Latest / The Magic Guys / Sean Taylor on Creativity, Consulting & Reinvention #275

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Sean Taylor on Creativity, Consulting & Reinvention #275 · The Magic Guys

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They're guys. They do magic. They are the Magic Guys.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode.
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I can't sing because I wasn't in a band, but welcome to episode 275 of the Magic
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Guys. Today, we're running with the duo for our guest.
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And to my left we got Nick K that's right the B team the bald team hi friends I'm Nick K I think,
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I think our podcast is always the bald team right even when Doug is here yeah
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but when he's here it's the A team,
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which is stands for better than a B but if B is the bald team and we're all
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bald anyway when Doug's here what does have you been to high school Josh have
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you been to high school now someone's flexing someone's been to school as a kid.
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What a show-off someone was educated and probably fed as a child all right good
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to see everyone in the chat no I'm just kidding I did eat a lot as a kid and
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clearly am quite caffeinated now.
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We have a guest that people have been waiting a long time to see.
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Created a lot of effects, and we're going to get to him in a second because,
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Nick, you have a show on tonight at the Melbourne Magic Festival.
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That's right, friend.
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Yes, the Melbourne Magic Festival is officially in full swing.
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We actually had two full houses for Theatre of Magic on Saturday as well.
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We had 48 in the first show totally sold out in the second it was a great great
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show so like everyone is in town they are keen to see magic we had the gala last night
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so and my show launches two nights at 6 30 p.m in the cardini theater at the
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arrow on swanson so you can still get your tickets
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at melbourne magic festival.com as well as a bunch of other amazing acts that
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are there we can speak to that in a little bit,
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but by all means do check out the lineup it's going to be amazing yeah and,
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i think with that being said we're about ready to launch into our interview
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what do you say josh absolutely i got my fingers at the ready take us away nick.
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Friends, today's guest is one of Australia's most respected professional entertainers.
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Originally from the UK, he's spent four decades performing magic in almost every
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environment imaginable.
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We're talking close-up shows, we're talking family shows, corporates,
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mind reading, you name it.
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He has a reputation as being one of Australia's most premier corporate entertainers.
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He's one of my personal favorite entertainers and also an amazing creator.
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He's lectured, he's resumes as long as my arm. his lecture has been done in
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12 different countries and these days he's helping magicians take their performances
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to the next level by consulting
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which is making me wonder if i should beg him to take me on as well and help
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me create some beautiful magic as well because when it comes to material and
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scripting and pacing and all of a theatrical experience this is the guy,
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we want to talk to so friends please join me in welcoming mr sean taylor.
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Hey, Sean Taylor, welcome to the Magic Guys podcast. Please tell everyone who
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are you and what do you do?
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Morning, afternoon, evening, wherever you are listening to this, watching this.
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I'm Sean Taylor and I'm a British magician, but I've lived in Australia for
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the last, well, almost 35 years in fact. And yeah, this is why I'm here.
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So this is the thing, you've been doing this for 40 years and what's clicked
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you performing, my guy? Like a lot of folks kind of ring out at some point.
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You obviously have a passion for it. For those watching live on YouTube,
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there is hundreds of magic books behind him, which I assume most of that knowledge
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is held within that beautiful cranium of yours.
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But how things are done is not as important as why things are being done.
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Like, what is it that keeps you going?
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Yeah, that's a great question. I've always loved magic right from the time I was a very small kid.
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But the thing that keeps me going is the excitement of trying to bring new things
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to my audience, new experiences to my audiences.
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And the world's changed a lot too. People's concentration spans are very different.
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The style of magic I've changed quite a bit over time.
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And I think as I've got older, different types of magic have found me.
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It's not so much that I've found them, but they probably suit my personality
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more than, you know, it's pretty hard to do mentalism when you're a 22-year-old
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kid, but once you start losing your hair, you guys will know about that,
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then it sort of gets easier, right?
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Hey, I just want to say this is my choice. Thanks for joining us, John.
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You know, it's really interesting, Sean. Can I share a question that was asked
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to me personally on my socials and on our Discord? If you guys have been scoped
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out, we're a good community and we do help each other. But I was asked this
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question that you just brought up a moment ago.
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Somebody asked me kind of blatantly, and it sounds almost weird when I reiterate
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what was said to me, but the question was quite blatantly, how do I develop personality?
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And I'll explain what I said to get the ball rolling.
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And what I said was, look at, and he was young. Okay. So we got to take that
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into consideration and you got to spend some time finding yourself,
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but because we typically start off as mimics. So when I was asked,
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how do I develop my personality?
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My advice was this, look at who you are now, look at who you want to be,
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and then see what you can do to bridge that gap and what needs to happen in order to get there.
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Because you might have a destination as to where you want to go,
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but in that journey, you will find yourself and you will find what feels right
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you will make mistakes along the way for sure but that was the advice i gave
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this person so i'm going to present the question to yourself and to you as well josh,
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what's your advice on finding that personality or stage persona even.
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You want me to go first i would love you to go first yeah yeah because i mean,
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we want to hear from you sean for sure i'm gonna cool so there's there's a great,
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there's a great quote by senator crandall and,
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the guys from the long beach mystics were went to the castle and uh they they,
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they saw senator crandall who was you know one of the the most famous magicians
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of his day they went backstage and they said you know what what's your advice for us starting out,
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and he said something like and this is this is the way i've read it he said
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something like get people to like you,
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tell them a story and then show them a trick,
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and if you get really good drop the trick which i think is brilliant.
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And to me it's you know magic is a conversation with your audience in some way
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or other the trick needs to be kind of incidental to that because it like when
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you're in sales people buy from people they don't buy from from a company and so,
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it's the same in magic they it's about,
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you and the best advice i've seen for the and you know as a close-up worker,
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when you when you start out you've got that awkward moment when you're going
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to walk up to a table and i know you guys have discussed that a little bit and there's a,
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there's a great piece of advice in the simon lovell book where he talks about you know try,
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walking up to tables and engaging the people at the table without doing a trick,
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So kind of test yourself to see if you can, you know, walk up to a table,
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introduce yourself, get the conversation going, but don't actually do magic.
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You know, don't start with, have you dropped this red pen knife or,
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you know, one of those kind of hack type things, you know, is this your sponge
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ball or whatever it happens to be.
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Just practice starting conversations with people. And I think that that's really good advice.
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And it's something that I've used with a lot of people that I've worked with
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over the years, you know, engaging.
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And that's going to build your personality. It's going to build your engagement.
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Yeah, I think that's a bloody perfect answer. I think a comedian,
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I've heard a few people say this, that in the comedy world, they say like.
