Latest / Ridiculous History / Lithuanian Book Smugglers Vs. The Russian Empire
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
- 0:27Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
- 0:30Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. That is our super producer,
- 0:34Speaker 1: Mr Max Williams. They call me ben fun fact nol Uh.
- 0:40Speaker 1: Neither of us speak the Lithuanian language. It's true. I
- 0:44Speaker 1: did try it for about a half an hour on
- 0:47Speaker 1: duo lingo and I am point o O O one
- 0:51Speaker 1: two three six repeating proficient awesome, dude, congratulations and you
- 0:56Speaker 1: know what which means I can pronounce the word of
- 0:59Speaker 1: the day. That's yeah, Kinnygnatia. Uh, we'll get, we'll get,
- 1:04Speaker 1: We'll get to what this means. We want to shout
- 1:06Speaker 1: out any Lithuanian Ridiculous Historians in the audience today, because
- 1:12Speaker 1: just a little more than a month ago, Lithuania celebrated
- 1:16Speaker 1: something called kyn Ignatia Diana the day of the book Smugglers,
- 1:21Speaker 1: and that's kind of what this episode is about. It's
- 1:23Speaker 1: so interesting the way history works, because yes, the three
- 1:27Speaker 1: of us don't ourselves speak the Lithuanian language with fluency,
- 1:32Speaker 1: but if things have gone just a little bit differently,
- 1:35Speaker 1: nobody would be speaking this language today. And it's there's
- 1:39Speaker 1: an amazing tale of the struggle for literacy and the
- 1:42Speaker 1: struggle for culture here. And I don't know about you guys,
- 1:45Speaker 1: but after I was after I caught up with this
- 1:47Speaker 1: and learned this story, which was totally new to me,
- 1:50Speaker 1: I was gassed. I was inspired. I love nerd fights. Well, yeah,
- 1:54Speaker 1: and I think we're all I mean, we're not. We're
- 1:57Speaker 1: not fans of book bands as a thing. Stories of
- 2:01Speaker 1: book bands are always interesting because it usually points to
- 2:04Speaker 1: a power struggle. Anytime there's like a desire to kind
- 2:08Speaker 1: of tap down on information, it means that some ruling
- 2:12Speaker 1: power is losing their grasp on control. And it's always
- 2:16Speaker 1: an interesting tipping point because, as we know, usually when
- 2:19Speaker 1: you do things like that, like say, oh no, you
- 2:21Speaker 1: can't have these books around anymore, let's burn them all,
- 2:24Speaker 1: there's usually a backlash of some kind or other, and
- 2:28Speaker 1: the one in today's story is particularly interesting and creative. Yes, agreed,
- 2:33Speaker 1: this is crime for the greater good. We hope that
- 2:36Speaker 1: you will agree with that assessment. By the end of
- 2:39Speaker 1: today's story. Let's maybe let's later get the lay of
- 2:43Speaker 1: the lands here, So this has Russia involved during this time,
- 2:48Speaker 1: we're talking about sarist Russia. Russia dominated by the Star system.
- 2:55Speaker 1: They had taken control of a place called Lithuania after
- 3:00Speaker 1: the Commonwealth of Poland. Lithuania was divided in annexed like Prussia, Austria,
- 3:08Speaker 1: and Russia all came in and they split up this
- 3:11Speaker 1: area in sevent If you were living in Lithuania at
- 3:15Speaker 1: this time, the majority of your country fell under the
- 3:19Speaker 1: control of Russia, who had absolutely zero respect for Lithuanians
- 3:24Speaker 1: as a people or culture. Yeah, and we know that.
- 3:26Speaker 1: You know. Oftentimes conquering powers when they take their cut,
- 3:30Speaker 1: they liked the new subjects under their rule to fall
- 3:33Speaker 1: in line with their way of life, which includes, of
- 3:35Speaker 1: course their religion and sarist Russia, I believe would fall
- 3:40Speaker 1: under Russian Orthodoxy, but historically Lithuanians practiced Roman Catholicism. This
- 3:47Speaker 1: was not a good thing in the eyes of their
- 3:50Speaker 1: new rulers. They saw it as a potential threat to
- 3:54Speaker 1: their supremacy. We see this all the time. Any conquering
- 3:57Speaker 1: forces coming in, the first thing they do is try
- 4:00Speaker 1: to convert by force, usually um the people under their
- 4:05Speaker 1: rule to their religion. So that's exactly what Russia did.
- 4:09Speaker 1: The folks in power. They did it very much with
- 4:13Speaker 1: an iron fist by demolishing churches or chapels. Rather, they
- 4:17Speaker 1: also prohibited construction of certain types of shrines, and these
- 4:23Speaker 1: were structures that were all over the place. Apparently they
- 4:26Speaker 1: were around two shrines per kilometer there in Lithuania. And
- 4:32Speaker 1: another thing that happens in these situations, especially when folks
- 4:36Speaker 1: are overtaken by forces, they don't want to do that thing.
