Latest / Whisky Stories Podcast / Gordon Dundas: Glengoyne, Tamdhu, Rosebank, Laggan Bay and Una - Ft Jake Adcook

Transcript

Gordon Dundas: Glengoyne, Tamdhu, Rosebank, Laggan Bay and Una - Ft Jake Adcook · Whisky Stories Podcast

• 0:00
  To do this right, I guess you know what to do.
• 0:02
  Clap us in. Welcome to the Whiskey Stories
• 0:07
  podcast. This is somebody you could come
• 0:10
  as even a non traditional whiskey drinker and take the
• 0:14
  history of Rosebank and kind of get Scotland a kind of get Scott
• 0:18
  whiskey, whereas you're Indian is doing an Isla distillery
• 0:22
  Terminal 2 on Isla. Terminal 2.
• 0:25
  So have you ever? Yeah.
• 0:26
  So how exciting is that, you know?
• 0:28
  It's Wagon Bay, actually. But but yeah, yeah.
• 0:33
  But that's, I think we're not far off that, are we, Jake?
• 0:36
  Welcome along at the Whiskey Stories podcast at a Rosebag
• 0:39
  distillery. Super lies.
• 0:42
  Well, what? This Is Us just after a Rosebag
• 0:46
  tour. Yeah, we're in a lot.
• 0:47
  Keeper's Cottage. We are, we've had some, we've
• 0:49
  managed. I don't know how we've wangled
• 0:51
  this to be perfectly honest with you lads.
• 0:52
  We've we've just had that I just had that bringing you along
• 0:56
  really opens doors. Absolutely.
• 0:59
  We've we've just had a full tour an exclusive tour of Rosebank,
• 1:02
  the story, which you'll be able to check on the YouTube channel
• 1:04
  yeah Later on, after the drams that we've got in front of us,
• 1:07
  we're heading off to Glen going for a tour at Glen going as
• 1:10
  well, but we are joined by Gordon Dandas.
• 1:13
  Gordon, how are you? I'm.
• 1:15
  Very well. How are you?
• 1:16
  Brilliant. Great to have you here look,
• 1:18
  it's great to have you here. It's it's pretty special place
• 1:21
  this Yeah. And it's I just love coming back
• 1:24
  here. So great to be here.
• 1:25
  Great time. Great to chat to you.
• 1:27
  What's your official? Well, what's your official
• 1:28
  title, Gordon? Just so.
• 1:30
  It's quite long and fairly brand development and advocacy
• 1:34
  director. I mean there we are.
• 1:36
  It's it's ambassadorial. I think you're the first brand
• 1:39
  development and advocacy. Thanks.
• 1:43
  Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, I'm not even
• 1:45
  going to try and explain it. I've come from being an
• 1:48
  ambassador. That's what I do.
• 1:49
  I love talking about whiskey. Yeah, that's my, that's.
• 1:51
  And so we've had Mike Brown on before, who essentially was
• 1:56
  under, under you. Works with Mike.
• 1:58
  You were kind of the global brand ambassador, global brand
• 2:00
  manager and then you've done more of.
• 2:02
  That so, yeah, Mike, Mike's fabulous.
• 2:04
  And I have another two people who work for me, Gordon Dallas,
• 2:07
  who a lot of people will know. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:09
  Who is just a pocket full of knowledge of whiskey and Philip
• 2:14
  Kingscott, who works predominantly on Edinburgh gin.
• 2:17
  Yes. So yeah.
• 2:18
  I mean, Ian McLeod just others have been we were big fans of
• 2:22
  the time to Glenn coins all that.
• 2:25
  But even like so, Jake, you got in touch.
• 2:27
  Explain. For anyone that's listening,
• 2:28
  Jake Cadcook. Jake's here as well.
• 2:29
  Yeah, on the pod. Yeah.
• 2:31
  Return Jake. Jake's been here looking after
• 2:33
  us, picked us up from the train station this morning, which
• 2:36
  isn't his official title. But but but Jake, you know,
• 2:40
  we've had yourself, but but Mike, we've had Vicky on the
• 2:44
  podcast as well. So like Ian MacLeod, just tell
• 2:46
  us we we love it. And it probably helps that we
• 2:49
  genuinely like the products first.
• 2:51
  Yeah. And then we kind of reached out.
• 2:53
  We were starting this podcast when nobody was listening and
• 2:55
  other people do listen to people, but it's.
• 2:57
  Really interesting people. That are buying the products,
• 2:59
  yeah, based off of us and this is bloody tasting.
• 3:02
  Well, it was Jake that came onto the pot.
• 3:04
  Well, Angus and I were over in Germany last year for the EUR
• 3:07
  and we, we were, we were, it was London.
• 3:10
  We flew, yeah. We were in Heathrow and.
• 3:13
  We needed a. Bottle We needed a bottle to
• 3:14
  take it was Graham and I we needed a a travel exclusive,
• 3:18
  preferably a litre and and we've straight straight away we spied
• 3:22
  the Glen going. It was a 10.
• 3:24
  Year old, Yeah. First fell.
• 3:26
  It's now a 12 year. Old Yeah, yeah.
• 3:27
  And it was yeah, yeah. First full European and first
• 3:30
  full American. So no, it's predominantly
• 3:33
  bourbon, both a sprinkling and first full sheriff.
• 3:36
  That's what that's what drew our attention to it was the bourbon
• 3:39
  element of it. But also we enjoyed that on a
• 3:41
  lovely train trip from Munich to.
• 3:43
  Yeah, most, most of it was consumed between Munich and, you
• 3:47
  know, between Nuremberg and Cologne.
• 3:49
  Yeah, on the train. But then I put a picture up on
• 3:51
  the that's on the train drinking it.
• 3:53
  And it's that you message to say, well, as your podcast and I
• 3:56
  was actually part of that project.
• 3:58
  Yeah. And that's what opened the the
• 3:59
  the door to us. And ever since then, I've never
• 4:01
  seen you with your top button. No.
• 4:04
  One has. But I I think it's interesting
• 4:07
  off we've actually seen real brand development from whiskeys
• 4:12
  that are so established accidentally through the podcast
• 4:15
  then going white oak. We couldn't have anticipated
• 4:18
  that became a thing right at the same time that we got Jake on.
• 4:20
  And that was, well, I think I mentioned it as my drama of the
• 4:23
  year last year. And I actually preferred the non
• 4:25
  age statement to the 24. Yeah, Dario or Celie came on
• 4:28
  with a sample of the 24 year old.
• 4:30
  That was the week it was released.
• 4:31
  Yeah. And then we tried the 21 year
• 4:33
  old. Mike brought it on the podcast
• 4:34
  before it was released. So we've been lucky pups,
• 4:37
  really. And we've.
• 4:39
  Got some grams in front of us as well, yes.
• 4:42
  Gordon, what have we? What have we got in front of us?
• 4:44
  Well, yeah, we thought we'd give you a wee cross section because
• 4:48
  you know, actually here at Rosebank we we actually cover a
• 4:52
  few other touch points of our other distilleries.
• 4:55
  So we've got the wonderful 18 year old Glen going, which is
• 4:59
  back with a vengeance. It was discontinued.
• 5:01
  Yeah, it was discontinued pretty much because Glen Going was shut
• 5:04
  in 2003. Sorry, we bought it in 2003, but
• 5:09
  there's there was no production at that point and that hole just
• 5:11
  runs through your stocks and that's why we had to take the 18
• 5:14
  away. So how?
• 5:15
  How long had it not been in production?
• 5:17
  And probably about a year by the time it wind down and wind up,
• 5:20
  maybe not as long as that, but it takes time to to build up to
• 5:23
  the levels that you need. That just creates a hole which
• 5:26
  moves through your stocks. So it started with the 15, then
• 5:28
  it moved on to the 18. And it's great to see the 18
• 5:32
  back. So that's the 18 we've got a Tam
• 5:35
  do here, which we can maybe talk a bit more about when we come on
• 5:38
  to it. And then in the middle, in the
• 5:39
  beautiful glass, yes, is our Rosebank 32.
• 5:42
  Wow. So yeah, we've got three lovely,
• 5:45
  lovely dresses. Super.
• 5:46
  Well, thank you very much. First of all, thank you for for
• 5:48
  having us here. Thank you for welcoming us in.
• 5:51
  The tour's fantastic. But before we before we move on
• 5:53
  to any of this stuff, I want to find out a little bit more about
• 5:55
  yourself. Yeah.
• 5:56
  What's your journey? What was your journey into
• 5:58
  whiskey and how did you end up going from where you started to
• 6:02
  being on the Whiskey Stories podcast?
• 6:04
  Well, and, and what a, what a, what an honour it is.
• 6:07
  And thank you. No, it's interesting.
• 6:09
  I, it would be wrong for me to say I fell into whiskey because
• 6:14
  but I sort of did. I was, I graduated as an
• 6:16
  engineer from the University of Strathclyde.
• 6:18
  My dad was an engineer. I was in that sort of don't
• 6:21
  really know what I want to do after uni type thing.
• 6:23
  Worked in engineering for five years.
• 6:25
  The best thing about engineering?
• 6:26
  Nothing. But the only good thing about
• 6:29
  engineering was finishing at 1:00 on a Friday.
• 6:31
  Yes, that's the. Only good thing which a lot of
• 6:34
  whiskey companies actually do. What that?
• 6:38
  Was an engineer. You need to listen.
• 6:41
  You need to listen. Yeah.
• 6:42
  I don't look like it. Well, a lot of whiskey.
• 6:44
  Companies do because we've actually had a bit of because
• 6:46
  we've tried now and again to arrange tours on a Friday and we
• 6:50
  when we went up to Temat and it was no, you need to come in the
• 6:53
  morning, yeah, because everybody will be everybody finished in
• 6:56
  the. Afternoon and so our production
• 6:58
  team like for Glenn going the warehouse guys are finished on a
• 7:01
  they finish on a Friday afternoon yeah most.
• 7:03
  I mean, imagine if you imagine if you kick them on, you
• 7:05
  wouldn't have had that one year whole for a year if you don't
• 7:09
  work until 5:00 PM in a frontal label.
• 7:13
  But what's Yeah, but what's we actually Ian McLeod as what we
• 7:18
  do day-to-day. We work a fight.
• 7:20
  We finish at 4:30 on a Friday, but she's still a lot.
• 7:23
  Whiskey companies finish at 2 on a Friday.
• 7:26
  And so finishing early on Friday as an engineer gave you some.
• 7:28
  So, so that was like that was the only upside of being an
• 7:31
  engineer. I just wasn't.
• 7:32
  Wasn't that real type of was. Living in Glasgow at the time.
• 7:35
  Just yeah, yeah, I'm a W coaster so living in Glasgow, just left
• 7:39
  Strathclyde working in engineering.
• 7:41
  Actually, in Rosyth they've all places.
• 7:43
  Babcock was it? Yeah.
• 7:44
  And then I was like, this is rubbish.
• 7:46
  And then I thought what do I really want to do?
• 7:48
  I'd love to work in sport. So, and I started to work in
• 7:52
  sports hospitality. So I was basically it was every
• 7:55
  weekend I'm at Wimbledon, I'm at the, the Formula One Grand Prix,
• 7:58
  I'm at the SRU, I'm at, you know, all these great things and
• 8:03
  went to Australia with that job. So this is great.
• 8:05
  But it was a really sort of great business, but flat
• 8:07
  structure and you're like, what's going to happen?
• 8:09
  Commission based as well. So it was quite hard work.
• 8:12
  And then I, my sister said to me, I've got this friend who's
• 8:16
  got this magazine publishing company, Whiskey Magazine,
• 8:20
  Scotland Magazine, do you want to come and work?
• 8:22
  And he's looking for somebody in Scotland to run around.
• 8:24
  Yeah, I'll do that. And that was really my
• 8:27
  transition into Whiskey Magazine when I started to work for, up
• 8:30
  until 2011, I worked in Whiskey Magazine, started Whiskey Lives,
• 8:34
  helped to start these Whiskey Lives, the one in Glasgow years
• 8:36
  ago. Whiskey lives everywhere.
• 8:39
  And so I travelled the world with that, went to Kentucky a
• 8:41
  lot, made a lot of good friends in Kentucky.
• 8:43
  So I, you see this industry from a slightly different angle.
