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MOTHER'S PAIN, SON MOWED DOWN BY JEALOUS EX WHO STALKED WITH AIRTAG · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. What you don't expect when
0:17
Speaker 1: you leave a restaurant, say Applebees or Eyehob or wherever
0:21
Speaker 1: you may be, is for a car to gun the
0:26
Speaker 1: engine and come straight at you, not just once, but
0:34
Speaker 1: three times. And what you really don't expect is for
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Speaker 1: that to happen to your boy, your son, the one
0:47
Speaker 1: that you have poured all your love, all your energy,
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Speaker 1: your hopes, and your dreams. To see him mowed down
1:00
Speaker 1: like a dog in a parking lot. I mean, see, Grace,
1:06
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:08
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven, where
1:12
Speaker 1: we are dedicated to solving unsolved homicides, to finding missing people,
1:18
Speaker 1: especially children, all across our country, and to address in justice.
1:25
Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to our friends at
1:28
Speaker 1: wi SHTV. Smith was pronounced dead just before one o'clock
1:32
Speaker 1: Friday morning. His family had rushed to the scene on
1:35
Speaker 1: the East eighty second Street. Many of them saw his
1:37
Speaker 1: lifeless body trapped under a car. It's a memory that
1:41
Speaker 1: will haunt them forever. For me, like underhaedible industry, I
1:49
Speaker 1: don't want nobody love me that hard. If you've got
1:51
Speaker 1: to take my life. The emotions are still very wrong.
1:54
Speaker 1: Smith's ann's Frandica and Sandra Day describe the last minutes
1:59
Speaker 1: of their nephew's life. A lot of our net my
2:02
Speaker 1: nephews hurt beneath his cousins, our nephews and cousins and sons.
2:09
Speaker 1: Seeing our loved one of underneath the car, crying him
2:15
Speaker 1: for help as he was trying to raise his kid,
2:21
Speaker 1: ran over my gear and go get up the strict.
2:28
Speaker 1: I have a vision that still haunts me to this day.
2:30
Speaker 1: I was on the way to one of my nephews graduations,
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Speaker 1: and in this like eight lane highway somebody had hit
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Speaker 1: a cat, and the little cat was trying to raise
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Speaker 1: his head and get up and get away. This young man,
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Speaker 1: this beautiful young man, really at the beginning of his life,
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Speaker 1: Andre Smith. The thought of him being moved down, seemingly
3:00
Speaker 1: on purpose, under that car, trying to trying to get up,
3:07
Speaker 1: trying to raise up before he died. Did you hear
3:13
Speaker 1: the crying and the sobs in the background. Take a
3:19
Speaker 1: listen again to our friend Richard Essex at wi SHTV
3:25
Speaker 1: is Compelli overwhelming. Within minutes, Smith was pronounced dead by
3:30
Speaker 1: the Indianapolis fire department. His last moments are replayed in
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Speaker 1: the collective memory of his family, and it replays every
3:38
Speaker 1: time I blink right now, every plays every time we
3:42
Speaker 1: have to talk about it, or if I'm sleeping night.
3:45
Speaker 1: So I could only imagine how my sister is feeling
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Speaker 1: right now, I could owe you imagine. It's one thing
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Speaker 1: to you know injured or wounded person, but to take
4:00
Speaker 1: a life while they are or yelling for help help me.
4:08
Speaker 1: A young man and a young lady inside of CALLI,
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Speaker 1: whoever you are, our hearts go out to you, and
4:16
Speaker 1: we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. They
4:20
Speaker 1: ran out of there, and even in the midst of
4:23
Speaker 1: all that pain, Andre's family thanking two of the patrons
4:27
Speaker 1: in the restaurant, they came out and tried to help,
4:30
Speaker 1: but to no avail with me an Ulster panel to
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Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now in the
4:36
Speaker 1: brutal murder of this young man in the prime of
4:40
Speaker 1: his life, growing up into the man his mother wanted
4:44
Speaker 1: him to be. First, I want to go to a
4:48
Speaker 1: special guest joining us. This is Andrea's mother, Miss Sanders.
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Speaker 1: I do not know how you have the strength to
5:02
Speaker 1: put one foot in front of the other. You know,
5:04
Speaker 1: I have twins, and even being away from them when
5:08
Speaker 1: they go to Scout can't for Pete's sake is I
5:11
Speaker 1: hate it. I hate every minute of it. I'm just
5:15
Speaker 1: so sorry, miss senators, what you're going through. First of all,
5:20
Speaker 1: what are your days and nights like as you relive
5:25
Speaker 1: over and over learning that your son was killed? Um,
5:29
Speaker 1: Nancy's Um, it's hard for me to sleep and night. UM,
5:35
Speaker 1: I can't focus during the day. UM it's my son's
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Speaker 1: death is waning heavy on my heart. UM. I just
5:47
Speaker 1: it's horrible, like I can't stop thinking about my son,
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Speaker 1: and I wish I could have been here to help them.
5:54
Speaker 1: I remember, Miss Sanders, that after Keith's my fiance, Keith's murderer,
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Speaker 1: I would wake up in the morning and for about
6:03
Speaker 1: maybe two maybe three seconds, I wouldn't remember. I'd wake
6:10
Speaker 1: up and think it as normal, and then it would
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Speaker 1: hit me like a brick Keith was murdered, and then
6:17
Speaker 1: it starts the whole thing all over again. How do
6:21
Speaker 1: you get through the day. I'm currently taking anxiety medications.
