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NOT RANDOM: Victor Avila on The Cartel Surveillance of Nancy Guthrie · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

0:00
Speaker 1: We still don't really know. Is Nancy Guthrie's abduction Does
0:04
Speaker 1: that have anything to do with the cartels. It's not
0:06
Speaker 1: that far from the border, they questioned some guy twelve
0:08
Speaker 1: miles from the border. In fact, could there be a
0:11
Speaker 1: cartel connection? And with that in mind, how about the
0:14
Speaker 1: cartel stuff that just happened on Sunday taking out some
0:16
Speaker 1: big cartel leader. And now the entirety of Mexico appears
0:20
Speaker 1: to be either fighting for territory or mad at the
0:22
Speaker 1: United States. Let's talk about Nancy Guthrie. You and I
0:25
Speaker 1: have talked about hostage taking. Mexican cartels do this for profit.
0:28
Speaker 1: They hold people for ransom for profit. They will kidnap
0:32
Speaker 1: high importance people will kidnap people who are there vacationing,
0:37
Speaker 1: and generally speaking, they get paid to release the people.
0:39
Speaker 1: If not, those people are in dire straits victory in
0:42
Speaker 1: your heart of hearts, do you think there's any connection
0:44
Speaker 1: between the Mexican cartels and Nancy Guthrie? Is that even possible?
0:49
Speaker 1: I mean, she didn't live that far from the border,
0:51
Speaker 1: and some of the people of interests that they were
0:53
Speaker 1: talking to are very close.
0:54
Speaker 2: To the border.
0:57
Speaker 3: You know, you can never say never.
0:58
Speaker 2: I think definitely there's a because of the proximity and
1:00
Speaker 2: the location. You know, to some Arizona it's so close
1:03
Speaker 2: to the border that there's something that obviously you have
1:05
Speaker 2: to look at, you have to pay attention. Uh, none
1:08
Speaker 2: of this makes sense to me, Joe, as my special
1:11
Speaker 2: agent had is put on and my criminal investigator courses
1:14
Speaker 2: and everything that I look at and crime scene prevention
1:17
Speaker 2: and everything. It doesn't make any sense because when it
1:20
Speaker 2: is a kidnapping for ransom, there is a reaction, there
1:25
Speaker 2: is a phone call, there is any negotiation, especially even
1:28
Speaker 2: to the ones that they call them. There's a term
1:30
Speaker 2: called kidnap express where they actually take the victim and
1:33
Speaker 2: you know, driver around to separate atm machines to withdraw
1:37
Speaker 2: as much money as they can. That's another But that
1:40
Speaker 2: didn't happen here, or they did. Why why would they?
1:43
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't make any sense to get rid
1:45
Speaker 2: of the get rid of the person or the body
1:46
Speaker 2: of the the entity of what they're trying to get
1:49
Speaker 2: their their their agenda, their cross. So one of the
1:51
Speaker 2: things that I ask is one of them, as a
1:54
Speaker 2: criminal investigator, what is the motive? That's one of the
1:56
Speaker 2: first questions what is the motive of the person committing
1:59
Speaker 2: the crime. If you're going to break into a house
2:02
Speaker 2: and commit a burglary, there is a motive. And there's
2:05
Speaker 2: a reason why a burglary of habitation is considered a
2:08
Speaker 2: crime of violence because a lot of times that motive
2:12
Speaker 2: of that burglar when they break into a house is
2:15
Speaker 2: to go steal something of value. But he could easily
2:18
Speaker 2: turn into a violent encounter because if a person isn't
2:22
Speaker 2: at home, it could turn into a rape, it could
2:24
Speaker 2: turn into a stabbing, a shooting, whatever else and escalate
2:27
Speaker 2: very very quickly. Is that what happened here? That's what's
2:30
Speaker 2: very puzzling about it.
2:31
Speaker 1: Well, like you said, she's the commodity, and if you
2:33
Speaker 1: want to ransom, you're going to have to show that
2:35
Speaker 1: the commodity, the commodity, is alive and well and that
2:37
Speaker 1: the money would be well spent together her back It
2:39
Speaker 1: doesn't appear to be happening from the videos that we've seen.
2:42
Speaker 1: We see the one video of the guy at the door,
2:44
Speaker 1: at the front door. But now just two days ago
2:46
Speaker 1: they released a picture I still picture of the guy
2:48
Speaker 1: from the same door. Doesn't have a backpack on. It's
2:51
Speaker 1: from a different day, But it clearly appears to be
2:53
Speaker 1: the same guy with the same sort of get up on.
2:55
Speaker 1: Does that tell you anything as an investigator? The guy
2:58
Speaker 1: went there before, he actually went to do it that
3:00
Speaker 1: night and then goes back and then actually does the
3:03
Speaker 1: deed and leaves, whether clearly he left with her because
3:06
Speaker 1: she's not there, What does that tell you?
3:09
Speaker 2: It's the old recon, it's the old you know, drive by,
3:12
Speaker 2: it's the setup. It's the get to know the location,
3:17
Speaker 2: whether it's a business, whether it's a residence, get to
3:19
Speaker 2: know the entry points, the exit points, the vulnerabilities of
3:22
Speaker 2: that building. And I think that's that's what this this
3:25
Speaker 2: person was doing, is they're there, they're actually doing a
3:28
Speaker 2: recon and checking on and what what what they're actually
3:31
Speaker 2: going to be doing the following day or whatever it
3:33
Speaker 2: is that they're actually going to do the activity. That's
3:35
Speaker 2: what seems to have been happening here. So there's the
3:38
Speaker 2: premeditation here, there's the planning. Uh, there's a lot of
3:42
Speaker 2: a lot of things that that I think there's a
3:44
Speaker 2: lot of footage out there and a lot of other
3:46
Speaker 2: possible angles that I think hopefully comes to light so
3:49
Speaker 2: they could get their family member back well.