- 4:40Speaker 1: It's gonna take a lot to force this and usually
- 4:43Speaker 1: historically takes a very long time and results in a
- 4:46Speaker 1: lot of death and chaos and blood shed. So understandably,
- 4:51Speaker 1: the Lithuanian people wanted to hold onto their own culture,
- 4:55Speaker 1: and they had a university system there, and this is
- 4:58Speaker 1: a very learned people and a lot of scholars specializing
- 5:02Speaker 1: in the study of this religion, their faith in their
- 5:05Speaker 1: history and culture. So these university systems they essentially organized
- 5:11Speaker 1: the students rather organized um along with the clergy, and
- 5:16Speaker 1: they led a pretty violent uprising in eighteen thirty one
- 5:20Speaker 1: against the Russian occupiers. And it was initially a pretty
- 5:26Speaker 1: small scale kind of thing because Lithuania had a very
- 5:30Speaker 1: small population of only around a million people. By the way,
- 5:34Speaker 1: incredible Atlas Obscure article always love their work. If you
- 5:39Speaker 1: want to check out the article by Michael Waters from
- 5:42Speaker 1: July nine, seventeen the nineteenth century Lithuanians who smuggled books
- 5:47Speaker 1: to save their language, sort of giving you a little
- 5:50Speaker 1: bit of a taste of what's to come here. Yeah,
- 5:52Speaker 1: and I want to I want to go back to
- 5:54Speaker 1: this because I'm a big fan of contextualizing history, So
- 5:58Speaker 1: these wayside shrines will familiar to people who are history
- 6:02Speaker 1: buffs in this area. But the best one are the
- 6:07Speaker 1: best comparison that I could think of is Starbucks in
- 6:10Speaker 1: the US. Imagine if Starbucks had religious significance to people,
- 6:15Speaker 1: which they made for some big coffee fans. Imagine if
- 6:18Speaker 1: some foreign power came in and demolished every Starbucks. That's
- 6:21Speaker 1: how common these things were. So this was very much
- 6:25Speaker 1: an attack on this culture, and the resistance went on
- 6:29Speaker 1: for such a long time. We talked about the eighteen
- 6:31Speaker 1: thirty one University student resistance, which stands out because, like
- 6:36Speaker 1: you said, most resistance was operating on a pretty small scale,
- 6:40Speaker 1: and that was kind of an exception. But if you
- 6:42Speaker 1: fast forward about three decades, you see another massive insurrection,
- 6:48Speaker 1: and this is the backlash of This is what leads
- 6:50Speaker 1: to the cracked down on the Lithuanian language itself. The
- 6:54Speaker 1: war shifts to become a war on hearts, minds, culture
- 6:59Speaker 1: and language. I want to shout out the Vintage News
- 7:02Speaker 1: this awesome, awesome article by E. L. Hammington's. In the
- 7:05Speaker 1: nineteenth century, Lithuanians smuggled books in an act of rebellion
- 7:09Speaker 1: against Russian control. Here's what happens before, Here's why these books.
- 7:14Speaker 1: Book smugglers exist. Eighteen sixty three, Like always say, this
- 7:19Speaker 1: is the biggest resistance movement. Sixty six thousand Lithuanians out
- 7:24Speaker 1: of a population of around a million, from all walks
- 7:27Speaker 1: of life, clergy, merchants, surfs, you know, like small scale
- 7:32Speaker 1: agricultural folks. They launch an armed rebellion, and that rebellion
- 7:38Speaker 1: is crushed. Thousands of people are dead, thousands are exiled
- 7:42Speaker 1: to Siberia, which at this time is pretty much a
- 7:44Speaker 1: death sentence as well. And then sorry, Alexander the Second says,
- 7:50Speaker 1: screw you, guys, We're going to crack down on this.
- 7:54Speaker 1: We're going to What they wanted to do is Russia
- 7:57Speaker 1: fi the Lithuanian population real world, to make things more
- 8:00Speaker 1: Russian Russia PI and remove its history. So like you know,
- 8:05Speaker 1: remove the Catholic Church. We want to issue we being sorry,
- 8:09Speaker 1: Alexander the second want to issue temporary rules for state
- 8:15Speaker 1: junior schools of what they called the Northwestern Cry. And
- 8:18Speaker 1: this was a law against children speaking or reading Lithuanian
- 8:24Speaker 1: in school. You could only read Russian. As you can imagine,
- 8:27Speaker 1: this is really difficult for kids who are you know,
- 8:30Speaker 1: already pretty far along in the education process and now
- 8:33Speaker 1: they have to learn a new language. This is uh
- 8:37Speaker 1: and it even gets worse the next year they're like, no,
- 8:39Speaker 1: no Lithuanian language in print. Ever. Yeah, it's just I mean,
- 8:44Speaker 1: you see these kinds of things throughout history and you
- 8:46Speaker 1: wonder it's like, are you're not able to read the room?
- 8:49Speaker 1: I mean, this is not gonna end well like short
- 8:52Speaker 1: of just like app outright genocide, you know, I mean,
- 8:55Speaker 1: it's it's just not very functional. You know, these folks
- 8:58Speaker 1: have their own language, they have their own culture. Short
- 9:00Speaker 1: of just wiping them out and starting from scratch, it's
- 9:03Speaker 1: very uh unlikely. But there's going to be a mass
- 9:06Speaker 1: you know, falling in line and just a wiping the
- 9:08Speaker 1: slate clean of all of this stuff. And this is
- 9:11Speaker 1: how human beings cling to language and culture in history
- 9:15Speaker 1: um is. So it's always them a little bit wondering,
- 9:18Speaker 1: and I guess it's just a matter of when you're
- 9:20Speaker 1: a supreme leader, you guess you can do whatever you
- 9:22Speaker 1: want and no one really questions you, and people just say, yeah,
- 9:25Speaker 1: it's a great idea, that'll totally work. But as we know,
- 9:27Speaker 1: because these small scale, even the big ones, small scale
- 9:31Speaker 1: sixty six thousand, pretty small scale, um compared to the
- 9:34Speaker 1: the Russian military might, you really can't fight the power here.
- 9:38Speaker 1: You have to kind of resort to more creative, kind
- 9:41Speaker 1: of sneaky means. So this ban on the Lithuanian press
- 9:47Speaker 1: was essentially an attempt to completely erase their language and
- 9:50Speaker 1: their culture and replace it with that of of of
- 9:54Speaker 1: Mother Russia. Lithuanian kids were also supposed to attend state
- 9:58Speaker 1: schools where they learned the sur really alphabet, which, by
- 10:01Speaker 1: the way, I mean, despite Russia being a pretty cruel
- 10:05Speaker 1: and uh intense occupier in the situation, I do think
- 10:08Speaker 1: that this relic alphabet is one of the most beautiful
- 10:11Speaker 1: printed languages I've ever seen. It's really really cool looking,
- 10:14Speaker 1: but also I imagine, very very complex and difficult to
- 10:17Speaker 1: learn from scratch. So a lot of historical reports from
- 10:20Speaker 1: the time kind of indicated mainly what I was surprised by,
- 10:24Speaker 1: just that the Russian rulers didn't really think that this
- 10:27Speaker 1: would be that big a deal to institute this span.
- 10:30Speaker 1: It's like, come on, Russians, great, they think they're alphabets
- 10:33Speaker 1: beautiful too. This will be a great opportunity for them
- 10:36Speaker 1: to you know, start a new under, a new uh,
- 10:38Speaker 1: a new culture, and a new language. But like I
- 10:41Speaker 1: also said, and I think everyone probably pretty easily can
- 10:45Speaker 1: see how this is the case. This is not something
- 10:48Speaker 1: they were willing to just give up without a huge fight.
