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Michelle Shomo Pierce: How a STEM educator uses AI · aiEDU Studios

• 0:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): so we're here in the virtual aiud studios with michelle shamo pierce.
• 0:10
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): She's an educator at mallard creek stem academy, which is a charter school in uh in north carolina yep where in north carolina?
• 0:22
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): charlotte, north carolina charlotte, yeah, um, and michelle, you and I have crossed paths where in North Carolina, charlotte, north Carolina, charlotte, okay, and Michelle, you and I have crossed paths in more than one place.
• 0:33
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think it was certainly at the AI show, the AACGSV Summit, and you're sort of like in the circuit.
• 0:40
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're one of those sort of early adopter educators who has been modeling what AI literacy actually looks like in the classroom.
• 0:46
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, I think you're also the first or you're the second educator that we've had on who's like in the classroom.
• 0:54
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, so I'm really excited to hear more about just really everything, especially just like how you are like sort of reacting to all the hype, all the conversation, all the excitement, all the all the concerns.
• 1:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, but maybe you could just help kick us off, tell us about, paint a picture of sort of your classroom, sort of your day-to-day.
• 1:16
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think a lot of listeners who aren't educators it's been a long time since they've been in the classroom and so they may even forget what it feels like to sort of like walk into the building and sort of like, even like the smells of that like fake plastic.
• 1:28
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Are they like that fake wood?
• 1:30
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Those like small tables I don't know if that does the desks that you have.
• 1:34
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, no, so my classroom is actually a pretty cool spot.
• 1:38
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I wish you could see, but it's.
• 1:39
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We kind of create it's like a mood room, so we do like we don't do overhead lighting, we have like side lighting.
• 1:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I have a diffuser with essential oils going, uh, led lights around the board.
• 1:52
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Um, sometimes we'll have some kind of like lo-fi music playing.
• 1:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I kind of like to create a space where the kids come in and they kind of chill.
• 1:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Um, I feel like it's a good introduction to you know, as we transition into class.
• 2:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But, um, but my day is busy.
• 2:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We're lots of different hats, so you know, I have some time when I first get in to get last minute things together, and then I move into a morning duty.
• 2:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I'm in the hallway greeting students as they arrive, which I actually love.
• 2:15
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Relationship building is a big part of why I think I'm so successful as a teacher, and so that is like my first touch point with the students where I can greet them with a smile, greet them by name, see how they're doing, and then after that I move into teaching my first class.
• 2:32
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so for my classroom it's a little bit different than a lot of traditional core teachers that are teaching the same thing all day long to just different homerooms.
• 2:42
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I'm actually teaching a different curriculum every single class, so there's a little bit of a shift and transition of my brain and my materials to prepare for a different lesson.
• 2:54
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I teach.
• 2:55
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I support sixth, seventh and eighth grade.
• 2:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Every student has to take my class every year, which I'm very thankful.
• 3:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: My administration kind of saw the value of all students having a computer science education, and so they were.
• 3:09
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We were adopters of that before it was a thing.
• 3:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So North Carolina actually just enacted graduation requirements for all students to have to take computer science in either middle school or high school, but my school was already there.
• 3:22
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So every student takes my class every single year, which is it's a good thing.
• 3:28
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But then it's also on me because some students don't want to necessarily be here, so I have to kind of work to get buy-in from them and get them excited about what we're talking about.
• 3:37
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I shift through my three classes, have a lunch duty, then at the end of the day I have a dismissal duty.
• 3:44
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So just kind of a lot of transitions, I would say, before I go home and in his lunch duty.
• 3:52
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're like just making sure the kids aren't like throwing food at each other.
• 3:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Are you sort of like wandering as?
• 3:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're like sitting down at different tables, like I'm trying to remember.
• 4:00
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I know we had a lot of teachers on lunch.
• 4:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I just can't remember what they did yeah, yeah, I mean it's kind of some teachers walk, some teachers sit.
• 4:06
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: For me I think it depends on the day.
• 4:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: If I've been on my feet a lot, I might sit during lunch duty, but yeah, just making sure that the students are staying in their seats.
• 4:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Nobody's doing anything like you said, throwing food or anything else.
• 4:18
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But you know, it's kind of it's not too demanding, put it that way.
• 4:32
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): What, um, what is it like these days with?
• 4:33
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, I think I I was just talking to a friend of mine about um, like thank God that we managed to like eke our way out of high school before social media had really blown up.
• 4:41
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, I had a Facebook account, but I had like one of the first Facebook accounts and it was like my senior year or I guess like late junior year.
• 4:48
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, like, I mean, what are the types of things that just you know good or bad, that just come up with technology?
• 4:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like are kids just like on TikTok all day during lunch?
• 4:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Well, they're not.
• 5:00
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Our students are not allowed to use their phones during the school day at all, and actually North Carolina just enacted a law, for students are not allowed to use their devices during the instructional day at all unless specified by the teacher.
• 5:15
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So we do our very best to make sure that students have their devices put away.
• 5:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: They do get creative and find ways sometimes, but for the most part you know we do a good job of that and the students do a good job of being responsible.
• 5:29
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But you know students are very savvy, so you know now they're using Google Docs the shared Google Docs to chat with each other during the day, like they find ways to be creative.
• 5:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But we do have issues where it's kind of like social media and chat groups cause drama that then trickles into schools.
• 5:48
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that that's something pretty new over the past few years, and so our school has had to adjust our behavior, our handbook, our student handbook, to address those concerns.
• 5:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So now if there is drama, even if it happens at home but it comes into the building, there can be consequences.
• 6:05
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I think just trying to keep up with the changing times and, you know, adjust as necessary has been really important.
• 6:14
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, I mean so much, so much drama, right, like it's uh, I it, it.
• 6:20
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It feels like a privilege to be able to actually, like you know, I would go home from school and that was it.
• 6:25
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): There wasn't, there wasn't like sort of this constant state of seeing what my friends were actually doing, like FOMO just feels different when you can't actually see all the fun that your friends are up to without you.
• 6:36
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I do is I teach a digital citizenship curriculum.
• 6:42
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I use common sense education's free curriculum, and so we talk about those types of things.
• 6:47
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We're actually running through scenarios of okay, so you know, there's this girl, susie, and her and her friends were supposed to go see this new movie, but then Susie got in trouble at the last minute and her friends go to the movies without her.
• 6:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like, how do we feel about that?
• 7:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Would you have gone?
• 7:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Would you have stayed?
• 7:09
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then Susie's saying their social media post about how much fun they're having.
• 7:10
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, should you be posting, should you tag Susie and say, susie, we wish you were here?
• 7:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So those are the types of conversations that I'm having with my students.
• 7:15
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We do this every single year.
• 7:16
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We go through there's roughly like six lessons per grade level, and so we go through and talk about those types of things so that you know we're having the conversations to hopefully give them the tools that when they're in these real life situations, they're like oh yeah, we talked about this.
• 7:31
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Ok, I need to work on de-escalating, you know, and I tell them, like the world is not going to end if you put your phone down and walk away from the group chat for an hour or you step away from social media Like it's OK.
• 7:46
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, what are you supposed to do if your friend gets in trouble?
• 7:48
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I guess I think I would still go to the movie, especially if they deserved it.
• 7:51
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, if it was, if it was, uh, maybe an unjust grounding, I might, maybe, in solidarity, you have to skip the movie, but yeah do you have?
• 8:02
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, like, do you give advice to that level, or is it more about having the students sort of giving the students agency to just like think about what they would do, as opposed to telling them what they're supposed to?
• 8:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: do critically think, but also about being able to hear somebody else's perspective.
• 8:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so you know maybe somebody else in the class looked at it a different way that you hadn't considered.
• 8:29
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so you know we talk about how even adults you know especially with our political climate being as crazy as it is how adults do not always do a good job of listening to other perspectives and considering people's viewpoints other than their own.
• 8:42
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so you know I talk to them about like that's what, that's what we're trying to do.
• 8:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's like computer science is the class, but it's really more the vehicle of which I'm like trying to impart a whole lot of skills on my students, and so we're just using computer science and digital citizenship to do so.
• 8:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But yeah, I'm definitely trying to get them critically thinking.
• 9:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We do a lot with growth, mindset, perseverance, how to keep going when things get a little tough.
• 9:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know we call this the microwave generation, because they want everything instant and fast.
• 9:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So you know well what happens if it doesn't work the first time, because it's not going to always work the first time, just like, you know, my tech here didn't work the first time.
• 9:19
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So trying to just model that and walk through it with them to let them know like it's OK so it's.
• 9:37
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, it's a pretty cool opportunity that I have not only to teach the content but also to teach those 21st century skills that they really need to help them in life.
