Latest / Deep Tech Germany – AI, Robotics & Frontier Innovation by Startuprad.io™ / Voice AI Agents for the Skilled Trades: Inside PlanCraft
Transcript
- WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.600 We start with the hook Madhu. If you're building a SaaS for 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:07.360 traditional industries, you know the challenges. Customers 3 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.120 are busy doing the real work, not sitting in front of screens. 4 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:14.560 Julian Videnhuis, CEO and co founder of 5 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:18.640 PlanCraft in English PlanCraft turned that reality 6 00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:22.320 into opportunity. From a family carpentry shop 7 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:26.120 to 38 million Series B funding, Planecraft is 8 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:29.540 now transforming how Europe's craftsmen run their businesses 9 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:33.300 using AI agents, voice control and human 10 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:37.060 centered design. Today we unpack how you 11 00:00:37.060 --> 00:00:40.740 scale a startup that makes real work more human. 12 00:00:46.580 --> 00:00:49.620 Welcome to Startuprad IO, 13 00:00:50.260 --> 00:00:53.780 your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German 14 00:00:53.780 --> 00:00:57.380 startup scene with news, interviews and 15 00:00:57.540 --> 00:00:58.740 live events. 16 00:01:01.140 --> 00:01:04.540 Today we're joined by Julian Videnhuis, CEO and co 17 00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:08.180 founder of Plancraft in English Plancraft 18 00:01:08.340 --> 00:01:11.740 one of Europe's fastest growing SaaS startups of the 19 00:01:11.740 --> 00:01:15.020 trades, Plancraft began with a simple 20 00:01:15.020 --> 00:01:18.700 insight. Most craftsmen don't need more 21 00:01:18.700 --> 00:01:22.220 paperwork, they need more time for the work that 22 00:01:22.220 --> 00:01:26.020 matters. Under Julian's leadership, the Hamburg based startup 23 00:01:26.020 --> 00:01:29.400 crew from a student project to pan European 24 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.480 platform serving more than 20,000 25 00:01:32.880 --> 00:01:36.560 businesses backed by top investors like Headline 26 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:40.280 Creatum and the high tech Grunder from hdgf. Log 27 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:43.200 into the interview of the former CEO to learn more about them. 28 00:01:43.600 --> 00:01:46.480 Recognized by Welt Virtual and frz, 29 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:50.240 Julian's vision fuses AI simplicity, 30 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:54.210 human empathy. Moving that technology can 31 00:01:54.210 --> 00:01:57.530 empower even the most traditional industries. Julian 32 00:01:57.610 --> 00:02:01.290 Moin and welcome to Startupgrade IO. Thanks for having me. 33 00:02:01.370 --> 00:02:05.130 Great to see you. Great to talk only my pleasure. Let us 34 00:02:05.130 --> 00:02:07.850 directly jump in with the question. 35 00:02:09.290 --> 00:02:13.050 Take us back to the first moment of 36 00:02:13.050 --> 00:02:16.650 your co founder's carpentry shop. What problem 37 00:02:16.650 --> 00:02:20.160 did you see that none of the existing 38 00:02:20.160 --> 00:02:22.480 software solutions did solve? 39 00:02:23.760 --> 00:02:26.800 So you gotta imagine that was in 2018 40 00:02:27.440 --> 00:02:31.240 somewhere. May, June, weather turned great when 41 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:35.040 the business kind of starts to flourish and then there is just a shit 42 00:02:35.040 --> 00:02:38.320 ton of work to do for those folks in the carpentry and in any other 43 00:02:38.320 --> 00:02:41.840 craft as well. And so we've been visiting 44 00:02:41.920 --> 00:02:45.630 because they've changed the software, wanted to of course improve 45 00:02:45.950 --> 00:02:49.470 a lot of things mainly to speed up of course and get more 46 00:02:49.470 --> 00:02:53.110 freedom but secondly also to better connect construction 47 00:02:53.110 --> 00:02:56.910 sites and the office. And so in this carpentry, like roughly 48 00:02:56.910 --> 00:03:00.710 20 folks, 20 employees in that, in that crew, we've 49 00:03:00.710 --> 00:03:04.390 seen the hectic everyday life and I 50 00:03:04.390 --> 00:03:07.990 think what existing players, mostly 51 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.830 on premise tools back then there was no other cloud solution available, 52 00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:14.900 did not see or maybe didn't want to see, is that they had good business 53 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:18.580 running. You know, they had a product they could sell for a 54 00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:21.460 lifetime license and then they were selling Additional 55 00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:25.780 packages such as maintenance contracts and 56 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:28.660 service contracts, and partially even evolving, including 57 00:03:29.460 --> 00:03:33.060 updates. And that was going okay and people were 58 00:03:33.700 --> 00:03:37.060 at least not happy with it, but it was working because there was no other 59 00:03:37.060 --> 00:03:40.380 solution at hand. And I think while this business 60 00:03:41.100 --> 00:03:44.540 kept being eligible, nobody really 61 00:03:45.020 --> 00:03:48.700 dared to fully innovate and fully set on cloud. And I 62 00:03:48.700 --> 00:03:52.420 guess what then of course changed was that we been growing 63 00:03:52.420 --> 00:03:56.180 up with Spotify, Netflix and Amazon, and then you don't want to have that, you 64 00:03:56.180 --> 00:03:59.500 don't want to have that run on your local computer, on your local machine. 65 00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:03.260 And we just wanted to bring that freedom and that ease of use 66 00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:07.070 to software for the carpentry because we just saw 67 00:04:07.390 --> 00:04:11.230 insanely much was happening in their everyday lives, but 68 00:04:11.230 --> 00:04:14.030 not what was really kind of moving the needle for them. 69 00:04:15.310 --> 00:04:19.030 Plus what I also have in mind, because there will be breaks 70 00:04:19.030 --> 00:04:22.870 from time to time for the carpentry work that they can or cannot do at 71 00:04:22.870 --> 00:04:26.510 this point. And basically when they do have a SaaS solution, a 72 00:04:26.510 --> 00:04:30.230 cloud solution, they can just simply pull out their tablet, the laptop and 73 00:04:30.230 --> 00:04:33.660 start working, which doesn't necessarily work with on 74 00:04:33.660 --> 00:04:37.460 premise tools. Before plancraft, most craft 75 00:04:37.460 --> 00:04:41.300 businesses used, for example Word and Excel. Where 76 00:04:41.300 --> 00:04:44.620 was the market so underserved? And what did you learn 77 00:04:44.860 --> 00:04:48.460 from observing like the real workflows in small workshops? 