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It'll take 10 years for you to figure out who you really are as a comic,
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and i feel like that's also similar with magic like now that i've i've passed
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the like doing magic for a living for more than 10 years now i feel like i'm
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only now really figuring out how to really,
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deliver an experience to like a gig like now i'm really more relaxed and will
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be more conversational because i'm not so worried that they're,
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not going to think I'm a good magician or whatever.
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Like I know the magic's going to be what it is.
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And like, how can I now, I can relax a bit and I can like be a bit more of a human around it.
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And, but it took me so long to realize that. Like I always used to be like,
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all right, have my flash paper ready. I've got the thing in my sleeve.
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Let's go up and let's quickly do some stuff.
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But now I don't have to like rush into it. Now they will sometimes get to the
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point of asking, like I've been talking to them for a little while now,
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where that now they say, oh, so what do you do here at the company?
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And I'm like, oh, wait, no, no, sorry.
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I'm hired to entertain you. Let me, let me show you. And then we get into it.
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But sometimes I think my answer to what I should have just said at the beginning
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is sometimes you just got to like do tons of gigs and get a stage time and you'll
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slowly like reveal who you are and be able to do that stuff.
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I agree with that as well. And I think that one of the things I see,
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especially, Joanne, I'm sure that you've seen this as well, where people who
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have been performing for a very long time will come to people like yourself
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and they will say things to the effect of, oh, I want to reinvent myself.
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I want to re-this myself.
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It's an interesting way to think about it because i i was trying to understand
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how they got stuck in that place to begin with and i feel that it's for a couple
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of reasons i think one might be that they don't perform frequently enough that
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the evolution happens naturally.
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And that they they just when you perform so often you change every show like
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without realizing it it might be point zero zero zero two percent but when you
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do like 20 tables in an hour or whatever it might be you You know what I mean?
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Like that increment is quite good.
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And then I also think it's for people who refuse to change.
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So there's like, it's like two paths, like you grow a little bit or you just
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refuse to change what you do and you get left behind. And then you get to a
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point where you have to actively say, Oh, I need to reinvent myself.
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I'm sure you've seen this a lot in, with the amount of people you've helped over the years. Yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the challenges with it is that people get bored.
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You know, they're doing the same material all the time. And if you're doing
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close-up and you're doing, you know, 20 tables every night and you're doing
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the same five tricks, whatever it might be, three tricks, you get bored.
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And you want new challenges and you want to sort of freshen things up because
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you find yourself going, you're just repeating the same stuff.
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And I think there are some good strategies to avoid getting bored.
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And again, to me, it's about the conversation. It's, it's about just having
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a conversation with people and then the magic becomes part of that conversation
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rather than, you know, sort of standing there and delivering the same script every time. Yeah.
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You know if i could speak to something what i'm currently going through is this
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notion of having to be very vulnerable and what i mean by that is that there
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is so much comfort in performing the things that i've done for the past decade or so,
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i know they slay and i know them like i don't even have to think about them but then,
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when you push yourself to create and and give birth to things,
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like you're at this point now where it's like okay i've got this routine it's got so much potential,
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and it's gonna be great someday and every time you refuse to perform it or you're
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too afraid to perform it you are delaying it getting better and better and so
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i've come to this point in my career where,
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there's a lot of things that i want to perform for stage and the stage time
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here in melbourne is not as great as like your close-up time for example but
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i've just gone you know what i'm going to be vulnerable and sometimes this effect
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which is never the same every time it's like a q a style effect,
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i'm just gonna have to like suck it up and let it breathe and it's one of the
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most difficult things because i could just stay in my comfort zone and feel
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great about myself giving them something that i know is tried and tested,
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but that vulnerability is something that i really had to convince myself to
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do that and i guess the question to put in like to yourself is do you think
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that people should be doing that more and how should they be,
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doing it so that they can actually have beautiful new ideas evolve to the point
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where they are like their tenure.
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Install it next so i i think one of the problems with magic is and i'm first
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to say this but magicians are a large number of magicians are effectively tribute acts,
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so they've they've gone and grabbed a bunch of other people's material and they're
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delivering it you know with the same words and the same performance as as the
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people they bought it from,
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and it might be from you know they might have gone and bought it from a magic
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dealer or they may have seen it in a lecture or on a download or something and
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they've just they're just reproducing what they've seen,
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and those people i'm encouraging all of the time to put more of themselves into
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the effects and so that we we find out i think authenticity is a really good
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word if you come out and say you know when i was strolling down the street in
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india and it's very obvious that
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that's a story and that you've never strolled down the street in india
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then you know that sort of stuff it's very hard,
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to be authentic when you're using made-up stories and you're.
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Dishing the patter out that came with the effect.
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So I think authenticity is a really important thing.
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I can say that the day that I was packing for a show and,
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looked at all of the material and realized that everything I was going to be
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doing that night in that show was entirely my own,
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there was a sort of, it was an enormous feeling of pride and a sort of a joy
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in the fact that I've got stuff that I can go out and charge people serious
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money to see, and it's entirely my own.
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And and i think that's something to really strive for,
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there's nothing wrong with buying effects and going out and doing them nothing
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at all but the more you put of yourself into those effects and the more you put,
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yourself into the show the more you're going to lift yourself into the top 10
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you know there's a thing called sturgeon's law where you know apparently 90 of everything is crap,
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and you know i'd suggest if you go out and see a really good magic show you
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are seeing one of the top 10 you're seeing a 10 of people that have lifted themselves
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above the pack and that's where we need to get to.
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If we could circle back to something you sort of touched upon there is when
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we like my advice was people who are finding their personalities and they're
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where they are and where they want to be sometimes i meet performers who say
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things to the effect of like i want to be that,
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really debonair type magician and blah blah blah and you know have this type
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of thing it's like yeah i know you want to but like you you're not that person
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like you are so far from that person and so,
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it's interesting how you can go one of two ways i suppose you can be like that,
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lucy darling type character where you just go i disconnect and you're a guy
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who lives in a trailer but you're going to put yourself out there as a guy who
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owns a mansion and you're very affluent.
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Like that's the only way you're going to be able to get there.
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I assume is the advice on that one. Right.
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Yeah, and I think you need to find people that you trust to be honest with you.
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If you just surround yourselves with people who say you're great and,
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you know, they love everything you do and, you know, they're effectively friends
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of yours and they're just validating everything you do.
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And let's face it, that's what social media is, right? We're all looking for
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validation. Look at me, look at me.
