Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / The Gods Don't Need You... So Why Practice? [RHR S7, EP08]

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The Gods Don't Need You... So Why Practice? [RHR S7, EP08] · Random Heathen Ramblings

0:02
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
0:04
podcast where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
0:07
Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I'm your
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host. Let's get into it.
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Good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
1:11
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show this
1:13
week. Thank you again for tuning in
1:14
and listening to the Ramblings as they come here on Season 7 of
1:20
the podcast. It's great to have you here
1:21
again, and I hope you're all staying safe and warm,
1:24
especially for those of you in the northeastern area of the
1:28
United States. I know you folks up there just
1:31
recently got pummeled with about two feet of snow, at least in
1:35
the New York area and Rhode Island and all that, kind of my
1:39
old stomping ground neck of the woods area.
1:41
So I hope you're all staying safe and dealing well with all
1:46
that. Couple quick things before we
1:49
get into the show this week. I do want to remind you all that
1:53
if you head down to the show notes of this podcast, you'll
1:56
see a bunch of links, one of which is going to be or several
1:59
of which are going to be places that you can pick up a copy of
2:02
my short saga, the Saga of the Heron that Flies to Hell.
2:06
It's available through, you know, like Barnes and Noble and
2:09
and some other digital platforms, as well as in a
2:13
paperback format through Lulu. So check that out if you're so
2:18
inclined. It's a great short story that
2:20
you can read kind of around your, your hearth fires, your
2:24
event fires, whatever social gathering that you have.
2:27
It's a great story to tell in that sort of a setting.
2:33
And then I also have a music album coming out, a collection
2:37
of 14 songs coming out on May 1st and the album is called Till
2:43
the Final Twilight Dies. And it's a lot of my lyrical
2:48
interpretations of of things to do with the gods and and some of
2:53
the mythical and otherwise interesting aspects that is
2:59
releasing in digital format only on May 1st.
3:04
Like I said, it's not going to be streaming anywhere.
3:06
I'm not releasing it on streaming platforms.
3:09
I am just selling it as a downloadable album.
3:14
So the link for that pre-order is going to be down in the show
3:18
notes as well. If you pre-order the album,
3:22
you'll save about half of what the album costs on the release
3:25
date. Plus you get a couple of early
3:28
tracks to enjoy. They're all WAV files.
3:31
So you can, when you get them emailed to you, you'll be able
3:34
to, you know, download them locally on whatever device you
3:36
want and take them with you if you so choose.
3:40
But after the initial cost of, you know, producing this music
3:45
and using the tools that I used to do so are covered, all of the
3:51
all of the revenue, I guess from the album sales is going to go
3:55
directly to nature conservation organizations in my area that
4:02
have yet to decide on which one it is.
4:03
But it's going to go back to, you know, places or
4:07
organizations that have a a very strong emphasis and focus on
4:12
nature conservation, land stewardship and all that kind of
4:16
stuff. So check all that stuff out if
4:19
you're so inclined. Another quick announcement to
4:22
let you just know here in about a well, actually here in just a
4:27
few days. So by the time you're listening
4:28
to this podcast, not on Patreon, of course, if you are watching
4:33
this on Patreon, thank you. But.
4:36
The the tier structures on on how I run my my Patreon tiers.
4:45
You know, we've got the Carl tier for a dollar, we got the
4:47
Yarl tier and all that. That's going to be changing come
4:50
March 1st. Now anybody that signs up as a
4:54
patron before March 1st will be grandfathered in as a legacy
5:00
patron, right? So you're, you're, you're not
5:04
going to be charged anymore if you're already signed up at a
5:08
certain tier. And if that tier price goes up,
5:11
which some of them are going to be is more of the more and more
5:13
the higher tier levels, you're not going to be charged extra.
5:18
You will retain the same price that you've been pledging every
5:22
month. And like I said, there's going
5:25
to be some changes to that. So if you want to read up more
5:27
on that, there's a post on my Patreon that's pinned.
5:30
The link for that is in the show notes as well.
5:33
But again, that's coming up here on March 1st in just a few days.
5:35
So take advantage of, you know, that if you want to get in and
5:41
become a legacy patron and not get any extra, but it's not
5:45
required. It's it's great to help support
5:47
what I do here because again, this is, you know, the time that
5:50
I take to book the guests or research topics and just spend,
5:55
you know, filming, recording, editing, whatever the case may
5:58
be, your support is greatly appreciated.
6:01
So for those of you who are here on Patreon watching this, thank
6:04
you very much. All right, now that we've got
6:07
all that stuff out of the way and I've already wasted, you
6:09
know. What, 6-7 minutes almost.
6:12
Let's get into the topic for today.
6:13
So if you were here last week, I also have no guests this week.
6:19
I have a guest coming next week, Patrick.
6:20
'S gonna be coming back on and I actually seeing him as more of a
6:27
kind of a Co host he has a lot of great you know he's got a
6:32
great personality great insight and.
6:34
Me and him go back a while, you know, we've been friends for a
6:37
long time. We exchanged kinship titles
6:41
between one another. And you know, he's always down
6:43
to to come on the show and talk. So Patrick will be back next
6:47
week. We got a fun topic lined up
6:49
already, but this week it's just going to be.
6:51
Me again and you know, I wanted to I wanted to go over something
6:55
or talk about something that I feel kind of piggybacks off of
7:00
the topic of last week, which was this kind of.
7:05
Quiet problem of of, you know, parasocial heathenry where it
7:10
seems like people are consuming content rather than practicing.
7:15
Not saying that there aren't practitioners out here doing the
7:18
work because there definitely are, but but the, the, the
7:21
pitfalls are the things that can arise when you're just consuming
7:29
content rather than learning how to, to, to do anything even
7:33
related. And the, the, the topic for this
7:36
week, kind of that I feel piggybacks off of that is
7:41
understanding the role that the gods play in Heathenry and they
7:48
are not. And, and this is probably not a,
7:51
a new, you know, angle to take or this is not a new position
7:55
to, to stand with is that, you know, the gods are not demanding
8:00
gifts from us. They're not demanding our our
8:03
loyalty to them. They are not punishing us and
8:06
then requiring, requiring us to, you know, sacrifice to them for
8:11
appeasement. So if the gods don't need us for
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any of those things, why do we practice?