78 00:04:49.580 --> 00:04:53.100 So basically there were two paths to follow. If you have your own 79 00:04:53.420 --> 00:04:56.780 construction business, either you go with something that's basically for free, 80 00:04:57.020 --> 00:05:00.760 or in Excel, nothing, you got to kind of pay additionally and 81 00:05:00.760 --> 00:05:04.440 you can just use it. Of course it's not meant to be your enterprise 82 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:08.560 resource planning system. So no ERP or the other way was 83 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.400 you go with any of the existing on prem tools, pay a couple 84 00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:16.040 of thousand for a lifetime kind of license for you to 85 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:19.480 use that software, and then you have a couple of hundreds of 86 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:23.280 euros per year, partially per month to keep it up and running. And of course 87 00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:27.010 there is a gap in between where companies can either afford for 88 00:05:27.010 --> 00:05:30.730 this very expensive tool or they go for Word Excel. 89 00:05:30.970 --> 00:05:34.490 And so what we basically did was we filled that gap with 90 00:05:35.050 --> 00:05:38.770 SSAs typical business model, you gotta pay monthly or in yearly 91 00:05:38.770 --> 00:05:42.450 advance and then you're gonna just have that SaaS 92 00:05:42.450 --> 00:05:45.690 fee instead of having those even bigger investments 93 00:05:46.010 --> 00:05:49.730 or nothing to use. And so this is kind of still valid 94 00:05:49.730 --> 00:05:53.520 until this day that we try to, yeah, go with good options 95 00:05:53.520 --> 00:05:56.200 for clients that they can actually finance. 96 00:05:57.880 --> 00:06:01.720 When somebody starts a company with a 97 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:05.520 vision, you somewhere have in the back of 98 00:06:05.520 --> 00:06:09.080 my mind, one day I want to. What was your one day 99 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:13.400 catalytic moment like 100 00:06:13.640 --> 00:06:17.330 the point where you realize this needs to Be startup, not just 101 00:06:17.330 --> 00:06:20.690 a project. So 102 00:06:21.250 --> 00:06:24.450 while we were doing our interviews after that 103 00:06:24.450 --> 00:06:28.170 carpentry and after every interview we 104 00:06:28.170 --> 00:06:31.410 came kind of out of it saying gosh, 105 00:06:31.570 --> 00:06:34.850 there's just so much we could do. 106 00:06:36.210 --> 00:06:39.850 And kind of it was more of a where's the 107 00:06:39.850 --> 00:06:43.460 end? What's kind of the scope we can actually work on always? 108 00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:47.300 Rather than the okay, is there anything we could actually do? So 109 00:06:47.540 --> 00:06:50.180 after seeing the carpentry, it was already clear that there's 110 00:06:51.140 --> 00:06:54.860 definitely the chance for opening a business. It was just a question 111 00:06:54.860 --> 00:06:58.260 of what's that business, how big can it be 112 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:02.540 and what do we want to do and where do we kind of feel 113 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:06.180 it has value and we love to do it and form a team around. 114 00:07:06.340 --> 00:07:10.170 So yeah, it really started when that first, first time when 115 00:07:10.170 --> 00:07:13.850 we've been in the back office, at least for me, and then after every 116 00:07:13.850 --> 00:07:17.170 other interview that we did to understand is it just the carpentry? If it's just 117 00:07:17.170 --> 00:07:20.850 this one carpentry or if it's any other carpentry we might pick. 118 00:07:21.650 --> 00:07:24.930 And yeah, it confirmed more and more and over time. So 119 00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:29.090 this was kind of basically building. Up the trades in, 120 00:07:29.090 --> 00:07:32.890 in Germany you, I know like 80% of our 121 00:07:32.890 --> 00:07:36.610 audience is from the Dach area and they know that you can 122 00:07:36.610 --> 00:07:39.810 really learn the trades in a two year, three year apprenticeship, 123 00:07:41.700 --> 00:07:45.220 but you really have to learn it. But the trade sector nonetheless 124 00:07:45.220 --> 00:07:48.940 faces massive headwinds like the skill shortages because 125 00:07:48.940 --> 00:07:52.580 you have to train like people two, three years, then they are 126 00:07:52.900 --> 00:07:56.180 like real apprentices and then they learn more and more. 127 00:07:56.820 --> 00:07:59.540 So there's a skill shortage because you cannot like 128 00:08:00.820 --> 00:08:04.660 staff all the vacancies, the climate mandates 129 00:08:04.660 --> 00:08:08.380 and biocracy. How did you decide 130 00:08:08.380 --> 00:08:10.980 where Plancraft could make the biggest impact? 131 00:08:13.310 --> 00:08:16.830 So in that sense, kind of we've, we've seen the companies 132 00:08:16.990 --> 00:08:20.670 and just figured okay, we do 133 00:08:20.670 --> 00:08:24.510 already have some people working in the trades even though of course 134 00:08:24.510 --> 00:08:27.869 there's, there's a shortage and we need more of them. But 135 00:08:28.190 --> 00:08:31.870 just the imagination saying, okay, if the ones that we have 136 00:08:32.350 --> 00:08:35.470 wouldn't spend their evenings and days 137 00:08:35.550 --> 00:08:39.210 unproductive and you know, loaded with stuff they 138 00:08:39.210 --> 00:08:42.890 shouldn't be doing or that just takes longer than it should, we could 139 00:08:42.890 --> 00:08:44.690 achieve already filings 140 00:08:46.610 --> 00:08:50.410 for example, way more like you gotta imagine usually like Saturday was always 141 00:08:50.410 --> 00:08:53.650 is a, is a construction day is like a work regular work day 142 00:08:54.130 --> 00:08:57.490 for most of them either to earn extra money on the site. 143 00:08:58.850 --> 00:09:02.650 And then Sunday is typically the kind of back office day by 144 00:09:02.650 --> 00:09:05.810 nature where you also do kind of everything that you just need to do legally 145 00:09:05.810 --> 00:09:09.500 as well, of course, partially Caring for invoices and 146 00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:13.340 quotes that just need to serve customers. Whereas 147 00:09:13.340 --> 00:09:17.020 in the evenings on a regular workday, there's terms just to 148 00:09:17.020 --> 00:09:20.620 try and bring order to chaos that the team is 149 00:09:20.620 --> 00:09:24.420 producing because they're not using any tool. And so just 150 00:09:24.420 --> 00:09:28.140 seeing that kind of we need to start in thinking, okay, how 151 00:09:28.140 --> 00:09:31.620 can we make them more efficient was kind of the starting point. And so we 152 00:09:31.620 --> 00:09:35.420 started with quotation and invoicing because we saw that 153 00:09:35.420 --> 00:09:39.060 was kind of the task that is taking up the most time 154 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:43.300 if it's spent in the office. So while in the office, which is generally 155 00:09:43.540 --> 00:09:47.060 not anything where you would create value for your customers because 156 00:09:47.060 --> 00:09:49.780 it's something that you need to do as overhead, purely 157 00:09:50.900 --> 00:09:54.340 what's the biggest part of it. And that was pretty clearly 158 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:58.020 invoicing and quotation. So we started with that topic. 