people.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: and to replace yourself. So why is that so necessary
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: to becoming great?
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So a little context, in a growing organization, if
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: you replace yourself, you'll always have a place because how many,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's sort of like in a sales organization,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: how many great salespeople can you afford? All of them, right?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, if somebody is going to multiply sales, can
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: you really have too many? So when you think about
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a leader who is committed to replacing themselves within the organization,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: if it's a growing organization, I mean, that's like a
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: triple win. So this is one of our staff behaviors.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Replace yourself. Look over your shoulder. Who has the potential
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: to take your place and develop them. We're not asking
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: you to develop 10 people or eight people or four people,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: but there ought to be somebody in your realm of
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: influence that you think has the potential to ultimately step
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: in and take your place. What I wrote in my
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: notes is, and here's kind of the pushback to this,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and for founders in particular, when you start an organization,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: it's both natural and I guess necessary to to do everything.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: It's necessary because there's nobody else to do it. And
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: it's natural because you're trying to set the standards, set
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the pace, set the culture, culture being this is how
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: we do it here. But if you stay in that
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: role too long, you immediately become the lid to the
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: growth of the organization. So while it's natural and necessary
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: in the early years, it's absolutely essential that as soon
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: as possible, leaders begin handing off more and more responsibility.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: And that is leadership development. And you can comment on this, Holly,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: but I think sometimes when leaders hear about leadership development,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: they think, oh, I got to have a class and
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I got a lecture and I have an outline and
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: we have to have homework assignments. And it's like, I
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: do not have. OK, that's not really how leaders are developed.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Leaders are. It's simpler than that. It's giving somebody responsibility
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: for something. Hands off. Let them do it. Check back in. evaluate,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: let them do it again. It really goes back to
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: orchestrate and evaluate as it relates to leadership development. And
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: to the degree that we're willing, and it goes back
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: to staying in our lane, is to the degree that
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: we're willing to let go, give people actual responsibility and
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: not just abandon them and hope it works out, but
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: essentially actually delegate, which means you check in. That's really
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: what leadership development is. And everybody in just about any
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: organization has the potential to to invest in at least
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: one other person with the hopes that maybe they have
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the potential to either take your place in this organization
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: or one day leave and do something in another organization.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I'm, because we've been
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: doing this for 31 years, one of the things that
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I love, and we just saw an example of this
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: at the Global Leadership Summit, I am thrilled by the
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: fact that so many people that have come into this,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm going to say? Yes, yes, I
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: saw it. developed some skills, found their lane in terms
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: of especially production, video editing, all kinds of things. Then essentially,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: in many cases, left our organization and went on to
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: do other things in other organizations that we continue to
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: work with. So there's a sense in which it is
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: okay to work to replace yourself within the organization. But
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: if they don't stay in the organization to celebrate that,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: because for the rest of their career, You've had, you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: you've you've had input. And that goes back to one
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: of our other other things on the cube. Six staff
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: behaviors is to remain open handed, remain open handed. But
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: bottom line is leaders will be dragged out of their
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: lane if they're not developing other leaders and multiplying themselves.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And every leader has the potential to do that if
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: they're secure enough not to worry that somebody is going
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: to be better than them. and if they're really committed
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: to the health of the organization.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Well, this is such an important one.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: First, it does take security because you're always going to
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: wobble at first when you give some responsibility away of
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: what if they do it better or what if I'm
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: not needed. But you create multipliers, which is what leadership
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: is all about. And I remember when you handed me
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: this role, it was like, okay, you lead all the staff,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: which means you do all the staff meetings, like get
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: up there and figure it out.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And I did. And But there's only one way to grow, really.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: It's all the way just pushing yourself through it when
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: you're not really quite ready.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Well, and being open to evaluation and asking questions. And
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: we had conversations along the way. So one of the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: things I wrote and you just touched on is that
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: great leaders multiply their efforts by multiplying leaders, which multiplies results.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And in a growing organization or to have a growing
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: or growing organization, you have to have that. And again,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: leadership development is not a class thing. It's not a lecture.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It's not a curriculum. I mean, those things are great.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: It's a go and do.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: It's a go and do and come back and tell
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: me how it went or I'll tell you how it went.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Exactly. I'll give you some feedback.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Okay. So we're distinguishing between a couple of things. We're
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: going to distinguish between our authority and competence. We're going
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: to hone in our self-awareness and we're going to develop
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: other leaders. And then you say, if you start operating
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: like this, that there's an unintended outcome.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: And it's a really good one.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: It's that we're going to have less unhealthy stress, which,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: yay for less stress.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: We all want that. So unpack that for us a