• 9:43
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's a lot on your shoulders because computer science is that's hard enough to have the responsibility to teach kids CS and then also taking on digital citizenship.
• 9:51
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And this was all before AI.
• 9:53
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And then now this thing, ChatWall I guess it's really GPT 3.5.
• 9:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It was November 30, 2022, it gets released.
• 10:04
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I'm just so curious.
• 10:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): What was your first interaction with?
• 10:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Whether, with language models specifically, you probably were tracking ai before as a computer science person, but I'm like just so curious.
• 10:15
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like, did you?
• 10:16
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Were you the first?
• 10:17
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like, did you use it yourself for the first time?
• 10:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Did you like catch a student cheating with it or cheating?
• 10:22
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: yeah, no, I think it was definitely me using it first.
• 10:26
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But I will tell you, like I am not afraid to admit, I was, like you know, of the mindset like I am not getting on this AI train, Like I literally like there are not many things that I like will say I am not going to do.
• 10:38
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And AI was one that I said I am not going to do this because, to your point, like I'm doing so many things that I just felt like I didn't have the bandwidth to like learn about, not learn something new, because I'm constantly learning new things but something on such a large scale and you know it was very kind of you know, I got volunteered to be on this panel, I got volunteered to go to this conference and then I was like, okay, this AI thing is happening.
• 11:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I got asked to present to this conference and then I was like, okay, this AI thing is happening.
• 11:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I got asked to present Emphasis asked me to present on AI and I was like, okay, like clearly the signs are all pointing to the fact that this is coming and I need to get there.
• 11:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So from then I kind of shifted my mindset and started learning, and so I did start trying things on my own, and it's still a journey, right, Like even now.
• 11:27
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: There are so many things that I'm just learning that, like you know, chat, GPT, for example, can do to make my life easier, and so that's really been it for me is like because I don't want to be one of those educators that gets stuck and it's like no, you know, we're doing things the way we've always done things.
• 11:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like that, that model doesn't work and it's not sustainable.
• 11:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I'm trying to actively learn and implement these things into my own lives and then so I can tell other people about them as well.
• 11:56
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, and as someone sort of the computer science space, you know, I talk a lot about like the, the completely appropriate skepticism that people had, because, it's like you know, we heard about chat gbt and I was also.
• 12:11
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It took me a while I I didn't really use it until like really january, um of 23, which isn't that long, but it was like for someone who's running a non-profit called the ai education project.
• 12:22
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think that surprises people, but you know, like anybody who was sort of in the tech world, we've been hearing all about the metaverse, we've been hearing all about blockchain and crypto and NFTs, and so I was just like, okay, ready for this to be another, just total, overhyped, gimmick technology, total overhyped, yeah, like gimmick technology, um, and I'm trying to think, for me it was my, my husband was, and my husband was like kind of always a little skeptical.
• 12:51
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think he.
• 12:52
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think he like was respectfully like, oh yeah, the ai education project, um.
• 12:56
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But then he was like you actually need to come and see this.
• 12:59
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And he was actually writing blog posts for his company using gbt 3.5, and he was actually writing blog posts for his company using GBT 3.5.
• 13:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And he was like this is kind of good.
• 13:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): He's like this is kind of surprisingly good.
• 13:10
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Were your students a step ahead of you, would you say?
• 13:17
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I'm just kind of curious was there like a period where your students were actually using it before you were, or did it take a little longer?
• 13:23
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): For did they kind of like, did it take a little longer for it to kind of like hit the bloodstream?
• 13:27
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: yeah, I think it took a little bit longer to hit the bloodstream and we actually um.
• 13:31
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So you know, one of the things that can be frustrating, I think, about education is that it can be slow adopters and slow to change um, and so, even you know, we're learning a lot now, like I had had to go to an actual state-sponsored AI workshop conference last year.
• 13:52
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So our school is, like now, working on adopting and creating some AI policies for our students, because we don't have anything right now, and so you know I'm the students aren't necessarily using it in class or talking about using it, but we know they're using it right, and so and that's kind of the message that I've tried to put out there for educators, because some of the presenting that I do is actually specifically towards educators it's, you know, this is not one of those things that we can just say, oh, we're just going to block it.
• 14:22
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, some districts have done that where they've just blocked it and it's like I don't know that that's the most responsible or realistic approach because the students are using it, and so you know, one of the things that I try to do is to kind of remove the veil a little bit, because when we talk about AI, people think about LLMs, but it's like it's so much simpler than that.
• 14:45
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so the way I approach it with my teacher presentations and also with my students is we talk about like the basic stuff, right, when you're using your Alexa, like that's AI, you know.
• 14:56
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I think when we kind of demystify it a little bit, so my eighth graders we actually do a artificial intelligence curriculum so they get to see how recommender systems work, and we do a really fun activity where they actually get to be a recommender system and predict whether or not somebody would like a particular TV show so just kind of breaking it down to those simple levels to explain to people what AI actually is, I think is a little.
• 15:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's a little bit.
• 15:25
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's helpful because when you start talking about LLMs and all of that, like I feel like people get a little scared or a little overwhelmed.
• 15:32
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But it's like AI is simple, like you're already using it.
• 15:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: These are the ways that you're using it.
• 15:36
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's a tool and so how can we teach students how to use the tool responsibly?
• 15:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that's the most important thing is not trying to block it or ban it, but teaching them how to use it responsibly, because it's just, you know, it's a change in, it's just a changing tool.
• 15:52
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Just like, you know, before we had Chromebooks.
• 15:54
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, then Chromebooks get introduced and it's like it's a tool, but we have to teach them how to use it responsibly.
• 15:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I think AI is the same thing, because I've seen personally how it's benefited me, especially with a lot of like administrative tasks.
• 16:07
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I have two children and we're all in different school districts.
• 16:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So every year at the beginning of the school year I have to take everybody's school calendars, which are PDFs, and I have to manually enter them into our Google Calendar so that you know, everybody knows where they're supposed to be when.
• 16:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Google Calendar, so that you know everybody knows where they're supposed to be when.
• 16:29
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And this year, you know, a friend of mine was like I'm pretty sure ChatGPT can do that.
• 16:33
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I went and I prompted it.
• 16:33
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I said, chat, I have these PDFs of these school calendars that I need to import into my Google Calendar.
• 16:38
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It literally had me upload the PDF.
• 16:40
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It was able to pull all of the dates, put it into the right format.
• 16:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I was able to save it to my computer and then upload it to my Google calendar.
• 16:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So that's a task that would have taken me literally probably an hour, an hour and a half to do, and I was able to do it in minutes.
• 16:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So, like to me, that is such a success story and that is like that's why we need to learn what it's capable of instead of just being scared.
• 17:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Dang didn't.
• 17:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I didn't realize I could do that.
• 17:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's in the like the uh, yeah, the ics format or something.
• 17:12
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, what calendar can read?
• 17:14
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, yeah, that's brilliant.
• 17:17
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): That's kind of it's.
• 17:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think there's this interesting gap between sort of playing around with the tools and kind of like oh yeah, this is cool, I can write poems, and then spending a little bit more time on that learning journey until you get to the slightly more complicated but really powerful use cases.
• 17:40
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Are there any examples of other teachers, who aren't necessarily power users, that have surfaced that you're just like, oh, I like like, that's just someone who kind of figured something out for themselves that maybe that you wouldn't have necessarily expected.
• 17:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I'm trying to think, you know we don't.
• 17:58
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We haven't really, in my particular building, there hasn't been a lot of conversation about AI.
• 18:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that I've been fortunate one because I'm asking to go to these different workshops because I want to increase my own personal knowledge, so I've been able to hear from other teachers about things that they're doing using AI different.
• 18:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know websites, but you know, sometimes it can get overwhelming, and I think that is one of the concerns with education, right?
• 18:26
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Is there's so many tools, there's so many products, and so sometimes, as teachers, like, we shut down because it's like another tool, another product, it's, it's just going to be something else for me to learn.
• 18:37
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so, again, trying to shift the mindset of like, yes, initially it is something for you to learn, but on the back end, it's going to save you a lot of time and trouble.
• 18:48
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So we've talked about, we have talked about like, even simple stuff, like using LLMs for, like, parent communication is like a big one, right, like running things through and like, okay, please make this a little less snarky, or, you know, take my upset tone out of this message.
• 19:05
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So those types of things are definitely creating, you know, lesson plans are always, you know pretty straightforward or presentations.
• 19:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Those are probably the basic ways.
• 19:16
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I don't know that.
• 19:16
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I've heard anything like super, like extreme that any teachers in the building are using, but it's more kind of the simple things as people are starting to get on board and understand the benefits of using AI help bring schools onto the learning journey by seeding them with folks like you, educators, who are not necessarily.
