Latest / The No Good Sports Podcast / Ep. 03- The NFL's Unsealed Racism Memo on Brian Flores Exposes How Hiring Really Works
Transcript
- Julio A.: Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the No Good Sports Podcast with your host Julio Pabón Santiago Rivera. Is that the full? Julio Pabón: I think most of you were I mean, I don't go back that far on, you know, DNA and all that stuff. Julio A.: Julio Pabón Santiago and Julio Antonio Pabón Me, that's me. I also go by Julio A Pabón Julio Pabón Figueroa. If you if you're my mother and you're screaming at me. Julio Pabón: And also jap also jap. Julio A.: No, we can't say that. That's that's racially offensive. It's just Julio Pabón: Yeah, but it's just your initials, J A P Julio A.: you gotta stop saying that. You can't do it. We're gonna get canceled. Julio Pabón: But it's J what's your initials? Julio A.: You can't do J A P. You just can't say it. You just can't just can't do it. Julio Pabón: Thank you. that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. T's ridiculous. All right. We'll say it backwards, Padge. Julio A.: but another controversial note. The NFL is racist. I don't know if that's a hot take anymore. But but Brian Flores, now defensive coordinator of the Minnesota Vikings, had a case against the NFL and the judge unsealed some of the contents of that case, some of the evidence, and yesterday came out that the recruiter company called Korn Ferry, which is the same Korn Ferry I imagine that runs the golf circuit. It's called the Korn Ferry Tour. anyway, but the they're recruiting Yeah, well that ain't that Julio Pabón: Which is no coincidence, which is also another sport that has limited number of people of color. Julio A.: that that's a fact. and you know you can argue that that's by design. but the the Korn Ferry recruitment company had a note that they had sent showing positives and negatives I imagine of not just Brian Flores but many candidates but in this particular case Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: had some choice words for the candidate Julio Pabón: If you could say choice words, boy. Yes. That was and that's that's an Julio A.: Well let me just Julio Pabón: old case, right? That's an old case. That case has been going on since when? Julio A.: Case has been going on for a while. I want to say a couple of years, like post-COVID, but Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: like three or four years now. Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: and in part, one of the reasons why it's taking so long is because part of the discovery that the NFL is trying to hold back from the from the prosecution is that they wanna go through 20 years of files of through of hiring practices that the NFL has engaged on. in the last twenty years, not just Brian Flores' case and the NFL you know, has I mean they at one point I remember they went all the way to the Supreme Court. They went all the way to the Supreme Court. Julio Pabón: They're calling that abusive they say that's abusive. That's abusive they said. Julio A.: And the Supreme Court shut it down and said, No, we're gonna send it back to the lower courts. Y'all figure it out. And so now it's it's it, you know, some of those contents have been unsealed. And yeah, it's pretty bad. There's a one-page memo. and there's a section that's like pol he's polished, speaking about Brian Flores, polished and a good presenter, despite growing up in Brownsville, Brooklyn, and then it Quote parentheses, same as Mike Tyson. Yeah, he was able Julio Pabón: Despite despite despite. Julio A.: to build a strong friendship with a billionaire's son, which gave him opportunities to socialize and learn how to build relationships with white-collar and upper class individuals. Julio Pabón: Hijo de su madre, Julio A.: This is this is, you know, for those who don't know why this is so incendiary, this is like, this is institutional racism. This is what it looks like on the most egregious scale, right? This one isn't hiding. This one is in plain sight. This one is like someone wrote that and then submitted that to a bunch of other people to read, thinking it would never get out and it's okay to put on someone's profile. Julio Pabón: Yeah, no, that's incredible. And the fact that, you know, it finally was unsealed, I must have shocked a so a few people because they probably felt that that was not gonna happen. And having it on unsealed, and now everybody can read what this company wrote, like you said, they pulled the covers from right over the person, man. They they said it straight out. I mean, you might have just said, you know, hey, we don't want this person because of his color, period. Or because we don't because of his background. Because they said it in in a very now, I wouldn't say polished way, but you know, because of because they mean he he he Julio A.: They do it in that way. Julio Pabón: he had he met a friend who's a billionaire's son. So that helped him get polished. Julio A.: Right. Right. Exactly. I think we all well that that goes into a whole other thing. But you know, that that Julio Pabón: That's ridiculous. Julio A.: Brownsville part, you know, despite that despite part really eats at me and to a lot of people I I imagine who who have been in a very similar boat. I was, you know, pretty well educated. I'm a product of private school from from middle school all the way through my Julio Pabón: And public and public. Julio A.: My yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, my elementary was public school. And then, you know, we we made the choice. And I went to private school ever since sixth grade. And I can't tell you how many times I'd be in a room and people be like, you're so articulate. As if, you know, despite being from the Bronx, or despite being Puerto Rican, or despite, you know, Julio Pabón: South Bronx. South Bronx. Julio A.: you appearing in these circles in a very you know opportunistic way, right? Like we're not in Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: these circles all the time, but you're here now. look how articulate you are. this feels like that. This feels like, you know, he's polished despite the fact that he's from Brownsville. and that that that really eats at the stereotype that poor people are not polished, that poor people have no class, that poor people are are can't speak in a certain way. And Julio Pabón: Wait. Julio A.: obviously it's not true. but just this prevailing thought that he needed he did all that despite his circumstances. And then meeting a billionaire's son, you know, gave him access to all these things. And and even the way they phrase that, he had the He was able to build a strong friendship. That's almost like secretly sinister. It wasn't say, he's been friends with homie since college, or has been, you know, he happened to be a billionaire since height. Like there's no history, there's no context. It's he Julio Pabón: No. Julio A.: happened to be almost sinister, almost like he's, you know, this was all part of a larger Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: plan for Brian Flores to take over an NFL team. Like it's just Racist on the most institutional level. It's why NFL has these problems, you know. Julio Pabón: Which is incredible because there has been a long history, small and few in between, but hey, Latinos have been in the NFL what since nineteen twenty seven with Ignacio Santorini Lou Molinet played Julio A.: I wouldn't know that. Okay. Julio Pabón: for the Frankfurt Yellow Jackets in nineteen twenty seven. After that, Jesse Rodriguez in nineteen twenty nine, which everybody thought Jesse Julio A.: wow. Julio Pabón: Rodriguez was the first NFL. The first player in professional football until somebody brought out some records and showed that Ignacio played, Cuban born, by the way, Julio A.: Before him. Julio Pabón: in 1927. Then after that, of course, those Julio A.: Wow. Julio Pabón: that we do know, another one that I never heard of, I had to f look him up because of his last name, Steve Van Bursen. Honduran. Honduran American. He played for the Eagles, the Philadelphia Eagles. And he's the Julio A.: Okay. Shout out to colonialism. The Eagles, huh? All right. Julio Pabón: first. The first Latino going into the Hall of Fame, in the Latino in football hall of fame. And then of course we all Julio A.: No shit. Julio Pabón: know in my generation, Tom Flores. Julio A.: Tom Flores. That's where I I I began my Latino history in the NFL. I knew nothing about those prior names. Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: Shout out to the Hall of Famer. I didn't even know we had a Hall of Famer before Tom Flores. Julio Pabón: It's the Hispanic American Hispanic American football hall of fame. Julio A.: he's a Hispanic American Football Hall of Fame. Okay. Cause Tom Flores is an actual Hall of Famer. like NFL. Keys and Canton. Julio Pabón: Yes. And how he went he was the first first Latino quarterback? Julio A.: Okay. Julio Pabón: First nothing or quarterback. Absolutely. But my favorite, Julio A.: And a Super Bowl winning coach, right? I mean, isn't the ri he won't right? Julio Pabón: my favorite, I'm a historian for a movie, Jim Plunkett. Julio A.: Tim Plunk is Latino? Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: What? Julio Pabón: Yes. Jim Plunkett, Latino parents, Mexican background. he was the Julio A.: No shit. Julio Pabón: overall, he's the first overall draft and two-time Super Bowl MVP. his his game, he went when his when his team he beats when Stanford beat Ohio State, they were undefeated in the Rose Bowl. He was the first Latino Heis Heisman Trophy winner. Julio A.: Get out of town. I knew I was Julio Pabón: And the reason he went to he he had he was baseball, basketball, football, track. And the only reason he went into he went to Stanford was because both his parents were blind and he wanted to stay close to them. Julio A.: Wow. Julio Pabón: Isn't that an incredible history? I mean is that isn't that something for a movie, bro? Julio A.: That is something for a movie indeed. I had no idea. I mean that's incredible both his parents were blind? Julio Pabón: Both his parents were blind and he decided to go to Stanford so he was close to home so he can be also with his parents. Julio A.: And then the Raiders, which obviously, well, that changes. So it's not just Julio Pabón: Yeah, nineteen eighty, bro, raid is two Super Bowls. Julio A.: Tom Flores, it's Tom Flores and Jim Plunkett. That's why the Raiders will always be LA's unofficial team. It all makes sense now. You've got strong Mexican roots. I get it. Julio Pabón: That's that's and that has always been my team. Always been my team. Julio A.: but see, the fact that the NFL doesn't promote Jim Plunkett as a Latino is is intentional. It's part of the pro it's part of the exact same problem we're talking about. It's it's it's this notion that like you can be so I mean they used to have this problem with quarterbacks until you know quarter the best quarterbacks in college were all black and then they started bringing black quarterbacks into the NFL. now Julio Pabón: Right, right. Julio A.: you you basically, you know, it's I I don't even know what what the what the ratio is. I don't know if it's a fifty fifty thing, but like the black quarterbacks are superstars now. And to be a white quarterback is to w at least publicly like through in like in the ethos feels to be in the minority. And yet we still have these problems Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: when it comes to coaches now. Now coaches are having these problems, these barriers, and we're in twenty twenty six. Julio Pabón: That's a different that's a different yeah, that's a and that's a different that's a different level. And unfortunately, that's the problem we have now. And I'm glad that, you know, Flores is taking this to, you know, to the courts and it's not letting down. I'm sure that they've probably made some offers to him. The NFL have probably talked, let's let's negotiate this, you know, and Julio A.: Sure. Julio Pabón: let's talk about this. But, you know, he's sticking to his guns and I think that right. Yeah. Julio A.: They did with Kaepernick. They did with Kaepernick, right? They they and then they got that deal to sign with Jay-Z just to try and clear it all up. And then Kaepernick and Jay-Z had their little side beef. But the NFL's been openly egregiously racist. And this is just another example of that. I don't know, other than to do a full on boycott of Sundays, which Is something they now own, right? It isn't it Sundays are not the church, Julio Pabón: Mm, yeah. Julio A.: the Sundays are the NFL. I don't know how, you know, to penetrate this. I don't know what needs to change systemically, other than a, you know, what they would consider a diversity hire or a panel, or, you know, letting, you know, Brian Flores winning the case and then what? You know, does that open the door for the next person? Like what When does it stop? When does the NFL start respecting? People of color off the field the way they do on the field. They got no problems paying alignment a hundred million dollars. Julio Pabón: Ha ha ha. Julio A.: Or a linebacker or you know, a half a billion dollar contract of you know, Pat Mahomes, who's a black quarterback. So on the Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: field it looks great. what do you you know, the what you know, these guys are all in one and one for all. And then you get to these higher ranks. And then what? It's like Jim Crow all over again? It's like only certain people can cope. Like what what? The idea, the notion that they thought that Brian Flores' character comes into question because of where he was raised is preposterous. I would actually flip that around. I would say if Julio Pabón: Brooklyn. Julio A.: you were raised with a silver spoon in your mouth and you don't know what it is to hustle, and you don't know what it is to have Julio Pabón: That's exactly Julio A.: a job, and you don't know what it is to actually compete for something. With your blood, sweat, and tears, because it is your only option. You ain't a candidate for me. Julio Pabón: That's right. Julio A.: I'd flip that. Julio Pabón: That's right. in organized sports in America, in different levels, I won't say racism all the way, but there is a serious lack of understanding of the sixty sixty million Latino population in the United States. Six a a a serious misunderstanding. For example In baseball, you would argue, Julio A.: Well yeah. Julio Pabón: in baseball you would argue, they're down. They they have so many Latinos. But what they don't understand, and only people like yourself and myself and many others understand, is the fact that of the majority of the Latino players, and there's so many. And if you're watching the wild card, I mean you gotta be checking out even the most lit, the newest kid, you know, Mesa, you know, they they just they're all Hyper, they're exciting to watch. But one thing is, how many of those Latinos who are superstars and playing in Major League Baseball are from the hood? How many are from a place like the South Bronx or East LA or south side of Chicago or South Philly? In baseball. How many? Not many. Julio A.: And baseball specifically? Not many. Not many. Julio Pabón: And not many. So so so I would say. Julio A.: It's not a poor man's sport in ba in in the United States anymore. Julio Pabón: Exactly. So so when I talk to people about understanding the reality of Latinos in baseball today, especially the amount of resources that are given to promote baseball in the Latino communities, it's it's a no-brainer. They don't understand it. They think that there are so many Latinos in baseball, so why should we focus on it? But it's not. You're not focusing on the Latinos that should be focused on. Who are the ones who really need the attention. The majority of the Latinos in baseball are coming from another country, including Puerto Rico. I mean, as much as I love a Carlos Baelga and as much as I love a, you know, some of the stars that we've had, Juan Gonzalez and, you know, and Clemente and them, the bottom line is they really didn't know too much about what it was to be a Latino growing up in the United States in a in a city. That they just don't know. Julio A.: Right. Different circumstance, yeah. Yeah. Julio Pabón: Exactly. Julio A.: where is baseball's Jose Alvarado? Right? Someone who grew up in the project, someone who Julio Pabón: Thank you. Thank you. Julio A.: grew up in New York City housing, someone who went to a good school Julio Pabón: Thank you. That's it. Julio A.: in the United States is English first, Spanish is, you know, a little wonky secondary, Julio Pabón: Secondary, right, right. Julio A.: right? But still got the pride, still got the representation, still feels that, right? Julio Pabón: That's right. Julio A.: Still went through life, like, you know. It like the similar experiences to to other people who feel like second class citizens. Julio Pabón: And that's and that's a and that's a that's a that's a problem that I see. That's a long term problem. Latino sports, we know we've always been hint hinting at it. Julio A.: But baseball's got the RBI, you know, they got the RBI program, CC Sympathian, you know. I'll tell you this, that program doesn't Julio Pabón: Six Julio A.: produce, it doesn't seem to produce the level of anything compared to any program run anywhere in any other country, government funded Julio Pabón: Probably that's a fact. Julio A.: or otherwise. and baseball seems to be pretty content with what I'll call the Julio Pabón: The way things are. Julio A.: Well, it's just the the baseball industrial complex. And baseball used to be well, baseball if you Julio Pabón: I never heard it put that way, but yes. Julio A.: if you want to talk baseball now, but you know, baseball, in my opinion, used to be the America's great equalizer. We don't play soccer. But Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: you know, all you needed was a sponge, you know, a a a bouncy ball, a broomstick, and a manhole, and and you can play a version of baseball and d that's That's why it was our pastime. It wasn't just something that we watched. Julio Pabón: And the ball was a spauldine, by the way. If the ball was a spall dean. Those Julio A.: Maybe your ball was a spawning. but Julio Pabón: guys I know some guys out there who are hearing this saying, yo, he knows, he knows. That was the high bounce. Spaldine. Julio A.: With the scale sees and shit. you know, that that that's why it was a pastime because it was something you did. It wasn't just something you watched. Julio Pabón: Quite. Julio A.: it was an innocence to it that now has been taken away. By the time you're 12 years old, you already know whether you are gonna be in the pipeline or not. And if you are. If you're not just gonna play for recreation and little Johnny gets a home run and everybody gets a hit and you end the game in a tie, then it's competitive. Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: That's it. And if it's competitive, then your kids are are are are doing it every weekend. They're doing it 365 days a year. It's no longer seasonal. It's the only sport you focus on. You've got trainers and coaches, and you eat a certain way, and you, you know, you're being recruited out of middle school to go to a certain high school. It is. The level of competition and the level of industry, right? It is there's an infrastructure behind Julio Pabón: Industry. You're right. Julio A.: all of this now that, like, if you're a Jose Alvarado type, you can't compete with that. You know, whereas in basketball, Julio Pabón: No. Bro, do you know that at the Julio A.: right, you've got these Nike camps, and you've got every individual athlete. Like, you know, Donovan Mitchell has a Donovan Mitchell camp that's just one player. I'm gonna go to the inner city. I'm gonna get the gym. I'm gonna do this stuff, right? So it's not just the Ruckka tournament or like the and what these big names, the McDonald's Julio Pabón: Right. Right. Julio A.: All American. Yes, there, there's there's a there's there's a level of that as well in every sport. But Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: there's still a level of like, okay, well, let's let's let's bring it to the hood. Let's see what we can get. Let's recruit from there as well. And let's bring them into this industrial complex. Let's, right, in a way that baseball is like, if your parents ain't gonna do it. It ain't gonna happen. There is no resource out. Julio Pabón: It's not gonna happen. And let me tell you something. You know, you you know what the average cost is to have a young child, a kid who's in l little league, and you want this kid to be recognized or to be to appear on some spreadsheet that they have in terms of the attributes of this kid, twenty thousand dollars minimum. Julio A.: Per kid per year. Julio Pabón: Per because When they tr you put you have to put on a travel team. That's not free. That's not free. You know, exactly. If you're not a travel team, it exactly. And then to travel, I Julio A.: That's right. That's right. If you're not on a travel that's where it starts. If you're not on a travel team, you're not getting in the p Julio Pabón: don't know if you're gonna have little Johnny, you know, twelve year olds traveling by himself. So what are the parents is taking off from work to go, right? So they have to have the ability, yeah. Hotel, Julio A.: Yeah. And if it's a weekend tournament you're talking hotels, right? It's Julio Pabón: right? So I I got this information from our mechanic, you know, who has a kid who's definitely gonna be going to at least some great division one school in base in baseball. He I've been checking this kid out since he Julio A.: Fingers crossed. Julio Pabón: was since he was a minor. But he told me, he said, Julio, it's costing us anywhere from twenty to twenty five thousand dollars a year that we've been spending since he was like twelve years old. I said, What? Julio A.: But that's not a recreational, you know, discretionary spend. That and that's not fair to the kid because what they're doing is they're that's an investment. They're investing in their child Julio Pabón: No Yes, exactly, exactly. Julio A.: in the possibility that the point one percent he you know gets drafted or goes to the minors, and then out of that another point one percent to make it to the that's an unfair. Stress put on that kid. and even the good ones, it's not even just the stress. Like, should a kid be throwing 365 days a year? Should is there an off-season? is there a Julio Pabón: No. Well how many kids, how many Tommy John, how many Tommy John surgeries already have been performed on high school kids? Maybe, maybe one too many. Tommy John surgeries? Huh. Julio A.: babies. A and it's not it's not right. Maybe one too many. We should do an entire segment on that. I'll get some numbers, but I know it ain't right. And then you get Julio Pabón: Well Julio A.: to the league and then you know it's like every pitcher has to get one now almost, you know? Julio Pabón: It's almost it's almost routine. It's almost and and some of them have gotten two. Julio A.: It's almost routine. You know, I would love to talk to a guy like Pedro or Juan Marichal or Andy Petter or one. Do these gu when these guys were growing up, where's did they play football, baseball, or was it baseball 365, and that's all they did? And they didn't focus on that? Because I have a feeling that like diversity's good. You know, football teaches you how to jute, soccer teaches you Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: how to sprint, baseball teaches you how to quick react. You know, there's all these different Julio Pabón: That's right. Julio A.: They're not, Julio Pabón: That's right. Julio A.: they're these skills that I want to get my kids to learn that one sport can't do alone. Even if I do believe, even if I do believe that that my kids have a gift for a certain sport, you gotta rein that in a little bit. You can't just Julio Pabón: And Julio A.: and what happens, God forbid, going back to your neighbor, Lil Man turns out to be pretty decent. If he puts in the work, he could be great, but he's pretty Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: decent. Julio Pabón: Yes, yes. Julio A.: But he decides at 19, no lo quiero, I don't want it. I just Julio Pabón: Hey, you don't want to do this anymore. Julio A.: don't want it. Like where's that if like does the kid get a say in any of this? Julio Pabón: Listen, you know, you know what, you what I you know what my take on this is? Because we get so many, Julio, we get so many emails and text messages from parents. I just got one day before yesterday. of people, you know, who have a son or daughter. We've had one or two with a with a with a young girl who's a basketball player, who they ask us for advice. You know, how can I help my son? get into a better school or my son plays so well, is there a particular program that I could put him in? And I am at a loss. You know, I all I can do is tell him, listen, because like you said, yes, there is an RBI program. But other than that, and we know that the RBI program is not really putting out Julio A.: Well it's not Babe Ruth, it's not American Legion, it's not Series. Julio Pabón: No, it's it's not it's not pulling out. when was the last time that you saw a a star player coming out of the hood? Bobby Bonilla from the South Bronx? Julio A.: No, no, Curtis Grandison. Julio Pabón: Porque no, I'm so latino. Julio A.: Mm. Julio Pabón: I mean, you do have Carlos Rodon, who's Cuban, came out of Miami, right? Julio A.: That doesn't necessarily mean hood though. Miami's got a strong Miami's got a strong system going. Cause Lindor came out of Miami. Baez came out of Miami. Machado came out of Miami. No, that's different. No, that's different. Julio Pabón: You have exactly, that's what I'm saying. And and and I and I can and that's and there's and there's a few that came out of Miami. Miami, exactly, exactly. Exactly. So you hit it, you hit it. But how many how do we have kids that play ball in South Philly? In East LA? Julio A.: your boy, your boy, Tampa Bay Rays. He's playing right now. he went to Fordham. Fucking he's he's he's Brooklyn. Nick Nick Nick Martinez. Nick Martinez. Julio Pabón: yeah, what the photo? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Brooklyn. Brooklyn. Yes. Okay. But that's Julio A.: But that's you know, I shouldn't have to think so hard. Right? If you go to the NFL, you go to the NBA, Julio Pabón: Thank you, thank you, that's my point. Julio A.: you say name a player from the hood, you know, I can name an entire starting five almost, right? Julio Pabón: Thank you. That's my point. Julio A.: no I hear you. I hear you. Julio Pabón: And that's and at at some point I I think we should do a segment. Julio A.: You're not wrong. Julio Pabón: that's that's the other part, Julio, that if you don't have someone who's retired, who went through experiences that we just finished talking about from the you know inner cities of New York of the United States, can you really expect them to promote baseball within that circle to bring it down to this level? I don't think so. So yeah, I hey listen, I I I love Albert Pujols. Julio A.: I have no faith. Julio Pabón: Albert Pujols is, you know, he's he's he he's like so close to us, right? Julio A.: Another legend. Sure. Julio Pabón: And he's right now working for MLB. He's an ambassador. Julio A.: Yes he is. Julio Pabón: But does he know what's happening in the cities? I don't think so. Julio A.: Well, I would say for the fact that he lived for what is it, nine, ten, eleven years in St. Louis? Like hopefully. But did what d is that a shared experience that he would have with someone like that, where he could talk to them and politic with them and say, Look, I I get it, you know, I feel you and No. No. Julio Pabón: No, no, no. Liv living living as a baseball star in any city in the United States as a baseball star doesn't have doesn't give you any insight into what's really happening in that city. Julio A.: That that that is also true. You gotta go and make the effort. You gotta go and make Julio Pabón: You gotta make the effort. I think Major League Baseball understands and they try, but they don't