3:51
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, I mean, you just said this,
3:53
Speaker 1: but I'll say I'll say it Agather's reiterated a different way.
3:56
Speaker 1: Clearly she was targeted. This wasn't some random guy said, hey,
3:59
Speaker 1: this is a neat neighborhoo, let me go in and
4:00
Speaker 1: see if I can get into this door and go
4:02
Speaker 1: get get a lady. This is somebody. He had to
4:04
Speaker 1: have known that she lived there, had to have known
4:06
Speaker 1: that she was the target. Does that tell you that
4:09
Speaker 1: we can now make the assumption that they knew it
4:11
Speaker 1: was Savannah Guthrie's mother, or maybe we don't even know that.
4:13
Speaker 1: Maybe he just saw her coming home a few nights
4:15
Speaker 1: and said that this would be an easy target for me.
4:17
Speaker 1: What do you glean from that?
4:20
Speaker 2: I think it's very easy to find out anybody that's
4:23
Speaker 2: trying to do that type of activity, to find out
4:25
Speaker 2: who actually lives in a residence as much like me,
4:27
Speaker 2: as much as protection as I get, I think people
4:29
Speaker 2: would I eventually find out. It's not that hard, especially
4:32
Speaker 2: with the technology around, and it wouldn't be hard to
4:35
Speaker 2: find out that, you know, the next is of the
4:37
Speaker 2: of this lady with Savannah Guthrie and the next of
4:42
Speaker 2: can and family ties here is that the reason why
4:46
Speaker 2: is that the motive is it? Money? Is it? What
4:48
Speaker 2: is it that they were trying to So it all
4:49
Speaker 2: goes back to the original motive that was intentioned, because
4:53
Speaker 2: if that motive was broken into something else, then you
4:55
Speaker 2: got to find the angle of where it was broken
4:57
Speaker 2: to follow that lead.
4:59
Speaker 1: What a car tellerver you? Crypto? Is that something the
5:01
Speaker 1: cartels do? Now?
5:03
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
5:04
Speaker 2: Yes?
5:04
Speaker 1: Really so so this still and that that doesn't exclude
5:07
Speaker 1: them if they're saying send.
5:08
Speaker 2: Us crypto, no, this this is I'm glad you bring
5:11
Speaker 2: that up because this is the level of sophistication that
5:14
Speaker 2: the cartel's are work in. And yes, crypto is a
5:18
Speaker 2: lot of any kind of business that you can think
5:20
Speaker 2: you could channel money through there or cipher money through
5:24
Speaker 2: a certain business or avenue. They're going to do it.
5:26
Speaker 1: It is Victor Ovula, Assistant Director O n DCP looking
5:30
Speaker 1: at this case specifically. There's so much interest in this case.
5:33
Speaker 1: And and Savannah released that other video yesterday and you
5:36
Speaker 1: can't help it out, but your heart hurts to watch her,
5:38
Speaker 1: you know, going through this, what's likely to happen? I mean,
5:41
Speaker 1: in the investigations that you've done over the years, and
5:43
Speaker 1: you've done some high level international investigations. What's the likely
5:46
Speaker 1: outcome here? This one seems to be different than any
5:48
Speaker 1: other case. I can remember.
5:51
Speaker 2: One thing I can I keep hearing a lot is
5:53
Speaker 2: that this is not a cold case, and certainly not yet.
5:57
Speaker 1: What is that? What does that tell you? If they
5:59
Speaker 1: say that, they announce it's not told they have stuff
6:01
Speaker 1: that we don't know about.
6:03
Speaker 2: Well, they don't want to categorize that, because once it's
6:06
Speaker 2: a cold case, it goes into a different category, different investigators,
6:09
Speaker 2: different The level of priority doesn't mean that it's going
6:12
Speaker 2: to go away, but the level of priority does change.
6:15
Speaker 2: And I don't think they're quite there to make that determination.
6:19
Speaker 2: And hopefully they're saying it because they have some other
6:22
Speaker 2: leads to go by, and a lot of it has
6:24
Speaker 2: to do with the information that was released to the
6:26
Speaker 2: public what wasn't released, And I think they're you know,
6:29
Speaker 2: they have to kind of regroup at this point and say,
6:32
Speaker 2: what other resources do we have? Are we going to
6:34
Speaker 2: continue to use FBI resources, other state and local resources,
6:38
Speaker 2: and other people that kind of come in with fresh eyes,
6:41
Speaker 2: And that's never a bad thing. This doesn't mean that
6:43
Speaker 2: they're doing a bad thing. It's just sometimes that when
6:45
Speaker 2: you're staring it from within, it's always good to get
6:48
Speaker 2: a fresh pair of eyes from the outside and look
6:51
Speaker 2: at the obvious that sometimes you missed, and so sometimes
6:53
Speaker 2: that helps a lot and say, hey, did you actually
6:55
Speaker 2: look at this vehicle? Did you look at this? And
6:58
Speaker 2: question other things, not check on them, but just kind
7:01
Speaker 2: of giving a different pair of eyes in perspective.
7:04
Speaker 1: A few things that happened in this investigation victory that
7:06
Speaker 1: really really jump out at me. And again, I'm not
7:08
Speaker 1: an investigator, That's why I have friends like you, but
7:11
Speaker 1: in seeing that they released the crime scene like a
7:13
Speaker 1: day or two later, didn't make any sense. Seeing that
7:15
Speaker 1: they let the pool guy show up. We're all watching
7:18
Speaker 1: the pool back clean the pool while there's an active
7:19
Speaker 1: investigation happening at that house. A lot of people used
7:22
Speaker 1: the bathroom inside the house. When you see it treated
7:26
Speaker 1: like that, would you assume that it's just amateuristic and
7:29
Speaker 1: they're not sure, they're not used to a case like this,
7:31
Speaker 1: or do you think that was just really incompetence They
7:33
Speaker 1: should have known better.