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Why do we why do heathens do what heathens do?
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So these are some of the things that I wanted to talk about, you
8:25
know, on this week's episode, 'cause I feel like it's, you
8:28
know, talking last week about the pitfalls and, and what
8:33
things to watch out for now that you're, or now that we're, you
8:37
know, kind of in that headspace or in that mindset, let's talk
8:40
about the things that make what we're doing important for us or
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are important in general as, as, as heathens.
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So the kind of cleaner the modern misunderstanding, I think
8:52
some general modern spirituality approaches often assumes that,
9:00
you know, to to practice something equals that it's
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transactional between humans and the divine.
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And that, you know, an offering or sacrifice equals the payment
9:14
or you know, the the recompense or whatever to pay for a
9:17
transgression or for a sin. And that, you know, speaking to
9:23
the divine or communicating with the with the sacred.
9:27
Through prayer or any sort of thing like that translates as.
9:32
A. A request.
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Line, you know, again, that whole appeasing them or pleading
9:39
with them for this or that. And so much of what you know,
9:43
actual Heathenry is whether you look at it from a historical
9:46
reconstructionist lands or whether you're more newer neo
9:51
Pagan, modern day heathen kind of approach either way.
9:55
But I think, you know, especially in the historical
9:57
side of things, as you go back and you research more about as
10:00
much as you can about what the what the dramatic peoples were
10:05
doing with relation to their dealings with the with the gods
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and goddesses, right. It was that it's it what it
10:13
shows. More of is that it was a
10:16
relational thing, not a transactional sort of a thing.
10:21
You know, what they were doing and how they were interacting
10:26
with the gods was to build and maintain good relations.
10:35
And the way that that is done, you know, is through.
10:39
You've heard me talk. A lot about this, I'm sure
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you've heard others talk about it as well, because.
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It is a. Central theme in Heathenry,
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especially other Pagan pasts and I'm sure there's.
10:53
You know a. Very high importance placed on
10:55
what I'm about to say, but. It is the, the gift exchange or
10:59
the gifting cycle, you know, that is how we enter into the,
11:09
the act of dealing with the gods, interacting with the gods.
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And it's also the way that we interact and, and that, you
11:16
know, the, the dramatic humans would interact and deal with
11:18
each other, you know, communally.
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Socially, the gift exchange was a very central part of their
11:28
society and a part of their culture and we see it throughout
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many different sources, saga's included.
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One particular saga I think is the the Gulab saga Ormstungu and
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I'll put a link or a reference to that in the.
11:45
Show notes or the description area down below but this in this
11:50
specific you know saga we we learned that the importance of
11:55
of the gift exchange in that it builds honor and good reputation
12:00
good relationship, especially amongst the leaders at the time
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right So it was leaders were were considered good.
12:11
You know the good a good Chieftain who would be generous
12:18
with their gifts. You know, they were even, I
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believe in, in many cases, socially obligated to
12:26
reciprocate gifts. You know, there's a whole thing
12:31
that I can't remember the exact source right now, but I remember
12:35
hearing one time, you know, it was like, you know, a gift that
12:37
came in that was too much or, or, or too high that could not
12:42
be reciprocated equally, you know, could be seen as like an
12:47
insult. So there was a, there was
12:49
definitely decorum. There was definitely kind of
12:51
like a, a way to go about it. The fact is that it existed and
12:55
this was not just a part of their social interactions with
13:00
people and with one another, but it was, it was it, it
13:03
transferred into their relationship with the divine,
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with the God. So gifts were given in hopes to
13:08
receive the gifts of the divine in return.
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It wasn't to say, oh, you know, we, we messed up Odin.
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Here's a, here's a fresh horse. You know, we're sorry, Thor.
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We didn't plant enough seeds and now we don't want you to be mad
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at us. So, you know, here's here's some
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goats or whatever. No, it wasn't.
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Again, it wasn't a transactional thing.
13:28
It wasn't to appease them. It was to maintain good
13:31
relations as it was that we are blessed with what we have and we
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want you. To have a gift to give to.
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You and thanks for this and then so that way you could give us a
13:43
gift in return of again, continued prosperity or good
13:47
health or good, good crops, right good, just goodness and
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and peace and all that. We're going to get into a a, a
13:54
part a part of a of a saga that talks a little bit about kind of
13:58
like why or the reason why bloat was done bloat meaning, you
14:04
know, that that sacrifice. But in addition to the things
14:07
that I just mentioned, how, you know, gift exchanges was such an
14:12
important part of life that it was, you know, reputational,
14:16
Your honor was, you know, strengthened, you know, it was,
14:21
it was considered an honorable thing, you know, so you had a
14:23
good, good frame or a good kind of social credit rating, if you
14:27
will. But yeah, reputation and bonds,
14:29
like not so much payment, but just securing those good
14:34
relations, you know, so it wasn't like buying your way.
14:37
To the God's favor or people's favor.
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It was, it was the gesture, it was the act of securing those,
14:46
those healthy bonds. So it was never about, you know,
14:50
feeding. The gods like they were kind of,
14:53
you know, or we'll, we'll, we'll use them as the, as the, the
14:56
focal point since we're talking about, you know, since the gods
14:58
don't need us. This is what the Germanic
15:00
heathens at the time and and what transferred through history
15:03
is. What they understood was that
15:04
the gods are not system cosmic dependence that we need to feed
15:07
or give things to. It was again about weaving
15:10
themselves into. The Web of Weird.