- 10:58Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. It has uh similar assumptions as the
- 11:04Speaker 1: more recent assumptions about in the invasion of you crying.
- 11:08Speaker 1: You can't think that people will just say they have
- 11:13Speaker 1: no nationality or cultural identity because you told them they didn't. Actually,
- 11:17Speaker 1: that's something that people will go to the map for.
- 11:20Speaker 1: Throughout history we see this happen. And the Lithuanian I
- 11:26Speaker 1: guess you can call them the intelligentsia, you know, the
- 11:28Speaker 1: university folks, the clergy, so on. They're not going out
- 11:32Speaker 1: without a fight, and they figure out first they figure
- 11:35Speaker 1: out a loophole, very obvious loophole. Russia is has annexed
- 11:40Speaker 1: and has occupied in this area, so they can prevent
- 11:43Speaker 1: printing presses in this country from making stuff in Lithuanian,
- 11:48Speaker 1: but they can't do anything for books printed in foreign lands.
- 11:53Speaker 1: And so these guys get together and start printing things
- 11:58Speaker 1: in other countries and then they ugle them into Lithuania.
- 12:02Speaker 1: This is the rise of the kenneg Nazi or pardon
- 12:06Speaker 1: my Lithuanian her book carriers would be the translation. They
- 12:10Speaker 1: transported books across the border, and then they functioned as
- 12:13Speaker 1: an underground distribution service to get them to Lithuanian children,
- 12:17Speaker 1: to get them to other cities and villages, and at
- 12:21Speaker 1: first there was a cottage industry. These guys were lone wolves.
- 12:25Speaker 1: They were walking alone, literally carrying books and sacks like
- 12:29Speaker 1: some kind of reading rainbow Santa Claus or. They were
- 12:32Speaker 1: in covered wagons and they had these way stations where
- 12:35Speaker 1: they would drop these books off. Of course, they were
- 12:39Speaker 1: traveling by cover of night, and they were also traveling
- 12:43Speaker 1: when the weather was bad, particularly during winter blizzards, because
- 12:46Speaker 1: that's when guards and Russian authorities would be most likely
- 12:50Speaker 1: to you know, stay in and stay warm. Sure, I
- 12:53Speaker 1: mean it reminds me of like, you know, in in
- 12:55Speaker 1: robin Hood, the Disney cartoon with the cartoon Fox, robin
- 13:00Speaker 1: Hood dresses up as a beggar, you know, to kind
- 13:02Speaker 1: of like be incognito and and and kind of slide
- 13:05Speaker 1: under the radar. That was a big thing they did
- 13:08Speaker 1: as well. Oftentimes women who were smuggling these books dressed
- 13:12Speaker 1: like beggars and they hid these books in sacks of
- 13:15Speaker 1: cheese or eggs or bread, kind of like a bindle situation.
- 13:19Speaker 1: Some even used tool belts and pretended to be workmen
- 13:24Speaker 1: and disguised newspapers under their clothes, like you might be
- 13:29Speaker 1: able to wrap your body, you know, and clothes if
- 13:31Speaker 1: you had like a kind of like layers on, you
- 13:33Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily notice that there were, you know, printed materials
- 13:36Speaker 1: being concealed underneath. So by around late in the nineteenth century,
- 13:43Speaker 1: everyone was kind of getting in on the game because
- 13:45Speaker 1: this was a way of participating in the preservation of
- 13:50Speaker 1: the Lithuanian culture, which meant a lot to everybody. Again,
- 13:54Speaker 1: the whole layered clothing. They would sometimes pretend to be
- 13:58Speaker 1: overweight by stuffing clothes with these newspapers and books, and
- 14:02Speaker 1: doctors even got it on them by hiding books inside
- 14:05Speaker 1: of their medical bags. We had farmers who were moving around,
- 14:09Speaker 1: you know, grain and things like that and vegetables. Um,
- 14:12Speaker 1: they would hide publications in there as well. Even musicians
- 14:16Speaker 1: would hide things in their in their instrument cases. Yeah,
- 14:19Speaker 1: these are all common tricks for smugglers nowadays. But we
- 14:24Speaker 1: have to realize that these folks weren't coming from a
- 14:27Speaker 1: criminal background. In the vast majority of cases, this was
- 14:31Speaker 1: a life to which they were not acclimated and they
- 14:34Speaker 1: were doing it. Again, I count emphasized this enough for
- 14:37Speaker 1: a greater good. They even set up underground schools. If
- 14:41Speaker 1: the authorities are keeping too much of an eye on
- 14:45Speaker 1: the actual school buildings, then they start teaching in churches
- 14:49Speaker 1: and it holds and they be These book smugglers become
- 14:53Speaker 1: folk heroes. They become a a national symbol. They're the
- 14:56Speaker 1: face of the resistance, and the Russians are deaf infinitely
- 15:00Speaker 1: after them. We want to introduce the guy is a
- 15:03Speaker 1: key figure in this. His name is Bishop multi Laos Valencius.
- 15:07Speaker 1: He had already been an historian for a long time.
- 15:12Speaker 1: He had written a lot of religious and secular works
- 15:15Speaker 1: in Lithuanian and he was sometimes called the greatest Lithuanian
- 15:20Speaker 1: personality in the nineteenth century, which is a very specific award.
- 15:24Speaker 1: He's the guy who made the first large scale attempt
- 15:28Speaker 1: to get these books into the country, and he did
- 15:32Speaker 1: this by me. He was religiously motivated, at least in part.
- 15:36Speaker 1: He wanted to publish more prayer books in the native language,
- 15:40Speaker 1: so he sent some cash to Prussia across the border
- 15:43Speaker 1: to create a printing press, and then in eighteen sixty
- 15:47Speaker 1: seven he got a bunch of priests who were in
- 15:51Speaker 1: Prussia to bring the books back into Lithuania and start
- 15:55Speaker 1: handing him out to locals. He was organizing this and
- 15:59Speaker 1: at first he was just doing Latin reprints of religious text.
- 16:04Speaker 1: Their problem with that, of course, was it was Roman Catholic.
