Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct: Episode 223

Transcript

Rugby Direct: Episode 223 · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
0:12
Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
0:19
Speaker 2: Straight down the middle of trucks, try.
0:28
Speaker 1: To get inside the game from every end goal. It's
0:32
Speaker 1: Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Nabier, powered by
0:36
Speaker 1: News Talks at B.
0:37
Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Directs. I knew it was a bad
0:40
Speaker 2: idea to record this before the AGM. Liam, we are
0:44
Speaker 2: back and the rest of the podcast is not far away.
0:46
Speaker 2: But first and foremost new CEO for New Zealand Rugby
0:52
Speaker 2: and it is Steve Lancaster. Your reaction to this. They've
0:57
Speaker 2: embarked on the global search over the last what twelve
1:00
Speaker 2: months since Mark Robinson handed in his notice Mike Robinson
1:04
Speaker 2: left December last year, and on the day of the
1:07
Speaker 2: AGM they've ann that Steve Lancaster is the new CEO
1:11
Speaker 2: of New Zealand Rugby.
1:12
Speaker 3: It's taken a long time, hasn't it to get to
1:15
Speaker 3: this point because they knew a good couple of months
1:18
Speaker 3: out that Mark Robinson was leaving, so probably shouldn't have
1:23
Speaker 3: taken this long. I'm not surprised because the way in
1:28
Speaker 3: which the recruitment process played out. You had so many people,
1:33
Speaker 3: high profile people, from the boss of Kiwibank to the
1:38
Speaker 3: boss of one en Z and it was.
1:40
Speaker 4: The narrow stations. Tom Harrison, that's right, but the.
1:42
Speaker 3: Narrative was almost all about who didn't want the job,
1:46
Speaker 3: and I think New Zealand Rugby has not succeeded in
1:51
Speaker 3: its desire to land a big fish first and foremost.
1:54
Speaker 3: When you embark on a global search and you end
1:57
Speaker 3: up promoting someone from within who led the community game
2:02
Speaker 3: prior to it, it's I don't think it's necessarily a
2:06
Speaker 3: great look for the desirability of that job. And look,
2:10
Speaker 3: it's a bloody tough gig that the pay doesn't translate
2:14
Speaker 3: compared to some of the big corporates out there. You
2:18
Speaker 3: stick sticking your neck out in public. You're often damned
2:22
Speaker 3: if you do, damned if you don't. You're also dealing
2:25
Speaker 3: with a myriad of challenges and mouths to feed and
2:29
Speaker 3: political infighting at times. So it's an incredibly tough gig
2:32
Speaker 3: and I think people out there recognize that. I think
2:35
Speaker 3: Steve Lencas has done a good job since coming on board.
2:37
Speaker 3: He says some big ticket items including a new all
2:39
Speaker 3: black coach, So I think that's probably won him the position,
2:44
Speaker 3: But if you reflect back to the start of this
2:47
Speaker 3: recruitment process, I think they probably had someone else in mind.
2:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think they've went searching for a unicorn
2:54
Speaker 2: that I'm not sure exactly exists and have landed on
2:58
Speaker 2: someone that's been working for them for nine years in
3:01
Speaker 2: their offices and is a very good operator. And I
3:04
Speaker 2: think I've been impressed by the nature of how he's
3:06
Speaker 2: front of media over the last five six months, since
3:09
Speaker 2: he's been in that role in some tough times as
3:11
Speaker 2: you alluded to there and some tricky situations, But I
3:14
Speaker 2: didn't get the sense that he was advocating for the
3:18
Speaker 2: CEO job. Maybe he was in the background but felt
3:21
Speaker 2: like he was the safe pair of hands in the
3:23
Speaker 2: interim capacity. Now he's gonna have to leave the organization,
3:26
Speaker 2: which is different because when you're the interim versus the
3:29
Speaker 2: full time guy in charge that there are different responsibilities
3:33
Speaker 2: and different expectations that come with that. But David Kirk
3:35
Speaker 2: has signed off on this and the end the board,
3:38
Speaker 2: they clearly believe that that he's the right guy to
3:40
Speaker 2: do do this job going forward.
3:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the dynamic has shifted a lot in
3:46
Speaker 3: recent times in terms of how that how New Zell
3:49
Speaker 3: and Rugby's being run as well. There's no denying, certainly
3:52
Speaker 3: from the outside looking in, that David Kirk is Captain
3:56
Speaker 3: Kirk and he appears to be making a lot of
4:00
Speaker 3: those big decisions and so having a safe pair of hands,
4:03
Speaker 3: Having an operational CEO who may accept more responsible now
4:08
Speaker 3: he's in the chair full time probably works in the
4:14
Speaker 3: way and which responsibility has been delegated, because I think
4:18
Speaker 3: Kirk is a very strong, opinionated, experienced operator and so
4:25
Speaker 3: maybe that dynamic works well, maybe that's shifted from what
4:28
Speaker 3: they were looking for.
4:29
Speaker 4: And there has been other appointments.
4:30
Speaker 3: As well, with some of those big ticket positions around
4:34
Speaker 3: finance being filled since Lankster came into the seat.
4:39
Speaker 2: He did, and we've already seen a little bit of
4:41
Speaker 2: a change, you know, they're now open to this ANZAC test,
4:43
Speaker 2: which is likely to have got signed off at at
4:45
Speaker 2: bar level over the last twenty four hours or so
4:48
Speaker 2: and by the time you hear this podcast may well
4:50
Speaker 2: be out in the public ethers. So there is a
4:52
Speaker 2: changing view I guess from the Mark Robinson or to
4:55
Speaker 2: what we've seen with Lancaster, and also Kirk as well,
4:58
Speaker 2: and to get something like an ANZAC test across the
5:00
Speaker 2: line which had been barred shut. I guess speaks to
5:04
Speaker 2: some of those changing priorities you alluded to, and perhaps
5:08
Speaker 2: a desired work more closely with the Australians. What's your
5:12
Speaker 2: action to the anz test likely being confirmed.
5:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a big shift, isn't it Because it was
5:17
Speaker 3: a no go under Mark Robertson and Scott Robertson. But
5:21
Speaker 3: a change of regime both at the head of New
5:24
Speaker 3: Zealand Rugby and with the All Blacks I think has
5:26
Speaker 3: been pivotal. Dave Renny is in favor of it. He
5:30
Speaker 3: sees it as allowing him more preparation time in a
5:33
Speaker 3: World Cup year. Having a test at the start of
5:37
Speaker 3: the year will keep players on notice and allows him
5:40
Speaker 3: to get players together and have a real test. And
5:44
Speaker 3: surprisingly from people that I've spoken to around the super scene,
5:49
Speaker 3: CEOs and the like, there's actually quite a strong support
5:52
Speaker 3: for it, certainly in New Zealand's and look Australia have
5:56
Speaker 3: wanted this for a long time. I'm still on the
5:59
Speaker 3: fence about it. I have concerns about the message it
6:03
Speaker 3: sends around super rugby, taking potentially sixty your best players
6:07
Speaker 3: out for up to two weeks. How that reflects on
6:11
Speaker 3: the competition, how it devalues it potentially.
6:14
Speaker 4: But then there's a flip side.
6:15
Speaker 3: There's numbers been banded around of this game making anywhere
6:19
Speaker 3: between six and and ten million, and that will filter through.
6:22
Speaker 3: It's going to create attention and talking points earlier in
6:26
Speaker 3: the year, So there's positive and negative spin offs, and
6:29
Speaker 3: it's probably likely to be only once every two years
6:31
Speaker 3: at this stage.
6:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look they've gone and done Super Round and
6:35
Speaker 2: it's a success, and then the next year you go
6:38
Speaker 2: and change it up immediately. I'm sure there are fans
6:41
Speaker 2: that would have gone get bands that weekend, next week,
6:43
Speaker 2: next year will be there. It's entirely different kittle of fish,
6:46
Speaker 2: if it's on Easter weekend, if it's on a random April, May, June,
6:48
Speaker 2: whatever weekend that they might choose to pin it. So
6:52
Speaker 2: I get the desire to have it. And look, there'll
6:55
Speaker 2: be a lot of talking points in the week leading
6:57
Speaker 2: up to a week's leading up to the selection. Who's in,
7:00
Speaker 2: who's out. We've seen that in the NRL with origin
7:03
Speaker 2: talking points and things like that. In some ways it
7:05
Speaker 2: sort of overshadows what's going on in the competition. You've
7:07
Speaker 2: got a drop of a representative fixture coming up. I'm
7:10
Speaker 2: not sure that it's entirely good for Super Rugby, but
7:13
Speaker 2: it will create I'm sure a little bit more interest.
7:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the other thing I struggle with is I
7:17
Speaker 3: don't think you can justify three Blazlow Cups currently or
7:21
Speaker 3: makes have held that for two decades plus. Where's the jeopardy?
7:25
Speaker 3: How much interest is there going to be in a
7:27
Speaker 3: dead rubber potentially staged.
7:29
Speaker 4: In New Zealand.
7:30
Speaker 3: Maybe that smacks of arrogance, but that's that's how it's
7:33
Speaker 3: been for the.
7:34
Speaker 2: Past dead rubbers previously as well, you know those October
7:37
Speaker 2: games they played before they went up north. I don't
7:40
Speaker 2: think it's a right answer other than Australia, you know,
7:43
Speaker 2: putting some pressure on actually winning the Blooter's Low Cup.
7:46
Speaker 2: That would create some real jeopardy. I saw Christy Dorian
7:49
Speaker 2: and Sam Bruce responding to a suggestion on X that
7:53
Speaker 2: the Blitterslow Cup becomes a standalone in Anzac day, so
7:57
Speaker 2: it's up for grabs then and then you know you
7:59
Speaker 2: can win it back later in the Not sure about that.
8:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'd certainly create more interest on it. But I think.
8:06
Speaker 3: You need to sell something around a series with Australia,
8:11
Speaker 3: and yeah, you sort of catering to Australia to give
8:15
Speaker 3: them a greater chance of winning.
8:16
Speaker 2: It put the DHL Cup on the line. Then we'll
8:19
Speaker 2: talk right on with the rest of the podcast here
8:21
Speaker 2: on Rugby Direct Brown thirteen of Super Rugby Pacific Napes.
8:27
Speaker 2: We'll get into the mailbag shortly and there is a
8:29
Speaker 2: few questions that have been asked of us, but a
8:33
Speaker 2: big week ahead for a lot of these teams in
8:34
Speaker 2: Super Rugby Pacific. When you look at the matchups we've
8:38
Speaker 2: got and also the table, this could be quite pivotal
8:42
Speaker 2: with only four weeks to go in the season, some
8:45
Speaker 2: big chances for teams to make a move and teams
8:49
Speaker 2: could well be spat out the back after this weekend.
8:52
Speaker 4: Absolutely all.
8:52
Speaker 3: Let the business end is fast approaching, not quite make
8:56
Speaker 3: or break, but entering that region fairly quickly. So as
9:01
Speaker 3: you say, some big matchups that will determine the top
9:05
Speaker 3: six and seedings from there, we'll get.
9:08
Speaker 2: Into some tipping as well. Crusader's Blues is on Friday
9:12
Speaker 2: night seven five. You can hear that on a news
9:15
Speaker 2: talk ZB Sports and that's new change this week. You
9:18
Speaker 2: can listen on iHeartRadio find your local frequency on news
9:21
Speaker 2: Talk ZENB dot co dot in Z slash Sport. But
9:24
Speaker 2: the Crusaders have gone with a relatively settled lineup, although
9:28
Speaker 2: they've lost Kimita this week with his Rayhan is at ten.