• 8:46
  When you're Whiskey Magazine, you should have he sort of it's
• 8:49
  really interesting and in this industry is brilliant for the
• 8:52
  people as well as the drams, it's the people.
• 8:54
  So that was fabulous. And then I decided that was my
• 8:59
  time. I went and worked for what was
• 9:00
  Morrison Beau Moore Distillers, which was Bomoore Alcantos and
• 9:03
  Glengiri, which was Santori fully Santori owned, sold by the
• 9:08
  Morrisons, you know, Clyde side. And then that became Beam
• 9:13
  Santori in 2014 when I lived out in Taiwan that year, developing
• 9:17
  the business for what was Morrisonville Moore.
• 9:20
  But we came be beside sorry. How do you know?
• 9:22
  Well, let's slow this down a second.
• 9:24
  How? How so?
• 9:25
  That's brilliant. Yeah.
• 9:26
  That's a fantastic company to work for.
• 9:28
  How did you decide you're going from Whiskey magazine, where
• 9:31
  you've got that kind of freedom to work with anybody?
• 9:33
  No, I want some brand work. Yeah.
• 9:35
  And then brand work was originally in Scotland and that
• 9:37
  was brand development straight away it.
• 9:39
  Was brand ambassadorial? Yeah, Ambassador.
• 9:41
  European brand ambassador. And so at this point, how old
• 9:43
  are you at this point? Yeah, fairly, fairly old.
• 9:49
  And you decide I'll go to Taiwan.
• 9:51
  No, no. I was offered to go to Taiwan
• 9:54
  and the business went, look, here's your package to go to
• 9:57
  Taiwan. And I was like, I'll go to.
• 9:58
  Taiwan. OK, fair enough.
• 10:01
  So I'm like, oh, that's fine. So I didn't have to simple to
• 10:03
  have to rent my house out. Yeah.
• 10:05
  So, you know, that was quite nice.
• 10:08
  I did rent out. I didn't have I negotiated.
• 10:12
  That well. I.
• 10:13
  Don't have to rent my house out, OK, I know that that's.
• 10:18
  Amazing. And so again, I'm ambassadorial
• 10:21
  for those brands in Taiwan. Yeah.
• 10:24
  So, so basically the remit to build the business with another
• 10:26
  couple of guys who were the commercial side of it to really
• 10:29
  get in amongst our third party distributors and really push
• 10:32
  more into into that market. I bet you Santori Global spirits
• 10:35
  will be happy with the job we've done now nowadays especially for
• 10:38
  more. Well, yeah.
• 10:40
  But I mean, interestingly, what was interesting, you know, it
• 10:43
  was when Beam Santori was being formed and I was a little bit
• 10:47
  out of sight, out of mind, if I'm honest.
• 10:49
  And so once I came back from that, where I was within Beam
• 10:54
  Suntory, which is great brands, great company, was not where I
• 10:58
  really wanted to be. So that's ultimately when a
• 11:02
  couple of years later I joined Ian MacLeod and.
• 11:06
  What role was that first? Ian MacLeod.
• 11:08
  So that was sort of global brand ambassador and then it's
• 11:11
  developed into and. We we've had a few global brand
• 11:14
  ambassadors on from Danny Dyer who was Grants, which is such a
• 11:17
  fun job as a young cocktail bartender talking about
• 11:20
  cocktails in South America. But you're joining MacLeod
• 11:23
  Stillers who have purchased Tam do from Edrington.
• 11:27
  You've got Glen going. This is very established small
• 11:30
  in the UK market as a global brand ambassador.
• 11:33
  That must have been quite challenging because they're
• 11:36
  they're not global brands at that.
• 11:38
  No, they have pockets of fans and pockets of people who love
• 11:42
  them. And you know, for a lot of
• 11:43
  people internationally, Glen Goine's that brand that they've
• 11:46
  sort of tried and not, you know, it's like the sort of friend
• 11:50
  they know, but they don't engage with enough, you know, and then
• 11:52
  that's probably what going for and more.
• 11:55
  And it's stronger in the UK, of course, But and then you have a
• 11:58
  brand like Tamdi, which literally nobody needs.
• 12:01
  And it's so good. Well, yeah.
• 12:03
  And so you must have been recognizing there's some amazing
• 12:05
  liquid, a great ethos as well, the commitment to Oak, the
• 12:11
  commitment to the story. They're going before going to
• 12:14
  love that. I guess it's still maybe a
• 12:16
  little bit early when you're first joining us.
• 12:17
  Global. I mean, when I joined Ian
• 12:20
  MacLeod I drank Tamdi 10 and thought this is really good.
• 12:24
  Was this when it was an M&S at this point?
• 12:26
  Yeah, no, I bought it in M&S pretty regularly and I thought
• 12:30
  this is really good, but I didn't know anything about the
• 12:31
  brand. I really didn't.
• 12:33
  I thought the bottle was lovely. It was in a tube, you couldn't
• 12:35
  see the bottle, but I thought this is really good.
• 12:37
  Yeah, I mean, that's my. Sorry, That was my that was my
• 12:40
  big whiskey moment was time to 10 at the at the Balmoral served
• 12:44
  by Chuck Kerr. Yeah, I, I sat there.
• 12:46
  I didn't really know what to have.
• 12:48
  And he came in and he said, look, and I think it's a we've
• 12:52
  talked about it a little bit. Whiskey Cheat Sheets yeah, Ben
• 12:55
  Romick 15 is a whiskey CHEAT SHEET and Tam do 10 for me was a
• 12:58
  a CHEAT SHEET a CHEAT SHEET and Tam do I've seen you guys do it
• 13:01
  in action. Yeah.
• 13:03
  At the at the at Scotch of Balmoral is if someone comes in
• 13:05
  and they you know, if it's an international guest,
• 13:08
  predominantly an American maybe and they say.
• 13:10
  I like a McAllen. Yeah.
• 13:12
  Why don't you try Tam? Do try Tam.
• 13:13
  Do. Oh my God, that's amazing.
• 13:15
  Yeah, exactly. And I buy it.
• 13:16
  Exactly. It's such a simple formula for
• 13:18
  us to. Follow so easy.
• 13:19
  But at the same time you were going in my head that's
• 13:22
  obviously you have the Netherlands in Germany where
• 13:25
  there's a big demand for high end single malts and France buy
• 13:29
  more single malt than everybody else.
• 13:30
  But a global brand ambassador for a brand that nobody knows as
• 13:33
  much as we give it a lot of time and respect, now that must have
• 13:35
  been difficult. Well, it is, but, I mean, you
• 13:37
  know, you, you can only really go there with and, and go there
• 13:41
  with the attitude. This whiskey's great.
• 13:44
  And when you taste it, you're going to.
• 13:45
  Yeah. That's the sort of attitude you
• 13:47
  have to have. Yeah.
• 13:48
  And luckily, that's the case with the MEC.
• 13:51
  I would agree with that. I mean, when you you like smoke
• 13:53
  head you, you with the drams that we've we've got in front of
• 13:57
  us, like say the Glen going 18. I'm absolutely loving that at
• 13:59
  the moment. But I think there's something
• 14:01
  really nice about being surprised in whiskey.
• 14:04
  And I think they're the whiskeys that make you stand up a little
• 14:06
  bit more where and that's where, yeah, you've maybe got a shelf
• 14:10
  of brands that you can recognise.
• 14:11
  You'll have predominant Isla brands, you have predominant
• 14:13
  space, site brands, etcetera, etcetera.
• 14:15
  But when you have a whiskey that you go, oh, never heard of these
• 14:18
  guys or had an awful lot of their stuff, but that's an
• 14:20
  absolute cracker. I think that makes a huge
• 14:22
  difference and have that. If the product's good, then then
• 14:25
  it sells itself. Whereas if you're in a very
• 14:27
  established brand, it's it's how do you improve on what?
• 14:30
  People already preconceive or already have.
• 14:33
  And are we going to say the words liquid till lips?
• 14:37
  I think it would surprise you, Angus, when the product's good
• 14:40
  sometimes. Hope it doesn't sell and we talk
• 14:43
  probably another brand to add in to mention how much have we
• 14:48
  spoken about Glencadam and and they're kind of almost two years
• 14:50
  we've done this podcast. Absolutely, yeah.
• 14:52
  And you speak to the talented guys there and they go well, Tom
• 14:54
  and Till keeps the lights on. And as much as everybody of
• 14:57
  course, in Westby likes Glencadam, you can't sell it.
• 15:01
  They're not sure what it is. It's a great DRAM.
• 15:02
  It's a brilliant DRAM. And so you're starting as a
• 15:05
  global brand ambassador. If premium coach does your
• 15:07
  portfolio is Cam doing Glen going at that point?
• 15:10
  And smoke head. And you've got some blended
• 15:13
  malts as well or? Yeah.
• 15:14
  I mean, we had, we had, we've got pig's nose and sheep dip and
• 15:19
  funnily enough a brand eye with Sky blended whiskey, which was
• 15:22
  really taking off in certain markets.
• 15:25
  And we had Edinburgh Gin that was pretty much us at that
• 15:28
  point. A few other a long tail of
• 15:30
  brands of which I can't even name about any of them.
• 15:33
  But Taylor, like we, I think we've got one of the biggest
• 15:35
  selling whiskeys in Bhutan there.
• 15:37
  You go. I love it.
• 15:40
  And so we use. Primarily.
• 15:42
  Focused on single malt at this point.
• 15:45
  Yeah, single malt, so so yeah. And how do you expand into
• 15:48
  markets as a global brand ambassador for those?
• 15:49
  Brands so I mean it's all about you know the first thing is
• 15:53
  what's she's what's she's strategy.
• 15:54
  Well, we don't have big budgets. We're a family run whiskey
• 15:56
  business. So whiskey and mouth, yeah.
• 16:00
  Is whiskey and mouth is really important because if you, if
• 16:05
  you're happy to, you know, we, we know the quality these guys
• 16:09
  are producing the, the cast that we're buying are fabulous.
• 16:12
  So we know that the whiskey's great.
• 16:14
  Yeah. So we know that we need to go in
• 16:16
  there by saying if you drink that, that's fine, but you need
• 16:19
  to try this. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:20
  And it's almost that so. And you need to do that
• 16:22
  internationally and in Taiwan. If you've ever been to Taiwan,
• 16:25
  it is the most amazing whiskey market because it's low
• 16:29
  taxation. So if you want to see the most
• 16:32
  diverse range of whiskeys ever released that you never see in
• 16:35
  this country or anywhere else, they're all in Taiwan, really.
• 16:37
  Yeah, they have a ridiculous amount of limited editions in
• 16:40
  Taiwan. It's the only market in the
• 16:42
  world where single malt outsells blends by volume.
• 16:47
  High volume. Yeah, because I mean, I've been
• 16:49
  to a lot of distilleries that I've had in their shop, you
• 16:52
  know, for example, oh, here's one of our Taiwan exclusives
• 16:55
  that you can buy, you know, Glen Livet, exactly what I'm thinking
• 16:59
  of. I think they've had two or three
• 17:01
  even, you know, Taiwan exclusives.
• 17:03
  I mean, apart from the distillery where you could get
• 17:05
  them, the only other place you could get them was Taiwan, so.
• 17:08
  And we've done our fair share of Taiwan exclusives, haven't we?
• 17:12
  Yeah, yeah, Taiwan's a hard one. They love dark whiskey.
• 17:17
  Yes, yeah. Because this, again, was my
• 17:20
  preconceived notion that was Taiwan.
• 17:22
  The colour sells the whiskey as much as 100.
• 17:25
  Percent right in a very, in a very, in a very simple way.
• 17:28
  I still think a lot of Asian consumers think whiskey matures
• 17:32
  linearly and and it gets darker and darker and darker and
• 17:35
  darker. Yeah.
• 17:36
  And that's just not how it works, obviously.
• 17:39
  Because we, we, we've, we've had, we've had some very old
• 17:42
  whiskey. That's, you know, I mean, well,
• 17:44
  you just need to look at the Rosebank.
• 17:46
  Yeah, this is what, 32 year old? 32 year old.
• 17:50
  And it's and it's the lightest colour of the three on the
• 17:52
  table, so. But I mean, you know, that is
• 17:56
  still a belief that old darker is better, yeah.