understand what we're saying. They think that by hiring someone like Albert Pujols or by hiring another a top Latino who who's retired to come and advise them on the Latino situation with in the United States, they're missing the boat. That's why it took so long to get accents. Julio A.: You know, they try. You gotta give them a little bit of credit. They had those, you know, you know, Josue baseball, you know, commercials with Marcel, the Prakatai, and the Fuacata, and the Placata. You know, they they try. El flow, Julio Pabón: And and the flow and the flow Julio A.: right? They you know, they got the flow. it was pretty flawless, but you know, somebody's in that office telling them that this is this is how to do it. I I just think it's not that difficult. They all talk to each other. Billionaires talk to billionaires. I don't understand how the commissioners just can't talk and say, how do you do it? Because if if if nothing else, the NBA has this very, I don't want to say laid back, because it's not laid back. It's very corporate, but they have this very like go increase the popularity of the game by increasing your own brand. Become a brand. Go be LeBron James and say something on social media. Go talk about Black Lives Matter. Because even if someone doesn't agree with it, they're gonna see you in a fucking uniform and they're gonna tune in. Julio Pabón: That's right. Julio A.: right. And so go go be you. Go be you and it it it it works. You know, you've and and the NBA is now on a global scale that Major League Baseball outside of the WBC cannot touch. Cannot touch. Kobe was as big, you know, in China as he was in the United States. Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: Now now that's listen to that statement. That's that's they he doesn't play in China, Julio Pabón: That's it Julio A.: you know, but it but it didn't matter because the NBA is that global because their stars are allowed to be them Julio Pabón: Who they are. Julio A.: who they are, right? Meanwhile, in football, you're still getting fined. you know, for for having a sp a a certain kind of touchdown dance. So you can't take off your helmet and show your face. In baseball, you know, they're not gonna promote shit out of you until it's like, Julio Pabón: they they criticize. No. Julio A.: you know, until they have to. It's like, we'll do the Pink Bat on Mother's Day. We'll do the Latino Award in September. And and you know, in one Julio Pabón: And that's it. Julio A.: in one stadium we'll do LGBTQ night, even if the pitchers don't want it. and that's it. You know, kumbaya ever everybody's happy. Julio Pabón: That's it. That's it. And and you know, baseball because they're so conservative. They're so conservative. You know, Julio A.: It's so backwards. Julio Pabón: b bottom line is that it's not it's not evenly written out. once you're an owner, the owner and the team has so much you know, rights within themselves, there's nothing standard. From Major League Baseball on down. Major League Baseball basically is the all-star game and postseason. Everything in between is the team. It's Julio A.: Teams. Julio Pabón: the team and the owners, you know, how many beers they sell, whatever, you know, hot dogs that sell, how many people they bring into the attendance. So every team is like this. Because we noticed that when we were given the opportunity to start going around presenting all Latino MVP awards, we noticed that in some teams we went there. my God. And they were like super open to us, you know, like, hey, come on in. You know, we heard about you. You know, we're ready for you. Blah, blah, blah. You're gonna be here, blah, blah, blah. They treat you. We went to other teams and then you know what was going on. I'll never forget. I'll never forget when we went to to the Dodge the first time we went to Dodgers Stadium, not this one. This one was pretty good. You you you happened to be with us on this one for Edwin Diaz, right? Which was not even an award for him being with the Dodgers. It was an award for him being with the Mets. Julio A.: Right. The following year. Julio Pabón: But they've but but they've come a long way because at least in this one, they were at least, you know, they were open. They they they were the ones who invited us. You know, they gave us the date way ahead. But I remember when we went years ago and we gave an award to Julio Urias won the Latino MVP pitcher of the year where we went to give him the award. And this is this is a true story. I go. To LA to the Dodgers Stadium, and I'm downstairs and we're getting ready to do the award. But you know, it's gonna be in the evening, so I have time. I go upstairs to the cafeteria. And I want to get something to eat. And guess who's sitting in one of the tables in the cafeteria? It the the the Latino legend in baseball for the Dodgers. Who's a Latino legend? The guy who brought back baseball for Latinos to the Dodgers. Julio A.: Fernando Julio Pabón: Valenzuela, right? Julio A.: Sure. Julio Pabón: Right? So I see Fernando Valenzuela. I had never met this man, but I've heard so much about him as a fan in the East Coast when it was Fernando Mania, right? that this is the first time I'm actually seeing him in person as an adult. So I walk up to the table and I didn't want to interrupt him, but I said, you know, Fernando, my name is Julio Paon. I just want to tell you, man, you know, thank you so much for the beautiful times that you gave us, you know. feeling proud of who you know we are you as a Latino blah blah blah. So he said, hey, sit down. He says, so where are you from? And I told him I'm from New York. He says, so what are you doing here? And I said, we're giving an award to Julio Urias. He said, what? An award? He said, yeah, what award? I said, well, this is the Latino MVP Award, one of the most prestigious awards, the most prestigious award given to Latino. He says, you would think that I as an announcer for the Dodgers should know about that. I didn't know about that. That was it was like Boom. It's like, and that's what's happening with amongst other teams. And one of the things that I've noticed throughout is that there is this uneven development within Major League Baseball. And not only that, but then because of the changes these days, where they have a lot of interns come in working with media, you know, especially media since it's high tech. It's not a coaching position. It's not something that you come up from the ranks, you know, you have to play baseball to know. It's like the people in the analytics department. You know, you don't have to play baseball. You just gotta know math, right? And these Julio A.: Right, right. Julio Pabón: people now have a very prestigious position. You know, it's power shift. A power shift has Julio A.: Mm-hmm. Julio Pabón: taken place within baseball. People that didn't have experience but do have now some power. Same thing with the media. People who work the social media, people who work the their TikTok, people who work their Instagram pages, whatever. Julio A.: Their own personal brands. Julio Pabón: They're all personal brands. And that is not That's not good for baseball because it's not promoting them. It just promotes the player when they do something, but not beyond the foul pole. Nothing. Nothing beyond the foul pole. Maybe they'll go and do something in the community. They'll they'll put that on. Other than that, have you ever heard anything like you have heard before about Kobe and China or you know, Capernick and you what and the NFL or stuff like that? You don't hear about it. Very rarely do you hear anything, and that's because baseball. Julio A.: No, it just started with Shohei. It just started with Shohei. And and even that, like he is he is better he is the best player in a century. You know how I feel about Shohei. I feel like every podcast I do a little Shohei waxing. I love the man. Julio Pabón: Are you f are you feel upset that he might be benched today? Julio A.: We'll get to that. But I'm even more upset that the only commercials I ever see with him are New Balance commercials. Why does MLB not know how to promote a once-in-a-century player? He should be on every Wheaties box in America. He should be on every Gatorade commercial. You know, he should be opening up the world to Japanese culture here in the United States in a way that we've never seen before. We should see kids in the middle Of Ohio wearing shohei jerseys because he is that level of talent. He is LeBron. We are living through that generation and MLB doesn't know to do it. So I would I agree Julio Pabón: Yeah. I would I would agree. Julio A.: with you. I agree with you. MLB has a problem. I don't think, and I I don't think it's limited to just Latinos. They have a diversity marketing problem. If it isn't home runs or strikeouts, if it Julio Pabón: That's a good way of putting it, I believe. You're right. Julio A.: isn't about the bat and the ball, they have no idea what to do with you. Julio Pabón: Ha ha ha. Julio A.: You have a guy like Shohei who single-handedly is bringing an entire continent to the Dodgers so that they're printing money and MLB hasn't figured out how to take that popularity and suck it for all it's worth, like they do everything else in corporate America in the United States. The fact that Shohei isn't a Beatle is is beyond comprehension. Julio Pabón: W but you say that a lot. Yeah, you're right. Julio A.: It's it's beyond comprehension. You he should be the