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So again, this is the common sense part. This
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: isn't the, oh, what an amazing insight. But it's what
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: we forget. And it reiterates why this whole conversation is
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: so important. When we're working in our zone, when we're
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: working in the area where It just flows. The time
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: flies by. You want more to do of it than
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: less to do. If somebody were to say, hey, what
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: do you wish you could spend more time on? You
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: would say this. This is what I want to spend
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: more time on. When we're in that zone, we experience
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: far less stress. In fact, when you're doing what you
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: were born or created to do, it energizes rather than
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: depletes your energy. And imagine an organization where the majority
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: of employees are able to give 70% or 80% of
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: their energy or time to that, well, they're in a
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: better mood. They're more energized. When they go home, there's
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: energy as opposed to, oh, no, tomorrow's Thursday, just one
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: more day. So again, to go the distance as a leader,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: especially staying in that place creates more energy, creates more passion.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: And as one of my mentors told me years ago,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: and this was helpful to me because I wasn't applying
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: it at the time. He said, the best thing you
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: can bring to your team is your energy. And the
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: only way to stay energized is to be in the
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: zone that brings me energy. So I'm responsible for finding
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: that place for me, but I'm also responsible for finding
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: that place for the other folks in our organization. And
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: then you've got everybody rowing in the same direction with
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the same amount of energy and You know, regardless of
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: what kind of company you're in or industry you're in,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that's just a good thing.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's what we want. That's what the people
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: that work for us want. They want to be in
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: their zone. That was one of my favorite things that
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: you said because the work actually becomes the reward.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Which that's so– everybody wants that to be their day job.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I laughed when I read this.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: You say, my counseling skills compete for last place with
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: my interviewing skills.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: For similar reasons. I was a good advisor. I was
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: a terrible counselor. counselor.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Yes. When I would see counseling on my schedule, but.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I can't even imagine you doing that now that I've
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: known you.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Well, I was terrible at it. But again, this goes back,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: when you first start off, it's natural and necessary to
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: do everything. And in those days, it was necessary for
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: me to do premarital counseling, all kinds of counseling, because
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I'm the pastor and that's what pastors do. Literally, if
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it's two days later, I look at my calendar and
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: it's Monday and on Wednesday, I'm like, I'm already sad
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: because it would deplete my energy even before I got
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to it. And it's not that it's not important. It's
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: extraordinarily important. And fortunately, we have a network of people
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: who can't wait to sit down and just listen to
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the same things over and over because counselors are great listeners.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: They are.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I was an advisor. I didn't want to listen. you know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: 10 minutes in, it's like, okay, got it, got it.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Because there's only three problems. I've identified which one is yours.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Then I start talking, right? So I was terrible. So
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: it depleted my energy and I was no good at it.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And again, it's a good example of finally handing off
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: something that, again, put me back where I needed to be.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: And I, you know, I lost something that sapped my energy. Again,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: for a while, those things are necessary, but you can't
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: live there or you just start, you just start hating life. Yeah.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Well, that's so important because we want to have a
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: sustainable pace.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Like part of finishing well, part of being great is
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: being able to sustain your pace and stay in your lane.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: And just like you didn't do counseling, we now have
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: this huge department that does counseling.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: A network of counselors.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It services so.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Many people, which the organization scaled because you stayed in
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: your lane. So a sustainable pace and scaling the organization.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: That's just winning right there.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: And again, it goes back to the organization is well-balanced,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: but I'm not. I just have my two or three things,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: like most leaders do. Okay.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: There's an important exception to all of this.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: You say that sometimes people need to step outside of
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: their zone or outside of their strength, and you call
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: it symbolic leadership. Yeah.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: So how is that different from just getting back in
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: the way?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Okay. And this does seem like a contradiction in terms.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: But I... went deep on this. I tell a wonderful
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: story about my dad I won't go into today where
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: he modeled this so well. And here's the idea of
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: symbolic leadership. Symbolic leadership is I'm going to intentionally move
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: out of what I know my lane is in order
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: to support someone else in the organization who needs some
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: either extra help Or as a way of saying what
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: you are doing is so important, I want to come
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: help you or I want to come work for you.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: And when you step out of the zone to work
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: with another department or another division in an area where
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: they know this isn't your thing, you know this isn't
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: your thing. So you're the boss. You tell me what
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you need me to do. And what that says is
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: it just reminds teams what you're doing is so important.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: It is worth my time. to help you. But here's