15:13
And doing so by understanding reciprocity, honor, obligation,
15:21
Frith, the whole thing that this is, this is what goes back to
15:24
that word Frith that I've talked so much about that there really
15:27
is not a modern English comparison to it.
15:31
Because Frith means so many different things, much of which
15:34
I just stated. Right.
15:34
The relationship. The obligation.
15:38
The reciprocity and, and all of that, that that's, that ensures
15:45
a state of peace. A great book that people can
15:50
check out. I haven't read it all, but I've
15:52
gleaned through a lot of it and found it very important when
15:57
understanding what I'm talking about.
15:59
The gift cycle, It's a book I believe was published in like
16:02
1925. It's by Marcel Mouse and it's
16:07
called The Gift. Probably find it on online
16:11
somewhere. You might even be able to get
16:13
download a digital copy, but I'll reference it in the show
16:18
notes again for you. But Marcel Mouse, it's called
16:21
the gift and Mouse argues that the again, it was relational.
16:27
The the the purpose of the gift in many archaic societies, not
16:30
just dramatic, but in many. Pre Christian you know, or
16:34
archaic societies. The, the, the, the role of the
16:38
gift and then how it played in, in, you know, social dynamics
16:44
was definitely relational. Wasn't, wasn't transactional.
16:47
So you want to read up more about that and how and how this
16:50
concept echoes in multiple areas of the world at different points
16:55
in time, culturally speaking, Check out.
16:58
The Gift by Marcel Mouse. But specifically within, you
17:04
know, dramatic societies, the gift exchange reinforces or at,
17:09
you know, again, at the time it reinforced kind of, you know,
17:13
those social bonds, hierarchy, hierarchy as well, 'cause if you
17:17
think about the, the social dynamic, you know, you had your,
17:25
you know, you had your homesteads, you had your clans,
17:28
you had your villages or you had your different areas of, of the
17:35
country of the continent even that were managed or I guess you
17:40
could say. Ruled or LED by?
17:44
The, the, the nobility class, so you know, the Yarls or The
17:47
Chieftains or whatever they were at the time.
17:50
So again, to, to maintain those social bonds in a, in a, in an
17:54
orderly way, the gift exchange was central to that.
18:00
And again, it was about that social bond, not commercial
18:07
exchange. You know, it wasn't, at least
18:10
not for the most part, you know, not, not, not something to buy
18:13
your favor. You know, it was, it was very
18:17
specific other places that we know about with regards to what
18:24
you know, 'cause you think bloat, sacrifice, you know,
18:27
these were things to give up things that were, you know,
18:30
you're, you're, you're killing livestock and using it.
18:34
The lives, the blood of the livestock as the gift, as the
18:37
sacrifice. But then you know, that's,
18:39
that's being consumed and shared them the meat of the animals
18:45
being consumed and shared with your community.
18:50
So in many sources, whether you look at Tacitus, whether you
18:53
look at Adam of Brahman, whether you look at Ibn Fudlon, any of
18:58
these other, whether eyewitness or hearsay accounts or sources
19:03
that, that describe offerings or sacrifices, the, the, the common
19:09
theme in these historical accounts is that they are
19:12
central communal acts. There was not just, you know,
19:16
one person doing it for themselves, It was for everyone.
19:22
So it goes back to that whole like.
19:24
Parasocial Heathenry title that we were talking about last week
19:27
is that you're not. I've always said this too, like
19:31
the, you know, Heathenry is where people gather together and
19:34
there's this common act, there's this shared experience
19:40
envelopes, you know, you, you can't stumble by.
19:43
Yourself, you can't. If you can give an offering and
19:45
you can do faintings, I'm sure there's undocumented sources,
19:51
but I'm sure there's plenty of times where in these ancient
19:54
societies that they had time for that.
19:57
They were doing that. It's just something that was
19:59
never written down. But what is documented, what is
20:04
written down in multiple areas is that the act of the sacrifice
20:09
was done communally. They were more than just was
20:14
more than just one person. You know, offering something.
20:16
It was that everybody was there and it was, it was again, so
20:23
that the, the relationship between the gods and the people
20:28
was a good one. There was no reason or need to
20:33
appease them. There was something that that's
20:35
not how the the the people viewed their holy powers.
20:41
It wasn't about desperation. Oh, you know, we need more rain
20:47
Thor and you know that that wasn't I don't I don't really
20:49
think that we see that echoing across in in the in the sources,
20:53
you know, relationship. It was understood and it was
20:59
maintained that in order to to keep and preserve cosmic and
21:04
social order, right. So cosmic meaning you know that
21:07
that of things which pertain to the unseen, the gods, their holy
21:11
powers, and. What can be seen their
21:15
relationship with one another. All of that was done through
21:21
exchange of gifts. Like I said before, with regards
21:29
to what do you call it, it being not transactional, but
21:36
relational. There's a line in the Haines
21:40
Gringler saga which is talking about why bloat was done, you
21:49
know, or why sacrifice was made in, in an old Norse, the the,
21:54
the phrase is till or sokh frieder.
21:57
And that means for a good and for a Goodyear and, and for, for
22:01
peace, you know, so for Goodyear, for a Goodyear and
22:03
peace, what was sought by the people, what was looked for by
22:08
the people to maintain was right conditions, right order, right
22:13
relationships, Not, you know, the, the, the emotional
22:18
validation that may or may not have been achieved through the
22:24
act of, of, of doing it. You know, so I've seen, I've
22:29
seen some examples. Of people who I've talked to
22:32
over the years or? Have shared things online, maybe
22:35
not talking directly to maybe just talking whether on a
22:38
platform or whatever is, you know, they'll get this feeling
22:44
or they'll not get a feeling like they're their gift was or
22:49
was not accepted or, or or something like that.
22:51
And you know, that's not the reason why you're doing it.
22:55
That's not the why. That's not the purpose behind
22:58
the gift. That's not the purpose behind
22:59
the sacrifice. It's not to be emotionally
23:01
validated. Through the process, it's to
23:05
ensure that you know you have a right relationship, a good
23:09
relationship with with the gods. We'll talk a little bit about.