kind of guy where you you can't, you know, meet paparazzi should be all over him. You know, we should know about his love life. you know what I mean? We know about Travis Julio Pabón: Ha ha Julio A.: Kelsey because of Taylor Swift. Swi Taylor Swift has brought NFL fans, fans to the NFL that traditionally would never have watched an NFL game. Julio Pabón: Yeah, it's true. Julio A.: Shohei can do that for the sport. it is beyond comprehension to me that we're in twenty twenty six and we're still having these conversations. Julio Pabón: It's it's it's it's hard to believe, but it all comes back to the beginning of this segment when we started talking about what was happening with Flores. Julio A.: Brian Flores. Brian Flores. That is it it we Julio Pabón: It's it's unfortunate. Julio A.: just went through every level of of systemic racism in sports, starting with the lawsuit Julio Pabón: Ha Julio A.: going all the way to a generational talent that they don't know how to market. i i in other news. I don't even know if I want to get to this segment because it's Well, let's just say I'm glad I'm not a betting man. Because I would have lost all my money. The Dodgers are 0 and 2 in a best of seven with Yamamoto losing a game that I thought the Julio Pabón: That was Julio A.: Dodgers absolutely had to come away with after having lost the first one. I d Are the Dodgers done? I'll tell you that before you answer that question, let me tell you this. The game looked to me Julio Pabón: I was ready. Julio A.: like a game of it was it was it wasn't just two teams. It was a very young team. And that young team made the Dodgers look very, very aged and old. And I don't know if the Dodgers are actually done, but they look done to me. Your thoughts. Julio Pabón: And you and and you follow the Dodgers to the TV because that's your man, Otani. And for you Julio A.: Amen. Julio Pabón: to say that, for you to say that, you know, obviously, I know how you've been you how how you must be feeling because it it it seemed that way. I I'm not I haven't seen enough Dodger games to be able to, you know, evaluate. Julio A.: Bo you've seen the playoffs. Julio Pabón: But I see the playoffs and I've seen, you know, some of the players that they have, like Muki Betts, you know, I've seen, you know, I know Julio A.: Freddie. Julio Pabón: I know Tani, I know about Hernandez. You know, I I know these players, but I saw some plays. Julio A.: To Osker, Andy Pares. Julio Pabón: I saw some plays that it it almost look like it wasn't the top team that you know you would think that would be. Some errors, some misplays, not following through on certain things that and then these guys just kept on running and hitting and running and hitting and running and hitting on the Dodgers. Like it was like was there any stopping to this? You're right. It looked like there was an older team playing against a bunch of young kids who were just having fun and just getting every opportunity that they could to score a run. They were scoring it. And every opportunity they can to strike out or to keep O'Dani like what? He's a O and what now? He's O for a lot, is right. Julio A.: I for a lot. I know that I know he hasn't hit a home run since August, but I mean they're talking about benching him. And Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: and the fact that he had to come out and this is the drama around the baseball of Shohei, but you know, he had to come out and say, or Dave Roberts had to come out and say that Shohei was basically fighting for his own spot. He was saying that he's close. He feels really close. that's tough. Man, for a guy that's brought you two championships basically in his first two years as a Dodger, two MVPs, 50-50 club, goes through one bad stretch of a postseason. And now we're just talking about benching the guy. But the fact of the matter is, is that benching him or not, the Dodgers are just not scoring and they're not looking, you Julio Pabón: Yeah, it's not just him. Julio A.: know, even when they did score in that game, they their four runs were on no hits. There were a bunch of errors by the Brewers, which is very, very unconventional for the Brewers. They're a good fielding team. But they didn't, they didn't manufacture these runs, and they're not smashing home runs like they did against the Yankees last year in the World Series. These hits are hard to come by for the Dodgers right now. Julio Pabón: Yeah. Yeah. Julio A.: Your best hitter is Kyle Tucker, and you got him planted in the eighth spot. you know, you're not your your pitching is doing what they can, but your relief is not. You know, they're they're just let me rephrase that. The stars have come out for the Milwaukee Brewers in a way that the stars have not come out for the Dodgers yet. We need Mookie, Freeman, Shohei to show up, score some runs in a way that Jackson Churio and your boy, who you've been saying for a long time, your boy Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: Contreras, I have to admit it now, is he is he the best catcher, maybe top two catcher in baseball? Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: I mean, what he did the other day, man, his his hitting, throwing out runners, calling good games, the his his challenges have been on point. he is locked in. He is locked in in a way Julio Pabón: Yes, yes, yes. He's major he's won the majority of the challenges. Yeah. He he has a good eye. Julio A.: that, you know, that that's the kind of mojo in in in Spanish we call it Sassong. That's the kind of Sassong that can that can that can really carry Julio Pabón: It Julio A.: a team. Julio Pabón: it gives it the flavor, baby. It gives it the flavor. Julio A.: It it can carry a team. And you know, they got two games coming up in in LA, right? One Julio Pabón: Nelly. Julio A.: and two, then three and four. I think there is no pressure on the if they walk away one out of two wins in LA, they're good. Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: Go back home, win it at home in front of your fans. Julio Pabón: Yeah. It's it's no, Julio A.: It's Julio Pabón: I'm telling but aside from that, the fact is that the games have been very, very, very, very exciting. I mean, you see you seen Tampa and and and and Cleveland. Julio A.: Well, that's my favorite series right now. For all the surprises that you've seen, Julio Pabón: That's where boom, boom, boom, boom. Julio A.: that's my favorite series. I honestly think Julio Pabón: That's a toss up, bro. Julio A.: Yeah, but I was actually going to take it a step further. I think I think I think whoever comes out of the American League is gonna be tough. But I will say, I think that I think the I think this might be the Rays here. The Rays just Julio Pabón: I think so too. I was about to say the same thing. Julio A.: look, and you've been again, you called it, you're a baseball guy, you know what you see, you've been saying it since the summer. They just are, I don't know what word they they they're they're pesky. On the base bats, man. My god. You know, they just manufacture Julio Pabón: The newest edition, right? At the at the Victor Peña, what Mesa, Victor Mesa, right? Victor Victor Mesa, you know, Julio A.: these runs. Julio Pabón: he's the most pesky guy. He gets on base. Julio A.: Mesa. He's got wheels, man. Julio Pabón: Bro, he can you see his arm? Julio A.: Yeah, he's got a gun too! Julio Pabón: He threw he threw that he threw a line drive to second base from the deep part of right field, bro. No bound. A line Julio A.: I I don't Julio Pabón: drive. And then when he gets on base, he's like, he reminds me of these kids, Desinquietos. You know, a very Desinquieto kid. He's like jumping Julio A.: Yeah. Julio Pabón: all over the place. He's trying to get the pitcher's attention. You know, he's like. I mean, I just love watching them and and him, I can't I can't wait to unfortunately we're not in Tampa because I would like to have talked to him and let him know that how we saw him when he was a pre-teenager in Cuba with his brother and his father, who who was a legend, Julio A.: That's right. Running around on the field. Running around on the field. Julio Pabón: who was a legend. His father's a legend in Cuba. You know, his father's the reason why a lot of other players who were playing shortstop defected because they knew they could never make the national team as long as Victor Mesa was the shortstop. You know, that's how good his father was. And Julio A.: Well, he he's he's got I think because he's the youngest of all of them, maybe he's got the most tools because everybody was touting his brother a as the one. Yes. He th d El El Pekingito, yeah. Julio Pabón: yeah. No, but his father, you remember? His father told us in Cuba on the field when we were talking about his brother, he said, No, Aquele Hel que tienen que veral, aquel and he kept on pointing to him, this little kid, younger kid who was not in the team yet. He but he was in some little league for Cuba or whatever. And he said, Julio A.: Yep. Julio Pabón: Aquela hay que queberal and he was right. He was right. Julio A.: I mean, how do you think the Marlins feel for trading him? They traded him in Oct in February of this year. Julio Pabón: ho ho ho ho ho ho Julio A.: and and now he's, you know, on the other Florida team. Julio Pabón: Yo, and and kudos to to kudos to di Derek Jeter. Kudos to Derek Jeter. Julio A.: Yeah, well he figured ep I'm in Miami, I might have that Cuban pipeline