Latest / Open Tabs / 🎧 The platform wars are getting weird

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🎧 The platform wars are getting weird · Open Tabs

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, welcome to OpenTabs,
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: our twice-weekly Substack Live,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: where we talk about things taking up space in our tabs,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: our feeds, and our brains this week.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Melissa.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Em.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, I can hear you.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is take two, because
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: take two.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So Stock Live, there are glitches sometimes.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always a little bit of a gamble.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: But how are you this morning?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big morning.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Big morning.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing well.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: We have our first safe school here in Northern California.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: We had two different school drop-offs.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: My son was earlier and had his first day on the bus.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really cute.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then Lucy was an hour later.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I also, you know, I end up fighting more off, more off that I can show typically.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm doing spirit wear.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to sell spiritware and bring a bunch of merch to the school and
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: then have my husband carry it back and forth to the car.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, here we are from drop off to Substack Live.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it's been good.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm a little congested, too.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's this like It's an insane cold that's been going through our house.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: It starts with a cough and then goes to the other things, and I'm on day four of it or five.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of lingering.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it just sounds crazy.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I had it for the other week.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where I got it from because I'm never around any kids.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's just this time of year.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a journey time of year.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we have some fun topics we're gonna hit today.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is like, 12-hour-old news, but I don't know if you saw this.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok made a Substack.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, the company TikTok is now-
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, gosh, I did not
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: see that.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, how cool.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's called The Creator's Cut, and it is specifically dedicated to TikTok live creators.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it'll be, like, Q&As.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about, like,
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: sharing- The lives and like come ups of specifically TikTok live creators,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: which I thought was interesting.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're like obviously like very much trying to push live content on the platform
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: and like live streaming on TikTok.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what I thought was interesting, they only have 17 subscribers as of this right now.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the reception has not been warm.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Very cold reception.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like they posted a Substack note yesterday.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hi, hey, Substack, TikTok's here.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the comments are filled or replies are filled with people like, I don't want TikTok here.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Get off.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like this isn't the platform for TikTok.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wrong app.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then people being like, what is TikTok?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I do not know what TikTok is.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, very cold reception so far.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought it was wild that even though it's a bit icy, they only have 17 subscribers.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Was this like covered in news somewhere that you saw this?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I just happened to be in notes and I saw their post.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just TikTok is like the handle?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, TikTok.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's the creators cut by TikTok Live.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, but it's interesting.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like to be a PR engine or, you know, generate buzz for their TikTok Live creators.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: They like name drop,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: like stars that have come out of TikTok and I guess stars
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: that have utilized TikTok Live.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they have like Cat's Eye, Madonna, Alex Warren.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I just thought it was like very interesting that like live of all things is fantastic.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Going to Substack.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I guess there are a lot of like,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: former journalists on the platform and if they want to like generate some PR
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: and buzz for their TikTok Live creators, this is an avenue to do that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I thought it was very interesting.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously it would be like straight in competition with Substack Live, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can go live on Substack.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in some ways, like,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't hate this idea if I am TikTok and I'm, like, coming up with this concept.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this, like,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: there's this constant question of, like,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: how do you make the best high-quality experience
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: for your audience,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: for your fandom, or for the consumers that are using one's platform,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like, to me,
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: it also feels like it might be more of a way to siphon people away from Substack,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: maybe to TikTok.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the call to action at the bottom of their announcement is somewhere along the way.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you'll find yourself thinking, I should go live.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I also think that, like,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: from a brand perspective,
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: obviously we've talked about, like, Hinge,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: and I feel like we have all sort of that, like,
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hinge's approach to Substack is so thoughtful and, like, it's, like, their brand.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's authentic to their brand, like, the love story sort of, you know, model, but it...