9:31
Speaker 2: But you look at the Blues, Anton Signa goes to
9:35
Speaker 2: the bench this week. They've decided to keep Finlake, Christie
9:38
Speaker 2: and Bowden Barrett's finishes in this game and start knocking
9:41
Speaker 2: Peter Feta again. What do you make of those decisions
9:44
Speaker 2: by Vancotta?
9:45
Speaker 4: Intriguing?
9:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Stephen Peterefetter was impressive and has come
9:50
Speaker 3: back last week. But I can't imagine if you asked
9:53
Speaker 3: Boden Barrett that he would be stoked to be on
9:56
Speaker 3: the bench at super ragby level. Sullivan is playing well
10:00
Speaker 3: at fullback, so Vern's opted to go with that, and
10:03
Speaker 3: as you say, bring the experience on to close out
10:06
Speaker 3: the contests, which I think is more common in the
10:11
Speaker 3: modern game, isn't it the twenty three man game and
10:14
Speaker 3: the benches are hugely vital. But what do you think
10:19
Speaker 3: it says about where Boden's at? And do you think
10:22
Speaker 3: the Blues will stick with that through the remainder of
10:24
Speaker 3: the year.
10:24
Speaker 2: Well, I think we saw Para Feder's running game work
10:26
Speaker 2: really well last week and it's more on a pacific
10:28
Speaker 2: albeit they began to fall off tackles and it was
10:31
Speaker 2: a lot easier for him, especially in the second half,
10:33
Speaker 2: to really run the ship. I think given the roof
10:39
Speaker 2: now in christ Jews, they want to see Peter feed
10:41
Speaker 2: to run the ball a lot knocks more of a
10:44
Speaker 2: running half back and a threat there if and like
10:46
Speaker 2: Christie is lauded for his defense, Biden Barrett probably doesn't
10:51
Speaker 2: run as much as he did ten years ago, So
10:54
Speaker 2: I can understand it from Vincotta's perspective, but you've also
10:58
Speaker 2: are they going to significantly be able to change the game?
11:01
Speaker 2: And I look at a bench and go, arey going
11:02
Speaker 2: to be able to turn the game? We saw Boden
11:04
Speaker 2: Barrett do it a couple of times to the All
11:05
Speaker 2: Blacks and a recent memory, but I'm just not sure
11:08
Speaker 2: that it works the same at super rugby level, which
11:11
Speaker 2: has played at a probably a higher pace than test rugby,
11:15
Speaker 2: you know, natural pace than Test rugby. So yeah, I'm
11:20
Speaker 2: not entirely on board with it, But I can see
11:22
Speaker 2: where vin Quad is coming from, and I do think
11:26
Speaker 2: as well. You look at the Crusaders and what they've
11:28
Speaker 2: been able to squeak out wins over the Blues at
11:31
Speaker 2: home in the last couple of years. Think that to
11:33
Speaker 2: the semi final last year where they won by seven
11:35
Speaker 2: points and held on late and the Blues batter their
11:38
Speaker 2: line couldn't get through. Maybe some fresher legs in that
11:40
Speaker 2: final twenty and some karma and more experienced heads may help.
11:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, potentially that might be the thinking.
11:46
Speaker 3: As you say period at Fitter has that running game emboden.
11:50
Speaker 3: I think in the latter stages of his career has
11:53
Speaker 3: become more of a kick first ten than a running one.
11:58
Speaker 3: He does take those opportunities when it's on, but these
12:01
Speaker 3: days it is more about creating for others, and he
12:05
Speaker 3: does have an array of tactical kicks that he likes
12:08
Speaker 3: to you, So maybe that's in the thinking there. It
12:13
Speaker 3: is also intriguing. I know we're going to get to
12:15
Speaker 3: the Crusaders later, but just the changing context of this
12:19
Speaker 3: new stadium. Both teams have had one outing there and
12:23
Speaker 3: you refer to those recent Crusaders Blues results, Well, it's
12:27
Speaker 3: a different prospect now going to christ Church knowing the
12:30
Speaker 3: conditions that you're going to be able to plan. The
12:32
Speaker 3: Blues aren't the most expansive team in Super rugby, but
12:38
Speaker 3: it's complete contrast from going down in winter, the howling
12:43
Speaker 3: rain or cold or all those sort of conditions that
12:46
Speaker 3: you knew you were going to expect. So I think
12:48
Speaker 3: from a spectacle, from a tactical perspective, it is a
12:51
Speaker 3: very different prospect.
12:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, we'll get into that, and we won't at
12:54
Speaker 2: a moment or two. On the podcast, reads Chiefs, we'll
12:57
Speaker 2: come back and do the toping in a moment, reads Chiefs.
13:00
Speaker 2: Chiefs very inexperienced back three current time way for all
13:04
Speaker 2: our returns this week after missing Super Round, Limcoom's face
13:08
Speaker 2: is on the other wing, and so Isaac Hutchison, who
13:11
Speaker 2: impressed against the Dror is there. But the Chiefs should
13:15
Speaker 2: be relatively too good. I would have thought for the Reds,
13:17
Speaker 2: although it's a really tricky game going over to Brisbane
13:20
Speaker 2: and that experienced back three no Leroy Carter until the
13:23
Speaker 2: quarter finals it was out. Nana Saturo could come back
13:26
Speaker 2: and bite them a little bit, you know, as the
13:28
Speaker 2: season goes on.
13:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Reds I think are potentially starting to find
13:34
Speaker 3: some form. I think they've had some success against the
13:36
Speaker 3: Chiefs in recent years, so I think that game will
13:39
Speaker 3: be tight. And as you say, the back three some
13:41
Speaker 3: big names missing. Chiefs should have enough, but I'd have
13:46
Speaker 3: a few nerves.
13:48
Speaker 2: Cat Tangy tails back for the Homeland is incidentally against
13:50
Speaker 2: the Warrantors and then the Hurricanes awaited Mona Pacifica on
13:55
Speaker 2: Saturday night. No cameroy guards for three to four weeks.
13:58
Speaker 2: Is that the sound I hear in the distance of
14:01
Speaker 2: the train coming off the rails here with the Cave train.