7:36
Speaker 2: It's definitely hard to see that I had to answer
7:38
Speaker 2: that question because I wasn't there, but I could tell
7:41
Speaker 2: you based on my training of crime scene prevention and
7:45
Speaker 2: taking care of that. It was definitely kind of curious
7:49
Speaker 2: to see the reporter standing right by the blood that
7:51
Speaker 2: was spilled in the front of the porch here of
7:53
Speaker 2: the house, and like.
7:54
Speaker 1: They that's that's how that's how we saw it. They
7:56
Speaker 1: went up with a camera and literally are standing there.
7:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I find out as well, And so
8:02
Speaker 2: that was kind of kind of weird, and say, why
8:03
Speaker 2: isn't Why isn't the first thing you rope off the
8:06
Speaker 2: entire property to try to preserve as much of the
8:10
Speaker 2: evidence or potential evidence. I just know that anything could
8:14
Speaker 2: be evidence. You have no idea it could be. It
8:15
Speaker 2: could be a piece of paper, It could be anything
8:17
Speaker 2: in that in that household or in the surrounding property.
8:21
Speaker 2: That could potentially be a huge league for this case.
8:24
Speaker 2: And I hope that it's still there and they could
8:25
Speaker 2: still retrieve it.
8:27
Speaker 1: It is Victor ovul Victor, one last question. I always
8:29
Speaker 1: appreciate the time and the access. Thanks for making time today.
8:32
Speaker 1: And by the way, you and I agree, last night's
8:35
Speaker 1: speech was amazing. When he talked about the fifty six
8:37
Speaker 1: percent reduction in fetanol, I thought about you and Sarah immediately,
8:40
Speaker 1: I know the hard the work that you're doing. Let's
8:42
Speaker 1: finish this way. We see a lot of municipalities now
8:46
Speaker 1: not wanting to work with federal agencies, not wanting to
8:48
Speaker 1: work with HS. So how where you used to work,
8:50
Speaker 1: not wanting to work with ICE or CVP not working
8:52
Speaker 1: wanting to work with with DHS at all. Do you
8:55
Speaker 1: think there's anything that we can compare and contrast with
8:58
Speaker 1: this guy into some in Pieva County, this guy in
9:00
Speaker 1: Nanos And the reason I say that is early on
9:04
Speaker 1: it was it was put out there by people who
9:06
Speaker 1: work in the department. They don't like him. By the way,
9:08
Speaker 1: he had a ninety eight percent non approval rating by
9:10
Speaker 1: his own deputies. They were starting to leak out that
9:13
Speaker 1: he was in contact in the FBI and that the
9:15
Speaker 1: FBI had to sort of insert themselves. Could this be
9:18
Speaker 1: a case and again I want to just beat this
9:19
Speaker 1: guy up and don't know the guy. I'm just going
9:20
Speaker 1: on what we know. Could this be a case of
9:23
Speaker 1: a local municipality saying we're not going to work with
9:25
Speaker 1: the feds, and if so, why do they do that?
9:29
Speaker 3: It definitely can be I mean, I've been through all
9:30
Speaker 3: of them joining.
9:31
Speaker 2: My career, those that have great relationships with the state
9:34
Speaker 2: and locals, and some that just would not want to
9:36
Speaker 2: talk to us. And it really is a shame when
9:38
Speaker 2: that when the latter happens, because we need them. I
9:42
Speaker 2: always wanted to have a local or uniform officer every
9:45
Speaker 2: time I did any kind of enforcement activity, even something
9:47
Speaker 2: as simple as a traffic stop or and of course
9:51
Speaker 2: moving in you know, into a search warrant or a restaurant.
9:53
Speaker 2: We always had the locals with us. And now in
9:56
Speaker 2: my new position, I happen to be the State and
9:58
Speaker 2: Local and Tribal corp. Because that's how important. This is.
10:02
Speaker 2: The gap that exists, it does exist, it's not as
10:05
Speaker 2: bad anymore between the FEDS and the state and locals
10:08
Speaker 2: has to be diminished. The information has to flow easily
10:12
Speaker 2: both ways, and I want to see that happen. I
10:15
Speaker 2: could tell you that within the FEDS it's getting a
10:18
Speaker 2: lot better, way better than you know twenty years ago,
10:21
Speaker 2: and the information sharing is fluid. But we have to
10:25
Speaker 2: do that with the stained locals because we need each other.
10:27
Speaker 2: It's not that the FEDS are better than the state.
10:29
Speaker 2: It's none of that. It's about solving crimes like these.
10:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean work together. There's really no reason not
10:34
Speaker 1: to work together. And I thought that we got rid
10:36
Speaker 1: of those barriers that you're talking about. After nine to
10:39
Speaker 1: eleven we found out that the CIA and FBI and NSA,
10:41
Speaker 1: we're not working together, so they didn't realize that planes
10:44
Speaker 1: can be used as weapons into buildings. And then the
10:46
Speaker 1: promise was under George W. Bush and now till today,
10:49
Speaker 1: is that we're all just going to work together to
10:51
Speaker 1: try to solve crime. We're all going to work together
10:52
Speaker 1: to keep people safer. And it seems like they're ramping
10:55
Speaker 1: up the other side seems to be ramping up this
10:57
Speaker 1: let's not work with them because somehow they're bad and
11:00
Speaker 1: we're good. How do we get rid of that completely?
11:02
Speaker 1: Is there a way to do that? Uh?
11:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is.