6:27
Speaker 1: I can't. I have to take them throughout the day
6:30
Speaker 1: because if I don't, I'm crying all day. I keep
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Speaker 1: crying and crying and crying. When did you learn Do
6:37
Speaker 1: you remember that moment you learned Andre had been mowed down? Yes,
6:42
Speaker 1: I remember it. I can't forget it. I had gotten
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Speaker 1: a call from one of my family members and told
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Speaker 1: me that my son. This was the words that came
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Speaker 1: out of my family member's mouth that he wasn't responding,
6:56
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I asked my family member, who are
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Speaker 1: you talking about? And he stated Andre. Immediately rushed to
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Speaker 1: Community North Hospital in Indianapolis looking for my son. I
7:09
Speaker 1: had no idea what was going on. I just was
7:12
Speaker 1: looking for my baby. And I was going crazy at
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Speaker 1: that time because I hadn't gotten the calls from the
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Speaker 1: police or anyone. So I ran to Community North Highspital
7:22
Speaker 1: looking for my baby and he wasn't there. You are
7:26
Speaker 1: giving me chills all down my arms and legs right
7:29
Speaker 1: now because that feeling of trying to get there and
7:35
Speaker 1: not knowing what's happening. I remember I was in New
7:38
Speaker 1: York with my twins when I found out they wanted
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Speaker 1: to put my dad on life support. I got them
7:45
Speaker 1: dressed up, out of the bed and out in the
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Speaker 1: street at midnight trying to get home, and that feeling.
7:52
Speaker 1: You don't know what's happening. You can't find them, you're
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Speaker 1: not there. It's awful, it's terrible. So you're at the hospital.
8:00
Speaker 1: What happened when you got to the hospital day. He
8:03
Speaker 1: didn't have any information on my son andre Um. So
8:08
Speaker 1: a family member had reached out at this time with
8:11
Speaker 1: my sister because I had blacked out. I had parked somewhere.
8:15
Speaker 1: My sister found me and she came and got me,
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Speaker 1: and my sister ended up talking to one of the
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Speaker 1: family members and they explained to us where my son's
8:25
Speaker 1: body was located in heaven. Did you say you you
8:30
Speaker 1: blacked out? Yeah, like my sister, she was able. I
8:35
Speaker 1: guess she me and her we share locations, so she
8:38
Speaker 1: found where I was at. I was at a speedway
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Speaker 1: gas station near my home. I guess I. I was
8:44
Speaker 1: driving out of my apartment, my condo, and I ended
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Speaker 1: up at a speedway and my sister found me. When
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Speaker 1: she found me, somehow I came back to my senses
8:53
Speaker 1: and then that's where we continued on to go where
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Speaker 1: the family member told me my son's body was Joe
9:01
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan with me Jo Scott, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville, State University,
9:06
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, death Investigator
9:12
Speaker 1: starving new hit series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan
9:15
Speaker 1: on iHeart. I could go on, but Joe Scott, what
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Speaker 1: is that? Because I know I'm projecting a lot right now,
9:21
Speaker 1: but I just keep thinking about when I went to
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Speaker 1: Keith's funeral, I did not want to see his body.
9:29
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but at that point in my life,
9:31
Speaker 1: I did not want to see his body. And I
9:34
Speaker 1: remember I turned and looked into where his coffin was,
9:40
Speaker 1: and I saw the very top of his face above
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Speaker 1: the edge of the coffin and passed out. I passed
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Speaker 1: out right there and came to to the smell of
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Speaker 1: those that horrible smell of carnations, you know, that cloying smell.
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Speaker 1: What is that? Just Scott, when you you heard miss Sanders,
10:04
Speaker 1: this is Andre Smith's mother say sheep blacked out, which
10:08
Speaker 1: I take to mean pass out? What is How do
10:11
Speaker 1: you get so upset you pass out? There's no greater
10:15
Speaker 1: pain in this world than death. I've had a lot
10:17
Speaker 1: of people talk about it, of course, I've seen it
10:19
Speaker 1: throughout my career, and it hits you in a place
10:22
Speaker 1: that's almost primal because in my estimation, you're suddenly face
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Speaker 1: to face with the finality of the end of it,
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Speaker 1: the end of life. What happens in your body, it's
10:35
Speaker 1: almost like a shock, a sudden shock, and I when
10:38
Speaker 1: I'm when I say that I'm talking about you'll have
10:41
Speaker 1: a dip in blood pressure, you get faint light headed.
10:46
Speaker 1: The world just seems to swim about you. I've experienced
10:49
Speaker 1: this with death and my own family as well. I
10:50
Speaker 1: think a lot of us have, and it's just that
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Speaker 1: that final realization, and it's it's hard. I've just never
10:57
Speaker 1: really thought it through about what happened when I saw
11:02
Speaker 1: part of Keith's face in that coffin, but I just
11:06
Speaker 1: completely fell out. Doctor Angela Arnold renowned psychiatrists joining us
11:10
Speaker 1: in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie,
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Speaker 1: what I guess Joe Scott would have a physical explanation
11:19
Speaker 1: about your blood pressure dropping. I bet you would have
11:22
Speaker 1: a psychiatric or psychological explanation. Well, you know, Nancy, it's
11:27
Speaker 1: it's traumatic. So in all of these cases, what you're
11:31
Speaker 1: describing is a trauma and we never know how our
11:37
Speaker 1: you know, our body has a fight or flight respond
11:41
Speaker 1: and we just lose everything inside of ourselves when they're
11:44
Speaker 1: such a trauma. And that's why it's so difficult to
11:47
Speaker 1: recover from a trauma. And there and I understand that
11:52
Speaker 1: the mom is taking some anti anxiety medicine. There are
11:55
Speaker 1: other there's some good types of therapy that I can
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Speaker 1: recommend for her. I'm going to hook you two up
12:00
Speaker 1: when we get off the air, Doctor Angie. Wonderful and
12:03
Speaker 1: I want to tell you I really appreciate you offering that.
12:06
Speaker 1: Thank you, because she can't get enough help right now.
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Speaker 1: And Nancy, it's a trauma. It is a trauma and
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Speaker 1: you have to go through. If you can go through,
12:16
Speaker 1: it's never going to make it better or different for her.