23:16
You know, what could, what that could look like or how you kind
23:18
of know what you're dialed in, but it's about doing it.
23:21
It's not about, you know, posting about it online and and
23:26
talking about it even on a podcast.
23:28
I mean, I'm talking about it now because it's a topic and it's
23:30
meant to inspire some conversations amongst your
23:34
circuit, you know, amongst your circles unless your inner yards
23:37
and amongst your people. But that's where it starts.
23:41
It's not where it ends. It's a it's, it's a, it's a
23:45
seed. So go forth with it and do with
23:48
it as you see fit. So some other, some other things
23:57
that I think of with regards to the, the act of of the gift and
24:01
the act of sacrifice. It was, it was all it was, It
24:03
was hands on. You know, it wasn't let's think
24:06
about it, let's talk about it and then let's hope for the best
24:09
or let's pray about it and then not do anything.
24:11
It was hands on. It was boots on the ground.
24:13
It was, you know, hands on the hog, right?
24:17
It was it was the oath that the OS that were sworn on on the
24:21
Yule Borer, for example, that say that that what's the saga?
24:28
It's a Hervara saga or Heydrichs.
24:31
I'll put a note for that down. I'll annotate that down in the
24:35
show notes in description area as well.
24:38
But that's a saga where in it talks about the men laying their
24:41
hands on the sacred boar at during Yule, swearing oaths on
24:47
the bristles of the boar and then sacrificing the animal as
24:51
the meal, as the, as the, as the sacrifice for the you'll bloat
24:59
and then, you know, the meats consumed.
25:03
It wasn't about thinking in any sort of way that the gods need
25:11
to to, to have a promise. Promise kept.
25:13
You know, like I you, you're, you're, you're my people.
25:15
And then you owe me this kind of allegiance or, or, you know,
25:20
anything like that. It's.
25:22
It was about, it was about the people binding the themselves
25:29
through the act of the gift exchange, binding them to what
25:34
they were talking, what they were saying, you know, walking
25:36
the walk, talking the talk, not just lip service.
25:40
It was it was the physical act of securing the things that they
25:44
were talking about. So it wasn't just a prayer
25:47
spoken, you know, that didn't get any.
25:49
Works or deeds attached to it. In that sort of way, it kind of
25:56
reminds me about where I fell a little bit short in my personal
25:59
practice. This.
26:00
It's a little bit, I wouldn't say, yeah, I guess it would be
26:04
under the category of UPG because none of this is what I'm
26:07
about to say has anything to do with the source.
26:09
But it kind of has the the lesson in it where the act of
26:15
the gift has to happen more than just the lip service.
26:20
And I've talked about this because it happened earlier this
26:24
year. Last was it last month Think
26:29
yeah where and I went on a 10 mile walk of.
26:34
It was a walk of resolve, right? I wasn't listening to music.
26:37
I wasn't entertained by any outside source.
26:40
I was, you know, dedicated in the moment to walk 10 straight
26:44
miles and learn what I can through that, through that
26:49
journey. And about halfway through it, I
26:53
came across the remains of a deer carcass that had been
26:56
pretty well consumed by the land and the elements.
27:02
And, but it was a male, it was a buck, you know, and it was about
27:04
a six pointer. The rack was in pretty good,
27:07
good condition. The skull had been mostly
27:09
destroyed, but the the skull cap and the antlers.
27:12
Attached to it, we're still in good condition and I.
27:16
Thought it was a a very amazing gift to come across because it
27:23
was in such a common area where anybody that travelled the path
27:27
that I was travelling, a very heavily trafficked area, could
27:30
have easily taken that piece for themselves or what have you.
27:35
They didn't. I found it, I took it and while
27:38
I said the words out loud, you know, just to say thank you,
27:42
right? To to thank spirit, to thank
27:43
source, to thank the gods, to thank nature, to just to thank
27:46
the land for this opportunity to get something that.
27:50
Could be used. Through my own spirituality,
27:54
through whether it be crafting or whatever, but I didn't give a
27:59
gift for that gift. I just said thanks.
28:03
Honestly. I mean, I just, I said the words
28:05
and then I kept on. And by the time my walk was done
28:08
and over with, I had, you know, blisters on my feet.
28:12
They literally got their gift through my blood.
28:17
And, you know, I, I wonder, you know, sure if I'd have worn
28:22
better shoes, I wouldn't have gotten blisters.
28:24
But what if I had entered the gifting exchange the right way
28:31
instead of just saying thanks, you know, And it wasn't a, it
28:35
was an intentional misdeed, you know, I wasn't thinking
28:39
maliciously in any way to not give a gift.
28:41
I just, it escaped my mind. I wasn't mindful enough to
28:45
realize what was happening. I wasn't present enough with
28:49
what was happening. And I got taught a lesson in, in
28:53
the in in the interim. And that's how I see it as, you
28:56
know, it's, again, practically speaking, literally.
28:59
I got blood blisters because you know, my foot, my foot gear was
29:04
not the best choice. But I think things happen for a
29:11
reason, especially when coming across or coming upon things.
29:18
Like I just described. So that was a lesson for me to
29:26
remember that always be ready to give a gift.
29:33
For a gift, you know, a gift always seeks a gift in return.
29:36
And that gift was there for the taking, but not without
29:43
reciprocity, without, well, not without first providing a gift
29:47
of sorts in return. So we talked about that.
29:54
The gods don't need us, you know, they don't need our gifts.
29:57
They don't need us to do anything for them.
30:00
We're not in service to them like that.
30:03
We're not, you know, now, granted, there might be some
30:05
cases, you know, when you read throughout them in the lore
30:07
where you know a specific person or, or you know someone of of
30:12
great importance. A hero is, is kind of hand
30:16
picked or chosen or selected, you know, or acknowledged by the
30:20
divine. And then they're, they don't,
30:22
they go on and they do great things.