14:05
Speaker 2: Liam Rubin loves out for the week as well, though
14:07
Speaker 2: I don't think he would have played anyway, But jeez,
14:10
Speaker 2: can Royga matte this? This could be season over for
14:13
Speaker 2: the Hurricanes.
14:14
Speaker 3: Look, it's a concern if there's one player that's the Hurricanes,
14:19
Speaker 3: the All Blacks ands own Rugby doesn't want to lose.
14:21
Speaker 4: Ever, it's Cam Rugert.
14:22
Speaker 3: He's, in my mind's alongside Artist Severe, is the most
14:26
Speaker 3: influential player in the game currently, So massive blow no
14:29
Speaker 3: matter who's deputizing him is going to be a step down.
14:32
Speaker 3: Let alone that the depth that or lack of the
14:35
Speaker 3: Hurricanes have there, but he will be back for the playoffs,
14:38
Speaker 3: Elliot and the Hurricanes will be in the playoffs.
14:40
Speaker 2: So seeing the numbers here, actually whether you know, if
14:43
Speaker 2: you lose all four of these games, whether you might
14:45
Speaker 2: be at a bit of strife.
14:46
Speaker 3: The train chugs on. Well, yeah, a look, Matt mass changes.
14:52
Speaker 3: The Hurricanes are blown away Moe in recent years. They
14:54
Speaker 3: do have good depth. I think they should still have enough,
14:57
Speaker 3: but anytime you make mass changes there tends to be
15:01
Speaker 3: a lot of disruption.
15:02
Speaker 2: Good opportunity for a few of these players. But yeah,
15:05
Speaker 2: I'm unconvinced about Eddie and Ardi. I think they're drop
15:08
Speaker 2: of his major for the Hurricanes. And having to play
15:11
Speaker 2: him against the Blues and the Hurricane, so the Highlanders
15:16
Speaker 2: and the Crusaders over the back three weeks I think
15:19
Speaker 2: is relatively you know, tricky for the Hurricanes.
15:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't mind vull Yuan off the bench. He's
15:25
Speaker 3: got a I'm not going to say similar running game,
15:28
Speaker 3: but he's got a bit of snipe about him and
15:30
Speaker 3: a bit of pace. But I'm not a huge Anadi fan.
15:33
Speaker 3: I think he's meant to be a good defensive kicking
15:36
Speaker 3: half back, but huge drop off from Royan.
15:39
Speaker 2: Where you just go about a couple of weeks when
15:41
Speaker 2: they lost to the Chiefs and the questions around something
15:43
Speaker 2: regard and added eggs time from towards clack Laidlaw. There
15:48
Speaker 2: is a major drop off there, right, let's get into
15:50
Speaker 2: some tipping Crusader's blues Friday night.
15:55
Speaker 4: It's tough, isn't it.
15:56
Speaker 3: You know what, Elliott, I am going to go the
15:59
Speaker 3: Crusaders on this one.
16:00
Speaker 2: Can gets one entry in your back of listeners, can
16:05
Speaker 2: see what you're doing.
16:05
Speaker 3: We will get to it a bit later. But they're
16:09
Speaker 3: in must win, almost desperation stage now and.
16:13
Speaker 2: I probably fifth of the ladder.
16:15
Speaker 3: Please mate, they could go back at a great rate
16:17
Speaker 3: of knots here and I saw enough heart from them last.
16:19
Speaker 4: Week going back home. The horses are back.
16:22
Speaker 2: Yes, just need the logo back now?
16:24
Speaker 4: Just on that? Was it a complete PR stunt the
16:26
Speaker 4: whole time?
16:27
Speaker 2: I think it might have been. Yeah, if they genuinely
16:31
Speaker 2: couldn't get them in there for the first week, why
16:32
Speaker 2: wouldn't they come out and say, look, we genuinely don't
16:35
Speaker 2: have the time to test this week one. We're looking
16:37
Speaker 2: to bring it back for the second game when we've
16:39
Speaker 2: got a bit more time. It did feel like a
16:41
Speaker 2: little bit of a pr stunt. But geez, great, sit
16:44
Speaker 2: them back, isn't it.
16:45
Speaker 3: I heard a whisper that the Blues actually investigated bringing
16:50
Speaker 3: the horses to graze at Eden Park.
16:54
Speaker 4: Tried to steal soup around trying to steal the horses.
16:56
Speaker 2: Is it? Come on, A bit of imagination would be good.
17:00
Speaker 2: It's not coping well with the you know, the National
17:02
Speaker 2: Stadium no longer being theirs.
17:05
Speaker 4: That would have been a great job the Blues.
17:07
Speaker 2: You know, there's no wonder they have won much for
17:08
Speaker 2: the last twenty years when they're just trying to copy,
17:11
Speaker 2: you know, the most successful franchise and sleep Break.
17:13
Speaker 4: Worry about getting those playoffs.
17:15
Speaker 2: Man, well, great to have you tipping them. I'm going
17:16
Speaker 2: to tip them as well. Reds Chiefs in Brisbane. Interesting
17:19
Speaker 2: to see where you go here.
17:20
Speaker 4: I'm going to the Chiefs.
17:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so far behind and there's some seven points
17:24
Speaker 2: back now that I'm going to go the Reds for
17:26
Speaker 2: an upset.
17:27
Speaker 4: It's not out of the question.
17:28
Speaker 2: Certainly doesn't. Highlanders war retars four to thirty five. Big
17:31
Speaker 2: game for both of these teams. Wartars five points out
17:34
Speaker 2: of the playoffs in eighth behind is similarly with the
17:37
Speaker 2: worst points differential, loser is definitely out, the winner is
17:41
Speaker 2: probably well still in the race. But you know, it's
17:44
Speaker 2: must have been territory for both of these games. Both
17:46
Speaker 2: these teams.
17:47
Speaker 3: Excuse me, it is two quite middling teams this year,
17:50
Speaker 3: aren't they both coming off defeats, both struggling.
