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Abortion is a Tech Issue · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is standing and Samantha, I don't Stephane never
0:07
Speaker 1: told your protection of I heart radio. And today we
0:20
Speaker 1: are once again thrilled to be joined by the incomparable, amazing,
0:25
Speaker 1: astounding Bridget Todd are too kind. I'm so happy to
0:30
Speaker 1: be here with you. Even though I feel like sometimes
0:33
Speaker 1: I hang out with y'all in times of rage, it
0:37
Speaker 1: definitely feels like today. Yes, well, there's no one we
0:41
Speaker 1: would rather hang out with in times of rage. I'll
0:45
Speaker 1: kick that as a compliment. Is we want to commiserate
0:49
Speaker 1: and being raged together, I feel like we get things done.
0:52
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sure that's true, but I'm gonna
0:54
Speaker 1: assume that in my head. Yes, And as listeners probably
0:58
Speaker 1: know based on the title and description of this episode,
1:02
Speaker 1: they are talking about abortion and the relation of abortion
1:07
Speaker 1: to technology and row viewade and the devastating news we've
1:10
Speaker 1: gotten recently. And you, Sint had an email, Bridget and
1:14
Speaker 1: you're like, hi, um choosing the topic, and it was
1:17
Speaker 1: just curious if you've already done a bunch of stuff
1:20
Speaker 1: about this already, And to be honest, and I hope
1:23
Speaker 1: that this doesn't like infuriate you, but I was like,
1:26
Speaker 1: I hope Bridget's going to talk about this because you
1:28
Speaker 1: have so much experience, and uh, again, I don't want
1:33
Speaker 1: to put you in a box that will you ever
1:35
Speaker 1: have to feel like you have to talk about these things.
1:37
Speaker 1: But I was like, all, Bridget's gonna come on and
1:40
Speaker 1: she's gonna have so much great information about this through
1:43
Speaker 1: these dark times that will make it feel less dark. Yes,
1:48
Speaker 1: I do not take that as an insult. You know,
1:51
Speaker 1: I have worked most not the entire thing, but most
1:54
Speaker 1: of my adult life in and adjacent to abortion access,
1:58
Speaker 1: and yeah, so it's something that I really hold very dear,
2:02
Speaker 1: and it's something that's been a big part of not
2:05
Speaker 1: just my work, but also my my personal life. Um,
2:07
Speaker 1: it's something that really permeates a lot of my other
2:11
Speaker 1: social and political ideology and values. And so I'm not
2:15
Speaker 1: offended at all. I I was like, I was like,
2:18
Speaker 1: thank goodness, I've got a sminty book to talk about it.
2:21
Speaker 1: But I know that both of you all are based
2:23
Speaker 1: in Georgia, which is a state that is not particularly
2:26
Speaker 1: hospitable to abortion care. So I feel like I have
2:29
Speaker 1: to start by asking, you know, how, how are we
2:32
Speaker 1: doing the loaded question? Yeah, and we want to circle
2:36
Speaker 1: back and hear about how you're doing as well. Bridget
2:39
Speaker 1: We just did a reaction episode hasn't come out yet,
2:44
Speaker 1: but it'll come out soon about how we felt about
2:47
Speaker 1: it when the day it happens, and it it was
2:50
Speaker 1: pretty emotional. Um, I feel like I feel pretty sad
2:55
Speaker 1: and angry and heartbroken and scared and like things feel
2:58
Speaker 1: very uncertain. Um. And the day it was announced, I
3:03
Speaker 1: had a bunch of friends happened to be coming in
3:06
Speaker 1: from out of town to stay with me, and they're
3:09
Speaker 1: all women, and uh, one of them is a nurse,
3:12
Speaker 1: and we just like talked about it and everyone was
3:16
Speaker 1: so scared. I think, yeah, scared was the main thing.
3:20
Speaker 1: And angry, very angry, uh, but yeah, yeah, I mean,
3:27
Speaker 1: it's just it's hard to It's like an emotion inside
3:33
Speaker 1: me that's it just whirling around, and it feels like
3:37
Speaker 1: almost always on the verge of a panic. Yes, that's
3:43
Speaker 1: a good way to say, like it feels like the
3:44
Speaker 1: end of the world for a certain extent of what
3:48
Speaker 1: we're talking about and how we're seeing things in the future.
3:52
Speaker 1: You know. Georgia has been one of those as of late,
3:56
Speaker 1: being UM in the Purple State since with two of
4:00
Speaker 1: our senators being Democrats, which is the first time in
4:04
Speaker 1: history that we've been able to push that, and feeling
4:07
Speaker 1: like everything is on the line right now because of
4:10
Speaker 1: things like what is happening with the Supreme Court, UM,
4:13
Speaker 1: with all of the different rulings that are happening. We're
4:15
Speaker 1: seeing how bad it's gotten and we had to push
4:19
Speaker 1: so hard to get to this point, but it felt
4:21
Speaker 1: it feels almost like we had very little difference UM
4:24
Speaker 1: in the overall impact. And I know that's not true.
4:27
Speaker 1: This is me being a little bit catastrophic about all
4:30
Speaker 1: of this, uh, devastated in the moment and taking a
4:33
Speaker 1: moment to be like, Okay, this is what it is
4:35
Speaker 1: feeling like We've had to fight so hard. And I
4:36
Speaker 1: know actually that's the first time I met you, Bridget,
4:39
Speaker 1: you had actually said that to me about how you
4:41
Speaker 1: had to work so hard to get to to C
4:44
Speaker 1: d C, to get to where it was, and us
4:46
Speaker 1: coming in here and being like, yeah, we get it.
4:48
Speaker 1: This year has been this last few years has been
4:51
Speaker 1: that for us to push so hard and seeing so
4:54
Speaker 1: many good things happen and then coming to this moment
4:56
Speaker 1: of like, oh god, we're back to square one. It
4:58
Speaker 1: feels like and I know it's not true, because it's
5:02
Speaker 1: it should be hopeful, but seeing all these things doesn't
5:04
Speaker 1: always get you motivated, right, And it's one of those
5:08
Speaker 1: things and seeing, Okay, we have Stacy Abrams and we
5:10
Speaker 1: really do want to see her come through. And we've
5:13
Speaker 1: already had one big disappointment and there's a lot of
5:15
Speaker 1: contention in that election and we're coming back to round
5:18
Speaker 1: two and we know that they've already kind of stacked
5:20
Speaker 1: the cards and um, how this is going to play out,
5:23
Speaker 1: But if we can you know, push through, maybe it
5:25
Speaker 1: can happen. Um. Of course, the women of color, the
5:28
Speaker 1: black women here have been fighting so hard and have
5:31
Speaker 1: really pushed us to that victory. Being here and knowing
5:35
Speaker 1: that the impact of what's happening in the Supreme Court
5:37
Speaker 1: impacts what's happening to us so severely, Like there's so
5:40
Speaker 1: many things that just feels overwhelming that the intersectionality of
5:44
Speaker 1: all of the issues, it feels heavy. It feels so heavy.
