Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / HELL PIX: HORROR PHOTOS INSIDE IDAHO MURDERS AFTER KOHBERGER SLAUGHTERS STUDENTS, PARENTS SUE

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HELL PIX: HORROR PHOTOS INSIDE IDAHO MURDERS AFTER KOHBERGER SLAUGHTERS STUDENTS, PARENTS SUE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace hell Picks pictures straight from Hell.
0:11
Speaker 1: Horrific photos from inside the brutal Idaho murders of four
0:20
Speaker 1: beautiful young University Idaho students. Why were those photos leaked
0:28
Speaker 1: on the Idaho State Police website and then quickly scrubbed away? Hello,
0:34
Speaker 1: everybody saw it. This after Brian Coberger slaughters innocent students.
0:41
Speaker 1: The parents sue, do you blame them? I'm Nancy Grece.
0:47
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
0:49
Speaker 1: being with us inside the Brian Coburger murder scene. The
0:53
Speaker 1: truth of what happened that night when four beautiful University
0:57
Speaker 1: Idaho students were slaughtered in their own beds.
1:01
Speaker 2: This would have been a blood bask where they were killed.
1:03
Speaker 1: Now, the family that's still dealing with the brutal murder
1:07
Speaker 1: of their children are having to take on a fight,
1:09
Speaker 1: so these vile photos are not released. What in the
1:16
Speaker 1: hay haven't the victim's families been through enough? I cannot
1:21
Speaker 1: imagine last night, under immense pressure for our program to
1:26
Speaker 1: show the photos. I looked at them. I had to
1:30
Speaker 1: get on the phone with our investigative reporter, Dave Mack,
1:34
Speaker 1: and actually broke down and cried looking at these photos,
1:38
Speaker 1: and there is no way in h double l that
1:42
Speaker 1: we're going to go along with leaked photos that just
1:44
Speaker 1: destroy the families. I saw only one probative photo off
1:52
Speaker 1: what was leaked. The rest was just gore. One probative
1:56
Speaker 1: photo that actually meant something, that proved something, and that
1:59
Speaker 1: was the location of the life Sheath. Joining me right
2:02
Speaker 1: now to very special guests, the parents of the beautiful
2:08
Speaker 1: Keilly Gonsolvis. Thank you to both of you for being
2:12
Speaker 1: with us. It means so much that at this moment,
2:19
Speaker 1: when you are under siege again again, that you take
2:25
Speaker 1: time to be with us tonight. So thank you. I've
2:31
Speaker 1: got so much to talk to you about. Of course,
2:33
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger's sister does a New York Times article whining
2:37
Speaker 1: about how hurt she is and the paint her family's
2:40
Speaker 1: going through. Really, but before I get to her, what
2:45
Speaker 1: about these photos? When did you now? This is what
2:49
Speaker 1: we're learning, Christy, We are learning that the Idho State
2:54
Speaker 1: Police put these on their website and then quickly row
2:58
Speaker 1: and scrub the whole thing. They were linked onto the website.
3:02
Speaker 1: What did what happened when you first learned these pictures
3:07
Speaker 1: from Hell Hell had been released.
3:12
Speaker 3: Well, actually, one of the Idaho State Police detectives called
3:17
Speaker 3: Olivia and I told her that the photos were coming
3:21
Speaker 3: out and they were a different entity as the other
3:25
Speaker 3: ones were that were underneath the order that the laramies
3:30
Speaker 3: and the chapins one.
3:33
Speaker 4: Being able to not show bodies.
3:35
Speaker 3: Or blood, and these were going to be a little different.
3:38
Speaker 3: The bodies were going to be redacted, but the crime
3:41
Speaker 3: scene was going to be pretty evident.
3:43
Speaker 4: So this entity called Olivia.
3:46
Speaker 3: By the time she got off the phone, she was
3:48
Speaker 3: calling me in a panic and telling me that they
3:51
Speaker 3: were coming out. They were coming out, and they were out.
3:53
Speaker 3: They were already on the website. Olivia is pretty adamant about,
3:59
Speaker 3: you know, viewing things and wants to know what's out there.
4:03
Speaker 3: She doesn't just want to come problem something and be surprised.
4:06
Speaker 3: So somewhere along the line, it was very apparent that
4:10
Speaker 3: there were three pictures that showed the victims that did
4:16
Speaker 3: not get redacted, and it came down. It came down
4:22
Speaker 3: because there were three, but whoever had downloaded those in
4:25
Speaker 3: that time frame before, I don't know how long it was.
4:28
Speaker 4: Up have those pictures of actual victims.
4:32
Speaker 5: So it's very sad this whole thing has turned into
4:35
Speaker 5: a profit making enterprise. The day before they told us
4:41
Speaker 5: that because somebody complained, they did foia requests that the
4:45
Speaker 5: families were getting the photos. At the same time, we
4:47
Speaker 5: no longer get the photos. We never get We don't
4:49
Speaker 5: get any of the discovery from these images or anything
4:53
Speaker 5: that's been a foyer request. They get it first, and
4:56
Speaker 5: then we can we can get it after them.
4:59
Speaker 1: Did you see a photo with the students. I'm trying
5:05
Speaker 1: to choose my words carefully, but I don't have another
5:10
Speaker 1: way to say it. Did you see photos crime scene photos? Horrific,
5:15
Speaker 1: bloody crime scene photos with the victims' bodies in the photos.
5:20
Speaker 1: Did you see that? Unfortunately, yes, I don't understand why
5:29
Speaker 1: they can't ever do the right thing. Steve. They did
5:33
Speaker 1: not take this case to trial. They did not find
5:36
Speaker 1: out the truth. This was a death penalty case. If
5:38
Speaker 1: we're going to have the death penalty, this is it.
5:41
Speaker 1: They took a week, plea, we never learned the whole truth.
5:49
Speaker 1: They wouldn't do the right thing, and now this they
5:52
Speaker 1: are buckling under to a four year request, but they
5:56
Speaker 1: don't even have the courtesy to give it to you first.
6:00
Speaker 1: When did they pick and choose when to follow the law.
6:04
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, just to the other family that ever goes
6:07
Speaker 5: through a case like this, just know they're going to
6:09
Speaker 5: lie to you. They're going to tell you, in your
6:11
Speaker 5: weakest moment that if you just wanted to make it
6:14
Speaker 5: go away, just go along with the pleague, just go along,
6:18
Speaker 5: and all the stuff will go away. And I had
6:20
Speaker 5: legal counsel and they were like, that's not going to
6:23
Speaker 5: go away. See, they're just lying to these families, trying
6:25
Speaker 5: to divide them so that they can get at least
6:28
Speaker 5: somebody to agree with what they're doing, and then that's
6:32
Speaker 5: all they need. Even though there's four victims and you
6:34
Speaker 5: can get a death penalty for one, they wanted to
6:37
Speaker 5: break us apart to help their narrative. And we're still
6:41
Speaker 5: dealing with it. You know, we're still dealing with right now.
6:44
Speaker 1: Well, I've got to tell you something, mister and missus Consolvis.
6:48
Speaker 1: After my fiancee was murdered, of course, I was a
6:51
Speaker 1: witness at the trial, and I remember coming down off
6:54
Speaker 1: the witness stand. I had never been in a courtroom.