• 18:00
  There's some probably gem and whiskey clubs that are the same
• 18:03
  because I'm johnna put Billy Walker's name in the bottle.
• 18:06
  They would buy the outer yeah and which I which I get and.
• 18:09
  You can see that when I was at the single model.
• 18:11
  You were like that about a year. Ago I.
• 18:12
  Was well, you'd only drink stuff heavily as cherry.
• 18:15
  Yes, cherry tart. It was my, it was my nickname.
• 18:18
  But the, the single amateur club tasting that I was at was, you
• 18:23
  know, 40 people in the room in the, in India.
• 18:25
  And, and the range of knowledge in the room was fascinating
• 18:29
  because in the same table you had somebody there that was
• 18:32
  actually being able to nose. He was an ambassador for McAllen
• 18:34
  actually, and he was on the panel for scoring whiskies and
• 18:40
  things. So he was actually very, very
• 18:41
  good at nosing the whiskies blind.
• 18:42
  And they would say that's an Indian malt, single malt, that's
• 18:45
  the Scott single malt. And he was able to actually pick
• 18:47
  some of them. Two seats beside them was
• 18:49
  another guy that was like, so just to confirm the darker the
• 18:52
  whiskey, then it doesn't matter how that's not a sign of
• 18:55
  quality. And it's like, no, but it just
• 18:57
  shows you in that market and in the Asian market, there is this
• 19:00
  preconception, but it has to start from somewhere.
• 19:03
  So somebody must have at some point or other.
• 19:05
  I've probably. Said it in the days back.
• 19:07
  It's like when they were selling whiskey in the 90s.
• 19:10
  Older is better. That was the message.
• 19:12
  And generally older whiskeys were darker.
• 19:14
  So yeah, you maybe see where it came from.
• 19:16
  Yeah, Gordon, I mean, when when you look at your journey then
• 19:20
  into into the business, you'll have seen that Ian McLeod
• 19:23
  distillers grow and grow and grow just a bit.
• 19:25
  And what what was it like in the early days then what?
• 19:28
  Because a family owned company and that's what's great when
• 19:30
  you. You and Alan wardrobe, that's
• 19:32
  about at this point. I.
• 19:34
  Mean is it just OK? Surprise anybody buys any of our
• 19:37
  whiskey, is it? A case of just pack the bags,
• 19:40
  packs of whiskey and head off some place and.
• 19:42
  Yeah, a little bit. It's a little bit more, probably
• 19:44
  a little bit more structured than that.
• 19:45
  But I mean, yeah, I mean, definitely, we had Glenn going,
• 19:48
  we had Tam Do, we had Smokehead and our 4 main brands were
• 19:53
  Edinburgh Ginn was a big part obviously, of our business.
• 19:55
  When I joined, I joined in 2017. So you speak to the guys who
• 19:59
  were there before. Probably in the early 20 tens,
• 20:02
  the business was completely different.
• 20:04
  You know, there was no Edinburgh Ginn.
• 20:05
  There was only Glenn going. Then along came Tam Do.
• 20:10
  And and you just see that slow movement to becoming more
• 20:13
  focused on brands. Yeah.
• 20:16
  And and that is while still doing that huge part of
• 20:19
  historical business that our business was, was started on,
• 20:23
  which was that broking which we still do today.
• 20:27
  So it's, it has changed and, and we, you think of where even when
• 20:33
  I joined, which is, you know, we started to move that way, the
• 20:36
  inclusion of this place, which is just fantastic.
• 20:40
  What we're doing on Isla, which is not far off what we've done
• 20:45
  in India. And you know, we're going to
• 20:48
  have five single malt whiskey distilleries in in.
• 20:51
  Feeling for different markets as well.
• 20:52
  You're diversifying your portfolio.
• 20:54
  Look up the Rosebank. This is the luxury whiskey
• 20:57
  expedience. This isn't a distillery tour.
• 21:00
  I understand you can get a distillery tour as normal, but
• 21:02
  actually this is this is somebody you could come as even
• 21:06
  a non traditional whiskey drinker and take the history of
• 21:10
  Rosebank and go and kind of get Scotland a kind of get Scotch
• 21:13
  whiskey, whereas your Indian is still an Isla distillery
• 21:17
  Terminal 2 on Isla. Terminal 2.
• 21:20
  So have you ever yet? So how exciting is that, you
• 21:22
  know? It's Wagon Bay actually.
• 21:24
  But but yeah, yeah, I mean, that's, I think we're not far
• 21:30
  off that, are we, Jake? We had a little bit of a delay.
• 21:33
  I think we're you're aiming to be still firing by last month,
• 21:36
  but as things happen a little bit late.
• 21:38
  So I think we're probably on track for about October ish,
• 21:40
  right? But what's what?
• 21:41
  Happened and you've got it sort of right so because let's go
• 21:44
  through it you've you've got spoke head Tam do Glenn going
• 21:49
  Edinburgh Jen is your sort of. Core for.
• 21:51
  The core, what you got right now and then on top of that you've
• 21:53
  got then then so is it Una? Yeah.
• 21:57
  You've got lagging Bay. And.
• 22:00
  Rose and now Rose back here as well.
• 22:01
  So three extra on top of that, right.
• 22:03
  So from your point of view, how hard or how easy is it to be
• 22:07
  going out and talking about? You've got your core brands
• 22:10
  there that you've legacy brands, you could call them?
• 22:13
  Yeah, yeah. Then going in and saying right
• 22:14
  now here, we've got three other brands that we're going to be
• 22:16
  talking about, but they're new. Does it make it easier to talk
• 22:20
  about or does it make it harder? That's a good question.
• 22:25
  It certainly means you your tastings will change in the
• 22:27
  future. But no, I, I think it probably
• 22:30
  what I like about it is we're all about family and we're all
• 22:34
  about a family business that is developing in a way that's very
• 22:39
  exciting. Not, not that others aren't, but
• 22:41
  we're not a big corporate. So, you know, we've had a
• 22:44
  business in India for years and it makes sense in the way that
• 22:49
  that business was structured to use the money that was created
• 22:52
  from it to build a distillery, which is effectively what we
• 22:54
  did. I've not been, he's been.
• 22:56
  I've not been monkeys though, which you've covered.
• 22:58
  I want to talk a little bit about that.
• 23:01
  Yeah. And then you look at Lagan Bay
• 23:03
  and Isla is we have a highland, a lowland, a space side.
• 23:09
  We now have an island. Yeah, there is no Campbelltown
• 23:11
  coming. Space in Campbelltown.
• 23:13
  But we're talking about Lagging Bay.
• 23:15
  Then what's the plan for the spirit at Lagging Bay?
• 23:18
  Is it a traditional? I mean, I suppose there is no
• 23:21
  traditional island spirit, but presumably it'll be
• 23:24
  predominantly pitted to what level?
• 23:27
  We're going to go for heavy heat.
• 23:29
  Yeah, just because it fits the where we need basically the
• 23:32
  stock price portfolio. You know, we've got something
• 23:34
  that's pretty light. We've got 2 Tandu and Glen
• 23:36
  going, although different are probably categorized within the
• 23:40
  same style of Newman. Yeah, sure.
• 23:42
  So getting a heavy Pete on board for the helpless.
• 23:45
  Personally, I quite like like Pete.
• 23:46
  But and does that well. Will that be fading into the the
• 23:48
  blended portfolio as well then Lagan Bay?
• 23:51
  Again, not fully decided. OK Isla Malt's quite valuable,
• 23:55
  so we'll see. Ideally keep it off for single
• 23:58
  malt. Do it as a brand, yeah, but
• 24:00
  never seen. Everything.
• 24:01
  And does that mean that also when every time we get Mike
• 24:03
  Brown on after the cameras are switched off, he tells us where
• 24:06
  smokehead come? But what what you say that?
• 24:10
  Poor Ellen, you. Know I I do say to stop telling
• 24:14
  me. But in all seriousness, I think
• 24:17
  we pushed him on it a little bit.
• 24:18
  But we do have your own Iowa distillery once it's ready and
• 24:22
  and it will be once it's ready, I'm sure.
• 24:24
  Knowing you and knowing what you guys do, will that be the source
• 24:28
  for smokehead or will you continue to keep the smokehead
• 24:31
  secret going for it? I don't see us making that into
• 24:35
  Smokehead because we want to keep them two separate products
• 24:37
  while you get taxing juice. So and and Lagan Bay, will that
• 24:40
  be open to the public? And the yeah, yes, we will, but
• 24:43
  we're not, we will be staggering that and it's not, we're not
• 24:46
  going to have a shiny visitor centre from day one.
• 24:49
  It will be down the line, probably more when we have a
• 24:52
  whiskey. So from a whiskey perspective,
• 24:54
  I'm prepared Tibet, we'll have a whiskey from there before we
• 24:57
  have a whiskey from here. All right, OK, Well, now talk to
• 25:00
  me about talk, talk to me about India there because we it's, is
• 25:03
  it is it running now is that. Yeah, we're a year in, aren't
• 25:06
  we? Yeah, going for about, yeah,
• 25:08
  just over a year. And and where in India for?
• 25:12
  Is so it's in the sort of northwest near the Himalayas, OK
• 25:15
  foothills. Yeah, and now you're getting
• 25:17
  your malt from Rajasthan. Best place at the best best best
• 25:20
  ballet The fight from India the. Fight of India of.
• 25:24
  Rajasthan The. Kingdom of.
• 25:26
  Rajasthan, yeah, you're right. I think it probably was.
• 25:28
  I don't know off top ahead they make a big deal about using. 6
• 25:33
  great six row instead of yeah, that's it.
• 25:36
  That's what I mean. The best six row The best six
• 25:38
  row barley you can get in India is from Rajasthan.
• 25:41
  As a shout out to our it's painfully impressive how good
• 25:45
  Greens understanding of Indian whiskey is.
• 25:47
  Well, I just want to say is also, as we're recording this,
• 25:49
  it's Independence Day in in India.
• 25:51
  So Jai Baharan's all our Indian listeners.
• 25:54
  Yeah, it's like Javada. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's,
• 25:57
  it's always been something I've kept a close eye on for for the
• 26:01
  last three or four years, my current wife and I, I've been
• 26:05
  travelling back and forth, India and whiskey and India is far too
• 26:09
  expensive to buy Scottish single malt.
• 26:10
  And when you look at the the price tariffs changing and
• 26:13
  things, but what we have now. Is they don't have the Taiwanese
• 26:16
  tax system. No, unfortunately not.
• 26:18
  But when, when Brexit happened and there was all this chat
• 26:21
  about free trade agreements etcetera, everyone started to
• 26:24
  get really, really excited about all we're going to see tariffs
• 26:26
  drops. There's going to be huge for
• 26:28
  Scottish malt industry. Single more interesting stuff.
• 26:30
  Was that something that were were was the plan for the Indian
• 26:33
  distillery? Before the Indian market.
• 26:36
  Well, what was it? Was it already in place in 2020,
• 26:39
  2018-2019, 2020? Or was it a case of the tariffs
• 26:44
  are taking too long? We could probably build a
• 26:46
  distillery by the time tariffs are actually dropping to a point
• 26:49
  where we could be selling our whiskey over in India for the
• 26:51
  right price. Whereas actually you can enter
• 26:53
  the market early and have that already set up.
• 26:58
  So I mean, I think it, I think it was an opportunity that we
• 27:01
  took. I think that's maybe reading a
• 27:02
  bit too much into, but I think it was like we've had a business
• 27:06
  running there for 25 years where we sell, you know, bulk whiskey
• 27:09
  into that market and it's been taking it over and making nice
• 27:12
  money. And if you want to get that
• 27:14
  money out, you have to pay a huge amount of tax.
• 27:16
  So spend the money basically. And I'm surmising here, there's
• 27:20
  probably RMD in India found a site and proposed A distillery
• 27:26
  and said, this is I, I can, we can sell some of the, the spirit
• 27:30
  to Indian producers and we can make our own single malt and we
• 27:33
  can get the barley from here. We get the water from the
• 27:35
  Himalayas, which is up where it is.
• 27:37
  And this is how much it's going to cost.
• 27:39
  Boom, there you go. Which is a little bit less than.
• 27:42
  Here I can imagine, but they. Don't but see the how quickly
• 27:45
  that they can, yeah. Construction of it?