17:55
Speaker 4: I don't flip of the coin. I'm going to go
17:57
Speaker 4: the Landers at home.
17:57
Speaker 2: Yes, so am I. I don't say that with a
17:59
Speaker 2: lot of confidence, but I'm going to go with them.
18:01
Speaker 2: More one to Pacifico against the Hurricanes Mowan a relatively
18:04
Speaker 2: settled side Hurricanes with a lot of changes, as we mentioned,
18:09
Speaker 2: is this time for Mowana to rise up and put
18:12
Speaker 2: a dent in the Canes top number, top one, top
18:15
Speaker 2: spot hopes.
18:16
Speaker 3: Excuse me, look, it does have a banana skin feel
18:19
Speaker 3: about it, particularly with those mass changes, Lucas Cashmore coming
18:21
Speaker 3: into ten, a number of others missing for the Canes.
18:24
Speaker 2: But no, yeah, Unfortunately, can't make the argument for it
18:28
Speaker 2: either as much as they would like to. Brumby's Force
18:31
Speaker 2: nine to thirty five critical game again for both of
18:34
Speaker 2: these teams, and the Force are in tenth, but they've
18:36
Speaker 2: found some real FORMU the last few weeks, but again
18:38
Speaker 2: they need to win this to keep their PLAYFF hopes alive.
18:42
Speaker 2: The Brumbies in six and are on the real slide.
18:44
Speaker 2: This is in Canberra though.
18:46
Speaker 3: You know, Elliott, the Force has been goods men in
18:47
Speaker 3: recent weeks. The tip them to beat the Crusaders, tip
18:49
Speaker 3: them to beat the Waratahs, and I'm going to stick
18:52
Speaker 3: with them to beat the Brumbies. I think you're right.
18:54
Speaker 3: They have found a bit of form but of confidence
18:57
Speaker 3: and the Brumby has been tanking. It's always tough in Canberra,
19:00
Speaker 3: but you know what, my force might get the job done.
19:03
Speaker 2: Your force. It is Star Wars Week or Star Wars
19:05
Speaker 2: dare a few days ago, May the fourth be with
19:08
Speaker 2: you made the seventh, howur as we record this, it's
19:10
Speaker 2: made the ninth in the games play. But you know what,
19:13
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have the Brumpties. Those are our steps. As
19:16
Speaker 2: I said, you have a seven point lead now forty
19:18
Speaker 2: out of fifty three games. I've got thirty three out
19:20
Speaker 2: of fifty three. So bit a catching up to do.
19:22
Speaker 2: Let's get into the Rugby Direct mail bag and there
19:25
Speaker 2: is plenty to get stuck into. This is from Thomas
19:29
Speaker 2: who are emailed in Hey Liam, love the podcast as
19:33
Speaker 2: an exercise, go through the remaining round robin games and
19:35
Speaker 2: make your selections and forecasts from those outcomes who make
19:38
Speaker 2: the top six. Crusaders have a points buffer at the moment,
19:40
Speaker 2: but they have a very tough run home. I believe
19:42
Speaker 2: there's a fair chance they missed the top six. Would
19:44
Speaker 2: love your thoughts on the body.
19:47
Speaker 4: So what's their run home?
19:48
Speaker 3: It's the Blues, then a Buye and the Hurricanes.
19:53
Speaker 2: And they've also got the Chiefs as well.
19:55
Speaker 3: Okay, so I say they win one of those three
19:58
Speaker 3: and that's probably enough to make the top six. And
20:01
Speaker 3: I still believe they'll be a real threat come playoffs
20:05
Speaker 3: because they'll get Scott Barrett's brannan Or and a couple
20:11
Speaker 3: of others back in that mix. But it's very tough
20:15
Speaker 3: to do away from home.
20:16
Speaker 4: I think.
20:18
Speaker 3: The Hurricanes have don't fear the Crusaders anymore. I think
20:23
Speaker 3: the Chiefs will relish playing them as well, so it's
20:26
Speaker 3: an incredibly tough run home. Incidentally, one of my good friends,
20:32
Speaker 3: massive Crusaders fan from christ Church, puts a bit at
20:35
Speaker 3: super Round on the Crusaders maybe the week after actually
20:39
Speaker 3: eight dollars to win the competition start man, and I
20:43
Speaker 3: said to him, you're going to need to cash out
20:45
Speaker 3: there to make a profit. I can't see a world
20:49
Speaker 3: in which the Crusaders win the Compass year having to
20:51
Speaker 3: go away from home. But I do think they will
20:54
Speaker 3: sneak into playoffs with just first of all, address the
20:59
Speaker 3: run home. How many how many games do they win
21:01
Speaker 3: in the.
21:01
Speaker 2: Regular I've took them to beat the Blues this week,
21:04
Speaker 2: then they've got the Buy, then they've got the Canes
21:06
Speaker 2: and the Chiefs to finish. They don't leave home for
21:08
Speaker 2: the next three while again we've talked about the home
21:10
Speaker 2: advantage and whether it plays as much, but sleeping your
21:13
Speaker 2: own beds, all that sort of advantage. I have them
21:15
Speaker 2: winning two of those three. I think they'll probably I'm
21:17
Speaker 2: gonna say they beat the Chiefs again, which they did
21:19
Speaker 2: earlier in the season, but lose to the Hurricanes. But
21:22
Speaker 2: I do agree that one win's probably enough to get through.
21:25
Speaker 2: You look at some of these teams, Waratahs and Highlanders
21:28
Speaker 2: will cancel each other out this week, and I think
21:31
Speaker 2: they've got a not going to string together enough points.
21:34
Speaker 2: The Brumbies got question marks over the drawer. You know,
21:37
Speaker 2: coming home with a little bit of a wit sale,
21:39
Speaker 2: but I just wonder whether they've lift they run too late.