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's an evolution that is specific to the audience on Substack.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this feels like just even looking at it at a glance, it also feels very half-assed.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just looking at my Live My Story launched six days ago.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why we're launching the Creators Cut.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: It showed up at the Met.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are millions of creators on our platform.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's what makes TikTok live.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: See, this feels very, like, I don't know, like, brandy.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, like,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: kind of icky, like, hey,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: we're jumping onto this platform and we're trying to, like, recruit people to ours.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it doesn't feel like,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a whole world where they could have been, like,
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: we're gonna,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: we see Substack as a space where we can,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: like, gather creators together, which, by the way, Why would TikTok ever do that?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why do that when they could come up with some sort of product or situation
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: on their own platform?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't totally hate this on the outset, but it just feels very brandy and inauthentic.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you look at who they subscribe to, it's all marketing, publications.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's interesting.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even look at that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just thought, like, I was like, it feels, like, very brandy.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, did, like,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: it's not,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it is,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: but, like, it felt very, like, chat, GPT-y and, like, press release-y.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just, like, so, but, yeah,
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: looking at who they're subscribed to,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: AdAge, which just launched on Substack because of marketing, Claude.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: The New Yorker.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is just, like,
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, them, like,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: wanting to reach journalists and,
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: like, brand people to then work with their TikTok Live creators.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: But, yeah, so far, very cold reception from... Yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: If I were to, like,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: give the advice,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: though, like, you have to play the rules of a platform when you get on there.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So like,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok has so many interesting creators doing interesting things
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: with interesting stories.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I would really hone in more on like, great storytelling.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I like the idea of niche.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they wanted to just be creators that are going live, great.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like that can be, here's a whole set of creators going live, how they're doing it, case studies.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Best practices,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: how it has evolved our storytelling,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: even get the creators involved,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: like have them co-publish, commission content from them.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think like the gripe we always talk about with,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: we talked a lot about this on Tuesday with Instagram and like their inability
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: to archive.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think like Substack could be like an archival compliment to TikTok.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very different sort of experience.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: It could be like the writing.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Again, if you're thinking of a journalist and it's, like,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: sort of a multimedia experience,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: someone wants to, like,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: compile their work,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: like, and it's not on TikTok, compliment and supplement is the idea.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: But, like,
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: this initial execution is, like,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: literally, like,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I almost look at it and I'm,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: like, I wonder if this is fake because it's so, like, like, so done so icky.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I, like, have you ever even logged in Substack?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's very sanitary.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of books and cozy rooms and tea.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can't walk in there and be like, hey,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Mad Men.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it'll be interesting to see what they post next.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, separate platform news.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok, I mean, sorry,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube is offering creators millions to not work with Netflix,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: which I thought was very interesting.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So they're paying top creators to keep their videos exclusive to YouTube for
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: a set period of time.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they're doing this by like either directly helping to fund their shows
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: or giving them shares of major ad revenue.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was interesting,
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: but like We've talked about over the past few months,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: like Netflix started doing their podcasts.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: With like a lot of YouTubers.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this is YouTube's response to that.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they're also like trying to discourage cross-posting too.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they want to keep like YouTube creator content exclusive to their platform
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: and they're paying them in order to do that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, here's my thought.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like YouTube needs to
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: really create a better television interface.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they have the ability, they have the tech, they have the brand recognition.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're right up there with Netflix and Hulu and HBO or Max.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Peacock,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: we actually don't have it on our computer,
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: on our TV,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: mostly because we don't want our kids to be wandering around the wild blast
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: of YouTube.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a bigger issue.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's on television interfaces.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why not make it a higher quality video experience for people in front of the glass screen TV?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Using YouTube on a TV is very annoying.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just hard to navigate the platform on a TV.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know why they wouldn't.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Again, they have the content,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: they have the brand recognition, they have the placement and all of it.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's really just a matter of, can you make a better customer experience?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, why not make it feel more curated and, like, get into that world?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like they've been circling Hollywood.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: We know that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe they're moving toward that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, that's what this is.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because right now it really is an environment where talent is getting poached.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that, you know, like,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: there's a massive audience.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: But also, you know, like, you have to, like, if you are...