6:56
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about the justice system at all.
7:00
Speaker 1: When I came off the witness stand, it was way
7:02
Speaker 1: high up by the judge's head came down. Then there
7:06
Speaker 1: was a landing, then there were more steps to come down,
7:10
Speaker 1: and I walked out and I looked over it and
7:12
Speaker 1: I saw a kid's bloody shirt. And I was just
7:16
Speaker 1: a young girl. But I will never forget that moment.
7:19
Speaker 1: I had not seen it. I didn't know about it.
7:22
Speaker 1: I knew what he was wearing that morning when he left.
7:24
Speaker 1: It was a denim shirt to go to his job
7:26
Speaker 1: at a construction site. But I had not seen did
7:30
Speaker 1: not see any of the evidence until I saw that
7:33
Speaker 1: his bloody clothes lying on the council table, And that
7:37
Speaker 1: one moment has crystallized in my mind after all these years.
7:42
Speaker 1: So I don't know how you can even close your
7:44
Speaker 1: eyes and go to sleep at night after you've seen
7:48
Speaker 1: the crime scene photos that were leaped and then scrubbed
7:52
Speaker 1: on the police site. What did that do to you? Christy?
7:58
Speaker 3: So so you know, I chose to.
8:04
Speaker 4: Look very quickly.
8:07
Speaker 3: Unfortunately sometimes it just gets me other times, I know,
8:10
Speaker 3: but I was like, I got, you know, and it
8:13
Speaker 3: was I did not look a lot. I did not look,
8:16
Speaker 3: you know, for long. I pretty much was out of there,
8:21
Speaker 3: like quickly. But it's hard to unsee and I knew that,
8:28
Speaker 3: I knew that.
8:29
Speaker 1: I knew it would happen.
8:30
Speaker 5: What about it, Steve, I haven't seen very many on
8:33
Speaker 5: The ones that I've seen are just ones that my
8:37
Speaker 5: family wanted me to comment on if if if it
8:40
Speaker 5: was as bad as you know, basically show me seeing
8:43
Speaker 5: the victims in embody bags, things that are they're not entertainment.
8:48
Speaker 5: I mean, they're they're for investigations. They're there, and if
8:51
Speaker 5: you're not going to have a child, you really don't
8:53
Speaker 5: have the same investigation at that point. It's not a
8:56
Speaker 5: need to know, it's not the community and you're not
8:59
Speaker 5: having a jury. So it's it's kind of frustrating that
9:01
Speaker 5: we're still still doing.
9:03
Speaker 3: And you know, we get a lot of heat over
9:04
Speaker 3: this because people say, you guys are no different. It
9:08
Speaker 3: is very common for crime scene photos to come out.
9:10
Speaker 4: I get that. I understand that.
9:12
Speaker 3: I feel bad for those families that their loved ones
9:14
Speaker 3: are out there.
9:15
Speaker 4: And this has happened.
9:16
Speaker 3: But I just feel like times are changing and what
9:19
Speaker 3: people do with those photos nowadays is what the real
9:23
Speaker 3: problem is. You know, blow them up on social media
9:26
Speaker 3: and analyze them and talk to talk about them, you know,
9:29
Speaker 3: it's not true crime anymore. It's troll crime, you know.
9:32
Speaker 3: And that's where things are changing, and it has been
9:36
Speaker 3: for quite a while.
9:36
Speaker 5: They're making a profit off your your did loved ones
9:39
Speaker 5: and that was good, yeah, and that was to a
9:43
Speaker 5: lesser extent before. But like your organization isn't showing them,
9:48
Speaker 5: You're not going to get that same kind of professionalism
9:51
Speaker 5: in some of these smaller true crimes.
9:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, crime stories with Nancy Grace. I remember years ago
10:08
Speaker 1: on what was it was my very first book. It
10:11
Speaker 1: was called Objection, and I wrote a chapter on called
10:14
Speaker 1: blood Money, and I was so stunned that people got
10:20
Speaker 1: a hold of Nicole Brown's autopsy photos and were selling them.
10:26
Speaker 1: After I wrote that chapter blood Money, I had this
10:29
Speaker 1: cheap little it was like a two hundred dollars laptop.
10:32
Speaker 1: It's like this big that I wrote the book on.
10:35
Speaker 1: When I finished that chapter, I had to look up
10:38
Speaker 1: so many ghoulish examples of what we're talking about right now.
10:43
Speaker 1: I swear I thought the computer had to be hanked
10:45
Speaker 1: and I destroyed it because I had to write about
10:49
Speaker 1: people buying crime scene photos and scraps from a crime
10:55
Speaker 1: scene that were bloody and autopsy photos it's just ghoulish.
11:02
Speaker 1: After you saw that, after you saw that, to both
11:08
Speaker 1: of you, how did that affect you? Because I still
11:12
Speaker 1: think back on that moment, I just saw a bloody shirt.
11:17
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not sure if I've really been able
11:20
Speaker 3: to wrap my mind around it. Honestly, I showed I
11:27
Speaker 3: don't believe you've actually looked at him on your own.
11:29
Speaker 3: I showed Steve one and it was one of the
11:34
Speaker 3: less graphic ones, and he was like, yeah. So unfortunately
11:45
Speaker 3: I went there and I deeply regretted.
11:50
Speaker 1: I knew I would. I I've got to tell you
11:53
Speaker 1: something I learned, you know, the hard way. I'm very
11:57
Speaker 1: curious by nature, but when it comes to my fiance's murder,
12:03
Speaker 1: I've learned to control that my curiosity because I don't
12:08
Speaker 1: want any more nightmares or any more night terrors or
12:11
Speaker 1: sleepwalking or crying jags than I've already had. So I
12:16
Speaker 1: just please know you are in our thoughts and our
12:19
Speaker 1: prayers throughout this whole ordeal, and to put it up
12:23
Speaker 1: and then scrub it shows a certain degree of knowledge
12:27
Speaker 1: that you did the wrong thing. I want to talk
12:31
Speaker 1: to you now about another coburger related incident. Listen now,
12:38
Speaker 1: Coburger's sister.
12:40
Speaker 6: Her name she goes by Mel, spoke to The New
12:44
Speaker 6: York Times. This piece was published on Wednesday, January seventh.
12:49
Speaker 6: The headline her brother murdered for students. Now she's ready
12:54
Speaker 6: to talk. Well, I'm so happy that she now.
12:58
Speaker 1: Feels ready to tell her story. The readout in the.
13:01
Speaker 6: Online version says that Mel is going to talk about
13:05
Speaker 6: the Coburger families, their pain, their confusion. You know this
13:11
Speaker 6: thing happened the blink of an ie ago and when
13:14
Speaker 6: you so this this piece is such a piece of
13:17
Speaker 6: journalistic malpractice. The interviewer, the guy's name is Mike Baker.
13:22
Speaker 6: He either does not know nor does he care to
13:26
Speaker 6: read in to the details of this case. But instead
13:30
Speaker 6: we've got crap like this in The New York Times.
13:32
Speaker 1: Feel sorry for me.
13:34
Speaker 6: My brother is a homicidal maniac who snuffed out four
13:38
Speaker 6: young lives and seemed to enjoy doing it. And it
13:41
Speaker 6: looks like my mom was an accessory after the fact.