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If you surround yourself with people that that are honest with you and they're
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prepared to tell you when you suck,
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then that that's going to help you to improve that's what you want you want
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people to say that sorry make that look shit that's what you want you want and
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you want the truth rather than you know this,
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constant praise and and i think that that's a way to improve,
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and find people that will help you describe what your character is what's my
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character you're a guy that looks like you should be doing x and and that will
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help you to to shape who you are and what you are,
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i think that's great advice that jeff hobson said that same thing and we don't
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do it enough do we like we don't just be vulnerable and say to people in real life,
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that we trust what do you think i I am as a magician, what do you think of me before knowing who I am?
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Like when i look at sean i'm like yeah he's the most knowledgeable guy in the
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world with his background of books behind him and i imagine that he you know,
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like doug could recite exactly where every effect is originated yeah,
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there is something about when you get any praise from sean taylor that it hits
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you hard and it tattoos your heart like in the biggest way i can't wait to experience
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that one day thanks thanks yeah,
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it's really great it's really great being me.
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Now because well for because the first time i ever lectured and we should talk
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about your lectures if we can just to segue into it well yeah you you met me,
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at the magic festival and,
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long story short somebody didn't come to like a gala it was the best of the
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fest like three acts and i was sitting
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in the audience and it was being hosted by nicholas j johnson friend of the
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pod and said nick can you get up and do some stuff because they're not here
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and i went sure and i literally
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grabbed a deck of cards i got the video footage of it actually i remember like
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i was just in a t-shirt i wasn't and i did some stuff and sean saw my performance and when that,
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that was like this is what aussie close-up is supposed to be,
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and i've asked if i would lecture at the the genie con which to this day is
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still the best convention we've we've ever done all of our all of our friends
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all of it we've done magic live under half a dozen times,
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that was the best like convention we've ever had it was the greatest so,
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yeah but that was the type of thing when you saw me do my thing and you know
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you told me like this is something that people need to see and understand and so,
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it was add high praise but we're talking lectures now you have so many and you
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speak upon so many things you speak upon children's shows corporate shows nlp even you know so.
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What what motivates you okay so let's i mean like you touch upon so many things
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do you just have that much knowledge in your head are you serious,
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are you literally a walking tarbell well i've been doing this for a long time
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right so i've published well over 200 tricks in in various forms over time and so,
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you know i i've got a range of stuff and and because i like to change up what I do.
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Most of the stuff that I publish, I've actually done. And I'm not just writing,
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tricks that I think people will like.
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I publish the stuff that I've actually done. So I've been out there and worked
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it to death and found out what the problems are and hopefully solved them.
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And so, yeah, that's the stuff I enjoy.
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I'd love to talk about theory in a lecture situation all the time,
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but people don't want that. They want tricks.
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And so when you go out with a lecture, You need probably eight or ten really good tricks.
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And I like to pepper them with the theory stuff because I think that's what
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makes it more interesting.
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Well, that actually leads into my next question. What sort of theories do you
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think are actually lacking from the knowledge of most bass magicians now?
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So when I started to do this, the last sort of seven or eight years,
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what I've been doing is working with other magicians.
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Generally either people who are doing close up now and want to do stage or they're
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doing stand-up stuff and they want to get better at it,
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and you can go on any facebook group or forum any day of the week and see somebody
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who's asking a question like what's the best book test or what's a really good
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comedy opener or you know how many tricks do i need for a 45 minute show
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all of those kind of questions, which to me are completely the wrong questions.
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They're starting at the wrong end. They're starting with the tricks.
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And you don't go out and buy 10 tricks and then try and make them into a show.
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You start at the other end.
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You say, what's my character? Who's my audience going to be?
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What kind of venues do I want to play?
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How do I speak? How do I dress? Am I going to work on a table or out of a box?
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Or how's that going to happen?
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Am I going to speak? And if I am going to speak, am I going to be funny?
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Am I going to be serious? Am I going to tell jokes? Or am I going to tell stories?
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What is the style of performance that I want to put together?
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Am I going to play for, and you guys have got these great theater of magic shows
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going on where you're playing to a certain size of a room. So you're going to
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look for material that's going to work in that size of a room.
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You're not going to wheel out an illusion or you're not going to do something
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that's super teeny tiny because people aren't going to be able to see it.
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You need stuff that's going to play in that, you know, what we like to call parlor type situation.
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So the questions that people ask themselves are the wrong questions in my view.
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And so that's why I started to offer my services to people and say,
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you know, if this is a thing that you want to do better, and let's face it,
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who doesn't, right? Who doesn't want to improve?
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If you don't want to get better, what you're saying is, I'm happy being in that
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90% of crap magicians. I don't, you know, I'm not caring about being in the
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10%. If you want to lift yourself into that 10%, then you need help.
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And whether you get it from me or whether you get it from somebody else, you need help.
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You need, you need people to contribute to what you're doing and whether that's
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a producer or a director, choreographer, for goodness sake, I don't know anything
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about choreography or lighting or, or, or tech or any of that stuff. That's not my thing.
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But you know, there's a skill set
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that I have that, that I, that I've been sharing and that's what I enjoy.
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Thinking about it from the other angle. Yeah. It's fine because we've done dedicated
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episodes on like where we hyper-focus on things like how to approach groups,
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how to, how to do this and that, how to like write a show.
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I actually got a message from another podcast just recently saying like,
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Hey, I have your lecture notes.
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Can I teach what you taught on your podcast to our Spanish podcast?
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And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Like this is what community should be about.
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You know, it's like, it was just really helpful to me and I want to share with the Spanish.
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And I'm like, absolutely let's do that you know so it's it's an interesting
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way to approach that because,
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you've worked with quite a few performers over time most recently would be,
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our friend Cameron Leo prior to that you worked with Harry Millis he and I've
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shared a stage together many a times and it's I'm just curious when people like
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do you choose them or do they come to you.
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It's happened both ways.
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Yeah. So I've offered my help out to people over time, but then sometimes they
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come to me. And then Cameron came to me with a really great idea for a stage show.
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He used to be in the police force. He worked undercover as a detective in the New South Wales police.
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And he wanted to build a show around that as a hook.
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I mean, it's a gift, right? Because it's such an interesting thing that,
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you know, we sort of know a bit about from watching TV detective shows,
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but we really don't know what they do and what goes on in there.
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And so if we can take elements of that and, you know, add some magic and mentalism
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to them, then suddenly we've got something that's really interesting. It's a great book.
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And that's why I was keen to get involved. I mean, you know,
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it just, it's a gift, something like that.
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And then folks like Harry, like what was the draw to him? I mean,
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like he's, I mean, I've seen him and I could probably see the,
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the shot, like the, the appeal, but I know that you were drawn to him.