- 16:07Speaker 1: They weigh everything in Russian, hence Cyrillic not Latin. Lithuanian
- 16:11Speaker 1: is in Latin alphabet and or a Latin alphabet and
- 16:15Speaker 1: uh as as stuff grew kind of like a way
- 16:20Speaker 1: nicer version of Walter White and breaking bad, his operation
- 16:24Speaker 1: grew and his ambitions grew in step. So he started
- 16:27Speaker 1: to commission original works, and then he started to get
- 16:31Speaker 1: some of his own works printed out at this press
- 16:34Speaker 1: in Prussia at this press and Prussia and his his
- 16:38Speaker 1: team started moving them across the border. And one thing
- 16:42Speaker 1: that's interesting about this operation is because of the way
- 16:45Speaker 1: it started, because of this bishop. A lot of these
- 16:48Speaker 1: are early smugglers were priests, which is probably not what
- 16:51Speaker 1: they were thinking of when they took their vows, but
- 16:53Speaker 1: they were. They were down to clown Many shore to
- 16:57Speaker 1: the tune of around nineteen thousand books that were printed
- 17:00Speaker 1: in East Prussia and brought back into the country, back
- 17:02Speaker 1: into Lithuania. Eleven of these smugglers are at the very least,
- 17:07Speaker 1: according to the vintage news piece and their research, were caught.
- 17:11Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily an instant death sentence, but you did
- 17:15Speaker 1: get banished to a little place called Siberia, he might
- 17:18Speaker 1: have heard of, pretty brutal, basically a death sentence, if
- 17:22Speaker 1: not just the most unpleasant long term existence you could
- 17:26Speaker 1: possibly imagine. And we're gonna get more into that and
- 17:30Speaker 1: just a little bit. But despite the dangers um and
- 17:34Speaker 1: in some of the negative outcomes, this movement and this
- 17:37Speaker 1: resistance did grow. Valencius's own, uh you know, kind of
- 17:43Speaker 1: initial group, the Kindnignace started to kind of shoot off
- 17:49Speaker 1: into little splinter groups, uh, And then those sort of
- 17:52Speaker 1: developed into a larger smuggling organization, sort of a network,
- 17:57Speaker 1: and they had uh names such a Stimulus, Rebirth, the Sprout,
- 18:02Speaker 1: the Truth, the Ray of Light Compulsion that's the weird one, uh,
- 18:07Speaker 1: and the morning Star. And they started to import books
- 18:11Speaker 1: from even as far as the US, where there was
- 18:15Speaker 1: a pretty large Lithuanian American expat population who would help
- 18:19Speaker 1: with the printing. Yeah, and these organizations all they kind
- 18:25Speaker 1: of collaborated, but they could also act independently when needed.
- 18:29Speaker 1: So they distributed textbooks, science books, fiction, sermons, folklore, you
- 18:34Speaker 1: name it. They became printing houses almost And yes, this
- 18:40Speaker 1: this was a widespread activity in its glory days, right
- 18:43Speaker 1: at its apex, But that doesn't mean it was easy.
- 18:47Speaker 1: The Lithuanian border was tough to cross. There were three
- 18:51Speaker 1: different lines of Russian security, much more intense than the
- 18:55Speaker 1: Custom Agency would run into a border crossings today. The
- 18:59Speaker 1: first line was a bunch of soldiers along the border
- 19:03Speaker 1: who were purposely distributed really densely so that they could
- 19:08Speaker 1: see each other. They were like line of sight with
- 19:10Speaker 1: each other. And then if you made it past that line,
- 19:13Speaker 1: there was another row of soldiers a little less intense,
- 19:16Speaker 1: spread further out, and then the last line of defense.
- 19:19Speaker 1: That third line was the Russian Empire police officers. They
- 19:23Speaker 1: rode around on horseback and they had a network of
- 19:27Speaker 1: local informants who I think, we're very unethical people. If
- 19:31Speaker 1: you got caught, you would get first off, you would
- 19:35Speaker 1: get tied to a post and they would whip the
- 19:37Speaker 1: snot out of you. This is not like a fun
- 19:40Speaker 1: birthday spanking. This kind of stuff leaves scars for the
- 19:42Speaker 1: rest of your life. And then you were either imprisoned
- 19:46Speaker 1: and maybe in Lithuania, or you were sent to Siberia.
- 19:49Speaker 1: And if you tried to run, like if you somehow
- 19:52Speaker 1: had a high enough constitution role to get back on
- 19:57Speaker 1: your feet after you get whipped and then make a
- 19:59Speaker 1: go for it, they would just shoot you in the back. Uh.
- 20:02Speaker 1: They burned the Russian soldiers, that is, they burned every
- 20:05Speaker 1: single book or journal that they found on the smugglers.
- 20:09Speaker 1: We know that the number of smugglers caught and transported
- 20:13Speaker 1: to Siberia or shot or imprisoned, it's kind of lost
- 20:18Speaker 1: to history. The first major arrest was sometime in either
- 20:22Speaker 1: eighteen seventy or eighteen seventy one. Russian forces caught and
- 20:28Speaker 1: sentenced eleven members of Valentius crew. They were eight of them,
- 20:34Speaker 1: five priests of farmer and even a noble were sent
- 20:38Speaker 1: to Siberia and the operation was compromised. So just a
- 20:43Speaker 1: few years later, in eighteen seventy five, he died. But
- 20:48Speaker 1: in the words of che ga Vera, it's like, shoot, fool,
- 20:52Speaker 1: you were only killing a man because his mission continued
- 20:56Speaker 1: well after his death, thanks to his thanks to his mentee,
- 21:01Speaker 1: his disciple, and that I mean, honestly, ben that's that
- 21:04Speaker 1: quote sums up this whole situation. You know, you just
- 21:07Speaker 1: can't do what the Russians are trying to do without
- 21:11Speaker 1: the most draconian measures, like literally genocide. Human beings are
- 21:16Speaker 1: going to cling on to the things that that they
- 21:19Speaker 1: give them, uh, identity, uh. And this stuff is very
- 21:23Speaker 1: deeply ingrained through generation. So I mean, yeah, it's absolutely true.
- 21:27Speaker 1: And so it's sort of like a losing battle on
- 21:29Speaker 1: the Russian side, But boy did they continue to try.