11:07
Speaker 2: I can tell you that we're actively do that almost
11:09
Speaker 2: every single day here with our Heid Task Forces, our
11:12
Speaker 2: Home Homeland Security Task Forces, our hstfs that were recently
11:16
Speaker 2: recently created by the White House. We are actively working
11:19
Speaker 2: without every single day to be able to push that
11:21
Speaker 2: information both ways, and it is a challenge at times,
11:26
Speaker 2: but I could tell you and firsthand that the federal
11:29
Speaker 2: government has become way you mentioned nine After nine eleven,
11:32
Speaker 2: it's way different. I remember that when there was nothing
11:34
Speaker 2: being shared, and right now it's an incredible cooperation amongst
11:39
Speaker 2: our brothers and sisters and all these law enforcement entities.
11:42
Speaker 2: We realize we're on the same team. We want the
11:44
Speaker 2: same mission, we want the same result, and eventually is
11:48
Speaker 2: to save lives and make a public safety a priority.
11:51
Speaker 1: I wasn't familiar with this guy, Elle Menchho, I think
11:54
Speaker 1: that's what his name was. I wasn't familiar with him,
11:56
Speaker 1: but I'm guessing that you were. How big a deal
11:58
Speaker 1: was this guy?
12:00
Speaker 3: Huge?
12:01
Speaker 2: Joe, It's a huge deal.
12:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
12:04
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I did know about this guy, and a lot
12:06
Speaker 2: of us in this world knew about ELEMENTO for a
12:09
Speaker 2: long time. The head of the Cartelhali School New Generation
12:11
Speaker 2: or CJ ANDG for short, which are the number one
12:14
Speaker 2: producers and manufacturers and distributors of meth andphetamine and fentannel
12:19
Speaker 2: as well, but mostly meth. And they're the ones involved
12:23
Speaker 2: in the avocado trade, the lime trade, and many other things,
12:27
Speaker 2: the stolen diesel and fuel from Texas from Mexico. So
12:31
Speaker 2: these are terrorist organizations no longer just drug cartels. They're
12:34
Speaker 2: foreign terrorist organizations, and they were on the list that
12:37
Speaker 2: President Trump designated as such. And I'm telling you there
12:41
Speaker 2: was some good news on Sunday when he finally went down,
12:44
Speaker 2: something that we didn't think that was going to happen.
12:46
Speaker 2: But this is where when the cooperation between Mexico and
12:49
Speaker 2: the United States actually starts coming together. I worked in Mexico,
12:52
Speaker 2: as you know, and we have always been there. We
12:55
Speaker 2: have cooperated with money, with funds, with training, with intelligence,
13:00
Speaker 2: you name it. And and this is the actual fruits
13:03
Speaker 2: of that support that we've been given for such a
13:05
Speaker 2: long time that this is the type of action that
13:07
Speaker 2: we actually are looking for from Mexico. And yes, maybe
13:10
Speaker 2: it's because of the pressure of the United States on
13:13
Speaker 2: Mexico and other countries. We saw what happened in Venezuela,
13:16
Speaker 2: and I think we're going to continue to see more
13:18
Speaker 2: of this.
13:19
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you about this guy specifically, but Victor,
13:21
Speaker 1: the reputation is he was especially brutal, like pulling out
13:25
Speaker 1: and pulling out eyes and ripping people limb from limb.
13:28
Speaker 1: I mean, is this all folklore? Who is this guy really?
13:31
Speaker 2: Unbelievably brutal, unbelievable brutal, probably one of the most violent
13:35
Speaker 2: cartels out there. This all happened back with the Zettas.
13:38
Speaker 2: They're the ones that up the game on the violence
13:40
Speaker 2: of you know, decapitating people, taking people's hearts out of
13:44
Speaker 2: their chests while they're still alive, and horrific things like that.
13:46
Speaker 2: I'm talking about barbaric type of medieval type of actions
13:50
Speaker 2: on human beings and the human trafficking world and the
13:54
Speaker 2: smuggling all under Biden that the cartels started taking over
13:58
Speaker 2: over all. That why because of the money that it produced.
14:01
Speaker 2: These guys. Their ideology might not be a religious ideology,
14:04
Speaker 2: but it's a power and money ideology that keeps them
14:08
Speaker 2: in force and also keeps them in power in Mexico.
14:11
Speaker 2: Which what happens, Joe. They start controlling the government, they
14:14
Speaker 2: start controlling the politics, they start controlling the media, and
14:17
Speaker 2: they actually have a stronghold on the entire country. President
14:20
Speaker 2: Trump knows this, we all know this, and so to
14:23
Speaker 2: see these types of actions that Mexico has taken. By
14:25
Speaker 2: the way, it's not just a Menchel. We're talking about
14:27
Speaker 2: Mayo Sambaba, We're talking about El Chappo, We're talking about
14:30
Speaker 2: almost one hundred prisoners and cartel members that the US
14:35
Speaker 2: has finally received from next tradition from Mexico. So we
14:39
Speaker 2: have to give credit with credits due, and Mexico is
14:42
Speaker 2: finally stepping up.
14:43
Speaker 1: You and I have talked about this a lot. It's
14:44
Speaker 1: Victor Ovular, Assistant Director O M DCP, a great friend
14:47
Speaker 1: of ours. Go to Victor Ovula speaks dot com is
14:49
Speaker 1: his website. You and I have talked about this a lot.
14:51
Speaker 1: We weren't really sure about Scheinbaum. We weren't really sure
14:54
Speaker 1: about what the next president would do, how she would
14:57
Speaker 1: do it. I know that there's a balancing act when
14:58
Speaker 1: you're the leader of Mexico because the cartells have a
15:00
Speaker 1: lot of strength, not only strength through their drug dealing
15:03
Speaker 1: and human trafficking and sex trafficking, but political strength. They
15:06
Speaker 1: actually donate a lot of money to get people in
15:08
Speaker 1: office that will work with them. So going in we
15:11
Speaker 1: were a little apprehensive. But has she stepped up as
15:13
Speaker 1: much as you'd like to see?
