Latest / You're Overqualified Podcast - Career and Leadership Strategies for Women / 118. How to Build Executive Presence Without Becoming Someone Else

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118. How to Build Executive Presence Without Becoming Someone Else · You're Overqualified Podcast - Career and Leadership Strategies for Women

• 0:09
  Hi, I'm Danny Tan. I'm the founder of She Belongs
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  Here and this is the You're Overqualified podcast.
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  I am a leadership coach, former VP and here to help you when it
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  comes to all things when it comes to your career leadership
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  in general. And on today's episode, we're
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  talking about how to build executive presence without
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  becoming someone else. And so from my background, in
• 0:32
  case we haven't met before, I pivoted a careers five times.
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  I worked in PR sales, merchandising, e-commerce, you
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  name it, all achieving 11 promotions in 11 years.
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  So yes, I went from a sample coordinator to AVP of a
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  multicolor company to then going and pursuing entrepreneurship.
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  How that kind of unfolded was that I found that I always loved
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  building and hiring teams, developing the people that I
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  worked with and being able to create opportunities for those
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  who maybe didn't have them. And so I kind of just unfolded
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  where I was a coach in my day job, which led me to be a coach
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  for my full time job. And I always loved working with
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  folks when it comes to their careers.
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  One of the things that I was volunteering and doing was
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  America Needs You as a nonprofit for first Gen. college students,
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  helping them get internships and figure out their careers.
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  And that's one of my passions as well.
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  So let's dive into today's episode when it comes to how to
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  build executive presence without becoming someone else.
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  And so you may have heard of some of the things that come up
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  when folks will say to you. And I myself have heard these
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  things too, especially when I was having my corporate career
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  and building it out. Maybe you've gotten some
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  feedback that says your manager is at your performance review or
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  maybe it's a skip level meeting. You didn't see it coming.
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  And they say, oh, you know, your executive presence, it's just,
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  it's a little lacking, right? We need a little bit more of it.
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  And it sounds to you like, does that mean be more confident?
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  Does that mean take up more space?
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  Does that mean commander room? Like I don't know what that
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  means. And so maybe you went and
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  Googled it and you got the results about handshakes or the
• 1:57
  tone that you use or how you show up within the room.
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  And underneath all of that, the one, you know, quiet question
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  that may be coming up is do you have to become a different
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  person to get promoted? Do you have to become a
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  different person to be seen and recognized as a leader?
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  And the answer is no, no, you don't.
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  So nobody's going to tell you, unfortunately, you know, what to
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  do with that feedback. Sometimes they will just say
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  executive presence and there is no explanation.
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  And so we're going to talk about what that actually means and
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  unpack that today together. So let's start with it.
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  We'd like to break it down into 3 phases.
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  This is Phase 1. So executive presence is code
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  for something nobody will probably explain to you.
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  And so it can be something that is so subjective when it comes
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  to pieces of feedback that especially that a woman can
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  receive. And so let's break it down a
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  little bit more. It gets used in so many
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  different ways, right? So it could mean something like
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  you speak too fast. It could mean something like
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  you're too quiet in executive meetings.
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  It could be something of like you haven't built the right
• 2:59
  relationships. And The thing is, is that, you
• 3:02
  know, maybe it's saying that you don't show up or you're not
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  matching the next level picture. But a lot of the times, and
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  let's be honest, it could also mean like you don't remind us of
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  the leaders who have come before you or that we have now in the
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  leadership team. And so when a feedback is too
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  vague, it is very hard slash not possible to create a development
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  plan, right because now you're just going off a vibe where is
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  the facts, where is the data to create the plan.
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  So you cannot build a strategy around folks giving you vague
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  information. It's just not going to happen.
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  And so sometimes we end up responding as, like, we actually
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  get quieter. We kind of shrink ourselves
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  because we're not sure what is the right thing to do.
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  We're not sure what's action. And so we're like, OK, well, you
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  know, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
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  And then we're just, you know, throwing things at the wall in
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  the dark. And what I want you to know is
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  that when you're getting stuck, you cannot, you know, grow
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  within leadership or grow to get promoted by just taking shots at
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  different things and trying to make them work.
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  You have to have a real clear strategy to have that.
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  You have to have real clear feedback.
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  So, you know, one of my clients, she definitely got the feedback
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  that she was too direct. So that is just her
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  communication style. You know, she's very clear,
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  she's super efficient, she's precise.
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  And it was being read as abrasive, let's say.
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  So she came in, you know, to work with me within coaching.
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  And she was saying like, hey, you know, maybe I need to like
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  soften myself. Maybe I'm, I'm, you know, I'm
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  being told I'm too direct, but I appreciate that thing and the
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  thing that I want to tell her. And I just, I actually adore and
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  love and respect direct people because I do believe that
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  direct, you know, does not mean difficult.
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  Direct just means that you're concise and you're getting to
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  the point. But what I told her was, and
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  within coaching was that the real problem wasn't her
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  directness. It was that she had not been
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  given like a specific moment or meeting or example that
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  triggered that feedback. And so, you know, we can't fix
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  something that we can't see or that we don't know.