13:44
Speaker 1: Just my opinion.
13:45
Speaker 6: But hey, we just want we just want to re
13:47
Speaker 6: enter polite society.
13:48
Speaker 1: Please, won't you help us? In The New York Times
13:50
Speaker 1: says sure, why not? That is our friend Maureen Callahan
13:54
Speaker 1: from her podcast The Nerve and Boy, she hit the
13:57
Speaker 1: nail on the head. Really, Mail is whining to the
14:02
Speaker 1: New York Times, and they're printing their puff pace about
14:04
Speaker 1: her pain, her pain and her family's pain. Okay, that's
14:10
Speaker 1: the time to keep your pie holes shut right there.
14:14
Speaker 1: I would like your response to Coburger's family whining about
14:19
Speaker 1: their pain.
14:22
Speaker 3: You know, I think it's it's just odd that they would.
14:30
Speaker 3: That's their first time they've chosen to speak out.
14:34
Speaker 7: You know.
14:34
Speaker 3: Apparently they stand behind him, whether they believe the truth
14:39
Speaker 3: or not. But they've they've never spoken out for his innocent.
14:43
Speaker 3: They've never gone out there and said, you know, my
14:45
Speaker 3: brother's innocent, he didn't do this.
14:47
Speaker 4: He would never do such a thing.
14:50
Speaker 3: But they come out and, you know, say, you know,
14:53
Speaker 3: we're in this terrible situation.
14:55
Speaker 4: Our family is hurting and whatnot.
14:57
Speaker 3: And I don't doubt that their family is how some
15:00
Speaker 3: sort of confusion pain.
15:03
Speaker 4: I don't.
15:03
Speaker 3: I'm sure that they aren't even compared. But it does
15:06
Speaker 3: not compare at all. They could still talk to him,
15:10
Speaker 3: they could write to him, they could go visit him.
15:14
Speaker 5: He's my kids would be if one of my kids
15:17
Speaker 5: did something like this, they would be did to our family,
15:19
Speaker 5: we would not be supporting them that. We would not
15:22
Speaker 5: be I tell all my kids, if you do something
15:24
Speaker 5: that atrocious, even even like rape, it's something like that
15:29
Speaker 5: where you overly go over somebody else as well, you're
15:32
Speaker 5: done this family, We're not. We would never, we would
15:35
Speaker 5: never put up with that. And this is we're talking
15:37
Speaker 5: about nam. It's got like thirty thousand dollars. So you've
15:40
Speaker 5: got to got to stand up and say the person's
15:43
Speaker 5: wrong and then remove your support. Otherwise you're condoning what
15:47
Speaker 5: he did and you're embracing it, and you're rewarding him
15:51
Speaker 5: for that behavior. And that's why society has people like this,
15:54
Speaker 5: and we will continue to have people like this because
15:57
Speaker 5: we haven't just cut the rope and said you're done.
15:59
Speaker 5: You did even though your life you're dead. To us.
16:02
Speaker 3: It's hard to put ourselves in their shoes, because a
16:05
Speaker 3: lot of people think they could put theirselves in our
16:06
Speaker 3: shoes and speak on behalf of how they would act,
16:09
Speaker 3: or they wouldn't have done what we did, or they
16:11
Speaker 3: would have done this and that and this and that,
16:12
Speaker 3: and until you're in these shoes, it's hard to really
16:15
Speaker 3: say what you're going to do.
16:16
Speaker 4: We think we know.
16:17
Speaker 3: What we would do if the tables were reversed, so
16:21
Speaker 3: it is hard to actually no, for sure. That's just
16:25
Speaker 3: our opinion of how we feel.
16:27
Speaker 1: Out the fac guys go on services. You're sitting down,
16:31
Speaker 1: you may need to lay down. Quotes from Melissa Coburger
16:35
Speaker 1: from The New York Times, brace yourself. I've always been
16:39
Speaker 1: a person who has spoken up for what was right. Okay,
16:42
Speaker 1: just right there, screeching, screeching stop. If I ever had
16:46
Speaker 1: a reason to believe my brother did anything, I would
16:48
Speaker 1: have turned them in. Okay. It's confusing, it's painful. It's
16:52
Speaker 1: like being victimized but not really being a victim. Okay,
16:55
Speaker 1: you're not a victim. You're not a victim, Melissa Coburger.
17:00
Speaker 1: The idea is making me so emotional. I can barely
17:02
Speaker 1: speak to you about it. It's human nature to be
17:05
Speaker 1: curious about darker things. That's how we keep ourselves safe.
17:09
Speaker 1: I think we should try to come together for a
17:11
Speaker 1: true crime culture. What come together for a true crime culture? Now? Wait? Wait,
17:18
Speaker 1: we're all so proud of him because he had overcome
17:21
Speaker 1: so much. It was a heart surrounded by vibrant colors
17:25
Speaker 1: that I had drawn from Brian, even if I cannot
17:27
Speaker 1: be there in person, Okay, I stand up for what
17:31
Speaker 1: is right. She actually said that, Christy, she said that.
17:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that
17:41
Speaker 3: she doesn't know the truth, unless in that situation that
17:45
Speaker 3: they're in, they just have a mental block that will
17:49
Speaker 3: not allow them to accept what he did.
17:53
Speaker 5: She said, in her own words, Brian, you're out at
17:56
Speaker 5: like one, two, three in the morning.
17:58
Speaker 4: Be careful running.
18:00
Speaker 5: So if you know your brother's out, he has the
18:03
Speaker 5: same car. You've got to share a family Amazon account.
18:07
Speaker 5: You're seeing he has the weapon. So now he has
18:09
Speaker 5: the weapon, the car, and he's out around that time,
18:12
Speaker 5: and he lives close. Yeah, he's less than ten miles away.
18:16
Speaker 5: Don't tell me you didn't know, or you didn't think
18:18
Speaker 5: that he was assessment or why did you tell him
18:21
Speaker 5: to quit journey.
18:22
Speaker 1: According to her, the family knew nothing.
18:25
Speaker 8: Listen covered your sister, Mel, saying her family had no
18:29
Speaker 8: idea her brother was a killer and reached out to
18:31
Speaker 8: warn him to be careful after the murders. Finally speaking out,
18:35
Speaker 8: she wants to talk about growing up with the killer.
18:37
Speaker 1: No one wants to hear about growing up with Brian Coburger.
18:40
Speaker 1: But this does not bode well for her mental health
18:44
Speaker 1: care career. If she lived with a psycho killer her
18:49
Speaker 1: whole life and didn't notice anything was wrong, Okay, joining
18:53
Speaker 1: me right now, Doctor Bethany Marshall. She's renound psychologist out
18:58
Speaker 1: of the LA jurisdiction all of deal Breakers. You can
19:01
Speaker 1: see her on peacock and you can find her at
19:04
Speaker 1: doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, I asked that
19:07
Speaker 1: you tread very lightly while the Gonsoalvest family is with us,
19:13
Speaker 1: but what is with this person? It's my understanding, and
19:17
Speaker 1: you investigated reporters Susan a day, jump in if I'm wrong.
19:20
Speaker 1: But she has a career in mental health care and
19:24
Speaker 1: she lived with a psycho killer her whole life and
19:27
Speaker 1: didn't notice a thing, that does not bode well.
