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380: When You're the Dysregulated One, with Penny Williams · Beautifully Complex

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the most dysregulated person in the room isn't your child.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's you. And that doesn't make you a bad parent.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It makes you human. Today, I'm talking about what's really
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: happening when you lose it with your kid, why two
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: stressed nervous systems pull each other further into the fire,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and what you can do in that moment and after
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to find your way back to steady. I'm sharing my
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: own story as a recovering yeller, plus the simple breath,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the words, and the repair that change everything. I'm Penny Williams,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: and this is Beautifully Complex. Welcome back, everyone. I am
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: here to talk to you today about when you are
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: actually the one who is dysregulated. And maybe you're dysregulated
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: in addition to your kid, but you are definitely dysregulated. Look,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: this happens to all of us because this is the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: way we are wired. I was just sharing in a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: coaching call this morning with some parents about how I
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: started out as a yeller. I was always yelling to
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: try to get my kids' attention. because he was like
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the Energizer bunny. He was just going, going, going. And
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I couldn't like break through that, I didn't feel like,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: without yelling because I would get to a point where
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I was just so frustrated. Like, I need you to
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: listen to me and we need to do these things
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and get out the door. And the only way that
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I knew at the time to make that happen was
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: to yell, to raise my voice, to get more intense.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: What I didn't yet know was that I was actually
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: escalating the situation. I was co-escalating with my kid. I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: was dysregulated, my kid was dysregulated, and now we have
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: sort of both jumped into the fire together, and that
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't help. Because each of our nervous systems is reading
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the nervous system of everyone in the room for signals
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: of either safety or threat. And when we are dysregulated,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Those other nervous systems are reading threat. They are getting
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: signals of threat from our dysregulation. So that's why it's
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: important for us not to be dysregulated all the time, right?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: To try to work on not slipping into dysregulation every
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: single time. It's going to happen sometimes, no matter how
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: good you get at your own self-care and regulation. I
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: promise you, it happens to everyone. I've had years of
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: practicing this now And there are times where I get
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: dysregulated by another, but they are fewer and farther between.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: And I haven't yelled at a kid in a really, really,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: really long time, like a decade or more probably. So
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: there is hope no matter how much difficulty you're having
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: with getting regulated, staying regulated when you're faced with a
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: kid who's dysregulated. There is hope. You can work on this.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: You can help your own nervous system to feel more
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: safe more of the time. So we've talked about this
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: contagion between our two nervous systems. And like I said,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I call that co-escalation. We're both dysregulated, and then those
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: two dysregulated beings together end up further escalating each other.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: So We think about co-regulation where we have a regulated
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: nervous system and it's helping a potentially dysregulated nervous system
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: settle because it's sending cues of safety from that regulated
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: nervous system, right, to the one that needs it. But
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: the flip side, the opposite of that co-regulation is what
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: we've been talking about, that co-escalation. And escalating is also
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: adding to our stress load, adding to our exhaustion. It
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: is fueling burnout for you. And it is burning your capacity.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: It is using up your battery so much faster because
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: those more stressful, intense moments for any human are going
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to take more capacity to get through than regulated moments.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: For those of you who are also neurodivergent yourself, that
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: is further shaping how you respond. If you have a
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: kid who has a hard time with ambiguity and you
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: have a hard time with that yourself, you are going
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: to even more naturally co-escalate each other in those moments.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So how do you work on being able to stay
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: more regulated during those moments? you have more practice at
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: that because you're the adult. And that's why we ask you,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: the adult, to do it. It's not that you matter less,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: you matter equally, but you have more practice doing that.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And so the hope is that you can come into
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: these situations a little more settled, a little more steady,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and then that is going to help your child to
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: be able to regulate. You're being that beacon of safety
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: for your kid. When you're neurodivergent yourself, it takes even
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: more of that work on your own regulation, your own
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: nervous system, your own self-care to be able to show
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: up more regulated. I want to add here and make
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: it really clear that there are times when you are
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: not going to be able to co-regulate, you're not going
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to be able to self-regulate, and sometimes those are the
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: moments when you probably need to remove yourself from the
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: situation if you can do so and keep your kid
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: and yourself safe. Because if we cannot regulate, if we
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: are only going to add escalation, there is no point
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: for us being there most of the time. Again, if
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: it is a safety issue, you must stay, right? If
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: you have a kid, who feels rejected when you walk
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: away when they're having a hard time. You need to
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: stay present, but that doesn't mean that you need to
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: stay engaged in conversation and engaged in escalating each other.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: You're applying the same lens that you use for your
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: child for yourself. So when we talk about behavior as communication,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: behavior as a signal, look at your own behavior sometimes
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: And ask yourself, what is it signaling that I need?