30:23
But in general, for the most part, like nowadays, the gods
30:27
don't need us for anything. So why practice at all?
30:31
If the gods don't need us, why do we do it?
30:37
And I like to personally think, you know, and I'm sure this is a
30:40
question that could get asked, hey, why do you practice
30:43
heathen? If, if, if, if the gods don't
30:46
need you for anything, if they don't need your gifts, if they
30:49
don't need your piety, if they don't need this or that, really
30:52
need it, why do it in the first place?
30:54
Now, that answer might be different from several people
30:58
that you asked, because some people might might actually have
31:02
good reason to feel like you know any why they're why they're
31:08
answering it. I personally believe that the
31:12
practice is what shapes the practitioner.
31:15
It's not about what the gods get out of it from us.
31:18
Yes, the act of the gifting exchange secures that
31:22
relationship between us and them to you know, I think that that
31:28
that that has an effect or an impact on the outcome of things,
31:33
whether they see, you know, that, that, that whether we're
31:37
seen as as favorable in the eyes of the gods.
31:39
I don't I don't really think that that's a a worldview that
31:42
echoes across dramatic heathen beliefs.
31:46
If that's what you want to think and that's how you felt.
31:48
I'm not going to say that you shouldn't.
31:51
I just don't think that it's a inherently heathen concept, you
31:56
know, to think that the gods favor me and This is why I'm
32:00
doing great. It's, you know, things are going
32:03
the way they're going because of our deeds, because of our works,
32:05
because of the luck that we've accumulated and strengthened the
32:10
the humming ya that we've inherited, that which has been
32:14
laid down in our orlay, that has been passed down, that we've,
32:21
you know, either used or not used.
32:25
But I generally feel that practice is beneficial and it
32:30
shapes the practitioner. It's for us and in a lot of
32:34
different ways because what, what ritual enforces I think in
32:43
many different cultures, but just for the sake of heathenry,
32:48
you know, heathen. Rituals, they create this sense
32:51
of discipline, right? It goes to the.
32:55
The very common belief that Heathenry is an orthopraxic
33:00
faith or religion or Folkway, whatever other thing you want to
33:04
call it, but it is orthopraxic. So doing things the right way,
33:08
doing things in the right order at the right time, that is what
33:14
Heathenry is about. So it creates that discipline
33:18
and it builds a strong efrain and reputation and.
33:22
Before I said like that that. Social.
33:24
Credit rating if you will you know you are well known or you
33:27
are known well socially and then it binds community.
33:33
You are trustworthy, you are known to have it that, that
33:42
strength, that, that, that discipline, that order, you
33:46
know, so your reputation is strong.
33:48
Your, you know, the, the behaviors that align with
33:55
general, those heathen world views.
33:56
It's, it's all in alignment, you know, So you've got all of these
34:00
things that, that heathen ritual really encaptures or, or
34:07
embodies. I think I know I've been to,
34:11
I've been to many rituals where the bloat that was done.
34:19
Felt a bit disingenuous. I've been to somewhere.
34:23
I felt like it was very impactful, you know, I felt, I
34:30
want to say changed one way or another, but the bloat changes
34:36
the ones who gives it, right? And it changes the people that
34:41
are there to, to be a part of it.
34:46
Cuz again, it's about binding that community and it's about
34:48
aligning behaviors all coming together for that one key
34:54
moment, for that one special time in time, You know, where
35:00
you separate from the mundane day-to-day activities and you go
35:05
into that, that sacred space, that sacred time.
35:13
And this aspect of things, bloat, sacrifice, you know, all
35:19
that, yes, you could say that, you know, I can leave an
35:22
offering. I can do it without the, the,
35:23
the, the presence of my community or without the
35:25
presence of community in general.
35:28
But that's really that, that's, that's getting to the point
35:31
where it's, it's not bloat anymore.
35:34
You know, I mean, bloat requires that community requires that
35:38
thing because relationships, our relationships, whether it be
35:43
with each, you know, with others, with the, with the
35:44
divine, you know, it requires participation and you have to
35:48
be, you have to have people to participate in that with.
35:52
There has to be that exchange. There has to be that
35:57
relationship sharing. You know, we're all together
36:01
witnessing this, this ceremony. We're all together witnessing.
36:04
This, this sacrifice, this this ritual act.
36:10
And and when that's when it's done that way and when people
36:14
are. Gathered together to.
36:16
Witness the gift being offered, or this the blood being.
36:20
Poured or the. Thing being, you know, interred,
36:23
whatever it is a gift being burned, whatever the the act of
36:26
the of the ritual is it that act it it it creates the the the
36:33
sense of obligation it is you know this is what's actually.
36:36
Happening. It's not I'm just thinking about
36:37
it. I'm not just reading about it.
36:39
I'm not just hearing about it. I'm.
36:40
I'm here participating with it. I'm I'm part of this exchange,
36:46
You know, some examples I've like I felt where this is lived
36:51
out well enough is just in my own personal experiences has
36:54
been during events that I've attended where you know, the
36:59
bloat or the OR the offering was, you know, you had.
37:04
Your go the OR you had your. The Volvo or whoever was
37:11
presiding over the ceremony being the ones to give the gift,
37:17
but, you know, give it to the fire or whatever the act of, of
37:23
giving the gifts to the gods were, they were the ones doing
37:26
it. But everybody could approach and
37:29
leave a gift on their own behalf for the Gothi or the Githya or
37:33
the the Volvo or whoever was there presiding over the
37:36
ceremony. To.
37:38
Give to the gods on your behalf, right?
37:41
Like you came and you came with your gift, but you didn't give
37:43
it to the gods. The go thee did that sort of a
37:46
thing. And so it was I'm participating.
37:48
I'm I'm I'm a part of this whole thing.
37:50
Now. It's not that I'm just here
37:50
witnessing and now I'm participating.
37:54
And in that way, that connection to the holy, that connection to
37:59
the gods becomes real because it creates that obligation.