• 19:51
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, I don't know if you would call yourself an AI expert or not.
• 19:53
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I don't think of myself as an AI expert, but I think you're someone who's a sort of informed user who is, like you know, far enough along the learning journey to know bring others along with you, um, and but what?
• 20:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): What I'm hearing from you is that it's there just isn't the time or like headspace for people to really lean in, or maybe even a little bit of hesitancy, like and you're really busy.
• 20:19
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Your job isn't to just go and train your, your peers, to use AI.
• 20:24
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): What do you think is standing in the way of like?
• 20:29
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, have you had conversations with your peers about AI?
• 20:31
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Are they like against it because of cheating, or are they just sort of not curious, like what's?
• 20:38
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): What do you think is standing in the way between you and sort of like bringing sort of maybe like half of your school to sort of where you are, which is like really curious and experimenting?
• 20:46
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, experimenting with the tools, trying to figure out how they could use them?
• 20:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, I mean, I think like sometimes, like being the computer science person, like they think that like all that stuff just belongs to me, like even computer science, right.
• 21:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So there are benefits to integrating computer science even into other core subjects.
• 21:06
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But a lot of people I think that they think that there's like such an expertise required to do these things that they're not capable of it, which is hilarious.
• 21:17
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I mean, I do not have a computer science background at all, actually, yeah, my first degree was in biology and then I was an elementary education teacher for years, before taking some time off to raise my kids, and so I came back to and I was doing some substitute teaching and I ended up in the middle school and I was like, oh, I kind of like the schedule over here, and so at the time the only position that was available was computer science.
• 21:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So first I said, well, I'll sub, you know, in the class until you find somebody.
• 21:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then I said, well, why not?
• 21:48
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Why won't I just take the job full time?
• 21:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: My dad is actually a computer scientist by trade, which is pretty funny, and my son actually studies computer science.
• 21:56
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: He's out of trade high school.
• 21:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But yeah, I didn't have, I didn't have the background knowledge.
• 22:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I don't even think I took computer science classes in college, so but I just kind of trusted my ability to be able to learn new things right, and so those first couple of years was me learning right with my students.
• 22:13
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So those the first couple of years, like every grade level did the same thing, and so I would make sure that I kind of had mastered that one curriculum and then the next year I would introduce a new one and I'd learn that with my students and then I got to a point where I felt very pretty comfortable.
• 22:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I think that a lot of it is that like teachers is feeling like it's outside of their comfort zone or it doesn't kind of fit in with what they're, what they're doing.
• 22:39
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And as a computer science teacher, being the only one here at my school, it's definitely a silo right.
• 22:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I'm the only computer science teacher and largely nobody knows what I do.
• 22:51
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, and so you know my administration, like they'll see glimpses of things.
• 22:58
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like you know presentations that I'm doing.
• 23:00
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know different places They'll see it on, like LinkedIn, or you know I have a TikTok channel where I'll post videos and but it's like it's still very like, like that's your thing.
• 23:13
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know what I mean.
• 23:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like ELA, math science, people are like, ok, I could figure it out.
• 23:18
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But everybody feels like computer science is such a technical thing that there's no way that they could do it or they could get it.
• 23:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I think that that's largely the barrier, is people having the understanding.
• 23:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I'm part of the Computer Science Teachers Association, also known as CSTA, and we like to say that every teacher is a computer science teacher.
• 23:37
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Right, but it's just getting that buy-in, and I think that is amplified more with AI.
• 23:44
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: They feel like it's such a technical thing that they don't understand, that they can't do, and so it would just be needing to like show and model.
• 23:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But again, I think sometimes my administration doesn't know all the things that I'm doing with AI, so it's hard to like ask me to do things because they don't know that I'm capable of them.
• 24:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I guess is the best way to say it.
• 24:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like you know, people are flying around the country to go and present as an expert at these like huge conferences, and your school maybe doesn't even realize what they have, you know, right in their building, and I suspect that might be the case in a lot of schools.
• 24:26
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Right, there's like that one teacher that you know the administration just doesn't realize could be like an amazing, you know, mentor, yeah, but you can't sort of force.
• 24:34
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, I think this is what you mentioned, this thing about ed tech, which what I'm hearing is like there's just a little bit of heartburn from so many technologies that have been sort of like thrown into schools.
• 24:43
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): For me it was the smart boards and I still remember my spanish teacher, like you know, pushing through it.
• 24:49
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): She was so frustrated and she would actually complain.
• 24:51
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): She was like I'm supposed to use a smart board, like, okay, class, let's use a stupid smart board.
• 24:56
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I could be using the chalkboard, um, and I guess your job is interesting because you're not necessarily, like the, the proponent of ai.
• 25:04
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're not here to say everybody needs to be using ai.
• 25:06
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're actually.
• 25:06
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You talked about responsible use.
• 25:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You talked about um, you know, understanding the technology.
• 25:11
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Do you think about where school, like the future of education, like where school needs to go, what things need to change, and maybe just focus on your school, like, what do you think needs to change to for us to get to a place where more of your peers are able to understand and figure out how to integrate you?
• 25:35
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, maybe it's not ai, but even just computer science, which isn't something we've talked about so much.
• 25:39
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, computational thinking is not just a computer science thing.
• 25:42
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Uh, this is something that we can integrate into math, into into science and social studies and english, right.
• 25:48
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, but yeah, what is the barrier that that we need to break through?
• 25:52
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And like, how do we, how do we do it?
• 25:55
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, I think that you know.
• 25:58
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that, from a legislative level, you know it's important.
• 26:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that when people are told that they need to do something, they're definitely more likely to do that.
• 26:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I also feel like you know statistics, like people, people like data, they like numbers, no-transcript.
• 26:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think it's administrators being trained and, again, you know the mindset.
• 26:39
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know most administrators, hopefully, are former teachers, so it's still that same mindset of being pushed out of the comfort zone and I think that is probably what sets me apart and the reason why I've been so successful in the things that I've been doing, even outside of the classroom, is because, yeah, I'm terrified, but I'm constantly pushing myself beyond my level, right.
• 27:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So every time I feel like, ok, I'm comfortable with something, I'm like, ok, what's next?
• 27:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Right.
• 27:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I think that there needs to be a shift in mindset of that too as educators, as we can't just feel like we've gotten comfortable with where we are and with our subject matter.
• 27:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: How can we push the envelope, how can we move to the next level?
• 27:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I think for many people, like you know, that's the difference, and so I think it would take somebody saying like, ok, we have to do this.
• 27:31
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I think it would take somebody saying like OK, we have to do this.
• 27:33
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I don't know that a lot of educators are just going to volunteer and say, oh yeah, like, totally Like, I'm going to start doing computer science in my classroom because they're so, and I don't think it's a knock.
• 27:48
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that they're so focused on their subject area and how every educator thinks that their subject area is the most important one, right?
• 27:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So by sometimes you feel like if I start trying to do something else, it's going to take away from what I'm focusing on, when really we're just trying to, like, make them work together, because it's a more authentic learning experience when it's integrated like that.
• 28:09
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, I mean there has to be some incentive, right, and so like you can create incentives in the form of like requirements, which is actually really important.
• 28:16
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's not just like, oh, this is really cool because teachers are busy and they don't necessarily have the time to go and totally overhaul their curriculum, but that's it.
• 28:26
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So the stats about English scores and scores outside of computer science actually going up as kids are learning CS, I guess it makes sense because a lot of I mean a lot of what we talk about at AIEDU is the importance of what we call like the leveraging, the human advantage.
• 28:44
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, durable skills, critical thinking, problem solving, perseverance, and computer science is sort of it's almost like the embodiment of like problem solving, iteration.
• 28:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're sort of like the practice of computer science is almost constantly troubleshooting, debugging, um, iterating, and I could totally see how those skills are transferable.
• 29:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, but it is.
• 29:10
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's interesting because cs.
• 29:12
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I didn't even have a cs class when I was in high school, I think when aidu was founded.
• 29:19
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Cs was really a track like you talked about a silo, and it was this sort of like track that some kids are going to get on um, you know the students will opt into the like the ap computer science class and that's because they want to go and get a job in computer science.
• 29:34
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And you're describing CS so every student is getting it.
• 29:40
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So really this is more like math, where I use math in the abstract day to day but I'm not writing out functions, I'm not using geometry in the literal sense.
• 29:52
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But if someone asked me like is math important?
• 29:54
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I would say of course I.
• 29:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): They're just like intangibles that I'm sure that I developed by learning math and I'm kind of seeing that in the way that you're describing cs.
• 30:03
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, how the kids feel about, I mean, are there like, have you seen kids kind of adopt an identity around technology that maybe wouldn't have happened if they didn't get the chance to go into that CS class?