12:18
Speaker 1: But she has to survive because she's the survivor. At
12:22
Speaker 1: this time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking
12:39
Speaker 1: about and I mean a gorgeous young man talking about
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Speaker 1: twenty six year old Andre I mean big smile, all
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Speaker 1: decked out and some really expensive tennesseeese. I don't know
12:54
Speaker 1: what those are, but just smiling at the camera and
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Speaker 1: he looks like a grow man to us, but to
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Speaker 1: Miss Sanders, that's her little baby. And thinking about her
13:07
Speaker 1: hunched over the wheel of a car at us Did
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Speaker 1: you say a speedway gas station, Yes, ma'am. My sister,
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Speaker 1: Like I said, we shared locations, and to my knowledge,
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Speaker 1: I passed out because when I when she got there,
13:22
Speaker 1: she was shake I was bent over the steering bills.
13:25
Speaker 1: She was shaking me like get up, get up, press shoes,
13:27
Speaker 1: get up. And I woke up and she said come on.
13:31
Speaker 1: She grabbed my arm. My nephew was on the other arm,
13:34
Speaker 1: and they were taking me to her car. That's when
13:37
Speaker 1: I woke up and noticed that I was with my
13:39
Speaker 1: sister at that time. When did you next see your
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Speaker 1: son Andre? When we got to Tilly's Pub where his
13:47
Speaker 1: body was laying underneath a car, you actually saw him
13:55
Speaker 1: underneath the car. Yeah. The detectives would not let me
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Speaker 1: come closer, but I see it's Tish underneath the car.
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Speaker 1: All I wanted to do was see my town and
14:09
Speaker 1: they would not let me get close to him because
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Speaker 1: of the severity of his face. He was stuck underneath
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Speaker 1: the car. Richard Essex joining me and earlier you heard
14:23
Speaker 1: his voice our friend at w isaac SHTV. He is
14:28
Speaker 1: their prime investigative reporter. You can find him on Twitter
14:32
Speaker 1: at Richard Essex three Roman numeral three. Richard, I would
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Speaker 1: feel this way the ram feeling right now every time
14:42
Speaker 1: I started a murder case, because sometimes the facts are
14:48
Speaker 1: like a big wave, they just come and just hit
14:50
Speaker 1: you and knock you over. And when I hear Miss
14:54
Speaker 1: Sanders talking about passing out at that speedway gap station,
15:00
Speaker 1: out there all alone in her car, knowing her son
15:04
Speaker 1: is dead, and then being taken and seeing him up
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Speaker 1: under a car outside a restaurant parking lot in a
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Speaker 1: restaurant park you start me off, Richard Essex, thank you
15:16
Speaker 1: for being with us what happened that night? Well from
15:20
Speaker 1: talking to the police and talking to Miss sanders sisters,
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Speaker 1: and by the way, Miss Sanders, your story is heartbreaking.
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Speaker 1: It almost brings me to tears. Just listening to what
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Speaker 1: you're saying and talking to your sisters, I replay that
15:37
Speaker 1: the hour or so that I spent with them last week.
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Speaker 1: What strikes me from all of this is how it's
15:44
Speaker 1: impacted her family. So many of them were brought up
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Speaker 1: to Tillie's Bar as their son nephew was right there
15:56
Speaker 1: underneath the car. Guys, take a listen to our friends
15:59
Speaker 1: now at fifty nine breaking News from Indie's North Side.
16:03
Speaker 1: We have confirmed with police a pedestrian was hit and
16:06
Speaker 1: killed by a car in front of a strip mall.
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Speaker 1: This happened early this morning, around twelve thirty near Tillies
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Speaker 1: Pub on East eighty second Street and Dean Road. Officers
16:15
Speaker 1: say they're looking for witnesses to try and piece together
16:18
Speaker 1: exactly what happened and more from our friends at wiss
16:23
Speaker 1: is Camilla Fernandez. Some people tell me this is an
16:27
Speaker 1: unusual occurrence for this part of the city. I've never
16:30
Speaker 1: been there, but I know just this area in general,
16:33
Speaker 1: especially with the new apartments, and people are always walking
16:37
Speaker 1: around and the customers are just always so nice. It's
16:41
Speaker 1: kind of disturbing a little bit because this area is
16:45
Speaker 1: very clean and nice. People should, you know, try to
16:48
Speaker 1: get together and get along, you know, stop this violence.
16:52
Speaker 1: Police are asking anyone with any information to come forward.
16:56
Speaker 1: Police searching for witnesses to help solve the mystery surround
17:00
Speaker 1: founding the death of this young man with us today
17:04
Speaker 1: his mother, Miss Sanders and Richard Essex, along with our
17:08
Speaker 1: panel whose you're joining us from wish so Richard. I'm
17:13
Speaker 1: hearing witnesses speaking to Keno Fernandez stating what a nice
17:18
Speaker 1: area it is, and how this is very unusual, which
17:22
Speaker 1: proves to me, just because you're in a nice area,
17:25
Speaker 1: you are not insulated from crime. Tell me about the
17:29
Speaker 1: area where this restaurant is. It's only we're sit of Indianapolis.
17:33
Speaker 1: It's an area of town that has some of the
17:37
Speaker 1: better shops. There's some of the cleaner shopping malls. It
17:42
Speaker 1: is a nice area, has been a nice, safe area
17:46
Speaker 1: for decades. But like every other city, major city in America,
17:53
Speaker 1: Indianapolis is not insulated from the violence that has been
17:58
Speaker 1: criss crossing the country. And this particular area has seen
18:02
Speaker 1: some spikes, as has the rest of the city. And
18:06
Speaker 1: regardless of how nice your area is, sometimes violence creeps
18:09
Speaker 1: into your back door. And what about this restaurant, Chillies?