38:03
Now that you know, the obligation creates
38:05
relationships, gifts create obligation, obligation creates
38:08
relationships, relationships creates a standing, a status,
38:13
you know, because without, without that, without
38:16
participating, there is no relationship.
38:18
You're just hanging out. You're just watching something
38:23
to be like, you know, it's like the difference between playing a
38:27
sport and watching 1 on TV or watching 1 even in the, in the
38:32
stadium. You're, you're not participating
38:35
in the in the game, You're, you're just a spectator.
38:41
When I was a kid growing up, it kind of reminds me of when I was
38:44
a kid growing up in New York, there was a fella that was kind
38:48
of like an uncle figure to me. I grew up around a lot of the,
38:51
the generation of men who were about minimum, you know, 15 to
38:57
20 years older than me. And they, you know, so I was,
39:02
you know, I was a teenager and they were already, you know, in
39:06
their mid to late 30s, some younger, some older.
39:11
But one of the guys who was again, a very, very impactful
39:20
man in my life was a former Army Ranger.
39:23
And he always would say things like, you know, there's no
39:27
spectation, only participation. And I like that.
39:30
It was, it was, you know, you're not just going to sit here and
39:33
watch what's going on. You're going to get in there and
39:35
you're going to do it. You're going to help.
39:37
You're going to be a part of this.
39:39
You're not just going to sit by on the sidelines watching, you
39:43
know, so one could say that in Heathenry as well.
39:48
There's no expectation, only participation.
39:52
Get involved, put your boots on the ground, get your hands in
39:55
the dirt, get out there and Start learning what it is to get
40:00
involved with that relation, you know, building that relationship
40:04
as a fellow who I hope to. Have come back on the show here
40:06
soon. Who's got a A?
40:10
Compound sort of thing that he's building on his property out in
40:13
the Oklahoma somewhere. I'm trying to remember exactly
40:18
where now. I think it's South northern
40:21
Missouri, southern Oklahoma, somewhere up in that general
40:25
area. Yeah, but but.
40:28
Veymunder is his name. He goes by Veymunder and he's
40:32
he's clearing a bunch of the property in the land to have a
40:34
cigar bloat celebration here in a couple of months.
40:38
You know, doing the work, getting his hands dirty, getting
40:41
his feet in the ground, getting, you know, being out there
40:43
actively doing things to. Secure that relationship with
40:50
not just the gods you know, but with the land.
40:52
Fight the land whites, you know the veytir.
40:56
And then as he's doing this, as he's reporting back about all of
40:59
this, right, What is that doing for his reputation?
41:02
It's building up that gefrain like crazy man, like he's
41:06
everything that I'm talking about up to this point about
41:08
what getting involved, doing things, participating in that
41:15
it's it's living, it's being lived out.
41:17
So you know, I'm not just saying this stuff because it makes
41:22
sense to me. I mean, I'm saying because it
41:23
is, it does make sense, but you can see it happening if you pay
41:26
attention and if you realize that's, that's exactly what this
41:30
is about, right? So and then the other reason
41:38
why, you know, if the gods don't need it, then why are we doing
41:40
it? It's I feel like, you know,
41:41
human beings generally, you know, need to have some kind of
41:46
ritual container. You know, it's kind of like a
41:50
piece of technology for the self ritual is I think it separates,
41:59
it separates us from, you know, the other relatives that we, we
42:04
have the animal relatives, the, the fish, the reptiles, the, you
42:09
know, birds and, and all these other relations that we share
42:12
time and space with. It separates us from from them.
42:19
And when we're talking about what we're doing, why we're
42:23
doing it with it's, it's, it's, it's what separates also from,
42:29
from, you know, us and, and the other relations like I just
42:31
mentioned. But what separates us from those
42:35
parasocial heathen types that I was talking about last week?
42:37
You know, the aesthetic heathens, the ones that.
42:39
Just like to look the. Part.
42:40
The ones that mistake content consumption and as practice are
42:46
the ones who are symbolically identifying without behaving
42:51
differently, you know, without changing their behavior.
42:54
They're just putting on the mule near they're just wearing the
42:57
tunics and they're just cutting their hair a certain way and
43:00
then calling it a day. It's, you know, it's, it's a
43:06
question that that I like to ask myself.
43:09
And I think it's a good one to ask of ourselves, right?
43:13
Is that if if what we're doing, if our path of our heathenry
43:17
will say is not costing us anything at all ever.
43:21
If we're not doing anything, if we're doing it and it's never
43:23
costing us anything to do it, It may not be, it may not be doing
43:31
anything. What we're think we're doing
43:34
ain't doing nothing, you know. So if you're not feeling, I
43:41
think people that encounter. Moments during their spiritual
43:50
lives, their spiritual journeys where they feel disconnected,
43:52
that where they feel lost, where they feel, you know, like
43:58
they're out of sorts with the gods or with themselves or
44:02
whatever. It's you.
44:04
But what are you? What are you doing that that
44:05
costs you anything? Where's the sacrifice, you know,
44:13
And if you're not doing that, then it's then you're not doing
44:16
anything. And it's no wonder that you're
44:17
not feeling any connection out of it, that you're not feeling
44:20
any benefit or any, you know, growth from it at all.
44:28
What I think really the, you know, real practicing does what
44:31
with the act of, of all this is doing the, the, the gift
44:34
exchange understanding that is the central part of our dealings
44:37
with one another with, with the gods.
44:41
Is that it it? It teaches us.
44:45
Better behaviors in general, right.
44:47
So when when we're talking about these types of things and that
44:50
they are solidifying or they are strengthening how we deal with
44:56
the gods. But it all you know, it goes
44:58
even beyond that it it should echo in our daily lives.
45:01
There we should be more. We should then be becoming more
45:03
careful on the things that we say, on the things that we do
45:07
and. You know, our disciplines
45:08
change, our disciplines increase, we become more
45:11
structured and more. You know, dedicated to a
45:15
lifestyle that reflects what we believe in.