25:09
You, you put him on the radar a lot before I had an opportunity to meet him.
25:12
So like, what are those things that you started?
25:15
Well, look, the backstory with Harry is that he first came to the magic shop
25:20
when he's with his mom, when he was about eight.
25:22
And so I've known him since he was a kid and, and Cam, in fact,
25:27
um, I've known since he was a kid.
25:28
A kid as well he also used to come to the magic shop when he was a kid and so
25:33
i've known these guys for a long time and harry would come to the magic shop
25:37
every week with his mom and spend his pocket money and then over time we gave
25:41
him a bit of work and then he,
25:44
started to work more and more in the shop and and we we struck up a friendship
25:48
and we've been mates have since and yeah we've spend a lot of time together and and harry has.
25:56
Had an extraordinary success overseas in the united states with a with a touring
26:00
close-up show that's been likened to the work of ricky jay,
26:04
which i think this is fantastic i mean to be you know in the same sentence as
26:08
ricky jay from people you respect is you know and there were people that were
26:12
literally flying across the country to see his show which is extraordinary,
26:17
he's done a couple of festivals,
26:19
yes yeah and he's He's done stuff in Chicago, Magic Lounge, I think, as well.
26:23
And not to seek praise, but just so that there's a magician that the audience
26:27
would know, myself. You...
26:30
I have to just say this out of thanks and I was going to do this off air,
26:33
but I may as well do it here. And I just wanted to say like,
26:35
I kind of, I really appreciate you like for believing in me long before I believed in myself.
26:41
And so that's a big personal thank you that I wanted to share with our audience
26:44
today before we go on to some of the audience questions.
26:47
But I was, I never asked the question to you, like, what is it that you saw
26:50
in me that, that like made you believe me before i believed in myself,
26:56
wow that's a great question and i think that the key for me that on that night where i first saw you,
27:03
the timing of the work that you were doing and the pacing of the work that you
27:09
were doing that night and the way that you played with the audience and the
27:13
the fact that you'd obviously done that stuff,
27:17
so many times you know the the,
27:21
the things that you do around,
27:24
misdirection, the loading the card under the box,
27:27
you know, that, that it was obvious to me watching you do it that night.
27:30
And the fact that you had no prep time whatsoever, they literally wheeled you
27:34
out, as you say, in a t-shirt and a cap. I think you were channeling Josh on
27:38
that night. You had a baseball cap on from memory.
27:43
But yeah, just, just to see the way that you were handling the timing and the
27:48
misdirection and, and the fact that you were jazzing and playing with it and
27:52
taking the opportunities as they were presented to you i thought
27:55
this guy's flipping nailing this and that that was that was what attracted me in the,
27:59
in the first place and and every time i've seen you it's been that more more and more of that,
28:06
i was there was a particular story we've shared on the pod about when we did
28:10
the theater of magic and we had that particular nightmare audience uh you were yeah,
28:15
You were there in the audience. And yeah, it was, we had an entire row of just,
28:22
nightmare people for all myriad of reasons.
28:25
And yeah, I was sharing the stage up as a world champions of magic,
28:29
you know, Martin and Christian Grace.
28:32
And then I had to follow their acts and deal with these, these messy, messy people.
28:38
And like, yeah, it was that type of thing that, yeah, like it was great.
28:42
I was really glad that you got to see that, you know, and see how it works.
28:45
But let's circle into some comments because we have questions.
28:49
The first one from Matty Matt Magic. What does it say, Josh?
28:54
All right. So we got, do you have any direct advice for transitioning from a
28:59
magician who's doing gigs in close-up or stand-up to switching to stage magic?
29:05
Yeah, and that's a great question. so the the first thing i think you should
29:10
be doing is getting yourself to a point where you can do some stand-up tricks
29:16
at your close-up gigs so have,
29:20
have some stuff that you can scale up be prepared i've always taken stand-up
29:25
stuff to a close-up gig close-up stuff to a stand-up gig so that you're ready
29:29
to do that if someone says can you just do something for everyone and
29:33
you've got that stuff that you can switch into.
29:35
So get yourself 10 minutes of stuff that you can do anywhere for anybody and start doing that.
29:41
Don't try and write a 45-minute show and start doing it for money straight away. It's going to kill you.
29:47
It's not going to work. So yeah, start small, build from there.
29:51
Start small, build from there. Perfect. Our next question comes from Southpawmagic.one.
29:58
What is your approach to developing your routines?
30:02
So I think the first thing that you need for any routine is a premise, a premise of an effect.
30:08
I think you should generally start with the effect first.
30:12
That doesn't always happen. Sometimes I see an idea or a method or something
30:19
where I say, what can I do with that? Where can I take that?
30:23
It's the basis of a good idea.
30:26
It's a move or it's a concept or it's a method.
30:29
And I say, What could I do with that that's better than what people are doing with it now?
30:34
And so many things end up being a card trick, right? You know,
30:39
you see something in an office store or Ikea or, you know, something you say,
30:44
I could make a card trick out of that and everything ends up being a card trick.
30:47
Whereas I'm looking at card tricks and saying, how can I make this not a card
30:51
trick? How can I make that into something more interesting?
30:57
I think you told us a story. You were on an airplane and you were tearing up
31:00
two napkins. Yes. Yeah. And that was an epiphany. Yeah.
31:07
That's right. What's that about? I'm unaware of this. It's my magazine test. Yeah.
31:15
I was on a Qantas flight and I had a napkin and I was making notes on the napkin.
31:22
And i decided to tear the napkin up into smaller pieces and what i realized was that,
31:28
when you do that if you have the same information on both sheets and because
31:33
it was a napkin that ink was bleeding through when you tear it up you're effectively
31:39
making a mini tackle deck
31:41
so those pieces of paper become pairs,
31:46
so you have the same stuff twice and that was the idea that i started with which
31:51
eventually ended up becoming my magazine test,
31:55
wow crazy so it didn't become a country no it didn't become a country.
32:02
Yeah, but generally for our question for Southpaw, it's, yeah,
32:07
think of the effect first when you're developing your routines.
32:12
Yeah, and I've done this with Cameron and the detective, the undercover magic show.
32:17
We started to think about, you know, what the police do. They have police lineups.
32:22
They have a sketch artist in the court that's drawing something.
32:26
They have people who are learning how to tell whether someone's lying or telling the truth.
32:31
You know, all of those kind of witnesses to crimes, you know,
32:35
remembering things in a different way. So we had concepts that you might have,
32:41
as a police officer, and we turned those into effects.
32:45
And that's, you know, that's how we started with all the premise stuff in the
32:49
world to then say, how can we make these into magic tricks?