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Alex Earl,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: let's say,
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: or obviously she's more of a TikToker,
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: but you're like Alex Earl and someone is going to pitch you a Netflix
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: show versus,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: let's say, a YouTube
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: show.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have to weigh the pros and cons of that.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if there's a certain cachet right now that comes with Netflix,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: a certain audience specificity that would come,
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: like a demographic that is watching Netflix versus YouTube.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I said that to you,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: like if you were Alex Earl and you had a choice and it was like,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: even if it was like,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Peacock versus maybe not Peacock,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: but like maybe like HBO Max versus YouTube, what are you going to do?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like if I were her,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: it would be a no-brainer for me that I would go to the streaming platform.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there's more legitimacy to being like,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have a Netflix show than I post exclusive vlogs to YouTube.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Even though they obviously give up their control of the narrative when they go on to
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: a Netflix or a Peacock or an HBO,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: but I just feel like Netflix has become the water cooler conversation.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: When something's trending on Netflix,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's trending in culture and becomes an actual part of culture.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas at least when I was younger, YouTube used to be that.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I could go up to my friends at lunch in high school and be like,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: oh, did you guys see the YouTube video blah, blah, blah yesterday?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone would have seen it and we could talk about it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like that's no longer the case.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: That could be because I've aged out of that, but I do think it holds true.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't understand why there couldn't be like a,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know, it's all, to me, it's like curation, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like commissioning high quality video,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: like why don't, you know, it's like different divisions of a company.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: let's say like, I mean, like,
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it would be that hard to have a YouTube streaming TV interface
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: that is just like on par with Apple Plus.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Could become that next step for talent that rises through the organization.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have to believe that they have considered that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it just doesn't seem like monetary.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know from a business perspective if that makes sense for them,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: but I don't know why they wouldn't do that,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: especially if they're paying creators to not go to other places.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: To me, if they're paying creators to not go to other places,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just get the sense that they have something that they're working on they want
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: to hold them there for or just maintain.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't feel, like, exciting.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, again,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's, like,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: the missing component, and I feel like what Megan would say, is, like, Hollywood.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there isn't... Or it's just, like, not as...
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different cachet.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know what
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a YouTube creator,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: but it feels like you can,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: you peak on the platform,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: you hit your plateau, you're not going to get any bigger than that.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And a streaming, major streaming platform can bring you new advertisers, like new eyeballs.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when the Emmys, like do YouTube
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: winners win Emmys?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they'd be eligible for Emmys if they go to Netflix.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's also interesting,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube has said that they will penalize creators who do cross-post their content
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: to Netflix by not including them in major campaigns for the platform.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was crazy they explicitly state that you will be penalized
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: by not being prominently featured on YouTube anymore.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just in a way, it seems like they're playing defense when they should be in defense.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's exactly it.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't feel like Netflix,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like every couple of months we're talking about, oh, they're doing this.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: They've expanded to this.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like YouTube has been too comfortable.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And in the last year, Netflix specifically has given them a major run for their money.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're on defense.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's not fun.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't feel like innovative at all.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, like, I don't know about YouTube.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously they're highly successful, of course.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like they have just benefited from, like,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: being somewhere first so much that,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: like, the innovation doesn't seem to, like, ever hit as hard.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, yeah, like, Netflix has been working on building up podcasting and vodcasting.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's also, you know, in competition with Spotify.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's, like, sort of this, like, all, again, all platforms competing with each other.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, like,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: so silly,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: when you think about it, it's, like,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: should YouTube be sort of building out, like, an audio experience as well, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, should there be,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: like, similar to how there's, you know, Apple Podcasts and there's Spotify?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Should there be A YouTube audio?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the answer,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: but I think they do have a podcast segment because I've seen it
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: when like uploading open tabs,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: but like it's not prominently featured anywhere on the platform.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a regular YouTube user and I've never seen it anywhere.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think the other thing