• 27:47
  Yep. Absolutely.
• 27:48
  Like, see, if you talk about building a warehouse over here,
• 27:50
  you know, you're talking about years and then planning
• 27:52
  construction. Yeah, the cost is unbelievable
• 27:55
  over there. We were speaking to them and
• 27:56
  they were just like a month away from do we put the visitor
• 27:58
  center but here or do we put the warehouse here?
• 28:00
  Yeah, they're like, well, we're on a crunch because actually
• 28:02
  they're gonna run out of warehouse space, but they can
• 28:04
  fire warehouse something a month.
• 28:05
  It's mental, but then one thing you're saying is the managing
• 28:08
  director over in India. Find a nice source of water,
• 28:11
  find a nice place for. I said.
• 28:13
  Think about the monkeys, then Jake So.
• 28:14
  No. Well, so it's in actually.
• 28:16
  Everyone, tell us about your trip.
• 28:17
  If you, I'm sorry, it was quite hot.
• 28:21
  So why would take you over to the Indians?
• 28:25
  Why are we still asking? Still under?
• 28:27
  No, it's because we were going over to.
• 28:29
  They're starting to get to the point now where their spirit's
• 28:32
  turning. One, we're going to start
• 28:33
  turning over for bulk reasons. Yeah, and they still need our
• 28:37
  quality control in their place. Now none of these guys have ever
• 28:40
  had sensory experience in terms of mature spirit.
• 28:43
  So where we're going over there to start to help train them,
• 28:45
  basically put them through the exact same process that I went
• 28:47
  through when I joined and start to try and train them up into
• 28:49
  off notes, what to pick out and when they're doing vattings, how
• 28:54
  much of certain things you can use before it becomes
• 28:57
  overpowering and things like. That and maturation also has to
• 28:59
  be approached differently in India.
• 29:01
  Yes, we're still learning. I won't lie to we're seeing how
• 29:03
  it turns out. I mean, we've got, you know, we
• 29:05
  filled the merit there, we filled Sherry casks, right?
• 29:08
  They were being filled for 20 days and they were as dark as
• 29:11
  that. Glenn, 18.
• 29:12
  Good. So I mean when it when it comes
• 29:14
  to so they're earmarked fed. So go back a bit the monkeys
• 29:19
  situation. So infestation of monkeys.
• 29:21
  Yeah. So basically, if you can
• 29:24
  imagine, actually we're the offices in Broxburn.
• 29:26
  You know, Broxburn's like an industrial state essentially
• 29:28
  it's like that, but in India, right?
• 29:30
  You know, you turn off and it's like an industrial state with a
• 29:33
  bunch of different businesses. And we're right down at the end.
• 29:35
  But it's an area where it used to be a big jungle and they've
• 29:39
  been chopping that back to to put industrial land on.
• 29:42
  And therefore, especially when they first opened a lot of the
• 29:44
  animals, just naturally, instinctively, we're going back
• 29:47
  to where they were. So yeah, lots of monkeys come
• 29:50
  over. And then when they start
• 29:52
  discovering that they can have their food source there because
• 29:54
  malt, they were happy days. Now they've sort of tamed them
• 29:59
  down a little bit where you have RV's as the happy fat monkeys,
• 30:03
  where they're not aggressive to you as long as you just leave
• 30:05
  them be. Don't look them in the eyes is
• 30:07
  what they get told. But they know how to operate the
• 30:09
  malt handle they can pull it to. Really.
• 30:11
  That's incredible. It's funny like.
• 30:13
  You could teach them how to run a spirit.
• 30:16
  Style Stop paying peanuts, you stop getting monkeys.
• 30:19
  Actually, even in terms of engineering from a site, it
• 30:21
  wasn't like they have their own effluent treatment on site
• 30:23
  because the laws in India are different there.
• 30:25
  So they can't just like tan cashew out, you have to treat it
• 30:27
  all on site. So being a nerd in production
• 30:30
  side, seeing a fully functioning effluent plant, I mean, it's not
• 30:33
  pretty, it doesn't smell good, but it's really fascinating.
• 30:36
  It's funny just very quickly. I mean, my father-in-law had a,
• 30:39
  had a business over in India and he built a factory outside,
• 30:42
  inside of, inside the Bangalore area.
• 30:46
  And it's one of the things that they found very early was they
• 30:48
  got an infestation of cobra snakes.
• 30:51
  Now The thing is, whilst everyone else we've got, Oh my
• 30:54
  God, we've got an infestation of cobra snakes.
• 30:56
  It's, it's cobra is a sign of luck over in Southeast Asia.
• 31:00
  And he maintains that that's the best thing that's ever happened
• 31:03
  to him was when he spent all his money to build this factory and
• 31:05
  they found out and they got, they weren't allowed to clear
• 31:08
  them out. So they had to leave the stakes
• 31:10
  in the factory. Used to tell this guy who's a
• 31:13
  welder and he'd be welding and you'd just hear him screaming
• 31:17
  and shouting because as he's welding you can't see when
• 31:18
  you're welding. He said he'd feel something at
• 31:20
  his feet and he'd look down and there'd just be a cobra had just
• 31:23
  gone through his legs as he was working on the shop floor
• 31:25
  welding. And he said there's stories of
• 31:27
  guys when they would have to switch the lights on, open the
• 31:30
  cupboard to switch the big thing and put your hand in.
• 31:32
  And he said that and I can't remember how many years, say 15
• 31:34
  years for argument's sake, 15 years X amount of people working
• 31:37
  there, a cobra infestation. Not single person ever got
• 31:40
  bitten by a cobra whilst they were there and he maintains that
• 31:43
  he said that that was his the luck that that he said that was
• 31:46
  the shining moment on his family when he said that we got the
• 31:49
  cobra infestation but. Keeps the workers.
• 31:52
  Attentive. I just remember this poor I
• 31:54
  could just pick this poor welder every day kind of work.
• 31:57
  Petrified of snakes, pitch black.
• 32:00
  All I can see is a welding flash and then suddenly a cobra has
• 32:03
  just gone. Gone underneath his feet.
• 32:04
  So we have doneage warehousing over there.
• 32:06
  It's all doneage. And so when we went in, actually
• 32:10
  another interesting point is it's the only where, you know,
• 32:13
  you go through all these wires in Scotland and obviously the
• 32:15
  safe days and because of volatile alcohol there, Yeah,
• 32:18
  but you never really feel it, right?
• 32:19
  You know, I bet you could. I'm not saying this, but I bet
• 32:22
  you could strike a match in a warehouse and nothing will
• 32:23
  happen, right? Don't do that.
• 32:25
  Don't do that, but the ventilation over here.
• 32:28
  So. Please evaporation.
• 32:29
  Should I just pause this at this again just in case you want to
• 32:31
  enter? That's the right.
• 32:33
  Don't don't don't like matches as.
• 32:34
  Well, but don't do that, right? I bet you could, but don't do.
• 32:41
  But over there it's the only way it's ever been.
• 32:43
  And you walk in and you feel like in your eyes and your lungs
• 32:47
  don't strike a match over there. Yeah, don't.
• 32:48
  You will go up, but over there the dunnage is if you can manage
• 32:53
  dunnage over here, they put them end to end for space, but we're
• 32:56
  over. There's gaps in between every
• 32:58
  single row and we were like, why the hell, you know, why are you
• 32:59
  doing this? And they're like, it's in case
• 33:01
  there's snakes. So when the guys are down the
• 33:03
  racks if because obviously it's cool to blur in there and the
• 33:07
  snakes would like to nest underneath all the casks.
• 33:08
  Which coolest so? If the guys are going in,
• 33:10
  they're getting bit. You know, and So what what
• 33:12
  single malt being produced in India then?
• 33:14
  How soon do you think you'll start to see that going onto the
• 33:16
  shelf? Where are waiting for you,
• 33:17
  right? Yeah, we do that with Scotland.
• 33:19
  Right, right. OK, brilliant.
• 33:20
  So I mean, I think it's probably safe to say you'll probably see
• 33:23
  a whiskey from our Indian distillery and from Lagan Bay
• 33:25
  maybe before you'll see one from here.
• 33:27
  Right. And and so there is a strange
• 33:30
  period for Rosebank because the liquid you have, it's 31 to 33
• 33:34
  years old that you bottled. And that's obviously from the
• 33:37
  previous production, which we've just learned so much about
• 33:40
  trying to replicate the video and honestly giving that ode to
• 33:45
  the history and ode to that style and incredibly unusual
• 33:48
  stills that don't really make sense in my head.
• 33:50
  And then you get, you know, it's amazing to see the production.
• 33:53
  Yeah, the triple distilled and then warmed up.
• 33:56
  So, so weird, but also brilliant.
• 33:59
  Well, I mean, I think the one thing, one thing, one thing that
• 34:01
  if you think about it, they were trying to produce a whiskey to
• 34:04
  sell to blenders that was different.
• 34:06
  Yeah. So they wanted something that
• 34:08
  was going to hang around. So maybe it's not so silly if
• 34:12
  you think. Yeah, in terms of the worm tubs
• 34:14
  give you that bit more weight. And that's why it was that top
• 34:17
  dresser whiskey and these, you know, used in much smaller
• 34:19
  quantities than other filler malts or whatever.
• 34:22
  Sure. The sprinkling on the top.
• 34:23
  And that's maybe why. And it was just to do something
• 34:26
  different. Something we said in the tour,
• 34:27
  especially if the decision was closed Rose Bank or closed Bank
• 34:30
  Kenchi, the roadrank was much more distinctive and exciting in
• 34:33
  terms of the spirit clearly going country, which is easier
• 34:35
  to scale up it. Probably looked a bit more like
• 34:40
  a whiskey distillery, you know what I mean?
• 34:41
  Yeah, it was never. It's beautiful now, but it was
• 34:44
  never a beautiful, particularly beautiful whiskey.
• 34:46
  I'm going. To ask about, sorry, I'm going
• 34:48
  to ask about the Rose Bank. There's a question we asked on
• 34:50
  the tour. So one of our previous guests
• 34:53
  very recently Craig Johnson who had worked as a master blender
• 34:57
  at the for for Famous Grouse, Famous Grouse and things like
• 35:01
  that, McAllen agent and etcetera do.
• 35:03
  Something with the Australian. Whiskey.
• 35:05
  Yes, that's right. Yeah.
• 35:05
  So he was. Around to the office.
• 35:07
  In the Lucas, yeah, he talked about, which really opened my
• 35:11
  eyes was as a blender. You know, they don't have a
• 35:15
  recipe of X amount of this distillery, X amount of that
• 35:19
  distillery. It's all done on style, spirit
• 35:22
  style. So what they'll say is they say
• 35:24
  you need a style like this from a bourbon cask.
• 35:27
  You'll get that from one of these because it's all done on
• 35:30
  what product is available at the time, what bulk you can buy at
• 35:34
  that time. And God's already mentioned
• 35:36
  about how, you know, the business model for Ian McCoy
• 35:38
  distilleries isn't just distilleries, it's also trading
• 35:40
  bulk and putting bulk into international markets.
• 35:44
  What what, what he talked about was finding different styles
• 35:47
  that hit the front of the tongue, the back of the tongue
• 35:50
  and the palate and what have you.
• 35:51
  What is it Rosebank does? Then what?
• 35:53
  What are we getting? And what Because what did it
• 35:56
  make it so unique to make it so sought after for blenders?
• 36:01
  So yeah, you to be fair, we've I've never tried when it was
• 36:07
  young, Yeah, then obviously. So I don't really know.
• 36:09
  I haven't actually tried really. I've tried a couple bottles of
• 36:11
  flora and faunas. Yeah, but to say they're
• 36:13
  inconsistent is an understanding.
• 36:16
  So I'm not sure there's a bag. Of Skittles, yeah, I'm not sure
• 36:19
  that's. Somewhere peating somewhere
• 36:21
  like, you know, okay, so you're probably wanting, you're
• 36:26
  bringing essentially all the weight that you get from the
• 36:29
  worm tubs that you want, right? But you're getting all the light
• 36:32
  into the spirit. And that's what sounds so weird
• 36:34
  because it's that juxtaposition, right?