19:31
Speaker 9: No, there are so many reports about Brian Coburger that
19:34
Speaker 9: exposed the fact that he stalked, that the staff at
19:38
Speaker 9: the university had meetings about him, there were complaints about him.
19:43
Speaker 9: I'm sure he exhibited that same behavior at home. There's
19:47
Speaker 9: a term the mask of sanity when it comes to psychopaths,
19:51
Speaker 9: meaning that they wear the mask of sanity. They pretend
19:55
Speaker 9: that they are more sane than they really are. But
19:57
Speaker 9: Brian Coberger did not pretend, and he was saying it
20:01
Speaker 9: was apparent to everybody around him. Why not mel And
20:06
Speaker 9: the thing about Melissa, you know, in order to be
20:09
Speaker 9: a therapist, you have to have profound empathy for others.
20:13
Speaker 9: In her interview, she expresses no worthy for the families
20:18
Speaker 9: of the victims.
20:20
Speaker 1: Well, even giving the interview about her pain and her
20:23
Speaker 1: family's pain. Okay, one thing before the Gonsolvests leave us,
20:29
Speaker 1: I want to speak to them about what this woman
20:34
Speaker 1: just said. Coburger's sister. The family had no idea, but
20:38
Speaker 1: let me lay something out for you and then I
20:40
Speaker 1: will explore it more in depth with the rest of
20:42
Speaker 1: our panel. The phone records tell a very different story,
20:47
Speaker 1: mister and missus Gonsolves, And I'm sure you already know this,
20:50
Speaker 1: but for those that don't. For the phone records, the
20:55
Speaker 1: murders of four beautiful students, including hell Egal Solves, occur
21:01
Speaker 1: between four oh five and four to twenty am. Am
21:06
Speaker 1: Coburger turns his phone off between two thirty and four
21:09
Speaker 1: thirty eight m. He turns the phone back on on
21:14
Speaker 1: his way from the crime scene back to his apartment
21:17
Speaker 1: in Pullman, four forty five to five am. He immediately
21:24
Speaker 1: starts calling his mother around six am, now he's just
21:30
Speaker 1: turned his phone back on. Starts calling his mother over
21:34
Speaker 1: and over and over and over obsessively. She doesn't pick up.
21:38
Speaker 1: Maybe she's sleeping. Then, in a fit of anger, he
21:43
Speaker 1: calls his father and says, why won't she picked up
21:47
Speaker 1: the phone. Well, she picks up the phone quickly after that,
21:52
Speaker 1: six seventeen. Calls mom on a phone call that lasts
21:57
Speaker 1: thirty six minutes. Eight oh three. He is now driving
22:02
Speaker 1: back to the crime scene to view his handywork. This
22:05
Speaker 1: is very common amongst criminals. They returned to the crime scene.
22:09
Speaker 1: Don't know why. Why does a dog make a circle
22:12
Speaker 1: three times before it sits down? Don't know, but they do.
22:16
Speaker 1: He calls Mommy speaks nearly an hour driving around the
22:23
Speaker 1: crime scene. Did mom tell him to go back and
22:26
Speaker 1: get that knife sheath? Did she advise him to confess
22:30
Speaker 1: or not to speak? This is just one hundred and
22:34
Speaker 1: twenty minutes after the murders and he's on the phone
22:40
Speaker 1: with mommy. Nine am. He's back on the phone. What
22:44
Speaker 1: were they talking about? Five phone calls over three hours
22:50
Speaker 1: at the time, immediately after the murders to Steve and
22:54
Speaker 1: Christi Consalvez. You want me to believe she knew nothing
22:59
Speaker 1: and is sister is saved to the New York Times.
23:01
Speaker 1: We had no idea, Really, what were they talking about?
23:06
Speaker 1: Have you thought about this?
23:09
Speaker 7: Ya?
23:09
Speaker 5: We know more than just that. We know from some
23:11
Speaker 5: of the stuff they pulled from his phone. She sent
23:14
Speaker 5: him links to the story.
23:16
Speaker 4: So not that same day, but shortly after.
23:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, shortly after so yeah, yeah, and we know about
23:22
Speaker 5: they gave the bowl out out on the car, and
23:24
Speaker 5: then just within a day or two they start booking
23:27
Speaker 5: a flight to go get him. And then he wasn't
23:29
Speaker 5: coming back with that car. That whole trip to Pennsylvania
23:32
Speaker 5: was to get rid of evidence his car and help
23:35
Speaker 5: him clean it. As soon as he pulled up to
23:37
Speaker 5: the house, Dad jumped out of the car, moved his
23:39
Speaker 5: car out, and put his in the garage. So yeah,
23:42
Speaker 5: there's more to that too, But there's only so much
23:46
Speaker 5: we can focus on and so much we can work on.
23:48
Speaker 5: But we're not fools.
23:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, and we do know that he
23:54
Speaker 3: was wearing gloves inside the house almost the whole time.
23:56
Speaker 3: Matter of fact, when they went in to arrest them,
23:59
Speaker 3: he was indeed sitting at the kitchen table wearing gloves
24:05
Speaker 3: sorting trash. Now, whether he was doing that, why the
24:08
Speaker 3: family was all sleeping. I find it hard to believe
24:11
Speaker 3: that they didn't notice that he was going around wearing gloves.
24:14
Speaker 3: Maybe he was shorting trash only right, they were asleep
24:17
Speaker 3: and they didn't notice that. But why are you just
24:20
Speaker 3: walking around the house wearing gloves?
24:22
Speaker 4: Why are you out there obsessively right?
24:24
Speaker 1: Are there? Christy? You know this morning, as my daughter
24:28
Speaker 1: was walking out, I went, hold on, you got a
24:29
Speaker 1: white fuzzy attached to your leg and I went over
24:33
Speaker 1: and got it off, and she walked out the door.
24:35
Speaker 1: I noticed that they didn't notice he was wearing gloves
24:38
Speaker 1: in the house.
24:40
Speaker 4: They didn't want to notice.
24:41
Speaker 5: It is what it is, sorting his garbage.
24:43
Speaker 1: Those phone calls to me are damning. They're damning, And
24:48
Speaker 1: I wonder if the mother was ever questioned about what
24:52
Speaker 1: the content of those phone calls, over and over and over,
24:56
Speaker 1: going to the crime scene, going around and around and
24:59
Speaker 1: around like vulture the crime is saying what were they
25:02
Speaker 1: talking about? What's she questioned to the Gonsolvist family I
25:07
Speaker 1: beg you not to look at the photos any further.
25:10
Speaker 1: I beg you because it's going to be up here
25:13
Speaker 1: the rest of your life. What is your message tonight,
25:19
Speaker 1: mister missus gonsolve.
25:21
Speaker 3: You know, it really is just, you know, with society
25:26
Speaker 3: changing the way it is and people so many people
25:30
Speaker 3: having access to it via the Internet and being able
25:34
Speaker 3: to get these pictures, they fall in the wrong hands and.
25:38
Speaker 5: It's just everybody's a news network, but they don't have
25:42
Speaker 5: the education to be.
25:44
Speaker 4: I'm an eighteen year old TikToker, you know, getting them.
25:47
Speaker 5: Out there and just to the right at eighteen either.
25:50
Speaker 5: So it's just our leaders have to be better than.