15:15
Speaker 2: Not quite there for my liking. But I'm telling you,
15:18
Speaker 2: this is a great direction that she's going in. And
15:21
Speaker 2: you know, I've been talking about this a lot. She's
15:23
Speaker 2: been in a difficult position. We're talking about Clyde Steinbaum,
15:25
Speaker 2: She's she's in the middle of between Donald Trump, the cartels,
15:30
Speaker 2: and her own political party because her own political party
15:32
Speaker 2: is a socialist communist party and that's their ideology. So
15:36
Speaker 2: think about that when we are having this discussion. They
15:39
Speaker 2: don't think like you and I do as capitalists here
15:41
Speaker 2: in the US and the free world, and that does
15:44
Speaker 2: matter and that we have to take that into consideration.
15:46
Speaker 2: So when you see actions like this, it speaks a
15:49
Speaker 2: lot louder than the words that she actually says, because
15:52
Speaker 2: if you pay attention to the press conferences that she
15:55
Speaker 2: holds every morning, it's completely the opposite. You would think
15:58
Speaker 2: that Mexico would never do that. She's against military action,
16:02
Speaker 2: she's against going violently against the cartels. But you know,
16:06
Speaker 2: I like to concentrate more on the actual actions that
16:09
Speaker 2: she's doing rather than the words.
16:11
Speaker 1: Victor Avula always appreciate the time and the access. So
16:14
Speaker 1: what's going on in Mexico right now? Because originally I
16:17
Speaker 1: thought it was they're going to go after Americans because
16:19
Speaker 1: American intelligence helped to make this happen, so it sounds
16:22
Speaker 1: like they might have been doing that, But then they
16:23
Speaker 1: went after an airport. Then they're lighting cars on fire.
16:26
Speaker 1: It looks like there might be a territory or a
16:27
Speaker 1: turf battle going on. And then you hear about twenty
16:30
Speaker 1: five Mexican National Guards members being killed. Are they just
16:34
Speaker 1: shooting and killing everybody right now because there's mayhem? Or
16:36
Speaker 1: is there a plan although it's sinister, Is there some
16:39
Speaker 1: sort of a plan to get reorganized now that they
16:41
Speaker 1: lost their leader.
16:43
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they're definitely going to try to reorganize. This is
16:46
Speaker 2: where we have to take advantage on both sides of
16:48
Speaker 2: the border and not allow them to reorganize. This is
16:51
Speaker 2: where the dismantling and this disruption of these organizations takes place.
16:55
Speaker 2: What you saw with the fires and the destruction of
16:58
Speaker 2: the cities and the airport is the cartel showing the
17:02
Speaker 2: public this is the power that we have over this,
17:05
Speaker 2: over this these territories. And it wasn't just Walajada Halischool.
17:09
Speaker 2: It was like several states around the country and all
17:11
Speaker 2: the way to tj on the other side of the
17:13
Speaker 2: border of San Diego. So it just goes to show
17:15
Speaker 2: the presence that they have in that country and the
17:17
Speaker 2: power they have. And so right now, because they are scrambling,
17:21
Speaker 2: we have to take advantage and not let them to reorganize. Now,
17:25
Speaker 2: I'll give you the example of the Zetta's. What happened
17:27
Speaker 2: with us after our shooting is they were they were disrupted,
17:30
Speaker 2: and they eventually were dismantled. Now there was a faction
17:33
Speaker 2: of them that that that created a new cartel called CDN,
17:37
Speaker 2: but the Zettas were gone. This I'm hoping that this
17:40
Speaker 2: happens with CEJNG that then leads us to Sinalo and
17:43
Speaker 2: the others.
17:44
Speaker 1: The videos that we're seeing out of Mexico Victor, are
17:46
Speaker 1: we seeing intra sort of gang battles. Are we seeing
17:50
Speaker 1: inter cartel battles? Are we seeing the battle inside of
17:53
Speaker 1: this one cartel to see who the leader is going
17:55
Speaker 1: to be? Because again it looks like there were civilians
17:57
Speaker 1: that are involved as well, and they're certainly going after
17:59
Speaker 1: the national Guard, They're going after the federalities, whoever they
18:02
Speaker 1: can go after that they think did this. But what
18:04
Speaker 1: are we seeing when we see all these video of
18:06
Speaker 1: plumes of smoke coming out of different cities and cars
18:08
Speaker 1: that are on fire and people taking over gas stations,
18:10
Speaker 1: what are we seeing? What is going on there?
18:13
Speaker 3: This is the cartel protesting.
18:15
Speaker 2: This is the way these guys protest, which is killing
18:18
Speaker 2: and hurting anyone that's in their way. But I actually
18:20
Speaker 2: don't believe that there's going to be an infight as
18:23
Speaker 2: to who's going to take over. It's because you have
18:26
Speaker 2: to think of these organizations. They're highly sophisticated, just like
18:29
Speaker 2: a CEO and a board of a corporation. If a
18:32
Speaker 2: CEO would be taken out, more than likely a new
18:35
Speaker 2: one would be voted in by the same organization. And
18:38
Speaker 2: I think that's what's going to happen here. They're going
18:39
Speaker 2: to regather, they're going to pick their own person, They're
18:41
Speaker 2: going to vote that person in that's going to be
18:43
Speaker 2: the head of their organization. I don't think there might
18:45
Speaker 2: be some people that want to fight for it. I
18:47
Speaker 2: don't think that's quite what's going to happen here because
18:49
Speaker 2: they're so sophisticated. But one thing I do want to
18:51
Speaker 2: mention Joe is you got to understand there's a lot
18:53
Speaker 2: of small factions of cartels within under the umbrella of
18:58
Speaker 2: the cartel. HI he's going to in generation, so those
19:01
Speaker 2: they go under their own name, but supply and report
19:04
Speaker 2: directly to see J and G. Those factions are the
19:08
Speaker 2: ones you actually have to worry about because they might
19:11
Speaker 2: go rogue and they might want to do something on
19:13
Speaker 2: their own without the permission of the big organization.