• 36:36
  And that's what makes it such kind of a complicated spirit to
• 36:38
  really understand. But it's like you get all of the
• 36:42
  light stripped back nature, but then you keep all the thick
• 36:45
  heaviness. Now actually, on paper, that
• 36:46
  sounds pretty ranked. Yeah, we just tried the new
• 36:48
  mixed spirit and I said everything I know about triple
• 36:51
  it is X and what I'm chewing and tasting here is pure texture
• 36:56
  from the one test. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:57
  Well, one of the things he said about was he.
• 36:59
  But it helps strip off the sulfur, which is usually what
• 37:01
  you'd be left with right after, you know, a double distillation.
• 37:04
  But does that mean you're sulfur?
• 37:06
  He's sulfur sensitive. Well, that's from a blenders
• 37:10
  because one of the things Craig mentioned was he talked about
• 37:12
  how Highland Park right, was such a good spirit to use for a
• 37:18
  blend because it's one of the few that would with the smoke on
• 37:22
  it as well. But he said it's one of the few
• 37:24
  that hits the front of the tongue and the back of the
• 37:25
  tongue. But he said that it's a
• 37:27
  nightmare as well. It's a great thing for blenders
• 37:29
  if they can get hold of it because it but he said it's a
• 37:31
  nightmare for blenders to use because if you can't get hold of
• 37:33
  it, you need two different whiskeys to fill to fill that
• 37:37
  same void that that's not going to be.
• 37:38
  Would that be the same as Rosebank or was Rosebank?
• 37:41
  Could it have been rose back was just that great one where it's
• 37:44
  like it does everything you need to say it needs to do and it and
• 37:47
  it can be easily sought after to to be replicated.
• 37:50
  You know, that would be an experiment.
• 37:52
  I'd have to try to be honest with you.
• 37:55
  Could you get the same texture of two different ones perhaps.
• 37:58
  But I honestly think if you, as soon as you start introducing
• 38:00
  those worm tubs, that is such a unique spirit type and it's so
• 38:03
  heavy and meaty, and that's what I mean.
• 38:05
  And when you just have the worm tubs, you introduce a lot of
• 38:08
  sulfur. But when you have that triple
• 38:11
  isolation, you're actually taking the sulfur out but
• 38:12
  keeping all the weight. So I think if you're combining 2
• 38:16
  together, if you take anything with a worm tub, there's sulfur
• 38:19
  and you're not getting rid of the sulfur.
• 38:20
  And that's sticking there for a reason.
• 38:22
  So I would say actually, no, you know.
• 38:25
  There we go. And, and, and Malcolm actually
• 38:27
  said to me also you can dial up and dial down the influence of
• 38:29
  worm tubs as well in, in the, in, in the way that they affect
• 38:33
  the spirit a little bit. So that was a really important
• 38:36
  learning from when Malcolm was here who set up the spirit.
• 38:38
  He's now at Lagan Bay. But I think, you know, the way I
• 38:42
  just try and describe it is I talk about from a spirit
• 38:46
  characteristic. If you have at one end, you
• 38:49
  know, if you look at Scotch, Scotch whiskey and you have at
• 38:51
  one end, technically the most peated spirit is no optimal.
• 38:58
  Yeah, exactly. Optimal one technically at one
• 39:01
  end, which is 300 PPM. The human palate, kind of.
• 39:04
  Exactly. But you know, fine, so we have
• 39:07
  that one in and you have at the other end you have generally
• 39:11
  lowland whiskeys which are lighter.
• 39:12
  Rosebank is right at this end. It is right at this end and
• 39:16
  while technically optimal is very spirit forward because you
• 39:20
  taste that big peat. So is Rosebank really spirit
• 39:23
  forward? So I would say in, and I've said
• 39:26
  this quite a lot, I think Rosebank consistently is the
• 39:29
  most spirit forward non peated whiskey in Scotland.
• 39:31
  Right, OK. And I asked Jake that the
• 39:33
  warehouse asked and I knew the answer of.
• 39:36
  Course it is. Based on his opinion, the answer
• 39:43
  of what do you prefer, Rosebank spirit in bourbon or Sherry?
• 39:47
  And everything I know about Jake, you couldn't say Sherry,
• 39:49
  because the whole point is to highlight the spirit of blows
• 39:52
  back. Yeah, and it's always been that
• 39:55
  way. Even in a flora and fauna it's
• 39:59
  generally spirit forward and so all the casts we have are
• 40:03
  refills so. You know, what were we going to
• 40:07
  try and what are we filling refills here?
• 40:10
  Why have we put in the same stills?
• 40:11
  Because they're the same shape? Because we want to produce a
• 40:13
  vet. It's not going to be identical.
• 40:15
  It's going to be in that area that the worm tubs are probably
• 40:18
  slightly different. But waters changed, Barley's
• 40:20
  changed the way heat stills change.
• 40:22
  But there's a reason why we want to do it, because it was such an
• 40:26
  iconic taste. It was people like Michael
• 40:27
  Jackson, the beer writer. Historically, I worked with him
• 40:32
  when I was at Whiskey magazine and I learned more from him in
• 40:34
  three hours than I probably learned from anybody else in
• 40:37
  this industry. And he said, you look at
• 40:40
  something like Rosebank, this is a very totally doesn't reflect
• 40:44
  where it's from, which, you know, a lot of people think of.
• 40:46
  And I call it a little bit, you know, where we are here.
• 40:49
  Falkirk is is an industrial town and center of.
• 40:53
  It's probably not the style of whiskey you would expect to
• 40:55
  produce here, but that's the beauty of whiskey.
• 40:57
  Yeah. Another classic that's similar
• 40:58
  to that, and I love it, is Scapa.
• 41:01
  Right. Yeah.
• 41:02
  Scapa, you would never know it was from Orkney.
• 41:03
  If somebody can't ever know, it would promote me, yeah.
• 41:07
  So, you know, when it comes to the telling the story then
• 41:10
  because that's as a brand ambassador, you know, you're
• 41:13
  telling, you're getting what was it whiskey and mouse?
• 41:16
  Angus yes, Angus, once I ask you in mouth liquid.
• 41:19
  And I guess once famously said on the podcast earlier, a lot of
• 41:23
  pieces of liquid in your mouth, which was which was a phrase it
• 41:27
  used. But but you've got that side.
• 41:29
  But also, I mean, the great thing about Brandon, which is
• 41:31
  the side I love. It's a storytelling, you know,
• 41:34
  getting getting that story. Now you've got you've got this
• 41:37
  story to Rosebank. So the Rose, you know, the still
• 41:40
  that was shut was lost to Scotland.
• 41:42
  You mentioned Michael Jackson, the writer.
• 41:44
  It was him that put in the book. Yeah, well, whose book was it?
• 41:47
  Was it? So so Michael Jackson called it
• 41:50
  a grievous loss. This distillery was closed and
• 41:55
  was very adamant it never should have been closed because he was
• 41:57
  behind the floor and phone arrange a lot of that floor and
• 42:00
  phone arranges. So that was his sort of impact.
• 42:04
  And generally whiskey writers of the day were pretty distraught
• 42:08
  when it shut. Because the other thing that's
• 42:10
  really important to remember is that the reason Rosebank exists
• 42:13
  now is not because of what the owners did with the whiskey.
• 42:17
  It was the independent bottlers, right?
• 42:19
  It was all the independent bottlers, the Gordon Macphails
• 42:21
  and the Duncan Taylors and the the Edward Hours and all of
• 42:25
  these guys were the guys that were bottling Rosebank as a
• 42:27
  single malt. And giving it that reputation.
• 42:29
  And giving. And that's where that reputation
• 42:31
  grew, and that was through that. So you're talking about even
• 42:34
  when the distillery was producing.
• 42:35
  So because obviously like we said, the distilleries story is
• 42:38
  it was mainly used in for selling bulk to to blenders.
• 42:42
  So it wasn't, it wasn't something.
• 42:44
  But then what I have heard is people's, you know, you speak to
• 42:46
  somebody old enough maybe who live locally.
• 42:48
  Yeah, we'd go. I don't see what the big fuss
• 42:50
  about Rosebank was. We used to have bottles in the
• 42:52
  house. It was just a hoose DRAM, you
• 42:53
  know, it was a, it was a, it was a DRAM you had on your it was at
• 42:56
  Rosebank 10 or something that people.
• 42:57
  Used at 12. Was it foreigner?
• 42:59
  Right. But but that, that's the thing
• 43:01
  when it's on your doorstep and it's there, people.
• 43:02
  Don't for sure. But then as soon as it's gone
• 43:04
  now how much of that, you know, obviously the the writers have
• 43:08
  created the, the hype about it, about it being closed.
• 43:11
  But over time that must have seen it, that hype, it probably
• 43:15
  has been forgotten about until the decision was made that it
• 43:17
  was going to be reopened. No for sure, but it's.
• 43:19
  Rampant right up but. There's also that element of
• 43:22
  people knew it was great and there wasn't a lot of it kicking
• 43:24
  around. And, you know, in whiskey, that
• 43:27
  can be very appealing in a market that's buoyant.
• 43:30
  And. And so people were always
• 43:31
  wanting a bit of Rose Bank. So Flora and Fauna was, you
• 43:34
  know, on auction sites for a lot of money because people wanted
• 43:36
  to taste it and enjoy it because it's such a unique style.
• 43:40
  Yeah, but there's no doubt if you look at what we've got here,
• 43:43
  that 32 year old, there is no chance back in the between 1989
• 43:47
  and 1993, they filled casks for this ever to be a 32 year.
• 43:52
  Old. This was never the intent.
• 43:53
  Was never ever intended to be this.
• 43:55
  So for for this to then be as good as this using.
• 44:01
  I mean, as we've already heard, the the oak was pretty
• 44:03
  inconsistent. I don't know how consistent the
• 44:07
  spirit was. You know, there's, you know,
• 44:08
  we've moved on a lot in many ways.
• 44:10
  This was never meant to be a 32 and there will not be another
• 44:12
  Rosebank 32 for effectively 30 years because we are, we are 30
• 44:17
  years away. You know, we've only been
• 44:19
  instilling for two. So that sort of shows you where
• 44:21
  we're at with these whiskeys. And but that is one of the most
• 44:24
  amazing whiskeys, but it never was ever intended.
• 44:27
  It was probably going to be a 567 year old blade going into a
• 44:31
  fight, you know? How hard does that make your job
• 44:32
  then, Jake, when you're getting out when you're because stock
• 44:36
  wise it must be really tricky finding stock re getting got
• 44:40
  back. But at the same time, not every
• 44:42
  piece of stock is going to be good because you're going to
• 44:45
  suddenly go well, that cask was useless when they filled it and
• 44:48
  how long had it maybe been sitting?
• 44:50
  I mean, where did it all go? First of all, where did all
• 44:52
  this? When, when the what year did
• 44:54
  this distillery 93 so 1993. Where did all the rosebank that
• 44:58
  was sitting in casks go? Well, we would have sold most of
• 45:01
  the. Casks.
• 45:02
  So no. Do you have you held most of the
• 45:03
  stock? Did they?
• 45:04
  Yeah. Right.
• 45:05
  So they actually held most of the stock and then when the
• 45:08
  decision. Because bear in mind, although
• 45:10
  they're still very close, they still held the brand, yes, and
• 45:12
  they still did bottlings I. Mean I've got the.
• 45:14
  Rare and whatever. And stuff.
• 45:16
  I've probably had maybe 10 Rose Banks, seven of them Gordon
• 45:18
  Mcbell. Yeah, So they also I.
• 45:21
  Mean that fair share of everything.
• 45:22
  Well, obviously they're maybe the exception to that.
• 45:24
  So, but then so then. So the only people that were
• 45:27
  getting hold of it then would have been independent butlers at
• 45:30
  the time. Were independent butlers still
• 45:32
  getting coldest stock like that or was it just literally the
• 45:34
  agile shut it all in it's? When it closes, the value is
• 45:38
  actually in the stock is there immediately.
• 45:39
  Yeah, but it could also be a very simple thing of of of of
• 45:44
  the diage of the day saying to, to to an independent.
• 45:48
  But you've got some. We'd love some of that.
• 45:50
  You know, it's trade Rose Bank. Oh, we'll have some Rose Bank,
• 45:54
  Yeah. So when you bought the brand,
• 45:56
  yeah, that you buy all the diage.