25:54
Speaker 3: This, and we are no different than than people in
25:57
Speaker 3: the past. I'm not trying to say that we're better,
25:59
Speaker 3: and but things need to change. It's a time to
26:03
Speaker 3: change this.
26:04
Speaker 1: You know what, For the first time ever, mister missus
26:07
Speaker 1: Gone's solvice, I completely disagree with you. I think right
26:11
Speaker 1: is right and wrong is wrong, and there's no excuse
26:15
Speaker 1: for that. There it's no excuse for hurting the victims'
26:19
Speaker 1: families for your own monetary gain, for a moment, for
26:24
Speaker 1: another clique, for a higher rating. That just it's wrong.
26:29
Speaker 1: As I tell I've told my children, if it feels wrong,
26:34
Speaker 1: it is wrong. There's something wrong. When you feel like
26:38
Speaker 1: is this right, It's not right. When you feel those
26:41
Speaker 1: tingles or you feel hot, when you're saying something or
26:45
Speaker 1: doing something, stop because it's wrong and your conscience is
26:51
Speaker 1: telling you that's wrong. So I can't explain it away
26:56
Speaker 1: with the times they be a changing that doesn't cut
26:59
Speaker 1: it with me. But please note tonight you are in
27:03
Speaker 1: our prayers as always, and thank you for joining us.
27:07
Speaker 1: Thank you for having us convicted. Quadruple killer Brian Coburg
27:11
Speaker 1: Erlad guilty to slaughtering four people that he thought he
27:15
Speaker 1: would find a sleep in their beds, four beautiful University
27:19
Speaker 1: Idaho students, these.
27:20
Speaker 2: Final moments that they have just screaming for life, screaming
27:24
Speaker 2: for air.
27:24
Speaker 1: I can't stress enough the brutality of the crime scene
27:28
Speaker 1: photos and to revictimize these victims and their families.
27:35
Speaker 8: Family of Coburger's victims shocked by graphic crime scene photos
27:39
Speaker 8: released to the public with little warning. They were made
27:42
Speaker 8: aware of the release just hours before. The photos show
27:46
Speaker 8: the bedrooms where the murders took place, clearly showing blood
27:49
Speaker 8: spatter on the walls, blood dripping on the beds, and
27:51
Speaker 8: blood smears on the floor where a battle of life
27:54
Speaker 8: and death took place. Photo showed the knife sheath Coburger
27:57
Speaker 8: left behind him Mattie's bed, the piece of evvige ins
28:00
Speaker 8: that put Coberger in the room when the murders took place.
28:03
Speaker 8: Photos show the floor and walls with blood smeared, sheets
28:07
Speaker 8: drenched with blood, the spatter, smears and dripping, showing the
28:10
Speaker 8: brutality of the horrific murders and the battle that took place.
28:14
Speaker 1: Joining me in All Star Panelty makes sense of what
28:16
Speaker 1: we were learning tonight. First the photos. The only photo
28:21
Speaker 1: that I saw of any probitive value wait for and
28:24
Speaker 1: I'm not going to it yet, is the knife she
28:28
Speaker 1: found under a victim's body. To Dave Mack joining me
28:33
Speaker 1: Crime Stori's investigative reporter. We went through the photos one
28:36
Speaker 1: by one last night and it was heartbreaking. Describe what
28:43
Speaker 1: you saw, Nancy.
28:45
Speaker 8: I am so thankful of the decision you've made to
28:50
Speaker 8: not show the photos. What I saw was worse than
28:54
Speaker 8: anything I imagined throughout all of our coverage of this
29:00
Speaker 8: and all I could when I saw the blood in
29:04
Speaker 8: the bedrooms and I mean, we're talking on the floor,
29:08
Speaker 8: on the beds, on the walls. We're not talking about
29:12
Speaker 8: a car accident. We are talking about girls being borifically
29:19
Speaker 8: murdered by coburger and what we're looking at. There was
29:24
Speaker 8: one of the photos, Nancy, They shows one of the
29:27
Speaker 8: girl's hair in the blood, and all I could think
29:33
Speaker 8: of was my own daughters. And all I could think
29:35
Speaker 8: of was the families being subjected to this for what
29:41
Speaker 8: fury and interest. The blood is worse than we were told.
29:45
Speaker 1: Oh, it's much worse than what we thought we were
29:47
Speaker 1: going to see. Justin Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensicks,
29:51
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program, author
29:56
Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet, star of Body Bags. With
29:59
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, we're going to hit podcast. Joe Scott, how
30:04
Speaker 1: many times was Kelly stabbed in the face the gun
30:08
Speaker 1: solve us as a daughter to the point her tea
30:10
Speaker 1: or stab out of her mouth?
30:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's in excess of twenty. And here's the problem.
30:16
Speaker 2: You can't actually count them accurately because there's cross communication
30:21
Speaker 2: between the injuries, Nancy, that kind of overlap. That's how
30:25
Speaker 2: much damage was done, and the level of brutality, you know,
30:31
Speaker 2: is something that you know is going to ring in
30:33
Speaker 2: our ears forever and ever because we've all heard this before,
30:37
Speaker 2: but now because of a decision that has been made
30:41
Speaker 2: relative to this imagery, it it refocuses in a very
30:48
Speaker 2: ghoulish way against the wishes of the family. And Nancy,
30:53
Speaker 2: I got to tell you something you know here, Jack State,
30:55
Speaker 2: I work with current and former practitioners. That means that
30:59
Speaker 2: we're all instigaters, current forensic scientists, and you know, Nancy,
31:05
Speaker 2: to a person when I pull them, I ask them,
31:08
Speaker 2: have do you, guys, to the best of your recollection,
31:12
Speaker 2: recall homicide that you have worked that has been adjudicated
31:17
Speaker 2: and the subject is in an institution somewhere, and then
31:21
Speaker 2: after this, all of the crime scene images are released
31:25
Speaker 2: by your organization or the DA or whoever it is.
31:29
Speaker 2: To a person that couldn't recall a single instance, Nancy,
31:33
Speaker 2: I worked in New Orleans and Atlanta, and from an
31:36
Speaker 2: official standpoint, I don't ever recall. Now that doesn't mean
31:39
Speaker 2: that there haven't been leaked things over the years, but
31:42
Speaker 2: this goes so far beyond the pale that this can
31:45
Speaker 2: be linked back to these people out there that seem
31:50
Speaker 2: to have a complete disconnect with reality.
31:53
Speaker 1: I don't understand what is wrong with these people. Dr
31:57
Speaker 1: Bethanie Marshall. Why why the release and then quickly scrub
32:02
Speaker 1: it off the screen knowing they did a bad thing,
32:05
Speaker 1: not telling the parents in advance. They have to find out.
32:10
Speaker 1: And then the people that are enjoying looking at them,
32:14
Speaker 1: the Gonsoltists pointed out, I'm gonna double check with Susan Hendrix.
32:18
Speaker 1: The gonsolviist is pointed out, this is no longer an investigation.