• 30:19
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, I mean, I think in a few ways.
• 30:21
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think definitely on the digital citizenship side for sure, like I've heard students you know, kind of call each other out like OK, you're not being a responsible digital citizen if you do that.
• 30:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So that's always like a proud, like a proud moment when I like, oh yes, you know they actually are listening to me, but yeah, so one of the things that I really try to do in my classroom to make CS like tangible and real to them is real world application and project based learning, right.
• 30:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So every class period they are hands-on, they're creating a project, and so we talk a lot about how can we merge computer science, how can we merge AI with things that you're already interested in.
• 31:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So, for instance, with my eighth graders, when we're talking about AI, it's like what is a real-world problem that AI could help solve?
• 31:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so we go through a whole process of them thinking through what's I'm like?
• 31:15
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Whatever you care about, I'm like, if you care about makeup, what's the problem with makeup?
• 31:19
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know it's like well, sometimes you know you don't know what makeup matches your skin tone.
• 31:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Okay, how could AI help solve that problem?
• 31:26
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I'm constantly trying to get them to look at it from the lens of like, not just a computer, but what is something you care about, what is a real issue in the world, and how can we use computer science or AI to help improve things, help make somebody's lives better?
• 31:42
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Because that's what's important and that's something that I drill into them a lot.
• 31:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's like we're not just coding for coding sake, to make cool things.
• 31:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We want to learn how we can use these tools to make people's lives better.
• 31:55
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And you know, I definitely could not finish this without talking about the equity perspective, and I think that is what initially kind of really got me into the whole AI conversation was I watched Coded Bias and it like blew my whole world apart.
• 32:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Right, so I was already doing work with equity and computer science, but hadn't really gotten into it from like an AI facial recognition standpoint.
• 32:23
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But after watching Coded Bias and learning more about that, I was like, oh my gosh.
• 32:27
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I teach at a Title I school, so the majority of my, a large number of our students receive free or reduced lunch.
• 32:34
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: The majority of our students here are black or brown, and so these are people whose lives are directly being impacted by decisions that are being made with these companies that are rolling out AI.
• 32:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I tell my students I don't want them just to be users of these, of this, the devices and this technology.
• 32:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I want them to understand.
• 32:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I want them to understand the real world implications.
• 33:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So we talk about how, you know, ai is used in the justice system to determine who gets bail Right, and so when you have a certain population of people that are disproportionately affected by that, like you need to know that that's important, of people that are disproportionately affected by that, like you need to know that that's important.
• 33:17
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so we actually, with some of my older students, we actually have watch coded bias and we've had conversations you know about.
• 33:22
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, some places are using facial recognition.
• 33:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: The police are using it to identify suspects.
• 33:27
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Well, if we know that AI facial recognition doesn't work as well, the darker your skin is, that's a huge problem.
• 33:36
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So, again, trying to pull in these real world conversation, like I feel like sometimes I feel like a mad woman because I'm trying to accomplish so much in a semester but it all feels so important to me and I care so much about my students that like how could I not try to share all of this with them and make sure that they understand.
• 33:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's like, yes, this class is computer science, but it's like so much more than computer science class.
• 33:59
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, and encoded bias.
• 34:01
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): For our audience is this MIT researcher, joy Bulumwini, and she's looking at, I think, a lot of different AI systems, but the one that really stood out is the fact that facial recognition systems can misidentify women, people with darker skin tones, as you've said.
• 34:15
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, and then there's also use cases you mentioned policing, like in housing, um, like credit, uh applications, and I think what's so fascinating about?
• 34:27
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So, first of all, joy was way ahead of the curve right, this is pre-chat gbt when ai was basically invisible, like very few people were really talking about AI, and yet these tools were all over society, like in sort of very subtle, insidious ways affecting people's lives.
• 34:44
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's hard to have agency over something like that if you're not even aware that it's happening.
• 34:48
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): How do you deal with, I mean, whenever I get really into the weeds about, you know, these algorithms, systems, uh, like welfare, uh, determination is another like really problematic example.
• 35:00
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, it frustrates me and I'm even, you know, from a point of privilege.
• 35:06
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, my parents are Lebanese, but I'm white presenting.
• 35:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So, like I, you know, I think the facial recognition probably works quite well on my face.
• 35:12
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like I, you know, I think the facial recognition probably works quite well, on my face, I can imagine it being extremely like dispiriting, because you, you know you can learn about these systems and but without sort of just making them feel like depressed and, you know, afraid, because that seems like a natural reaction to like learning about what's what's happening under their feet.
• 35:44
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, I know I definitely feel depressed and afraid.
• 35:47
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Sometimes I have to just turn the news off.
• 35:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, I think I try to use it to inspire my students and encourage them that it's important for them to be in you know, to quote Hamilton to be in the room where it happens, right.
• 36:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So no matter what industry.
• 36:05
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So we make the connection between, okay, what do you want to do when you grow up?
• 36:09
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And you know, no matter what they say, okay, well, how does computer science tie into that, so that they're able to see that, like, no matter what they're going to be doing, computer science is going to be a part of that.
• 36:19
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I just encourage them to make sure again that they're they're not just users, but they're decision makers, no matter what they're doing.
• 36:27
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I want you, I want you to be empowered, I want you to be a decision maker, I want you to not just let things happen to you.
• 36:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so that's kind of how I frame the conversation just trying to empower them more so than scare them.
• 36:42
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I mean so far, so good.
• 36:44
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I don't know that.
• 36:45
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know anybody has come and seemed terrified.
• 36:51
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I actually did have one of my returning.
• 36:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: She's going to be an eighth grader this year where we'll be doing AI, and she was asking me my thoughts on, you know, ethical AI use.
• 36:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And she was, like can we have a classroom debate on ethical AI use?
• 37:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I said absolutely.
• 37:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I'm super excited.
• 37:05
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I told her.
• 37:06
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I said, yeah, we can work together to put a lesson where we get to do that.
• 37:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But that's the excitement for me is like seeing my students, like wanting to even take their, their knowledge further than what I'm giving them and like you know, how can we, how can we apply this?
• 37:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so and that's one of the things recently that I've got it gotten into presenting on to is you know AI?
• 37:27
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And like how can we balance using it but also making sure that we're cognizant of the privacy concerns?
• 37:34
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And like where do we draw the line?
• 37:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I recently co-presented on that at the CSTA National Conference and I'm going to be doing a virtual version in the coming months.
• 37:45
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But I'm excited about continuing those conversations because that's what it's about, right?
• 37:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's again, it's not that like right, but it's just like how far are we willing to go before we say it's too much?
• 37:56
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And just again, an education like educating, educating, educating people on what's happening and you know how we can all play our part.
• 38:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You weren't just a computer science nerd from a young age, because I think sometimes it's easy for some.
• 38:12
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's like you know the, uh, you know youtube has all these like alpha male influencers who are like jacked and they're like giving advice about dating and they're like, well, you just need to be confident and just like well, yeah, sure, but you're also like ripped and you know, like, uh, I it's.
• 38:27
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But it's very different to have someone who, like you, study biology, which is, which is it's not a cakewalk, but it's not there's.
• 38:35
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I assume you didn't take any CS when you were studying biology, um, and so I think there's a, there's a if I can do it, you can do it Credibility that you, that you bring to to that with your kids.
• 38:47
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, you mentioned something that like there's no right or wrong.
• 38:50
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I like this because I think it's we talked about giving kids agency.
• 38:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think one of the challenging things that people in general have, but I think also educators, the challenge of computer science is it's you're constantly making mistakes and iterating and troubleshooting.
• 39:04
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think teachers like to be right.
• 39:06
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): They'd like to know what the right answer is.
• 39:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Uh, that's kind of their job, right?
• 39:09
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's like I'm supposed to know the answer so I can tell my kids what's what the correct answer is.
• 39:13
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're describing AI ethics as actually a place where there isn't necessarily, like a default right or wrong answer.
• 39:23
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Do you feel like that creates just like makes it easier for kids to kind of dip their toes in, where they're not necessarily afraid of like having the right answer, and so they're able to kind of like wade in and kind of develop an opinion?
• 39:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, and it's not just our AI conversations.
• 39:38
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I mean, that's my whole classroom is hey, like, and I tell them all the time, like we have a whole three before me where, so that my classroom is set up for the students to work collaboratively.
• 39:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: They're in groups of four because I want them to work through issues before they even come to me, and I tell them all that I'm like, a lot of times you guys may get to the solution, somebody in your group may get to the solution before I even can.
• 40:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I work very hard to and even in all the presenting I do, I'm not presenting because I'm the expert, right, I'm just presenting because I'm the facilitator of this conversation, and that's how I try to approach my classroom in general as, like, the moderator, the facilitator of conversations.