5:48
Speaker 1: Any and I are trying to find a way to
5:50
Speaker 1: like focus on like, all right, we have to be active,
5:53
Speaker 1: we have to move forward, We have to be advocates.
5:55
Speaker 1: We can't sit in turmoil because we don't have that time. Yeah,
6:00
Speaker 1: I plus plus plus to all of that, And I
6:03
Speaker 1: think it can be hard, because you know, humans are
6:07
Speaker 1: only meant to take so much. Right, It just seems
6:09
Speaker 1: like I saw a tweet that was something to the
6:11
Speaker 1: effect of, like the last few years have been getting
6:15
Speaker 1: the worst news imaginable every day for several months, and
6:19
Speaker 1: I guess that's how it has felt. And you know,
6:22
Speaker 1: the day that we got the news about Row, it
6:24
Speaker 1: was I'm not gonna lie like it was a tough day.
6:26
Speaker 1: I physically got sick to I got sick like I
6:31
Speaker 1: was not expecting it, like I I even though I
6:34
Speaker 1: knew it was coming, and like it wasn't a surprise
6:36
Speaker 1: to me. I was really surprised by how physically difficult
6:40
Speaker 1: I took it. But I think you're exactly right that
6:44
Speaker 1: it's it really takes constant reminders that whatever I have
6:48
Speaker 1: to do to take care of myself so that I'm
6:51
Speaker 1: in this for the long haul, I need to do so,
6:53
Speaker 1: whether it's taking an afternoon to be like, you know,
6:55
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for a walk, I'm not gonna check
6:57
Speaker 1: the news, or I'm gonna do this, or I'm gonna
6:58
Speaker 1: do that, do doing it in service of being able
7:03
Speaker 1: to be here for the long haul because it's it's
7:06
Speaker 1: you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint, right. You know.
7:09
Speaker 1: One of the things that I have a bad habit of,
7:12
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad you're here, is that I take
7:16
Speaker 1: face value to the worst news because at this point
7:19
Speaker 1: I'm just ready and I'm like, yeah, obviously, obviously this
7:22
Speaker 1: is gonna be the worst thing ever. And a lot
7:24
Speaker 1: of this has been disinformation and me like, one of
7:27
Speaker 1: the things that I thought with the trigger band was like, automatically,
7:29
Speaker 1: all thirteen of those days are done, and that's not
7:32
Speaker 1: actually true. And knowing that I have you as one
7:35
Speaker 1: of my list of people with Ultra Violet, like, Okay,
7:37
Speaker 1: they're gonna let me know, calm down, Samantha. You're just
7:41
Speaker 1: get playing it up where it becomes hopeless. So thank
7:45
Speaker 1: you for being here, and please talk me off this ledge.
7:48
Speaker 1: I am happy to. And you know, as I said,
7:51
Speaker 1: I've I've worked most of my life in or around
7:53
Speaker 1: abortion access and protecting it and advocating for it. And
7:56
Speaker 1: it's actually one of the reasons why I started my podcast.
7:59
Speaker 1: There are no girls on the Internet. It's because I
8:01
Speaker 1: started to see how when I was, you know, doing
8:04
Speaker 1: that work. I wasn't really thinking about it necessarily as
8:07
Speaker 1: a quote tech issue. I thought of it as a
8:09
Speaker 1: you know, feminist issue, a women's issue, a health issue,
8:12
Speaker 1: adjustice issue, a human rights issue, all of those things.
8:15
Speaker 1: But I didn't really have the analysis yet of it
8:17
Speaker 1: being a technology issue. And so looking back, I really
8:21
Speaker 1: wish I had really done the work in a way
8:24
Speaker 1: that honored that reality. And you know, I feel like
8:27
Speaker 1: I'm kind of making up for lost time. But you know,
8:29
Speaker 1: I started my podcast because I really saw a pervasive
8:32
Speaker 1: attitude around conversations involving technology and the Internet that pushed
8:37
Speaker 1: women and queer folks and non binary folks and transpeople
8:41
Speaker 1: really out of a conversation and said that the conversation
8:44
Speaker 1: is for white, heterosexual, cis gender men, and that attitude
8:49
Speaker 1: really opened up these big gaps for exploitation and harm.
8:53
Speaker 1: And in fact, we and by we, I mean like women,
8:56
Speaker 1: queer folks, you know, people who are historically marginalized. We
8:59
Speaker 1: are the ones who are definitely more likely to be
9:01
Speaker 1: harmed by technology than straight white men. And so the
9:04
Speaker 1: conversation around abortion, to me, really shows how technology can
9:10
Speaker 1: really when we're not included in the conversation. We're not
9:13
Speaker 1: thinking about it, we're not checked in with what's going
9:15
Speaker 1: on around the internet and technology. It really opens up
9:17
Speaker 1: these avenues per harm And I really wanted to talk
9:20
Speaker 1: about some of the ways that abortion and technology are
9:23
Speaker 1: now intersecting in this post Row world that we're finding
9:26
Speaker 1: ourselves in. Yeah, yeah, because I feel like, um, a
9:31
Speaker 1: lot of the conversations I'm seeing now are about technology. Um,
9:37
Speaker 1: they are about uh, the way our data is collected.