• 45:58
  Yes. OK, right.
• 45:59
  So they literally were in warehouses all over Scotland.
• 46:02
  They weren't in one way. They were all over the like,
• 46:05
  like I believe, you know, a couple of casts were dropped off
• 46:08
  one day and then another truck comes and drops off another two
• 46:11
  or three. So I mean, it was, it was just
• 46:13
  sort of shows you they were all over the place.
• 46:15
  And then that's probably an element of spreading risk, but
• 46:18
  it's more just the way things develop over time.
• 46:21
  Are you able to disclose? I mean, I don't know to the
• 46:23
  exact number, but how much stock are you guys still sitting on?
• 46:27
  Not much. Not much, right?
• 46:28
  Yeah, because that's so when it comes to that, then of the not
• 46:32
  much. What is not much?
• 46:34
  Well. As you're not much 12 million
• 46:37
  cast, yeah, that's. One question, so they have, they
• 46:40
  have 1989, well we see a 40 year.
• 46:42
  Old. Yeah.
• 46:42
  We asked what the oldest cast was.
• 46:43
  It's 1989. It closed in 1993.
• 46:46
  There's only. Yeah, they're only but, but what
• 46:48
  I mean is like, you know, of all the cast that you have, they're
• 46:50
  not much stock. Yeah, You know, you what do you
• 46:53
  do if you open a cast? Go.
• 46:55
  That's that's useless like or or is it useless or can it be
• 46:59
  solved? Well, you finish some of these
• 47:01
  old. So actually it brings on to
• 47:04
  quitting this point I'd like to talk about with this and it's a
• 47:07
  little bit. It has 100 million questions.
• 47:11
  So when you're saying when you're open casting it, one's a
• 47:13
  different quality. Now it's a little bit of my
• 47:15
  issue and a bit gripe I have when people talk about whiskey
• 47:19
  and they only talk about it in terms of like cask makeup, you
• 47:23
  know, and people just use blanket terms of OK, this is 20%
• 47:25
  share rate percent. Now that's great for just
• 47:27
  getting the point across. But in something like Rosebank,
• 47:30
  it really because on paper this is all just refill hogs heads,
• 47:33
  right? Yeah.
• 47:34
  And that's all you expect. But when you start looking at
• 47:36
  whiskeys that have such complexity, you don't look at
• 47:39
  them on a cask, you know, status basis, you look at them on a
• 47:42
  flavour profile. So like we've sampled everything
• 47:44
  and we've sub categorized into different styles, right?
• 47:46
  So although on paper it's all refill Hogs heads, and you know
• 47:49
  you would if someone came over to you and asked what's the cast
• 47:52
  makeup of that, it's kind of a useless question.
• 47:54
  Yeah, because it doesn't matter. That's all rifle Hogs head.
• 47:56
  Each of them had their own personality and style.
• 47:59
  So it's more about blending those styles within themselves.
• 48:01
  And it's the only little bit of gripe I have with cast makeup.
• 48:05
  So when did when did when did Ian McLeod Distillers officially
• 48:08
  purchase? 2017.
• 48:10
  So, yeah, so even at that. It changed the business.
• 48:12
  You know they've got. Literally in my interview,
• 48:15
  Leonard, when? What do you think of Rosebank?
• 48:19
  Oh, you must have given a good answer.
• 48:21
  But yeah, I mean, yeah, it was October.
• 48:23
  There was that very famous second week in October 2017 when
• 48:28
  so we'd purchased the bit, we'd purchased the the deal was done.
• 48:32
  And I believe that the AJU by sort of president was was was
• 48:37
  keen to just speak to Leonard about could you not launch it
• 48:40
  until this date. And I'll tell you why lenders
• 48:44
  don't don't tell me because I'll tell people.
• 48:48
  So like on the 9th of October, I think it was 2017 or something,
• 48:52
  we heard about Bora and poor Ellen.
• 48:55
  So we off panic meeting because we were oh, we'll just go on
• 48:58
  Tuesday and tell everybody about Tuesday.
• 49:00
  And I got a message from quite a few whiskey writers the one week
• 49:04
  I'm on holiday and the three, three iconic whiskey
• 49:08
  distilleries are coming back. It was quite a quite a week
• 49:11
  that. But yeah, it was that was some
• 49:15
  week. I have to say that was some
• 49:16
  week. But I.
• 49:18
  Sorry 2017 then so you don't get a chance to you don't know what
• 49:22
  you're buying at 2017 when you're buying the stock back,
• 49:25
  you know you're buying the brand of Rosebank and there'll be
• 49:27
  plans rebuild the distillery and start start again from scratch
• 49:30
  you. Don't get the sample of the
• 49:32
  cast, but. This is this is this is where
• 49:34
  this is where being Ian McLeod at the centre of the industry is
• 49:37
  really important because our production director, you're sort
• 49:41
  of Gordon Dr. knows all these people.
• 49:44
  He knows the guys at the ad you and he you know, the deal was
• 49:47
  done. The guys would have said the
• 49:48
  whiskeys. Some it's pretty good.
• 49:50
  You know some it's really good. So, you know, there's, there's,
• 49:54
  there's an understanding there that if you get, you know, all
• 49:57
  dud casks, it's not going to be as simple, you know, it was
• 50:00
  never going to be that. But it is the remaining stock.
• 50:02
  It is what it is. You know, you can only, you can
• 50:05
  only change it. So you can't change it.
• 50:07
  So, so it's sort of was a deal that was done with people that
• 50:10
  we know. They, we know the guys at the ad
• 50:13
  you very well. We know the guys at the ad you
• 50:15
  very well. It's, it's, it's this industry
• 50:17
  is pretty small in that in that area, yeah.
• 50:19
  We always say that 100%. Yeah.
• 50:21
  And then when you look at, so when you look at the distillery
• 50:23
  now, I take it when the distillery plan was in place,
• 50:26
  we're seeing more and more distilleries opening with the
• 50:29
  tourism and visitor centre at the core of the business model
• 50:33
  now. Yeah.
• 50:34
  So that must have been you. You look at it, we're set up the
• 50:37
  the tour that we've had. Yeah, you know, we're in a
• 50:39
  modern. Well, even the location of it,
• 50:41
  halfway between it. Was half an hour ago.
• 50:43
  Yeah, yeah. That's a really, absolutely that
• 50:46
  is the case. And then you look at something
• 50:47
  like Tam do and it's not the case.
• 50:49
  Yeah. And that's why we do what we do
• 50:51
  here at Tamdu. But that, you know, Tamdu is a
• 50:54
  very different animal because Tamdu is is, is, I mean, when
• 50:57
  when distillery lukes were given out.
• 50:59
  Tamdu is on a Friday, but. I'm I'm glad you said that
• 51:03
  because famously and he feels terrible about it and I want to
• 51:07
  shout him out, Fraser Sudis, because he.
• 51:09
  Wants worst, Guests worst. Guests we've.
• 51:11
  Ever had one of the worst guests we've ever had this podcast he
• 51:14
  listens every week, but he we've wound him up wound him up wound
• 51:17
  him up because very early on in this podcast he he mentioned Tam
• 51:20
  do and he said what the what the distillery looks like and that
• 51:24
  was only about episode 8 and I remember thinking Christ, we
• 51:27
  nearly got to 10 episodes before somebody said you can't speak
• 51:30
  about distillers like that, but he.
• 51:33
  Said that Tam Do was a shit. That's what he said it's quite
• 51:38
  hard. And then spoke about tasting a
• 51:40
  60 year old casket. How interesting.
• 51:43
  We love that, I mean, but, he said.
• 51:44
  And the story is the, you know, the workhorse versus when it was
• 51:50
  Edgington and you had the show podium in McAllen and the
• 51:53
  workhorse in Shandu. So we've.
• 51:54
  Already said, but it was meant to be.
• 51:57
  Look, it is not pretty if I'm honest.
• 51:59
  The location is stunning, yes. But if you want to have a
• 52:01
  beautiful, beautiful distillery and go and have a look at a
• 52:04
  traditional, there's no beautiful Scotch whiskey
• 52:05
  distillery, go to Glengoyne or you know, take that box or come
• 52:09
  here and see a beautiful combination of old and new.
• 52:12
  If you are lucky enough to go on a tour at Tandu during this,
• 52:15
  during the Space Side Whiskey festival, you'll get to look at
• 52:20
  an avocado mill room. Nice slightly old avocado mill
• 52:26
  room. Like guacamole.
• 52:28
  That's like guacamole. Bathroom.
• 52:30
  Yeah, yeah, guacamole that's been sitting out for two days,
• 52:33
  Yeah. And you get to see the warts and
• 52:37
  all for want of a better phrase. And it look, it's it's it was
• 52:40
  bought for two reasons. Dandy.
• 52:41
  It was bought to create the brand that we have, which is
• 52:43
  fabulous. But it was also bought to supply
• 52:45
  that boat because Glengoyne was 1,000,000 litres.
• 52:47
  It's 4 million litres. So, you know, it was bought for
• 52:50
  two, two reasons and it was bought.
• 52:52
  We got a very good yeah. Well, I mean, when you there's
• 52:57
  something like we spoke to Christopher Coats and you know,
• 53:00
  he he said that and it's true. The more I think about what
• 53:04
  we've been doing with the podcast, the more that you want
• 53:08
  to see something like that because it's you go as a as a
• 53:10
  tourist, as a visitor, and there's nothing wrong with it.
• 53:13
  And this is a classic example. It's a shiny visitor ready
• 53:17
  distillery. You it.
• 53:18
  Looks tremendous. You know, you know, what I'd say
• 53:22
  about Rosebank against maybe other distilleries I've visited
• 53:27
  is you've got the space and the area to actually look at
• 53:30
  everything. It's set up for viewing.
• 53:33
  As of wait till we get to Glen going, there's no space.
• 53:36
  As you're talking about. Glen going you kind of watch out
• 53:38
  for the hot pie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:40
  But that's what like when we went to Glenn Farquis a couple
• 53:42
  of weeks ago, I guess it was out of production.
• 53:44
  And when we were getting taken around and the highlight for us
• 53:47
  of the tour was the fact that we couldn't get into the still room
• 53:49
  the normal way. So we had to go underneath the
• 53:51
  stills and we got this. And it was like dark floors.
• 53:53
  Yeah, you know, wood fired and they're going under the skill
• 53:56
  and they're going like that, that.
• 53:58
  And there was American people saying, is this is this good?
• 54:01
  And I'm sort of trying to explain to the Americans like
• 54:04
  this is probably something you never ever get a chance to see
• 54:06
  because you're walking under. You see where you're fine.
• 54:08
  You see up there, you're like, totally.
• 54:09
  This is wild. But that's I think that's what
• 54:11
  makes Tam the the romance of Tam do.
• 54:13
  Yeah. It's that dirty best working
• 54:16
  hard. It's obviously.
• 54:16
  One of the best shows I've ever done.
• 54:17
  Because that's what it was. Yeah.
• 54:19
  And I worked in whiskey and then getting Sandy McIntyre walking
• 54:22
  around talking about the energy bills and then I'll tell you all
• 54:26
  here. And then tapping casks and the
• 54:28
  Tam do warehouses. Yeah, it's.
• 54:30
  If somebody was round those Red houses sweeping up for tourists
• 54:33
  to come round, it wouldn't be what it is.
• 54:35
  They've got Dalby Alley train station to do something really
• 54:38
  special and you do that every. No, we do.
• 54:41
  And it's the only two days it's open.
• 54:42
  And you know, a lot of people say why do you not open it?
• 54:45
  And we're like, well, if I'm honest, if you want to learn
• 54:48
  about how malted barley, water and yeast combined together in
• 54:52
  all the processes, there's plenty of brilliant distilleries
• 54:55
  up there who will tell you that. Yeah, I think Tamdu's position
• 54:58
  is to actually probably talk a lot more about cherry casks and
• 55:02
  give you that experience a bit like what you can get here.
• 55:04
  Yeah, well, this is. It I can't remember that.
• 55:07
  You what? What you can't get at TAMDU?
• 55:09
  You. Can get.
• 55:10
  Rosebud, you've got the Tamdu experience.
• 55:12
  Ross has done that. Brilliant.
• 55:13
  You know, you can come in and it's a Tamdu residency.