21:41
Speaker 2: The Crusader's on twenty seven and the next team being
21:44
Speaker 2: outside the playoffs on twenty I just don't think there's
21:47
Speaker 2: enough runway for the Crusaders to slip out entirely. I
21:51
Speaker 2: get the point from Thomas, yeah, but I just don't
21:52
Speaker 2: think there's enough And it is a really tough run home,
21:55
Speaker 2: but I just don't think there's enough runway for them
21:57
Speaker 2: to slip out of the playoffs.
21:58
Speaker 4: Can they win the comp from here?
22:00
Speaker 2: Yep, I think they can, which you know the Hurricanes.
22:04
Speaker 2: I say that's the Hurricanes plays in the week one.
22:06
Speaker 2: We saw from them last week that they can push
22:08
Speaker 2: the Hurricanes. They had a game plan that look, the
22:10
Speaker 2: Hurricanes were trying to probably a bit better than the
22:12
Speaker 2: Crusaders on the night, but I thought they had a
22:14
Speaker 2: game plan that well, it didn't win. There are signs
22:17
Speaker 2: there that maybe if things clicked, all bounceable games their way.
22:20
Speaker 2: James Dorman calls a forward pass before halftime and also
22:24
Speaker 2: after halftime. I'm not saying the winner, but I think
22:27
Speaker 2: I can see a path with potentially they could win it.
22:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they get in the playoffs. I think
22:33
Speaker 3: three playoff games away from home is too much of
22:36
Speaker 3: an ask and I haven't seen enough from them this year.
22:39
Speaker 3: I think they've been pretty underwhelming on the whole. A
22:42
Speaker 3: lot of heart last week. They've missed a few players
22:44
Speaker 3: Will Jordan in particular, But I haven't seen enough.
22:48
Speaker 2: Fin I haven't seen enough from it a lot of
22:50
Speaker 2: teams this season.
22:52
Speaker 4: I think the Chiefs, the Chiefs and the Hurricanes. Crusader's
22:54
Speaker 4: beat the Chiefs by twenty points.
22:55
Speaker 3: It was a one off, as it was a long
22:57
Speaker 3: time ago, and that's a bit of an aberration for
23:00
Speaker 3: what I've seen from that from the Crusaders this year.
23:02
Speaker 2: What I mean is that I don't think there are capable. Yeah,
23:05
Speaker 2: I don't think outside of the Hurricanes, I don't think
23:07
Speaker 2: they're There's the Corty that we've seen in previous seasons
23:12
Speaker 2: that would suggest that you can draw a line through them.
23:14
Speaker 2: I think there are enough is enough to suggest there
23:17
Speaker 2: is upsets out there and when we get to the
23:19
Speaker 2: playoffs versus previous seasons where.
23:21
Speaker 4: You go, youet home home team will win this Yeah
23:23
Speaker 4: on their day. Look, there's not much between the top
23:26
Speaker 4: four New Zealand teams.
23:28
Speaker 2: Tim Jamison, This has been in the mailbay for a
23:31
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. Now I finally got to it. Elliott, Hey,
23:33
Speaker 2: Elliott question that may or may not be interested. I
23:34
Speaker 2: had troubled digging up the stats. How many games did
23:37
Speaker 2: Dan Carter have at ten for the Crusaders before getting
23:39
Speaker 2: the AB's gig Thinking about it in the context of
23:42
Speaker 2: Reuben Love, You've got to try it at some point.
23:44
Speaker 2: There's that about replacing card after and Boccada wasn't a
23:46
Speaker 2: world class Dan Carter in two thousand and five or
23:49
Speaker 2: four thousand and five. He was a really promising our
23:51
Speaker 2: player at twelve mites that the Sades and Spencer at
23:54
Speaker 2: the AB's ahead of them. Just thought it might be
23:55
Speaker 2: interesting how that might stack up in turns experience at ten,
23:58
Speaker 2: So I did run the numbers. Dan Carter had ten
24:01
Speaker 2: stars for either the Crusaders or Canterbury before he started
24:05
Speaker 2: an All Blacks test at ten. Ten starts now he
24:07
Speaker 2: played a lot of twelve for the Crusaders and Canterbury.
24:10
Speaker 2: Played twelve for the All Blacks obviously for a season
24:12
Speaker 2: and a half before he switched into ten for the
24:14
Speaker 2: game against Italy in two thousand and four, but that
24:16
Speaker 2: is ten games at first class level that he's played.
24:20
Speaker 2: The Ruben Love has had twenty five games at ten
24:24
Speaker 2: for the Hurricanes or Wellingtonington and he's now twenty five.
24:30
Speaker 2: Compared to a Dan Carter was what twenty two? I
24:32
Speaker 2: think when he hear.
24:33
Speaker 3: Nineteen starts for the Hurricanes at ten Rubin Love, Look,
24:37
Speaker 3: Dan Carter is such a special player. He always had
24:41
Speaker 3: time on the ball from such a young age, didn't
24:44
Speaker 3: he whether it was ten, twelve, that time on the
24:47
Speaker 3: ball commodity. He just always had it, and so it's
24:53
Speaker 3: an interesting comparison to make. I think it's probably unfair
24:56
Speaker 3: to compare anyone to Carter. Realistically, Ruben has touches of
25:04
Speaker 3: class about him. I think his game still developing, particularly
25:07
Speaker 3: from a management point of view.
25:09
Speaker 4: I think his.
25:12
Speaker 3: Development has been stunted by the All Blacks by not
25:15
Speaker 3: giving him enough time, whether that be at ten or fifteen,
25:17
Speaker 3: and that hasn't helped me the bouncing between the two positions.
25:20
Speaker 3: It's only really this year that he's come out public
25:22
Speaker 3: man and said I want to be a ten.
25:25
Speaker 2: And if Britt Cameron wasn't injured, who knows whether he
25:28
Speaker 2: would be playing ten. Maybe Callum Harkin is on the
25:30
Speaker 2: bench of the Hurricanes and Ruben Love's back at fifteen,
25:32
Speaker 2: So there's been a circumstance there that is dictated. I
25:35
Speaker 2: do think over the last twenty years or so, we've
25:38
Speaker 2: become very conservative in terms of our all black selections.