45:19
It's not just that we're again talking about it.
45:22
And then, you know, living a life of reckless abundance and
45:30
slovenly ways and and undisciplined practices, it
45:38
keeps us more true to that old ancestral way as well.
45:42
You know, like our relationships with the ancestors is, is then
45:46
strengthened and deepened. It's the same way that we
45:49
interact with them as we would with any of the, the, the, the,
45:53
the unseen or the scene, right, That that gift exchange applies
45:57
with the, with our ancestors as well.
46:01
Our behavior in general should change.
46:03
You know, you know, I've, I've, I've talked about this to other
46:10
people, maybe not necessarily on the podcast before, but I talked
46:13
about this with, you know, my own family and, and my own wife
46:18
and other people as well as it, you know, I am not the same
46:24
person that I was when we first met, you know, for anybody
46:28
that's known me for any length of time and.
46:32
That's as it should be, I I would hope.
46:34
You know what I mean? Like I'm not talking about.
46:36
Changing for the sake of keeping up with trends.
46:41
I went through that stage of my life as a youngster, right?
46:44
Trying to fit in. I grew up in a in a in a in a.
46:50
Way that I was always trying to please other people you know and
46:56
I thought well that's what they want me to be so I'll be that
47:02
but once I found myself and once I found who I.
47:05
Was it was It was about? Honing in and and improving on
47:11
myself. And when that happens, you're
47:15
going to change, right? You're not going to be the same
47:16
person that you were at at the beginning, you know, so I'm not
47:20
the same person that I was 10 years ago.
47:22
I'm still me. Like obviously I still have the,
47:24
you know, a lot of the things that I found funny then I find
47:27
funny now. But you know, I'm not the, I'm
47:29
not the the same person, the same version.
47:32
You know, my operating system's been upgraded several times.
47:36
And so that's going to reflect change behaviors are going to
47:39
change for the better. You know what my sense of
47:46
obligation is, where that obligation lies has sharpened as
47:49
well. You know, that's, that's one
47:51
other thing that can be an indicator for us to know when
47:59
things are working right. What, what, what real practice,
48:02
what actual practice actually does.
48:05
And, and you know, I think that's a great point too.
48:08
Is, is to, this is called a practice because we're never
48:11
getting it. We're never going to get it
48:13
right. 100%. You know, it's kind of like with
48:17
medicine, you know, you practice medicine or with law the other
48:20
day they practice law. It's a, it's, it's ongoing.
48:23
It's an ongoing learning thing. So we practice Heathenry because
48:27
it's an ongoing work of towards improvement and towards
48:33
bettering ourselves. So I think that, you know, and I
48:45
think this is probably generally agreed upon, the most heathens
48:48
at least is that, you know, the gods are again, no, they're not
48:51
sitting, you know, in their halls in Asgard or wherever in
48:57
hunger waiting for us to to give them offerings.
49:05
We don't get that from any of the sources.
49:08
We don't get that from a cultural aspect.
49:12
It's not how Germanic and Nordic people, pre Christian heathens
49:18
view the world. It's not what they saw the gods
49:20
as, but their character, their discipline.
49:29
You know where they their place in the web of weird.
49:36
All of that. You know, is shaped by their
49:40
actions, what they would do. You know, the repeatedly with
49:43
intention, but knowing what the purpose of it was.
49:46
You know, the orthopraxy, orthopraxic nature of of of this
49:50
of this path. As I mentioned before, it's
49:56
that's what that's, that's what I personally think why we do
49:59
what we do. It's, it's to better ourselves.
50:02
It's to better ourselves, not just for ourselves, but for our
50:06
people, for our kindreds, for our families, for our friends,
50:10
for our loved ones, for our elders, for our children, to
50:15
give something better to the next generation, right to come
50:21
and be good stewards of of our land that we're here enjoying
50:26
for a temporary time and leaving it in a better state or leaving
50:30
it, you know, in good standing for the next generation, for our
50:36
children, for their children and then and so forth.
50:39
That's what I believe. Why I'd least why I do what I do
50:44
why I even the way I he then it's you know it's not because I
50:49
think the gods are waiting for my offerings.
50:51
It's like OK Jesse it's it's Yule again.
50:53
Where are you going to have for us this time nothing like that.
50:57
It's, it's doing that and living in that way and then practicing
51:01
in that way in hopes of getting gifts in return for maintaining
51:05
this relationship with them. And then doing so on a more
51:07
regular basis with my ancestors and with the local spirits in
51:11
the land that. That I share space with.
51:14
You know, the gods are one thing.
51:15
That's a that's. That's a whole different.
51:18
That that's its own aspect of, of being heathen.
51:21
But the the more common, the more day-to-day, the more
51:23
regular activities, at least for me, is to maintain that right
51:29
relationship through the gift exchange with the local land
51:34
whites, with my ancestors, because they're the ones that
51:37
share the same space that I do, the the profane space that is
51:44
shared by seen and unseen. Entities, forces, beings is the
51:53
gods have sacred space and sacred time in their own things
51:56
that they're worrying about. And then we we enter into that
52:00
relationship at certain specific times with certain specific.
52:03
Ways of going about doing it, but day-to-day regular
52:08
activities, you know, I mean, I, I give offerings and I give time
52:13
and attention way more frequently to the local whites
52:17
and, and the my ancestors and I do the gods.
52:21
The gods have their place. And this is just, you know, this
52:24
is my heathen rewrite. Like, I'm not, don't overtake
52:29
what I'm saying as a indication that you should do it and see
52:35
things my way, you know? This is just.
52:39
Sharing what I'm experiencing and what I think.
52:42
And it's opening up conversation for you to share your thoughts
52:45
or, or have conversations with, with your people, you know, ask
52:50
questions yourselves, you know, like what, what, what has your
52:54
practice changed for you? What has doing what you've done
52:59
actually changed about yourself? And that's not a question that
53:05
you need to respond to in a comment.