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: is like,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And every creator, I mean, so many creators we've worked with, right?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: We always encourage them to put the video, the vodcast.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a benefit for SEO, for searchability, all of that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I don't know.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't, I guess I think this is interesting.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think They're playing defense.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: They should be playing offense.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm confused as to why they're not.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm hopeful that they actually have something up their sleeve.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this like last story, I just wanted to like put it on your radar specifically.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Kim Kardashian is executive producing a new sports reality show following baseball moms.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is hilarious.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you are a baseball mom.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to bring this up.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Team Moms Baseball.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like they will expand to like different sports.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can see there being like Team Moms football, Team Moms soccer.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be on Paramount.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it follows seven families whose sons attend Legendary Prep Academy,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: an elite baseball training school in Arizona.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it will follow the competition on the field and off the field.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this like high stakes, it looks like they're all like middle school age.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it'll specifically be following the moms.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this feels like dance moms, but for baseball.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I will tune in.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that sounds very interesting.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as a baseball mom.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my son is like, well, he's only eight.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: But youth sports are insane compared to what it was when I was growing up.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like the level of competition, the level of like, just how much more fit kids are also.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like on Monday,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: We have a friend who,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: like, entered a sign-up party that is, you know, in support of the school.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a fundraising thing.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's called a duathlon.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you swim for part of it and then you, like, run.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Wally has done swimming, let's just say.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So he can swim.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's a competent swimmer.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: But like the kids here are like on swim teams, like on swim teams.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I said, you know, he was like, oh, I want to do it with my friend.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: but buddy,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: like this is like,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: you're just going to get in and these kids swim laps like multiple times a week,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, no, I want to do it, whatever.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's super athletic.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like he is.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he's hand-to-eye coordination.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Lacrosse,
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: he's multi-talented, whatever.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: When I tell you, this poor kid, he jumped in and he did it.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: He was out there.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: He was doing big arms.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: He was kind of dogging paddling.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: He came in dead last.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was so proud of him.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: He actually wasn't.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: He took it so well.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: He was really good.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my God.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Putting in a chat, GPD, like, how do I sort of talk to my athletic son about this?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, whatever.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, you know, bud, I think
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: we should do a little bit of swimming.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't need to be on the swim team,
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: but I do think where we live and the nature of this is
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: that your friends are learning how to, like, open water swim.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, this is, like, you know, like, kind of a lot of kids.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's, like, not like it's just, it's, like, this weird subset, you know?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the point being is that I think this, like,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: convergence of millennial moms who are, like,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: wanting to set their kids up and make up for every, like,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: shortcoming of their childhood coupled with,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: like, money and, like, private equity, backing youth sports and everything.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's going to be, like, it'll be good.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really hard, though.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, again, it is like dance moms, and it's just I don't know.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like right now what's very hard is that we're in sort
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: of this grand experiment of pushing the kids a lot harder
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: than they've ever been pushed.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not going to know what that looks like or what kind of positives
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: or negatives that has created for another 15, 20 years.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're not going to know.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's always concerns of like, can they handle it mentally?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are they going to burn out?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Burnout is like a big thing.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Making sure that they're doing like multiple different types of sports.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think one of the bigger concerns,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: especially with baseball,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: is that like a lot of parents get their kids to specialize in it really early.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if they are certain positions like pitcher, you could like burn out your arm.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't, you know what I mean?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like kids don't like,
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know, professional athletes haven't been playing that hard for that long, right?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like starting as young as they are now.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I think that there's a lot of conversation around it.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kim is always like sort of she kind of is tends to be right on the cutting edge
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: of what's happening and rising in culture.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that this is going to be really interesting.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just think like as somebody who doesn't have a kid,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like I've been seeing I love youth sports particularly,
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: more in what I'm consuming.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was at a sports bar last night, and they were playing the Little League World Championships.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: On all the
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: big screens.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure there are actual college football games happening right now,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: but the sports bar is playing the Little League World Series,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: and people were watching.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that that's so funny that you say that because it is happening right now.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like even,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think I had mentioned this on Tuesday too,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: but ESPN was playing a Savannah Bananas game the other day.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so crazy.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a lot more marketing to women with sports.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've talked about, I love the account Sports-ish on Instagram.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: But like there's,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: even women's basketball,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: like women's sports,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: like even merch,
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: like merch,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: like for any of the major league teams that,
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know, again,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm like a late in life professional sports fan because of my son.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I like every...