159 00:09:59.430 --> 00:10:03.150 We may add for everybody who's not from the area that when you give a 160 00:10:03.150 --> 00:10:06.790 quote, there is a limited amount of what it can go 161 00:10:06.790 --> 00:10:10.590 up and down. So basically you have to nail the quote, otherwise you're 162 00:10:10.590 --> 00:10:14.429 working more than you get paid for. Let's talk 163 00:10:14.429 --> 00:10:17.990 a little bit about this. Quote calculator and product evolution. 164 00:10:18.390 --> 00:10:22.070 Going from a quote calculator to full business suit, 165 00:10:22.710 --> 00:10:25.950 what was the hardest pivot you made along the way? And 166 00:10:27.230 --> 00:10:30.990 when I was looking at your product, you do now cover a lot of 167 00:10:30.990 --> 00:10:34.510 common traits. But I was wondering, could for example, a 168 00:10:34.510 --> 00:10:37.070 dog groomer also use your tool? 169 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:42.870 So let me start at the front of the question. So I 170 00:10:42.870 --> 00:10:46.670 guess coming from this co calculator to the full business suite 171 00:10:46.670 --> 00:10:50.470 was quite the challenge to maintain ease of 172 00:10:50.470 --> 00:10:54.150 use and simplicity, which by nature means 173 00:10:54.150 --> 00:10:57.630 that you won't have a million buttons and a million functions because you just want 174 00:10:57.630 --> 00:11:01.310 to keep it lean and clean. And at the same time, as 175 00:11:01.310 --> 00:11:05.030 the core operating system of a company, you 176 00:11:05.030 --> 00:11:08.830 need to have a good amount of features to be actually 177 00:11:09.150 --> 00:11:12.830 the operating system. And so this is a challenge that is just 178 00:11:12.830 --> 00:11:16.550 inherited and kind of part of the problem we try to 179 00:11:16.550 --> 00:11:20.270 solve. And so it has taken us a good amount of 180 00:11:20.270 --> 00:11:23.710 time to always make sure that it's despite we're adding more 181 00:11:23.710 --> 00:11:27.310 depth and more width and features still 182 00:11:27.310 --> 00:11:31.070 doesn't overload the interface. And so I guess this was the biggest 183 00:11:31.070 --> 00:11:34.470 challenge. And when you, when you talk about pivots, 184 00:11:34.870 --> 00:11:38.710 I guess is there have been multiple points where we just realized, 185 00:11:38.710 --> 00:11:42.510 okay, let's not add another process that 186 00:11:42.510 --> 00:11:46.190 would kind of make sure that we can target another segment. You got to see 187 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:49.870 in the trades, of course, there's different segments by the trades. So 188 00:11:49.870 --> 00:11:53.490 there's construction companies there's carpentries, there's painters, roofers, 189 00:11:53.810 --> 00:11:57.490 solitaires, installers, electricians. So 190 00:11:57.730 --> 00:12:01.410 every of these types of business have a couple of things they would 191 00:12:01.410 --> 00:12:04.010 really want to have in the, in the tool and kind of we started on 192 00:12:04.010 --> 00:12:07.730 the carpentry with more of a project based companies 193 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:11.370 in mind and we had to say no to a lot of features that 194 00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:15.090 we found valuable and would be interesting to get into. 195 00:12:15.490 --> 00:12:18.680 Yeah, in conversations with other, other trades we were not 196 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:22.840 serving that well. So it's kind of a constant pivot 197 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.000 in the sense that we said no to new things that we would love to 198 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.760 do. And I guess now the biggest pivot is what we 199 00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:33.480 just kicked off a couple of months back when we said okay, 200 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.160 we want to rebuild in the way we think about a 201 00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:40.600 operating system for tradespeople with AI in mind. How is an 202 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:44.090 AI first solution looking like while 203 00:12:44.170 --> 00:12:47.530 having the still the range of features and processes that we cover 204 00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:51.450 but being used in the totally different way, more 205 00:12:51.450 --> 00:12:55.210 autonomous through agents, more driven through single interfaces 206 00:12:55.210 --> 00:12:58.330 and voice steering. And so I guess the biggest pivot is 207 00:12:58.810 --> 00:13:02.530 just ongoing. In our interview 208 00:13:02.530 --> 00:13:06.330 with Fonio AI also company they said 209 00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:10.330 we don't have right now a reset my password button 210 00:13:10.410 --> 00:13:14.090 because it was never requested by a client. Do you have like 211 00:13:14.090 --> 00:13:17.590 similar stringent rules you follow in order 212 00:13:17.590 --> 00:13:20.310 to achieve, not to overload 213 00:13:21.190 --> 00:13:24.710 with buttons, not to overload with features and what you 214 00:13:24.710 --> 00:13:28.390 drop and what you actually implement. So a 215 00:13:28.390 --> 00:13:32.190 nice example was in the early days the first thing that came 216 00:13:32.190 --> 00:13:35.630 to mind when we built like a contact list. So as your 217 00:13:35.630 --> 00:13:38.990 operation system you need to maintain clients and have a customer 218 00:13:38.990 --> 00:13:42.700 database. And so the kind of tech 219 00:13:42.860 --> 00:13:46.580 tech folks would always just go with okay, let's, let's build an API 220 00:13:46.580 --> 00:13:49.780 to Google Contacts and an Apple and just 221 00:13:49.780 --> 00:13:53.540 integrate the different solutions that there are because they must store their data 222 00:13:53.540 --> 00:13:56.700 there. And then talking to our clients, figuring out, okay, 223 00:13:57.500 --> 00:14:01.260 they mostly just have either Excel lists or 224 00:14:01.340 --> 00:14:04.780 none at all, maybe stored on their local iPhone or 225 00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:08.570 whatever so they can export this. We don't need to build an 226 00:14:08.570 --> 00:14:12.330 API to Google Context, for example, that is kind of 227 00:14:12.330 --> 00:14:16.050 maintained because we needed to step into the shoes of 228 00:14:16.050 --> 00:14:19.570 our clients at the same time. Of course we want to push also the 229 00:14:20.770 --> 00:14:24.530 kind of where the trades is today and that they use more of the tech 230 00:14:24.530 --> 00:14:28.210 available. But this was one example that I still under this 231 00:14:28.210 --> 00:14:31.850 day found very fascinating when thinking about is that we always 232 00:14:31.850 --> 00:14:34.890 need to remind ourselves okay, what's something that we would just love to see in 233 00:14:34.890 --> 00:14:38.410 that, in that product because we're, we're a tech company and what's something that our 234 00:14:38.410 --> 00:14:42.230 clients really need to have. When was researching for 235 00:14:42.230 --> 00:14:46.030 this interview, I saw you often say your mission is 236 00:14:46.030 --> 00:14:49.550 to create frantwerker, meaning free 237 00:14:49.710 --> 00:14:53.070 free time for craftsmen. How do you balance 238 00:14:53.470 --> 00:14:57.150 this automation with preserving the 239 00:14:57.150 --> 00:15:00.830 craft's human touch? I guess it's. 240 00:15:00.830 --> 00:15:04.190 It's nothing that goes in different directions. It's just a. It's just the same thing. 