9:42
Speaker 1: I know we're going to talk about that later, the
9:44
Speaker 1: way we can access information or can't access information, and
9:47
Speaker 1: if that information has even correct. And I know you've
9:51
Speaker 1: been on here before and you've talked about, like, yes,
9:53
Speaker 1: the power of misinformation and disinformation, and that has been
9:59
Speaker 1: a huge thing when it comes to abortion and continues
10:02
Speaker 1: to be. Oh yes. So we're seeing a flood of
10:05
Speaker 1: inaccurate and misleading miss and disinformation about abortion, and truly,
10:09
Speaker 1: as soon as the draft Scotus opinion leaked back in
10:13
Speaker 1: May and Politico instantaneously we saw people using social media
10:17
Speaker 1: to spread both miss and disinformation about abortion. Just a reminder,
10:21
Speaker 1: misinformation is inaccurate information that's being spread the person doesn't
10:25
Speaker 1: necessarily know it's inaccurate. They're not doing it on purpose,
10:27
Speaker 1: maybe they think it's true. Disinformation is the purposeful spread
10:31
Speaker 1: of inaccurate or misleading information to cause confusion or chaos
10:35
Speaker 1: or fear. And so immediately people were saying kind of
10:39
Speaker 1: like say, I'm kind of like what you were saying that, like,
10:41
Speaker 1: this means that abortion is illegal starting now this very
10:44
Speaker 1: same day. You know, if you had an appointment, that
10:46
Speaker 1: appointment is now canceled because abortion is now illegal. And
10:49
Speaker 1: that's that was not true. And I believe that, you know,
10:53
Speaker 1: this is maybe being spread by by both anti abortion
10:56
Speaker 1: extremists who are purposefully spreading medical disinformation basically to talk
11:02
Speaker 1: people out of getting abortions. Um. And then that was
11:05
Speaker 1: sort of out in the ether, and so people who
11:07
Speaker 1: just like genuinely didn't know what was going on, who were,
11:10
Speaker 1: you know, maybe feeling scared or anxious or confused. And
11:13
Speaker 1: so obviously when you're in that state, you're just sharing
11:15
Speaker 1: a lot of things and you're not necessarily thinking about it. Um,
11:18
Speaker 1: we're then sort of seizing audit and sharing it too.
11:20
Speaker 1: But it truly goes to show the deep, deep importance
11:24
Speaker 1: of our social media platforms being places where folks have
11:26
Speaker 1: access to reliable and consistent, consistently accurate, timely information to
11:31
Speaker 1: make decisions about their health. Because if you you know,
11:35
Speaker 1: if you log onto Twitter, you know, that's a place
11:37
Speaker 1: where I get my news, It's where I get local information.
11:40
Speaker 1: It's like where I found my local COVID testing places
11:43
Speaker 1: when I was getting tested regularly and all of that.
11:45
Speaker 1: If I log on to Twitter and it's just a
11:47
Speaker 1: flood of information that is just flat out not accurate,
11:51
Speaker 1: and I'm using that to bait to make decisions about
11:54
Speaker 1: my health, as I've done in the past on Twitter. Uh,
11:57
Speaker 1: that's a problem. And so I think it really it
11:58
Speaker 1: really demonstrated, uh, the need to have our platforms. If
12:02
Speaker 1: you plays were accurate, content is really easily accessible. One
12:19
Speaker 1: of the most infuriating things that we saw in the
12:22
Speaker 1: wake of this reversal Rovie Wade, his um people who
12:28
Speaker 1: were trying to redirect the conversation and who were trying
12:34
Speaker 1: to say that it was strange. It was like the
12:38
Speaker 1: most strange gas lighting I've ever seen, because they were
12:41
Speaker 1: trying to celebrate, but they also were like, but it's
12:44
Speaker 1: not banned, though you're reacting and you're being like violent
12:48
Speaker 1: and two months. I mean, honestly, one of the big
12:51
Speaker 1: conversations in which is why I was bringing up the election,
12:54
Speaker 1: is right now we do have our senency and the
12:57
Speaker 1: biggest debate on there is about abortion right now. Anytime
13:00
Speaker 1: might say anything about uh, any of the elections, and
13:04
Speaker 1: the misinformation slash disinformation that is on that feet alone
13:09
Speaker 1: is amazing. And I'm trying to figure out, Okay, I've
13:12
Speaker 1: heard these narratives for so long and it's come back
13:14
Speaker 1: and people are truly pushing this is unreal. Yeah, I
13:20
Speaker 1: mean it when when so I know exactly what you're
13:23
Speaker 1: talking about. I've definitely seen it, and I think it
13:25
Speaker 1: really goes to show when inaccurate or misleading information when
13:30
Speaker 1: it taps into something that is like a base dark
13:33
Speaker 1: thing inside of us. And I say us as I humans,
13:37
Speaker 1: because I'm definitely susceptible to it. I have definitely been,
13:40
Speaker 1: definitely have that that that thing in me triggered. It
13:44
Speaker 1: really catches on, right, And so I see content all
13:47
Speaker 1: the time that is clearly meant. It's like it's like
13:50
Speaker 1: it's written for me. I'm like, oh, well, that hit
13:52
Speaker 1: that stokes all my you know, deeply personal individualistic fears
13:57
Speaker 1: and anxieties. Clearly, this was so for me. Whenever I
14:01
Speaker 1: feel that, I know that it's it's my signal to
14:03
Speaker 1: like take a beat and like don't just give into it.
14:06
Speaker 1: But yeah, inaccurate or misleading information that that speaks to
14:10
Speaker 1: these things inside of us can be so effective. They're
14:14
Speaker 1: so sticky because bad actors and disinformers and people who
14:17
Speaker 1: want to use lies to inflame and divide there they
14:21
Speaker 1: know what they're doing. They're so good at it. Yeah,
14:23
Speaker 1: and you talked about that when you talked about the
14:26
Speaker 1: influence of anti abortion people at the insurrection, uh and
14:32
Speaker 1: the influence they had, and then you gave the you know,
14:37
Speaker 1: like we have document documentation that it's actually the anti
14:42
Speaker 1: abortion people who are the violent ones historically. Yes. Absolutely,
14:48
Speaker 1: I am so glad that you brought that up. So
14:50
Speaker 1: in the wake of the leaked opinion about Row and
14:53
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of Row being overturned, so many anti
14:57
Speaker 1: I call them anti abortion extremis because are out of
15:00
Speaker 1: step with the majority of Americans. And I'll probably say
15:02
Speaker 1: that a hundred more times during this episode. But um,
15:05
Speaker 1: as soon as that went down, they were saying, like, oh,
15:08
Speaker 1: you know, the real conversation is whoever leaked this draft,
15:11
Speaker 1: or the real conversation should be about the fact that
15:13
Speaker 1: somebody wrote in shock outside of a Supreme Court justice's house,
15:16
Speaker 1: like things like that, And the real conversation we should
15:19
Speaker 1: be having is, you know, abortion advocates vandalizing buildings or YadA, YadA, YadA,
15:24
Speaker 1: And that is just an attempt to shift the conversation
15:28
Speaker 1: to distract us, because the reality is anti choice extremists
15:33
Speaker 1: are trying to block abortion access, something that eight of
15:37
Speaker 1: the country is fine with, supportive of, and so if
15:41
Speaker 1: they were to have that conversation about the reality of
15:43
Speaker 1: what they're doing, it would make them look terrible because
15:46
Speaker 1: it's incredibly unpopular and they know this, and so they
15:48
Speaker 1: needed the conversation to be about anything else other than
15:51
Speaker 1: the reality of what they're doing. They need the conversation
15:53
Speaker 1: to be about who was the leaker? Who could it be?