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: When we talk about it in terms of our kids,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: we say, what is that behavior signaling that this child needs?
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Why are they having a hard time meeting expectations? Why
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: are they having a hard time managing big emotions? We
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: need to also ask the same questions for ourselves. Why
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: am I having such a hard time with these big
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: emotions that I'm having right now? My body... is giving
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: me this sensation or that sensation? What are those sensations
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: signaling that I need in this moment or that I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: need more of in my life in general more frequently?
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Yelling and shutting down, it tells you a lot about
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: your state. When I was yelling at my kid in
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the mornings trying to get shoes on and backpacks and
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: get out the door for school on time, it was
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: telling me that I was frustrated. I was having a
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: hard time managing that frustration. And I didn't feel like
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I had the tools to get things done and get
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: out the door on time without escalating, without yelling, right?
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: So it was telling me a lot about my nervous
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: system state. It was telling me a lot about what
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I needed, what I was struggling with. But it was
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: not telling me anything about my character or my parenting
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: because I was doing the best that I could in
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: that moment. And so are you. So when you're struggling
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: with parenting, when you're dysregulated and you're unable to offer co-regulation,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: it's not a character flaw. It's not that you're a,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: air quotes here, bad parent. It's that you are doing
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: the best you can with the skills you have, with
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the capacity you have. In that very moment, don't attach
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: any more meaning to it than that. What is it
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: signaling that you need? That's it. You're doing the best
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: you can. You get grace. Your kid gets grace, right?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit more about how to notice
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: those early warning signs. Body cues. What happens when you
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: start to get a little bit sort of feeling out
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: of whack? Does your stomach start to rumble or tumble?
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Do you maybe notice that there's tension in your muscles?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe your shoulders or your neck gets tensed up. Maybe
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you clench your teeth or your jaw. Maybe if you're
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: going into more of a shutdown state instead of a
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: fight or flight state, are you sort of disengaging? Are
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: you pulling back? Are you craving to go be in
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: a dark corner or a quiet corner? What is your
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: body cuing to you? What is it trying to say?
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: The first way to understand that is to notice the cues, right?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Notice when your muscles get tense. Notice when you really
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: wish you could go sit in a quiet corner. Take
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: action on that. But that first step is always building
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: that awareness. We can't address something we are unaware of.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Could it also be a trigger like noise, time pressure,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: feeling like other people are judging you and your parenting?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: All of those things can dysregulate you as the parent
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: or the caregiver. And all of those things are signals
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: of something that you need. It's not a signal that
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: you need to be regulated. I don't want you to
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: take that from this conversation. It is a signal that
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: you have a need, not that you need to be
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: regulated for others. What is the need that you have
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: for yourself? That's the question we're asking here. In the moment,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: what do we do? I get this question almost daily.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: What do I do when I am in that moment?
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I am dysregulated, but my kid could use a regulated
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: adult right now. If you can, take a very deep
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: belly breath, blow it out as slow as you can,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: pucker your lips and blow it out. That's even more
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: calming to the nervous system. This is something I learned
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: really recently from the work of Andrew Huberman. It gets
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: us into a deep relaxation, not sleep state, our nervous system.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: So if you can take a big, very gentle, not
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: exasperated sounding breath, because your kid will read that exasperation
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and it's going to escalate even though it is meant
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: to do the opposite for both of you. So I
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: would encourage you to maybe put your hand on your
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: chest or your hand on your heart, maybe both hands. Like, oh,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: this is challenging. This is hard, right? So you're communicating
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to your kid's nervous system that you get it. But
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: if that isn't enough, if you're still unable to start
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: to move toward regulation, because it's not a switch that
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: we flip, you're not going to take a big belly
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: breath and then immediately go from dysregulated to dysregulated. Our bodies,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: our biology doesn't work that way. So what we're trying
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to do is give our own body cues of safety,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: do the things that our biology, our nervous system needs
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: so that the nervous system can start regulating and moving
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: closer toward regulation. So we've had that belly breath where
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: we have a lot of empathy for the situation written
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: all over our face, all over our bodily expressions, like
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: putting our hands on our chest, And we're going to ask,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: how can I help you? What can I do to help?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I really want to help you. I see that you're
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: having a hard time. Is there something I can do
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: right now that you will feel like helps you? If
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: they say go away, honor that. That is them telling
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: you what they need very clearly. You can leave them
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to have some time again, as long as they're safe.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: And if you're struggling with dysregulation yourself in that moment,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: then them saying they need some time alone is a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: gift to you and your nervous system. Don't argue with it, okay? If,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: like I said earlier, you are just ramping up and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: ramping up with your own dysregulation, find a way to