241 00:15:04.190 --> 00:15:07.900 Any. Anything where we can kind of create space which is how we would 242 00:15:07.900 --> 00:15:11.460 translate it. It's a means to give more 243 00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:14.940 human touch in the real world because they can spend their time 244 00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:18.820 whatever they. They gain kind of with whatever they feel is 245 00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:22.620 fruitful. So my biggest aha moment 246 00:15:22.780 --> 00:15:26.380 that we really make a difference for the lives of our clients was when 247 00:15:26.380 --> 00:15:30.060 I've seen a Instagram post of a client that was in a swimming 248 00:15:30.060 --> 00:15:33.800 pool and in the background you could see that kind of there was the pool 249 00:15:33.800 --> 00:15:37.440 and there was kids playing around and swimming and he was on 250 00:15:37.520 --> 00:15:40.800 a little table and had his iPad in front of him and 251 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:44.840 basically saying okay, now I can bring my 252 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:48.519 son to training because he has a swimming class and I can use 253 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:51.360 the time productively so we can spend the night together. 254 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.760 And seeing that was the perfect essence of okay. This 255 00:15:55.760 --> 00:15:59.500 is actual human touch. Not in his work but in his. In his private 256 00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:03.060 life. And it's all about giving this space to our 257 00:16:03.060 --> 00:16:06.820 clients. Julian, you scaled a 258 00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:10.580 tech company serving people who still work with their hands. There's 259 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:13.900 something deep, there's something deeply human in that 260 00:16:13.900 --> 00:16:17.620 contrast in the founders world. We'll explore how your 261 00:16:17.620 --> 00:16:21.460 daily meditation routine shapes how you lead 262 00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:25.220 through chaos. Find the link down here in the show notes. You can 263 00:16:25.220 --> 00:16:28.460 subscribe on substack or YouTube for this premium 264 00:16:28.460 --> 00:16:32.170 membership which only runs five bucks. 265 00:16:32.170 --> 00:16:35.650 Don't worry about it. Not that expensive. Julian, 266 00:16:35.730 --> 00:16:39.010 talk about culture. Culture can make or break 267 00:16:39.330 --> 00:16:41.570 scaling, especially between 268 00:16:43.250 --> 00:16:47.090 SEED and crsb, you 269 00:16:47.090 --> 00:16:47.410 said 270 00:16:51.010 --> 00:16:54.290 so which the person whose values don't align 271 00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:58.500 does not get hired. How do you keep that culture 272 00:16:59.060 --> 00:17:01.940 intact, especially when scaling across countries? 273 00:17:03.780 --> 00:17:07.380 So I guess first of all kind of it's the. It's the answer to 274 00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:10.420 questions. So making sure that people who don't align 275 00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:12.820 just won't make their way into this company. 276 00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:18.260 We do a pretty decent job of communicating what 277 00:17:18.260 --> 00:17:21.700 we stand for and what we want to see in people, which is 278 00:17:22.180 --> 00:17:25.800 that they are absolutely stoked about the thing that we're doing and 279 00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:29.280 we're building together, that they work together and they want to 280 00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:33.920 cooperate rather than have their individual success being 281 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.960 highlighted. And lastly being down to earth 282 00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:40.960 and so having those crystal clear Values 283 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.440 being shown to the outside world, being checked for in the hiring 284 00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:49.480 makes of course sure that there's kind of an 80% alignment 285 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.320 on that whenever somebody's joining the kind of the team. And 286 00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:57.080 then the second part to the answer is, of course, if you don't treat 287 00:17:57.080 --> 00:18:00.880 this with care and if you don't live this especially as the leadership team, 288 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.640 but everybody in the company, then it kind of washes down over time. 289 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:08.640 And so I think us as the former, 290 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.920 as the founders, as the C level, as the management team, but 291 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.120 just as true for every other person in the company. We need to 292 00:18:16.120 --> 00:18:19.280 remind ourselves and show this every day and live by this. 293 00:18:19.930 --> 00:18:22.810 And it's something that I think we do very, very well 294 00:18:24.010 --> 00:18:27.770 because we all together see that this is very, 295 00:18:27.770 --> 00:18:31.490 very important when it comes to maintaining the culture that 296 00:18:31.490 --> 00:18:34.330 we love and that we are happy to have 297 00:18:35.529 --> 00:18:38.810 talked about the. Culture that you have and your core values. Actually 298 00:18:39.210 --> 00:18:41.610 that was a little bit of a head scratcher for me. 299 00:18:42.810 --> 00:18:46.580 Bock Susannheit Buck is 300 00:18:46.580 --> 00:18:50.300 to have enthusiasm. And that took me quite a long time 301 00:18:50.300 --> 00:18:53.780 to nail that. That translation solidarity 302 00:18:53.860 --> 00:18:57.580 and is down to earth now. Especially since you're working 303 00:18:57.580 --> 00:19:01.300 with people who really still work with their hands. 304 00:19:02.660 --> 00:19:06.380 How do you recruit, especially internationally, you have to 305 00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:10.220 have a few people who understand what you want, what you do, what kind 306 00:19:10.220 --> 00:19:13.860 of people you're looking for. How do you get like those first people, the 307 00:19:13.860 --> 00:19:17.550 core from what you're growing? I think it's a 308 00:19:17.550 --> 00:19:20.710 general question like how do you interview for values? And 309 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:24.510 it's of course, situational questions where you have people 310 00:19:24.510 --> 00:19:28.310 describe how they've approached certain situations. 