53:08
You know, this isn't about interactions with algorithms.
53:11
This is, this is real conversation, you know, So what
53:16
are you, what are your practices doing to, to bring about change?
53:19
What are you going through or where are you just going through
53:24
the motions? Now you know.
53:26
Up got to go to Yule now because it's this, you know, the such
53:29
and such moon of the such and such day of the this of that,
53:32
right. Going through the motions, not
53:33
thinking about the why, not thinking about the purpose, you
53:38
know, and if that's what's happening or is or has happened,
53:41
what are you doing about it to to change, you know, what, what,
53:45
what, what would deeper commitment look like for you if
53:48
you were to approach that and go huh.
53:53
I'm a bit too cavalier. I'm a bit too casual.
53:56
I'm a bit too nonchalant, like I don't or, or maybe you're not
54:02
like maybe you got it dialed in and then you got, you know, a
54:05
great example to set for the newcomers, for the younger
54:09
generations, for the ones that are exploring Heathenry and
54:12
finding podcasts or blog articles or Facebook groups or
54:15
Reddit boards or whatever the case may be.
54:19
And they're having questions and they're asking, you know, maybe
54:25
you're, maybe you're, maybe you've gone through all the
54:28
things that I'm talking about and you have your own important
54:32
impact that you can share on the world or, or at least to some
54:36
degree, I'm not saying you have to.
54:37
It's just again, something to consider, something to think
54:40
about. So yeah, that's, that's, that's
54:44
that's really all I've got. If you do want to check out any
54:46
of the sources I mentioned earlier, I mentioned the gun log
54:50
saga, Orm Stungu, the hamstring La saga, the hair Vara saga, or
54:55
Kedricks mentioned Tacitus mentioned, Ibn Fatlan mentioned
55:01
Adam of Bremen. Was it Marcel Mouse the gift?
55:06
You know I'll put those things down below.
55:10
I won't link anything 'cause I don't think the links get really
55:13
clicked on much and it's just extra.
55:15
You know, you can find it just Google of things I'm talking
55:17
about. You can find, you know, where
55:21
you want to get it, how you want to get it, what best works for
55:24
you. You know, that's, that's part of
55:25
the fun, you know. So as long as you know the name
55:27
of something you've got, you've got a good start on that.
55:32
So, yeah. And then if you are so inclined
55:35
and you want to share your thoughts, if you're able to
55:37
comment on this episode, wherever you're catching it.
55:40
I know the folks on Patreon here watching, they can comment down
55:43
below. And one thing I do want to add
55:46
to that or say to that, if if you've commented on a post here
55:53
on Patreon and I didn't respond or I didn't react to it, I
55:57
didn't see it, I apologize in advance.
56:00
Because the, that the thing with Patreon is that it's great for
56:04
creators. It's not seemingly great for
56:08
interaction between creators and our audience because I don't get
56:12
notifications even when I'm logged into the platform.
56:17
Like I don't see, all I see is when you know, and I've got all
56:21
the notifications turned on. So I don't even get emails.
56:24
I don't get notifications on when people comment.
56:28
So a lot of times I'm having to go back and find comments, you
56:33
know, I'm like, I'm going back weeks at a time and looking at
56:35
to see if anybody commented anything that I needed to, to
56:38
respond to. So please still comment.
56:40
I'm not saying don't comment. I'm just saying that if I don't
56:43
respond to a comment that you leave on my Patreon, it's not
56:48
because I'm personal purposely ignoring you.
56:50
It's it's the the platform doesn't notify me.
56:54
So having to go back and find those those comments probably
56:58
the best way to get a hold of me if you do have something that
57:00
you would like my attention on. Whether it's a response to a
57:03
comment or a thought that you're having is to e-mail me
57:08
themidgardmusingstn@gmail.com. I'll get back to you as soon as
57:12
I can. Sometimes it takes a week or
57:13
two. Not not really a week or two,
57:15
but sometimes it does take. A few days sometimes a week for
57:19
me to to respond to emails with everything else that I've got
57:23
going on but I definitely will get back to you so bear with me
57:27
in that and yeah and if you also you know like I talked about in
57:32
other shows you know you got the hotline that you can call
57:34
61567198 yeah it was a 615-671-9832.
57:42
You can leave a voicemail and then.
57:47
Be featured on the on the podcast.
57:48
That way you can remain remain anonymous if you so choose.
57:53
But that pretty much does it for this week's episode.
57:56
Come back next week and remember too that next week I'll have
58:00
Patrick back on the show. But after March 1st, the Patreon
58:05
tears are being restructured starting on March 1st.
58:09
So everything after March 1st, if you join at any of the other
58:13
anything like I think above Yarl, just check the link down
58:17
in the show notes that will be LinkedIn the show notes to that
58:20
pinned post on Patreon to find out more about the details with
58:26
that. So but again, if you want to get
58:29
in and and remain a legacy patron at the lower rate before
58:35
the prices change, before the pledges change, now's your time
58:39
to do it. But either which way, however
58:41
you choose to support the production of this show is
58:44
greatly appreciated. Don't forget to check out my
58:47
book The Sag of the Heron that Flies to Hell and my new album
58:51
coming out 14 tracks. Album's called Till the Final
58:55
Twilight Dies. That's coming out on May 1st.
59:01
You can get your pre-orders now. Links for that are somewhere
59:03
over here and whatever show notes or down description
59:06
whatever. So that that that covers
59:08
everything I think that I wanted to say this week.
59:10
Let me know what you did think about this show and and what we
59:12
were talking about today and where your thoughts are on it.
59:15
I'd love to hear what you have to say about it.
59:17
So I appreciate all of your support as.
59:19
Always thank you so very much for tuning in, and until we hear
59:22
from each other again, may the gods continue to notice you and
59:27
may your ancestors smile upon you.
59:29
We'll see you in the next one. None.