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  And so that's something that I want you to kind of notice is
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  that if you were given feedback, is there specificity around the
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  feedback that you were given? Right.
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  We can't just take blanket statements and run with them and
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  then change our identities just for that blanket statement.
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  Like we need the facts, so I want the receipts.
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  And so this takes me to the next point of you can't change what
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  nobody has named, right? So if someone hasn't named it,
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  how do you change it? And so the first was is to
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  decode the feedback, get really specific.
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  So go back to whoever gave you that feedback and ask, can you
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  give me a specific example? What did that look like?
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  What would the alternative have looked like, right?
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  Because we kind of just take sometimes when people say and
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  we're like, Oh, well, they are in a position of power or they
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  are elitist or they are a manager or they are an authority
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  figure. But what we forget is they're a
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  person, they're a human being and they make mistakes.
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  And they also need to help clarify for us.
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  And so the biggest thing I will say is like, go back and ask
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  them for a specific example situation.
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  What did it look like? And then ask them what would be
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  an alternative to handle it, right?
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  Get an idea of where their head is at, of how they would have
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  handled that. And so most managers or leaders
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  don't get that specific or maybe they don't even get asked that
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  question. And so when you do ask, you
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  start to hear things like in the leadership meeting last month,
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  you were challenged on a timeline and you got defensive
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  quickly. That is something you can kind
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  of work off of or you whenever you present to the exact team,
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  right? It feels like you're reading
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  your slides rather than owning the room.
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  OK, that's something that we can work with.
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  And so without specifics, you are guessing and guessing it's
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  going to cost you time, it's going to cost you energy and
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  it's going to make you frustrated.
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  And I honestly, you could lose your sense of self because
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  you're trying to shift shape and mold into something that you're
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  not even sure of. And so with the same client,
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  when I asked her to go back to her manager and get a specific
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  example, what she realized that, you know, her manager noticed
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  that whenever there was like a difficult conversation, Sarah
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  would just like jump to the conclusion of like, OK, this is
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  the, this is the conclusion, this is the solution.
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  This is what we got to do. And so whenever she was going
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  into a meeting and there was a, a problem or something difficult
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  that was coming up, she just went straight to solution and
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  she kind of steamrolled the exec team because they were like, OK,
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  well, you're telling us we have to do this.
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  It's this or nothing. And we don't have contacts.
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  We don't have, you know, we don't have a frame of reference.
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  We don't have like the storyline behind this.
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  And so it wasn't that she was too direct.
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  It was that she was just leading with the end, end all, be all
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  punchline without setting up the room first, without bringing
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  them into the conversation, without giving them the context.
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  And so they took it as like, you know, oh, she's like too direct.
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  And it really was that. No, she's actually coming with a
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  solution, but it's how she was framing it.
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  So this brings me to the next point is you get to decide
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  what's worth changing and what's worth owning, right?
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  Because remember, this is this, this episode is called How to
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  build this presence without becoming someone else.
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  And so you get to decide what's worth changing and what's worth
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  owning. So once you know what they're
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  actually asking you to change, you get to decide, is this a
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  skill worth building or is this a place to push back?
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  Because some executive presence feedback is legitimate and
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  useful, right? Like it's feedback.
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  Maybe like, you know, the term or the phrase is, is one thing,
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  but the feedback sometimes is useful for us.
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  And then sometimes, so it could be them asking you to code
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  switch or asking you to shrink your identity or ask you to
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  perform some kind of version of leadership that was not built
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  with you in mind, right, like some old archetype.
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  And that is unhelpful. So I want you to know that the
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  values that you were raised with, humility, directness,
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  community, they are not liabilities.
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  They are not an issue. They are definitely strengths of
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  who you are and the leadership style that you bring.
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  They should be framed accordingly for that space, not
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  erased. And so then what you do is you
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  build. You build and you don't want for
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  people to notice what you're doing.
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  You create these moments that center your uniqueness, that
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  center your strengths, and then also bridge the gap between what
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  they're looking for within their team.
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  And so when you're able to understand and identify, OK,
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  what were the specific examples, right, getting that specific
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  feedback back and then understanding, OK, now I have
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  the feedback, how do I decode that?
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  And then what do I decide I want to work on as a skill versus
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  maybe it's something that I legitimately want to push back
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  on? That's OK.
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  And so you are able to then practice where you you, you
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  know, you own the room, you get to understand how to build
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  relationships with senior leadership intentionally.
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  And then you're able to, you know, lead a project and share
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  the narrative, not just like go jump into the conclusion instead
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  of just living in the data of it, but also being strategic
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  about it. And so, for example, my guy, in
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  the end, she did not, she did not erase her directness.
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  You know, what she did was she added relational warmth in the
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  sense of when there was hard conversations or hard decisions
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  being made versus just jumping to, well, this is what it has to
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  be or things are going to fall apart.
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  She would actually bring in the team and say, hey, this is what
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  we've been working on. Based on what we've been working
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  on, these are the issues we've been facing and this is what the
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  best solutions would be. And that made it seem like, OK,
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  she's thought this through, She's bringing us in, she's
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  asking us for opinion. And that was just a shift.