32:53
Wow. And then the last question, also from Southpaw, is people are very curious
32:59
about your background, your physical background right now behind you.
33:02
So for anyone who's just listening to this, he has, he told us there's about 800 books behind him.
33:08
And Southpaw is asking, out of all those books, is there any one in particular
33:14
that you find yourself coming back to a lot? Wow.
33:21
My favorite book in Magic is Professional Secrets by Geoffrey Durham.
33:24
It's not a book that you hear about a lot, but it's a guy who was absolutely
33:30
at the top of his game touring the UK with a theater show, essentially telling
33:36
you everything you need to know about that process.
33:40
And I think it's an utterly brilliant book that you don't hear about often.
33:44
But the in general the books that are written by people who are workers and
33:51
have gone out and done the stuff i'd include my own books in that by the way
33:56
because it's my it's my working material that i've published i think that is
34:01
the stuff that you're looking for i recently bought the con over books i'm sure
34:04
a lot of your listeners and watchers would have done the same,
34:08
that was the stuff that conover was actually doing for real people and that's
34:11
why i was you know very early on the list to put my name down to get those books,
34:16
because that's the stuff that i like generally,
34:18
you know it's it's fun to read books full of card tricks and there's plenty
34:22
of them on those shelves over there but a lot of those are things that people
34:25
have haven't done and and you know they're,
34:28
they're there just because you can not because you should.
34:34
It's funny because like yeah we've had book clubs and stuff and there's folks
34:37
that just they froth for card tricks one after another and it's like it's fine
34:42
but again i i look for inspiration from that and then try to find a way that's
34:46
makes it tasty for myself you know,
34:49
yeah it's and there's it's interesting because there's no real advice you can
34:53
give on it where you hear something see something and go how do i make this
34:57
my own or how do i give it my flavor it's like it's like cooking you know,
35:02
I was talking to somebody the other night, and there's a great magician in the
35:05
UK you may know called Ben Hart. Absolutely.
35:10
Ben Hart took the egg on fan and made it into a mentalism prick.
35:16
How does that even happen? Just saying that one sentence, you think to yourself, that's just insane.
35:22
But he's he's done the you know the ultimate there in taking something that
35:27
that is a really tried and tested,
35:31
effect and turned it into something completely new brilliant,
35:35
i love whenever you're creating and i've come across this personally a whole
35:38
bunch of times where you start off with something and then where it ends is
35:41
just worlds apart how often does that What happened for you with your creativity?
35:47
A lot. One tip I would give people is to have a notebook.
35:52
I know you can put stuff in your phone, I get that, but I carry a notebook with
35:56
me everywhere because you want to, and I've got a small one that I can just
36:01
put in a pocket and a bigger one that goes in my various briefcases. You need a notebook.
36:07
Important that you you see ideas you see objects you see items you hear a funny
36:14
story or a funny line something that potentially could be a premise for a trick
36:18
and you write it down really important,
36:21
i kind of want to ask is there anything that is currently in the cauldron brewing that you're willing.
36:30
Exclusively with the magic guys podcast without giving too much things what's the thing,
36:38
yeah let me let me introduce this by saying something that and this is a phrase
36:43
that i use quite a lot when i'm talking to groups of magicians about stage magic magic's not a buffet,
36:51
you don't go along to magic shows and help yourself to presentations or ideas
36:56
or tricks from other people's acts that's not what you should be doing,
37:01
and so it's it's a good idea to see magic and to see lots of magic but you need
37:07
to see more than the tricks you need to see the pacing you need to see the rhythm you need to see,
37:15
where people are going with ideas and how they're getting there what the journey looks like,
37:21
and and i'll come back to that in a second because i've got a theory about watching
37:24
magic shows and how you should do that and how it will help you,
37:28
but in answer to your question what's brewing at the moment i'm working on the
37:32
third volume of my mentalism books, Mindstorms and Mindcoaster were the first
37:37
two. I got them right here.
37:39
So these are the first two volumes. There's about 20 effects in each of these.
37:44
So I'm working on volume three.
37:46
I'm probably at about 16 effects at the moment. And so that will,
37:50
in the next year or so, that will turn into volume three.
37:54
And there's some really, really fun stuff in there. And so, yeah, I'm working on that.
38:00
Going back to my buffet comment, recently there was a comedy magic special that
38:05
was doing the rounds and the guy had a routine with the old bending glass or
38:10
bending mirror effect, which I'm sure you're familiar with.
38:14
It's take a piece of glass or a mirror, you put it into a wooden frame,
38:17
you fold it in half. It's a really great trick that you almost never see now.
38:22
This guy had a super fun presentation for that effect.
38:26
And i saw within the next few weeks after that i saw people online saying has
38:33
anyone got a bending glass.
38:36
Is anyone selling so suddenly you know magicians are saying,
38:41
oh i'm going to treat that as a buffet i'm just going to help myself to that
38:45
presentation because that will go right in my show and that and that's really
38:48
sad because that that's not really the way to approach it at all now having said that i do,
38:55
have a version of the bending glass bending mirror effect it's a close-up version,
39:03
and i think you'll love it when you see it it's a really really neat idea and
39:09
i've only shared it with a couple of people and i think that will at some point
39:13
come to fruition but it's it's going to be fun.
39:18
Amazing. Here we are. Peek behind the curtain. Well, I appreciate that.
39:23
It's indeed looking forward to that. When the book does come out,
39:26
promise you we'll come back and have a chat with us so we can hear all about
39:29
it. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
39:31
Now, the advice you said on watching shows. We watched the show not long ago.
39:36
It was a Penn and Teller show.
39:38
I saw it in Vegas. I saw it here.
39:41
In their show, they did this routine.
39:43
It was killer. It was a whole bunch of things with like 52 balloons and all these choices.
39:48
Absolutely fooling. I had no idea how it was done.
39:52
And then come to find out, someone goes, what'd you think? Well,
39:56
tell her himself, what did you think of the balloon act? I'm like,
39:59
fooled the crap out of me. He goes, that's Sean Taylor's. And I just went,
40:02
of course it freaking is. Of course it is.
40:07
That in itself is so cool. I have no idea how a routine you create ends up in
40:14
the hands of world-famous Penn & Teller act.
40:19
Would you mind sharing that story with our audience and how that all happened?
40:22
Sure. Yeah. So first off, I'll say it's not really mine.
40:26
The derivation of it is a David Burglass effect from back in the 1960s.