19:15
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, because that was the
19:17
Speaker 1: next question. Did we disrupt or did whoever to come
19:19
Speaker 1: out disrupt the supply chain? Is there going to be
19:22
Speaker 1: a slowing of drugs and whatever else that they're working
19:24
Speaker 1: on in that specific cartel between now and whenever they
19:28
Speaker 1: find a new leader, or does that machine just keep
19:30
Speaker 1: on going.
19:32
Speaker 3: That's a great question.
19:33
Speaker 2: I actually I think what's going to happen is we
19:35
Speaker 2: might see a surge at the border, possible fentannel and
19:39
Speaker 2: meth kind of Listen, they're not going to stop moving
19:42
Speaker 2: their drugs, and so it's still being manufactured. There's still
19:47
Speaker 2: is still piling up. It kind of reminds me of
19:49
Speaker 2: what happened during COVID. All of a sudden, there was
19:51
Speaker 2: tons and tons of drugs on the Mexicans Mexican side,
19:53
Speaker 2: and they couldn't get it across. I think right now
19:55
Speaker 2: they're going to say, oh yeah, well here you go,
19:57
Speaker 2: and they're going to try to push as much of
19:59
Speaker 2: that poison into our country. But because of the way
20:02
Speaker 2: we are now, set up on the other side of
20:04
Speaker 2: the border with our military border patrol and standon locals.
20:08
Speaker 2: It's going to be you're going to see a lot
20:10
Speaker 2: of these seizures encounters go up as well.
20:13
Speaker 1: Is a lot of the drugs still coming across the border?
20:15
Speaker 1: Victor because another the border is closed. We have not
20:17
Speaker 1: released any illegal aliens into this country since President Trump
20:20
Speaker 1: took office. That's an unbelievable stat and it's true. But
20:24
Speaker 1: you're still getting drugs come across the border. How are
20:26
Speaker 1: they doing it now? Did they change exactly how they
20:28
Speaker 1: did it before? Biden would just let him in and
20:31
Speaker 1: just he was eating ice cream. He didn't know what
20:32
Speaker 1: was going on. So it was a porous border that's
20:35
Speaker 1: now been locked down. Are they doing it through tunnels?
20:37
Speaker 1: Are they doing it through the sea? Are they doing
20:40
Speaker 1: it somehow, you know, smuggling across in big rigs. They're
20:43
Speaker 1: still getting the drugs in at a much lower rate,
20:45
Speaker 1: thank god, but they're still getting them in. How are
20:47
Speaker 1: they doing it now and compared to how they did
20:49
Speaker 1: it two years ago?
20:50
Speaker 2: So let me start by answering that we've seen the
20:52
Speaker 2: fifty six percent drop of fentannel coming to the border
20:55
Speaker 2: a mandelieable stat. The President mentioned that stat yesterday in
20:58
Speaker 2: the speech. By the way, yes the drugs are still coming. Yes,
21:02
Speaker 2: the cartels, believe it or not, have gone back to
21:04
Speaker 2: the original old ways when I was still an narcotics
21:08
Speaker 2: agent of how they are using the regular landboard parts
21:12
Speaker 2: of entry to bring the drugs, vehicles, you name it,
21:15
Speaker 2: if you can think about it. They're gonna redo it
21:18
Speaker 2: and they're gonna go back to those tactics again. Under
21:21
Speaker 2: the Biden years, we saw a lot of it in
21:23
Speaker 2: between the ports of entry because there was nobody there.
21:25
Speaker 2: There was no border patroy. Remember. So right now that
21:27
Speaker 2: they're there, they're actually going to go back to the
21:29
Speaker 2: port of entries the cargo areas, yes, semi semis and
21:34
Speaker 2: many others, money and other things going through the border.
21:36
Speaker 2: So yes, it's reduced drastically, but it doesn't mean it's stopped.
21:41
Speaker 1: It is Victor Avulo, the assistant director on DCP, former
21:44
Speaker 1: federal agent. He was in a gunfight with a Mexican cartel.
21:48
Speaker 1: In fact, his partner Heimi Zapata was killed. You were shot,
21:52
Speaker 1: and I thank god that you survived. Let's talk about
21:54
Speaker 1: the Canadian border. I had an interview the other day
21:56
Speaker 1: where they said, you know, these cartels have enough money
21:58
Speaker 1: and they have enough wherewithal the go around the contiguous
22:01
Speaker 1: United States and then start bringing the drugs in from
22:04
Speaker 1: Canada instead. Is that border a focus right now at all?
22:07
Speaker 1: Are we looking at that one to tighten that one
22:09
Speaker 1: up to.
22:11
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
22:11
Speaker 2: We We can't forget about our northern border and Canada
22:14
Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, going are.
22:15
Speaker 1: The cartels doing that? Are the cartels doing that? Are
22:18
Speaker 1: they going to Canada?
22:20
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely, Fentanyl, there's a there's fentonal trafficking through that
22:23
Speaker 2: border as well. Listen, they're gonna find any porous area.
22:27
Speaker 2: They're not gonna be able to bring it to the
22:29
Speaker 2: southern border. They'll go through the northern border. And we
22:31
Speaker 2: are in community constant communication with our Canadian partners because
22:35
Speaker 2: of that, and we are actually meeting with them and
22:37
Speaker 2: talking to them. Our international component was just at a
22:41
Speaker 2: big conference in Canada. So we're not ignoring the northern border.