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: take a break. And you can even explain this to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: your kid. Explain the science to them. wow, I am
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: feeling really dysregulated. My body and my nervous system is
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: not feeling safe right now. And it's making it really
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: hard for me to control what I say and what
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I do. And I feel like maybe you can relate
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: to that. Maybe it's happening in your body also. And
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: we just can't use our thinking brain right now. We
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: can't problem solve because our bodyguard has taken over. So
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: let's get a break. Let's let our bodyguard feel safe
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: again so that we can get back to our thinking
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: brain and we can actually work together to solve this
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: problem that you're having. It is a relief to your
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: child to understand why their behavior is outside of their control.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: It also gives you a very easy way to get
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: a break from the situation if you are dysregulated yourself.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And you're not having any positive impact on that. You're
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: not able to move even a little bit toward regulation.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: It's better to take a break, to walk away from
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the situation. Again, if your kid isn't going to feel
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: rejected by that and work on being able to come
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: back together when you both have access to your thinking
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: brain again, and you can use all of those skills
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: that are stored up there in that thinking brain to
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: solve that problem. Repair also matters here. If you're unable
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: to stay regulated, if you do things and say things
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: that you wish you didn't, it's okay. It's okay because
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you're a human being and we all make mistakes. No
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: one is perfect. So it is okay when you make
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a mistake, when you do and say things that you
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: wish you hadn't. What matters in those moments is repair.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: coming back to your kid when everyone is feeling better
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and just talking to them with pure transparency and honesty.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I know that I yelled earlier and I really don't
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: want to yell at you. I never want that. But
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes my bodyguard feels like it has to take over
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and fight to protect me. And I'm really very sorry
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that that happened. You're modeling repair. You're modeling regulation. You're
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: modeling accountability for your behavior. You're modeling that you're a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: human and humans make mistakes. Those are all wonderful parenting traits, okay?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: So don't shame yourself. Don't judge yourself. Don't call yourself
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: a bad parent. Give yourself grace. Do what you need
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to do to take care of yourself, what you need
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: in that moment. What was your body saying that it needed?
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And then come back and repair later. Your kid will
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: appreciate that much more than a parent who tries to
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: be perfect or than a parent who can't handle their
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: own frustration and never notices it or apologizes for it. Now,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: we don't just wanna talk about dysregulation in these hard moments.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: We wanna get proactive. How can you get proactive so
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: that you're able to stay more settled and steady when
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: you are in the midst of hard moments? That's the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: big question, right? That's the thing that we really want
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to lean as much as our time and energy into
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: as we can. And that proactivity looks like self-care, stress management,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and taking care of your own nervous system. What brings
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: you joy? What brings you glimmers? Glimmers are these little
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: points where your nervous system just has kind of this
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: breath of fresh air of safety. For me, it's a
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: really sculptural old tree. It's a bright blue sky with
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: big fluffy white clouds. It's my feet in the sand.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It's like pulling my arms and legs in tight under
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: a warm, cozy blanket. So what can you do more
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of that gives your nervous system those glimmers that makes
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: your body feel safer? Keep weaving that into your day-to-day.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: We're not asking you to add an hour to your
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: day to do this. It can be as little as
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: three to five minutes a day and have a really
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: big impact. This is also going to help to fill
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: your own battery so that you have more capacity to
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: handle those hard moments. So what have we learned here?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be a perfect parent because you
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: can't be because you're a human. You're going to make
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: mistakes and that's okay. You're going to be dysregulated sometimes
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and that's okay. And ultimately, the answer for all of
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: that is to repair when you need to, and to
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: work on your own health, your own wellness, your own
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: nervous system safety so that you can feel settled and
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: steady yourself, not even so that you can show up
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: steady and settled for your kid. That's important, of course,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: but also so that you can experience that for yourself
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: because you matter too. I hope you find this helpful
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: for that next time that you find yourself really struggling
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: with dysregulation in the moment. And I hope you also
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: find this helpful for the work that you can do
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: for yourself so you don't find yourself dysregulated in tough
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: moments as much. There's always going to be some of it,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: but we can reduce those instances when we take care
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: of ourselves too and not just our children. Thanks for listening, everyone.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Thanks for being here. I'm so honored to be just
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: a tiny part of your parenting journey. And I hope
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: to see you next time. Take good care. Visit beautifully-complex.com
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: for more resources, coaching, and parent training. And help another
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: kid by sharing this with someone who could benefit from listening.