40:32
He did it remarkably on live TV as a one-man thing when you read the,
40:38
the entry in the birdglass book and and also in the little there's there was
40:43
a little sort of manuscript that he put together
40:46
that had it in and when you read it it's just completely impossible you would
40:49
never risk doing it the chances of you of you getting it,
40:54
to work will be so slim what what what happens is he has a system for knowing
41:00
which cards the spectators need to choose and he was literally culling and classic
41:06
forcing three cards on live tv it's completely nuts doesn't make sense at all so,
41:13
my friend richard pinner who's a really amazing corporate magician that lives
41:18
in the uk and we have shared ideas for many years i do stuff of his he does
41:23
stuff of mine we're great mates and we have been for a long time,
41:26
he had some input on that effect, and I saw him do a version of it many years ago.
41:33
I took some of his ideas, added some of my own, turned it into a two-person
41:37
effect, which I did in a show called Out of Your Mind about 20 years ago.
41:42
Fast forward, Penn and Teller were in Australia. They spoke to a couple of guys
41:45
and said, there must be someone in Australia that invents tricks.
41:48
And a couple of people said, yeah, you need to talk to this guy.
41:51
And so I had a call from Teller.
41:53
And I had two or three things that I wanted to share with him.
41:57
But my strongest suggestion was that they took a look at the balloon effect.
42:02
And so that's how it came about.
42:04
I did some sessions with them over Zoom, gave them my ideas and methodology and recommendations.
42:12
They did speak to Berglas, who was still around at that time,
42:15
and he gave them some suggestions, but eventually they came back to use the
42:18
method that I'd suggested.
42:20
And then, yeah, great pleasure for me. I got to sit in the opera house and watch
42:24
them do it live, which was amazing.
42:27
Cool. And did it pay for the extension on your house?
42:33
I got some money for the work that I did, let's just say.
42:38
Yeah, yeah. I paid for some of the books. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
42:47
Was there any part of you that was like, oh, maybe I should take this to their
42:51
show and fool them on Fool Us or anything like that?
42:55
I had thought about that, yes. Because I'd been asked a couple of times if I'd
43:00
got stuff that I would do on Fool Us if I had the chance.
43:04
And I did think about it, but I liked the fact that it went straight into the show.
43:09
It actually was supposed to be just a segment on Fool Us, but they ended up
43:13
liking it so much because it packs so small and plays so big that it's gone
43:18
into the 50th anniversary touring show, which is amazing. Wow.
43:23
Yeah, I've had the pleasure of seeing it twice now, once in Vegas and once here
43:27
in Melbourne at the Hamer Hall. So, yeah.
43:32
So, obviously, this is the example of you in your consulting slash show development abilities.
43:38
I'm just curious if there's any sort of small change that folks can make that
43:42
would have a big improvement for their shows.
43:46
That's a great question. Maybe a common issue that requires some fixing.
43:53
I think the transitions between effects and the rhythm of the effects is really important.
44:00
And sometimes to take a step back and have a look at how you get from one effect
44:06
to the next and the journey of the props, I think is really important.
44:10
Alan Shaxton was a favorite magician of mine and Alan always looked so immaculate
44:15
and everything he did looked very smooth and so
44:19
he would go into his pocket and bring something out he would reach into the
44:22
case and take something straight out it would go straight back in it all,
44:26
it all looked super super smooth so often I see magicians they'll they'll end
44:31
up with a table full of clutter and they're in their bag sort of rummaging around
44:36
trying to find things to me that that that's,
44:39
that whole setting,
44:42
is a mess you need to be really neat and organized so that that stuff doesn't
44:47
get noticed so i think the journey of the props and the rhythm the the interchanges
44:52
between the effects are probably the thing to focus on.
44:57
That's great advice and what about scripting do you find i personally find that
45:01
so many magicians avoid scripting and then when they do script it's very mechanical
45:06
i was performing recently with a great magician who is a very very busy guy
45:10
but just like you said at the start of the show he's,
45:12
just reiterating the purchased product that script and,
45:18
he's delivering it great like what he's saying is perfectly delivered like that
45:22
like that boy is rehearsed but what he's,
45:25
spousing is not anything that's genuine or his own and he's he's reacting to
45:32
jokes that didn't land and there's things of that nature and i'm just,
45:36
do you do you have a theory as to like why magicians are so avoidant in scripting.
45:41
So I do think there's a fine line, by the way, and if you brought up a really
45:44
good point, that scripting is absolutely critical, particularly at the beginning
45:49
of an effect. You need to establish the premise of the effect and hook the audience in.
45:55
And nowadays, because people's concentration span is so different these days
45:59
to what it would have been years ago, you have to keep doing that during the
46:03
show. So as you move to each new effect, you have to set the premise.
46:07
And the best way to do that is have a couple of sentences is a script but once
46:12
you've learned that you need to say in a really nice natural and fluid way so
46:18
it doesn't sound like you're just reciting it.
46:21
The the the extreme is to get to the point where you're you're literally just
46:26
delivering the lines and unfortunately
46:28
at that stage you're doing magic at people rather than to them,
46:33
And yeah, if you take, here's a really good example, Matt King.
46:37
Matt King has essentially done, the core of Matt King's show has essentially
46:41
been the same for years and years and years, but it feels fresh every night.
46:48
It feels fresh. It doesn't sound like he's just saying the lines.
46:52
It feels like you might be seeing things for the first time.
46:56
It doesn't feel scripted at all, even though he's done it tens of thousands of times.
47:03
And that's ultimately where you need to get to. And so I think you also need
47:07
to be able to react to what happens with the audience. And Nick,
47:12
I've already said it, you're very good at this.
47:16
So if somebody does say something daft, you're able to jump on that and use
47:21
it and work with it and jazz with it.
47:23
And that's such a critical thing.
47:26
I'm coming back to you and josh i i apologize i haven't had the pleasure of seeing
47:30
your show as much as i have with nick i'm absolutely certain the fact that you're
47:35
completely smashing it night after night the bits i've seen that you do are
47:39
fantastic and your work with the with the cubes and um you know some of that
47:43
uh some of that other stuff you're doing it just
47:46
it's breathtaking and so yeah you guys are.
47:48
You guys are definitely top 10 for me and this is great that we can celebrate
47:53
the talent that exists in this country because we do have some exceptional magicians
47:57
and you know it's we're very lucky,
48:00
very i'm i'm just i'm just so glad that i get to like yes it's great i get to
48:05
work my routines and perform every week but i get to watch the amazing nigel,
48:09
who we know as kerry perform,
48:11
and that is like something special and what has helped like change how i perform so much.
48:19
Yeah, and Kerry is another great example of a guy that knows his character and
48:25
knows the boundaries that he has and knows where he can go with the audience and how he can push it,
48:31
to, you know, absolutely to the limit with the audience.