18:13
Speaker 1: Is it Chili's Pub? It's Stillies Pub. It has been
18:16
Speaker 1: around for a long long time. Used to be a
18:18
Speaker 1: favorite with some of the NBA players and coaches here
18:22
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis. A lot of them live up in that
18:25
Speaker 1: area and it has been known to bring in some
18:29
Speaker 1: higher profile people. There's expensive shops right behind you, right
18:33
Speaker 1: out their back door. When you say expensive shops, what
18:35
Speaker 1: do you mean by that? Brooks brothers. You know that's
18:38
Speaker 1: type plays. It's more of a higher end shopping center.
18:41
Speaker 1: That's pretty high end. You know, the Golden fleece and
18:44
Speaker 1: all that. Have you ever priced at a suit there?
18:47
Speaker 1: Forget it, Okay, I get your drift. Fancy people, fancy stores,
18:54
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Celebs hanging out at this bar.
18:59
Speaker 1: NBA players hanging out at this bar. Darryl Cohen joining
19:03
Speaker 1: me right now, high profile lawyer joining me out of
19:05
Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction. Former felony prosecutor now defense and civil attorney,
19:11
Speaker 1: Daryl cohen Man. I learned that pretty quickly when I
19:15
Speaker 1: joined you at the Fulton County District Attorney's office. You
19:18
Speaker 1: have high crime areas where people are out literally on
19:22
Speaker 1: the street, selling dope. I told you the first time
19:25
Speaker 1: I saw that in a police report. I keep the
19:27
Speaker 1: officer out of court. I was knee. I didn't know
19:29
Speaker 1: any better. The officer wrote in history report, I was
19:32
Speaker 1: approached by a man on the corner waving in glassing bag.
19:35
Speaker 1: I'm like, do you think I'm I may have used
19:38
Speaker 1: a few curse words at that time. That was before
19:40
Speaker 1: I had the twins. Do you think I believe that
19:42
Speaker 1: somebody walked up to you with a glassing bag of coke.
19:45
Speaker 1: Get out a dead docut of the case. All right,
19:50
Speaker 1: I go out on the street safe. Three months later,
19:52
Speaker 1: in that same area, I stopped at a red light.
19:55
Speaker 1: Guess what happened? A guy waved a glassing bag of
19:58
Speaker 1: dope at me. A feeling that went over my body
20:02
Speaker 1: when I realized the cop and telling me the truth.
20:05
Speaker 1: Don't worry. I revived the case. Long story short. There
20:09
Speaker 1: are areas that are high crime, and there are areas
20:12
Speaker 1: you go to take your family to dinner and you
20:15
Speaker 1: don't think you're going to get killed in the parking lot. Nancy.
20:18
Speaker 1: This is different. This is targeted crime. This happens. So
20:22
Speaker 1: do you believe Daryl Cohen that this was targeted? I
20:25
Speaker 1: got to agree with you. When somebody, I mean Richard Essex,
20:28
Speaker 1: didn't a driver run over Andre three times? Yes? And
20:33
Speaker 1: if you look back through the report you could even
20:35
Speaker 1: argue that it was a fourth to ten fourth attempt.
20:38
Speaker 1: So the part had two run over, back up and
20:43
Speaker 1: run over again. Is that how it worked? Yes, from
20:47
Speaker 1: reading through the record, made a run at at Andre
20:52
Speaker 1: and as friend as they were coming out of Tilly's
20:55
Speaker 1: and somebody deflected, and she was able to maneuver a
20:59
Speaker 1: car out and then hit him on the side and
21:04
Speaker 1: knocked him down, and then ran over him. Run over
21:07
Speaker 1: him again twice, guys, and then we have a twist
21:12
Speaker 1: in the case. Take a listen to our friends at
21:17
Speaker 1: wt h R thirteen. New info in the death of
21:20
Speaker 1: a man whose girlfriend was accused of running him over
21:22
Speaker 1: in a bar parking lot. Court documents revealed that Galen
21:25
Speaker 1: Morris told police she did not mean to run over
21:28
Speaker 1: Andre Smith. She actually told police she meant to hit
21:30
Speaker 1: the woman that he was with at Tillie's Pub and grill.
21:33
Speaker 1: Those documents also revealed that Morris initially denied putting an
21:36
Speaker 1: air tag in the car to track him. She then
21:38
Speaker 1: admitted to placing it in the back seat. She's now
21:41
Speaker 1: charged with vehicular homicide and goes on trial in September.
21:44
Speaker 1: Air tag transferred intent. I didn't mean to run over him,
21:49
Speaker 1: I meant to run over and kill her. Take a
21:53
Speaker 1: listen to our cut eight our friends at Fox fifty nine.
21:57
Speaker 1: The family of the man killed in this parking lot
21:59
Speaker 1: outside Tilly's Pub believes the death was the result of
22:02
Speaker 1: a fatal obsession. The prosecutor hopes the murder charge in
22:05
Speaker 1: this case, as well as a second similar murder charge
22:08
Speaker 1: filed this week, sends some important messages to everyone, curing
22:15
Speaker 1: food out to his car in this parking lot along
22:17
Speaker 1: eighty second Street. Last week, twenty six year old Andre
22:21
Speaker 1: Smith found himself ambushed and run over three times. Police
22:25
Speaker 1: believe the driver that night was a woman who tracks
22:28
Speaker 1: Smith to Tilly's Pub. We are devastated, man, heartbroken. I
22:32
Speaker 1: really don't think nothing can justify my cousin being gone.