down, but you know, they can't keep Julio Pabón: Which by the way, Julio, before before anything else, I just looked up the number the the the top jerseys sold in the United States. Number one is Shohei Otani. Number two is Aaron Judge. Number three is Pete Crow Armstrong. All right, number four is Ronald Agunha. Number Julio A.: Who didn't even play? PCA. PCA. He's gonna win the MVP this year. Look at that. Julio Pabón: five is Fernando Tatis. Six, Julio A.: Look at Julio Pabón: Freddie Freeman. Seven, Bryce Harper, eight, Julio A.: Harbor. Julio Pabón: Mookie Betts. Nine, Yoshinobu, Yamamoto, and number Julio A.: So many dodgers on that list. Julio Pabón: ten. I'm ending in number ten. One soto. Julio A.: I guess if you're a Dominican on the East Coast and you're you know, you could be a methant for Wasoto, but what's Julio Pabón: They go all the way to the to twenty, the top twenty. Julio A.: the discr do they have the actual numbers? What's the discrepancy between one and two? What's the Julio Pabón: Let me see right now. Julio A.: difference between Shohei and Judge? Julio Pabón: That's good question. Julio A.: 'Cause I bet it's not even close. I would venture to say it's not even close. It's like Shohei and then the rest of the field is what is my guess. but you see what I'm saying? He's number one Julio Pabón: Yeah. They're not giving us any numbers here. Julio A.: jersey seller in MLB. Julio Pabón: Yeah, number one. Julio A.: And they have no idea how to have no idea how to market They have no idea. You would never I would never know that. I would never know that. Julio Pabón: Yeah. That's why I had to look it up because I figured, damn, this guy has like he gets all his attention, but it must be the majority of the his jerseys must be sold in California. Cause I've never seen a Shohei Otani jersey outside Julio A.: Like why w yeah. Like Julio Pabón: in outside in and outside of California. I think I saw in New York City when they came to play the Mets. I did see, you know, some Shohei. Julio A.: There's no I'd have had I'd have had Shohei and his translator hosting SNL by now. Poking fun at Julio Pabón: Ha ha ha. Julio A.: the fact that he can't speak King. Like I would have done all so much shit with him already. you Julio Pabón: You're right. You're right. Julio A.: know what I mean? This is the this is your guy. Why is he not on Kimball? Why is he, you know what I mean? You got Kike. I Kike. Kike's the man. Kike's the legend in my house. Kika's like Bodigwa number one. But Kike ain't Shohei. You got they win a fucking title and you got Kike talking to Colbert? Like. Get show hand his translator up there. I'm sure you can figure out some comedic bits for him. Julio Pabón: And and and Kikit Kikit doesn't appear in the top twenty jerseys sold. He doesn't appear. Julio A.: Kika's not a top 20 jersey seller. I love Kika, but come on, man. We talk about Shohei, bro. Just like having Babe Rufus like, sorry, you can't talk to him. You don't speak English? What kind of shit is that? it's still it's stupid. It's Julio Pabón: Yeah, it's crazy. Julio A.: stupid. And it goes again, this that's like that archaic thought. That like, you know, goes back to like being Latino, which is why Clemente felt the need in 1971 to be like, hold on, Bobby, let me talk to my family in Spanish for a second. Because it's that important, because everybody thought, and even when he did talk, he had a slight accent, but his accent was pretty fucking good. Everyone talks about his accent. I thought his accent was really good. He but Julio Pabón: Yeah. It's just that, the reporters just made fun of it by, you know r writing exactly like he would say and it and if you write it the way it sounds on on on print, it makes you look stupid because it's like the word is not correct. The grammar. Julio A.: Right, because they did that yeah, yeah. And incidentally, not to go into a whole other conversation, but why there should be unity between the races in these sports. Because journalists still do that today with black players from the hood. Who speak what they would consider grammatically incorrect. They'll say it exactly as they speak it. They'll write it exactly like that. Instead of writing the context or putting the and or putting the of or putting the one thing that would make that sentence grammatically, Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: you know. No, they're gonna say it and sometimes even spell it the way you say it. So that hasn't changed at all. If the guy's Julio Pabón: No. Julio A.: like, nah, the homie, they'll spell it D-A instead of T-H-E. Like they'll do shit like that. Julio Pabón: The home, Julio A.: And so I don't know how this whole episode ended up being about race, but you know we we keep going back to it. It was we keep going back to it. Julio Pabón: You 'cause it started it started with race and you know, we're living in tumultuous times in the United States, Julio. You know, you can feel it you can feel it at the Julio A.: Listen, I all I wanted to talk about was the Dodges. Julio Pabón: West Coast. I can feel it here in the East Coast, now in Puerto Rico. Julio A.: You never answered the question. Are Wow. Julio Pabón: I think that dodgers are not gonna come out of this. even though they do have the sprinkling of Kike. I saw Kike at one of the the cameras went into the the the dugout and they just scanned and I saw Kike's face, you know, he's like, you know, how come I'm not playing? You know, he put me in there or whatever. But I could see the faces in there and it it just looked there was something missing. There was something missing. And sometimes, you know, I go with feelings, I go with, you know, energy and I just don't know. The only person that there's that's consistent is Roberts. You know, he's Julio A.: Well, let me ask you this. Well, Kyle Tucker also, I mean, well, you mean you mean consistently emotion-wise. Yes. Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: Dave Roberts has a poker face. He's wonderful at that. That's what makes him a great manager. Underrated manager, to be honest with you. It's hard to have 22 alphas on a team and make it work. Like you you got an MVP over there, greatest player ever over there, you got Mookie over there. It's a lot. you've seen a lot of Dynasties in your life, especially as a Yankee fan. You you've seen the 50s, you live through the 50s, you live through the 70s, you live through the 90s when you know the Mariano Jeter years. is there a is there a lack of hunger chasing a third title? Or let me rephrase the question: Is the hunger as great going for a three-peat as it is for the Brewers trying to go for the first time after? Julio Pabón: I think that you you you hit it on the head. I think that you know making history when you have made history already, when you have party already, when you already have two rings, when you've already had two humongous ceremonies, you've had incredible parades, and you're making some good money, right? as opposed to a team that has never been to the World Series. I don't think Milwaukee has been to a World Series. The Brewers I know the Brewers were good when they were before the let me see. Julio A.: They went in nineteen eighty two one time. And they lost to the Julio Pabón: Okay. They went to the World Series but they didn't win. Julio A.: they did not. They lost they lost to the St. Louis Cardinals in nineteen eighty two with Robin Young on the team. Julio Pabón: Which which I believe is the same thing with Julio A.: Raleigh fingers, Don Sutton, Robin Yao, Paul Molliter. That's not a bad team. But yeah, they only went once and they Julio Pabón: Yeah, which is Julio A.: lost. Julio Pabón: which is the same thing I believe with Tampa Bay. Tampa Julio A.: It's the same thing. Julio Pabón: Bay has been to the World Series, but they've never won a World Series. Julio A.: Tempe Faye went twice and lost. Julio Pabón: twice and lost. So, you know, Julio A.: Twice at last. Julio Pabón: and and the pi and the players that are there now had nothing to do with that. So they just want to make history for themselves. So the answer to your question, Julio, I believe is I believe it's that. I believe that that the Brewers Julio A.: The hunger's not there. Julio Pabón: the Brewers have it's like, you know, remember one time we were talking about I think it was Che wee daughters. He told us about boxers, right? And he says, and we were talking about, you know, these upcoming boxers coming from Mexico and whatever. And he says that when you get a boxer who's been sleeping on a sack, you know, as a sheet in Mexico, and in a gym where they have no air conditioning and they have nothing, and that boxer's so hungry, you know, he when he gets into that ring, boy, he's giving it all he got. But sometimes that boxer, once he makes that million or stuff, and he's now sleeping no longer on burlap and he's sleeping on satin Julio A.: Comfortable. Mm. Julio Pabón: sheets. And he's sleeping, you know, and everybody's paying attention to him and he don't pay because he's the star. You know, when you go back in that ring, you know, I don't know if you got that same fire in you. And and and I think that that's to some degree what I see happening right now with the brewers and LA. I think LA has all the ingredients, they have all the power, they have the people, mean they have the stars, but it it it's not igniting in them. As opposed to the Brewers that, Julio A.: Agreed. Julio