48:34
And yeah, brilliant, brilliant example, again, of a guy who's done his stuff
48:38
a thousand times and, and, and really has it to the point where he can then
48:43
go off script and, and, and do things that are, you know, a little,
48:47
a little quirky and a little unusual.
48:49
A little? Yeah. Brilliant. Okay. Very quirky and very unusual.
48:54
Yeah. Kind of crazy as he, as he would word it.
48:58
There's always a sense of danger right with with his you know.
49:03
You're always kind of wondering how far you'll go and that's that's brilliant
49:07
that's a great place to be but again not something that would suit me or or
49:12
potentially most of us it's you know it's unique unique to his character,
49:18
that's true and talking about doing shows and and events and things like that
49:22
when someone is as seasoned as you,
49:24
you have to collect some stories from gigs.
49:28
And there is a little segment we like to do called Gig Stories.
49:31
And I think this is a great time to roll into that.
49:35
So Gig Stories is a section of the show where we talk about little moments of
49:38
magic either while performing or our day-to-day lives. And I'm sure that there
49:41
is more stories than we can count.
49:43
Like the very fact you've published 200 tricks. I don't think I've seen 200 tricks, dude.
49:48
So I'm sure you've got just as many stories. Is there a particular story that
49:54
comes to mind about a gig?
49:59
There are probably two that I jump to straight away. One that I often tell in
50:03
my lecture, my pineapple trick is something that people would know a lot about.
50:06
It's called Pineapple Surprise. It's a trick with a can of pineapple.
50:10
I was working at a wedding, and I was looking for a volunteer to help with that.
50:15
And this very nice lady was sitting very close to the side of the stage,
50:20
put up her hand and came to help. And it was obvious to me once she stood up
50:26
and started walking that she'd obviously had too much to drink.
50:31
By the time she got to the stage, she was kind of leaning on me and she was
50:36
giggling and it was very clear that she was three sheets to the wind, as they say.
50:43
And so we got to the point where I had to open the can at the end of the effect
50:47
and the can opener I use holds still and the can turns.
50:53
So the spectator just needs to hold their hand flat and the can sits on it.
50:57
But she gripped the can she had a sort of vice like grip on the can and i said
51:02
no just put it flat on your hand she couldn't let go of it she just she was
51:05
just holding it so eventually i had to sort of walk around the can opening the thing,
51:10
while she was holding it then i flipped the lid up on the can,
51:15
and i was explaining the the end of the effect and and what happens is i put
51:20
my finger into the can and I take the piece of pineapple out and that's the
51:25
finale to the effect, the ring of pineapple.
51:28
Just as I went to put my finger into the can, she snatched the can away and
51:33
it cut my finger right to the bone.
51:36
The way across the back just literally right and the scar is still very very
51:42
obvious it cut right to the bone and of course because it was my finger it started to bleed like mad,
51:48
and also because it was pineapple juice it stung like hell.
51:55
So i'm standing there in screaming agony with this with this big cut and i,
52:02
i i'm a bit old-fashioned i always have a handkerchief in my pocket so i took
52:05
out cotton handkerchief wrapped it around my finger to get to the end
52:10
but despite that I still had about 15 minutes of the show to do so I got right
52:15
through to the end and by the time I'd finished I was literally covered in blood
52:20
it was on my suit it was on my shoes it was on the floor it was everywhere,
52:25
so I hastily packed up went to the hospital got it stitched up and when I got
52:31
home my wife just had a huge shock as the door opened because she uh she thought i'd been shot.
52:39
So so covered in blood anyway here we are one quick one as well i was i was
52:44
doing a gig one night in uh in a pub in north sydney i was i only remember remembered
52:49
this last week because i was in the same pub,
52:51
and i was in a room on the top floor performing for this corporate event and
52:57
i I took a bit of a break, came out,
52:59
having a drink at the bar that was between the two rooms, and there was a guy
53:03
standing next to me, and he said...
53:05
Sounds like they're having a lot of fun in that, in that party.
53:08
Uh, it's a bit better than ours.
53:10
And I said, well, what do you mean? He said, oh, this, this party is so dull.
53:14
It's dreadful. And I said, well, this one's brilliant. They've got a magician.
53:18
And he said, really? Is he any good? I said, fantastic. It's absolutely smashing.
53:24
And he said, really, we should have done something like that.
53:28
And we talked for a couple of minutes and I said, actually, I should tell you it's me.
53:31
And he's like what yeah it's me it's me and he said you're the magician i said
53:36
yeah he said what does it cost to get a guy and i think i was charging about
53:39
grand at the time and i said yeah thousand dollars and he went thousand dollars,
53:44
just wait here he went in came out and said can you do ours as well.
53:52
So i finished up doing the gig that i was doing and then went straight next
53:55
door and did the same thing again oh that's hilarious that's the fastest repeat gig i've ever had,
54:03
wow i've never heard of like you know scouting the venue you're in to see there's
54:08
other parties to get work from essentially what a win,
54:13
that's awesome i've i've been booked in in like for two gigs right next to each
54:19
other at crown casino so i was doing show for,
54:22
snooze like the the bedding company yeah then the moment i finished that i just
54:26
went next door and i did a row for like some wedding,
54:30
convention something or other like some big dollar thing that we're doing there
54:33
but yeah but i've never like walked out and got booked for another one that's insane,
54:39
and paid immediately as well yeah.
54:43
What joy yeah josh gig story,
54:48
Let me think. I've been really enjoying doing some casino gigs lately.
54:52
My buddy Chris, shout out to Chris Stay, runs Stay Entertained,
54:56
and he does these party casino nights.
54:59
And recently, we've been doing a few where I'm sort of like a James Bond sleight
55:03
of hand guy that moves in. And as someone in my YouTube comments wrote,
55:07
I should be James Bald, which is very funny.
55:10
And so it's been really fun doing gambling magic that makes sense because you're
55:15
in a gambling situation.
55:17
And then My gig story is that I was doing that event last week, and as I sat down to
55:24
give the dealer a break, and I used the table that everyone's standing around
55:28
to do sort of some table card work, I had my cards on me, but the dealer was
55:33
like, oh, can you do something with these cards?
55:34
And gave me like the cards they'd just been playing with and left me and I was like oh,
55:41
I can and something in my head switched and because in my head I was going to
55:44
do like stacked work or whatever I'd set up or had duplicates or whatever,
55:49
but like he had just given me the deck they'd just been playing with and,
55:54
so I went into some routines and you know cutting to four aces and stuff and
55:57
I noticed the difference in reaction because the audience had just been using
56:02
that deck so they know like even more so that it's like legit and organic and.