22:36
Speaker 1: Smith's family told me that while the suspect, Galen Morris,
22:39
Speaker 1: believes Smith was cheating on her with another woman, Smith
22:43
Speaker 1: was not dating the suspect at the time, but they
22:46
Speaker 1: believe she had become obsessed with his personal life. This
22:49
Speaker 1: aviad David claims Morris admitted she put a tracker in
22:53
Speaker 1: the backseat of Smith's car and followed him to the
22:56
Speaker 1: pub via GPS air tags two. Ray's mother, Miss Lafcia Sanders,
23:03
Speaker 1: Miss Sanders, when did you learn that his ex his
23:07
Speaker 1: girlfriend ex girlfriend had confessed had admitted she ran down
23:14
Speaker 1: your boy in cold blood. It's not like she was
23:18
Speaker 1: a drunk driver or it was an accident. She did
23:22
Speaker 1: it on purpose. Then sea. I found out when I
23:25
Speaker 1: died on the scene because I had seen her car.
23:29
Speaker 1: And that's when I found out when the detective walked
23:33
Speaker 1: up to me and told me the victim's name, I mean,
23:35
Speaker 1: the person's name that killed my father. Did you know her?
23:39
Speaker 1: I had met her because they've been knowing each other
23:42
Speaker 1: for quite some time. They've been dating off and awful
23:45
Speaker 1: quite some time. I've met her maybe three times in total.
23:50
Speaker 1: What does she how does she sing to you? How
23:53
Speaker 1: did she present when you met her before? I really
23:58
Speaker 1: can't say, because I mean it was just more like
24:01
Speaker 1: a high end by type of thing. Where were you
24:03
Speaker 1: when you met her? He had brought her to a
24:06
Speaker 1: house that I was standing during that time, And this
24:09
Speaker 1: was like in two thousand and seventeen, maybe, so he
24:14
Speaker 1: brought her over and met you. Yeah, yes, ma'am. And
24:19
Speaker 1: she seemed normal during that time. Yes, you just see Michael,
24:24
Speaker 1: regular person, like a regular normal lady, normal girl, whatever
24:28
Speaker 1: you want to call her. She seemed normal at that time.
24:32
Speaker 1: This reminds me so much of a case we just
24:36
Speaker 1: covered about a thirty something year old pH d student,
24:40
Speaker 1: her name n Jinsk Dicks. She had dated a guy
24:44
Speaker 1: a couple of you know, months, maybe weeks, and he
24:48
Speaker 1: broke up and this PhD student, I've got pictures of her.
24:53
Speaker 1: She looks all put together, like she's in one of
24:56
Speaker 1: those Brooks Brothers ads. She drives across the country, stalks
25:02
Speaker 1: his apartment, his condo, just the way that this woman,
25:08
Speaker 1: Galen Morris is charged with stalking Andrea and then shoots
25:14
Speaker 1: him dead because he broke up with her. Listen to
25:17
Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online. According to Hickman's family, Dix
25:21
Speaker 1: had started stalking her former flame after the split, and
25:25
Speaker 1: that even though she was from out of state, she
25:28
Speaker 1: somehow found out where he lived. In Washington, DC. Shortly
25:32
Speaker 1: before five thirty pm, police responded to reports of gunfire
25:37
Speaker 1: at the apartment complex in the nation's capital. Police entered
25:41
Speaker 1: an apartment where they found a male individual who had
25:45
Speaker 1: been shot. They found Nijinsky Dix kneeling beside the bullet
25:49
Speaker 1: ridden body of Terry Hickman, who was pronounced dead at
25:53
Speaker 1: the scene. Police said Dix was holding a gun in
25:56
Speaker 1: her left hand, which officers ordered her to put down.
26:00
Speaker 1: She was also on speakerphone with someone who identified themselves
26:04
Speaker 1: to authorities as her mother to stalk someone to electronically
26:11
Speaker 1: stalk someone in this case, after you've been broken up
26:16
Speaker 1: with taking a lesson hour cut for this Felicia Lawrence WTHR.
26:21
Speaker 1: And we're getting some answers to what may have happened
26:23
Speaker 1: before a man ended up dead in a north sidebar
26:26
Speaker 1: parking lot. Court documents reveal his girlfriend has admitted to
26:30
Speaker 1: the crime. Those court documents also state that Galen Morris
26:34
Speaker 1: told another woman she had used an air tag to
26:37
Speaker 1: track Andre Smith to Tilly's Pub because he was cheating
26:40
Speaker 1: on her. The same woman told police she saw Morris
26:44
Speaker 1: run over Smith three times before getting out of the
26:46
Speaker 1: car and coming after Another woman to Laprecia Sanders joining
26:51
Speaker 1: us as suss Andre's mother. So if these reports are
26:56
Speaker 1: in fact true, and I have no reason to doubt that,
26:58
Speaker 1: miss Sanders, she Galen Morris, age twenty six, stalked your
27:04
Speaker 1: son like a deer, like a bunny rabbit, the way
27:10
Speaker 1: you follow one in a scope. She stalked him with
27:14
Speaker 1: an air tag. Yes, ma'am, it was an air tag.
27:19
Speaker 1: When did you learn that? I learned that? Um? I
27:23
Speaker 1: think it was like the next day after my son's death,
27:27
Speaker 1: the detective, the detectives called me and he explained to
27:31
Speaker 1: me that the young lady had placed an air tag.
27:36
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna mention what kind of air tag, but
27:38
Speaker 1: she placed the air air tag on the passenger seat
27:41
Speaker 1: of the car of his car. And they were broken up,
27:45
Speaker 1: weren't they? Hadn't he broken up with her? Yes, ma'am.
27:48
Speaker 1: He had separated from her. Um he was currently at
27:52
Speaker 1: my grandmother's house at um, you know, living with her
27:56
Speaker 1: for a little bit. But his clothes and things were
27:57
Speaker 1: still at the apartment that him and Galen his share together.
28:01
Speaker 1: So this was a fresh breakup. He had moved in
28:04
Speaker 1: with his grandmother and some of his stuff still at
28:07
Speaker 1: the suspect's apartment. Joining me right now is Lee Reber,
28:12
Speaker 1: mobile device forensic expert CEO of Oxygen Forensics AT an
28:17
Speaker 1: author of Mobile Forensic Investigations, A Guide to Evidence Collection. Wow,
28:25
Speaker 1: that's pretty impressive, Lee Reeber, thank you for being with us.