Pabón: you know, they they're at another level, man. And I think that that's not gonna be taken away from them. They are super hungry. They'll take that extra step to steal second. They'll they'll take that extra, you know, they'll they'll go for that, you know, double when it's really a single that you should stay on first, you know. they'll do that bunt when you don't expect it, you know, jet Julio A.: They'll do that, but Julio Pabón: just to move the guy over. They'll sacrifice a hit. Just to move a guy 60 feet over, 90 feet over, right? So I don't know. I I like the game, I'm I'm enjoying them. seeing, seeing two different dynamics, and I'm learning as I go along because I again I see some things that I said, did they just do that? Julio A.: You know, I I I I will say having lived through my Yankees having their dynasty and actually three Peting. There is a level of like fuck you, kinda, that you gotta have when you've already won two. There's gotta be a reason. There's gotta be a chip on that show. Everybody hates us. Let's let's give them a reason to hate us more, kind of thing. We Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: were the evil empire, and instead of shying away from it, we embraced that shit. You know what I mean? And we were shut down in in that way. I Don't see that right now out of the Dodgers, but I'll tell you this. I saw some internal turmoil that I don't know if it was just my personal eye test or if there's something actually lurking underneath. But the manager, Dave Roberts, and Will Smith were not on the same page. I saw a little thing between Will Smith and Yamamoto where Yamamoto really wanted a strike. He wanted Will Smith to like go and You know, what are you pro to challenge the call? It was Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: early in the game. Will Smith didn't do it. Turned out to be the inning that got Yamamoto out the game. The fact that Dave Roberts had to address that, which is such an infinitesimal little detail, but when you're the Dodgers or when you're the Yankees, those little things get magnified, especially in a loss. Julio Pabón: True. Julio A.: They got punched in the mouth. They walked into this series thinking this is the exact same series that we had last year when we went to the World Series. This is gonna be us like we cruised through the regular season to get here. We Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: didn't have to have the best record, even though we had the best team on paper. We didn't have to have the best rotation, even though on paper we had the best rotation. We kind of just like cruised our way through. we made the second seed, right? So we were, we were, we had the bye. We Julio Pabón: We got the ingredients to win, so we're ready. Julio A.: got the ingredients to win. We've done this before. We're gonna go out there, we're gonna do it. And in the first two games, they got they got punched in the faith. I'll tell you this. Julio Pabón: Bing, bang. Tang tang. Julio A.: I don't know what was said on that plane ride home, but you know the Dodgers have a plane. That's just for the players. And then a plane Julio Pabón: Private plane. Right. Julio A.: that's for everybody else. Press, trainers, Dave Roberts. Dave Roberts does not ride the plane with the players. Julio Pabón: it's interesting. I didn't know that. Julio A.: He does not. He he rides separately. The players have a player's plane. Somebody Julio Pabón: Interesting. Julio A.: needs to step up on that plane ride. I don't know if that plane ride resulted in a team fight, but I hope it did. Because Julio Pabón: Ha ha. Julio A.: that's the kind of shit that brings people together. They need to come together and block out all the noise. Come home and take care of business. And because of that, because I think that did happen, I have no reason or evidence. I Julio Pabón: You think it did? Why do you why do you think it did? Julio A.: Because that team has a bunch of dogs and they got punched in the face. Because they walked in there thinking they can cruise and they walked out there like, shit, we down 0-2 to these bums. Like we're the fucking dodge like somebody on that team, we're the Dodgers. What are we doing? Julio Pabón: I can see that. Yeah, I could see that. On a plane that says nobody. Yep. Yep. Julio A.: And and somebody needs to step up, and you maybe, and maybe you step up to the wrong guy. Maybe you stepped up to show. Yo, Show, what the fuck? You gotta step. And the show is, you know, steps up, and then somebody defends, somebody comes in. Maybe Julio Pabón: Ha Julio A.: the translator tries to come in and get snuffed by mistake, and you got a team, bro. I think that's what they needed. Let's get that out there. You know what I Julio Pabón: And the plane is rocking. Julio A.: mean? The plane is rocking. They got all everybody's hairs, all messed up. People's collars are up here. But you know, Dave Roberts don't ask no questions. That's what I'm hoping happened and they come home and take care of business. Cause true champions don't go out like this. Julio Pabón: That's a possibility, Julio. That's a true. I mean, knowing baseball. No. And knowing baseball and knowing the egos. Julio A.: Yeah. Julio Pabón: the key thing is that no coaches and and and the managers not there and no reporters, just the players by themselves Julio A.: Just you. Julio Pabón: on a plane ride. it was I just can't believe, yeah. Julio A.: Man and a on a long play run from Milwaukee to Julio Pabón: and I have to give it to you. That's a good scenario. I can't believe that that was a quiet, you know, one hour, two hour, three-hour ride, whatever it was, from from Julio A.: That is not a choir riot. Julio Pabón: Milwaukee to LA. I don't think it was that quiet. It wasn't like a church, you know, traveling on a plane. No, no. I I think that Julio A.: It's not like I'm gonna put on my headphones and go to sleep. No, you're not. We're gonna we're gonna talk about this. Julio Pabón: there must have been some folks up there that. Said something, screamed Julio A.: Think so. Julio Pabón: something. and that that hopefully, and if let me tell you something, we'll see them the first few innings tonight. Well, when I we'll know, yeah, right. First, Julio A.: Well no. Well no. I agree. Quickly. Julio Pabón: first few innings, you could tell if there was some fire lit on the butts of these guys in LA, or it's done. It's done. Julio A.: It's over. It's done. It's done. And and for the Brewers, you walk away from LA winning one out of two. Like, as long as you don't let LA come back both games. If you win one out of two in LA, you're golden. You got three games to figure it out. You're gonna be okay. But but but you let you let them come back. You let them come back in this series, you let the LA crowd get to you, you let the the the pitching you made fun of Kike before, but you know, playoff Kike can come in and do something and and and Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: that all it takes is one thing. How many times have we seen it? my my son, you know, and I watch a lot of baseball together, and he is now starting to believe in curses because he sees it. He'll see it. We'll watch a whole game and he'll know the moment. He'll be like, you know, a stupid error on an easy play. Or You know, a boneheaded, you know, Jazz Chisholm does something and it's like, you shouldn't have, you know, he'll look at him be like, the tide just turned. Julio Pabón: Wh which by the way, that that was what happened yesterday, right? Julio A.: And it's a real that's a real thing. That's a real thing in baseball. A tie can Jose Ramirez is the most sure handed Julio Pabón: I know that was about to say that. That under he underneath his legs, this is a show enough. Julio A.: That is a he makes that play 99 times out of a hundred. It's not a hard play. Julio Pabón: Yes, no, no, no. It went right through his legs and then that opened up the front gates. Julio A.: Opened it right up. The winds changed, and that that's all it takes. And did they score again the rest of the game? No. Julio Pabón: It opened up the floodgates. That's right. No. And basically they won on what three on arm runs? Julio A.: Three unearned runs because of an error and timely hitting. That's it. That's it. Julio Pabón: Yeah, yeah. Julio A.: And in base and and in and in in playoff baseball, that sometimes that's all it takes. How many times people remember Jeter coming out of nowhere in Oakland, grabbing that ball, backhanding it basically to Jorge Jorge Posada, catches Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: it and tags Gianpi, who doesn't slide. Everybody remembers that play, right? They call it the catch because he comes out of nowhere. Shane Spencer, I think, is secretly playing for the A's and wants to throw it into the fucking stands. Jeter Julio Pabón: Ha ha Julio A.: comes out of nowhere, grabs it, throws it up. People, that game, that game was one-nothing. Julio Pabón: Wow, I forgot. Julio A.: That game has 1-0. In the playoffs, you don't you're not gonna score seven runs, even if you are the Dodge, maybe one game out of a series. You're not gonna blow anyone out the water. They're there because they have good pitching. They're there because they have good relief. They're there because they know Julio Pabón: Good pitching. Pitching is everything. Julio A.: how to close a game. So if you are gonna give them any glimpse, if you can't