- 21:32Speaker 1: But to your point, ben, Um, this message and this
- 21:36Speaker 1: you know struggle, this uh cause did continue and the
- 21:40Speaker 1: leadership was passed on to somebody else. Valencia's basically had
- 21:45Speaker 1: a successor sort of already in place a guy named
- 21:49Speaker 1: Urgus Bielini's, who is a Lithuanian nationalist whose father was
- 21:55Speaker 1: a very um intense political activist, and so he kind
- 22:00Speaker 1: of followed in his father's footsteps there and was ready
- 22:03Speaker 1: to go. Biolini's met Valencius in eighteen seventy three, after
- 22:09Speaker 1: Billinus graduated from a university in Latvia and Riga, Latvia,
- 22:14Speaker 1: and by that point this resistance we've been talking about
- 22:17Speaker 1: was already happening in a big way, and he was
- 22:21Speaker 1: of course very ardently in favor of a Lithuanian culture
- 22:25Speaker 1: and identity and those things not being wiped away by Russia.
- 22:30Speaker 1: So he and Valencius really hit it off. They kind
- 22:34Speaker 1: of formed a pact essentially that they were going to
- 22:37Speaker 1: band together um and continue this preservation of the culture
- 22:41Speaker 1: and the language that they both loved and felt was very,
- 22:44Speaker 1: very very important to continue. And he was adamant in
- 22:49Speaker 1: this cause. He said that he would not rest until quote,
- 22:53Speaker 1: the Muscovites got out of Lithuania. That's what led him
- 22:58Speaker 1: to create the Garsha ken Ignashi Society in eighteen five.
- 23:04Speaker 1: This would become the largest smuggling operation of its type
- 23:08Speaker 1: in the country and he was given the unofficial title
- 23:12Speaker 1: the King of the Book Carriers, which is no, yeah,
- 23:16Speaker 1: you know what, I think it is cooler than Wallace
- 23:18Speaker 1: Stevenson's Emperor of ice Cream. So that's a great poem.
- 23:21Speaker 1: But by the way, muscow By just refers to people
- 23:24Speaker 1: native to Moscow. Yeah. So basically he was saying he
- 23:27Speaker 1: was gonna do whatever it took. He was going to
- 23:29Speaker 1: continue in this cause until every last Russian was gone,
- 23:33Speaker 1: which was not something that was very much in the
- 23:34Speaker 1: car and so basically saying almost it was almost as
- 23:37Speaker 1: if to say until I die. Yeah. And so members
- 23:41Speaker 1: of the society created Soon there were thousands of them.
- 23:45Speaker 1: This was by far the biggest organization and it had
- 23:48Speaker 1: the power of the people because they crowdsourced money to
- 23:51Speaker 1: get books from these publishers in Prussia, and then they
- 23:55Speaker 1: started a subscription service. How cool is this You could
- 24:00Speaker 1: put some money in for the cause, right, and instead
- 24:03Speaker 1: of just like buying guns or something for hopelessly outnumbered militia,
- 24:07Speaker 1: by the way, you are buying books. And this guy
- 24:11Speaker 1: is credited with smuggling. Get this, folks, Nearly half of
- 24:15Speaker 1: all the books brought into Lithuania from East Prussia during
- 24:20Speaker 1: this time, he even was smuggling to Lithuania's living in Latvia.
- 24:25Speaker 1: The heat was on. The Russian authorities were hip to
- 24:28Speaker 1: this guy, and by the eighteen nineties they put out
- 24:30Speaker 1: a bounty on him. This is like the most militant
- 24:35Speaker 1: reading rainbow ever and there were several man hunts. He
- 24:38Speaker 1: was able to evade capture for a long time because
- 24:43Speaker 1: literally everybody except for Russians and turn Coats are on
- 24:47Speaker 1: his side. Again, we have to emphasize these folks aren't criminals.
- 24:52Speaker 1: They're doing an act that has become criminalized by a
- 24:55Speaker 1: foreign power. And at the turn of the century, while
- 25:01Speaker 1: he is on the run, mind you, how badass is this?
- 25:05Speaker 1: He created a Lithuanian newspaper and if you got a subscription,
- 25:10Speaker 1: he would just deliver it to you regularly. It was
- 25:12Speaker 1: called the White Eagle. It was printed on one of
- 25:15Speaker 1: the only press is active in Lithuania at the time,
- 25:19Speaker 1: and he brought it in from Prussia. That's why I
- 25:22Speaker 1: think is so cool. He said, why are we just
- 25:25Speaker 1: smuggling books? I want to smuggle in an actual printing press.
- 25:29Speaker 1: We're not sure exactly how he was able to pull
- 25:32Speaker 1: this off, but he got it past those three lines,
- 25:35Speaker 1: and he was also able to get the supplies you
- 25:37Speaker 1: need to run a printing press. And then he taught
- 25:41Speaker 1: a dot another smuggler, a guy named Stepanus Povlionis, to
- 25:46Speaker 1: work a printing press. I mean, I am, I am
- 25:49Speaker 1: imprinting pressed with these kids. Yeah, it's pretty incredible because
- 25:53Speaker 1: it's kid man I like that. But you know what
- 25:56Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. A sprinting press is like
- 25:58Speaker 1: a massive operation, a massive piece of machinery so to smuggling,
- 26:03Speaker 1: and it would have had to come in and pieces
- 26:05Speaker 1: and then be assembled. I mean, this is like difficult
- 26:08Speaker 1: stuff that you can't just kind of intuitively figure out.
- 26:11Speaker 1: But they worked out all the logistics and they made
- 26:13Speaker 1: it happen. Um So, I don't know if we mentioned,
- 26:16Speaker 1: but Bielinas came from a lower class background. He was
- 26:20Speaker 1: a peasant and through his own you know, blood, sweat
- 26:24Speaker 1: and tears and effort, he kind of ascended to the
- 26:28Speaker 1: position of an intellectual. And this atics obscure article very
- 26:32Speaker 1: apthlete describes him as a defender of the Lithuanian language.