15:56
Speaker 1: It's so horrible, the unprecedented nature all of that. They
15:59
Speaker 1: need the conversation to be about violence on behalf of
16:01
Speaker 1: people who are supportive of abortion, when the reality, you know,
16:05
Speaker 1: here in in the real world, we know that anti
16:09
Speaker 1: abortion extremists, they're the ones who have perpetrated violence against
16:13
Speaker 1: abortion providers and always have. I mean, it's one of
16:16
Speaker 1: those things where it's like, if you think about it
16:18
Speaker 1: for a second, you already know this. You don't need
16:19
Speaker 1: me to tell you this, Right, It's why we have
16:21
Speaker 1: clinic escorts that wouldn't exist if that wasn't the case. Right,
16:24
Speaker 1: And so they really want to flip the narrative, and
16:27
Speaker 1: it's just not true. In the wake of the conversations
16:30
Speaker 1: around Row, we saw anti abortion extremists really trying to
16:32
Speaker 1: own the conversation by repeating this inaccurate, misleading narrative. Um
16:36
Speaker 1: when we know that anti choice extremists have used violence,
16:40
Speaker 1: including the murder of Dr George Tiller, who was murdered
16:42
Speaker 1: while he was in church has place of worship back
16:45
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine. Right, And so it's actually getting worse.
16:48
Speaker 1: According to a new report from National Abortion Freedom, abortion
16:51
Speaker 1: providers in the US, Canada, and Colombia have based significant
16:54
Speaker 1: increases of violence and disruptions to their work in the
16:57
Speaker 1: last year compared to the previous year, including stalking, invasions,
17:00
Speaker 1: assault and battery. Uh. And so, yeah, it's this idea
17:04
Speaker 1: that we are facing a wave of violence from people
17:08
Speaker 1: who are advocates of abortion and their allies, that's just
17:11
Speaker 1: not true. If the reality is what we have already known,
17:14
Speaker 1: is that it's anti abortion extremists who are using violence
17:18
Speaker 1: to express themselves and not the other way around, right.
17:22
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because I just read a Twitter
17:25
Speaker 1: thread where this woman was talking about her experience in
17:29
Speaker 1: having to get an abortion, which was medically necessary, even
17:32
Speaker 1: though this was a planned pregnancy. She really wanted to
17:35
Speaker 1: have a baby and was expecting to carry it the
17:38
Speaker 1: full term, but everything went wrong she had to get
17:41
Speaker 1: an abortion. It was pre like it was during a
17:43
Speaker 1: time where it was really a look down upon and
17:46
Speaker 1: frowned upon, and she had to travel to actually go
17:48
Speaker 1: to Dr Tiller and how she was She was talking
17:52
Speaker 1: about the fact that she had to visit him and
17:54
Speaker 1: when he came out, he had to have a gun
17:56
Speaker 1: on him because he had already been threatened. It was
17:58
Speaker 1: an interesting thread her talking so uh deeply about this
18:02
Speaker 1: personal experience and why she did it and having to
18:04
Speaker 1: go and travel to him to get this done. And
18:08
Speaker 1: then at the end, you know, she goes into them
18:10
Speaker 1: to say that this was the same doctor that got
18:11
Speaker 1: killed at the church. The amount of comments from anti
18:16
Speaker 1: abortion people completely skipped the entirety of the fact that
18:20
Speaker 1: that someone was murdered for doing this service and went
18:23
Speaker 1: to yeah, but this story is not true, because why
18:25
Speaker 1: would you have to go out of state? This story
18:26
Speaker 1: is not like just picking apart her story rather than
18:29
Speaker 1: seeing them and and it was just like, wow, this
18:32
Speaker 1: is the way they are reaching to take apart the
18:35
Speaker 1: violence of that is happening and what has happened and
18:38
Speaker 1: the true loss of life to this is such a
18:42
Speaker 1: mental gymnastics, but it's working. That's the part that people
18:46
Speaker 1: people fed on this. You're absolutely right that story is
18:49
Speaker 1: heartbreaking and infuriating, but it is not surprising. And I
18:53
Speaker 1: think part of why stories like that are able to
18:56
Speaker 1: take off so much and have that stickiness or people
18:59
Speaker 1: like feel like it's okay to tear her story apart
19:02
Speaker 1: and all of that, I think, you know, I talk
19:05
Speaker 1: a lot about how misleading narratives around things like abortion
19:10
Speaker 1: fester on social media, but I think that these things
19:12
Speaker 1: have been there since way before social media was ever
19:15
Speaker 1: a thing. Like think about the ways that mainstream media
19:18
Speaker 1: like news outlets and newspapers have done a lot of
19:20
Speaker 1: the work of anti choice extremists for them by spending
19:24
Speaker 1: decades framing abortion as this quote controversial issue, when the
19:28
Speaker 1: reality is eight percent of Americans support abortion access. There
19:32
Speaker 1: is not a place in the United States, even in
19:34
Speaker 1: the deepest of red states, where the majority of people
19:37
Speaker 1: there are against abortion access. And so all these stories
19:41
Speaker 1: that we've that we saw, all these news stories that
19:44
Speaker 1: framed it as this controversial issue where there's two sides,
19:47
Speaker 1: We've gotta like hear both sides and all of that
19:49
Speaker 1: when leaving out the plain honest truth that Americans are
19:53
Speaker 1: not divided on abortion care. It's actually something that we are,
19:56
Speaker 1: really the majority are united on. You know. It's like
19:59
Speaker 1: there's not many things where I was in America where
20:02
Speaker 1: of people like it other than like, I don't know,
20:04
Speaker 1: maybe Tom Hanks or like, you know, I'm I'm struggling
20:09
Speaker 1: to think of others, right, So, like, there's not that
20:10
Speaker 1: many things but abortion care and the importance of protecting
20:14
Speaker 1: abortion access as one of them, and yet we still
20:17
Speaker 1: see media treating it as it's as this controversial issue.
20:20
Speaker 1: Where is the controversy America has its mind made up
20:23
Speaker 1: and its anti choice extremists who are pushing through abortion
20:28
Speaker 1: bands and making it harder for people to access abortions
20:30
Speaker 1: against the wishes of of the of a majority, a
20:33
Speaker 1: clear majority of the American public. Yes. Uh, and I'm
20:36
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up because, as we've discussed
20:39
Speaker 1: multiple times, I grew up in a very small conservative town. Uh.