play perfect baseball, if you're gonna give them an error, if you're gonna give them a walk. You saw what happens when you give them an error and a walk. They're going to steal, then they're going to throw Julio Pabón: Then I still. Julio A.: the ball, and then that's you know, next thing you know, you're down. Jeter had a good comment on it in one of his postgame commentaries, but he was like, you know, they're always talking about the brewers manufacturing runs, playing small ball. That's just baseball. That's just the way you're supposed to play. A guy gets on second base, you bun him over to third, you get a fly ball, you give up two outs, but you get the run-in. Julio Pabón: Right. Julio A.: You don't wait for the home run. You don't wait for the you know the two run shot in the ninth. No, you manufacture it when you can. You got a guy on second, you got no outs, get him over. It Julio Pabón: Unless you're the Yankees always rooting to t always trying to go for the home run. Julio A.: Well that's that's gonna be a it's gonna be our downf I mean it's why we haven't won anything, you know. you think the Dodgers are done, you got the Brewers. You got the Brewers tonight in game three, regardless of the series. You got Brewers in game three. Wow. Julio Pabón: I got yes. I got the Brewers at game three. And I got Tampa again. Julio A.: I got I got the Dodgers winning today at home. The Dodgers are gonna win at home. And I kinda have to agree with you. I think Tampa is gonna win in Cleveland in their first NLCS, ALCS in I don't know how many years. it's gonna be a great homecoming for them. Jose Ramirez is gonna get a big standing They're probably gonna have Jim Tomey throw out the first pitch. And then it's all downhill once the game starts. I think Tampa based too much. I think they're gonna Julio Pabón: We will see. Cleveland does have some surprises. Sometimes they come out. And Jose Ramirez, he's the firecracker. He's their clemented. He's the guy that can put that team on his back and make something happen. He's that guy. If he can, if he can snap Julio A.: All right. I wanna do a Julio Pabón: it, I think he'll ill it'll work on Cleveland's benefit. But we shall see. We shall see. Julio A.: So your original prediction, I'm just gonna say your original prediction, which is one that you thought MLB wanted the least, but your original prediction was brewer's raise. Are you sticking to Brewer's Raise? Julio Pabón: Yes. Julio A.: Think you're I think you're gonna be one step closer after today. I think that I think I think Cleveland is gonna lose, but I think my Dodgers are still gonna hold out. I have the Dodgers, and as much as I want Cleveland, I want to see Jose Ramirez in a World Series against the Dodgers. I think that would be incredible. I don't think it's gonna happen tonight, and I don't think it's gonna happen. Julio Pabón: Do you think that if Milwaukee and Tampa go to the World Series, even though it's not a it's gonna be a financial you know loss for Major League Baseball in terms of their projections for ad monies, but but Julio A.: At least at least it'll go seven. Julio Pabón: but don't you think that that might help in the maybe there won't be a lockout? Because it'll show that you know minor league teams, you know, teams that don't have a lot of money can still overpower teens with a lot of money and Julio A.: it's this offseason's not about free agents. This offseason is about whether we're gonna have baseball next year or not. So I I I want to save some of that. That said, since you brought it up, in case people haven't noticed. Three of the four teams that are left are in the bottom ten in Major Julio Pabón: Thank you. Julio A.: League Payroll. And then there's the number one team in Major League Payroll, which is Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: I don't know how that looks to the actual billionaires in the room that are arguing Julio Pabón: I just think that's so much fun. Julio A.: this, but it is there is something to be said that three of the four teams that are left intentionally don't spend that much money. Are you banging on a microphone or something? Julio Pabón: No, I'm just I'm just nervous because you just raising some put you you just some points Julio A.: I know, you feel nervous. You got nervous energy right now. Julio Pabón: in there that I think that that is that's come key stuff. Julio A.: Three out of four. I mean, and I think the Rays are like, are they 30? Are they 29? They're like second to last. Like they're like bottom, bottom. The Rays don't spend. And every year they find themselves in this position, it feels like. I feel like every year they make the playoffs. Julio Pabón: That's right. Yep. Julio A.: so you know it. Julio Pabón: And they come up with superstars that just rise at the occasion. Okay, okay, we're not gonna talk about it, but it's just I just got I like the fact that when Caminero caught that ball yesterday, he went like this. He Julio A.: See, this is w I don't want to talk about this now, cause what's exact? What's the bottom line? Is the bottom line selling shohe jerseys? Julio Pabón: did, he said, he said, no, he snagged that boy, no, no, no. Julio A.: Ha Julio Pabón: I just thought that was Matumba, Bakumba, he looked like that guy, right? Matumba, he said, no. Julio A.: Yo, you matumbo, matumbo. He hit him with the listen. You don't see a lot of shit talking to the other team in the middle of the game. I am here for it. I love it. I love it. I love that he robbed that hit and then said, no. I love the I want to see more of that. I want to see more of that. Bring it out. Bring when Julio Pabón: no He said no that was so much fun. I said yeah Julio A.: Jose. When was that in the last game that he won where he hits that home run and he's pimping his shirt, looking at the picture? I was like, yo, bring it. Man, bring it. Bring all. I want all the drum. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta bring that drum, especially in baseball. Baseball's a long game. Those little things matter. You see the buildup. Julio Pabón: No. And you're gonna see a lot of that. You gotta you're gonna see a lot of that more. You also and check out, keep on checking at the Mesa, because Mesa told our guy, you know, our our one of our our reporters who was out there and spoke to Mesa, Mesa told him he said, you know, I don't know how I don't know why they don't they don't promote me. He says, I don't know why they don't talk more about me because you know I'm gonna make them talk more about me. Julio A.: Huh. Well Julio Pabón: esos son cubanos que Julio A.: yeah, yeah, yeah. You kidding me? He's he's got he's got swag for days. He's got swag for days. No, they listen between them and the Venezuelans on on the Brewers, because they got Lara, they got Contreras, and they Julio Pabón: Surio? Julio A.: got they got Churillo. And and Contreras and Churri. I don't know if Lara was on the team, but Contreras and Churrio just won with Venezuela. So they're about to they're they're trying to have the the Julio Pabón: Yeah. Julio A.: double dose of win, you know, trophies coming home this year. We're gonna get a World Series and a WBC in the same year. See, Julio Pabón: And a WPC? Yeah. Julio A.: which we know now. Matters. Julio Pabón: hell yeah. Julio A.: It's not like it's just a secondary award that you give because you can get more ba no no no no no no. You playing for your country matters in baseball. Julio Pabón: That has become the prime. This is something that Major League Baseball I don't think they even they imagined. I don't think they imagined. Julio A.: I think they're trying to find a way to get v as many viewers for the WBC for the World Series. Especially Especially if his Brewers raise. I mean Julio Pabón: That's a good angle, Julio. you should send that to MLB. That's a good angle. Yes. Yes. That's a good that's a that's a good way. Julio A.: I should. MLB, if you're listening, call your boy. I got ideas. All right. In the meantime, thank you so much. By the time you hear this, they will have played their games. But also, for our next recording, basketball will have started. And my Knicks will have officially begun their championship run. Their game one is against none other than. The Philadelphia 76ers Julio Pabón: Felize. Julio A.: with LeBron and Tyrese and Jalen and Joel Embiid. And you know, they've got a squad now. We got a squad now. We're going to get our rings that night. I'm very excited. I don't want early predictions, but let's say go Knicks and we will see you next week and we're gonna have a conversation about that. Julio Pabón: And maybe we'll have somebody to who follows the Knicks more also be as a guest and could talk to us more. Hector. Yeah. Yes, he he he he yeah. Julio A.: that's a great idea. Let's get our boy Hector on Hector can be is Hector our resident Nix like reporter? Should we just get Hector to be on the pod? Julio Pabón: Hector, Hector, we could talk. Well, Hector follows the Knicks, like forget it. I mean, he's always there. I mean, he's doing a lot more stuff with the with with with baseball now, but as soon as b basketball starts, that's a Knicks fan all the way. Julio A.: Great. Well we've got we've got Hector's gonna come on the c on the pod next week and we're gonna chat some Nick stuff with him. thank you very much for Julio and Julio. We will see you next week. Julio Pabón: God bless, have a good one, until the next one. A ta la proxima