32:21
Speaker 1: It's over. So why now what is there to prove
32:26
Speaker 1: or disprove? Probatively it's over? And when Dave and I
32:31
Speaker 1: were looking at the crime scene photos last night, Bethany,
32:35
Speaker 1: a lot of them are just the blood smeared on
32:38
Speaker 1: the wall, on the floor where you can see there
32:41
Speaker 1: was a struggle, a horrific struggle in blood and the
32:47
Speaker 1: parents are gonna have to go. That's Killy's blood, that's
32:49
Speaker 1: Maddie's blood, that's Ethan's blood. Just done with these people.
32:56
Speaker 9: You know what's wrong, Nancy is there is profound just
33:00
Speaker 9: regard for the families. In Mel's interviews in the police department,
33:03
Speaker 9: whoever released those photos these are law enforcement, the people
33:07
Speaker 9: who release the photos. They should know that there are
33:10
Speaker 9: people out there with ghoulish interests in gore in crime,
33:15
Speaker 9: and that these photos will be used in an exploitive
33:19
Speaker 9: kind of way, you know, Nancy. In the DSM, the
33:21
Speaker 9: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, it describes that
33:27
Speaker 9: it's more traumatic to see a loved one hurt than
33:31
Speaker 9: to be hurt yourself, all right, to see a loved
33:35
Speaker 9: one stabbed in a car accident, and pain a loved
33:38
Speaker 9: one with cancer, Because we human beings, we are wired
33:42
Speaker 9: to connect. So how could the law enforcement not have
33:45
Speaker 9: known that one little slip putting these photos out there,
33:50
Speaker 9: and that they would spread like wildfire all over the internet.
33:54
Speaker 9: And you know, these people who are in charge of
33:57
Speaker 9: these ghoulish pictures, who are using them, exploiting them, they
34:00
Speaker 9: have profound disregard for the family too.
34:03
Speaker 1: It's just it's so sad. Joining me is Susan Hendricks,
34:08
Speaker 1: investigative journalist, author of Down the Hill, My Descent into
34:11
Speaker 1: the double murders in Delphi. Susan, how did this happen?
34:17
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a standard sop release of crime scene
34:21
Speaker 1: photos because it was placed up on the Idaho State
34:25
Speaker 1: Police website and then quickly scrubbed off what happened.
34:29
Speaker 10: Nancy, that's the question. How did they get out? Were
34:31
Speaker 10: they leaked, were they released? And quote unquote redacted if
34:36
Speaker 10: you will. I mean, as we just heard, you could
34:39
Speaker 10: see one of the victim's hair. It's unbelievable that the
34:42
Speaker 10: families have to be re victimized again.
34:45
Speaker 1: Well, you know to Chris mcdunne and joining US director
34:48
Speaker 1: Cole Case Foundation. Former homicide detective worked over three hundred
34:52
Speaker 1: homicides over twenty five years and he's the star of
34:56
Speaker 1: a YouTube channel where I found him the interview room. Chris,
35:00
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You and I have
35:02
Speaker 1: walked the crime scene and been intimately involved with the
35:06
Speaker 1: logistics of the murders. Chris, there's not a lot probative
35:12
Speaker 1: that prove anything about many of these photos. They're ghoulish.
35:17
Speaker 1: The one photo that I saw that proved anything to
35:21
Speaker 1: me was the knife sheath. Let's see that, we've seen it,
35:28
Speaker 1: We've heard about it. This shot there you see the
35:32
Speaker 1: knife on the bed. The sheets are splattered with blood
35:37
Speaker 1: and jo Scott Morgan can explain what those blood droplets mean.
35:40
Speaker 1: This will be the only photos that we show of
35:43
Speaker 1: these pictures from hell, Chris, This knife sheath changed, the trajectory,
35:52
Speaker 1: changed the course of this investigation. Is it typical for
35:58
Speaker 1: crime victims' families to have to look at the crime
36:01
Speaker 1: scene photos? I always tried to shield them, Chris.
36:05
Speaker 7: Well, absolutely not, Nancy. It is not typical, and the
36:10
Speaker 7: family has every right to feel outraged and shocked. I mean,
36:15
Speaker 7: this is beyond the pale. What that knife sheet, though,
36:18
Speaker 7: it does tell us is that Hailey stalled this crime
36:23
Speaker 7: by her fighting by her and we see that in
36:27
Speaker 7: the blood evidence with doctor Morgan. We'll talk about here
36:30
Speaker 7: in a minute, but what we see there is the
36:33
Speaker 7: fact that he lost control because she gained control, and
36:38
Speaker 7: that's the brutality that he had to deliver as a
36:42
Speaker 7: result of that, and that's why that was night sheef.
36:45
Speaker 1: Is there, Joscott Morgan? What do we see? What do
36:48
Speaker 1: those blood droplets on the bed? I think that's Matty
36:51
Speaker 1: Morgan's bed where the knife is found. The knife sheet,
36:55
Speaker 1: what do those droplets tell you?
36:57
Speaker 2: Well, they're immediately adjacent to the sheet, which by the way,
37:01
Speaker 2: is face down. The USMC is not visible on the sheath,
37:05
Speaker 2: which we've heard a lot about. This is a k
37:07
Speaker 2: bar sheath. The size of these droplets, Nancy, indicate to
37:11
Speaker 2: me that there is some level of velocity or speed
37:14
Speaker 2: in their deposition. So this is something that you're going
37:17
Speaker 2: to see either in an action move. It's not like
37:21
Speaker 2: passively dripping where you get the big drops. This is
37:25
Speaker 2: coming off of the action of actually stabbing or casting
37:29
Speaker 2: at that point in time. So they don't they don't
37:33
Speaker 2: all have little tails on them, but you can see
37:36
Speaker 2: that there is some level of velosity because the size
37:39
Speaker 2: of these things, they're concentrated, they're very tiny.
37:42
Speaker 1: Tell me exactly what's going on one of our one
37:47
Speaker 1: of the roommates who's.
37:48
Speaker 11: Passed out and she's drung glass and it's not like
37:51
Speaker 11: the up.
37:52
Speaker 1: Oh and they saw some man in their house as night.
37:55
Speaker 12: Yeah, in the patient.
37:59
Speaker 8: Okay, need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
38:03
Speaker 9: Can I just tell you what happened? Pretty much?
38:05
Speaker 11: What is going on currently as someone passed out right now?
38:10
Speaker 12: I don't really know what pretty much for him?
38:12
Speaker 7: Okay, well, I need to know what's going on right now.
38:14
Speaker 9: If someone has passed out, can you find that out? Yeah,
38:17
Speaker 9: I'll come come on with them.
38:18
Speaker 8: Check.
38:21
Speaker 1: But we have to Brian Coberger pled guilty to four murders.
38:26
Speaker 1: They were worse than murders, they were slaughters. The nature
38:30
Speaker 1: of the murders was more akin to a butchering a slaughtering.
38:35
Speaker 1: Does it never end for the victims' families, but now
38:39
Speaker 1: they have another fight on their hands trying to stop
38:43
Speaker 1: vile images of their children in depth being released, and
38:50
Speaker 1: tonight the parents sue Washington State University. Listen, that's really interesting.
38:57
Speaker 1: If he had been thrown out, he wouldn't even been
38:59
Speaker 1: there exactly.
39:01
Speaker 5: Yep. He should have been thrown out before he ever
39:04
Speaker 5: killed these kids. That's the truth. If they should have
39:06
Speaker 5: set a standard and said, look, we don't put up
39:09
Speaker 5: with this in our university. You crossed the line.