311 00:19:28.310 --> 00:19:31.750 It's not always only professional situations, but just anything that's 312 00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:35.310 important to them in life. And I always go with also with the question to 313 00:19:35.310 --> 00:19:38.790 understand, okay, what kind of shaped you as a person? 314 00:19:39.030 --> 00:19:42.310 What are other people that have shaped you and why and what's something that you 315 00:19:42.310 --> 00:19:46.160 find valuable? We asked the question of which is 316 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.880 the value of our three values that you align most with? 317 00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:53.840 Already checking. Okay, do they even know the three values that we stand for? Have 318 00:19:53.840 --> 00:19:57.400 they seen, have they checked it and then which one they they pick and why? 319 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.600 And then to just, yeah, trust the interview process 320 00:20:02.600 --> 00:20:06.440 of making sure that happens. And this is done first, right 321 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.290 away when kind of screening candidates and also at the very end, 322 00:20:10.770 --> 00:20:14.370 until this day, someone of the especially management 323 00:20:14.370 --> 00:20:17.490 team, but mostly even founders are still involved to make sure 324 00:20:18.050 --> 00:20:21.890 kind of that we check twice on this because this is the most precious 325 00:20:21.890 --> 00:20:25.410 thing that we have. Founders, if you're scaling a SaaS 326 00:20:25.730 --> 00:20:29.490 beyond your comfort zone Drop a comment. What's the biggest 327 00:20:29.490 --> 00:20:32.610 challenge? Culture, pricing or product market fit? 328 00:20:34.050 --> 00:20:37.170 Julian, you moved from 40 329 00:20:37.850 --> 00:20:41.450 to over 100 employees in a year. What system, 330 00:20:42.330 --> 00:20:46.170 what mental framework or idea helps you scale 331 00:20:47.210 --> 00:20:50.610 culture as well as headcount? So I think 332 00:20:50.610 --> 00:20:54.370 culture is something that only scales 333 00:20:54.370 --> 00:20:57.650 if you manage this well and actively. And I mean, we've just talked about it. 334 00:20:57.650 --> 00:21:00.650 That is something that we bake into everything that we do. 335 00:21:01.210 --> 00:21:04.900 And it's more about making 336 00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:09.140 culture kind of tangible, that people know what 337 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:12.980 it is and have this on their mind, because it's something that tends to be 338 00:21:12.980 --> 00:21:16.780 forgotten way too quick. So whenever we do okrs, such as 339 00:21:16.780 --> 00:21:20.420 goal setting, we partially even connect kind of. How do 340 00:21:20.420 --> 00:21:23.380 those fit into our framework of our values? 341 00:21:24.260 --> 00:21:27.980 I mean, we mostly, of course, use our values as the one thing 342 00:21:27.980 --> 00:21:31.700 that's super sharp and super concrete and easy to use. And culture is way 343 00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:35.060 more than that. Culture is everything that we do and mostly also the stuff that 344 00:21:35.060 --> 00:21:38.740 we are not aware of, that we're doing. This when 345 00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:42.060 it comes to kind of doing coffees and 346 00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:45.900 bringing something to your colleagues and the handshake that we have 347 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:49.540 and anything that's kind of making us special that we don't really feel 348 00:21:49.540 --> 00:21:53.380 and see it because it's normal for us, it's about highlighting those things 349 00:21:53.380 --> 00:21:57.060 and making sure they kind of are lived, reinforced. 350 00:21:57.060 --> 00:22:00.500 And this is something that happens from the team, but of course, mostly through the 351 00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:04.270 leadership. And having this leadership team in place 352 00:22:05.150 --> 00:22:08.790 when we've been the 40 to then even scale to cross 100 and not just 353 00:22:08.790 --> 00:22:12.470 throw people at a problem, but just really go in a structured way is just 354 00:22:12.470 --> 00:22:14.590 as important as scaling the culture. 355 00:22:17.310 --> 00:22:20.270 Let's take a little bit into your growth mechanics. 356 00:22:21.630 --> 00:22:25.310 You transitioned from a few early adopters, 357 00:22:26.030 --> 00:22:29.670 which usually on average include some relatives of 358 00:22:29.670 --> 00:22:33.390 friends, to really 20,000 paying customers. How did you do 359 00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:37.030 that? So this is the kind of the 360 00:22:37.030 --> 00:22:40.790 core question everybody would love to see. And if there would 361 00:22:40.790 --> 00:22:44.550 be an easy answer, everybody would do it. So it's a complex 362 00:22:44.550 --> 00:22:48.230 system of things that we've tried out and stuff. But for us, 363 00:22:48.230 --> 00:22:51.670 the most important channels have been, of course, having 364 00:22:52.230 --> 00:22:55.910 the best product in the market, at least from our perspective, because that will always, 365 00:22:56.760 --> 00:23:00.520 that will increase CVRs, that will drive referral, 366 00:23:00.760 --> 00:23:04.480 that will do anything kind of for you. And so having this product that we're 367 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.560 really, really obsessed with and trying to make sure that it's the best 368 00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:11.640 in doing the job of creating space is the core and most 369 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:15.320 crucial thing. And any you can have the best marketing, can have the best sales, 370 00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:18.640 it won't Last for long if your product shit. And so you need to care 371 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.800 about it very, very, very, very, very much. And 372 00:23:22.210 --> 00:23:25.930 besides that kind of always try to go with a rather 373 00:23:25.930 --> 00:23:29.650 product led approach where also the product is not only delivering value, but also 374 00:23:29.650 --> 00:23:33.290 easy to learn, easy to understand and something that especially in our 375 00:23:33.290 --> 00:23:36.930 target group was very, very crucial. And then again that drives really 376 00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:40.810 that we can win creators that we collaborate with and carry us out into world 377 00:23:40.810 --> 00:23:44.210 if we would, if we would be a shitty company that has a 378 00:23:44.370 --> 00:23:47.690 stupid culture nobody wants to work with and has a shitty product. You can, you 379 00:23:47.690 --> 00:23:51.490 cannot win, at least not for long creators. You cannot pay that 380 00:23:51.490 --> 00:23:55.170 much money that people will advertise shitty products. You cannot 381 00:23:55.170 --> 00:23:58.810 have word of mouth, which is something that is a core emotion for us. 382 00:23:58.810 --> 00:24:02.370 Of course we kind of subsidize in a way that we or 383 00:24:02.370 --> 00:24:06.050 incentivize our clients to do referrals. So we do work 384 00:24:06.050 --> 00:24:09.490 with, with Cello as one tool to kind of have them 385 00:24:09.490 --> 00:24:13.330 participate in the ARR they generate for us through referral. And 386 00:24:13.330 --> 00:24:16.780 so kind of it's a actual good relationship with the client saying 387 00:24:16.780 --> 00:24:20.620 okay, thank you and not here's like a $20Amazon voucher, 388 00:24:20.620 --> 00:24:24.300 but it's you, you can participate in the value you create 389 00:24:24.300 --> 00:24:27.780 by referring the product. And so I guess just layering these 390 00:24:27.860 --> 00:24:31.700 different motions and while connecting them to having a good, good product 391 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:35.980 is the one thing that really, yeah was always crucial and 392 00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:37.220 essential in making that happen. 