20:43
Speaker 1: When I first started on the show, one of the
20:45
Speaker 1: very first episodes of two thousand and ten we did
20:48
Speaker 1: was like politics Free abortion episode, and it was a
20:52
Speaker 1: it made news in our office like, oh, they're talking
20:55
Speaker 1: about abortion, Like, oh my god, it's gonna be so controversial.
20:59
Speaker 1: And I always thought it was super controversial because this
21:01
Speaker 1: is the story I've been fed. And so when I
21:03
Speaker 1: heard like, oh yeah, people are on it, I was shocked,
21:07
Speaker 1: Like that shocked me. And that's how effective this has
21:10
Speaker 1: been that I was so surprised, and like, I know,
21:16
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a silver lining at the end, promised listeners.
21:19
Speaker 1: But one of the silver linings that's come out of
21:21
Speaker 1: this mess for me has been like, oh my gosh,
21:24
Speaker 1: look at all these people that agree with me. And
21:28
Speaker 1: I thought it was such a controversial thing. Oh but
21:31
Speaker 1: I could go into a whole thing about high school
21:33
Speaker 1: debate team the abortion argument, but people get so inflamed
21:37
Speaker 1: about it. Oh my gosh, speaking of social media, while
21:43
Speaker 1: the media has done this great job of already feeding
21:46
Speaker 1: as this narrative that abortion is very controversial, social media
21:52
Speaker 1: like inflamed it. Right absolutely so, as I said, these
21:56
Speaker 1: incorrect narratives and misleading narratives about abortion, how Americans feel
22:00
Speaker 1: about them, who has them, how you can access them,
22:03
Speaker 1: lies about all of those things did not start with
22:05
Speaker 1: social media, but social media really allows them to spread
22:09
Speaker 1: quickly and become legitimized, right, And so I believe that
22:13
Speaker 1: platforms need to be doing a lot more to fix
22:15
Speaker 1: that right now, platforms do not treat lies about abortion
22:19
Speaker 1: as a medical misinformation the way that they would are,
22:21
Speaker 1: you know, for inactiveate information about COVID or vaccines. And
22:24
Speaker 1: I think it's because we have a harder time when
22:27
Speaker 1: I mean, this is just my as someone who studies
22:30
Speaker 1: disinformation and works on the internet, this is just like
22:33
Speaker 1: my opinion. I think that when there is an identity
22:36
Speaker 1: issue layered into miss or disinformation, it becomes harder to
22:41
Speaker 1: talk about clearly. And so if you're like, oh, uh,
22:44
Speaker 1: vaccines are safe or some fact based thing about COVID,
22:49
Speaker 1: people are like, yep, that is you know, that's that's fine.
22:53
Speaker 1: If you lie about those things. I think most people,
22:56
Speaker 1: you know, most reasonable people are like, oh, that's medical misinformation.
22:59
Speaker 1: When you layer on on a clear identity issue, like
23:02
Speaker 1: you know, everybody should have access to gender affirming healthcare,
23:06
Speaker 1: that's Those are the things that I think that it
23:09
Speaker 1: is harder to see as the as the medical misinformation
23:12
Speaker 1: it really is. And so we treat lies about COVID
23:15
Speaker 1: and vaccines and things like that as clearly medical misinformation.
23:19
Speaker 1: We treat lies about trans folks, queer folks, women, uh,
23:24
Speaker 1: and our care as something else. I would argue that
23:27
Speaker 1: both are forms of medical misinformation, and further both our
23:31
Speaker 1: threats to our public health. Yes, and so far it
23:36
Speaker 1: seems like social media and the people the powers that
23:39
Speaker 1: be behind them do not agree with you, or at
23:42
Speaker 1: least they're not taking action about that, right right as
23:44
Speaker 1: in fact, I've just recently I read an article saying
23:47
Speaker 1: that they've found out that Facebook, Meta and Instagram we're
23:51
Speaker 1: slowly just taking off actual information anything that mentions like
23:55
Speaker 1: Plan B or the abortion pill. Right, yes, yes, yes,
24:00
Speaker 1: so right now. Social media platforms are basically, I would argue,
24:03
Speaker 1: enabling and profiting from the subread of both organic and
24:07
Speaker 1: paid content that promote dangerous medical disinformation and misinformation around
24:11
Speaker 1: things like the abortion pill, even though this medication has
24:15
Speaker 1: a very long track record of scientific study and safety. UH.
24:19
Speaker 1: Quick side note. With my work at ultra Violet, working
24:22
Speaker 1: with our coalition called the Women's Disinformation Defense Project, ultra
24:26
Speaker 1: Violet and other organizations met with social media platforms to
24:28
Speaker 1: flag clear, specific examples of really dangerous lies about abortion
24:34
Speaker 1: on their platform. We did this last month right after
24:37
Speaker 1: the elite opinion around Row came out, because we knew
24:40
Speaker 1: we were gonna need to, you know, bring this to
24:43
Speaker 1: their attention, and when we did, they quickly acted to
24:46
Speaker 1: take those those lies about abortion down because they agreed
24:49
Speaker 1: that it was important for platforms to be a place
24:51
Speaker 1: where oh wait, no, just kidding, just kidding, they did
24:54
Speaker 1: nothing those they didn't do anything, and so they had
24:58
Speaker 1: They can't say, oh, we didn't know, because we sat
25:00
Speaker 1: there and showed them. They We can't they can't say, oh,
25:03
Speaker 1: we didn't have time. We're working on it, because we
25:04
Speaker 1: showed them a month ago. And so it just goes
25:06
Speaker 1: to show how I don't know. I just want platforms
25:13
Speaker 1: to do better. I think that we should be able
25:14
Speaker 1: to deserve better. I think that you know these platforms,
25:17
Speaker 1: they have so much money, they have so many resources,
25:19
Speaker 1: and they still can't get it right. And we've also
25:21
Speaker 1: seen really horrible medical misinformation about this process that they
25:26
Speaker 1: call quote abortion reversal and putting scare quotes around that,
25:29
Speaker 1: which is this idea that pill based abortion can be reversed,
25:33
Speaker 1: which is total nonsense, not grounded in science. Platforms have
25:36
Speaker 1: allowed both organic and paid promotion of potentially life threatening
25:39
Speaker 1: claims about this dangerous and medically unproven procedure, even while
25:44
Speaker 1: the American College of Obstrictics and Gynecology, which publishes practice
25:48
Speaker 1: guidelines for O B G y N care, including abortion,
25:51
Speaker 1: does not recommend the practice, stating that quote claims of
25:54
Speaker 1: medication abortion reversal are not supported by the body of
25:57
Speaker 1: scientific evidence, and this approach is not recommend it in
26:00
Speaker 1: a c o G Clinical Guidance on medication abortion. As
26:03
Speaker 1: shown by the failed study, this approach is not safe,
26:06
Speaker 1: not non effective, nor is it based in medical evidence.