39:12
Speaker 1: You're done.
39:13
Speaker 5: It's not even our decision, it's just your behavior. We're
39:15
Speaker 5: holding you accountable. You should behave like this. That's the
39:18
Speaker 5: expectations in Washington State University. And you either do it
39:23
Speaker 5: or you don't.
39:25
Speaker 1: There were so many red flags, Listen, he.
39:29
Speaker 3: Had thirteen in the first semester. The first one came
39:32
Speaker 3: in August, that's the first month that you come to school,
39:35
Speaker 3: and then twelve twelve after and November had a huge
39:40
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving break and then he didn't even go the whole
39:43
Speaker 3: month of December. He took off like December ninth or tenth.
39:46
Speaker 3: And there's thirteen formal complaints.
39:50
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, what was wrong with w S Washington
39:56
Speaker 1: State University? At least thirteen complaints by women by students.
40:02
Speaker 1: It got so bad even a professor was complaining. I
40:06
Speaker 1: think they thought they were going to get sued if
40:07
Speaker 1: they fired Coburger. Well they're getting sued now because they
40:10
Speaker 1: did nothing.
40:12
Speaker 9: They had their eye on the wrong thing, Nancy. Even
40:14
Speaker 9: one professor came forward and said, do not give this
40:17
Speaker 9: guy a PhD. Because if you do, you will see
40:21
Speaker 9: him in the news years from now he will have raped, murdered,
40:24
Speaker 9: killed somebody. So there were multiple people coming forward, and
40:28
Speaker 9: I do think the university was paralyzed at the thought
40:31
Speaker 9: that Brian Coberger would sue them, and in fact, they
40:35
Speaker 9: saw themselves as a potential victim, rather than thinking about
40:39
Speaker 9: all the victims in the classroom. Nancy. University students, especially
40:43
Speaker 9: women between the ages of eighteen and twenty two, are
40:46
Speaker 9: notoriously targeted for rapes and crimes. We know this about
40:50
Speaker 9: college campuses. So the fact that they did not even
40:53
Speaker 9: use their own internal risk assessment procedure to protect these
40:59
Speaker 9: victim is just shocking.
41:02
Speaker 8: The lawsuit aledges almost immediately upon arrival to Pullman, Moscow.
41:07
Speaker 8: Coburger developed a reputation for harassing and stalking, instilling fear
41:11
Speaker 8: among female students and fellow WSU employees. Record show at
41:15
Speaker 8: least thirteen complaints were filed against Coburger by other students
41:19
Speaker 8: in the criminology program.
41:20
Speaker 13: Classmates and professors found Coberger sexist and creepy. Female students
41:24
Speaker 13: avoided being left alone with him. In One faculty member
41:26
Speaker 13: warned he had the potential to become a future rapist.
41:29
Speaker 13: Of faculty member said Coberger's quote smart enough that in
41:32
Speaker 13: four years we will have to give him a PhD.
41:34
Speaker 13: But mark my word, I work with predators. If we
41:37
Speaker 13: give him a PhD, that's the guy. In many years,
41:40
Speaker 13: when he is a professor, we will hear he's harassing, stalking,
41:44
Speaker 13: and sexually abusing his students at wherever University.
41:49
Speaker 1: My stars and to Howard Blum, renowned author he wrote
41:55
Speaker 1: When the Night Comes Falling Requiem for the Idaho Students Murder.
42:00
Speaker 1: He has an article out this weekend in air mail
42:03
Speaker 1: titled did BK have an accomplice? I make the case,
42:09
Speaker 1: Howard Blum, It goes on and on. It was so
42:11
Speaker 1: bad that there was a system set up for female
42:16
Speaker 1: students to text or email when they needed an escort
42:20
Speaker 1: to their car because they were afraid of coburger. I mean,
42:26
Speaker 1: you have been on this case from the beginning. Why
42:28
Speaker 1: didn't they act? I agree with the Consolvis family.
42:33
Speaker 11: I agree with them too, and I think it's really
42:36
Speaker 11: interesting that for once, all four families are uniting to
42:40
Speaker 11: make a point. And I think their point is not
42:42
Speaker 11: specifically against WSU Washington State University, but they want to
42:47
Speaker 11: establish once and for all that students when they go,
42:50
Speaker 11: when your parents send students off to a university or
42:53
Speaker 11: a college, that they are protected. The university has a
42:56
Speaker 11: responsibility to make sure that the students are safe. And
43:01
Speaker 11: Washington State University ignored this. And it can't be done
43:06
Speaker 11: at Washington State University, it can't be done at other
43:08
Speaker 11: universities around the country. And that's the real purpose of
43:11
Speaker 11: this lawsuit, and it's a good one.
43:18
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Eric Fattus joining me, high
43:26
Speaker 1: profile lawyer founder of the law offices of Eric Fattus,
43:31
Speaker 1: former fellowy prosecutor Eric. What can Washington State University say
43:39
Speaker 1: in their defense because it's all documented this or not?
43:44
Speaker 1: Just he said this and she said that they documented it,
43:48
Speaker 1: and then a day late and a dollar short, they
43:50
Speaker 1: decide to have an intervention, way way too late.
43:56
Speaker 12: Yeah. I mean, it seems like there was some clearly
43:58
Speaker 12: documented failures errors, I know, missions on behalf of Washington
44:01
Speaker 12: State University. I think what they're going to argue, Nancy
44:04
Speaker 12: is they're going to argue causation because the plaintiffs have
44:08
Speaker 12: to essentially show that Washington States University's failures caused damages
44:12
Speaker 12: and in some of the claims, caused or substantially contributed
44:16
Speaker 12: to the deaths. I think Washington State's going to say, hey,
44:18
Speaker 12: this was a mad man, this was a psychopathic killer.
44:22
Speaker 12: We couldn't have done anything to stop this. He would
44:24
Speaker 12: have done this anyway. And so I think that that
44:27
Speaker 12: is the horse they're likely going to rune.
44:29
Speaker 8: The suit alleges the college did not take action in
44:32
Speaker 8: part because they feared firing Coburger might open WSU up
44:37
Speaker 8: to a lawsuit. After the murders, Coberger's supervising instructor and
44:41
Speaker 8: fellow graduate students immediately thought Coberger committed the murders, but
44:45
Speaker 8: did not contact law enforcement. The plaintiffs named in the suit,
44:49
Speaker 8: Kayleigan Zava's dad, Matty Mogan's mom, Xana Kernodle's dad, and
44:53
Speaker 8: Ethan Chapin's mom argue WSU was obligated to control Coberger
44:59
Speaker 8: as a teaching assistant and employee and resident of campus housing.
45:04
Speaker 1: They hired him. Doctor Benthony Marshall doesn't anybody check social
45:09
Speaker 1: media anymore. He talked about his heroin addiction. He talked
45:12
Speaker 1: about the white noise he hears all the time, remember
45:17
Speaker 1: that the right when you see snow on your TV.
45:21
Speaker 1: Did they not see any of that?
45:24
Speaker 9: And that he felt like a piece of meat. He
45:26
Speaker 9: had no emotions when he hugged his family members. He
45:30
Speaker 9: didn't feel anything. Nancy, this is actually a profound refusal
45:35
Speaker 9: to put their thoughts together about what was happening at
45:39
Speaker 9: their university. They did not They looked at all the evidence.