393 00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:44.500 Guys, we'll be back right after a short break where Julian shares how 394 00:24:44.500 --> 00:24:48.100 plancraft's pricing model and product led 395 00:24:48.260 --> 00:24:51.460 growth strategy turned word of mouth into 396 00:24:51.860 --> 00:24:53.060 sustainable scale. 397 00:24:58.500 --> 00:25:01.860 Julian, welcome back. You mentioned pricing and 398 00:25:01.860 --> 00:25:05.540 ACV strategy in past interviews. How did you balance 399 00:25:05.780 --> 00:25:09.540 the affordability for small trades with predictable ARR 400 00:25:09.780 --> 00:25:13.000 for investors? So I guess it's not about 401 00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:16.440 AR for investors, but it's about AR for the company. 402 00:25:17.560 --> 00:25:20.840 But the one thing I always like to 403 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:24.760 take as a metaphor is kind of Robinhood. So we always try to focus on 404 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.520 having an affordable product for the very, very small ones of our 405 00:25:28.520 --> 00:25:32.360 customers and at the same time charging the 406 00:25:32.360 --> 00:25:34.840 prices the bigger clients can afford 407 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.410 for again, the bit bigger clients to just balance this off. 408 00:25:39.490 --> 00:25:43.210 And I guess having this in mind, we've of 409 00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:46.650 course are in a very, very nice situation of being an 410 00:25:46.650 --> 00:25:50.210 invoicing tool. So we know more or less kind of the revenue of a company 411 00:25:50.610 --> 00:25:54.410 that's working with us. And so we of course check, okay, how much do you 412 00:25:54.410 --> 00:25:57.370 actually pay compared to what's the revenue that you're making? And we even know how 413 00:25:57.370 --> 00:26:00.610 it's composed and that of course helped us 414 00:26:00.770 --> 00:26:03.890 understanding and having a guidance on, okay, how much 415 00:26:04.750 --> 00:26:08.470 should those companies pay for Plantcraft? Depending on how much money 416 00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:12.190 you're making and how much, what's your overall margin, 417 00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:15.790 etc. Product led growth 418 00:26:15.950 --> 00:26:19.710 in construction SaaS. Kind of sounds counterintuitive. 419 00:26:20.189 --> 00:26:23.910 How did you design onboarding to work for 420 00:26:23.910 --> 00:26:26.830 craftsmen, not tech users? 421 00:26:27.710 --> 00:26:31.470 Yeah. So the core question we've asked ourselves, okay, what's the first 422 00:26:31.470 --> 00:26:35.070 big win that you need to achieve in order to understand and love the product? 423 00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:38.990 I mean it's a, it's the same thing as Meta, formerly Facebook did 424 00:26:38.990 --> 00:26:42.750 back then was finding out, okay, what's that one movement when 425 00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:46.430 people really stick? And for us that was really identifying those, 426 00:26:46.430 --> 00:26:50.070 those wins and how can we make sure that happens super, super fast. So in 427 00:26:50.070 --> 00:26:53.630 early days we've skipped some of the regular process 428 00:26:53.710 --> 00:26:57.230 steps. When you want to create your first quote, you need to usually 429 00:26:57.630 --> 00:27:01.230 create a little project in which you also create the customer. 430 00:27:01.550 --> 00:27:05.310 And we said, okay, to really give the client a fast 431 00:27:05.310 --> 00:27:09.030 aha moment, we've kind of speed 432 00:27:09.030 --> 00:27:12.310 up that process and so you create your account and then you just hit, okay, 433 00:27:12.310 --> 00:27:15.510 create my first quant. And kind of, we've done that steps for you in the 434 00:27:15.510 --> 00:27:19.310 background. We've kind of reworked this flow 435 00:27:20.430 --> 00:27:24.270 I guess a hundred times. But it was always about thinking, okay, what's the 436 00:27:24.270 --> 00:27:27.550 win the customer needs to do? And how can you make sure to 437 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.120 show this really, really quickly? You've 438 00:27:32.120 --> 00:27:35.600 been doing some interesting stuff. You build a strong influencer network 439 00:27:35.760 --> 00:27:39.600 with creators. How did that community 440 00:27:39.840 --> 00:27:43.440 first strategy impact the trust in your brand? 441 00:27:43.760 --> 00:27:47.560 And how do you measure that? So I 442 00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:51.400 guess measuring this is super, super difficult. And it's something 443 00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:55.200 that's rather qualitative in nature. When you talk to clients, when 444 00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.920 you talk to partners and you can sense, are they actually 445 00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:02.600 trusting you? Are they actually willing to go the extra 446 00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:06.440 mile? Are they enduring fuckups that you do over time because 447 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:10.240 you increase prices overly or you miscommunicate certain 448 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:13.760 feature releases? Whatever it is, I guess it's, it's all the 449 00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:17.480 metrics that you have that paint this picture. I 450 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:21.120 guess what really matters in this sense is that we work with real tradespeople, 451 00:28:21.120 --> 00:28:24.880 not just somebody who's doing advertising for us. So it was always 452 00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:28.400 mandatory that they really, yeah. Use the system themselves 453 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.120 to create offers and invoices and whatever they need to do 454 00:28:32.320 --> 00:28:36.000 to really be standing behind the product and seeing that it has a value. And 455 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:39.480 so this was really crucial for us that we are not doing something 456 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:42.240 superficial, but just honestly and true. 457 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.960 We've Been talking and teasing a little bit about AI in your tool before. 