• 55:17
  Tamdu Residency. You can come in, blend your you
• 55:19
  get to blind your own you and. Your dad forecast samples.
• 55:23
  Make your own TAMDU. You've got to sign up to TAMDU.
• 55:25
  It's on their website. What's it called?
• 55:26
  It's Tamdu Society or something. Yeah, I've been a member of this
• 55:30
  thing since. Dedication is.
• 55:32
  Dedication society and you get early access and you get in the
• 55:36
  know and when they're doing these stuff.
• 55:37
  The Space and Listening festival.
• 55:39
  I've had so much value for being in this emailing list.
• 55:42
  Which I'm doing. I mean, even simply, if you want
• 55:44
  to get a Dalby Alley, that's the way you do it.
• 55:45
  That's the only way to yeah, but.
• 55:47
  But Jay, do you find it weird that people pay to do your job?
• 55:53
  Although but you see the same thing at like I always find it
• 55:55
  so funny. Do you know Spring Bank do like
• 55:57
  the distiller for a day? Yeah, and people pay like
• 55:59
  hundreds of. Pounds ton them all to.
• 56:01
  For someone just basically to oversee them, be like, great,
• 56:03
  you're doing my job. Yeah, we're gaining, yeah.
• 56:06
  We are actually looking at doing that for a Whiskey stories
• 56:08
  podcast. If anyone liked the he has to
• 56:10
  come along and interview somebody else.
• 56:12
  But the great thing is that you don't have to worry to go all
• 56:16
  the way up to time do on the two days during spirit space and
• 56:20
  festival where you could do it. It's.
• 56:21
  Really hard, just people get disappointed because they don't
• 56:23
  get a ticket. Yeah.
• 56:24
  So you can come here. 110 lbs. It's brilliant.
• 56:27
  Yeah, I've done, I've done premium tours all over Scotland.
• 56:30
  A. 110 lbs. But you can get 15%.
• 56:33
  Off that's right, WSPWSP 15, the Whiskey Stories podcast, 15%
• 56:37
  discount. We've been, well only we've been
• 56:39
  treated to this. But As for our listeners are
• 56:41
  going to have 15% discount on, on Ian McLeod on their Rosebank
• 56:44
  tours with the exception of the really pricey one which we're
• 56:47
  getting, I'm not going to tell. You, but you go home with ACL of
• 56:51
  your own whiskey. Exactly.
• 56:52
  You don't. You come you.
• 56:53
  I don't know when I'm going to open it.
• 56:54
  Almost need a reason to open. And the other thing is we've got
• 56:57
  it, yes, we've got it is the only hand filled Tam do in
• 57:00
  Scotland you can get hold. Of correct just.
• 57:03
  Become available. I've been adding water to it.
• 57:05
  55%. Of time.
• 57:06
  It's like sweet fudge. It is.
• 57:08
  So what's that? A 10 year old?
• 57:10
  A 10 year old? 25th, Yeah. 10 year old. 10
• 57:12
  years old, 95 Look at the colour of that.
• 57:14
  Cracking me And of course you discontinued your 10 year old.
• 57:18
  Moved it to 12, yeah. So this is and we now have a
• 57:21
  12A15, an 18 and a 21, yeah. 21's A.
• 57:23
  Crap and we have the Dalby alley, which is really popular
• 57:26
  in the bat strength and the single cast and Garmo cigar mole
• 57:30
  is amazing yeah So what I love about Tam do is some people
• 57:34
  think Sherry casts are all a bit you know they're just one that
• 57:37
  they're so not that when you use American oak and well that's the
• 57:40
  the the quirk is Alba dedicate. Yeah, brilliant not dedication
• 57:45
  distinction. Sorry.
• 57:47
  It's fabulous as well. So one of the four.
• 57:48
  Samples you do in the residency here, it's quite smoky.
• 57:51
  Yeah, I know that Tandu's three PPM learned that from Mike on
• 57:55
  the podcast, but one of them is really quite smoky.
• 57:59
  I didn't use it in my because I also feel like I've been force
• 58:03
  fed Tandu. My father is probably Tandu's
• 58:05
  biggest fan on air. Yeah, as I was forced red Tam do
• 58:08
  from the age 18. That's it.
• 58:09
  All right for me. I totally agree with you.
• 58:11
  It's a great portfolio of whiskey you have now considering
• 58:14
  what it was in 20. 17 yeah so so if you actually look at it now
• 58:18
  and you look at our portfolio and you look at them and you
• 58:20
  sort of do the elevator pitch for them all you would go Glen
• 58:23
  going slowly to still great casks fruity, you know wide
• 58:27
  variety of flavour. Yeah, White Oak has proven that
• 58:30
  lighter side people love the high Sherry contents of the 25
• 58:33
  and 30 Tandy 100% fully matured start to finish in all or also
• 58:38
  Sherry cast. Nobody else does that in this
• 58:40
  industry 100% of the time. Then you have Rosebank.
• 58:43
  Totally the opposite. Not about the cask at all about
• 58:47
  the spirit. Being.
• 58:47
  Forward and the you know refill casks and showcasing that spirit
• 58:52
  and being probably arguably the most spirit lead whiskey then
• 58:55
  you'll have a height heavily pitted on Isla.
• 58:57
  You have smokehead doing its mad thing that it does and is really
• 59:01
  popular around the world and and particularly in America and
• 59:03
  Europe now and the UK and then then we'll have a single walk
• 59:07
  from India. Watch out Paul, John and all
• 59:09
  those other and all the rest at. The time.
• 59:11
  Of the podcast. Yeah, we are getting to that
• 59:13
  time where we ask our guests for their Walk 3 dramas.
• 59:16
  Have you given Jacob bonus one because he's come back?
• 59:19
  You can stick one in as well, right?
• 59:21
  So Gordon, I'll come to you. What are your from your career?
• 59:26
  So basically it's any 3 drams, any 3 whiskies that have a sort
• 59:30
  of meaning, a story or some sort of association to you.
• 59:34
  Well, I think I have to go for the first whiskey I ever had,
• 59:37
  which was not maybe what you would think, but it was at
• 59:40
  university and a guy, I'd had a few drinks and this friend of
• 59:45
  mine who lives in Victoria in Australia now, gave me a Glenn
• 59:51
  Fartless 105. And I was like, and I tasted it.
• 59:56
  I was like, oh, that's quite punchy was my initial reaction.
• 1:00:00
  And he added a bit of water to it.
• 1:00:02
  I mean, I added it, but he told me to add a bit of water and I
• 1:00:05
  drank it. And the difference between the
• 1:00:07
  two experiences was like, this stuff's amazing.
• 1:00:11
  This whiskey thing, you know, I was probably 18 at the time.
• 1:00:15
  I was like this, really weirdly different.
• 1:00:17
  And I didn't jump into whiskey from that point onwards, but I
• 1:00:20
  started to get a liking for it and an understanding of what
• 1:00:23
  whiskey was about and regions and all of that.
• 1:00:26
  And then as you, as we heard earlier, I sort of fell into it
• 1:00:30
  as it were in 2003 because I had a, you know, a passion for it.
• 1:00:34
  I'd been to Glengoine, I'd been to Isla and I was excited by,
• 1:00:39
  and that's, so it was my gateway drama.
• 1:00:41
  It's not maybe what most people would think, but that was,
• 1:00:44
  that's probably one of them. I think probably I, I'm like I,
• 1:00:49
  I, I'll tell people I'm I'm a, I'm a fan of age boom or because
• 1:00:53
  I worked for boom or, and I'm a fan of age boom or because it
• 1:00:56
  goes so tropical like Glengoine does.
• 1:00:59
  It goes so tropical. It's like, it's like, do you
• 1:01:03
  remember Mbungo? Yes.
• 1:01:06
  It's like mbunga. You may not know what mbungo.
• 1:01:09
  Is you don't know how mungo is, what is that?
• 1:01:13
  They drink it in the Congo. They drink it in the Congo.
• 1:01:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just tropical exotic fruits and
• 1:01:19
  age, but more by that point has got the smoke's pretty much gone
• 1:01:24
  this trop and we're not we're not talking 4050 years old,
• 1:01:27
  we're talking 25 plus. I had a literally last night I
• 1:01:30
  had a 2006 or more in personal bourbon instead.
• 1:01:33
  It's really. Amazing.
• 1:01:36
  And it went through that odd phase of having that sort of
• 1:01:40
  FWP, as it was called Palma Violet stage.
• 1:01:44
  Some people liked, I didn't particularly like, but you know,
• 1:01:47
  I had a so I had a refill bourbon.
• 1:01:50
  It was a fill your own from Beaumont when I was working
• 1:01:52
  there. It wasn't even that old.
• 1:01:54
  It was maybe 19 years old, sensational, utterly
• 1:01:58
  sensational. And the other whiskey that I
• 1:01:59
  wouldn't was a bourbon cask we did in Germany for Glen going
• 1:02:03
  first time. I'd really drunk Glen going full
• 1:02:05
  and that was amazing as well. Very similar style, even though
• 1:02:09
  there's a hint of smokiness. So so that sort of boom or and,
• 1:02:14
  and for me, just because I think it's so brilliant and it's not
• 1:02:21
  and it's really well priced and it's just fantastic whiskey and
• 1:02:24
  they've all been a little bit different is the Dalby Alley
• 1:02:27
  Drum. Dalby Alley, yeah.
• 1:02:29
  I love the Dalby Alley drama because it's 60 odd percent
• 1:02:32
  alcohol. It's all first fill.
• 1:02:35
  It's basically for I call it and I like the teapot as well.
• 1:02:38
  It's it's the teapot for Tandy. It's it's effectively.
• 1:02:41
  That remember getting Dalby Alley one think I'll still call
• 1:02:44
  probably calling it Dalbyly, but that because nobody explained
• 1:02:48
  Dalby train station. It's the first lease and I got I
• 1:02:52
  think I got that. How long ago was that?
• 1:02:54
  Six years ago. At 8:00. 8. 7/7. 7:00 So I was
• 1:02:58
  19 and I, I think that was probably the first good whiskey
• 1:03:01
  I bought my father for his Christmas and he bought me a
• 1:03:03
  glidronic allardice and we opened up the Dalby Alley and
• 1:03:07
  the allardice and gave them serious doings on Christmas.
• 1:03:11
  Day I was going to say Christmas at the bar.
• 1:03:14
  It's not a bad place, but honestly, Dalby Alley now, and
• 1:03:16
  This is why I've signed up to the dedication society.
• 1:03:19
  I have to have to. I have to try it every year.
• 1:03:21
  Kept from the diggers normally gets it in.
• 1:03:24
  Yeah, when you when Glenn? Well, Glenn Farkas was one of
• 1:03:28
  your what, 3 drams originally. So it's a gateway whiskey for a
• 1:03:32
  lot of people. But my insane was a 105 not an
• 1:03:34
  accidental production by Glenn Farkas, was it not?
• 1:03:38
  Did they not tell us it was something to do with the all the
• 1:03:41
  staff got it for a Christmas gift or something?
• 1:03:44
  It's, I've heard that sort of accidental story.
• 1:03:47
  The other classic accidental story is that Akin Tosh and
• 1:03:50
  Three Wood, right? Was it a complete accident,
• 1:03:52
  really? Oh, really?
• 1:03:53
  Yeah. Whiskey I.
• 1:03:54
  Just stuff put in the wrong cast.
• 1:03:56
  I mean a batting yeah problem. Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 1:03:59
  And and and and there's a whiskey that is if you talk
• 1:04:03
  about and I heard you talk about this on a on one of your films
• 1:04:05
  that I can't remember where you were, but you were talking
• 1:04:07
  about. Well, you know, a lot of people
• 1:04:09
  go, oh, it's, it's, it's 70% cask influence or what?
• 1:04:12
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 1:04:14
  And I'm like, there's a whiskey that's big casket foods.
• 1:04:17
  Yeah, as but but it that was another mistake.
• 1:04:21
  I remember. I can't exactly remember the
• 1:04:23
  story, but it was like putting the wrong cask and Oh my God,
• 1:04:25
  what have we done? They tasted it.
• 1:04:26
  They went. Ah, it's OK, it's all right.
• 1:04:27
  Well, it's a bit like, well, Friday night.