56:09
How funny that that was the one place that a deck of cards is organic because
56:13
it was already there as opposed to me out a deck and yeah it was just a small
56:17
little note that you know people notice that stuff and,
56:21
and so it made it fun so so from then for the rest of the night i made it a
56:25
point that anytime i would do a little set at one of the dealer's tables when
56:30
they'd take a break and i'd switch out, I would just use the deck they would,
56:33
they were just using and it made a big difference.
56:35
So that was my little gig story of something I learned. What about you, Nick?
56:40
What about you? So I've been working on a routine, which I'm just affectionately calling wishes.
56:46
And boring. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
56:50
That was just for comedy. Okay, go on. So it was just about trying to do like
56:54
a Q&A style effect where people make wishes. And, you know, the methods I had
56:59
required a few people to do some cool things. And eventually I just went, you know what?
57:03
After a big chat with Morten Christensen, I came up with a method that scales it right back.
57:08
And now it's done to the effect of like people write and accumulate questions
57:12
i give people i'll let people write down a wish i accumulate them but then i
57:16
put them on a board like a giant board people the effect is people can i nominate
57:20
i give them envelopes they go up there to the board,
57:23
choose a wish either for themselves or for someone else it goes in the envelope
57:27
they take a seat and then when i do the effect i go if you have an envelope
57:30
hold it up i take the envelopes back i can tell who made the wish and what the
57:35
wish was at the end of it right it's a really cool bit,
57:37
but i had someone come to theater of magic twice in a row just to tell me that they,
57:43
one of the like so there's many wishes on there i've got like 50 plus wishes
57:46
and it's just growing and growing and growing i have more than i can actually
57:49
put on the wall at this point,
57:51
and so they came back twice in a row just to tell me that they made a wish and
57:57
it came true because the premise of my routine which adam axford actually helped me write.
58:02
The entire premise originally was just that if two or more people wish for something
58:06
that the universe will deliver like that's that's the long and short of it right,
58:09
and there's a lot of things to,
58:11
to back that up with theories and you know even biblical notions if you read
58:15
matthew 18 18 and read onward like that's sort of what inspired me to do it
58:19
originally but the cool thing is that like.
58:22
Someone made the wish and then you go find the same wish so like somebody's
58:26
already made it you just need to make it for yourself which means like you're
58:29
already there this guy came back to my show last week and he goes so i wish
58:33
for a big bigger house. And I'm like, great.
58:35
And he goes, four days ago, I bought a bigger house. And I was like,
58:39
awesome and so i just went like this is supposed to be a trick but it was just
58:46
this little moment of like providence where i went like oh oh it's real.
58:51
And so i'm just wondering like how many stories will come out of this people
58:56
who are like oh i wish i had a dog you know there's little wishes like that
58:59
i wish i had a dog i wish i lost weight i wish i wish i stress less you know like
59:03
like every time it's like oh i wish i stress less i go oh i think i know what
59:06
you wish is i go into my bag and i i throw him a stress ball and i go that's
59:09
for you you're gonna be fine and then i move on to the next thing but it was just,
59:13
i just thought it man it would be cool if it actually happened and sure enough
59:16
it did actually happen so yeah,
59:20
what do you say we wrap up yeah you're helping the manner you're actually helping
59:23
them manifest their goals in a way yeah dreams their dreams it's kind of adorable wow yeah,
59:29
so now what do you say we wrap this up with some rapid fire questions and we
59:33
we call it a night what do you guys think cool rapid fire i like it all right you ready rapid fire,
59:40
sean taylor favorite magician of all time you only have one,
59:47
Damn right. Come back to that.
59:51
All right, give us five. Go.
59:57
I'm going to say David Burglass. Nice. Yeah, yeah. I love his book too.
1:00:03
Absolutely love it. Who's the most underrated magician working today?
1:00:09
Wow. Gosh, underrated. You.
1:00:20
I'll take it what's a trick that every magician should perform at least once,
1:00:26
thumb tip oh it's a good one what's a trick what's a trick that every magician
1:00:32
should retire don't say thumb tip.
1:00:37
Double cross the vanishing bandana well anything that everybody else is doing Good, good call.
1:00:44
So double cross. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
1:00:47
Books or DVDs that every serious magician should study.
1:00:52
I think you need to study books outside of magic. I've got a book sitting here
1:00:57
on my table, which is called Bulletproof Problem Solving.
1:01:00
Brilliant book. So find books outside of magic, you know, Dale Carnegie,
1:01:06
you know, find those books about developing yourself as a person,
1:01:10
as well as the magic books.
1:01:12
Okay. Two more. If you could spend an afternoon or sessioning with any magician,
1:01:18
living, dead, your call, who would it be?
1:01:23
Wow a bunch of us spent a great afternoon with danny da ortiz in melbourne a
1:01:29
few years back that was a huge thrill for me,
1:01:32
i enjoyed every minute of that i i'd be happy to do that all over again but
1:01:37
probably on balance my choice would be eugene burger love the man to bits that's a good one yeah,
1:01:45
and last one what are you still trying to improve in your own magic and in your own performance.
1:01:56
Still trying to improve everything i don't think you ever stop learning and
1:02:00
i don't think you ever really crack everything i think i i'm still trying to improve everything,
1:02:08
great questions and look we're just gonna have to have him back because with
1:02:12
the guy that comes over 200 effects there's like we didn't even scratch the
1:02:16
surface i mean we were talking off air about as a business
1:02:19
you know share multiple income streams as a magician all these things that we're
1:02:23
just gonna have to make this as part two when your next book comes out.
1:02:27
Now, before we wrap up, Sean, how can people get in touch with you if they do
1:02:32
want your consulting or their follow-up questions?
1:02:36
So they can email me, sean at seantaylor.com.au is my email address.
1:02:42
So they can email me there if they want to find out more about my material.
1:02:47
My books, the two mentalism books are now, Now, I've written about half a dozen
1:02:51
books altogether, but the two mentalism books are now available on Amazon,
1:02:56
which makes it really super easy. It means I don't have to post them all around
1:03:00
the world. You can order them from Amazon.
1:03:02
Oh, how good is that? Okay, that's perfect. And look, we're going to leave.
1:03:06
We're going to finish our episode in the way that we always do,
1:03:09
which is by giving our guest the final word.
1:03:17
Hey thanks so much for listening and watching everybody great to meet all of
1:03:22
you and get in touch if you need any help,
1:03:26
thanks for listening it's time for us to disappear now disappear now but we'll
1:03:32
see you again on the next episode of the magic guys.