458 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.760 What role does it play, especially 459 00:28:53.260 --> 00:28:56.220 using AI agents voice first interactions. 460 00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:00.220 Is the plane the next generation of plancraft? 461 00:29:02.060 --> 00:29:05.020 Yes. AI agents is the next generation of plancraft 462 00:29:05.340 --> 00:29:07.660 definitely. Because it's just 463 00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:13.620 insanely valuable for our clients to 464 00:29:13.620 --> 00:29:16.860 think they could get new employees, digital 465 00:29:16.940 --> 00:29:20.750 ones, without having to source for them, having to onboard them 466 00:29:20.750 --> 00:29:24.550 and having to pay them even in a way at least we're 467 00:29:24.550 --> 00:29:27.390 not charging as much as an actual co worker. 468 00:29:28.750 --> 00:29:31.870 And so in a 469 00:29:33.470 --> 00:29:37.230 industry where you have a shortage of skilled labor and even unskilled 470 00:29:37.230 --> 00:29:40.550 labor, it is very interesting to have this 471 00:29:40.550 --> 00:29:44.400 agentic approach. And so I guess looking 472 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:48.080 in the next kind of one, two, three years into the 473 00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:51.760 future, we will see dramatic changes in 474 00:29:51.760 --> 00:29:55.520 the way small businesses are being operated 475 00:29:55.520 --> 00:29:59.360 and run. When 476 00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:02.520 talking about AI, everybody has something, everybody has 477 00:30:02.600 --> 00:30:05.960 tools, features also box. 478 00:30:06.120 --> 00:30:09.960 Obviously I was wondering if you guys 479 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:13.370 do have a framework for deciding which 480 00:30:13.450 --> 00:30:17.290 AI features will be built next versus 481 00:30:17.610 --> 00:30:21.450 what you leave out. So 482 00:30:21.930 --> 00:30:25.690 it's following the same kind of logic that we've always tried to have is really 483 00:30:25.690 --> 00:30:29.370 okay, where do our customers lose most of the time and where 484 00:30:29.930 --> 00:30:33.410 is kind of most potential that we see. And then from there on we decide, 485 00:30:33.410 --> 00:30:37.170 okay, what's the bet that we want to take? And 486 00:30:37.170 --> 00:30:40.820 at the same time we also need to acknowledge that especially in, in early 487 00:30:40.820 --> 00:30:44.260 days of new technology and new solutions, 488 00:30:44.500 --> 00:30:48.300 you need to experiment a lot and you just need to develop stuff, throw it 489 00:30:48.300 --> 00:30:51.620 out to the clients, get real, real world feedback and then 490 00:30:51.860 --> 00:30:55.580 see what sticks and what works and whatnot. And so at the same 491 00:30:55.580 --> 00:30:59.140 time we try to have both kind of experimenting a lot and 492 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.300 just playing around with whatever is kind of again, state of 493 00:31:03.300 --> 00:31:06.750 the art in this week and what's possible and in 494 00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:09.910 parallel following kind of the track where we see, okay, 495 00:31:10.150 --> 00:31:13.990 tackling the problems, the bigger ones that our customers have, 496 00:31:14.470 --> 00:31:18.190 where kind of the most. Potential sits in 497 00:31:18.190 --> 00:31:21.670 the founders world. Julian breaks down different pricing 498 00:31:21.670 --> 00:31:25.510 experiments and referral loops how he trains his 499 00:31:25.510 --> 00:31:29.070 team to think like craftsmen and not coders to 500 00:31:29.070 --> 00:31:32.750 learn more in our founders vault. Taking you now 501 00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:36.500 a little bit into vision and reflection part of 502 00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:40.260 this interview, you said every employee at plancraft 503 00:31:40.260 --> 00:31:43.860 should experience AI. How do you do this 504 00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:45.740 on an operational basis? 505 00:31:47.820 --> 00:31:51.500 So a, you need to give access to the tools that are at hand. 506 00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:55.380 And I guess this is sounds super logical, but 507 00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:58.820 I see a lot of companies holding back and then there's somebody requesting and then 508 00:31:58.820 --> 00:32:02.250 there's a, there's a no. So we really give room and 509 00:32:02.810 --> 00:32:06.410 also use that, that money that we've of course fundraised through investment 510 00:32:06.490 --> 00:32:10.250 rounds to make sure that we, we were always thrilled about 511 00:32:10.250 --> 00:32:14.050 having the newest solutions at hand just to understand what's, what's 512 00:32:14.050 --> 00:32:16.890 currently possible. And then secondly, of course, 513 00:32:17.930 --> 00:32:21.690 just getting the people that want to, want to 514 00:32:21.690 --> 00:32:25.370 experiment and that want to collect these experiences is a 515 00:32:25.370 --> 00:32:29.100 very important step, especially in a growing company. And, and also with the existing 516 00:32:29.100 --> 00:32:32.860 team just making sure everybody understands why they should 517 00:32:32.860 --> 00:32:36.700 do it, why they should experiment, rather than the how. So I 518 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:40.380 guess this is the, the core task every, every management, 519 00:32:40.540 --> 00:32:44.179 founder, whoever runs an organization has to fulfill. It's. We 520 00:32:44.179 --> 00:32:48.020 don't experiment with AI and experiences because of the, because it's a hype topic, 521 00:32:48.020 --> 00:32:51.740 but because it has so much to offer for you and 522 00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:55.110 making sure that this translation follows and 523 00:32:55.510 --> 00:32:58.790 doesn't threaten people, but makes them curious and 524 00:32:59.990 --> 00:33:02.550 willing to experiment and try stuff. And 525 00:33:03.670 --> 00:33:07.510 there will always be the negotiation if there is enough time operationally 526 00:33:07.510 --> 00:33:11.150 to really figure out stuff. And so while on 527 00:33:11.150 --> 00:33:14.830 the one hand you have to communicate to the team 528 00:33:14.830 --> 00:33:18.590 that if it's important for them and that's something they should understand, they need 529 00:33:18.590 --> 00:33:21.840 to invest the time. And on the other hand you also need to, as a 530 00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:25.680 founder or management, make sure that there's room and 531 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:30.040 goals set in a way that there's this potential to play around 532 00:33:30.040 --> 00:33:33.680 with it. I was wondering, what's your vision 533 00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:37.600 for Europe's craft industry for 2030 if 534 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:41.480 digitalization finally catches up with them? I 535 00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:45.120 