28:27
Speaker 1: Explain what is an air tag and how does that work? Sure? Sure,
28:32
Speaker 1: thanks Nancy. So it's really not new technology, you know,
28:37
Speaker 1: it's it's it's what's it's a Bluetooth low energy device.
28:42
Speaker 1: So what that simply means is it uti wis is
28:46
Speaker 1: Bluetooth to say notify a device So here's an example McDonald's.
28:54
Speaker 1: McDonald's is one of the largest purchasers of these beacons,
28:58
Speaker 1: bluetooth beacons that if you're a McDonald's and you suddenly
29:03
Speaker 1: get an AD that might come up onto your phone,
29:06
Speaker 1: it's simple use of this bluetooth technology. I don't know
29:10
Speaker 1: what you're saying. I'm sorry they did not teach me
29:12
Speaker 1: that in law school. What do you mean, I'm Animcdonald's
29:14
Speaker 1: in an AD comes up on my phone. Sure, so
29:17
Speaker 1: if you go in. We'll take another example. A lot
29:19
Speaker 1: of grocery stores will use these bluetooth beacons. So you're
29:25
Speaker 1: going down and you're thinking about buying some soup, and
29:28
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, on your phone, you now
29:30
Speaker 1: receive an AD for Campbell's Chunky soup that you might
29:35
Speaker 1: be looking for. Those pop up on your phone. Right.
29:39
Speaker 1: And so in the case of these or earned air
29:42
Speaker 1: tag simply Apple calls us an eyebeacon and what it
29:48
Speaker 1: allows people to do using the find my service of
29:53
Speaker 1: Apple to be able to track these little tokens if
29:58
Speaker 1: they place them on an object. Okay, wait, we used
30:00
Speaker 1: toka and you mean the air tag looks like, for instance,
30:05
Speaker 1: a suitcase tag that you would put on there with
30:07
Speaker 1: your name on it. Yeah. Yeah, just think of it
30:09
Speaker 1: just an object, a physical object that you can place.
30:13
Speaker 1: Lee Reber. Hold on one second. I think miss Sanders
30:15
Speaker 1: wants say and go ahead, Miss Sanders, um, But Lee
30:18
Speaker 1: Reaber is trying to explain. I was told that my
30:21
Speaker 1: son by the young lady that was with him at Tilly's.
30:25
Speaker 1: He kept telling her that someone is tracking us, but
30:29
Speaker 1: he didn't He didn't know it was a device in
30:31
Speaker 1: his car. But he know he was being tracked by someone,
30:34
Speaker 1: but he didn't think it was the girl, the Galen girl,
30:38
Speaker 1: or you know, he just didn't know who was. So
30:40
Speaker 1: they checked him, the young lady that he was with
30:42
Speaker 1: at this Tilly club, They checked the car, they checked around.
30:45
Speaker 1: They didn't find anything because it looked like a quarter
30:47
Speaker 1: or something. It was underneath his passenger seat. So he
30:50
Speaker 1: knew he was being followed, but he didn't know by
30:52
Speaker 1: who or anything like that. KNA Wait a minute, then,
30:56
Speaker 1: Lee Reber, how would he have known he was being followed? Yeah.
31:00
Speaker 1: So the interesting thing that Apple actually added was the
31:06
Speaker 1: ability because when they first released with the air tags,
31:10
Speaker 1: this is a big issue and it still is a
31:11
Speaker 1: big issue with stocking is that these they sounds they
31:17
Speaker 1: weren't hearing. They wouldn't know really that they had a
31:22
Speaker 1: device that was, say, following them or within their vehicle.
31:27
Speaker 1: Now Apple's actually added so that if they have an
31:31
Speaker 1: iPhone or an eye device it then they get a
31:35
Speaker 1: notification on their device indicating, hey, you have an unknown
31:41
Speaker 1: device writing it. Okay, wait a minute, so let me
31:43
Speaker 1: try to translate what you're saying into regular people talk.
31:47
Speaker 1: I think what you just said is if some if
31:51
Speaker 1: you have, if you're being tracked by an air tag,
31:54
Speaker 1: then you'll hear a little book or a little something,
31:56
Speaker 1: a paying or electronic sound notifying you that somewhere around
32:01
Speaker 1: you there's an air tag. Is that what you just said? Correct? Correct?
32:04
Speaker 1: And so it is. It's because it's a it's not
32:07
Speaker 1: paired to stay your device, right, it's an unknown it's
32:11
Speaker 1: an unknown device or air tag that was you know,
32:15
Speaker 1: within the area that you are in. When you say
32:19
Speaker 1: it's not a paired to your device, that means it's
32:20
Speaker 1: not hooked up to your phone or your iPad. It's
32:23
Speaker 1: in your area. Like, my children just went on their
32:28
Speaker 1: school trip. They haven't gotten to go for three years.
32:32
Speaker 1: I guess because of COVID, so they finally got to
32:34
Speaker 1: go to the Grand Canyon. Okay, all I could envision
32:38
Speaker 1: was the falling off a ledge. So they also couldn't
32:42
Speaker 1: take their cell phones, so they couldn't communicate with us.
32:46
Speaker 1: And at the last minute, when we were saying goodbye
32:49
Speaker 1: at four am, in the parking lot of the school,
32:52
Speaker 1: a dad had extra air tags and I said, what
32:58
Speaker 1: did you do with those? He said, I put them
32:59
Speaker 1: on the backpack, and he gave me two. I put
33:03
Speaker 1: them on the twins backpack. I couldn't communicate with them,
33:06
Speaker 1: but I could see that they were moving around where
33:09
Speaker 1: they were supposed to be out at the Grand Canyon,
33:13
Speaker 1: which gave me a lot of comfort. But I didn't
33:15
Speaker 1: imagine Richard Essex joining us. Wish that air tags would
33:21
Speaker 1: be used in such a nefarious way as they were
33:25
Speaker 1: by this woman Galen Morris, age twenty six to track
33:28
Speaker 1: down her ex Andre like a dog. She apparently told
33:34
Speaker 1: somebody in the parking lot that there was a GPS
33:37
Speaker 1: monitoring device in his car, and she knew that his
33:40
Speaker 1: car was in that parking lot, and she had been
33:44
Speaker 1: questioning people up and down in front of this shopping area.