• 40:19
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But yeah, my students I mean there's so many of them, they're so smart and you know, I definitely have no problem admitting like they're like oh, this is wrong or oh, okay, you're right.
• 40:29
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yep, thanks for pointing that out.
• 40:31
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I appreciate you.
• 40:32
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know we have a reward system.
• 40:33
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: They get rewarded for it, so I try.
• 40:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that that speaks a lot to culture, though, and you know, you have to be confident enough in yourself to be okay with making mistakes and I am definitely okay with making mistakes.
• 40:47
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, technology goes wrong and it's just like you know.
• 40:52
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think it's important.
• 40:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Educators should always be modeling for our students.
• 40:56
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's one thing for us to tell them you should, you know, do this, but it's another thing for us to model.
• 41:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So if I'm modeling for them like oops, I got that wrong, but the world is not ending, it's okay, then I feel like they're more likely to internalize that message for themselves versus me just telling them that but presenting another way.
• 41:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I was thinking about even when we were kicking off this podcast and and your sound wasn't working.
• 41:22
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You were so like Zen, you're like, oh, yeah, it sounded working, like you just sort of like trying it out.
• 41:27
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And well, I've had other guests where it's just like, oh, they're freaking out and it's like I need to restart my computer and it's like it's a good thing, because we kind of assume that this generation is, you know, gen Z, gen Alpha, are, you know, tech natives.
• 41:45
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But what?
• 41:47
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I heard, one anecdote from a teacher.
• 41:49
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I'm curious if you've seen something similar where, um, you know, when we were growing up with computers, it often was just broken, like we were constantly troubleshooting.
• 41:58
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I remember, like the first time I got an ipod and I spent like eight hours, you know, like late into the night with my dad trying to figure out how to get the it was like firewire to work.
• 42:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It just didn't work and we had to like do all this stuff?
• 42:09
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, and now technology just works like most of the time it just works.
• 42:12
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You just turn on the computer or you go into chrome.
• 42:14
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And so my teacher was describing if a student can't figure out how to like log into chrome for to like, uh, their google suite um they just like don't know what to do.
• 42:23
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): it's like the, the practice of troubleshooting, like do you do you see that and do you find that you actually have to because you talk about modeling sort of this like best practice of like just troubleshooting in a way?
• 42:35
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): That's you know, that's also sort of a mental state, like yeah, does that story?
• 42:40
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Have you seen something similar to that?
• 42:42
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like, are kids like less apt for troubleshooting than people might expect?
• 42:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And you know, even with my own kids, and so, like my son in particular, you know he will ask me questions and I'm trying to get better because I think sometimes as adults, like we just kind of, and as teachers, we just kind of want to like give the answer so we can keep going, and I'm trying to like force myself to slow down a little bit and like give them that opportunity, like give them that opportunity.
• 43:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So, like you know he'll, he'll ask me a question and I'm like, well, what do you think?
• 43:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: How do you think you should do it, or what setting do you think it should be?
• 43:17
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then he just goes and does it and so, like I actually never help him, but it's something just in him to ask the question every time.
• 43:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so the same thing with the students, like trying to get them to again go to each other.
• 43:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: That three before me so go to each other, that three before me so go to each other, because then they're having an opportunity to practice that with each other before they come to me.
• 43:39
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then, if they come to me, it's like, okay, well, you know, what can we try?
• 43:42
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But yeah, they are very like when something think about.
• 43:47
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It has to do with the model of education.
• 43:51
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: There's been so much focus on getting to the right answer, right Testing is all about getting the right answer and we've lost there's not as much focus on the process of getting there, the journey, and so one of the ways that I model that in my classroom is so, yes, they have projects and they have rubrics for how their projects are graded, but once they submit a project, I give them feedback and I give it back to them and then they can go take that feedback and apply and they can edit their projects and resubmit, because I want to reward them for the journey.
• 44:29
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Right, because my goal is for them to learn Right, it's not about like just a number.
• 44:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so it's interesting because you have the students that I mean.
• 44:38
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Man, if they lost one point, they are going back in there and they are making that adjustment.
• 44:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But I'm always surprised at how many students, particularly like we do, like digital citizenship, like our, we have like wrap-ups to the lesson, but they can go in and edit their answers and so many kids are like nope, I'm good with that grade, you know, because it's like that's all that they're focused on is just the grade and like, well, the grade is acceptable, not the, the learning of wow, wow, why did I miss that question?
• 45:10
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Let me go back in.
• 45:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I always love the students that are like, no, no, it marked it as wrong.
• 45:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But I know, I know this is the right answer.
• 45:16
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I'm like, well, maybe it is, and let's look at it.
• 45:18
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then I'm like, okay, well, this is saying this.
• 45:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then they're like, oh, that's not the right answer, and I love that.
• 45:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I love that because that's showing me that they care about the journey, they care about the actual knowledge versus just the grade, and I feel like that's what education should be.
• 45:34
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But it's so hard and it feels so overwhelming sometimes when we think about having to make changes on a systemic level and like overhaul everything.
• 45:45
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So that's probably the answer that I don't have is like, how do we do that?
• 45:52
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, but, like in the workplace, very rarely do you just get one shot.
• 45:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, everything is like oh, let me send you a draft and then your boss gives you some feedback and you're like your client gives you feedback or your customer gives you feedback and then you're sort of iterating on it.
• 46:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, um, in fact, I think the only time I've really ever taken a test was like maybe in, like an application, like maybe sometimes there's like a, there's a test during the interview process, but you don't really get tested at work.
• 46:22
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You almost always are iterating.
• 46:23
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, but like type A personalities struggle with that and I'm like a type A, you know, in remission, but it's, you know, you want to get everything right the first time.
• 46:33
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Remission, but it's, you know, you want to get everything right the first time.
• 46:36
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I think it's so funny that, like you said, like oh, you were so Zen because, like inside I'm like, oh my gosh, like you know what's happening, I actually got a tattoo and it says Zen on it, because I'm like reminding myself that I need to stay in that place.
• 46:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But yeah, for type A people and you know, I worked in corporate, you know, before I moved into education and I just felt like it was such a different model and so, even once getting into education and once I started presenting, like you know, the best advice somebody ever told me was that a presentation is just a conversation.
• 47:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Right, because I wanted to come, I wanted to stand in front of the room, I wanted to have a mastery over everything, I didn't want to make any mistakes, stumble over any words and just be perfect and just realizing like one.
• 47:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: That's not relatable to a lot of people, because then they feel like they can't do what you do, right, it's not authentic and it's not sustainable and it put a lot of stress on myself.
• 47:32
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so when, yeah, when she told me that like presenting is just a conversation, like it, I don't know why it was so simple, but it just changed everything for me.
• 47:40
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so now, like I'm so much more relaxed and you know, like when I'm presenting, like I just enjoy myself and enjoy engaging with people, and so I think, yeah, it's just, I don't know, it's just a big difference in mindset, a shift in mindset.
• 47:53
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, it's just, I don't know it's just a big difference in mindset, a shift in mindset.
• 47:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, it's funny because I never actually thought of it like that.
• 47:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But people ask like, oh, you seem, you always seem so relaxed.
• 48:02
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): They ask oh, are you nervous before a talk?
• 48:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And I usually have not, but it's.
• 48:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I kind of have a flaw, which is I'm really bad at memorizing like a talk track.
• 48:12
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): In fact I'm.
• 48:13
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I was doing recording like the intro to our YouTube channel and I probably sent like 30 minutes of just like me making mistakes.
• 48:22
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Oh, let me try that again.
• 48:23
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And I just like I'm really bad at memorizing and like rehearsing and sort of like like I'd be a horrible actor.
• 48:28
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I'd probably be very good at improv, but it'd be really bad actor.
• 48:31
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So my secret is, yeah, I kind of just go and riff when I present and so it feels like I'm just having a conversation with the crowd.
• 48:38
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I never like sort of made that connection of like that's kind of why I had this conversational style and I think people actually, I think people gravitate to that.
• 48:46
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think there's like an authenticity that comes with not being perfect, um, not necessarily getting every single point.
• 48:54
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, I went in.
• 48:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I want to transition into this question that I've been obsessed with?
• 49:01
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I'm sure you have been.
• 49:02
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): If not obsessed with it, you have to be thinking about it.
• 49:06
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So how long have you been teaching computer science?
• 49:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I think this is my seventh year.
• 49:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I'm entering into my seventh year.
• 49:17
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Okay, so it's 2025.
• 49:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So it's like 2018, uh, roughly um 2018.