- 26:35Speaker 1: But this was something that was not the most out
- 26:39Speaker 1: of the ordinary thing. Under these extraordinary circumstances of the time,
- 26:43Speaker 1: because the Russian Empire had abolished serfdom in the early
- 26:47Speaker 1: eighteen sixties, and therefore there was this kind of new
- 26:51Speaker 1: class that emerged, a class known as peasant intellectuals that
- 26:56Speaker 1: kind of begun to take shape because if you weren't
- 26:59Speaker 1: just constantly having to work the land as a surf
- 27:02Speaker 1: it kind of freed up some bandwidth, like read and
- 27:06Speaker 1: educate yourself and become something different than just a run
- 27:10Speaker 1: of the mill, you know, manual laborer. Uh So this
- 27:14Speaker 1: became almost an unanticipated outcome of Russia taking that action,
- 27:19Speaker 1: you know, getting rid of the surf class. They kind
- 27:22Speaker 1: of created the groundwork for their own overthrow, at least
- 27:26Speaker 1: in terms of um, the spread of anti Russia information
- 27:31Speaker 1: and and the idea of being able to kind of
- 27:33Speaker 1: preserve the culture of these invaded people. So there's a person,
- 27:38Speaker 1: a writer named Zigmantis Kiopa who wrote a book called
- 27:42Speaker 1: the History of Lithuania UM. He described this class as
- 27:46Speaker 1: the most faithful users of the Lithuanian language and largely
- 27:51Speaker 1: occupying the majority of this you know, book smuggling kind
- 27:55Speaker 1: of contingent. Yeah, Like s of the smugglers were peasants,
- 28:00Speaker 1: And I do want to amend the Russian Empire. When
- 28:04Speaker 1: they were putting out their man hunts for Bullinias, they
- 28:06Speaker 1: caught him five times. He just kept getting away because again,
- 28:12Speaker 1: everybody who actually is Lithuaitian is on his side. The
- 28:15Speaker 1: Robin Hood example is pretty spot on there. So it's
- 28:25Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds. Now these guys are getting creative.
- 28:30Speaker 1: Some people are even getting the Russian police to help them.
- 28:34Speaker 1: The head officer of Ario Gala, they're in Central Lithuania,
- 28:38Speaker 1: joins the smuggling conspiracy. That's really what it is, all
- 28:41Speaker 1: smuggling as a conspiracy in and then other people are saying, hey,
- 28:47Speaker 1: there's some loopholes in this press band because if we
- 28:50Speaker 1: print stuff on slabs of clay, they're not considered books,
- 28:55Speaker 1: so they're not technically illegal. We're going to old school
- 28:58Speaker 1: with it. We mentioned the Sea grid schools, right. We
- 29:02Speaker 1: didn't mention how this is tough on the kids though,
- 29:06Speaker 1: because imagine you're a kid. Your parents are basically telling you, look,
- 29:10Speaker 1: now you have two schools. You have the fake school
- 29:13Speaker 1: you have to go to for these Russian jerks, and
- 29:16Speaker 1: then you go to real school at night, and your
- 29:20Speaker 1: neighbor's house and that's where your actual education is going
- 29:24Speaker 1: to happen, So you know, look like you're paying attention
- 29:27Speaker 1: during the day, but don't stress about it, don't try
- 29:30Speaker 1: so we can only imagine how many kids funked. Well,
- 29:33Speaker 1: you say that, and I think there's probably some truth
- 29:35Speaker 1: to that, and I know you're joking, but also, like,
- 29:37Speaker 1: isn't it such a privilege that Americans have We speak
- 29:41Speaker 1: the English, we learn a second language kind of almost
- 29:44Speaker 1: as like a luxury or like as like sort of
- 29:47Speaker 1: like an elective, you know, in school. I know, anytime
- 29:50Speaker 1: I've traveled abroad, it is just like understood nearly that
- 29:56Speaker 1: just about everyone speaks English because it is something that
- 29:59Speaker 1: is just taught and it is a necessity for business
- 30:02Speaker 1: in many ways. But you know, we are so privileged
- 30:05Speaker 1: in you know, it's just not nearly as common for
- 30:08Speaker 1: Americans to like speak multiple languages. But I've bet a
- 30:10Speaker 1: lot of these kids probably did learn Russian pretty well
- 30:14Speaker 1: in addition to Lithuanian and had to kind of like
- 30:17Speaker 1: hide it because honestly, I bet ben if they were flunking,
- 30:20Speaker 1: that would be a bad look, and I bet it
- 30:22Speaker 1: might come back to visit the parents, you know, if
- 30:24Speaker 1: the kids weren't doing well. Yeah, if all, if all
- 30:27Speaker 1: the kids in class were funking, that would be sus.
- 30:30Speaker 1: But you know, to that point they were because this
- 30:32Speaker 1: is Europe, there were probably already a lot of kids
- 30:34Speaker 1: who were bilingual to some degree in Russian or maybe
- 30:39Speaker 1: another language in that area. And yes, of course, the
- 30:43Speaker 1: idea of a secondary extracurricular program after school is still
- 30:48Speaker 1: pretty common throughout the world. Like a lot of Japanese
- 30:50Speaker 1: American kids here in the US go to Japanese school
- 30:54Speaker 1: on the weekends, you know, and it's totally separate from
- 30:57Speaker 1: whatever school they're going to for grade school through high school.
- 31:01Speaker 1: But they're not forced to do this by a state power,
- 31:05Speaker 1: you know. And I think that's one of the big distinctions.
- 31:08Speaker 1: So now we have to ask how many books did
- 31:10Speaker 1: the Russian forces at this time actually burn or actually confiscate.
- 31:16Speaker 1: We know that in one decade to one they confiscated
- 31:22Speaker 1: well over a hundred and seventy three thousand different publications,
- 31:27Speaker 1: and we don't know how many books were actually printed
- 31:30Speaker 1: and smuggled, because we only know the ones that were
- 31:33Speaker 1: caught as a result of the illegality of the operation.
- 31:37Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to keep a tally that could be
- 31:40Speaker 1: easily found by the authorities, because that would be a
- 31:43Speaker 1: tremendous boon to them. The confiscation rate skyrocketed over the
- 31:48Speaker 1: next few years, nights, you know, one to oh four.