33:48
Speaker 1: Have you seen a guy that with this description inside
33:52
Speaker 1: of the bar, and she was walking up and down
33:55
Speaker 1: and she saw it, so she knew exactly where his
33:58
Speaker 1: car was, and she went up and down right to
34:00
Speaker 1: find him. And there's no way around to Daryl Cohen,
34:03
Speaker 1: based on what Richard sx W SH is telling us
34:05
Speaker 1: that this is premeditated, I don't think this should be
34:08
Speaker 1: vehicular homicide, which is often treated like manslaughter, like oh,
34:13
Speaker 1: I had a car crash. No, she had to plant
34:17
Speaker 1: the air tag in his car, She had to follow
34:21
Speaker 1: it around, She had to get in her car, crank
34:24
Speaker 1: up her car, put it in reverse, put it and drive,
34:26
Speaker 1: drive to the location. Then she had to look for him.
34:30
Speaker 1: Then she had to get back in her car, wait
34:33
Speaker 1: for him to come out, crank up, put it in drive,
34:36
Speaker 1: and mow him down three times. That's plenty of time.
34:41
Speaker 1: Premeditation under the law can be formed. And the blink
34:45
Speaker 1: of an eye, an instant, the twinkling of a moment,
34:48
Speaker 1: that's time to form premeditation. This is murder one, Daryl Cohen,
34:54
Speaker 1: be Nancy, I don't care about the air take. What
34:56
Speaker 1: I care about is what she did. You don't I do?
35:00
Speaker 1: I don't because that's getting there I'm talking about being there.
35:04
Speaker 1: She ran him over once, she read him over twice,
35:07
Speaker 1: she ran him over three times. That is instant premeditation.
35:11
Speaker 1: That is instant murder. Taking away. If the court rules
35:14
Speaker 1: at the air tags are not admissible, you still have
35:17
Speaker 1: her for doing a heeno's trunk crime. And when horror
35:21
Speaker 1: happens and you don't ever expect it, horror is now
35:25
Speaker 1: and then. And ma'am, I am so sorry for your
35:28
Speaker 1: loss for your son. It is beyond the pale. I'm
35:31
Speaker 1: just sick about it. I'm just sick about it. And
35:35
Speaker 1: over what I break up? I mean, Miss Sanders, has
35:39
Speaker 1: this woman tried to communicate with you, Nancy, She better
35:44
Speaker 1: not try to communicate with me, because right now my
35:49
Speaker 1: family and I are hiring. We're hurting really really bad.
35:54
Speaker 1: I'm lost, I'm numb. I don't feel like I even
35:58
Speaker 1: have a soul anymore. She took for me crime stories
36:18
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace and Sanders. Tell me something. What was
36:26
Speaker 1: he like as a little boy? Oh man full of joy? Uh.
36:31
Speaker 1: He loved to wrap, he loved to play. He was
36:34
Speaker 1: just like a normal typical kid. Um. He was a
36:38
Speaker 1: love child, like everybody loves joy. Like that was a
36:43
Speaker 1: love child. He was asleep privacy. He wouldn't harm anybody.
36:48
Speaker 1: He just loved to put a whole clothes. He loved clothes, shoes, dude,
36:52
Speaker 1: that was that was and he just he didn't deserve
36:56
Speaker 1: what she did to my side. So now we have
37:01
Speaker 1: to very much out and you know, Joe Scott, what
37:06
Speaker 1: he went through, what he went through, He did not
37:10
Speaker 1: die immediately, and to die up under a car like that,
37:15
Speaker 1: trying to lift up his head, trying to live. He
37:20
Speaker 1: did not die immediately, Jeff Scott Morgan, No, he didn't.
37:24
Speaker 1: And but this is if there is a silver line,
37:28
Speaker 1: in which there isn't much of one. When this case
37:32
Speaker 1: is prosecuted, Andre is going to speak in court, and
37:34
Speaker 1: he's going to speak through his injuries. This is you know,
37:38
Speaker 1: you you'll have, as dearly pointed out just a moment ago,
37:42
Speaker 1: he was struck multiple times. And unlike a firearm, when
37:45
Speaker 1: you use a car to facilitate something like that, each
37:49
Speaker 1: one of these contacts leaves a specific type of evidence
37:53
Speaker 1: relative to an individual's body, and so you'll have a
37:57
Speaker 1: bumper mark. Remember he was they described being him having
38:01
Speaker 1: been clipped initially, which essentially knocked him to the ground
38:05
Speaker 1: by the bumper and will find on his body what's
38:09
Speaker 1: referred to as a bumper mark. It's this a braided area,
38:12
Speaker 1: and then the attorneys will be able to tell the
38:14
Speaker 1: story through the forensic mythologists and what he went through.
38:18
Speaker 1: Because I suspect that this isn't just blunt forced trauma, Nancy.
38:22
Speaker 1: I suspect that this there is a compression element that
38:25
Speaker 1: is involved in this, where there was an asphyxial event
38:29
Speaker 1: that occurred. Are you trying to say it couldn't breathe Yeah, yeah,
38:32
Speaker 1: his chest couldn't rise and fall because he can't take it.
38:35
Speaker 1: I can't take it. I can't take it anymore. I
38:37
Speaker 1: have to go. I can't tell you. I can't miss Sanders.