• 49:25
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): This is, like you know, computer science was at a period like in a total heyday, like people were making crazy amounts of money, like all the best jobs, all the companies that were growing the fastest Google, microsoft, facebook, airbnb, et cetera these are all places where, you know, to really advance you had to have computer science, and I think computer science had this sort of this reputation as sort of like a vocational track where it's like go and major in cs, get on the cs pathway and you'll get one of these amazing jobs.
• 50:01
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, and and today there's just, I think, a lot of uncertainties.
• 50:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): We're seeing, you know, wildly high unemployment rates among college grads with cs degrees.
• 50:14
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And then there's lots of companies that and I don't know if they're being you know, there's a lot of hype, so it's hard to really sort of read through the I'm not gonna call it misinformation, but read through like the, the, the strategy that these companies might be having.
• 50:29
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Uh, but they're laying off like lots of people.
• 50:30
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): They're laying off engineers and they're saying, oh well, we're using ai.
• 50:33
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, and so I've I've seen like people that are saying, oh well, kids don't need to learn computer science anymore.
• 50:40
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Ai is just going to do all the coding.
• 50:41
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Before I react to that because I want to sort of give you my take, but maybe I'm sure this has come up with you Like how do you respond to a parent or a student who's like, well, microsoft just laid off you know a few thousand engineers.
• 50:56
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like why do I really need to be learning CS if the AI is going to be doing it for me?
• 51:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, I think I always start with again those skills, right.
• 51:07
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So computer science is the classroom, it's the vehicle through which I'm teaching these skills and these thought processes, and so I mean I think it's important just for that standpoint, right, and like, just like you were too, you were using, you know, the whole math thing.
• 51:25
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like we have calculators, we have smartphones, but like we still need to, we still need to know math.
• 51:31
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so you know, and I think, from a creative standpoint, I think it's important for students to know how to create in this manner.
• 51:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, yes, ai is replacing a lot of things, but I still push that I like to use AI as a tool and not an end-all, be-all.
• 51:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then I think too that there, you know, we know that there are issues with AI sometimes and hallucinations and some of the things.
• 52:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So students still need the skill set of being able to think critically about the information that is being generated by AI, to actually say, okay, does this make sense in the context of you know how I'm using it?
• 52:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I'm not quite there yet where I'm just like, oh yeah, let's just pass everything over.
• 52:19
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that you know, maybe there's basic level, like what is happening when I do this?
• 52:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Why do I need to you know?
• 52:44
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: the way that I see you just used that as an interruption.
• 52:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: If, before you leave today, you could stop by the office and make sure your contact information is updated, I would appreciate it.
• 52:52
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Thank you so much.
• 52:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Life of a teacher.
• 52:54
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Amazing.
• 52:54
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, definitely keeping that in.
• 53:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Amazing, yeah, about how companies literally have people who you know psychologists that know about addictive design and how to keep users on their devices longer, like.
• 53:28
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So again I feel like again I'm trying to cover so much, but I just I want my students to understand that it's not just, yeah, like it can generate code, but there's so much more that you need to think about when we think about coding and AI and all of that, and so I still think that there's value in the education.
• 53:44
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, I mean 100 percent Right.
• 53:45
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's like the like even the one example that you had shared earlier where you were sort of challenging students to think about you know what is something you're passionate about, like how could AI or computer science help you, like, solve a problem?
• 53:59
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Makeup, you know, find the right, you know, shade of makeup.
• 54:03
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, you know you're building the muscles for entrepreneurship and you know that's what we keep hearing from ceos is like we need kids who you need, we need workers who are entrepreneurial and like proactive and problem solvers and creative thinkers.
• 54:16
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And I really can't think of any other subject where there is like that much exposure to those skills.
• 54:25
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You can build those skills in math or in english or in science, but you know they're slivers of the day, whereas computer science, almost as a vocate, almost as a project, is like you know, you're, you're basically constantly flexing those durable skills, the computational thinking skills.
• 54:41
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, so that that's been, that's been my sort of evolution is paradoxically, I think computer science is actually more important than ever before, because if ai is going to be doing all this stuff, the question is well, it's not that ai is just going to be writing code, it's also going to be writing papers, writing emails, writing memos, doing it, you know, going through spreadsheets, um.
• 55:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): So what are companies going to be looking for if we're just thinking about just the jobs?
• 55:12
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Uh, like the career aspect, um.
• 55:15
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But then you describe something else which is like being able to like having agency in the world around you, not just knowing that netflix is using ai to recommend shows, but also like should you just be watching the shows that netflix is recommending, such a powerful?
• 55:33
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Or also like should you just be on tikt?
• 55:37
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like, why are you seeing some of these crazy reels or some of these crazy TikToks?
• 56:01
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's like, yeah, or even when you're saying something and then it shows up on your.
• 56:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You look something up on the internet and then it shows up as an ad on your Facebook.
• 56:05
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: How is that working?
• 56:06
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So those are important things to know.
• 56:09
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: If you don't ever stop to think, why is that happening, then you're just like, oh, what a coincidence.
• 56:17
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But then you're like, oh, no, there's data and they're selling data and you know, and there's all these different components.
• 56:21
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I just think it makes for a more educated society and it's like you know, when you, when you know better, like you should do better.
• 56:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it should inform the decisions that you're making.
• 56:33
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I also think there's just a human aspect that AI won't replicate right, the basic humanity.
• 56:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so I mean, I would hate to live in an AI world where that humanity is lost, because humanity is such a beautiful thing and that's not something that would be replicated.
• 56:53
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I don't know what you want when I go to restaurants.
• 56:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): If it's like a sit down restaurant, like a nice restaurant, if they like pull out an iPad, I'm like I don't want to just like tap into an iPad, even though it's like by far the most efficient thing you could prepay.
• 57:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's like um, but part of why we pay money to go to a restaurant is like the experience of like having like a waiter that comes and sort of like it's like, you know, just interacting with you Um, just interacting with you, um, and there's probably a lot of example that can I ask about your, you, um, you, you.
• 57:23
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You ran a smokehouse for a couple of years.
• 57:26
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: That keeps coming up.
• 57:27
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, so I didn't run a smokeout.
• 57:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I was a co-owner of a food truck and catering company, um, and so we focused.
• 57:36
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah it was, it was Texas and North Carolina styles of barbecue.
• 57:39
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And yeah it was.
• 57:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We did that for a few years.
• 57:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It was.
• 57:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It was a good time.
• 57:45
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Do you?
• 57:46
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, do you see any parallels with?
• 57:48
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Because actually, like, for those who don't know, like running a food truck is is hard?
• 57:53
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean it is, it is.
• 57:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It is like running a restaurant but you're constantly trying to like find where where do I park it.
• 57:59
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's it is like running a restaurant but you're constantly trying to like find where do I park it.
• 58:01
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's you have like very limited space.
• 58:02
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You have to be.
• 58:03
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Every single item that you have is like you'd be super thoughtful.
• 58:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Do you find any parallels with some like the entrepreneurial skills that you were flexing running the food truck and when you're sort of like in your classroom teaching CS?
• 58:17
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: and when you're sort of like in your classroom teaching CS, yeah, I mean you have to be flexible because inevitably you're going to plan, plan, plan and something is going to change or go wrong.
• 58:25
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I think, just having that ability to pivot and not be so rigid to a plan that you can't make those adjustments in the moment adjustments in the moment I also, I mean I like to say that you know, I'm smart enough to figure things out and so you know, did I have a background in food truck running or bookings or any of that stuff?
• 58:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: No, of course not, just like I didn't have a background in computer science.
• 58:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But I trust my ability to learn and stay learning new things, which I think is important.
• 59:00
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So that is, I mean that probably the whole learning, the lifelong learning thing.
• 59:05
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: That is probably the thing that ties together all of the different things that I do.
• 59:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I just had the opportunity.
• 59:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I just wrapped up a three-month project.
• 59:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Month Project, I was the managing editor of a handbook through CS for Everyone, a mentoring program that I'd been privileged to be a part of for the last few years.
• 59:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But we put together a handbook, an 80-page handbook, and I was the managing editor.
• 59:28
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like, have I ever been a managing editor or like?
• 59:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: No, of course not, but like you know, I was like, oh, this is a great opportunity.
• 59:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So again, just that thing about being willing to, to stretch myself, push myself beyond what's comfortable, um, and try and try something new, is what, what it's all about.
• 59:47
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And part of that is just coming out of confidence in yourself.
• 59:49
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I I think a lot about what, like?
• 59:53
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Where does that confidence come from for, like know, young growing adults?
• 59:58
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, I mean, can you trace it back to a parent or a teacher in your life that, because, clearly, like you know, the one through line in your life is you kind of have this orientation to trying new things, you know, sort of pushing yourself into, um, uncomfortable spaces.
• 1:00:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, like was there.
• 1:00:21
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Can you trace it back to any, like any influential person in your life?