- 31:51Speaker 1: And this is why you'll see historians like the one
- 31:54Speaker 1: we referenced earlier saying, if they had to guess, there
- 32:00Speaker 1: could have been millions of smuggled books. Virtually every town
- 32:04Speaker 1: in village had their own treasure trove of illegal books,
- 32:09Speaker 1: as well as a secret Lithuaitian school. And if you
- 32:12Speaker 1: want kids to think school is cool as lame in
- 32:17Speaker 1: ess that sounds, tell them it's secret. People love secrets, man,
- 32:22Speaker 1: And uh, we know that more and more people were
- 32:27Speaker 1: engaging in this conspiracy towards the height of it. It
- 32:30Speaker 1: was kind of like the Hydra organization in Marvel comics
- 32:35Speaker 1: and Marvel films, because anybody could be Hydra and you
- 32:38Speaker 1: didn't really know until they leaned in and whispered, like
- 32:41Speaker 1: hell Hydra. So you would see widows, farmers, doctors, musicians,
- 32:47Speaker 1: like organists, traveling salesman. You know, they would just be
- 32:50Speaker 1: their regular Lithuaitian selves until they leaned in and said,
- 32:54Speaker 1: I've got some bocks. That was like their hale Hydra moment,
- 32:58Speaker 1: and I think that is awesome. But then we see
- 33:02Speaker 1: more secret newspapers, more and more people are rallying against
- 33:05Speaker 1: this idea of Russification. As you can tell, fellow ridiculous historians,
- 33:09Speaker 1: Russification is not going well. It might look okay to
- 33:12Speaker 1: this are on paper, but it's it's not working. People
- 33:16Speaker 1: start organizing music, will get togethers secret plays about how
- 33:21Speaker 1: awesome Lithuanian culture and languages, and then they start having
- 33:25Speaker 1: these things they called picnics, which look like you know,
- 33:28Speaker 1: regular picnics until you hear what people are saying. It's
- 33:32Speaker 1: all about the rebirth of the Lithuanian state or the
- 33:36Speaker 1: resistance against the what they saw as the evil empire
- 33:40Speaker 1: of Russia. So this is inspiring stuff, and it I
- 33:45Speaker 1: think eventually at some point, if we take the Russian perspective,
- 33:49Speaker 1: you're gonna have to say, how long are we gonna
- 33:52Speaker 1: keep up this band, especially if it's not working. You know,
- 33:56Speaker 1: we got like hundreds of soldiers on the border and
- 33:58Speaker 1: they're obviously not great at this. Yeah. Look, I mean
- 34:01Speaker 1: it kind of reminds me of like what happened with
- 34:04Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall for example. You know, where you had
- 34:08Speaker 1: Russia realizing that it was too expensive to maintain that
- 34:12Speaker 1: segregation between East and West Berlin, and to maintain that
- 34:16Speaker 1: iron grasp over information and controlling information and keeping tabs
- 34:21Speaker 1: on everybody and all of these operations, they just balloon
- 34:23Speaker 1: out of control. Um. It just seems like historically Russia
- 34:27Speaker 1: has a history of biting off a little more than
- 34:29Speaker 1: they can chew in the pursuit of ideology. What do
- 34:33Speaker 1: you think about that? Then? Well, it's tough because these
- 34:36Speaker 1: are very very different versions of Russia. That's why I'm
- 34:40Speaker 1: pointing out the thematic commonality of underestimation, you know, with
- 34:45Speaker 1: with Ukraine. Me when I say earlier and I agree,
- 34:48Speaker 1: you know, society should not hold the current government of
- 34:52Speaker 1: Russia responsible for the actions of Sarrost Russia. It's very
- 34:56Speaker 1: very different, but for sure. But yeah, there's there's a
- 34:59Speaker 1: fail earlier to uh, to really understand the vibe here
- 35:04Speaker 1: and the war or the objections. The resistance against this
- 35:08Speaker 1: band is being fought in legal channels too. It's not
- 35:11Speaker 1: all just books smuggling, although that's probably the coolest part
- 35:14Speaker 1: of the story. People were organizing actual petitions to the
- 35:19Speaker 1: Russian Empire and the Russian government would receive these requests
- 35:23Speaker 1: that would say, you know, stuff like we the people
- 35:25Speaker 1: of this village or some sort of constituency, would like
- 35:30Speaker 1: to end the ban on the Lithuanian language. We're just
- 35:34Speaker 1: asking you through legal channels, and eventually the tide turns,
- 35:39Speaker 1: not in Lithuania, but in Russia. Russian intellectuals are saying,
- 35:44Speaker 1: what's the point of this band? We didn't really define it.
- 35:47Speaker 1: People are still writing and speaking and reading in Lithuanian.
- 35:51Speaker 1: They're just using clay tablets because whoever wrote this law
- 35:55Speaker 1: didn't understand how to define stuff. The Council of Ministers
- 36:01Speaker 1: in Russia says, okay, this is officially a failure. Nineteen
- 36:05Speaker 1: o four, they retire the band they ended. They're trying
- 36:10Speaker 1: to reconcile with military groups because something else is happening.
- 36:15Speaker 1: They need more support from anything affiliated with the Russian
- 36:18Speaker 1: Empire because they're in the Russian Japanese War. But it's
- 36:22Speaker 1: too little, too late. Lithuanians are not having it, you
- 36:27Speaker 1: know what I mean. And our guy here bilinists. He
- 36:30Speaker 1: starts talking more and more about being fully independent from Russia.
- 36:35Speaker 1: He becomes like, you know, we we kind of say
- 36:38Speaker 1: it was always an ardent nationalist. Now he is like
- 36:40Speaker 1: a spokesman for Lithuania, and he is one of the
- 36:44Speaker 1: driving forces for the active independence of Lithuania in February
- 36:50Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen. Unfortunately, and this is one of the sad
- 36:55Speaker 1: ironies that happens so often in history, he passed away
- 37:00Speaker 1: eight the month before he died in January eighteen, before
- 37:05Speaker 1: he saw the legislation he had fought so hard for
- 37:09Speaker 1: come to pass. But then, on a lighter note, imagine
- 37:13Speaker 1: you're a book smuggler. Imagine you're one of the teachers,
- 37:17Speaker 1: remember the clergy, and he got all these books, all
- 37:20Speaker 1: these secret cool books, and now the book ban is lifted.
- 37:23Speaker 1: Your book rich What are you gonna do? Do people
- 37:26Speaker 1: still want books? I don't know. How do you move
- 37:29Speaker 1: all these books? You got like a hundred copies of
- 37:32Speaker 1: I don't know, you've got a hundred copies of the
- 37:34Speaker 1: New Testament in Lithuanian or in Latin or whatever. What
- 37:37Speaker 1: do you do? Well? Uh, you could open a bookshop. Hey,
- 37:41Speaker 1: that'd be cool. And not only would it just be
- 37:43Speaker 1: a bookshop, you know with all this inventory, I mean,
- 37:46Speaker 1: it's essentially an incredible foundation to start a long lasting
- 37:52Speaker 1: legacy historical bookshop, and this place exists. In nineteen o five,
- 37:57Speaker 1: right after the band was lifted, one of the bugglers,
- 38:00Speaker 1: a dude named Joossis massi ulis Um, opened such a
- 38:04Speaker 1: store in Ponnisis. And again apologies for butchering these pronunciations.