38:40
Speaker 1: I understand. Please Jackie let her go because this is
38:44
Speaker 1: too much for her. I mean, doctor Angie, did you
38:47
Speaker 1: hear that the mother can't even stand to hear these
38:50
Speaker 1: facts about her son. This is a disorder that this
38:54
Speaker 1: girl had. But it is not insanity. You told me.
38:57
Speaker 1: It's some type of disorder. Yes, there's actually a name
39:01
Speaker 1: for us. It's called obsessive love disorder. And everything about
39:07
Speaker 1: this woman projects this disorder to me. Now I hear
39:12
Speaker 1: you're saying disorder and on the street from me, regular
39:18
Speaker 1: vernacular disorder measures you're ill. This girl is not ill.
39:23
Speaker 1: She's angry, and yes she's obsessed. But that is not
39:28
Speaker 1: a defense, doctor Angie Arnold. No, I am not saying
39:31
Speaker 1: it's a defense. But I'll tell you something, Nancy. The
39:33
Speaker 1: reason I bring it up is because if other people
39:36
Speaker 1: know the signs of things like this that they can
39:39
Speaker 1: look out for in someone that is perhaps m glomming
39:44
Speaker 1: onto their child and trying to make a relationship with
39:48
Speaker 1: that child. People need to be able to look out
39:51
Speaker 1: for these signs and symptoms. And I think that that's
39:53
Speaker 1: a I think that that's something else that we bring
39:56
Speaker 1: to this, to what you do on this, Okay, Nancy,
40:00
Speaker 1: I want people besides me to know the signs and
40:04
Speaker 1: symptoms of something like this so they can look for it. Right.
40:07
Speaker 1: What give me some signs and symptoms? Okay. Some of
40:10
Speaker 1: the symptoms can include, you have an overwhelming attraction to
40:14
Speaker 1: one person. Okay, then you start to have obsessive thoughts
40:19
Speaker 1: about that person. You may feel the need to protect
40:23
Speaker 1: the person that you're in love with, Okay. You also
40:27
Speaker 1: become very possessive of them, extreme jealousy over any kind
40:32
Speaker 1: of other interpersonal interactions that they have, and typically the
40:37
Speaker 1: person with this disorder actually has a very low self esteem. Okay,
40:43
Speaker 1: you'll see them. You'll see them sending repeated texts and
40:48
Speaker 1: emails and phone calls. They have a constant need for reassurance.
40:53
Speaker 1: They have a hard time maintaining friendships with other people
40:59
Speaker 1: because of their obsession with this one person. So you said,
41:04
Speaker 1: we heard in this that they had been together for
41:07
Speaker 1: three years, and something that really struck me was that
41:10
Speaker 1: the mother didn't really know her very well. She had
41:13
Speaker 1: only met her like three times. You and I both
41:17
Speaker 1: know that if someone were in one of our children's
41:19
Speaker 1: lives for three years, we would know everything about that person,
41:22
Speaker 1: wouldn't we. Yeah, I was just saying, I know the
41:24
Speaker 1: twins play dates better than that exactly. There is no
41:29
Speaker 1: way we would be able to say, oh, I've only
41:31
Speaker 1: seen that person once a year in the last three
41:33
Speaker 1: years for my loved one. Oh heck no. Okay, doctor Angie,
41:37
Speaker 1: You're still going to hook up with miss Sanders after
41:39
Speaker 1: we get off the air, right, Yes, I am. I've
41:41
Speaker 1: got some great advice for her. Okay, guys, there is
41:44
Speaker 1: a go fund me for andre A. Smith. There is
41:48
Speaker 1: a go fund me. If you want to know more
41:50
Speaker 1: about that, go to crime online dot com. Back to
41:52
Speaker 1: Richard Essex, wish wish TV. Where does it stand now?
41:57
Speaker 1: Please tell me? This is graduated from a vehicular homicide
42:02
Speaker 1: to murder one and I understand that Indiana is a
42:06
Speaker 1: death penalty state. The prosecutor has filed a murder charge
42:11
Speaker 1: a felony against her, and we don't see this very
42:16
Speaker 1: often where the prosecutor in this county particularly acts so
42:20
Speaker 1: quickly and so decisively, I think he will bring out
42:25
Speaker 1: all guns. So to speak. Hey, darn well better, Richard Essex.
42:29
Speaker 1: I'm going to be about three inches up his rear
42:32
Speaker 1: end because Daryl Cohen A lot of times. You know
42:35
Speaker 1: this as well as I do. Prosecutors won't seek the
42:38
Speaker 1: DP on a female because they know they probably won't
42:43
Speaker 1: get it statistically. But I mean, you track somebody down
42:48
Speaker 1: like a bunny rabbit and then wait outside late in wait,
42:54
Speaker 1: then run them over three times. Oh h, double l H.
43:00
Speaker 1: Even if they don't get the DP. This is the
43:03
Speaker 1: case that the DP was meant for. I guess you
43:07
Speaker 1: want to fight with me about that. No, I do not.
43:10
Speaker 1: This is definitely a des penalty gayst But on the
43:12
Speaker 1: other hand, Nancy, I hope she gets it, and I
43:15
Speaker 1: hope the appeals go on forever. So every minute of
43:19
Speaker 1: every day that she's still alive, she is being punished
43:22
Speaker 1: because the death penalty, unfortunately it is over. But until
43:27
Speaker 1: it's over, let her be punished. No, I'm not fighting
43:30
Speaker 1: with you on this one. I'm telling you. When I
43:32
Speaker 1: heard miss Sanders have to get have to leave our
43:35
Speaker 1: program because she could not take it. When Joe Scott
43:39
Speaker 1: said his lungs were compressed, this woman needs to go
43:45
Speaker 1: down for a lot more than vehicular homicidel like this
43:48
Speaker 1: was an accident. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace
43:53
Speaker 1: comes story, signing off goodbye.