26:09
Speaker 1: Yet platforms allow dangerous, inaccurate content that you know around
26:14
Speaker 1: abortion reversal, saying like, oh, if you took an abortion pill,
26:17
Speaker 1: there's a process where you can reverse it, even though
26:20
Speaker 1: it's not true, and so stuff like that can really
26:22
Speaker 1: be life threatening, and yet platforms are allowing it on
26:25
Speaker 1: on their on their platforms and making money from it. Wow,
26:29
Speaker 1: because that's kind of along the same lines of like
26:31
Speaker 1: trying to get activists and we're like, you know, we're
26:34
Speaker 1: you're well intended, but stop using hangars as a symbol
26:37
Speaker 1: because there is a safe access and then having that
26:40
Speaker 1: on top of the reversal, Oh my god, the level
26:43
Speaker 1: of misinformation for young people out there trying to figure
26:46
Speaker 1: out what is an option. Ah, we're gonna it's gonna
26:50
Speaker 1: kill people. Yeah, it's I mean, you really said it.
26:52
Speaker 1: I really see this as an issue where so many
26:55
Speaker 1: things are layered on. So like there's the misinformation, there's
27:00
Speaker 1: also like people who are like I think, genuinely like
27:02
Speaker 1: very well meaning, sort of perpetuating I guess, I mean,
27:06
Speaker 1: I don't want to It's a hard conversation, Like I
27:09
Speaker 1: don't want to shame anybody for like using the wrong language.
27:12
Speaker 1: And I think if you're in the fight, that's great.
27:14
Speaker 1: Even if you got to the fight late, that's great.
27:16
Speaker 1: We need you. And so you know, I don't want
27:18
Speaker 1: to shame anybody for like not starting their journey of
27:23
Speaker 1: activism around this issue knowing the exact right messaging and
27:26
Speaker 1: the exact right framing and the things to say, the
27:29
Speaker 1: things to not say, what's helpful, because I certainly didn't
27:32
Speaker 1: know those things. Like I was looking at my Facebook
27:34
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh yeah, back in the day,
27:37
Speaker 1: like two thousand ten, code hanger imagery was all over
27:40
Speaker 1: my Facebook about was being very helpful. I didn't know
27:43
Speaker 1: any better. And so I don't want to shame anybody
27:46
Speaker 1: who doesn't necessarily know the right thing. But yeah, I
27:49
Speaker 1: think it's one of those things where we have so
27:52
Speaker 1: much catching up to do as a movement and there
27:54
Speaker 1: are so many intersecting things against us that it can
27:58
Speaker 1: sometimes be like, wow, we are really we're really not
28:01
Speaker 1: in a great place. I feel sometimes, right, and you know,
28:04
Speaker 1: I'm completely with you, but like, honestly, I didn't in
28:07
Speaker 1: two thousand ten and shoot until like last year, knowing
28:12
Speaker 1: about the abortion pill, I'm like, oh, oh wow, Okay,
28:16
Speaker 1: this is a whole different level of understanding of what
28:19
Speaker 1: this is and that there is a safe access and
28:21
Speaker 1: we need to make sure that we talk about it,
28:23
Speaker 1: because yes, there's so many bad things. We don't want
28:27
Speaker 1: to go back to the old way. We don't have
28:28
Speaker 1: to cross your fingers in our so that we can
28:32
Speaker 1: do the new access Like there's so many, um rebellious.
28:36
Speaker 1: I love it people out there who are helping get
28:39
Speaker 1: access to abortion through these abortion pills and how much
28:42
Speaker 1: safer it is, and we need to remind people of that.
28:45
Speaker 1: But you know, also on top of all of this,
28:47
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking when it comes to anything with social
28:49
Speaker 1: media in general, I feel like the conspiracy and I
28:54
Speaker 1: don't think it's a conspiracy overall that we've already seen
28:57
Speaker 1: and talked about how just regular marginalized content creators are
29:01
Speaker 1: being shadow band I feel like it's a prep up
29:03
Speaker 1: to this. Am I just being you know, out there,
29:07
Speaker 1: you are not being out there in the least Sam.
29:10
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things where it feels like,
29:12
Speaker 1: when you talk about this, it feels like conspiracy theory,
29:15
Speaker 1: but it's not. And so platforms are definitely absolutely limiting
29:19
Speaker 1: what people can say about abortion and abortion pills. Um
29:22
Speaker 1: they are. People are having statements about abortion pills taken
29:26
Speaker 1: off of platforms like Facebook. Vice actually did some really
29:29
Speaker 1: interesting reporting into this. So on Friday, Vices Tech vertical motherboard,
29:34
Speaker 1: one of their reporters attempted to post a phrase abortion
29:37
Speaker 1: pills can be mailed on Facebook using a burner account.
29:40
Speaker 1: The post was flagged within seconds as violating the site's
29:43
Speaker 1: community standards, specifically the rules around buying, selling, or exchanging
29:47
Speaker 1: medical and non medical drugs. The reporter was given the
29:50
Speaker 1: option to disagree with the decision or agree with it.
29:53
Speaker 1: After they chose disagree, the post was removed. Um they
29:56
Speaker 1: were able to post phrases like pain killers can be
29:59
Speaker 1: can be mailed, pills and quote abortion without issue. Motherboard
30:04
Speaker 1: then posted abortion pills can be mailed a second time
30:09
Speaker 1: and it was flagged for removal, and this time the
30:11
Speaker 1: reporter agreed with the decision. And so something I know
30:13
Speaker 1: about Facebook's uh, content policies. They say, oh, we remove
30:16
Speaker 1: anything that's illegal, But the phrase abortion pills can be
30:20
Speaker 1: can be mailed that's not. That's just like a fact,
30:22
Speaker 1: that's not you know, an admission of illegal behavior. And
30:24
Speaker 1: so it really goes to show the complete failure of
30:28
Speaker 1: content moderation policies that platforms are using. You know, we've
30:32
Speaker 1: been sounding in the alarm way before this decision about
30:35
Speaker 1: the fact that that platforms are going to become hotbeds
30:38
Speaker 1: of life threatening misinformation and just that their their their
30:41
Speaker 1: moderation policies aren't don't work, they're not transparent, they're not consistent.