• 1:00:26
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Well, I will say I mean, my parents are definitely very supportive of me, always have been about, you know, whatever I wanted to do, but I think that my greatest growth in that area is probably more as an adult.
• 1:00:40
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I feel like I, in a sense, I was a bit of a late bloomer, and so I always credit the Amazon Future Engineer Program.
• 1:00:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: They are the ones I so I won the Teacher of the Year Award through them, and then I was part of Teacher of the Year Award through them, and then I was part of ended up being part of an ambassador group that they started the inaugural group.
• 1:01:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But it was really people believing in me before I believed in myself.
• 1:01:08
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So you know the people that I were working with.
• 1:01:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: They were like, hey, we're going to put you on the main stage.
• 1:01:13
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Well, I was going to a conference and they were like, you're going to represent us in the booth.
• 1:01:17
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I said, oh, no problem, I should be able to do that.
• 1:01:18
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then they said, oh, by the way, we're also going to put you on the main stage and you're going to introduce one of the keynote speakers.
• 1:01:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I was like, hmm, don't know how I feel about that, but something in me said well, if, seeing, like, ok, they believed in you, you did it.
• 1:01:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And then you moved on and you did something else.
• 1:01:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And you did something else that like kind of it was almost like a muscle I was exercising until I got to a point where I could believe in myself.
• 1:01:56
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so now, you know, when new things come, I'm like, well, everything else that I've tried, you know like I've been able to get through, so I can get through this too.
• 1:02:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so, with that being said, one of the things that I'm a big proponent of and I do presentations on this is the power of mentoring.
• 1:02:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so, because mentoring is so important in that, so I have had amazing people in my path that have mentored me, that have supported me and encouraged me along the way, and so that is something that I talk about a lot in the computer science community especially.
• 1:02:29
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I do a lot of work with increasing female representation in computer science and STEM, and a large part of that is mentoring.
• 1:02:35
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So people that look like you doing something, so you know they have, that is mentoring.
• 1:02:37
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So people that look like you doing something, so you know they have that saying if you can see it, you can be it and then I do a Girls who Code coding club that I facilitate here at my school and that's a big part of what we do with the girls is just talking to them about that and giving them opportunities to see people in the field and talk to them.
• 1:02:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So that's so critical.
• 1:02:59
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that we need community.
• 1:03:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know that's how I got involved with CSTA, because I didn't have as a CS teacher.
• 1:03:07
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: A lot of computer science teachers are in that silo where there's not others at their school or in their district.
• 1:03:11
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's so important to find that community of educators that you can connect with and you guys can kind of support each other through.
• 1:03:19
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So that's been a very big part for me is my community, and so I'm always looking for opportunities to expand that community and that's actually how we connected Alex right.
• 1:03:31
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I think that all of my journey, all of my accomplishments, all of the amazing opportunities that I've had have been because of the community and the networking and the relationships with people, relationships and everything.
• 1:03:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And I think that is another thing that's changing in society.
• 1:03:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Now it's less about you know your resume or your accolades or your grades, it's more about the connections and the relationships, and so I try to get my kids and my students to understand that, like you have to be.
• 1:04:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And the problem is, though, is the reliance on technology is almost in opposition to that.
• 1:04:10
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Because they're on devices, they're not having those personal interactions and connections as much.
• 1:04:15
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So getting them to understand the value of putting the devices down, being face-to-face and interacting with people, yeah.
• 1:04:25
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, it's a double-edged sword because on the one hand you know relationships can be a way of breaking through.
• 1:04:33
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know you look at somebody's resume.
• 1:04:35
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): it's really hard to get a sense of that person just from like the bullets on the page yeah um, you sit down and have a conversation with somebody, like it's a chance for someone to really get to know you, um, but it also means that you're you're limited to the, the networks that that exist, and I think what's so important with what you're describing with csta is, like you breaking out of some of the traditional confines of tech, which is really hard.
• 1:05:03
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, I'm in Silicon Valley, I'm in San Francisco, but you go to Silicon Valley and it is just, it's non-diverse, it's a bunch of white guys usually.
• 1:05:13
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I think there's like a stat that, like, I think less than 1% of venture capitalists are black and I think it's even smaller to like for, like, black women.
• 1:05:23
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Wow.
• 1:05:23
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And so if you're a black woman founder, you are almost never pitching somebody with your lived experience, and that can be really frustrating and it is really frustrating.
• 1:05:36
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But I mean, the only solution, right, is like like, how do we bring more people in to, not necessarily VC, but like technology and like these fields?
• 1:05:44
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And you know, all the programs and curriculum in the world won't be a substitute for what you're describing right, like staying with the learning, because they're around other people that are sort of like giving them that energy, that inspiration, um, so thank you for what you're doing.
• 1:06:07
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, I'm curious about what to that.
• 1:06:09
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, like this may be a great way for us to even close, you know, because at aidu we're obsessed with this how do we build, how do we make AI readiness something that really sticks with a district?
• 1:06:21
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And what we found is just having curriculum, just having, you know, pd by itself is definitely not enough.
• 1:06:27
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, people will come to the PD, even if the curriculum is amazing.
• 1:06:30
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): They're back into their life, they're back into their routine.
• 1:06:34
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You have to have community and I'm curious, like, like, as someone who maybe is, you know, still in the process of trying to figure out how to build your own community in your own school, but someone who's seen and connected with communities across the country, like what works?
• 1:06:50
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Is it like professional learning cohorts?
• 1:06:52
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Is it, you know?
• 1:06:53
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Does do like online communities?
• 1:06:55
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Fill that gap.
• 1:06:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like, like, what should we be giving?
• 1:06:58
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Be me advice.
• 1:06:59
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): This is your chance to tell us what to do.
• 1:07:02
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, it's like the never ending question.
• 1:07:04
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I was participating in a focus group through the Friday Institute at NC State and those were the conversations is like, how do we do this?
• 1:07:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I do think that, like professional learning communities are great.
• 1:07:16
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I feel like so much of my personal growth has come through that area, so I think that that that that that really is a great opportunity.
• 1:07:25
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I saw you guys have, like your, your fellowship that you're offering, like I think those are great opportunities too because I don't know, it's something about a fellowship that to me, makes things a little bit more manageable when I'm like in a group with people like, and we're all trying to like figure out that thing together.
• 1:07:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I was part of the CSTA Impact Fellowship, the fifth cohort, and I mean I learned so much and had so much professional growth through that.
• 1:07:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know I had opportunity to deliver my flash talk on the main stage at CSTA National Conference in Las Vegas, which was crazy, right, but that opportunity came through that.
• 1:08:06
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So, having you know we had mentors in that, in that group and, again, having people to kind of that have maybe reached a certain level, reaching back for others to help them get there, and I think that, like those fellowships are a really great way, the professional learning communities are a really great way and and it's just I mean, it really is just an education thing, right the people that get it, trying to pull the people that don't along alongside.
• 1:08:36
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But it's hard because teachers are busy.
• 1:08:37
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, educators are busy.
• 1:08:39
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's the idea of, like you know, three months of summer vacation is such a misnomer.
• 1:08:44
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): It's like it's not three months well no, it's two months.
• 1:08:48
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, we got june and july off and that's it.
• 1:08:51
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so, yeah, it's two months.
• 1:08:52
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But you know, and but see, this is where it gets into this whole conversation about systemic change, because part of the issue too is like teacher pay is horrible.
• 1:09:03
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I mean, my state was like in the bottom 10 out of all 50 states, like you know.
• 1:09:09
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So there is just it's it's so many angles.
• 1:09:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that we have to hit it to make real impact, and that's the part sometimes to me that feels a little bit overwhelming is like, yeah, we need teachers to do real impact, and that's the part sometimes to me that feels a little bit overwhelming.
• 1:09:21
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's like, yeah, we need teachers to do more things, but when they're already stretched thin, you know they're already not getting paid enough.
• 1:09:28
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So, like, how do we?
• 1:09:29
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I feel like it has to all kind of work together.
• 1:09:34
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Well, this is the hard thing about doing work in education is it's so multi-dimensional.
• 1:09:42
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): That is that a school faces, and you're, like you know, I was like talking to somebody at dc public schools and you know we're talking about like the future of work and ai, and at one point they were just like you know, we have like almost like a 30 or 40 percent, uh, absenteeism problem, like until we solve that, and then, and then why is there 30 or 40 percent absenteeism problem?
• 1:10:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Well, yes, part of it is like learning needs to be more meaningful and engaging and connected to like what's relevant to students.
• 1:10:11
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, a lot of students are like living in, like you know, abject poverty.
• 1:10:15
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, um, even in the district of columbia, which is one of, like the richest parts of the country, you know abject poverty.