45:42
Speaker 9: They talked about it, they had meetings, Everything was documented,
45:46
Speaker 9: but there was a profound lack of a willingness to think,
45:51
Speaker 9: to think about the students, to protect the students, their
45:55
Speaker 9: fear of being sued was so so serving. I mean,
46:01
Speaker 9: they prioritize that over women who are potentially raped. They're
46:06
Speaker 9: worried about themselves, Like Melissa Coburger, She's worried about her family.
46:13
Speaker 9: She's not talking about the victims' families. Like all these
46:17
Speaker 9: photos that are being released online. These boulish people who
46:21
Speaker 9: are going to exploit the photos are thinking about themselves.
46:25
Speaker 9: They're not thinking about the family. There is a profound disconnect, Nancy.
46:32
Speaker 9: People are dissociating from the reality of what really happened
46:37
Speaker 9: during that crime.
46:38
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you heard earlier that immediately after the murders,
46:43
Speaker 1: people at WSU, fellow grad students and a supervising instructor knew.
46:50
Speaker 1: They immediately knew Coburger quote did it, and they did nothing.
47:10
Speaker 1: She's not waking up.
47:14
Speaker 9: Okay, one moment.
47:15
Speaker 12: I'm going to help her.
47:16
Speaker 8: It that way.
47:24
Speaker 1: Circling back to Howard Bloom, author of the definitive book
47:28
Speaker 1: regarding the Idaho murders. When the night comes falling, Howard,
47:33
Speaker 1: what about that sister and her green wig? Not judging
47:39
Speaker 1: She's claiming that she's gotten so famous to avoid being recognized,
47:44
Speaker 1: she has to wear heavy makeup in a wig, a
47:46
Speaker 1: green wig or pink wig wherever she goes. Okay, but
47:50
Speaker 1: the point is whining to The New York Times about
47:53
Speaker 1: her pain in her family's pain.
47:54
Speaker 11: Well, I am sympathetic to the sister. I think she's
47:58
Speaker 11: a victim, but I also thinks she's not being totally candid.
48:02
Speaker 11: We just heard that at Washington State University everyone thought
48:07
Speaker 11: he was a suspect, or so many people thought he
48:09
Speaker 11: was a suspect, and yet his family had no idea.
48:13
Speaker 11: I don't buy that. I don't buy that at all.
48:16
Speaker 11: I don't believe that the father, while he was sitting
48:18
Speaker 11: in a white Hondai Elantra while they were going across
48:21
Speaker 11: the country that the police were looking, he knew we're
48:23
Speaker 11: looking for a white Handai Elantra, didn't have any idea
48:27
Speaker 11: that this was his son was involved in these murders.
48:30
Speaker 11: I think they're trying to make the best case possible,
48:33
Speaker 11: but I don't think they're being totally candid.
48:36
Speaker 1: Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig, isn't it,
48:38
Speaker 1: Howard Bloom not being totally candid. Okay, when I saw
48:46
Speaker 1: that article, nothing about the pain the victims are going through,
48:49
Speaker 1: nothing at all, all about me. Me me, me, me, me, me, me,
48:54
Speaker 1: me me. That's bizarre. I smell a book in the work.
49:00
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, somebody in the Coburger camp is going
49:03
Speaker 1: to write a book about all their pain. Susan Hendrick's
49:07
Speaker 1: back to the lawsuit. The egos officers are not speaking
49:10
Speaker 1: about it, Susan. Is it true that women had an
49:15
Speaker 1: email or a text that they could use because they
49:18
Speaker 1: were afraid of Coburger to even walk to their cars?
49:22
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and the email would say nine to one one.
49:25
Speaker 10: I mean they had a plan. They were petrified of
49:28
Speaker 10: this guy to even where they had to make a
49:31
Speaker 10: code to say I'm in trouble here or leave the
49:33
Speaker 10: door open.
49:35
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just.
49:36
Speaker 10: The red flags are everywhere in this lawsuit, everywhere, and
49:40
Speaker 10: they were all ignored.
49:41
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough joining US Cold Case Foundation and star of
49:45
Speaker 1: the Interview Room. Chris in so many cases that I
49:49
Speaker 1: prosecuted by the time I got them. Of course, they
49:51
Speaker 1: were felonies that started with pervy behavior like peeping Tom's, voyeurism,
49:58
Speaker 1: upskirt photos and and suddenly somebody's raped and somebody somebody's dead. Okay,
50:04
Speaker 1: are you surprised at all that it all started with
50:09
Speaker 1: his trail of intimidating women at WSU who did nothing
50:15
Speaker 1: about it.
50:16
Speaker 7: No, not at all, Nancy, and you have been connecting
50:18
Speaker 7: these thoughts from day one. And let's take it one
50:22
Speaker 7: step further. After the murders. Right, we have all of
50:26
Speaker 7: this free incident behavior that are just huge red flags.
50:30
Speaker 7: But what about when the cops find the white Alantra
50:34
Speaker 7: and they do what? Oh, they just said, Oh, we
50:37
Speaker 7: made a mistake, a mistake. Are you kidding me? Do
50:41
Speaker 7: you imagine all that evidence that was lost just within
50:46
Speaker 7: a week after the hologice. This was in confidence at
50:50
Speaker 7: its finest hour.
50:52
Speaker 1: To Eric Fattus joining us high profile lawyer or founder
50:56
Speaker 1: of law offices of Eric Fattus. Eric, I have some advice. Now,
51:01
Speaker 1: not a civil lawyer like you have become, but if
51:05
Speaker 1: I was counseling wsussay, don't say anything. Issue an apology,
51:11
Speaker 1: a written apology, so nobody can throw questions at you
51:15
Speaker 1: that you don't have the backbone or the wherewithal to answer.
51:18
Speaker 1: Don't say anything, You'll make it worse, and just settle,
51:22
Speaker 1: settle with the families and go away. Lesson learned, do
51:26
Speaker 1: not fight the families on this lawsuit. There is a
51:30
Speaker 1: trail a mile wide, just edged with red flags about
51:36
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger and they did nothing.
51:39
Speaker 12: And Nansie, I think that's sound advice, in part because
51:42
Speaker 12: as the lawsuit proceeds, there's gonna be a discovery process
51:45
Speaker 12: whereby Washington State University officials are going to be deposed.
51:50
Speaker 12: They're gonna be asked questions under oath peppard with inquiries
51:53
Speaker 12: from the plaintiff site. They're gonna have to answer questions
51:56
Speaker 12: under oath and writing. They're gonna have to provide materials,
51:59
Speaker 12: and we're gonna learn a lot more about these alleged
52:01
Speaker 12: failures on behalf of the university.
52:03
Speaker 4: And I think Steve.
52:04
Speaker 12: Cansolvus earlier in the program said it best, you know,
52:06
Speaker 12: he said, our leaders need to be better, and that
52:08
Speaker 12: seems like the theme of this lawsuit.
52:11
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is this, not only are they going
52:13
Speaker 1: to have to answer questions, they're going to have to
52:15
Speaker 1: depose the victims' families. You know what, you can ride
52:20
Speaker 1: that deposition straight to hell, putting the families through that too.
52:25
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,