30:45
Speaker 1: People don't know how they work, and they're not able
30:46
Speaker 1: to tell us with any kind of transparency how they work.
30:49
Speaker 1: And so again I think, really this moment shows how
30:53
Speaker 1: badly platforms have failed us and how little they're working
30:58
Speaker 1: to to correct the problem. Right, And it feels just
31:01
Speaker 1: extremely hypocritical when they're like, oh, we're a platform or technology,
31:04
Speaker 1: we don't take size, but you can't post that that
31:06
Speaker 1: thing you no. Right. One of the things my friends
31:23
Speaker 1: and I've seen a lot of conversation about is, you know,
31:27
Speaker 1: people keep saying we're back to before Roe v. Wade,
31:29
Speaker 1: but it's different now because we have all of this
31:31
Speaker 1: technology and people are worried about oh, social media, can
31:34
Speaker 1: they use that? But also um like period tracker apps.
31:38
Speaker 1: I know I've been a big part of this conversation
31:41
Speaker 1: and fear totally. So I'm so glad that you brought
31:44
Speaker 1: that up. As Sam was saying, you know, in two
31:48
Speaker 1: the conversation around abortion care is not you know, quote
31:51
Speaker 1: back alley abortions and quote hanger imagery and all of that.
31:54
Speaker 1: I understand why people are using that, and again like
31:57
Speaker 1: I get it, but the conversation because because of the
32:01
Speaker 1: availability of things like abortion, pill based abortion and self
32:03
Speaker 1: managed abortion is really not around that kind that kind
32:07
Speaker 1: of access like finger as you said, fingers crossed, I
32:10
Speaker 1: don't think we're gonna go back to a place where
32:11
Speaker 1: we have to resort to that. And and pill based
32:14
Speaker 1: abortion is very safe. The new frontier, it's definitely surveillance
32:18
Speaker 1: and criminalization of people who need abortions, are looking into abortions,
32:23
Speaker 1: people who are pregnant and aren't having aren't planning on
32:26
Speaker 1: having an abortion but maybe a miscarry, and people who
32:28
Speaker 1: are aiding others and getting abortion. And so you know,
32:31
Speaker 1: the last time that abortion was illegal in the seventies,
32:35
Speaker 1: you know, before Roe v. Wade was the law of
32:36
Speaker 1: the land, we did not have this vast digital network
32:41
Speaker 1: of surveillance that we have today. We didn't all carry
32:43
Speaker 1: GPS devices in our pocket or leave digital paper trails
32:46
Speaker 1: of everything we've ever googled ever, you know, for someone
32:49
Speaker 1: to look at. We didn't have platforms that would then
32:52
Speaker 1: share that information with all manner of third parties, including
32:56
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Uh, you know, I want to say, like
32:58
Speaker 1: on the on the period tracker thing. The very popular
33:01
Speaker 1: period tracking app Flow faced a lawsuit last year app
33:04
Speaker 1: for sharing people's personal information, including quote intimate details about
33:09
Speaker 1: sexual health and menstrual cycles, with third parties like Facebook
33:12
Speaker 1: and Google, despite public assurances that they would not do that,
33:15
Speaker 1: and according to this lawsuit, they did that because they
33:18
Speaker 1: know that data is quote vital to their business. And
33:21
Speaker 1: so I think all of those questions I understand why
33:24
Speaker 1: in the wake of this decision, those were the cut
33:26
Speaker 1: questions that were like flooding social media. And when you
33:29
Speaker 1: add in laws like the one in Texas that deputized
33:31
Speaker 1: ordinary citizens to turn anyone that they suspect of having
33:34
Speaker 1: an abortion or aiding at a betting and an abortion, uh,
33:37
Speaker 1: turn them in for a ten thousand dollar reward slash bounty.
33:41
Speaker 1: You can really see the scope of what we're facing
33:43
Speaker 1: in terms of surveillance and criminalization and so um a lot.
33:47
Speaker 1: You know, if someone's listening and they're like, well, should
33:49
Speaker 1: I delete my period tracker, or like, how can I
33:51
Speaker 1: stay safe digitally in a post real world. I am
33:55
Speaker 1: not a lawyer. I this is not legal advice, so like,
33:57
Speaker 1: do not take this as legal advice, but I it
34:00
Speaker 1: speak to computer scientists and social media expert Dr Jim Goldbeck,
34:04
Speaker 1: who is currently making a series on TikTok to educate
34:06
Speaker 1: people who might need abortions on how to access them
34:09
Speaker 1: more securely. If you want to hear the whole interview
34:11
Speaker 1: which just came out, you can listen to the most
34:12
Speaker 1: recent episode of my own podcast, There are No Girls
34:14
Speaker 1: on the Internet. But here is a good summary which
34:17
Speaker 1: I'm going to play and it's going to work and
34:19
Speaker 1: it's going to be fine to give you a sense
34:21
Speaker 1: of some of the steps you can take to keep
34:23
Speaker 1: yourself secure. So you know, you've mentioned a couple of
34:25
Speaker 1: like really great tips for folks if you're if you're
34:28
Speaker 1: you know it, looking for abortion pills and you want
34:30
Speaker 1: to do it, you know in a way that you're
34:32
Speaker 1: going to be less likely to be tracked, you know,
34:34
Speaker 1: using a tour browser, using incognito mode, when you search
34:37
Speaker 1: um using public WiFi. Are there other tips that you
34:40
Speaker 1: want to shout out for folks if you if they
34:42
Speaker 1: if they might need this information. So, so that's all
34:45
Speaker 1: important stuff, I would say for sure. The most important
34:47
Speaker 1: one is that you are not paying with a credit
34:51
Speaker 1: card or a debit card connected to your name, So
34:53
Speaker 1: figure out how much your medication is going to cost.