• 1:10:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yep, even in the District of Columbia, which is one of, like the richest parts of the country.
• 1:10:19
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You know, you don't have to go too far to Anacostia to be around like people who are literally, literally just barely making ends meet, not sure where their next meal is coming from, and, as an educator like you actually literally cannot solve those problems by yourself.
• 1:10:36
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And like there's a broader question of like what's the role of policy and all this Um.
• 1:10:40
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But I feel like the only way that the way that I stay grounded is by surrounding myself with folks like you, who are like finding their place in the problem, set to try to push things forward and like creating, and like doing that with joy as opposed to just with like throwing your arms up in the air.
• 1:11:03
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, is there?
• 1:11:06
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, oh yeah, no, feel free to respond to that.
• 1:11:09
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I just yeah, no, and I think yeah because you know, even when we we have the conversation about ai, like we have to keep in mind, you know, that there is a population of people that don't even have internet, and so, you know, or I have students and it's like, well, how can I do this if all I have at home is a phone, you know?
• 1:11:25
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And so then we have this divide between you know, we have AI and we have all this technology, but there's a population of people that are getting left behind, and so, you know, how does that like, what does that mean If we're talking about moving to an AI driven future, but then we have people that don't have AI access.
• 1:11:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like what does that mean, you know?
• 1:11:49
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And so, yeah, we, there is just, it's so many, it's so many things, and that's why I'm like, that's why I feel like I'm all over the place, like not in a bad way, but just trying to cover as many areas as I can, to fill as many gaps as I can, because I just don't want to see like my students get left behind just because of where they come from or because of the color of their skin.
• 1:12:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): We close out any.
• 1:12:18
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): What do for?
• 1:12:19
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): For folks who are listening, who are whether they're funders, maybe they're at companies, maybe they're just really energized by this, this challenge of you know, helping to transform schools and make sure students are ready to thrive in this, this new world of ai.
• 1:12:36
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like what do you need more of?
• 1:12:38
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Like how can they help teachers like you?
• 1:12:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, I mean, I think funding is always a thing you know.
• 1:12:45
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know, even as a computer science teacher, you know it's like okay, we need.
• 1:12:50
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: You know we're using Chromebooks here.
• 1:12:52
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Well, chromebooks are great from one standpoint, but they're not great when you're trying to do kind of some heavy loading.
• 1:12:58
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So resources is always and I always envision this thing right Because there's so many organizations doing so many great things.
• 1:13:07
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But I really envision this thing of like some kind of collaborative force and I know it's like you know it's kind of counterintuitive to our society, like everybody wants to like be number one, but like if some of the big names would like come together, like Voltron, you know, and like like a power thing because it's, it's there's so many.
• 1:13:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Like there's one group is doing this and one group is doing that, but again, sometimes it gets overwhelming because like what do I want to do?
• 1:13:37
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But like we could get like a collective gathering of like resources.
• 1:13:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's like this is the powerhouse.
• 1:13:45
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: This is where you come Like I don't know, I feel like it's very utopian, are always time, you know, if there was a way to the teachers you know like to take off, like okay, I want to take off to go to this conference.
• 1:14:06
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Well, I have to create sub plans, and then I can't leave my computers here because the kids would destroy them if I'm not here.
• 1:14:09
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So now I have to come up with computer science lessons that don't utilize computers, you know.
• 1:14:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's you know, giving teachers the opportunity to participate in these types of things, but not making it like an additional burden on them.
• 1:14:24
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: And it's sad because, like all summer, like I've been doing stuff right, I've been presenting at conferences, I've been in focus groups, because that's when teachers have time, but that's also when teachers need a break.
• 1:14:35
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): But that's also when teachers need a break.
• 1:14:38
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, again, the complete misnomer of the summer, that's off, right, and yeah, I mean like I think we shouldn't be shy about this Like there's one very simple answer to the question of like, what do teachers need?
• 1:14:52
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And it's resources, it's more pay.
• 1:14:54
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I mean, oh, my God, my mom works 60 hours a week.
• 1:15:00
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Um, my mom works more than me a lot of the time I did it's wild because she's going on the weekend, she's going to like the talent show and um, and it's just wild to me that there's we're so like aghast at the idea of teachers making a, you know, like a reasonable wage.
• 1:15:16
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And strikes me it's like in Japan, you, if you, you try, and if you try to become a teacher, and if you, if you, if you fail at becoming a teacher, it's like okay, I guess I'll do my fallback, I'll try to go to medical school, like that's how revered educators are in Japanese society.
• 1:15:35
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And I just don't understand where we lost the plot in the US, where yeah, it's the opposite.
• 1:15:40
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: We're like oh, I don't know what I want to do.
• 1:15:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I guess I'll be a teacher.
• 1:15:44
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, there's a stupid phrase I'm not even going to repeat, about teaching.
• 1:15:51
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Well, and teachers need to be listened to also, like, I think that and that comes with professionalism, like, right, like nobody's going to a doctor saying no, no, no, no.
• 1:15:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think that and that comes with professionalism, right, nobody's going to a doctor saying no, no, no, no.
• 1:16:00
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I think I know how to perform this open heart surgery better than you, but yet in the field of education, everybody always thinks that they know better than the teachers, and that's very frustrating, and so I'm very fortunate to be part of organizations that do value and listen to teacher voices, but I think that that is not always the norm.
• 1:16:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So there are always decisions being made about teachers, but teachers have no agency in the process, and so I think that is also a very big thing that I think would need to change is giving teachers voices and decision-making power.
• 1:16:40
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, especially in this moment where we are making some really big decisions about what education is going to look like, what society is going to look like.
• 1:16:49
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Michelle Shamo Pierce, this was really fun.
• 1:16:57
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Are you any other conferences on the?
• 1:17:02
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): You're back in school now, so you're probably your conference season's winding down.
• 1:17:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Do you have?
• 1:17:05
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Will you be at like South by Southwest maybe, or the AI show?
• 1:17:10
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: No, my conference season never winds down.
• 1:17:12
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: There's always conferences.
• 1:17:14
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I do kind of shift a little bit this part of the year I tend to do more local conferences.
• 1:17:17
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I do kind of shift a little bit this part of the year I tend to do more local conferences, so I'm doing like some North Carolina ones focused on like STEM.
• 1:17:23
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But yeah, there's always something.
• 1:17:26
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: There's a big shift now for virtual conferences, which that was kind of one of my most recent hurdles, because I'm used to presenting but then having to record presentations, to present virtually has been new, but there's been a big push for that.
• 1:17:39
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So I've been participating in a few virtual conferences.
• 1:17:43
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it never ends for me.
• 1:17:44
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Every time I think it's going to end, something else pops up or somebody tells me they need me to go to something.
• 1:17:49
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's always I never know where it, just you know.
• 1:17:53
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But again, I love the journey and I love I've become OK with not knowing right, not knowing what's next and just waiting for the next opportunity, because it always leads to something fun like this, right, so yeah, so I'm very grateful.
• 1:18:10
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And, speaking of that, if someone is, you know, planning a conference and looking for an amazing keynote speaker or presenter, what's the best way for them to contact you?
• 1:18:20
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, so actually I'm launching my business and my website is almost done.
• 1:18:26
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I guess maybe by the time this is released that'll be done, Maybe by the time this is released, it'll be done.
• 1:18:30
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, so it's gonna be.
• 1:18:31
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I'll just go ahead and put it out there.
• 1:18:33
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Right, it's gonna be.
• 1:18:34
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: So it's gonna be my initials, msp Collective, so you'll be able to search me up.
• 1:18:41
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: But you can also find me on LinkedIn, instagram, facebook, tiktok, michelle Shamo Pierce.
• 1:18:46
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: It's across the board.
• 1:18:48
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: I'll probably be transitioning things to MSP Collective as we get it rolling, but, yeah, you can find me.
• 1:18:54
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Linkedin is great.
• 1:18:54
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Post lots of information on there and try to keep it updated about what I'm doing.
• 1:18:57
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Yeah, center of GM.
• 1:18:58
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Linkedin is great.
• 1:18:58
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Post lots of information on there and try to keep it updated about what I'm doing.
• 1:19:00
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Yeah, center of GM Michelle is really fun.
• 1:19:02
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): I'll let you get back to prep.
• 1:19:04
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): When did the kids come to school?
• 1:19:06
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: On Monday A week yes.
• 1:19:08
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Okay, I'll leave you to your Friday.
• 1:19:11
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): Hopefully you're able to get out of the building a little early.
• 1:19:13
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): And yeah, thanks again for joining.
• 1:19:15
  Alex Kotran (aiEDU): This was super fun.
• 1:19:16
  Michelle Shomo Pierce: Thanks, Alex.