22:45
Speaker 2: And I'm glad you bring it up because that's still
22:48
Speaker 2: a big factor when when we see all this activity.
22:51
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, maybe Cartoli is going to
22:52
Speaker 2: be generation is going to say, well, we can't you know,
22:54
Speaker 2: all the attention is on us. Now, maybe we find
22:57
Speaker 2: different routes in our different contacts.
22:59
Speaker 3: Remember you and.
22:59
Speaker 2: I I have talked about this, Joe. They're here in
23:02
Speaker 2: the US, They're in Canada and in sixty five countries
23:05
Speaker 2: around the world. They're not just in Mexico, and they're
23:08
Speaker 2: going to start reaching out to those contacts all over
23:11
Speaker 2: the countries to move their drugs.
23:13
Speaker 1: Accordingly, let's break this down. They are here, You're right
23:16
Speaker 1: And by the way, it's Victor Ovula. Go follow him
23:18
Speaker 1: on social media. Victor ovulas speaks dot com. He's the
23:20
Speaker 1: assistant director O in DCP doing an amazing job along
23:23
Speaker 1: with our good friend Sarah Carter. Let's talk about who's here, because,
23:27
Speaker 1: as you and I have talked about a million times now,
23:29
Speaker 1: the border is wide open, or what it was, I
23:31
Speaker 1: should say under Biden, under my orcis under Kamala Harris.
23:34
Speaker 1: They purposely opened the border. I think for votes, but
23:37
Speaker 1: what do I know? But opening the border also let
23:40
Speaker 1: trendier Agua in it, let MS thirteen in it, let
23:42
Speaker 1: the cartels in. You know where I live. I'm in
23:44
Speaker 1: the San Antonio area, and of course Houston not far away,
23:47
Speaker 1: Dallas not far away. The entirety of Texas, I would assume,
23:51
Speaker 1: and I want you to tell me, even right or wrong,
23:53
Speaker 1: has cartelhouses, has sleeper sales of cartels that are just
23:56
Speaker 1: waiting to bring some more drugs in or maybe start
23:59
Speaker 1: some ahem, big a deal, is it? Who's here? Victor?
24:01
Speaker 1: Do we know.
24:04
Speaker 2: They're all here?
24:05
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, they're all here. They all have their.
24:07
Speaker 2: We have maps that we show of the different concentration
24:11
Speaker 2: areas and states of where certain cartels are highly concentrated.
24:15
Speaker 2: Some in Texas, some in Atlanta, New York, California, Colorado,
24:19
Speaker 2: you name it. They're everywhere in every state. And they
24:22
Speaker 2: used to be here temporarily. They used to come and go.
24:25
Speaker 2: Now they have people permanently here. And the bigger part
24:29
Speaker 2: that a lot of people sometimes when I start talking
24:31
Speaker 2: about this about to tell you, they don't want to
24:34
Speaker 2: kind of believe this. But there's a lot of people
24:36
Speaker 2: that the cartel expands their tentacles, their network to a
24:41
Speaker 2: lot of people in places where you might not ever
24:43
Speaker 2: think that they have cartel activity. And I'm talking of
24:47
Speaker 2: regular US citizens that work at places that you might
24:50
Speaker 2: visit on a daily basis that are connected to these people,
24:53
Speaker 2: either as simple as providing information or sometimes even more
24:57
Speaker 2: nefarious and actually being participants.
25:00
Speaker 1: How do we identify somebody who's here who's a member
25:02
Speaker 1: of a cartel. You're right, they're living in suburban neighborhoods.
25:05
Speaker 1: They've got a nice, big house, their kids go to
25:07
Speaker 1: school with everybody in the neighborhood, and they might be
25:09
Speaker 1: cartel members. How can you possibly identify them? Because not
25:12
Speaker 1: everybody's going to have tattoos that say I'm MS thirteen
25:15
Speaker 1: or I'm trending arragua. How do we find out who
25:17
Speaker 1: they are? Do they have to actually be in the
25:18
Speaker 1: commission of a crime, or do we have some sort
25:21
Speaker 1: of a database somewhere where we could start matching these
25:23
Speaker 1: people up. How does that work?
25:25
Speaker 2: It's very difficult to identify them. And I'll give you
25:28
Speaker 2: one example. One was a lady working at a courthouse
25:31
Speaker 2: that was providing information of paperwork coming in wow to
25:34
Speaker 2: the courthouse, you know, to the cartel member. So that's
25:37
Speaker 2: just one example. There's many others. There's lawyers, there's accountants,
25:40
Speaker 2: there's people that handle with businesses and the money laundering
25:43
Speaker 2: aspect of which is the biggest portion. They got to
25:46
Speaker 2: put their billions of dollars somewhere, the money goes back south,
25:48
Speaker 2: but then it returns back north and it's incorporated into
25:51
Speaker 2: the world banking system. And it is very difficult to,
25:54
Speaker 2: you know, like you said, identify these individuals. They're not
25:58
Speaker 2: they don't look like me. They look like everyday Americans,
26:01
Speaker 2: and they're not wearing cowboy hats and cowboy boots either,
26:04
Speaker 2: and so it's very difficult. And sometimes yes, it's up
26:07
Speaker 2: until we have an encounter with them, either a legal
26:09
Speaker 2: encounter or a criminal justice encounter with them, that we
26:12
Speaker 2: start identifying them and questioning them. But it's through investigations
26:17
Speaker 2: that we start identifying these people and these big conspiracies
26:20
Speaker 2: that involve people that you never thought would have been
26:22
Speaker 2: part of it.
26:23
Speaker 1: Victor Avula, Assistant Director O and DCP, good friend of mine.