• 1:04:30
  Well, as we're recording this last week, yeah, the most the
• 1:04:32
  episode that were the Thompson brothers was a TBBSW, an
• 1:04:36
  accidental vatting of 20,000 litres, which we can't say what
• 1:04:39
  happened. No, no, we have no idea.
• 1:04:46
  We want to save. The idea to be fair.
• 1:04:47
  Sorry, I don't need. To if you want to find out, I
• 1:04:50
  mean, Simon alludes to it pretty heavily in the podcast, so you
• 1:04:53
  can watch that product or list that already.
• 1:04:55
  But yeah, but it does happen these these little axis, but I
• 1:04:58
  mean, three fantastic drams. Jake, you've got the bonus DRAM.
• 1:05:02
  One more so I'd say right you'll Ross you'll you'll flag me up on
• 1:05:08
  this because ever since I've started working in blending, I
• 1:05:12
  probably judge whiskey quite differently.
• 1:05:13
  As if he's ever bought me a drum.
• 1:05:15
  I'd. Buy.
• 1:05:16
  I'd buy you a beer, but I wouldn't buy you a whiskey.
• 1:05:18
  Yeah, it's not fun to take. Whiskey and because of that
• 1:05:22
  reason, usually nowadays if I'm out, I'll I'll just go for a
• 1:05:26
  grouse to be honest with you, because it's something I can sit
• 1:05:28
  back and not really think about. But if someone gets me a malt,
• 1:05:31
  especially if they pay money for it, I feel like I need to
• 1:05:32
  analyse it. I know that I feel like I judge
• 1:05:34
  it too much, but because that I split my sort of whiskey life
• 1:05:39
  into pre and post blending. And I remember when I was really
• 1:05:43
  first getting into whiskey and I had like a few Eureka moments
• 1:05:46
  with a few, you know, And ever since I got into blending, I
• 1:05:49
  look at whiskey completely differently.
• 1:05:51
  I've never so yeah, play different scale.
• 1:05:54
  I was in a pub with someone and I went up and got this.
• 1:05:58
  I got 2 drums and I brought them back down and I smelt my 1 and I
• 1:06:02
  was OK, fine. That's what I expected.
• 1:06:03
  I smelt there. I'm so I didn't get it for
• 1:06:07
  myself and I finished the bottle of that as well and I was like,
• 1:06:10
  this is the first whiskey I've smelt since getting into this
• 1:06:12
  job where I was like, this is everything I want.
• 1:06:16
  And it it was clingy 14. Yeah, finally 14.
• 1:06:20
  Finally 14. Do you know that that that's
• 1:06:22
  been nice. Come up Ally.
• 1:06:23
  Ally Reynolds. Great.
• 1:06:25
  Yeah. Had it last night.
• 1:06:26
  I had it last night. It's a great whiskey experience.
• 1:06:28
  Yeah. It's come up 7.50 at the Johnny
• 1:06:30
  Walker experience. It was I, but look I guess tell
• 1:06:34
  me something you've learnt today on our Rose Bag tour.
• 1:06:37
  Oh well, I've learnt how to sugar a box.
• 1:06:40
  Yeah, that's what I would say. 2 minutes.
• 1:06:43
  I didn't realise it would. I didn't.
• 1:06:46
  Think they were having me on either.
• 1:06:48
  Not what we could do. That is we should have got one
• 1:06:49
  of those Hulu around your waist. Absolutely.
• 1:06:52
  Yeah, I could have at least got. But yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:55
  Ross, tell me something about the Rose Bag Distillery that
• 1:06:58
  you've, you've you've learnt today.
• 1:07:01
  Honestly, the justification for that third still which still
• 1:07:03
  makes no idea in my head I'm impressed by and I would say I
• 1:07:08
  didn't know the worm tubs were all different.
• 1:07:11
  Oh yeah. Again, that just doesn't make
• 1:07:14
  sense in my head, but the product and the result answers
• 1:07:17
  any question I could have. I remember when the when the
• 1:07:20
  stills were coming in through the roof 3 odd years ago and we
• 1:07:24
  were like, is this ever going to be finished type position and
• 1:07:27
  I'm standing there with Malcolm and my hard hat on going.
• 1:07:30
  That's quite impressive. The road was shut Crane all this
• 1:07:34
  and I said Malcolm, are they in the right order?
• 1:07:39
  Because I thought I would have thought that the tall one would
• 1:07:42
  be at the end and the short one would be in the middle.
• 1:07:45
  And Malcolm turns around to me and went yeah, I thought that
• 1:07:48
  too. But it is what it but it is what
• 1:07:52
  it is. But.
• 1:07:53
  Lane Arm is just you're sad about whiskey, which I am.
• 1:07:57
  That's bonkers. That's one of the Seven Wonders
• 1:08:00
  of Scotch. Whiskey well it's probably just
• 1:08:01
  cut off because of didn't fit in the old distillery.
• 1:08:04
  But the other thing is that's where that tall still in the
• 1:08:07
  middle where Malcolm's done or Malcolm did all the work in
• 1:08:09
  terms of getting the spirit to work because that's the real
• 1:08:11
  flavour to find it that really tall one.
• 1:08:13
  But yeah, yeah, it's, it's an incredible setup, but very odd
• 1:08:17
  still. Still, you go weird, you know a.
• 1:08:19
  100% gentlemen, where can people find you and contact you?
• 1:08:22
  I have. That.
• 1:08:25
  Sorry, sorry, what have you learned?
• 1:08:29
  Graham, I wanted to tell you what I've learned.
• 1:08:31
  What have you learned today? I've learned that you can try 31
• 1:08:35
  year old Rosebank. Yes for £50 and get a tour that
• 1:08:41
  a 2 year old Rosebank. Well, whatever, 30 + 30. 2 year
• 1:08:44
  old Rosebank. Yeah, for £50 on the tour, but
• 1:08:47
  better still, as I said, you're at 50%.
• 1:08:52
  To bargain, what you can do is how much is the saving of that
• 1:08:54
  from the drama that you're getting if you went to the
• 1:08:56
  Scotch and the Balmoral. Thank you very much as well.
• 1:09:07
  Thank you. Well, like I say, you're
• 1:09:09
  getting, I can't stress enough. We jumped on the train this
• 1:09:11
  morning. We got the 838 or 836 tree,
• 1:09:14
  whatever it was from Haymarket. We were here by 9:10.
• 1:09:17
  Jake does. Focus straight.
• 1:09:19
  Yeah, Jake does a shuttle service.
• 1:09:21
  Jake. When he's not nosing whiskies
• 1:09:23
  and tasting them in Broxburn, he's driving people to and from
• 1:09:26
  the distillery to the train station at Caimlin.
• 1:09:28
  We got we were welcomed here. It's great.
• 1:09:30
  There's so much to do The shop. I would say I'm wearing my
• 1:09:34
  Rosebank. Very, very nice.
• 1:09:36
  It's going to be added to the get Rosebank socks.
• 1:09:38
  Yeah, yes. You can get Rosebank socks I've.
• 1:09:42
  Never seen socks in a whiskey distillery shop.
• 1:09:44
  Before. Yeah, the shop is quite
• 1:09:46
  spectacular. You get socks and everything,
• 1:09:48
  but quality of T-shirt. I'm going to write this T-shirt.
• 1:09:51
  Yeah, you. Can also get whiskey.
• 1:09:53
  You get whiskey as well, but like, well, you can.
• 1:09:55
  Get and you can get new make. Yes, new make there as well.
• 1:09:59
  You can buy a new make. But the time do handful as well.
• 1:10:02
  I mean, there's you know, the the trip here.
• 1:10:05
  It's it's worth coming to Falkirk for I'd say absolutely
• 1:10:08
  yeah. I mean, it's, it's been great
• 1:10:09
  fun and we've this is only we're, we're only halfway
• 1:10:12
  through the day because we've got to hot foot it to.
• 1:10:15
  Really try some mate. Yeah, we've.
• 1:10:17
  Got hot foot into Glenn going but we're getting to do a Glenn
• 1:10:18
  going tour and and episode 2 with Gordon to death.
• 1:10:22
  Absolutely got to love the Taiwan story.
• 1:10:29
  There's there's lots of them. Yeah, the Taiwan Diaries with
• 1:10:32
  Gordon and that one behind a paywall.
• 1:10:36
  Anyway, guys, listen, thank you very much for listening to the
• 1:10:38
  Whiskey Stories podcast. It's great.
• 1:10:39
  Don't forget WSP 15 and you will get 15% discount on most of the
• 1:10:46
  tours at that at the Rosebank Distillery.
• 1:10:48
  We'll put this up in the post. You'll be able to find out more
• 1:10:51
  on the on our like tree and stuff like that.
• 1:10:52
  We'll get, we'll get stuff out there, get on the Facebook group
• 1:10:55
  as well. Weekend drama roll call.
• 1:10:57
  It's Friday as we are recording this.
• 1:10:58
  It's too early to open the weekend DRAM roll call, but
• 1:11:01
  Ross, stand up and turn around and show the camera your new
• 1:11:04
  whiskey story, your new Whiskey stories T-shirt weekend drama
• 1:11:09
  there. We've got T-shirts available and
• 1:11:13
  mostly large sizes. To be honest, I did overdo it on
• 1:11:14
  this side. They're large fit on the large
• 1:11:17
  scale. But anyway, look, thank you very
• 1:11:18
  much, Gordon. Thank you.
• 1:11:19
  So much not at. All, thanks for thanks for the
• 1:11:23
  again. It's been great.
• 1:11:24
  Once again. Glad you have time.
• 1:11:26
  Yeah, yeah. How do you How do you get in
• 1:11:27
  touch? With pigeons.
• 1:11:29
  No, I'm on. I'm on Instagram.
• 1:11:32
  I mean, that's probably the easiest way.
• 1:11:34
  Most people do it that way. Instagram G Dundas 1 Brilliant.
• 1:11:39
  Just coming only. 1 only. I'm the I, No, I'm on Facebook.
• 1:11:46
  People can find me on Facebook. So yeah, no, just an event.
• 1:11:48
  Just drop as a message. Anything you want to know?
• 1:11:50
  Yeah. And don't forget guys, if you do
• 1:11:52
  use your, please do it because it helps us prove to them that
• 1:11:56
  these guys it was worth inviting us along.
• 1:11:59
  But if you are use if you use the discount code and you come
• 1:12:03
  to to the Rosebank distilleries, send us a selfie, send us a
• 1:12:06
  picture, send us a wee video, do a do a sniff it, sip it, score
• 1:12:09
  it or something like that, send it back.
• 1:12:11
  Just most importantly, keep passing the pod.
• 1:12:13
  The more that you pass the pod, the more people listen, the more
• 1:12:17
  the easier it is to convince people like Gordon to let us
• 1:12:19
  come. And and not just that, but
• 1:12:21
  convince me that me buying you a lobster lunch was the right.
• 1:12:26
  Absolutely, really well looked after today.
• 1:12:28
  But yeah, jump onto if you can jump onto the the YouTube
• 1:12:31
  channel and subscribe to YouTube.
• 1:12:32
  We're doing more and more YouTube exclusive content, so
• 1:12:35
  get on that. But listen, thank you very much.
• 1:12:36
  Thank you very much for coming along.
• 1:12:38
  Cheers. All the very best.
• 1:12:39
  Cheers. There we go.
• 1:12:43
  TuneIn for the whiskey, lobster and taste thing.
• 1:12:47
  Another 10. Brilliant.
• 1:12:49
  I have got lunch so I can get it.
• 1:12:55
  Golf this weekend? Yeah, sounds.
• 1:12:58
  Good. I had a schedule.
• 1:13:00
  Yeah, we're doing well. We're like an hour ahead so we
• 1:13:04
  can half an hour lunch then. Perfect.
• 1:13:06
  Nice. Really, boys, that was great.
• 1:13:10
  Thank you very much. We're.
• 1:13:11
  Going to get a sorry not sorry one here tell you what.
• 1:13:16
  Else we're on the 32, though I don't know what the 32 is here.
• 1:13:19
  I'm pretty sure we're on the 30. Two, I thought it was the 33 on
• 1:13:21
  the board. That's what I said to him.
• 1:13:22
  It must be the sorry three, OK. Been an absolute like last night
• 1:13:29
  we were there, I was at the actual thing had.
• 1:13:32
  A good week.