- 38:10Speaker 1: And it's still open today and it is actually part
- 38:13Speaker 1: of a chain of bookstores um that have since sprung
- 38:17Speaker 1: up in Lithuania under the same name. So in to
- 38:22Speaker 1: further honor the legacy of this period, statue was built
- 38:27Speaker 1: in the capital at the time was the capital of Kawanas,
- 38:31Speaker 1: and that was to commemorate the placard read the unknown
- 38:34Speaker 1: book Smuggler, more of like a symbolic thing to talk
- 38:37Speaker 1: about the people who we will never know their names
- 38:39Speaker 1: because we only really have a handful of figures because,
- 38:42Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, the record keeping was a little wonky.
- 38:44Speaker 1: So cool. So today in Lithuania, March sixteenth is the
- 38:49Speaker 1: birthday of Urgus bielinis Um and it is celebrated as
- 38:54Speaker 1: Kei Ignestio Dianna, which is translated to the day of
- 38:58Speaker 1: the book Smugglers or carriers, depending on um your preference. Um, yeah, um,
- 39:06Speaker 1: pretty big deal. Yeah, that's why we opened with this,
- 39:08Speaker 1: So a happy day of the book smugglers. Happy belated
- 39:12Speaker 1: KIGSI Dania to all who celebrate. I think I don't
- 39:16Speaker 1: know but you guys, but I'm celebrating this now. I
- 39:18Speaker 1: think saving things through the power of literacy is awesome.
- 39:22Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons that people like me end
- 39:25Speaker 1: up in things like podcasts. At this point, maybe we
- 39:28Speaker 1: give the last word to Jonas step Sish, who talked
- 39:32Speaker 1: about his father and his uncle as book smugglers. He
- 39:37Speaker 1: says smuggling is the reason, or one of the primary reasons,
- 39:40Speaker 1: Lithuania was able to regain independence when he writes, the
- 39:45Speaker 1: struggles of the book carriers have been praised in modern
- 39:48Speaker 1: times by people like father you Willonius Casperavicius, who said
- 39:52Speaker 1: the work of restoring Lithuania's independence began not in eight
- 39:56Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen, when it declared itself a state, but rather
- 40:00Speaker 1: the time of the book carriers, with bundles of books
- 40:02Speaker 1: and pamphlets on their backs. These warriors were the first
- 40:05Speaker 1: to start preparing the ground for independence, the first to
- 40:08Speaker 1: propagate the idea that it was imperative to throw off
- 40:11Speaker 1: the yoke of Russian oppression. So pretty cool. And also,
- 40:17Speaker 1: you know, kudos Tsarist Russia because there miscalculation about banning
- 40:22Speaker 1: a language in a very real way set the dominoes toppling, right,
- 40:27Speaker 1: That's what led to Lithuania's ultimate independence. I think it's
- 40:32Speaker 1: a cool lesson. I know we went a little bit
- 40:34Speaker 1: long on this one, but we hope you enjoyed it
- 40:37Speaker 1: as well, folks, and we can't wait to hear from you.
- 40:40Speaker 1: What are some other awesome acts of literacy as rebellion
- 40:45Speaker 1: or literacy as resistance? I would say the still yaga
- 40:49Speaker 1: are up there. Music literacy is the same as print literacy,
- 40:54Speaker 1: and there are a lot of examples about these. Can't
- 40:56Speaker 1: wait to hear about them. Yeah, you can hit us
- 40:58Speaker 1: up on the internet. Were ridiculous historians on Facebook. That's
- 41:03Speaker 1: the name of our Facebook group. A lot of good
- 41:04Speaker 1: meme activity and chatter there around the shows that we
- 41:08Speaker 1: do every week. You can also find Ben and I
- 41:11Speaker 1: as individual human people on the Internet. I am pretty
- 41:14Speaker 1: much exclusively on Instagram, where you can find me at
- 41:17Speaker 1: how now Noel Brown, Mr Boland about yourself? Well, Mr Brown,
- 41:21Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians, you can indeed find me on the internet.
- 41:26Speaker 1: The rumors are true. I've got a lot of exciting
- 41:29Speaker 1: stuff coming up that I can't yet announce on air,
- 41:31Speaker 1: But get in on the ground floor. Follow me at
- 41:34Speaker 1: ben Bowling b O W l I N on Instagram.
- 41:37Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter where I'm at
- 41:39Speaker 1: ben Bowling hs W. That's a great place to send
- 41:42Speaker 1: suggestions for episodes and questions. Great place to send terrible puns.
- 41:47Speaker 1: I love them. Hashtag no pun left behind bonus. If
- 41:50Speaker 1: you're on Twitter, you may also catch the one and
- 41:53Speaker 1: only Mr Max Williams. Yes it is I, Mr Max Williams.
- 41:58Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at at He'll underscore
- 42:00Speaker 1: Max Williams where you'll see all my fun interests and
- 42:04Speaker 1: stuff and Max may end up also throwing us for
- 42:07Speaker 1: a curl ball and then your future not a curveball.
- 42:11Speaker 1: That's no other spoilers, but it's curling reference right. No.
- 42:17Speaker 1: Spoiling was a big one with the smooth stone used
- 42:21Speaker 1: to move around ice thingies bucks. What do you call it?
- 42:25Speaker 1: MACI give us the skinny rocks. They are rocks, throwing rocks,
- 42:30Speaker 1: throwing rocks with Max Williams on the curling field of
- 42:35Speaker 1: play on the sheet of ice. Yeah, yes, the sheet
- 42:37Speaker 1: device of course, how could I be so foolish? Yes,
- 42:40Speaker 1: still brooms and there there are that didn't totally didn't
- 42:45Speaker 1: totally cripple the spoilers. So yeah, just stay tuned on that.
- 42:48Speaker 1: I'm sticking with the curlball thing. Yeah, thanks to Mr
- 42:51Speaker 1: Matt Williams. Thanks to Casey pegroove. I looked at my
- 42:53Speaker 1: old Casey on the case T shirt. Man, it's still
- 42:56Speaker 1: it's still a good idea classic shirt, classic Shure vintage
- 43:00Speaker 1: at this point. We'll see you next time, folks. For
- 43:10Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
- 43:13Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
- 43:15Speaker 1: favorite shows.