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: the key, and this is important. It's temporary and it's strategic.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: It's temporary and it's strategic. You don't stay there, or again,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: you work against the very thing we've talked about, but
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: it's strategic. You look for those opportunities in a crunch time,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the busy times, when somebody's out for a while, you say, look,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: let me step in and help with it. Oh, no, no, no, no.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I want to do that because what you're doing is important.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: What your department's doing is important. I'm not going to
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: be great at it, but just tell me what to do.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Let me do. But it's temporary and it's strategic. And
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: it goes back to really what, you know, sort of
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: a life mantra for me is, you know, is do
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: for one what you wish you could do for everyone.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Do for one what you wish you could do for everyone.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Can't do it for every department. Can't do it for everybody,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: but I can do it for you. It's a strategic
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: time to do it. And then I'm going to get
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: out of your way because you know what you're doing.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: So when leaders look for those opportunities and Again, I
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: go deep on this in the book until this lunch
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: lady illustration I won't bore you with today. But what
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: we have to resist as leaders is this idea that
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: if I do it for one, I have to do
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: it for everyone. That is absolutely not true. In fact,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: doing it for one, when people in your organization know
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you can't do it for everyone, that is symbolic leadership.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: So we need to look for those opportunities, take those opportunities,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: but spend the majority of our time doing what only
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: we can do.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love the temporary and strategic because you give
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: yourself permission. I'm not staying here long. I'm just doing
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: this for a moment. In fact, in a meeting last.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Week, I saw you tell somebody who's just taken a
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: major arm of our organization over to keep this idea
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: of do for one what you wish you could do
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: for everyone front and center in his leadership. And what
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: struck me as you were sharing that advice, Tim, is
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: it is for that person, but it's just as much
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: for us because we stay connected and in tune.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And human with what people are really going through.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: And so I think that's, I wish every organization had
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: that because that just makes it a better place to
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: work when we can relate to people.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: And those stories, and you don't do it for this reason,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: but when a leader steps out of their place to
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: do these kinds of things, this is why the story
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: about my dad is so powerful. Eventually, many people, maybe
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: everyone in the organization hears about it because people tell
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: those stories. It's like, oh, she came down here. Oh,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I saw her. It's like, really? It's like, yeah. Oh, again,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: it's not about self-importance. It's about, no, it's showing value
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: for what everybody in the organization does. Because when you've
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: hired well, there are no non-essential personnel. There are no
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: non-essential personnel. So every single person in the organization, and
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this in a few weeks,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: is essential. Consequently, anything I can do to help somebody
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: who's essential, it's essential to the organization, but it's temporary
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and strategic.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: That's so good.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: So as we wrap up essential number two, playing to
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: our strengths, you give some questions, you talk about them
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: during the book, your listeners should pick up a copy
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: for that. But for everybody listening or watching right now,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I want you to give them a homework assignment this week.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: What charge would you give to our listeners?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Good question. So because your fully exploited strengths are of
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: far greater value to your organization than your marginally improved weaknesses,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: because as we've talked about, a weakness is always going
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: to be a weakness. Because of that, you should do
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: whatever it takes to discover your strengths. And while there
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: are tools to help you do that, you can actually
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: fast track the process this week by processing this content
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: with some of the people in your organization, the people
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: you work most closely with, because they know what your
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: strengths are. And hopefully, You've created a culture where they
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: feel free to let you know. So here's my suggestion.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Here's your homework. Begin with these two questions. First question,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: say to them as a group or maybe to an individual,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: if you control my calendar, if you control my calendar,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: what would you schedule more time for me to do?
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: In other words, what do they wish you would give
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: more of your focus to as it relates to the organization?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Second question, and you can't bristle, okay? Ask them this.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Where do I get in the way? Where do I
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: get in, or maybe ask it this way, where do
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I get in your way? Again, they know, and hopefully
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: they will tell you. For those of us in leadership,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: especially organizational leadership, what we don't know can hurt us,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and ultimately it can hurt our entire organizations.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Those are powerful questions, which is a perfect segue to
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: what we're going to talk about next time. We're going
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: to talk about how great leaders ask great questions. I'm
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: looking forward to that. And thank you so much for
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: joining us. Before you go, take a minute to subscribe
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: wherever you access this content. By subscribing, you help us
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: grow the audience, which allows us to keep bringing you
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: great content to help you go further faster. And be
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: sure to visit andystanley.com where you can download the Leadership
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: Podcast Application Guide. That's going to include a summary of
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: this episode, plus some questions for reflection or group discussion.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: And we will see you right here next time on
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.