guess just having a workforce that is fully 536 00:33:45.120 --> 00:33:48.480 digitized where there's no paper trail, that will be already 537 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.560 something which doesn't sound too fancy and 538 00:33:53.120 --> 00:33:56.880 future led. But if you look in the real world in construction, 539 00:33:57.040 --> 00:34:00.640 that is something that would really envision is every company 540 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.200 is using the tools to get rid of paper trail, increase 541 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:07.520 data quality, increase speed and efficiency among their 542 00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:11.280 teams and peers. Last question on 543 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:15.120 AI, I promise. What's a common misconception about AI 544 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:18.680 in the more traditional industries that you wish 545 00:34:19.080 --> 00:34:22.600 founders would stop? I've actually, 546 00:34:23.560 --> 00:34:26.600 I'm not so sure that founders are the ones 547 00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:30.680 communicating misconceptions. I guess there's just a lot of buzz 548 00:34:30.680 --> 00:34:34.440 and hype in, in any different direction that you might look 549 00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:38.160 because it's just a topic that nobody yet knows how it will turn out 550 00:34:38.160 --> 00:34:41.640 and how it really will reshape. I guess 551 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.520 what everybody I feel are now agreeing on is that if you 552 00:34:45.520 --> 00:34:49.040 learn or do an apprenticeship and get to learn the job of a 553 00:34:49.040 --> 00:34:52.840 carpenter or of a painter, that you will be very, 554 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.680 very much valuable in the next couple of years. And I of 555 00:34:56.680 --> 00:34:59.480 course go the step further and just think of okay, if you are not only 556 00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:03.320 a carpenter but you are an AI enabled carpenter that also gets rid 557 00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:07.120 of the stuff that's kind of annoying then you'll be the top one. So 558 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.800 why not directly answering the question. But I guess this is just my standpoint, 559 00:35:11.650 --> 00:35:15.450 not knowing what other founders proclamation I find difficult. Again, 560 00:35:15.450 --> 00:35:18.610 there's a lot of misconception I guess, but because everybody 561 00:35:18.770 --> 00:35:22.570 nobody really knows, neither do I. I just know it for my industry and 562 00:35:22.570 --> 00:35:26.370 how we'll change that. From our audience. I would like 563 00:35:26.370 --> 00:35:30.130 to know if you're running a tech startup in a more traditional 564 00:35:30.130 --> 00:35:33.810 industry, what's the biggest mindset barrier that 565 00:35:33.810 --> 00:35:36.290 you have faced? Comment down here. 566 00:35:38.380 --> 00:35:41.820 Let's do a few more questions. Very, very soft, 567 00:35:42.620 --> 00:35:46.260 very slow. What advice would you give 568 00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:50.060 pounders for building for non digital native 569 00:35:50.220 --> 00:35:54.020 users? Get in touch a 570 00:35:54.020 --> 00:35:57.420 lot, sit next to those people, really understand 571 00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:01.260 how they are using your tool or any other tool 572 00:36:01.900 --> 00:36:05.580 and just familiarize and lay off your own 573 00:36:05.580 --> 00:36:09.260 perspective. What's one 574 00:36:09.260 --> 00:36:12.420 belief or practice, maybe from your meditation that keeps you 575 00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:15.020 balanced through scaling chaos? 576 00:36:16.620 --> 00:36:19.900 I think it's two thoughts. One is 577 00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:24.260 I always think there's so many great companies and so many people who have built 578 00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:27.660 this, who have gone through struggles of 579 00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:32.580 having this chaos. So we will be fine. We will also 580 00:36:32.580 --> 00:36:35.060 do this. So it's a lot of good kind of 581 00:36:36.660 --> 00:36:40.300 I say confidence in ourselves. I guess it's the one 582 00:36:40.300 --> 00:36:44.060 thing. And the other one, a big belief I have is just that you 583 00:36:44.060 --> 00:36:47.380 got to show up and do the work. There's not enough 584 00:36:47.380 --> 00:36:50.740 shortcuts in life for you to only run shortcuts. So you 585 00:36:50.980 --> 00:36:54.540 got to show up and again, you got to talk to your clients, you got 586 00:36:54.540 --> 00:36:58.250 to get your hands dirty, you got to do the work. And of 587 00:36:58.250 --> 00:37:02.010 course one or the other thing can automate or give out of your 588 00:37:02.010 --> 00:37:03.650 hands, but it should be the 589 00:37:05.890 --> 00:37:09.490 actual work that you feel you're doing if it really 590 00:37:09.650 --> 00:37:13.330 should be helpful. And our 591 00:37:13.330 --> 00:37:17.130 two usual closing questions. Are you open 592 00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:20.730 to talk to new investors? As we just closed our Series 593 00:37:20.730 --> 00:37:23.810 B Now in 2025 summertime, 594 00:37:24.290 --> 00:37:27.730 right now is not a good time. The only time I take is to 595 00:37:28.050 --> 00:37:31.550 go and talk to you this podcast because I think it's valuable to 596 00:37:31.950 --> 00:37:35.590 share the learnings that we've made. But not right 597 00:37:35.590 --> 00:37:39.270 now. I think there is. Then of course 598 00:37:39.270 --> 00:37:42.510 the second usual question. You just raised funds as you said. 599 00:37:43.630 --> 00:37:47.350 Are you currently looking for talented people? If you are 600 00:37:47.350 --> 00:37:50.950 as stoked as I am about the change in construction and if you 601 00:37:50.950 --> 00:37:54.270 are not only an AI native but also somebody who is 602 00:37:54.430 --> 00:37:57.980 wanting to work together very closely, then please 603 00:37:57.980 --> 00:38:01.500 please join my team and reach out. Just check plant 604 00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:05.140 growth.com I'm sure you're going to share the link that we have plenty of 605 00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:09.260 open slots and feel free also to reach out to me directly through 606 00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:11.700 LinkedIn. Just hit me up. 607 00:38:14.260 --> 00:38:18.100 Juju was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much. Hope 608 00:38:18.100 --> 00:38:21.900 to have you back after you see your C funding. Thanks 609 00:38:21.900 --> 00:38:24.580 for having me. My pleasure. Have a good day. Bye Bye. 610 00:38:29.720 --> 00:38:33.080 That's all folks. Find more news, streams, 611 00:38:33.240 --> 00:38:34.280 events and 612 00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:38.680 interviews@www.startuprad.IO. 613 00:38:39.080 --> 00:38:41.080 remember, sharing is car.