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, MLB Stadium.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we went to the Red Sox.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: We went to Fenway at the beginning of the summer.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, there's stuff for everyone.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, literally my daughter has, like,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: all gear from there.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's, like, purple and pink.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, you know, it's so cute.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I don't know.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it's a good thing.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think live sports is,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if even in a macro sense, like,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: stepping back to in this, like,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: digital age,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if there's something to that,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: coupled with the marketing of it, but pulling more people into it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: It sort of parallels a bit,
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: but differently,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: some of what I feel like you and Megan have talked a lot about with the music scene,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: too.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's just interesting.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's just changes happening.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like, again, more people are trying to get out and get outside.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that this whole idea, too, of
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: making sure sports is affordable to go to see.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think the Savannah Bonetta is really trying to do that with the lottery.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Does it work?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think people still find tickets on StubHub.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like, more live experiences, the better, you know?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, if it's to cheer on, like, younger teams, great.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but I do, I mean, like, the pressure of, like, you know, it's so funny.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, while he's in a team here, it's a more competitive, like, club team, right?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: You do club.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And versus, like, your rec, which is, like, Little League.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Even in the club team, like, he enjoys both.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I will say, like,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think doing the rec is also just for the fun of the game with his best friends.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then the club is like, okay, here's, it's harder competition.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just more serious.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when he goes to practice, it's just a little bit more, it's like more intense.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like everyone is at his level or better, you know?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of, it definitely pushes him.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: But, like, I don't know if you've ever participated in anything yourself.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm a newer tennis player.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I need both.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or when I ski, like it's like I'll go skiing.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like so happy.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 40 plus.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm so happy to just be on blue squares all day.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like just easy blue squares.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like maybe I'll do something that is a little challenging.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that's it.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I don't know.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's kind of crazy.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to see the show.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be funny because it is really Dance Moms and it's like a whole new thing.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And some parents,
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: like there's a mom I have in mind,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to call her out, but like her, she has an older son too.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And he's very, very into lacrosse.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: it is just wild to see like, I mean,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: he's like probably going to start getting recruited for high schools and he's,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: he's going to fifth grade.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, like, I've seen it just on my, like, Explore page or something like that.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's interesting how, like,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: these women are building platforms for themselves on, like,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: the brand of, like,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: being a sports mom or, like, specifically a baseball mom or, like, a lacrosse mom.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's, like, very interesting.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this also goes back to our ongoing conversation of,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: like, should I start a sports Instagram for WALL-E?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: One of my good friends just started one for her son, who is a year older than him.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he's a really, really good golfer.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, oh my God, she's literally setting him up for sponsorships and stuff.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because he competed in like a,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it's like U10, golf,
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: like one of the champions of California.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I know, I don't, I know, I don't know what to say.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I actually thought,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: this is actually kind of an interesting,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: smart idea, to be honest with you, because it's like if he is, I don't know.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in this big social experiment right now.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but it's interesting.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like we're on the front end where this is like bubbling up,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: just about to hit more like mainstream.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's very interesting.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be interesting to see how the show does.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I bet it'll be great.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if they'll expand to different sports.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it'll be interesting.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, memes.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: It must be so fun.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we love when Megan is here,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: but obviously it's always so fun to do this with just the two of us.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Considering we're talking all day long, too.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're about to hop on a different call together.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yay, thank you guys.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you next week.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, bye.