34:56
Speaker 1: Use cash by like a Visa Vanilla gift card, which
34:59
Speaker 1: you can get anywhere for that amount, and then pay
35:02
Speaker 1: with the Visa Vanilla gift card. UM. So much of
35:06
Speaker 1: how we're tracked is through credit card number. UM, so
35:09
Speaker 1: definitely do that. And the other way that we're really
35:12
Speaker 1: easily tracked is through email address. So set up a
35:14
Speaker 1: fresh email address that you are only using to buy
35:17
Speaker 1: this abortion medication. UM. Proton mail is the one site
35:20
Speaker 1: that I recommended for this. It's free, it's encrypted, it's
35:22
Speaker 1: really good and secure. UM. You can just set up
35:25
Speaker 1: email address, use it to buyer medicine, don't use it
35:28
Speaker 1: for anything else. If you do that, gift card, fresh
35:31
Speaker 1: email address on something like proton mail. You know, I
35:34
Speaker 1: love Gmail, I use it right, but they track the
35:36
Speaker 1: hell out of you on Gmail. So protion mail, email address,
35:40
Speaker 1: Vanilla gift card. UM, you get eight of the protection
35:44
Speaker 1: from tracking just from those two measures. So UM, you
35:47
Speaker 1: know that's easy and accessible to anybody. Definitely do that. Yes,
35:52
Speaker 1: that is such great and helpful information, and I know
35:54
Speaker 1: a lot of people are looking for it right now,
35:56
Speaker 1: so definitely, listeners go check out that episode if you
35:59
Speaker 1: have in our ready and you know not to we're
36:02
Speaker 1: gonna We're about to wrap up here. But it's kind
36:04
Speaker 1: of frustrated to me because I was talking to my
36:06
Speaker 1: friends about this and they're like, do you know anybody
36:08
Speaker 1: who has a regular period? No? No, I don't, okay, uh,
36:14
Speaker 1: But we did promise the silver lining. Yes, yes. So
36:18
Speaker 1: as dark as all of that was, it is not
36:22
Speaker 1: all terrible news, and I know this is a lot,
36:24
Speaker 1: but the good news is that abortion advocates and providers
36:27
Speaker 1: have been in this fight for such a long time,
36:29
Speaker 1: and I've been spending the better part of a decade
36:32
Speaker 1: preparing for this very moment, and so they knew what
36:35
Speaker 1: was coming. They are prepared. They have abortion networks, abortion funds,
36:39
Speaker 1: legal experts, bail funds, protesters, actions, rallies, all at the already,
36:44
Speaker 1: and so I know that there was a moment, at
36:46
Speaker 1: least for me, where it can feel very like overwhelming,
36:49
Speaker 1: like what's to be done? There are so many different
36:51
Speaker 1: things and resources that have been being strengthened for the
36:55
Speaker 1: last ten years that you could tap into, listeners at
36:58
Speaker 1: home could tap into. And I think that's one of
37:00
Speaker 1: the things that gives me so much faith and makes
37:03
Speaker 1: me feel a little bit better is that this space
37:05
Speaker 1: is full of dynamic, brilliant people who care. And it's
37:09
Speaker 1: like the smartest chick from your college, right, the coolest
37:12
Speaker 1: person in your dorm. People like that, people who you
37:15
Speaker 1: can look to, the person in your life or in
37:17
Speaker 1: your community who is the loudest, proudest, most bold advocate.
37:21
Speaker 1: They're on our side, not the other way around. And
37:23
Speaker 1: guess what, it's of us. There are more of us
37:26
Speaker 1: and there are of them, and we will outlast them.
37:29
Speaker 1: And so as sed up as all of this is,
37:32
Speaker 1: don't lose hope. Because there are more of us and
37:34
Speaker 1: there are of them. We are and we're not going anywhere.
37:38
Speaker 1: I'm a clap. Yeah that deserves plaus Yeah. I mean
37:44
Speaker 1: I literally right before we got on this call was
37:46
Speaker 1: at a like I just ran it in from a
37:49
Speaker 1: action outside of the Spreme Court where people were being
37:52
Speaker 1: like I think a hundred and fifty people were arrested
37:54
Speaker 1: outside of the Supreme Court because they refused to move,
37:57
Speaker 1: and so it was folks like I just look into
38:00
Speaker 1: the crowd and I was like, oh yeah, her, she's
38:01
Speaker 1: a tech expert. Oh yeah, that's busy. Phillips she's a celebrity.
38:04
Speaker 1: Oh yeah her. Like it was like I was going
38:06
Speaker 1: down the line and it was just like damn, Like,
38:09
Speaker 1: we are strong and mighty and we're not going anywhere.
38:12
Speaker 1: We will not be moved. We're not going back, we
38:14
Speaker 1: will not back down. We'll see you mother on the street. Right.
38:19
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. That was indeed the
38:23
Speaker 1: silver lining we needed. And yeah, I think it's important
38:26
Speaker 1: to remember the work people have been doing and to
38:28
Speaker 1: respect that and then to continue that. Yes, do you
38:32
Speaker 1: have any resources you would like to shout out? Absolutely?
38:35
Speaker 1: The one that I always shout out is abortion Funds
38:37
Speaker 1: dot org. You can find a local abortion fund in
38:39
Speaker 1: your community. If you've got money, you can give the money.
38:42
Speaker 1: There other ways to can donate your time, but that's
38:45
Speaker 1: the one. I really I think that in this in
38:47
Speaker 1: this time right now, giving money to local organizations is
38:51
Speaker 1: really the key. I love Planned Parenthood. I used to
38:53
Speaker 1: work there. They have plenty of money. If if your
38:56
Speaker 1: your daughter will go like, no shade to them. I
38:57
Speaker 1: love their work, but your dough will go so much further.
39:01
Speaker 1: It's smaller local abortion funds, So definitely check out abortion
39:04
Speaker 1: Funds dot org and find out if you've got. If
39:05
Speaker 1: you've got a little coin to spend, I would spend
39:07
Speaker 1: it there. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us,
39:13
Speaker 1: for talking about this, for all the work that you've
39:15
Speaker 1: done because we were like I hope Bridget will help
39:20
Speaker 1: us through this, remind us with a great information um
39:24
Speaker 1: and you did so. Thank you, thank you, thank you,
39:26
Speaker 1: and yes, listeners, check out where Bridget. You can find
39:31
Speaker 1: Bridget other places, including her podcast. You want to tell
39:33
Speaker 1: the listeners everywhere they can find you. Yeah, you check
39:36
Speaker 1: out my podcast. There are no girls on the internet.
39:38
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Bridget Marie or
39:40
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Bridget Marie in d C. Yes, and
39:44
Speaker 1: and please go do that listeners if you have not already,
39:46
Speaker 1: and you can email us if you would like our
39:49
Speaker 1: email Stephanie Mom Stuff that I Hurt Me dot com.
39:51
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at Stuff podcast or
39:53
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Stuff I never told you. Thanks it's
39:54
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and
39:57
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I never told you.
39:59
Speaker 1: Stection of Heart Radio for more podcast in my Heart Radio,
40:01
Speaker 1: but idia heard you app Apple podcast or wherever you
40:03
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H.