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  She's still direct. She's still being exactly who
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  she is. And So what she realized was
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  that later she was like, you're actually really clear and
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  decisive and a great communicator.
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  And so same person, but just better framing, better framing
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  and understanding what the needs are.
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  And so I just want you to kind of think about like if you were
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  getting executive presence feedback right now, whether it's
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  like vague or it's kind of like a contradiction of each other.
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  I want you to know that no one should be asking you to be
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  someone that you're not, right? And I definitely am not asking
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  you that either. And I would just say like,
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  that's the work that we do together.
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  So if you want to be able to, you know, fill the answer or, or
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  go ahead and work on your executive presence and you're
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  feeling you have vague or, you know, feedback that contradicts
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  and you don't want to become someone that you're not.
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  And that's what we can do together.
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  So I would say, you know, go ahead, book, call and learn what
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  it's like to work together in private coaching.
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  Because together within private coaching, what we do is we
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  understand where it is that you want to go.
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  So what is your plan for yourself in the next, you know,
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  3-6 months? And then based off of that was
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  the feedback that you are receiving, right?
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  When it comes to executive presence, we decode that
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  feedback. And then what we do is we figure
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  out what is worth building for skills, what is in alignment and
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  how to do in a way that is in alignment with who you are, your
• 11:38
  values, right? So you don't feel like you're
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  becoming someone else. And we build the strategy.
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  So you're driving your own leadership narrative, not just
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  responding to what someone is telling you.
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  And so when you have a call, on the call, we talked together to,
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  one, understand what's been coming up in the challenges that
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  you've been facing. 2 Then I gave you a custom coaching plan
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  to see what it would be like to work together.
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  And then overall, then we'll do a gut check and say like, OK,
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  this makes sense or maybe not, but this is something that
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  always will come up with in leadership.
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  When it comes to executive presence, there's something that
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  I faced myself too when I was going into leadership from even
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  when I had my first role as a coordinator and assistant, I was
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  always getting feedback on executive presence from how I
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  was speaking to how fast to how slow, to the words that I used,
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  to how I dressed to how I presented.
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  And what I found was I didn't have to necessarily hide myself
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  or change myself into something else.
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  I had to figure out, you know, what was the real specific
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  feedback that was coming back. And for me, it had been
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  something along the lines of like, oh, we want to make sure
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  that your message resonates for people and that there's
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  influence and impact behind that.
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  And so that was something that I knew I had to work on when it
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  came to how I dressed. I didn't want to be, you know,
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  with everybody else. And this is no shade, but like
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  everybody else with their Louis Vuitton purse and their heels,
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  you know, I wanted to speak on stages and be in Converse
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  printed sneakers. And that's also part of the
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  charm of how people come and find me.
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  A lot of the times I hear the feedback of I want to work with
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  you because you don't look like everybody else.
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  I want to work with you because you can show up on a stage and
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  you can be funny, but also be direct and serious and also be
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  able to bring people in, have warmth while being able to, you
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  know, be wearing whatever, you know, sneakers.
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  That's always a big thing. I get, I get a lot of feedback
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  on. And so just knowing that you can
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  do that for yourself as well. It's just about being able to
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  understand where people are maybe not in alignment of the
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  message that you're trying to convey and how to just tighten
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  that up so it makes sense and it lands for people.
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  So if you're kind of like, Oh my gosh, like what if the feedback
• 13:38
  is valid? Like that's a question, right?
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  What if their feedback is valid? Like, you know, and you're
• 13:42
  saying to me, hey, maybe they are, right?
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  Then that's okay. Then we do the work and the goal
• 13:47
  isn't to avoid growth, it's just to make sure the growth that
• 13:50
  you're doing is actually moving you toward where you want to go
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  and not just making you more palatable for someone else's
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  idea of leadership. And if you're thinking like,
• 13:58
  I've tried to change and nothing worked, that's usually because
• 14:01
  the feedback wasn't specific enough for you to act on and the
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  work is to be decoding. How do we decode that?
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  So you shouldn't have to do that by yourself.
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  And then lastly, if you're like, what if my company just doesn't
• 14:11
  value people like me? That might be true.
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  But before we go there, let's make sure you have a real
• 14:17
  strategy to analyze and understand that, because
• 14:20
  sometimes what feels like a culture problem is maybe a
• 14:22
  positioning problem. And either way, you deserve the
• 14:24
  clarity, not just guessing. And either way, you'll be able
• 14:27
  to make a plan from there, right?
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  What does that look like for you if that is the case?
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  And then how do we make those steps to get you to a place that
• 14:33
  does value in that culture? And so you don't have to become
• 14:36
  someone else to lead at the next level.
• 14:39
  You have to get clear on what's actually being asked of you and
• 14:42
  decide with intention what you're willing to build and what
• 14:45
  you're willing to go on your own and do.
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  And so you either decide to own it or you don't.
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  And that's the work and it's worth doing.
• 14:52
  And so hopefully found this episode helpful and I will catch
• 14:55
  you on next weeks episode.