25:43
Speaker 2: There's been basically tenured players in there. You look back
25:46
Speaker 2: to I was watching on YouTube the other day. I
25:48
Speaker 2: don't know how I came across it, but it was
25:50
Speaker 2: the probablest Possibles game from two thousand and four at
25:52
Speaker 2: Eden Park, start of Graham Henry's tenure, and you look
25:55
Speaker 2: at some of the players there, and yes, it was
25:57
Speaker 2: a start of a tenure, but there was a real
26:00
Speaker 2: picking on form sort of scenario there. Yes, said obviously
26:03
Speaker 2: some incumbents and players that have been around them, with
26:05
Speaker 2: some injuries as well. For a call Rightley Carter was
26:07
Speaker 2: actually injured for that game and didn't play, but that
26:11
Speaker 2: Merton's coming off the bench. They had all sorts of
26:13
Speaker 2: different players that had played well in that Super Rugby
26:16
Speaker 2: season and got their opportunities. Now, I think we look
26:19
Speaker 2: at it as a four year cycle probably more, and
26:22
Speaker 2: you know, building plays through. But I just think we're
26:24
Speaker 2: a little bit more risk averse. Whereas twenty years ago
26:27
Speaker 2: they would have checked to Rubin Love in at ten.
26:30
Speaker 2: After a couple of years now we just don't seem
26:32
Speaker 2: to do that well.
26:33
Speaker 3: The Welsh Test last year was a prime example that
26:35
Speaker 3: Ruben Love should have started at ten. How much do
26:38
Speaker 3: you gain by playing Damien McKenzie at ten in that game?
26:41
Speaker 3: You could play them at fifteen and that transpires for
26:45
Speaker 3: the greatest rivalry tour in South Africa. Let's just say
26:50
Speaker 3: that rich and Monga initially doesn't go on that tour
26:53
Speaker 3: because at this stage is not eligible as to play
26:55
Speaker 3: for Canterbury. Wouldn't be shocked at all. Offends up over
26:59
Speaker 3: there at some point. But you're looking at Ruben Love,
27:01
Speaker 3: Damien McKenzie and Boden Barut. Now, in my mind Ruben
27:05
Speaker 3: Love should be a bolted on, guaranteed starter for those
27:09
Speaker 3: four games. I'm wrong against the South African Super rugby
27:13
Speaker 3: teams again, you're not going to get anything out of
27:18
Speaker 3: starting McKenzie at ten or Bowden at ten.
27:21
Speaker 4: You know what they can do?
27:22
Speaker 2: Well? Was that too far down the track though? I mean,
27:23
Speaker 2: should he be starting at ten against.
27:25
Speaker 4: Front which a couple of months.
27:26
Speaker 2: I no, no, I know, but like almost starting him
27:29
Speaker 2: in those two games, is he capable of starting at
27:31
Speaker 2: ten against Fronts in the first Test of the year.
27:34
Speaker 3: Probably yes. I think we need to see a wee
27:36
Speaker 3: bit more from him. The only Crunch game. Well, not
27:41
Speaker 3: only we've seen him against the Crusaders, but I think
27:43
Speaker 3: back to the Chiefs and Hamilton and even then there
27:46
Speaker 3: was elements of his game. I'm like, I would like
27:48
Speaker 3: to said do that or I'm sure he'll take, you know,
27:52
Speaker 3: learn from that experience. But yeah, there's an argument that's
27:58
Speaker 3: throwmer Now, why not Boden Barretts what thirty six? Damien
28:04
Speaker 3: Mckinziy's had many cracks, nailed some of them not others,
28:09
Speaker 3: So there is an argument. But for me, it's just
28:13
Speaker 3: going to South Africa. Those games over there, You're not
28:16
Speaker 3: going to get that experience of playing in front of
28:19
Speaker 3: pack stadiums, experiencing Africa in South Africa, and then if
28:23
Speaker 3: he nails those opportunities, then it really does light up
28:27
Speaker 3: that conversation about where he sits in the picking order.
28:30
Speaker 2: Find a question for the mail Bag this week. Aaron
28:32
Speaker 2: from Audiawa sees love the pod guys lot's been talked
28:35
Speaker 2: about with players leaving for overseas. Is there anything INSIDAR
28:38
Speaker 2: can do about this or is it as simple as
28:40
Speaker 2: they can't pay off? Also, would you still pick a
28:42
Speaker 2: player like Fiji being the form player but knowing he
28:45
Speaker 2: is leaving? Of course, Stephen Flanders joining that list this
28:49
Speaker 2: week you reporter on the podcast a couple of weeks back,
28:51
Speaker 2: that was likely confirmed on Monday. First part of the
28:56
Speaker 2: question then, is there anything insid I can do about this? Well,
28:59
Speaker 2: not really. Unfortunately, they just don't have the financials to
29:02
Speaker 2: offer what Newcastle rebul can offer, what a French team
29:05
Speaker 2: can offer, what a Japanese team can offer. What they
29:07
Speaker 2: can offer is the All Blacks Jersey. Now there seems
29:11
Speaker 2: to be a conversation point that comes up every week
29:14
Speaker 2: or two. Is the All Blacks Juwsey losing its aura? Well,
29:17
Speaker 2: yes and no, it still has an aura. But also
29:20
Speaker 2: team professional rugby is only really and it's infancy thirty
29:25
Speaker 2: one years old. The game is evolving and changing around
29:28
Speaker 2: what players expect to get out of it, so there
29:30
Speaker 2: is a fine balance there. But ultimately they just don't
29:33
Speaker 2: have the coffers to pay some of these players enough.
29:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does seem like it's worse this year than
29:41
Speaker 3: maybe this time in the previous cycle. I read a
29:45
Speaker 3: report from Paul Cully about Joanah Lowe and Tannye La
29:48
Speaker 3: Talia probably leaving the Highlanders. Then you've got Devin Flanders,
29:53
Speaker 3: massive blow really for the Hurricanes, and you know, just
29:57
Speaker 3: a shame for a guy that's been on the cusp,
30:00
Speaker 3: is in career best form to be leaving at that stage,
30:04
Speaker 3: And is that middle tier that's vulnerable, say the twenty
30:07
Speaker 3: five six seven year olds who have accumulated that experience,
30:11
Speaker 3: who are incredibly valuable to their super rugby teams, who
30:13
Speaker 3: can sometimes double triple their earnings abroad, very very hard
30:17
Speaker 3: to retain those players. I think the one thing that
30:19
Speaker 3: you could explore, and it would evolve changing the parameters
30:22
Speaker 3: around salary caps and maybe even how the.
30:25
Speaker 4: Players are paid.
30:26
Speaker 3: But if wealthy backers of these teams, Sam Malcolm Gillies
30:30
Speaker 3: wants to go out and pay Fenn young enough for
30:33
Speaker 3: another hundred two hundred k whatever it is to stay
30:38
Speaker 3: and play for the Hurricanes, why stop them? Yeah, if
30:41
Speaker 3: that allows you to retain these players, there must be
30:44
Speaker 3: a mechanism that you can we.
30:46
Speaker 2: Get have a market player or something like that, but
30:48
Speaker 2: play outside the salary cap or outside the cap that
30:53
Speaker 2: you know you can play pay third party arrangements or
30:56
Speaker 2: whatever it might be.
30:57
Speaker 3: That might not be fair because not all teams can
30:59
Speaker 3: reach that threshold. But if it means a Fagi or
31:02
Speaker 3: a Devin Flanders or a branden enor stays for the Crusaders,
31:08
Speaker 3: then that's a good thing, isn't it.
31:09
Speaker 2: It is second part of the question. Would you still
31:12
Speaker 2: pick a player like Fairhi being the form player but
31:15
Speaker 2: knowing he's leaving? It's an interesting question given the South
31:19
Speaker 2: African tour this year, like do you classify that as
31:23
Speaker 2: the next biggest thing behind a World Cup? Now? Would
31:25
Speaker 2: you pick a form player for a World Cup knowing
31:27
Speaker 2: they're leaving next year? Tricky question? You think that's twenty fifteen.
31:31
Speaker 2: Charles Patow missed out on the Rugby World Cup because
31:34
Speaker 2: he was going after that season for he is uncapped obviously.
31:38
Speaker 3: Same situation Mark Talia last year. Yes, he signed to
31:41
Speaker 3: go to Japan and wasn't selecting the All Blacks. Beyond that,
31:43
Speaker 3: Fortunately Sevary's got a few more caps. Yes, thankfully Caleb
31:48
Speaker 3: tongueytail will finally surpass him.
31:51
Speaker 4: No, I wouldn't.
31:52
Speaker 3: I don't think there's anything to gain by investing in
31:55
Speaker 3: someone's development when they are about to leave, unless they
31:59
Speaker 3: are committed to coming back. And you get much more
32:02
Speaker 3: out of bringing in a Caleb tongueytowl. As unfortunate and
32:05
Speaker 3: disappointing as it is that we're losing. Fore, he'll be
32:08
Speaker 3: back one day, but I personally wouldn't pick him, And
32:13
Speaker 3: the way the eligibility is set up, you can't beyond
32:17
Speaker 3: once he's left anyway.
32:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's too tricky. Look, I do play,
32:20
Speaker 2: you know, obviously significant importance on this tour coming up,
32:23
Speaker 2: and you should have your best players available to play.
32:26
Speaker 2: But when you've also got to work up the following year,
32:28
Speaker 2: it's a really tricky one. You need you to have
32:30
Speaker 2: your best players playing rugby combinations, all that sort of thing.
32:35
Speaker 2: You know, someone like a nihim La Scudder go back
32:37
Speaker 2: to twenty fifteen, came in straight in that year, bang,
32:40
Speaker 2: you know, and he's in a World Cup final. There
32:42
Speaker 2: is still room for a player like that. But I
32:44
Speaker 2: just don't know that you'd go with someone like Fiji
32:45
Speaker 2: this year. I think you've got more to lose potentially
32:48
Speaker 2: by you know, by putting him in the team and
32:51
Speaker 2: then blocking a department development of cab taking Tawe or
32:55
Speaker 2: someone like that, versus what the benefits you get out
32:58
Speaker 2: of him.
32:58
Speaker 3: So yeah, it might be a different conversation if the
33:01
Speaker 3: All Blacks were allowed to select two three players from offshore.
33:06
Speaker 3: But even then there's probably caveats around how many caps
33:09
Speaker 3: or how many years they had to play, which he
33:11
Speaker 3: probably wouldn't satisfy.
33:12
Speaker 2: No, and look there's a genuine argue and he probably
33:14
Speaker 2: should have been looked at last year for the All Blacks.
33:15
Speaker 2: He was in very good form for the Hurricanes, you know,
33:17
Speaker 2: Kennenahlo was as well.
33:19
Speaker 3: And yet here we are absolutely probably should have been
33:22
Speaker 3: on that All Blacks fifteen tour.
33:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll do us. For Rugby Direct. You can of
33:26
Speaker 2: course get in touch with the mail bag. We dig
33:28
Speaker 2: through it every Thursday or thereabouts Rugby Direct at news
33:31
Speaker 2: Talk ZEDB dot co dot in z. Will be back
33:34
Speaker 2: early part of next week to review round fifteen of
33:37
Speaker 2: Super Rapy Specific thanks to Mark Kelly producing that has
33:41
Speaker 2: been Rapy Directs powered by insid Safety Blacklet's Everything, Trade's
33:45
Speaker 2: need Sort.
33:52
Speaker 1: For more from News Talk ZEDB, listen live on air
33:55
Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
33:58
Speaker 1: go with our podcast on iHeartRadio