26:26
Speaker 1: You know, we haven't gone to the border yet. We
26:27
Speaker 1: have to do that. You have to take me down
26:29
Speaker 1: there at some point. But you guys are down here.
26:31
Speaker 1: I would still like to see what it's all about.
26:32
Speaker 1: I've crossed the Canadian border a lot of times. And
26:34
Speaker 1: the reason why I bring that up is because I
26:36
Speaker 1: used to live in New York and we would travel
26:37
Speaker 1: back and forth to Michigan you'd go through Canada to
26:40
Speaker 1: get there, Victor. This is what they literally said, what's
26:43
Speaker 1: your citizenship the United States? How long are you going
26:45
Speaker 1: to be in Canada? How about six hours going to
26:47
Speaker 1: drive through? Okay, have a good day. That's it. They
26:49
Speaker 1: didn't do anything else. So has that changed? In ernest?
26:51
Speaker 1: Are we now saying asking a few more questions at
26:54
Speaker 1: least what are you trying to do getting from you know,
26:56
Speaker 1: from Canada and into the United States? Are we doing
26:58
Speaker 1: something different now?
27:01
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a little bit more cumbersome than that.
27:03
Speaker 2: I went to Canada and crossed at two different ports
27:06
Speaker 2: of entry uh in the same day, and immediately that
27:10
Speaker 2: was a big red flag for them, which it should
27:12
Speaker 2: have been. H I you know, I easily explained that
27:14
Speaker 2: I had gone on this border versus return on the
27:17
Speaker 2: other one, and and they caught that that, you know,
27:19
Speaker 2: everything's being monitored. Is a lot more attention to that.
27:23
Speaker 2: And on the southern border, by the way, you're looking
27:25
Speaker 2: at four hour wait times on that line to cross
27:28
Speaker 2: into El Paso or McCallen. It's not the same as
27:32
Speaker 2: it used to be. And I know people used to
27:34
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of people want to go into
27:35
Speaker 2: Mexico to buy goods and groceries and tortillas or whatever.
27:39
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden they're like, why I'm
27:41
Speaker 2: spending three hours in line which all of this, by
27:43
Speaker 2: the way, that affects the economy of Mexico. Look at
27:46
Speaker 2: what happened in import of Wayata. People are not going
27:48
Speaker 2: to go for spring break there. I wouldn't recommend it,
27:51
Speaker 2: but that's that's the ripple effect, the bad ripple effect
27:54
Speaker 2: of this cartel activity. So yes, it affects across the board.
27:59
Speaker 1: One last question the cartels, and I do want to
28:01
Speaker 1: get into Nancy Guthrie if you don't mind, but I've
28:03
Speaker 1: got to ask you this. As we're watching the boats
28:05
Speaker 1: being blown out of the water off the coast of Venezuela,
28:08
Speaker 1: as we're seeing Venezuela and the president taken out on
28:11
Speaker 1: a warrant and his wife taken out, did that wake
28:14
Speaker 1: up the cartels in Mexico at all? Did they think
28:16
Speaker 1: to themselves, Oh, crap, this guy isn't messing around. We
28:18
Speaker 1: better be more careful. Or do they not care? They're like,
28:21
Speaker 1: this is the business, this is what I'm doing. If
28:23
Speaker 1: I die doing it, whatever, Because if I were in
28:25
Speaker 1: that business, and God knows, I don't have the wherewithal
28:27
Speaker 1: of be in that business. And you started blowing people
28:30
Speaker 1: up like me in boats in the open water, I
28:32
Speaker 1: might think twice about how I do things.
28:35
Speaker 3: Actually is both.
28:36
Speaker 2: They definitely pay attention, They definitely have all the intulo
28:39
Speaker 2: what's going on, but they don't care. They're still going
28:43
Speaker 2: to continue to do it, although they don't ignore it.
28:45
Speaker 2: They're very well aware of what's going on with Venezuela.
28:48
Speaker 2: But there is some reaction at least from the governments.
28:51
Speaker 2: Look at what's happening. We're talking about Mexico. Look at
28:54
Speaker 2: the reaction from Columbia. I mean that is a one
28:57
Speaker 2: eighty from Columbia. And then another thing they have talked
29:00
Speaker 2: about is Mexico and other countries doing some tremendous seizures.
29:03
Speaker 2: I mean Mexico just alone took down four tons of cocaine.
29:07
Speaker 2: Joe had no idea.
29:08
Speaker 1: Are we reporting that here because I didn't see that.
29:12
Speaker 2: Well, that's the problem. We need to put the message out.
29:14
Speaker 2: And the four tons of cocaine is a significant seizure.
29:17
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, they've taken down ten tons
29:19
Speaker 2: in the last week and a half just from the
29:21
Speaker 2: Mexico coast alone. So it does have an effect when
29:25
Speaker 2: you take Madudo out, and absolutely the governments are paying attention.
29:28
Speaker 2: Whether they're going to make them stop, I don't know,
29:31
Speaker 2: but it's definitely making them do some different actions.
29:33
Speaker 1: Victor Ovula, the assistant director owned DCP great friend of ours.
29:36
Speaker 1: Go to Victor ovula speaks dot com, follow him on socials.
29:39
Speaker 1: Keep up the great work, brother. It's good to see
29:40
Speaker 1: you again, and I'll shoot up next time. I feel
29:42
Speaker 1: like I'm under dress today. What happened.
29:45
Speaker 3: No worries, man, I always appreciate the time for me, Joe,
29:47
Speaker 3: thank you, Good.
29:48
Speaker 1: To see you, Victor. Amazing inside of information from Victor Ovula,
29:51
Speaker 1: and of course we're going to keep on bringing you
29:53
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29:55
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29:58
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30:01
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